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Nice 'n shiny at last - Blue Dragonfly, ready for collection.

post-2679-084629100 1306505055_thumb.jpg

 

nice lines Andy! nothing very draggy looking going on there!

I'm so very glad our boats can be pretty light now.

I may have my Maas Canoe in Italy soon, on the Adriatic at first.

won't be making the worlds though.

 

cheers, Kenny

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Nice 'n shiny at last - Blue Dragonfly, ready for collection.

post-2679-084629100 1306505055_thumb.jpg

 

nice lines Andy! nothing very draggy looking going on there!

I'm so very glad our boats can be pretty light now.

I may have my Maas Canoe in Italy soon, on the Adriatic at first.

won't be making the worlds though.

 

cheers, Kenny

 

hey Chris, you may want to visit me in Italy for some two boat tuning, later on!

K

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Nice 'n shiny at last - Blue Dragonfly, ready for collection.

post-2679-084629100 1306505055_thumb.jpg

 

nice lines Andy! nothing very draggy looking going on there!

I'm so very glad our boats can be pretty light now.

 

 

This is Alistair's boat, to his design ( Not my lines )

 

Weighs in at 23.7kg - painted, inc carriage tracks, without fittings.

post-2679-080231000 1307005174_thumb.jpg

post-2679-027327500 1307005476_thumb.jpg

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Alistair has gone from one extreme to another. At McCrae he had the sharpest V shaped canoe in the fleet, now he has a flat bottom and tight bilges. It should float a lot higher with less wetted surface and plain easilly too, not that the Monkey was slow.

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Yes its a bit differant, found that Monkey was fine upwind and on a run but lost out on the reaches or in marginal planing conditions, hope the new hull has addressed this. Its now in the garden being fitted out, a little more to do on the seat and carrage, so I hope to be afloat by the end of June, just in time for the worlds, finger crossed nothing falls apart!

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How are the various new boats getting on with hitting the water? Or is it all top secret? Hopefully at least some of the new UK boats are doing Champs this weekend/next week, but I can't get there...

 

I've been stuffed for sailing time this year by problems unrelated to sailing, but my modified Nethercott is knocking up a few miles club racing... I think I overcooked the stern by making it too flat. It was a bigger challenge than I expected to just extend the lines to the broad stern, and I think I could have managed to build in a bit of turnup to the chines which would have meant that she digs the lee rail in less drastically when sailed heeled in light airs. The other thing that is really striking is how much extra freeboard is needed over the last couple of feet of hull to stop the water flowing over the deck rather than the sides. I guess less volume forward would change that but there was never any point in being that radical...

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John Ellis has a new rules boat heading to the UK champs, I hear also Steve has a new boat on the water. I look forward to seeing photos of both (or it didnt happen) my sources are very reliable..... Steve's boats sounds really hot upwind... Im still trying to get time to finish my new boat I just need to pull my finger out and paint the plank then its time to hit the water Ive been at that point for some weeks now....

 

 

 

How are the various new boats getting on with hitting the water? Or is it all top secret? Hopefully at least some of the new UK boats are doing Champs this weekend/next week, but I can't get there...

 

I've been stuffed for sailing time this year by problems unrelated to sailing, but my modified Nethercott is knocking up a few miles club racing... I think I overcooked the stern by making it too flat. It was a bigger challenge than I expected to just extend the lines to the broad stern, and I think I could have managed to build in a bit of turnup to the chines which would have meant that she digs the lee rail in less drastically when sailed heeled in light airs. The other thing that is really striking is how much extra freeboard is needed over the last couple of feet of hull to stop the water flowing over the deck rather than the sides. I guess less volume forward would change that but there was never any point in being that radical...

 

 

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US container is on it's way to Travemunde,

4 US Team boats are in and one Australian boat that is going to live in Germany.

Pictures of sailing didn't get taken.

I never was a show business kid.

We did get 6 boats on the water on Sunday and get some idea of how things stack up.

My guess is that Chris Maas is the class of the fleet, and that someone is going to have to come up with a pretty special regatta in order to beat him. Angel of Attack is really well sorted and certainly had our number every time we went sailing.

There are chinks of daylight, the plywood boats seem plenty fast upwind, but I don't think we get around the course with him.

Time will tell as we work them up, but all we can do now is think about it and hope they show up in Germany in one piece and on schedule.

