DC Designs

[fdsailor 0]

Wee bump here. How on earth this has ended up on the 2nd page when that daft MX thing is on the first I'll never know. Any of you Europeans coming up here for the Euros? Any from across the Atlantic? And what's new with the boats? Is yours one of the kit ones Ian? I might try to get down and take some video footage of the event.

[arnestahl 0]

We will come with one AC and two IC onedesign from Germany

too much work for finishing my new IC in time for the Euro Cup

[Harnser 4]

Hi Arne

Shame no new rules boats, was really looking forward to racing against your new design, it will be the only event I make this year so I hope the weather behaves its self and we get some good racing in. I had/ have plans to make a jib boom, new mast, rudder and daggerboard, oh and new sails to fit the new mast, but as ever work gets in the way of fun stuff, but having moved last year I can now see half of the floor in my garage, having filled it full twice from storage at least it's progress, can not start any projects until the floor is clear. Any one want a wood lathe?

[Amati 1,413]

The way things are coming in (foils, sail, mast, boom..): May

 

I hope Greenough might be (maybe?) mildly amused. Or maybe Jim Drake?

And now knee surgery. Both. Garghhhh.....

 

I'll have time to take some pics of the build to now in a fortnight. I'll know time line in a few days.....

 

6 weeks maybe until I'm 100%. I hope.

 

Blast.

[wee mcp 1]

Wee bump here. How on earth this has ended up on the 2nd page when that daft MX thing is on the first I'll never know. Any of you Europeans coming up here for the Euros? Any from across the Atlantic? And what's new with the boats? Is yours one of the kit ones Ian? I might try to get down and take some video footage of the event.

Hi, My current IC ic a One design, Vanilla flavoured, job. Australian built and possible the last Nethercott to be registered in the UK. I have a developed ply new rules boat in build but for a number of reasons no progess for about 18 months, I think I might offer it on to someone with more time and energy sadly.

 

Ian McP

[F15 AUS 4]

Bump to get it off the bottom of the first page

[Lifesave 48]

Any charter boats available for the Euro's in Scotland. Would love to come over and play. AC preferred. thanks DG

[JimC 671]

Suggest you post on IC forum...

[Andy P 23]

At last Colin's boat is done and has been sailing!

 

IC 'Dragonfly' design by Alistair Warren, for Colin Newman - his 70th birthday present to himself!

 

Many ( many ) build pics here : http://www.flickr.com/photos/98318634@N03/sets/72157634489644791/

 

And now... on with the next one!

[Phil S 159]

Well done Andy and Colin,

Did it make min weight or does the huge amount of chandlery prevent that?

[Andy P 23]

0.75kg lead added... but I forgot the extension, so there's a little bit of lead to be taken out when it gets measured.

[Willy Clark 45]

Went for a sail with David and Costello in heavy air yesterday. David is going basically dead downwind (or at least on deep broad reaches) from the end of his seat. It's f---ing terrifying.

 

Best,

Willy

[Ncik 154]

Went for a sail with David and Costello in heavy air yesterday. David is going basically dead downwind (or at least on deep broad reaches) from the end of his seat. It's f---ing terrifying.

 

Best,

Willy

 

Any chance of getting video of that?

[Amati 1,413]

Let's see, wild thing, insane thing, uh, daft thing????

[Amati 1,413]

At last Colin's boat is done and has been sailing!

 

IC 'Dragonfly' design by Alistair Warren, for Colin Newman - his 70th birthday present to himself!

 

Many ( many ) build pics here : http://www.flickr.com/photos/98318634@N03/sets/72157634489644791/Pict0633.jpgPict0632.jpgDSCF7094.jpg

 

And now... on with the next one!

 

[Phil S 159]

Went for a sail with David and Costello in heavy air yesterday. David is going basically dead downwind (or at least on deep broad reaches) from the end of his seat. It's f---ing terrifying.

 

Best,

Willy

This was what Steve was hoping for when he developped the new rules. Glad to see it happenning after only a few years of development.

Should be an awesome ride.

[TalonF4U 28]

Bummed I won't be able to make Sugar Island, but looking forward to hearing about it here...

[RogerIC 0]

 

Went for a sail with David and Costello in heavy air yesterday. David is going basically dead downwind (or at least on deep broad reaches) from the end of his seat. It's f---ing terrifying.

 

Best,

Willy

This was what Steve was hoping for when he developped the new rules. Glad to see it happenning after only a few years of development.

Should be an awesome ride.

 

The other hope was bringing the numbers up.

At least in Germany this works too - we have 18 entries for the nationals end of july (more then ever). Lots of young people in the available One Desings and 7 female sailors proove that IC sailing hasn't to be a sport for middle aged wealthy man....

 

Additonally there are about 7 new rules boats in different built phases which will give another boost when they are on the water.

The fears of a possible frustration of OD sailors turned into the different as more competetive and relatively cheap ODs are available and form a competetive field on their own. And most of them are keen on upgrading some day on a new rules boat.

[jwlbrace 0]

to the untrained eye it looks just like the last one... orange, complicated and a bit like a Vampire Weekend album, grows on you.

