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I'd be curious to know what the build of the board is to make it so smooth and still have a gentle twist to the trailing edge. All the flaps I've seen before have a visible hinge area, or at least it's noticeable. Then being able to get such a nice smooth (almost soft) looking twist on it to 0deg at the bottom is amazing...

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Good to see the arms race hotting up. Feeling a little inadequate, nothing new to show, Dragonfly looking a little worn around the edges, I think 3 of the 11 boats we are bringing from the UK will be newly launched this year as well. In the process (seems to take ages) of finalising the shipping arangements for the UK fleet. Looking forward to seeing all these boats in the flesh!

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Bloody hell that looks sweet. Keen to know how that very neatly executed flapper gets flapper the right way - in n12s and merlins the leeward jib sheet does it, could you do it for a self tacker? I haven't thought of an elegant way.

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Only way I could think of would be to use anchors of shroud tension after the first 4:1 or 8:1 to bring the load down. On an i14 (ww shroud slacker) you'd have to have opposite control to ic (lw shroud slacker)

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So Chris, I vaguely remember you posting a pic here bending some CF into a foil shaped object d'art.

 

Between thumb and forefinger IIRR-

 

Is this what that has wrought?

 

Or morphed, I guess...

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Only way I could think of would be to use anchors of shroud tension after the first 4:1 or 8:1 to bring the load down. On an i14 (ww shroud slacker) you'd have to have opposite control to ic (lw shroud slacker)

 

Mal Smith also suggested tying the actuator to the shrouds. I think it could be easily done. The dead ends for the 18:1 shroud tensioners are just forward of the daggerboard. That would pull in the range of 10kg -50kg. Maybe put a 2:1 on that.

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So Chris, I vaguely remember you posting a pic here bending some CF into a foil shaped object d'art.

 

Between thumb and forefinger IIRR-

 

Is this what that has wrought?

 

Or morphed, I guess...

 

No. No bending going on there. Just a hinge. The pictures are more flattering than reality.

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Seven new boats in the UK this year so far.

 

post-37976-0-43681300-1400839063_thumb.jpg

 

Sixth Morrison2, 2nd out of new production mould GBR330 needs fitting out and testing - time running short....

 

Three Slurps from Tony Marston's new production moulds producing high quality fibre glass boats at around £10K

 

GBR328 - Dragonfly - Phil Robin. Just Launched.

 

GBR329 - Morrison2 - Robin Wood. Launched April and looking fast.

 

GBR330 - Morrison2 - Steve Clarke. Above. Needs a few things screwing on!

 

GBR324 - EllisNarrow - John Ellis. Boy is this boat narrow and something of a challenge in a f3 or above by all accounts. Sadly not coming to the Worlds.

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So the Americas Cup is supposedly going to Bermuda or somewhere between here and the international dateline .....

BUT

The ICs are still coming to the XIX World Championships at Richmond YC on SF Bay this Sept., 15 sign ups so far.

Registration is easy thru the link on the richmondyc.org site.

You can sign up ,make housing requests ,order meals in advance or warm things to wear if/when the fog rolls in. Credit cards accepted, but the paying can be done later so you don't carry a balance before you even get on the plane or in the car.

All this hype is to encourage the determined and coax the hesitant into letting us know if your coming so we can put on the best regatta possible.

We put together a You Tube video a while ago, search:

International Canoe Worlds 2014 Promo

And it should play, along with the soundtrack, at least it did.

Some early Spring shots and some clips from the '93 Worlds , complete with the requisite crashes.

 

DWO

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Great video by the way Del!

Credit DP and Editor Gail Yando for the work.

Sailing wives are the best.

More to come!

DWO

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Nice work indeed. Really brought back memories. Looking forward to good times with old faces. Let it blow

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Great stuff Del, fun to see my old boat USA204,wish I had been there sailing it, but sure you'll have lots of crash highlights from me this time in GBR266! So looking forward to meeting all my heroes in person!

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If you have 20 min.or so to watch a couple of ICs blast around SF Bay check out the go pro video.

 

 

It's edited down from the 21/2+ hrs of raw footage but we left the good stuff like flubbed tacks and capsizes.