SHC

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Using the mast as my starting point has proved a bit sticky as far as progress goes. Having a mast fabricated has imploded, so I'll be making my own mast, which is leading to a merry chase throughout the limbic system, but it hit me the other day "hey, I used to be a Finn Sailor!" (sand sand, spoke shave spoke shave, glue glue,) so I've been staring at my cello bow, but since I don't think Pernumbuco is in the cards, like my Bruders were, making a pest of myself at local lumber yards. :D Switching from unstayed to stayed, canting, rakish, have 3 different approaches for the sail as far as rule goes. Have decided glues, and a pile of xps and epp in the garage is growing. Using Titebond III on puzzle joint scarf is apparently problematic, so trying to see if a butt joint can be part of the structure/weight torsion box, which will dictate thickness of plywood overall. Although I am switching to shaping mode now which is cool, but a different type of hollow 'shaping'. Cool new high tech sawhorses have arrived, will create work table, and start ' mildly enhanced interrogation' of plywood. Ordering chinelog etc. material next week. Shape is pretty much set, seat will be ordered 2-3 weeks, summer is slipping away....

 

Hearing about a local beach cat tearing a daggerboard etc. on a rock at a local lake (think no marine maps of bottoms of these lakes) has me a bit freaked about a db again. Not much sailing around here, so not a lot of local knowledge about lake or river bottoms topography rocks etc..

 

So are you guys totally against a nice longitudinally rotating retractable popup leeboard? Would it help to think of it as a laterally displaced daggerboard? Centerboard? :)

 

Pretty please? I'll be very quiet.

 

I'l gol sit in the corner now........

 

Paul

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Dragonfly on the water last night for the first time in a nice force 2-3. She felt quite stable and was planning when it was blowing the 3, nose lifts very early and tacks well, but then she has a bit more rocker than some... no one to compare with so could be super quick or perhaps super slow, time will tell. Will post some photos if I can get some one to take some next time I am out. No major unforeseen problems, a bit of rope trimming to do that I will have time to fiddle with in Germany. Feeling a little calmer now its hit the water, couple of weeks ago I was really beginning to think that I was going to miss the worlds, but a few nights of working past mid night then getting up at 5 to carry on has progressed things well

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Is someone sailing Monkey at the Worlds?

How many new boats are coming from Blighty?

 

US box is away with 4 boats.

USA 240- Willy Clark, modified josie

USA 246- Chris Maas , Super String Theory with cool jib stick

USA 249- Steve Clark, pointy plywood design

USA 250- David Clark, even more pointy plywood design.

 

We got to do a bit of sailing before everything shipped. Chris is fast most the time. The rest of us have our moments.

 

SHC

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Is someone sailing Monkey at the Worlds?

How many new boats are coming from Blighty?

 

US box is away with 4 boats.

USA 240- Willy Clark, modified josie

USA 246- Chris Maas , Super String Theory with cool jib stick

USA 249- Steve Clark, pointy plywood design

USA 250- David Clark, even more pointy plywood design.

 

We got to do a bit of sailing before everything shipped. Chris is fast most the time. The rest of us have our moments.

 

SHC

 

Hi Steve,

 

I will be sailing Monkey at the worlds. She is mostly as she was last time although she will be sporting a new set of Ullman Sails.

post-28852-007712200 1309450171_thumb.jpg

 

 

Chris Hampe

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Coming to the worlds in new design IC I think we have:

Chris Hampe is in Monkey,

Jon Ellis has built one to his own design, not seen finished photos but early ones looked very narrow and fast,

Phil Robin is in Scarlet, he now has this well sorted,

Colin Brown has finished off a morrison hull (so will be similar to Scarlet). and

Myself in Dragonfly

 

There are a couple of others but I am not sure if they will be finished, Steve Clark(UK) has built a Morrison 2 hull and is very nearly finished , Allen Powell's son has his boat but I am not sure what state this is in and Ian Mcferson has a ply boat but again not sure if this boat is on the water yet.

 

I will be taking the ferry from Harwich to hook of holland overnight on the Wednesday so will be in Travemunde Thursday evening, not too far for me really, about a 6-7 hr drive from Hook to Trav (according to google maps) and only about 1.5 hrs this side

 

looking forward to seeing you all there

 

Alistair

ps the Nethercott's are still very competitive in lighter winds so don't over look Mark and Simon!!

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That great news its looks like the new rules boats are starting to gain some momentum in the UK I guess we had to be patient and give people time to design and build their boats, in some case's I believe its been a first time build. Now for the new boats to get some time on the water and sorted out as well as the sailor getting use to their new ride... all takes time. wish I could make it to Germany this year.... Ive already started saving for San Francisco in three years :) look forward to my first new rules IC worlds which will be at the same place as my first IC Worlds....