 

Hopefully I'll get some eyes on tonight at Draycote, there's a nice wind blowing, it's sunny and I'm 30 minutes away from shutting down my computer....

[jwlbrace 0]

it looked stunning on the water last night Andy... Colin looked like he was enjoying himself getting to grips with it.

 

I definitely looked looser and more sprightly than the last orange canoe, from what I can tell anyway from the sheltered cover of a Solo at 4 knots.

[JimC 671]

Dinghy Park Shots from Loch Lomond (IC Europa Cup 2013)

 

 

Like an idiot I failed to make notes of which boat was which, but you can work many of them out. Exciting times, different boats all over the place. Lots of new boats of different shapes. Even when hulls were the same the decks weren't, so it could be hard to tell which was which with varying topside heights amongst Morrisons and that sort of thing. No Maas design present unfortunately. I think the winner was a Morrison with very heavily reduced topsides, to my eyes way better than the original layout, 2nd was a Dragonfly.

[Dave Clark 566]

I'll try to get video evidence of wild style downwind the next time it blows like all hell out on the bay. As of yet I need varsity breeze to work the apparent wind around properly. It's downright terrifying when it works. It felt a lot like punching it off the wind back when I sailed Vectors, only I didn't need to dick about with hoisting anything. I've been buried in the final stages of building a new IC recently (launch pics soon) but I'll do what I can about finding the time to share. Also, Endgame looks amazing.

DRC

[JimC 671]

 

Also, Endgame looks amazing.

 

The dinghy park at Loch Lomond was kinda the boat porn equivalent of one of those discreet little shops in Soho.

 

There were any number of boats of stunning finish and build quality. I would have hated to have had to judge a concours competition. I should have done a lot more photography, but I was a bit preoccupied with trying to work out why I was putting up such an appalling performance on the water.

 

News of you getting the wild thing working is really great, I'd love for the whole class to want to ditch the extra flappy thing. We'll need to come down the wind range, but thrilled that's its starting at all.

[Dave Clark 566]

Update on the quest for the wild thing: I took the boat out in acceptable breeze the other day, baseline of about 12 knots, with the velocitek recording throughout. It looks like what I refer to as "stock car mode" (Where there's enough breeze that you don't leave the seat and barely change tuning when you round a mark) is more apropos than I thought. Speed upwind was 10 knots, touching 11, seeing 12 in a big puff upwind, tacking through 100 degrees. Downwind, pretty much the exact same thing. On the seat, moving between hiking off the end and just inboard of that, gybing through 100 degrees going 10+ knots pretty much constantly. Very fun and that's with burnt out sails and sleazily maintained foils. I'd like to see the numbers for a proper blow, but it looks like that's not coming any time soon.

DRC

[Tornadosail2012 3]

Bump

[Harnser 4]

Some kind person crashed through the dinghy park fence and ran over my mast. I will get this one repaired with a new top section, but its got me thinking, what dia and what carbon should i use for a new one. I have access to a wide range of carbon UD prepreg, T1000, T700, M46J, M40J. Its all a bit out of date but then thats why its avalable. What would be the best fibre type, would M46J be too brittle ( we have a good amount of this with 977 cycom resin)? I think we have some M55j as well but that I am sure is too brittle, I would not be confident even to laminate it with out damaging it.... Dia would follow fibre type to some extent but I am thinking 50mm OD would be good. Current mast is a superspars 5520, so 55mm OD 2mm wall thickness, I am farily sure the fibre type will be T700 or similar. Any advise would be greatfully received.

[Steve Clark 780]

I hate it when that happens, but designing a new mast with those flavors of carbon is almost worth the hassle!

That is going to be a fun analysis. I think it makes sense to mix and match for different axis plies, using the lower modulus stuff for the off axis plies and keeping the stiff stuff for the axial plies.

I think spring rate is a big deal, so fiber angle will be a big player.

I hope you have something to sail with in the meantime.

SHC

[JimC 671]

I have a theory that the UK masts at least tend to be too flexible below the hounds and it would be good to really up the masts in that area. Trouble of course is that there's no point in doing something different with the stick if you don't have a rag that's cut to match.

[Daniel Holman 116]

I'm with Jim - try to replicate the Ei of what you had somehow! Take the weight saving of the higher mod stuff. Although you'll need to be careful re robustness much below 1.5mm wall - so some bits may have a lot of hoop.

[Chris Maas 29]

Image004.jpg

I have access to a wide range of carbon UD prepreg, T1000, T700, M46J, M40J.

 

 

Lucky you! I have heard that the VanDusen masts most of the US sailors use are 50msi carbon. The MJ40 is close to that right?

 

I'd like to try a 50mm od mast myself. How will you build yours? Over a mandrel or as a two piece using your slick bladder method?

 

On my IC masts I see a lot of torsion load from the spreaders to the step so I would definitely have some bias tape in there.

 

Not going to use that M55J? Don't throw it out - send it on over here! I'd love to try to build some super thin Moth foils with it. Mostly I use T800. It's good all around and it's what I have a lot of in the shop. Hard to justify the big bucks for the HM.