Was an experiment with the speed puck as well, tho its sometimes hard to read in the shadows.

Something else to think about out there.

Lets see , wind from 230 degrees , blowing 17, giving a reach angle of 95, its 1330 hrs the 28th of may so the sun angle will put a shadow....... Na, TMI it was too good day to go there,

The other canoes are Chris Maas, and Mikey Radziejowski

Enjoy,

DWO

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Awesome stuff Del!, sure looks fast! And what a strange concept, launch off a dock and not get in water? Love to try that sometime!

Here's one from last weekend at Waco, much IC fun was had!post-39147-0-28329800-1403101625_thumb.jpg

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'Morning,

I don't know what class this is. Canoe designed and owned by Uffa Fox, circa 1930's. Now in storage in Knysna, South Africa.

Regards,

Multisail.post-14467-0-55118800-1403423176_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-19544000-1403423198_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-75170800-1403423231_thumb.jpg

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Good morning,

Further to the Uffa Fox canoe. Uffa fox won a world title in the USA with this boat. It has a choose of two rudders which slides down a cassette in the stern. The boat has twin centreboards. Again there is a choose of deep or short boards. The boards have lead inserts to provide ballast.

Apparently a rule in the States at the time was that the boats had to have two masts. In the UK only one mast was required so Uffa Fox took a spar and rigged it up to replace the forestay. This spar became the "foremast". Experts on the class can help out here......

This canoe somehow ended up in South Africa. It is in mint condition but has not been afloat for decades. My mate who has it says everybody wants to try it out but all is too scared to be the one who damages it!

A piece of sailing history.

 

Multisail.

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Indeed you have a part of Canoe Sailing history.

It does look like, and the plans suggest, it is one of the "East Anglian" designs that he sailed when he won the ACA Challenge Cup and the New York Cup in 1933. Those events were the Genesis of the international class rule that we have today.

Fascinating to know how she got to South Africa.

Are there any identifying marks , builders plaques or perhaps a sail number to be had?

If it is East Anglian she belongs in a museum somewhere on the Isle of Wight.

DWO

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Well that's a surprise.

According to a list I was sent Valiant is in the UK, but needs a total rebuild, and East Anglian was broken up in 1963. Stranger things have happened though. What is there in the way of sails and spars? The "American" rig was unstayed,, so the spars were stepped in sockets, but that would most likely have been changed later.

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Good evening,

Some more pictures. The canoe is complete, all the spars are there. I think even the sails.post-14467-0-60502800-1403457115_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-59944600-1403457182_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-46851900-1403457204_thumb.jpg

 

Regards,

Multisail.

 

Good evening,

Some more pictures. The canoe is complete, all the spars are there. I think even the sails.post-14467-0-60502800-1403457115_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-59944600-1403457182_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-46851900-1403457204_thumb.jpg

 

Regards,

Multisail.

 

Good evening,

Some more pictures. The canoe is complete, all the spars are there. I think even the sails.post-14467-0-60502800-1403457115_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-59944600-1403457182_thumb.jpgpost-14467-0-46851900-1403457204_thumb.jpg

 

Regards,

Multisail.

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Valiant originally carried sail number 21, and East Anglian either 22 or A1. Anything on the sails would be off great interest.

 

The "English" rig originally fitted into a tabernacle, which presumably socketed into the step for the unstayed masts, and from photos in Uffas book they were launched with an obstruction free foredeck as in your photos, but had gained a breakwater on the deck as per the drawing by the time they reached the US. Other than the breakwater from the little info I have the cockpit proportions look more like Valiant and East Anglian than later Uffa Canoes.

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If East Anglian, there has to be some vestige of the foremast step. Which doesn't show up in your pictures. The step details are clear in the construction drawing but not in the pictures.

Both East Anglian and Valiant are mentioned in Uffa's Second Book as competing in the 1935 season, so possibly they were modified after they returned from the USA to remove the additional mast step. Fox doesn't say.

The two centerboards are also a function of the difference between American and English rules before amalgamation. English sailed with ballasted drop keels and no sliding seats. Americans sailed with ballasted centerboards and with unlimited sliding seats.

SHC

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Uffa's "Defiant" is hanging in the National Maritime Museum in Falmouth Cornwall. So there is representation of his work in the class at least at some museum.