Coming to the worlds in new design IC I think we have:

Chris Hampe is in Monkey,

Jon Ellis has built one to his own design, not seen finished photos but early ones looked very narrow and fast,

Phil Robin is in Scarlet, he now has this well sorted,

Colin Brown has finished off a morrison hull (so will be similar to Scarlet). and

Myself in Dragonfly

 

There are a couple of others but I am not sure if they will be finished, Steve Clark(UK) has built a Morrison 2 hull and is very nearly finished , Allen Powell's son has his boat but I am not sure what state this is in and Ian Mcferson has a ply boat but again not sure if this boat is on the water yet.

 

I will be taking the ferry from Harwich to hook of holland overnight on the Wednesday so will be in Travemunde Thursday evening, not too far for me really, about a 6-7 hr drive from Hook to Trav (according to google maps) and only about 1.5 hrs this side

 

looking forward to seeing you all there

 

Alistair

ps the Nethercott's are still very competitive in lighter winds so don't over look Mark and Simon!!

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Is someone sailing Monkey at the Worlds?

How many new boats are coming from Blighty?

 

US box is away with 4 boats.

USA 240- Willy Clark, modified josie

USA 246- Chris Maas , Super String Theory with cool jib stick

USA 249- Steve Clark, pointy plywood design

USA 250- David Clark, even more pointy plywood design.

 

We got to do a bit of sailing before everything shipped. Chris is fast most the time. The rest of us have our moments.

 

SHC

 

Hi Steve,

 

I will be sailing Monkey at the worlds. She is mostly as she was last time although she will be sporting a new set of Ullman Sails.

post-28852-007712200 1309450171_thumb.jpg

 

 

Chris Hampe

Hi Chris ,

hope Monkey behaving her self, new sails look good, will be intresting to compare Monkey and Dragonfly as I never had them side by side , but sailing Dragonfly she feels very similar to Monkey, just the nose lifts a bit more. Let me know if there is any info you need on her

Alistair

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Is someone sailing Monkey at the Worlds?

How many new boats are coming from Blighty?

 

US box is away with 4 boats.

USA 240- Willy Clark, modified josie

USA 246- Chris Maas , Super String Theory with cool jib stick

USA 249- Steve Clark, pointy plywood design

USA 250- David Clark, even more pointy plywood design.

 

We got to do a bit of sailing before everything shipped. Chris is fast most the time. The rest of us have our moments.

 

SHC

 

Hi Steve,

 

I will be sailing Monkey at the worlds. She is mostly as she was last time although she will be sporting a new set of Ullman Sails.

post-28852-007712200 1309450171_thumb.jpg

 

 

Chris Hampe

Hi Chris ,

hope Monkey behaving her self, new sails look good, will be intresting to compare Monkey and Dragonfly as I never had them side by side , but sailing Dragonfly she feels very similar to Monkey, just the nose lifts a bit more. Let me know if there is any info you need on her

Alistair

 

Additionally there will be me on GER 78 (Steve Clark Build Plywood), Peter Ullmann on GER 79 (Chris Maas Build), Stuart Brown on String Theory for Australia and more than a dozen other Germans on ODs, some with well known potential in light air.

Hopefully Peter and i can leverage the fact that we had more than just a few rides on our new design boats ....

 

Roger

IC GER 78

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Monkey is currently in my shed with a few minor repairs and one last attempt at finding a small leak that seams to suck in a little water in windy weather. I should be back on the water Sunday or Monday, then it will be sailing at least every other day until I head out to Travemunde a week before the regatta starts for final training at the venue.

 

Meanwhile I found the entry lists on the Travemunde website, although they have mixed AC's in with IC's.

 

IC / AC

ICOD

So we have 33 boats from 5 nations, 7 AC's 14 ICOD's and 12 New rules IC.

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Monkey is currently in my shed with a few minor repairs and one last attempt at finding a small leak that seams to suck in a little water in windy weather. I should be back on the water Sunday or Monday, then it will be sailing at least every other day until I head out to Travemunde a week before the regatta starts for final training at the venue.

 

Meanwhile I found the entry lists on the Travemunde website, although they have mixed AC's in with IC's.

 

IC / AC

ICOD

So we have 33 boats from 5 nations, 7 AC's 14 ICOD's and 12 New rules IC.