 

What in the world do you people use the M55J for?

[Harnser 4]

Thought I replied to this earlier, not sure what happened there.

Steve, thanks for the advise, no canoe sailing for me until I have this sorted but plenty of other boats, you must be over here some time soon in the C-class?

Jim, I used to think that as well, but I am no longer so sure, there are lots of ways to control bend low down

Dan, Yes, not below 1.5mm, don't really want to go below 2mm really...

Chris, we have M55j in the frezzer from a couple of projects but the stuff I might be able to use was from an F1 build, like all of these materials I have access to its way beyond its official use by date. I would hesitate use it as even just laminating it can fracture the fibres, but modlus wize its 540 GPa compared with 230 GPa for T700 which I think most masts are made from, it would be intresting to hear if anyone else had used it and if the masts were stong enough. The bladder works ok with low temp stuff but these are all 120+ Deg C pre-pregs so I need to make a mandrel, something I have been thinking about for too long....

Was not sure what the 50msi is .... is that a Hexcell product perhaps IM7? All these fibres are a mine feild!!

[JimC 671]

There are indeed lots of ways to control low bend, but..

I used to be a big fan of lowers for example, but it concerns me now that you have no controlled give. I think I want the spar to be able to yield over its whole length, but progressively, with least below the spreaders.

My current spar does the behaviour, but its too soft for my waistline. I can't get to the end of the plank before the topmast has dumped all the power. I can't quite raise the motivation to stop sailing for a month and glue more carbon on, and if I stiffen it up by moving spreaders I don't like the change in gust response.

I suppose I should get one made, but not sure who by, and for the matching sail the sailmaker I'm used to working with has semi-retired... excuses,I know, but...

[Amati 1,413]

SOP I'm afraid ( mast and sailmaker stuff)....

[Chris Maas 29]

50msi = 345GPa

[JimC 671]

In the interests of a bit of a bump, here are some smaps of unusual bits on my boat. Please note I am not a craftsman like Messrs Paterson, Maas, Clark etc, and these are roughed out prototypes which laziness and incompetence seems to give an extended lifespan to,

 

Firstly, this is my shot at a halyard lock, which I may have posted before.

 

 

On the right its in the lock position. Just pull the halyard up to engage. Having just a big shackle as the fitting at the top of the sail is not ideal: it would be better if it were a different shape. Occasionally this half catches on one side only which gives a false lock which only lasts for about two hundred yards off the beach, However by juggling with the trigger line length I can now spot a false lock. Irritatingly I managed to break the trigger line just before the Europeans and didn't manage to get a new one in time, so I had to check the lock and release it manually by tipping the boat on her side.

 

On the left is the release. Basically you release the clew and the downhaul (tack), then tug on the blue trigger line and that pushes the shackle out of the hook. This part seems pretty good, but I always release it at the beach: in the middle of the 'oggin without the tack and clew released it probably would be another matter.

 

The black tape is another attempt at giving a visual indication of lock/unlock, but my eyes simply are (no longer?) good enough to make out the angle of the tape from deck level.

[JimC 671]

Secondly, dangly pole. The preferred solution for jib s in the UK at the moment seems to be a club footed jib with the boom extended beyond the jib luff with a line up to the mast which effectively gives a vang effect. This works very well with self tacking jibs: I'm not sure the dangly pole would.

Anyway, the dangly pole was invented by I think the UK National 12 class. The big downside to this is the pole rattling around in the jib slot.

 

 

This is the business end. Its actually an old mast tip with a piece of fishing rod glued into it to provide the pole.

The red line is the control line. It runs through the pole and out of the tip, and the end is secured to the jib. Pull on the string (back in the boat(!) and the pole is first pulled to the jib clew and then pulled down the mast.

Going up is black shock cord which runs up the mast to spreader height. This returns the dangly pole to its stowed position when the control line is released. Spot the join - the black elastic was an precautionary replacement during the Europeans and I didn't have time to replace the cord properly.

As you can see there's a stainless steel D ring bonded ito the end of the pole, and this runs up and down the black and white hi tech fibre, which runs from spreaders to mast foot and deals with the inner end of the pole.

[JimC 671]

And finally dangly pole being set.

On the left the pole is pulled less far down, and you can see the foot is looser and the sail well twisted off.

On the right the pole is much further down, the foot is straight and the greater tension also tightens the leech.

[Harnser 4]

I should really spend more time sailing or in the shed building, but here's some current ideas for my next boat

[Amati 1,413]

Damn! That ROCKS! I need to spend less time in the shop....

 

Although I have discovered that Western Hemlock can be nicely shaped. Not as easily as balsa, but it's not hard at all. Files and sure forms in addition to sandpaper.

 

And now I'm allergic to Western Red Cedar. Like face all swollen up and an interesting well distributed rash. But I did discover why Pocock loved the stuff. 18' clear 1 by 6's. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Chris Maas 29]

Wow, that will be a planing machine. I looks like you've made the waterlines forward as straight and narrow as you can? I think that would be important to keep from slapping upwind in chop. For pitching too.