SHC

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Good evening,

I lifted this off the owner's facebook page.post-14467-0-02948700-1403548990_thumb.jpg

 

The picture is from one of Uffa Fox's books and he believes this is the boat in question.

 

That's about it.

Multisail.

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Provenance is the problem here. The discovery of any pre war canoe is exciting, and if she's one of the two boats from the unification series that's trebly exciting. But we have in UK records a current owner for 21, Roger deQuincey's boat, and a date when 22, Uffa's boat, was destroyed. Boats recorded as destroyed have reappeared before now, but it also seems possible that a third boat to the design could have been built later snd shipped direct to Sa, not appearing on the Brit lregistry, maybe even incorporating some of the many spares made for the

Challenge... Underdeck photos could tell us lots, I'd love to see some.

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After Roger and Uffa won the NYCC trophy there was quite a flurry of building. If my memory is correct about nine boats in the three years between East Anglian/Valiant and Wake. I don't remember getting anything interesting on these boats, but relying on Uffas books which mention Defiant and Gallant. Either of these designs would probably be fairly easy to identify, if built without modification, as Defiant was 16 ft and Gallant had a high boom. The photos look like one of the earlier canoes, with a high stern. Sterns got lower over the period from East Anglian/Valiant and Wake. A measurement of the stern height will almost certainly suggest how far along the lineage from East Anglian to Wake this boat is. I think that Graham Mackereth has Valiant, and it would be worth asking him if he could give measurements which could verify or deny that this canoe is to the same design. Looking at the Uffa Fox website it would appear that Wake is the oldest design for which the plans are available, but it may be that Tony Dixon has older plans in the archives. Might be worth a try! I know nothing about K22, which would seem a likely candidate? She looks in immaculate condition, I would love to see her on the water.

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In the last post I said maybe K22. I meant the immediate follow up to the East Anglian/ Valiant series. Not sure what number that would have been if registered in UK but may not have been registered with the RCC anyway.


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According to the list I have the pre war ICs in the UK were:

 

No,Year ,Name , Current Status, Designer, Builder, First Owner

21, 1933, Valiant, Privately owned, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

22, 1933, East Anglian, broken up 1960, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox

23, 1934, Defiant, National Maritime Museum Cornwall, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

24, 1934, Britomart, Newport (IOW) Classic Boat Museum, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox

25, 1934, Brilliant, Lost, Probably Uffa Fox,

26, 1935, Zenith, Privately owned, , Swedish B Class Import

27, 1935, Anitra, Lost, , ,

28, 1935, Gallant, Lost, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Billy de Quincey

29, 1935?, Solitary Snipe, Lost, , ,

30, 1935?, Radiant, Privately owned 1980, Probably Uffa Fox,

31, 1937, Wake, now in a (Swedish?) museum, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

32, 1937, Flying Fish, Privately owned, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Paul Clift

33, 1937, If, Sold to Sweden 1960, later destroyed

34, 1937, Ubique, Waiting restoration at Clyde Canoe Club

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Diving Clear

post-738-0-12704700-1404837525_thumb.gif

 

Sometimes it is attempted in the Pike Position

It's really hard to hit the spot between the mast.

Degree of difficulty of this dive is 1.4 but the entry was really poor;

Remember:

The Entry: The entry into the water, whether it is a head-first or feet-first entry, shall be vertical or as close to vertical as possible. The diver’s body shall be straight, the legs together, and the toes pointed. The arms must be extended over the head and in-line with body on head-first entries. On feet-first entries the arms shall be straight and at the diver’s side.

 

I'm afraid this dive really cost Rob a shot at the finals.