Blimey, training? I've been out twice, ripped my sail and put a nice dent in the boat so far, but the boat goes well against the local competetion

post-20243-025156300 1310541495_thumb.jpg

but no idea about speed against other canoes

Daggerboard very wobbly so are making a new one, skins done last night, trim tonight then bond Thursday

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So, I think that makes the top ten boats at the worlds:-

 

1. Chris Maas, Maas (mk2) design, Maas built, carbon/foam?

2. Peter Ullman, Maas design (which one?), Maas built carbon/foam?

3. Alistair Warren, Warren Mk2 (Dragonfly), Bloodaxe shell completed Warren, carbon/foam

4. David Clark, Clark design (which one?), Clark built? carbon/ply??

5. Phil Robin, Morrison mk1, Bloodaxe, carbon/foam

6. Willy Clark, Clark design: modified Josie, Clark, ?carbon/foam??

7. Chris Hampe, Warren Mk1 (Monkey) mod with sloop rig, Warren built, ? carbon foam?

8. Steve Clark, Clark design (which one?), Clark built? carbon/ply??

9. Simon Allen, Nethercott OD, Razorback?, carbon foam?

10. Mark Goodchild, Nethercott OD, Razorback/Goodchild, carbon foam/ply decks?

 

please correct and elaborate...

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Sailed Dad's boat for the first time today in a solid 15 knots. Feels like an absolute rocket ship.

 

Super excited to build one.

 

Watch out for me in Richmond. I have not finished soaring.

 

Willy

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you are the youth of today. I have no doubt you will be kickin it for some time to come!

glad the new boat is fast. more than one way to skin a cat...

cheers, Kenny

Sailed Dad's boat for the first time today in a solid 15 knots. Feels like an absolute rocket ship.

 

Super excited to build one.

 

Watch out for me in Richmond. I have not finished soaring.

 

Willy

 

 

 

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Chris or anyone in the know,

 

How did the fancy jib boom thingy perform at the worlds? Did it tip the balance between victory or defeat? Do we all have to get one?

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Every time I was near Chris at the start of a run or reach he pulled away, I am fairly sure this was helped by the new jib boom thing. How much better than a standard jib boom as I had on Monkey or a dangly jib stick like Steve had in Oz I'm not sure. I did not have enough time before the event to make one for dragonfly, but I will have one similar to that on Monkey when I get some work shop time. I suspect that it will not be quite as effective as Chris's set up but it is a lot simpler to use and make. However generally speaking Chris is just plain fast and makes very few mistakes so singling out the jib boom as a must have is prob over simplifying things.

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Its taken forever but finally AUS40 (still need new sail numbers) has hit the water, feel great to sail few changes I made seem to work. The best thing is getting rid of the swing up rudder system and opting for a standard IC system has made launching and retrieving the boat so much easier and it look much neater also.post-21278-057770200 1313965049_thumb.jpg

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More photos to come as I get them....

The beach is at Albury Wodonga Yacht Club on Lake Hume, this is home for me

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Hi Hayden

Looks great, shame you could not make Germany with her, I only made germany because its so close so I know whats its like. San Fran should be a good event so look forward to racing against you there. Should be a bit more practiced by then. Getting the sails re-cut at the moment, the new sails were good in a light wind but a real pain in a blow, too full, they poped me in the drink in a tack (not helped by no practice). Whats the under water shape like? Dragonfly has ended up fairly non-extreme but has loads of lift and seems to work well in the light stuff, heavy weather performance has to wait untill I have a bit more time in the water and got the sails right. I have .stp files of dragonfly and monkey if its of any interest (not quite as built as corners rounded) but a good representation.

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More photos to come as I get them....

The beach is at Albury Wodonga Yacht Club on Lake Hume, this is home for me

Water level is a lot better

SHC

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Roger,

My email address for you doesn't work.

Send me a message with your current address.

I have some thoughts on building to share.

SHC

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For everyone in the NE near the storm surge, good luck-

 

P

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For Jim C. Here are a couple of pictures of the halyard lock I use. They used to be commercially available but I can't find them anymore. It's not too difficult to make and they are rock solid and almost fool proof. I bolt it on but mainly it's held on with a few wraps of carbon tow.

 

It's got that clever wire bail that disengages the halyard when it is hoisted an inch or so past locked. Makes a very satisfying "click."