I like the water deflecting aft part of the foredeck. It's amazing how a wave hitting the front of the carriage slows the boat. That's a neat solution.

I would think that the stem is raked enough to noticeably decrease windage. Though it does make the waterlines blunter at deck level. I've been debating about the way to go there on my new boat.

Can you build the hull with three flat(ish) panels - except for the wings?

 

You'll bring it to the Richmond Worlds, right?

[gui 0]

Damn! That ROCKS! I need to spend less time in the shop....

 

Although I have discovered that Western Hemlock can be nicely shaped. Not as easily as balsa, but it's not hard at all. Files and sure forms in addition to sandpaper.

 

And now I'm allergic to Western Red Cedar. Like face all swollen up and an interesting well distributed rash. But I did discover why Pocock loved the stuff. 18' clear 1 by 6's. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

try paulownia ... and let me know how it works out!

[Amati 1,413]

Paulownia in Spokane. The boys at Windsor Plywood will be amused.....

 

I've wanted to try the stuff- does it take varnish well?

[gui 0]

Paulownia in Spokane. The boys at Windsor Plywood will be amused.....

 

I've wanted to try the stuff- does it take varnish well?

I dunno, was hopping to try it out last winter but I couldn't source it in small quantity, so I went with northern white. My wife has a small box made out of paulownia, very light indeed!

Time to plant some trees.

[Amati 1,413]

Depends where you are - in the states there is a supplier who seems to do small quantities- when I get back to my ipad I'll send you a link, but it's expensive...

[gui 0]

Depends where you are - in the states there is a supplier who seems to do small quantities- when I get back to my ipad I'll send you a link, but it's expensive...

Sorry for the slight thread high jack. It's around 6-7$/BF in "large" enough quantities, so similar to cedar. I forgot what was the minimum order, but more than the 30BF or so I needed.

[Amati 1,413]

Not a hijack, since a lot of us build our own...

 

I'm getting clear WRC for $4+ linear foot for 1 by 4's iirr

 

Not a hijack, since a lot of us build our own...

 

I'm getting clear WRC for $4+ linear foot for 1 by 4's iirr

[gui 0]

Not a hijack, since a lot of us build our own...

 

I'm getting clear WRC for $4+ linear foot for 1 by 4's iirr

 

Not a hijack, since a lot of us build our own...

 

I'm getting clear WRC for $4+ linear foot for 1 by 4's iirr

 

Better be good stuff! Northern white has similar properties and is a lot cheaper, at least here in MD.

[Harnser 4]

Wow, that will be a planing machine. I looks like you've made the waterlines forward as straight and narrow as you can? I think that would be important to keep from slapping upwind in chop. For pitching too.

I like the water deflecting aft part of the foredeck. It's amazing how a wave hitting the front of the carriage slows the boat. That's a neat solution.

I would think that the stem is raked enough to noticeably decrease windage. Though it does make the waterlines blunter at deck level. I've been debating about the way to go there on my new boat.

Can you build the hull with three flat(ish) panels - except for the wings?

 

You'll bring it to the Richmond Worlds, right?

Hi Chris

That would be great to get time to build a new boat by next July (shipping date for the boats ) but my guess is that I will be making all the bits first that will be spares for Dragonfly and time will run out for a new hull, just ideas at the moment, the bottom panel is the same shape from above as Dragonfly but with less shape in it and less rocker. Too many ideas, need to make a start soon on those spare bits, sliding seat and carige first I think as I have come to a decision on how to make them, foils settled on as well. Hull and rig the difficult ones.....

[Amati 1,413]

 

Depends where you are - in the states there is a supplier who seems to do small quantities- when I get back to my ipad I'll send you a link, but it's expensive...

Sorry for the slight thread high jack. It's around 6-7$/BF in "large" enough quantities, so similar to cedar. I forgot what was the minimum order, but more than the 30BF or so I needed.

Is this where you've been looking at Paulonia?

 

 

http://www.worldpaulownia.com/html/blank.html

[gui 0]

 

 

Depends where you are - in the states there is a supplier who seems to do small quantities- when I get back to my ipad I'll send you a link, but it's expensive...

Sorry for the slight thread high jack. It's around 6-7$/BF in "large" enough quantities, so similar to cedar. I forgot what was the minimum order, but more than the 30BF or so I needed.

Is this where you've been looking at Paulonia?

 

 

http://www.worldpaulownia.com/html/blank.html

Nope, there's a lumber yard in MD that sales various kind of paulownia. If you're interested I could pm you the phone#/email of the contact person.

It's known as kiri down under, maybe somebody from down S will tell us all about it?

[Steve Clark 780]

Obeche was one of my favorite timbers back when I could get it from Cotton Hanlon Cayuta New York.

Used for all sorts of things like Les Paul Guitars, glues and works well. Lighter than cedar, but not as durable.

Great for board blanks.

SHC

[gui 0]

Obeche was one of my favorite timbers back when I could get it from Cotton Hanlon Cayuta New York.

Used for all sorts of things like Les Paul Guitars, glues and works well. Lighter than cedar, but not as durable.