SHC

 

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According to the list I have the pre war ICs in the UK were:

 

No,Year ,Name , Current Status, Designer, Builder, First Owner

21, 1933, Valiant, Privately owned, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

22, 1933, East Anglian, broken up 1960, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox

23, 1934, Defiant, National Maritime Museum Cornwall, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

24, 1934, Britomart, Newport (IOW) Classic Boat Museum, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox

25, 1934, Brilliant, Lost, Probably Uffa Fox,

26, 1935, Zenith, Privately owned, , Swedish B Class Import

27, 1935, Anitra, Lost, , ,

28, 1935, Gallant, Lost, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Billy de Quincey

29, 1935?, Solitary Snipe, Lost, , ,

30, 1935?, Radiant, Privately owned 1980, Probably Uffa Fox,

31, 1937, Wake, now in a (Swedish?) museum, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

32, 1937, Flying Fish, Privately owned, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Paul Clift

33, 1937, If, Sold to Sweden 1960, later destroyed

34, 1937, Ubique, Waiting restoration at Clyde Canoe Club

 

K26 is still in my workshop, only 82 new ribs to go.

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According to the list I have the pre war ICs in the UK were:

34, 1937, Ubique, Waiting restoration at Clyde Canoe Club

Unfortunately 34 Ubique has been destroyed.

 

Ian McP

Loch Lomond SC (originally Clyde Canoe Club)

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British Team sponsored by C12 Performance Boats and Williams Shipping after some frantic last minute repairs, adjustments and spairs making will be packing our boats on Saturday for Richond Y C!

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According to the list I have the pre war ICs in the UK were:

 

No,Year ,Name , Current Status, Designer, Builder, First Owner

21, 1933, Valiant, Privately owned, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

22, 1933, East Anglian, broken up 1960, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox

23, 1934, Defiant, National Maritime Museum Cornwall, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

24, 1934, Britomart, Newport (IOW) Classic Boat Museum, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox

25, 1934, Brilliant, Lost, Probably Uffa Fox,

26, 1935, Zenith, Privately owned, , Swedish B Class Import

27, 1935, Anitra, Lost, , ,

28, 1935, Gallant, Lost, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Billy de Quincey

29, 1935?, Solitary Snipe, Lost, , ,

30, 1935?, Radiant, Privately owned 1980, Probably Uffa Fox,

31, 1937, Wake, now in a (Swedish?) museum, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Roger de Quincey

32, 1937, Flying Fish, Privately owned, Uffa Fox, Uffa Fox, Paul Clift

33, 1937, If, Sold to Sweden 1960, later destroyed

34, 1937, Ubique, Waiting restoration at Clyde Canoe Club

Good evening,

I have drawn the owner of the South African Uffa Fox canoe's attention to this thread and he will hopefully contact the Class historians with particular details which could identify the boat.

Regards,

Multisail.

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The list of possibles can be refined from that given be Jim, to:

22, East Anglian, recorded as broken, but could be wrong as it might have been hearsay. I've been in touch with Peter Wells, and he agrees that the photos do look like the boat could be East Anglian. He says he cannot recall why she was recorded as having been destroyed, and it could just be a case of no-one being able to find her! Which, of course, would have been the case if she had gone to South Africa. She apparently never sailed on the Thames but was sailed on Chichester Harbour, so not in the immediate purview of the RCC historians. Peter said that originally her cockpit floor was flat so some modifications must have been done, if the photos are really her. They could possibly have been done when the modern hatch covers were installed, do they look mid 1960S?,
25, Brilliant, unknown whereabouts, probably 16 ft as built the same year as Defiant and Britomart, is there a record from of LOA the RCC archive? Probably not her.
27, Anitra, unknown whereabouts
28, Gallant, unknown whereabouts
29, Solitary Snipe, unknown whereabouts,

Gallant and Solitary Snipe were built the same year, so most probably to the same line plan. The Photo of Solitary Snipe in Uffa's book put the forward cockpit bulkhead adjacent to the mast step, rather than some distance behind it. So probably neither of these two

All later boats had the modern style of dished deck, so could not be any of these.

It seems to me that the boat is most likely to be East Anglian or 27, Anitra. My money, at the moment, is on East Anglian, but this really does need some more confirmatory data.

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UK (GBR) IC Team boats packed and ready for shipping.

 

post-37976-0-27846000-1405345914_thumb.jpg

 

The UK team comprising of 11 boats were packed on Saturday 12th July ready for shipping to Richmond YC. A 6 week sea voyage lies ahead of this valuable cargo representing a considerable proportion of the UK's newest IC designs. The team comprises of; two one design Nethercotts, Alistair Warrens original Monkey, two Dragonflies, two Morrison1's and four Morrison2 designs.