 

Maybe you can find them in the land of dinghy sailing.

post-16686-013752600 1314671412_thumb.jpg

post-16686-044541900 1314671797_thumb.jpg

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Jim, here are a couple of more pictures of that halyard lock. With luck you will make out the wire bail gizmo that pivots to make a ramp that releases the nico stopper sleeve. And yes, that dyneema halyard tail enters the mast about 100mm below the lock. The halyard runs in the groove of the lock of course. It's just been pulled out for the picture so you could see what's going on.

post-16686-058534200 1314756706_thumb.jpg

post-16686-033549900 1314756722_thumb.jpg

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Jim, here are a couple of more pictures of that halyard lock. With luck you will make out the wire bail gizmo that pivots to make a ramp that releases the nico stopper sleeve. And yes, that dyneema halyard tail enters the mast about 100mm below the lock. The halyard runs in the groove of the lock of course. It's just been pulled out for the picture so you could see what's going on.

 

Is the wire bail spring-loaded so it snaps open and closed?

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Ah, gotcha. So the main has to be able to be pulled a couple of inches above the lock then to trip the bail. Thanks, that's good.

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Chris

You were asking about the tubes and the material I have used to make the mould, try this

http://www.aerovac.com/files/catalog/21_FF03PM.pdf

it might not be exactly what I use as I got it from a local composites shop that "acquired" it from some where, they do similar cloths that are not permiable, so you want the porous type, but how porous I am not sure. You should be able to get it in the states, Aerovac operate there.

post-20243-058806800 1314794122_thumb.jpg

post-20243-014164000 1314794100_thumb.jpg

the tubes do not quite come out round and prob max presure you should use in the tube is 14psi

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Kind of basic questions, but if anyone knows, I have spent HOURS looking at the internets and cannot figure this out-

 

Does urethane stick to Titebond 3?

 

Does urethane stick to Liquid Nails?

 

Does Liquid Nails stick to Titebond 3?

 

Does urethane melt polystyrene?

 

By urethane, I mean sealers or finish products.

 

I am going to run some tests, but that won't tell me anything medium or long term.

 

 

P

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Does urethane melt polystyrene?

At least some polyurethane paints contain solvents that attack polystyrene. No experience of the other things you mention.

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I was trying to find the United States IC website but failed. Could someone in the know please tell me who the committee is and how to make contact. Many thanks.

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Pm sent :)

 

I was trying to find the United States IC website but failed. Could someone in the know please tell me who the committee is and how to make contact. Many thanks.

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Some where in this thread we talked about water flow at the stern and rooster tails etc...

 

I had a suspicion then it was because of my crap design for my hinged rudder system.. after this weekend Im positive that was the case, new boat same rudder position a little further forward in the boat (about 50mm). Now that I have a working rudder system that's easy to get in and out of the boat and in turn fits to the underside of the hull much better (still not perfect) the rooster tail in gone.....

 

Yeah for the conventional IC rudder cassette system.....

 

ICU2

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The rooster tail is clearly faster Hayden. I hope you can figure out how to get it back before Richmond. Didn't you put playing cards on your bike spokes way back when? Faster bike right? Same thing with the rooster tail.

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This one has been dubbed "Gaigen."

Nipponese for "Alien."

Based on the last two enhanced interrogation ply models with most of the odd ball stuff weeded out.

 

post-738-032571900 1323720460_thumb.jpg

From Below:

post-738-053404600 1323720356_thumb.jpg

Perspective views

post-738-097476900 1323720395_thumb.jpg

post-738-069629900 1323720333_thumb.jpg

 

Plan is to offer as plans, jig and part files. Will enable construction in plywood, strip plank or foam and composite.

Let me know.

San Francisco awaits!

SHC

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Nice! I like it.

 

Got those chines way up out of the way forward. A fair bit of rocker forward too which seemed to work well on David Clark's super fine bow version.

 

We're working on a carbon/foam building method here right now that looks really promising. Your design and jigs should be perfect for it.

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Anybody want a deal on some 1.5mm Marine ply from Boulter that I initially bought to make a stressed ply moth but didn't use? It's still in the box collecting dust.

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how much for the plans, jig and part files? what would the estimated cost of a hull & seat be? The design looks good. Do you have a recommended layup schedule?

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Hi all

 

I'm trying something new for steering MCR. It's a carriage mounted tiller that drives the rudder by lines running to the back. The old tiller is still attached 'till I get used to the new system then it's coming off. The tiller extensions aren't fitted but I'll probably go for twin sticks to either side. The lines continue to the front of the cockpit so you can slide the carriage front and back without altering the lines. The tiller pivots at the left hand side of the photo, down low near the pulleys.

 

post-26260-067793100 1324092215_thumb.jpg

 

I did this because my rudder is probably 2' further back than most and I had two issues. First, after a capsize, the extension would wash backwards to leeward and retrieving it normally meant more capsizes. Secondly, because the rudder was so far back, in light air the angle from the front of the cockpit to the tiller was too shallow for comfortable steering.