Great for board blanks.

SHC

 

It's pretty amazing the variance that you get when you look at wood spec's (~+/-100kg/m3):

Obeche: 380kg/m3

WRC: 356kg/m3

Kiri/Paulownia: 280kg/m3

Balsa: 160kg/m3

[Amati 1,413]

I had dream about balsa. Bob Simmons was there! With 12 coats of spar varnish it seemed tough enough. At least in the 4th iteration. Fun to shape too. But with no sheathing?

 

I wonder.....

 

(it's only time and $$$, right?)

[Amati 1,413]

This might be interesting:

 

 

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/

 

Or depressing...

[Amati 1,413]

what is the app that ALLOWS an Apple OS to post a pic on DA? Anybody know? I just spent an hour trying to download a pic of the new canoe. NO LUCK. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh

 

"this image cannot be shared on this community" or some such BULLSHIT

[chrishampe 2]

I upload images to flickr and paste the bb code to share the image

[Jethrow 137]

I think that posting photos of new IC's has been banned internationally because it causes feelings of jealousy and envy...

[Amati 1,413]

Flickr...

[Amati 1,413]

Anyway, took the new canoe out for a sail before the snows come...

 

Since pics are a bit hard to post from MacOS world to DA, a quick synopsis in verbiage-

 

Easiest way to describe the canoe is minimal rocker, more bow than stern, but stern is tucked up a bit in the last 2' or so to deal with chop- maybe 1-1 & 1/4" overall. Box rails, 4 1/2" thick. Una rig, Henry Bosset sail, Force Five mast and boom ( going from the known to the relative unknown- and Henry is Week's F5 official sailmaker. I was having a terrible time getting a mastmaker and sailmaker on the same page, and Henry knows the mast deflections well...). Some arc to the top of the deck to shed water.

 

True Ames DB, Phil's foil rudder, both about 29" or so in span, 4-5" chord. Rudder 0012, DB probably 63-10AO. To hold mast up, I went with a double wishbone from under the seat, which seems solid. Will probably add cabin later to meet rules. Mast at 4' from bow.

 

Went with a wide body hull- 36". Low freeboard is a concept being thrown around amongst SUP shapers as a different approach to wave piercing vs vertical bow fineness.

 

What a great boat to sail! Extremely sensitive to the wind, while one of the easiest boats to sail I've ever come across. Very smooth.

I shaped the bow to a slightly flattened ellipse, and it did the strangest thing- threw up a little 3" plume right at the bow, aft about 3".

No bow wave I could see, and the 1/2 degree bow entry is not exactly 7 degrees, Chris. Mane this was a vertical bow wave? Dunno.

Vertical bow. The bow stayed level, didn't go up or down. Waves didn't seem to have any effect. 5 degrees of heel seemed to get better speed, less interference from waves encountered, and a cleaner stern wve- like none. But she never seemed to want to fly.

Not stuck, really, just smooth. A hint of what I would call Div 1 pearling, but never was the bow below the surface.

 

Light helm w/ rudder at stern.

 

I need to sleep will follow up tommorow. Absolutely wonderful sailing in lightish(5-8 K TW,

 

Paul

[Amati 1,413]

More..

 

Even with 23 lbs of tin mast and boom, and the sail up, no problems keeping her upright, even when I wasn't on board. Going straight downwind was no problem, even when the wind came up to 8-10, which was the max yesterday.

 

I became fascinated by the bow fountain, and reverted to windsurfing mode, standing whilst sailing, and I had to stand 3'-4' from the stern to get the bow to raise. Until I moved way back, the bow did not budge. Hysteresis? For example, moving back a foot from the seat, two feet, three feet did nothing to the attitude of the hull! And it felt funny, like there was something keeping the hull trimmed level, flow or something. Maybe that sucky thang, Chris? But with hardly any rocker? And I was definitely getting into forced mode.

Computer modeling seemed to imply that 5-10 degrees of heel might break things loose, but there was no lift that I could tell, although the flow around the hull, especially aft smoothed out, and even with the planform outline providing rocker with the hull heeled, no lift on the bow. It felt a bit faster.

 

All this really has me thinking about the nature of rocker, especially distribution of volume, and the nature of flow around a hull with pointy ends. And basically the hull is a smoothed version of this planform: <>

 

One thing that was a problem is that the hull is massively overweight. Overall, she is about 40lbs overweight. Granted things felt very solid, so I think there is room to pare weight.

 

I had a nice amount of weather helm with the DB at the point of max beam, about 8'6" from the bow. I could move the DB back in the slot about 14", and when I moved it back all the way, the helm was very neutral, so I think I got that right. The sun went down before I could mess with my mast rake. I can't adjust that while sailing- have to go in.

 

Which brings me to a main point- with an una rig, the mast is waaaaaay forward, about 25% of LOA back from the bow. Granted, I had tin up there, and it's a lot of weight up towards the bow. May even with carbon, given the amount of structure for twisting etc. Even with a wide body, which I thought might ameliorate things, it was obvious she was nose heavy. But as I mentioned above, I don't think moving the seat aft would help that much. That said, she floated on her lines with me sitting on the middle of the seat.