 

Mounting it on the carriage means a constant angle to the tiller whether carriage forward or back. After a capsize the extension will be lying nicely across the cockpit and easily to hand. I'm not sure if anyone else has done something like this so looking forward to constructive criticism. :unsure:

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Hi all

 

I'm trying something new for steering MCR. It's a carriage mounted tiller that drives the rudder by lines running to the back. The old tiller is still attached 'till I get used to the new system then it's coming off. The tiller extensions aren't fitted but I'll probably go for twin sticks to either side. The lines continue to the front of the cockpit so you can slide the carriage front and back without altering the lines. The tiller pivots at the left hand side of the photo, down low near the pulleys.

 

post-26260-067793100 1324092215_thumb.jpg

 

I did this because my rudder is probably 2' further back than most and I had two issues. First, after a capsize, the extension would wash backwards to leeward and retrieving it normally meant more capsizes. Secondly, because the rudder was so far back, in light air the angle from the front of the cockpit to the tiller was too shallow for comfortable steering.

 

Mounting it on the carriage means a constant angle to the tiller whether carriage forward or back. After a capsize the extension will be lying nicely across the cockpit and easily to hand. I'm not sure if anyone else has done something like this so looking forward to constructive criticism. :unsure:

 

Damn, that's clever.

 

It can't possibly work. But if it does I wonder if getting on and off the seat might be awkward. How about having the tiller come out of the front of the carriage? Steer with your forward hand.

 

I'm not joking.

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I did consider out the front but it meant that the steering was backwards. With it coming out the back you use the same actions (helm down to steer up and visa versa). I could possibly re-jig the rope layout to run it out the front if it's an issue.

 

<edit> Actually, I just thought about it and it doesn't make a difference front or back. Oh, well, back is more natural feeling

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Jethrow,

 

Can you still move your carriage fore and aft? My idea was to mount the tiller post on the deck forward near the centreboard case with the tiller facing aft. In this case when the carriage is right forward the tiller would be over the top of the carriage. This would make the linkage to the rudder easy and would not hinder the carriage movement.

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Hi Mal

 

Yes, the carriage is still fully movable. As the line is basically continuous through the Carriage, as you slide it the line just moves through the system, it's only when you move the tiller that it created a differential and the rudder moves.

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I've wondered about having some kind of ramp arrangement behind the tiller extension so a dropped tiller extension tends to be kept forward. I keep seeing it as likley to end up in broken extensions though... I do seem to fall off the boat in such bizarre ways...

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Geoff,

If the problem is only the issue of the extension going down between the tiller and the lee side of the boat, hence preventing the tiller centreing, and preventing you getting to leeward to retrieve it? then I did end up rather simpler solution on the Log. (deemed serious consideration after spending 10 miutes of serial swimming at the last mark of the Toukley nationals)

I used my moth type extension universal: A 300mm length of mainsheet inserted one end into the end of the extension and the other end into the end of the tiller, all with appropriate bushes,and with only enough rope in the gap to allow for needed flexibility. The extension then can never go down the wrong side of the tiller because its always at the front. If it goes into the water the tiller can always centre itself as the extension simply rolls out to leeward. Its also much cheaper than the propriety fittings.

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Only having sailed these lovely rockets for a little while,my 2c; Self centering rudder helps bunches, and super light, water tight tiller ext also most good, see my tiller ext blog. Don't know how one could sail without self centering, have it on all my toys.

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I found the best solution which is the simplest of the lot is "don't swim"... seriously I have found if the extension can float this usually isn't an issue combined with a self centring system aka a length of shock cord from the end of the tiller (not the extension) to a fixed point in centre of the boat with enough length to get the travel you need and still centre the tiller. Phil's idea sounds good also.

 

The carriage mounted tiller looks interesting and clever but I don't know that the benefits will out way the clutter on the busiest part dance floor, time will tell.

 

ICU2

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Another possible advantage of a forward tiller is that as you tack you have both the mainsheet and the tiller in front of you. Intuitively this might make tacking a bit easier although it remains to be seen how it would pan out in reality.

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Hi Mal

 

Yes, the carriage is still fully movable. As the line is basically continuous through the Carriage, as you slide it the line just moves through the system, it's only when you move the tiller that it created a differential and the rudder moves.