 

Leakage was another problem, mainly in the seat. It is a torsion box, and I thought I had holes sealed, but when I tipped her over to figure out why the top of the sail was twisted, the sound of escaping air could be heard. Who knows how much weight that was. And probably on both sides....

 

The balsa I used on the bow was fine until I had to move some stuff for the motorboats at the launching ramp, and the bow got banged by the waves and wind into the concrete launching ramp for 10-15 minutes. Same happened to the stern a bit later, with remarkably similar results. Stern was 4mm okume. The usual knocking against plastic floatation boxes and wood and steel pilings seemed ok, even when the wind shifted and I was on the windward side of things. (only one side to the launching facilities) I've got to find somewhere else to launch, but given the paucity of public shoreline around here, and a motorboat mindset, it will take some looking. Seat needs to be higher.

 

We made a video of the follies, and I'll post it when we get it edited and put on YouTube, if anyone is still interested.

 

I think it's possible to do a canoe with the tech I'm using- e.g. Wood, titebond 3, annular bronze ring nails, and s/s screws, but my approach has to change radically.

 

Overall, an 80% positive experience. A sweet sweet sail. Talk about responsive to every breath of the wind! I'd forgotten how much fun sitting out over the water on a seat is. Magic. As many of you know, it's intense fun to take an idea to fruition and see where it works and where it doesn't. Not cheaper than therapy, if you count $/hour + materials, but a bit more fun that designing and building windsurfers. Really!

 

FWIW, I think there is something to the idea of wave piercing horizontally rather than vertically. The way the sides of the hull cut through waves was very much like Div 1 and the flatter Div 2 boards. The waves flow over the sides, hardly disturbed, as the edge of the hull cuts under the waves. No slapping. The bow, however is tricky. And it's very very wet. And the hull has to rise if planing.

I'm beginning to wonder about previous remarks about IC hulls not planing like skiffs or windsurfers. I don't see why not, but maybe I'm missing something? Even at 36", I didn't feeling like things were about to pop on the surface of the water, like even a Laser or longboard would. She is obviously fast, but it's different....

 

I'm stoked.

 

Paul

[Doug Lord 1,219]

Congratulations, Paul. Looking forward to pictures and the video.....

[Amati 1,413]

So, if you all haven't put me on ignore-

 

 

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad

 

The vid you see here is mainly in 0-4 K.

 

The Bach is my own recording, so no copyright problems.

 

Excuse the wobbly camera work- my wife's left hand was attached to a 4 year old West Highland White Terrier, and he was not interested in me sailing. Other dogs, kids, etc.....

 

Hope this explains my notes above.

 

IC 255!!

[fdsailor 0]

So, if you all haven't put me on ignore-

 

 

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad

 

The vid you see here is mainly in 0-4 K.

 

The Bach is my own recording, so no copyright problems.

 

Excuse the wobbly camera work- my wife's left hand was attached to a 4 year old West Highland White Terrier, and he was not interested in me sailing. Other dogs, kids, etc.....

 

Hope this explains my notes above.

 

IC 255!!

Well done that man! Gotta love experimental projects like this. 1/5th cost at 1/2 the time using DIY store materials materials for 80% performance = at least twice the fun I think. You may not be as fast as the other ones but the fun factor is mighty high. Like your Bach too - I've just recorded Prokofiev 7th Piano Sonata, the last movement of which would make a good high wind sailing soundtrack i think

[Jethrow 137]

Holy low freeboard Batman!

[Mal Smith 28]

Paul,

 

Very interesting. Looks like fun and shows that an IC doesn't have to be all high tech. Love the soft sail. Just a few questions:

 

Does it meet the 275mm freeboard rule?

 

It looks like the seat is fixed. Can it actually slide?

[Steve Clark 780]

Paul:

Is it still 14' long?

Does this boat feature the fore and aft sliding mast and daggerboard concept you were interested in?

Glad to see you getting wet.

SHC

[Doug Lord 1,219]

So, if you all haven't put me on ignore-

 

 

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

 

Sent from my iPad

 

The vid you see here is mainly in 0-4 K.

 

The Bach is my own recording, so no copyright problems.

 

Excuse the wobbly camera work- my wife's left hand was attached to a 4 year old West Highland White Terrier, and he was not interested in me sailing. Other dogs, kids, etc.....

 

Hope this explains my notes above.

 

IC 255!!

=============

Congratulations again , Paul. That seems like really low freeboard-will be interesting in waves. I can't tell and I reread two of your posts but does the seat slide side to side and/ or fore and aft?

I bet you're happy to get her sailing!

[Amati 1,413]

Thank yew thank yew. Cheap and cheerful way to prototype. This is Mk (let's see....) Vi or VII, and the first one to sail. This one was made with stuff I had on hand, so, for example, the ply was around 18lbs a sheet, which is the main reason she's so heavy. Used hemlock and styrofoam for the internal grid and floatation, and a waterproof bathroom tub adhesive for glueing the blue board to wood- supposedly low VOC's, but pretty nasty nonetheless- it's one advantage is that it doesn't dry brittle. Ace hardware spar varnish, which seems really tough, so far at least. Steep learning curve

 

How can I get a listen to your P7? Gnarly piece! What piano? ( hoping Bechstein...) last movement onto of a sailing vid would to have at least one death roll? I think I know where. I'll have to give a listen though.