 

That's clever. I'll be interested to see how it goes with friction etc, but theoretically it should work fine.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like your lines are led to the back of the rudder casing. While this works in theory, I'm thinking that the angle the lines are pulling at isn't optimal which is just going to make it harder to move the tiller/rudder. I've seen equivalent systems in boats for disabled sailors, and the lines at the stern are always attached to the tiller (means that the lines are pulling at ~90° to the tiller as opposed to ~45° to the back of the rudder casing). In the case of those boats, the "tiller" is hinged in the middle with the lines attached to the bottom/rear end and the user manipulating the upper/forward end.

 

I know it would take an interesting hinge system, but it would at once help with the force required to steer and moving the tiller forward (was mentioned earlier)... Of course, if you drew it out and thought it through, I'm sure there's a way to design it so the "tiller" comes out the aft side of the seat, the lines attach to the original tiller, and the steering directions don't get reversed...

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Geoff,

If the problem is only the issue of the extension going down between the tiller and the lee side of the boat, hence preventing the tiller centreing, and preventing you getting to leeward to retrieve it? then I did end up rather simpler solution on the Log. (deemed serious consideration after spending 10 miutes of serial swimming at the last mark of the Toukley nationals)

I used my moth type extension universal: A 300mm length of mainsheet inserted one end into the end of the extension and the other end into the end of the tiller, all with appropriate bushes,and with only enough rope in the gap to allow for needed flexibility. The extension then can never go down the wrong side of the tiller because its always at the front. If it goes into the water the tiller can always centre itself as the extension simply rolls out to leeward. Its also much cheaper than the propriety fittings.

 

Phil, does the mainsheet as universal joint have enough torsional stiffness to work for a Moth-style screw adjustment for the rudder horizontal AOA?

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Hi Rhet, yes attached to the back edge of the rudder case. This was done so as to be an easily reversed retrofit in case it doesn't work. It is such a lightly loaded rudder that I went for the simpler version (if you could call it that). The leverage is the same as the normal tiller as the shorter lever arm at the back is matched with the same short discance on the new tiller and the ratio between the pulley placement and the tiller head gives you the leverage. The biggest headache was moving all the blocks around so the lines stayed the same length through all their travel.

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I did something similar with the tiller pivot forward in the boat, and transom-hung rudder. ( at the very pointy aft end of the boat)

A rod linkage on one side.

The idea was to disconnect the sheeting from the carriage to make it move more easily.

Mainsheet was on a bridle aft, with ratchet / centre sheeting off the boom.

So the tiller needed to be forward to allow enough angle for steering inside the bridle.

Twin tiller extensions, with bungee to the shrouds, so the other extn was always on the seat ready on the other side, and not sticking out.

It all worked fairly well, until I got fed up with the downwind stuff ( and put a kite + wings etc on the boat )

post-2679-086694500 1324248223_thumb.jpg

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Phil, does the mainsheet as universal joint have enough torsional stiffness to work for a Moth-style screw adjustment for the rudder horizontal AOA?

Yes but I make it thicker by adding a third ply, stip a piece of sheet and insert an extra core through centre.

 

Back to geoff's remote tiller idea. I once tried a rope linkage between an aft and a forward rudder (both with foils, and no centreboard). It did not work freely enough, but it was very interesting when they both stuck off centre and the boat proceeded with 20degrees of yaw.

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Just put dual carbon wheels on it and call it a day :)

 

Got a foily moth now instead. - fun all ways - upwind, downwind, sideways, up in the air, deep diving...

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Fixture design for Gaijin IC.

Hull

post-738-087769200 1325101192_thumb.jpg

10mm ( aka 3/8" ply wood) lots of stations to assure correct shape without wobblies.

Lots of holes to provide access for wiring sheet goods in place, and keep weight down.

post-738-037376800 1325101266_thumb.jpg

Flange is lofted to accept deck panels

post-738-039141500 1325101290_thumb.jpg

 

But wait there's more!

Foredeck fixture

post-738-058757100 1325101221_thumb.jpg

 

Everything else is made out of flat panels.

Step right up.

 

Eli should be cutting it soon, I don't know how much it will cost, probably not cheap.

But it will assure that multiple boats can be built that look pretty much the same.

SHC

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Hi Steve are you nailing ply into that jig or just pushing it in and taping it? And where are the panel files for the boat if so? Maybe I missed the part where you cedar strip and glass it into a vacuum tool? Looking nice though, Karl

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Hi Steve are you nailing ply into that jig or just pushing it in and taping it? And where are the panel files for the boat if so? Maybe I missed the part where you cedar strip and glass it into a vacuum tool? Looking nice though, Karl

The plan is to start with a computer projected cut sheet that will allow us to distort sheet foam into the jig. We will laminate the inside skin, install trunks, bulkheads etc and deck. Then we will pull it out of the jig and laminate the outside hull skin.