 

 

 

 

So, if you all haven't put me on ignore-

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

Sent from my iPad

The vid you see here is mainly in 0-4 K.

The Bach is my own recording, so no copyright problems.

Excuse the wobbly camera work- my wife's left hand was attached to a 4 year old West Highland White Terrier, and he was not interested in me sailing. Other dogs, kids, etc.....

Hope this explains my notes above.

IC 255!!

Well done that man! Gotta love experimental projects like this. 1/5th cost at 1/2 the time using DIY store materials materials for 80% performance = at least twice the fun I think. You may not be as fast as the other ones but the fun factor is mighty high. Like your Bach too - I've just recorded Prokofiev 7th Piano Sonata, the last movement of which would make a good high wind sailing soundtrack i think

[Amati 1,413]

Holy low freeboard Batman!

If you look at it from a certain angle, it kind of looks like an SUP. Kind of. I should find the Swaylocks thread on low freeboard SUP's and post it. There are advantages going through waves, and surfing swells, vs high sides slapping water. At least that's the theory.

And I thought going minimal would save weight.

[Amati 1,413]

Paul,

 

Very interesting. Looks like fun and shows that an IC doesn't have to be all high tech. Love the soft sail. Just a few questions:

 

Does it meet the 275mm freeboard rule?

 

It looks like the seat is fixed. Can it actually slide?

275mm rule? When she weighed in sooooo heavy I figured it was better to leave the cabin off and see if she'd sink or not. The advantage of a wide body is that the 275mm rule is a bit easier to meet. This hull started out @ 44" beam. It was frightening.

I cut it down. Seat is fixed. Easier, and seats mostly didn't used to slide fore and aft, so going 22" on the seat promised some body English to influence pitch. Not really. Easier for me to tack too. Although I really really really need some non skid.

 

The soft sail is a mix of older longboard course racing practice (thanks Chris 249 for pointing out that the concept when compared to modern windsurfing sails works better that some folks want it to ) and Merlin mainsail planform shape. Light and a lot less$$$. I still need to get cut the boom to the right length, and get a handle on the controls. Dacron rocks, baby!

[Amati 1,413]

Paul:

Is it still 14' long?

Does this boat feature the fore and aft sliding mast and daggerboard concept you were interested in?

Glad to see you getting wet.

SHC

Thanks Steve. Wet and cold. Low 50's. The (what to call it?) moving stuff approach is still consuming me, but I realized I need to do something to get out sailing and see if some of my ideas are garbage or not, and this was a hoot! The DB moves the CLR enough so I think I could steer with that, combined with weight movement, and having the DB in a slot makes a lot more sense in many ways, although still a lot of drag. I think the slot would need to be another 6" long or so. If the weather holds, and my father in law gets his heart valve taken care of soon I'll be going out some more before snow. I need to mess with mast rake, and I think the double wishbone shows promise for mast rake control, although this setup doesn't slide. If the base slid- its under the seat now- on rails, and was basically the seat rack, you'd have rake control on the fly. Rake control is at the partners right now, and not adjustable in the fly, but with a slight mod of them I think it would be possible. Tripods are really strong- I think I've proved that to myself- but I really don't need the forward leg of the current tripod. It's there to hold the front end of wishbone in the air. If the mast itself could hold the wishbone up (be the 3rd leg of the tripod), and you could figure out a collar that the wishbones could move in, and the ends of the wishbone on the tracks could be attached to a swiveling seat, you could basically use your legs to put the seat, and therefore the wishbones, and therefore the mast in any rake or cant that you wish, intuitively and on the fly. The mast step design would be, um, interesting. As Cammas and most windsurfers show, you don't need much movement. Anyhoo, this proto is a first step towards that- the wishbone setup is rigid- no cracking sounds or flex that I could see. I suppose you could attach a mechanism from this stuff to the DB that would move it for and aft as well as the rig is moved.

 

The problem I see with this is that it might make a sliding (athwartship) seat a bit too much to handle. Aside from ease of build, I wanted to see what a seat more like a rack would be like as far as handling and leverage. That and my build is primitive right now.

Haven't got out to the end of the seat yet.

 

I have pics, but getting them on DA from Apple OS is a pain, so if any of you guys want them, PM me with your personal email addresses and I'll send closeups to you. I figure this is the first sailing iteration testing basic ideas in a number of ways.

 

BTW, I'm using a Formula skeg for a DB. Very smooth, but it doesnt float. I'm talking to Bob Ames to see if I can get him to do a glassed bamboo foil that might float, but I want a Tuttle mold on the top, so probably SOL. Too bad. Although if I make a wood cap, that might do it.

 

Whether I can do all of this with my build tech? Dunno. But winter is coming, and the garage is heated.

 

 

Hull is just short of 16' so I didn't need to licence her. I'm not racing this hull anyway, just a testbed.

[Amati 1,413]

And to control a swiveling seat, I think you'd need your feet on the gunwale. Wider hulls would help here, but width = weight.

[Amati 1,413]

I didn't mean Bob Ames: I meant Chuck Ames.

 

Sorry, Bob. Sorry, Chuck.

 

Canoes on the brain...

[Amati 1,413]

FWIW, canoe is now in landfill/in 3 pieces. (Catharsis!) Learned enough from her. Sail, foils and spars in the garage.

 

Onward!

 

Any thoughts, anyone, on max freeboard for easy reboarding after capsize?

[FilYDesigner 0]

Hi, I'm sorry if I ask you but I didn't follow all the post.

Do u want build another boat?

In any case it's a nice boat..

[Amati 1,413]

The next build is beginning. I'd say this a steep learning curve but that would imply a short timeline...

 

And yes Doug, it was nice to get her in the water!

 

But catharsis and a trip to the dump? Hmmmmm

[Steve Clark 780]

Paul:

I think freeboard should be driven by stability instead of remounting.

You need enough so the leeward gunwale doesn't go under too soon.

Depends n the rest of the hull shape, but the rule is kind of a guideline of what was about right.

SHC.

[JimC 671]

An interesting subtlety of the freeboard thing is that a wider atern needs more freeboard aft. Unanticipated lesson from my big bottom nethercott experiment.

[Amati 1,413]

Yup. Its interesting though - when you come at a hull from 44" beam rather than 30", rails can be very thin, and Paradox came mind. I'll post a linky to it. Interesting stuff. Wave piercing can be aproached in a multi axis perspective, I still think. Maybe. Surfboards do it all the time....

[Amati 1,413]

An interesting subtlety of the freeboard thing is that a wider atern needs more freeboard aft. Unanticipated lesson from my big bottom nethercott experiment.

You know, that was windsurfing board experience in the 70's- witness the bumps at the stern for floatation backl then- but they did iron our the

Problem . Somehow. I think I have

A

Link that

Might be interesting will be forthcoming from StarBoardLand when I return from dinner.

 

You can only imagine how thrilled the table is that I'm posting this.....

[Amati 1,413]

Yup. Its interesting though - when you come at a hull from 44" beam rather than 30", rails can be very thin, and Paradox came mind. I'll post a linky to it. Interesting stuff. Wave piercing can be aproached in a multi axis perspective, I still think. Maybe. Surfboards do it all the time....

 

 

http://www.freewebs.com/paradoxbuild/

[Amati 1,413]

 

An interesting subtlety of the freeboard thing is that a wider atern needs more freeboard aft. Unanticipated lesson from my big bottom nethercott experiment.

You know, that was windsurfing board experience in the 70's- witness the bumps at the stern for floatation backl then- but they did iron our the

Problem . Somehow. I think I have

A

Link that

Might be interesting will be forthcoming from StarBoardLand when I return from dinner.

 

You can only imagine how thrilled the table is that I'm posting this.....

http://www.star-board.com/2012/products/boards/index.php?id=phantom

[Andy P 23]

Dragonfly number 3 for Phil Robin nearly done.

20kg before painting

[Amati 1,413]

diggin' the stern- complex, crisp chines, clean deck.

 

Very Cool...

[DaveT 0]

sweet

[stevejclarke 0]

 

Morrison2 GBR324 "Hells Bells" boat number 4 just about to be launched with experimental spinnaker option. Two more M2's in build.

 

 

[Mal Smith 28]

Hells Bells cut out.JPG

 

Morrison2 GBR324 "Hells Bells" boat number 4 just about to be launched with experimental spinnaker option...

 

Had to happen...

[High Flow 1]

does anyone still build these in wood?

[JimC 671]

Yes, there are some tortured ply boats. There's a fair bit of info back in the thread as several of the builders are here.

[Phil S 159]

Re ply ICs see http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/default.asp?Page=24752&MenuID=How%5Fto%2F13919%2F0%2CHow%5Fto%5FBuild%5Fan%5FIC%2F13920%2F0 for a how to tutorial on my stressed ply IC. Steve Clark has developped the method to create a variety of different shapes. Build some models and decide what shape you like and how to cut the ply to achieve it.

[High Flow 1]

Re ply ICs see http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/default.asp?Page=24752&MenuID=How%5Fto%2F13919%2F0%2CHow%5Fto%5FBuild%5Fan%5FIC%2F13920%2F0 for a how to tutorial on my stressed ply IC. Steve Clark has developped the method to create a variety of different shapes. Build some models and decide what shape you like and how to cut the ply to achieve it.

link doesn't work

[Phil S 159]

Try: http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-10043-0-0-0&sID=299282

[High Flow 1]

wow, great!

amazing.

and i could actually build that. i think.

i'm sure this has been discussed here before in detail: why only one sail?

+ handling

- efficiency

+ looks! (don't ask my why, the 2 sail sailplan looks strange)

i love that unstayed cat rig!

do you know of any reproductions?

 

thanks!