One could probably distort plywood into this jig and this build wood boats. You could also strip plank with either light wood or foam if that was more your style. Trying to enable as many ways of doing it as possible.

 

Not sure about pulling a vacuum on 1/4" foam. So I'm thinking the inside skin is just wet layup with peel ply. Probably can bag the outside skin. But the amount of laminate just isn't that big, so the difference is pretty minor.

 

SHC

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Oh. I think thats what those A-cat dudes in Michigan do, right? Sounds like a good way to go.

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397201_262703477116004_100001290620607_615442_87191535_n.jpgThis is a pic of a mates canoe here i393508_262229773830041_100001290620607_613748_775870787_n.jpgn Airlie.He doesn't know much about it but believes it has been modified.Still loks like a great ride.

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This is a one of a kind boat tat once started life as and International Canoe, the hiking plank dropped for wings and I believe about an extra metre or so added to the mast as well as the kite. The few times I've sailed against it up wind well off the pace as the extra weight and drag slow it down significantly compared to a nethercott and lacked height also. Downhill the big kite works but not enough around the cans to be worth while... But a good joy boat to have so great downhill slides on I suspect... The new rules minimalist approach so far appears the way to go in Canoe's Steve and others did a good job creating the current rules...

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This is a one of a kind boat tat once started life as and International Canoe, the hiking plank dropped for wings and I believe about an extra metre or so added to the mast as well as the kite. The few times I've sailed against it up wind well off the pace as the extra weight and drag slow it down significantly compared to a nethercott and lacked height also. Downhill the big kite works but not enough around the cans to be worth while... But a good joy boat to have so great downhill slides on I suspect... The new rules minimalist approach so far appears the way to go in Canoe's Steve and others did a good job creating the current rules...

 

Cheers mate shits and giggles it is.No one else to play with anyway.

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We've been working on a method for the home builder to build a carbon/foam IC using really simple tooling.

 

The goal is to build a light, stiff boat to any one of the fastest designs without the use of a solid mold.

post-16686-097885300 1325439904_thumb.jpg

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Briefly, the method involves laying up carbon/foam panels on a smooth table. The side panels are skinned with carbon cloth on both side. The bottom panels are only skinned on one side.

 

Like a female mold, the table gives the panels a smooth, fair surface on one side. This side is the outer surface of the boat.

post-16686-086560300 1325440910_thumb.jpg

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The jig is reconfigured and the hull is pushed into it.

 

The inside of the bottom panels is now covered with a layer of carbon cloth.

 

The foredeck and dancefloor are built in a similar fashion. Maybe the seat too.

 

This model is 1/4 scale. We haven't built a full scale boat. I'm reasonably confident the method will scale up nicely but there are always surprises when you take an idea into the real world.

 

I think this could also be a slick way to build Moths, A-cats and maybe I-14s, though 14's may have too much shape. What really surprised and pleased me was that I could push the shape into any reasonable configuration - more rocker, finer bow, rounder sections, whatever.

post-16686-039595400 1325441900_thumb.jpg

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The jig is reconfigured and the hull is pushed into it.

 

The inside of the bottom panels is now covered with a layer of carbon cloth.

 

The foredeck and dancefloor are built in a similar fashion. Maybe the seat too.

 

This model is 1/4 scale. We haven't built a full scale boat. I'm reasonably confident the method will scale up nicely but there are always surprises when you take an idea into the real world.

 

I think this could also be a slick way to build Moths, A-cats and maybe I-14s, though 14's may have too much shape. What really surprised and pleased me was that I could push the shape into any reasonable configuration - more rocker, finer bow, rounder sections, whatever.

 

Good work, certainly appears logical. Keep us updated on how the real world fares with this :blink:

 

Happy sailing,

 

Fish :)

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Chris,

 

That looks awesome...I'd be interested in either a Moth or A Cat version of this build technique.

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I'm not sure I'll take this project any farther. I mean, I already have an IC mold. Mainly I wanted to prove what I think is a really cool idea. Jake (he built the model above) may build a Moth this way.

 

I guess I'm hoping someone will pick up the idea from this point and turn it into a boat. I'm happy to help out with advice and maybe with building panels.

 

One thought I had was that the panels could be built on a 10' long table, rather than full length. It's no big deal to join the panels together full length.

 

If there's enough interest I could see making some kits that could be shipped cheaply in a box. It always a question of how much time and money I'm willing to lose on these propositions. Good thing my profession is also my hobby.