 

With a whole range of supporting spare parts, repair facilities, deck chairs and the odd kitchen sink included, the team has been immaculately prepared by GBR Captain Alistair Warren to expect the unexpected with meticulous organisation. The boats are expected to arrive at the end of August and the team will be arriving anywhere between 3 weeks and 1 day before the start of the racing on 6th September.

 

The UK IC Team is sponsored by Williams Shipping and C12 Performance Boats.

 

The UK Team members;

 

GBR 265 Mark Goodchild, GBR278 Simon Allen, GBR308 Chris Hampe, GBR311 Perham Harding, GBR317 Alistair Warren©, GBR319 Colin Brown, GBR320 Rob Stebbing, GBR327 Rob Bell, GBR328 Phil Robin, GBR329 Robin Wood, GBR330 Steve Clarke

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Have heard from Peter Wells, who said the following

 

"I owned 29 Solitary Snipe: max dimensions with large self draining cockpit, could be quite exciting in a sea as the cockpit filled with gallons of water. It must be remembered that under the first international rule max weight was determined by a l x b formula, which gave a perceived advantage to minimum hulls, all but 23 and 24 all were built to max length. 30 Radiant was the first to be fully decked. "

 

and further on

 

"I doubt if 27 Anitra ever existed beyond someone’s dream." and "26 Zenith was imported from Scandinavia, no match against British designs."

 

The new facts that emerge are Brilliant 25, Gallant 28 and Solitary Snipe 29 were all different designs, so my assumption based on building dates was wrong. If the SA boat were Solitary Snipe then I am sure that Peter would have recognised it, and indeed if Anitra had ever been built Peter would have known this also.

 

This suggests the list of possibilities is 22,25 or 28. Peter did not mention whether either 25 or 28 had more than one centreboard, but I would see no reason why this would be the case. Lets hope the owner has sufficient interest to get back in touch so we can confirm which boat he owns!

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Jim C was looking for info on the Challenge Cup over on the IC forum. I'm not bright enough to figure out posting pictures there so I'll put one here instead.

 

This trophy has been competed for since 1886 - or '89, I can't remember which. We race for it now at Sugar Island. Every available bit of space has been covered with the hand engraved names of the winners, including Uffa Fox. I added the plaques to the base a few years ago so we have enough space for another fifty years or so of winners names.

 

 

post-16686-0-04104100-1406073513_thumb.jpeg

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post-21278-0-86108400-1406118116_thumb.jpg

 

It took an entire 40mins to load the Australian team in the container headed to the Worlds... thankfully we got the boat in the box before the rain pelted down..

 

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Bonus on the rain!

Looking forward to seeing the Acrobat!

 

Farm team finally getting serious after everyone else in the world has shipped.

New North sails arrived yesterday.

We spent the spring working with Mike Marshall and North's hot shit design software to take a step forward with the sails. They are quite different from the pattern we have been using for the past 15 years. Notably the jibs are larger and the mains are smaller. The CFD tells us this should be faster. It seems to be the case in the testing we have done, but you don't really know until race day. They look hot....

Mike Costello's "Cookie Monster" USA 228 is representing the Nethercott division. Mile rebuilt the seat and carriage this winter, has new blades and a new rig. "Cookie" is out of the same mold that built some of the fastest reaching canoes ever.....

 

I'm just about to say "Kaito" ( USA 241) is fully prepped to become SWE106 and Ola's little yellow friend for the duration..

Dave's new boat, "Dance Commander" USA 256 has been launched and seems pretty damn quick.

This the first of the "Gaijin" designs. Dave built it almost completely out plywood with limited use of carbon fiber to prove a point. Finished at 51kg is plenty impressive but a bit more fragile than a composite boat. But there is well under a grand of material in the hull and deck.

"Witzelsucht", USA 249 has been refinished and re- sliding seated. Willy needs to get his ass out of the office chair and onto the seat.

Next up is to get Smoke ( USA 250) reworked for the old guy.

Then all I need to do is remember how to tack.

SHC

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Jim C was looking for info on the Challenge Cup over on the IC forum. I'm not bright enough to figure out posting pictures there so I'll put one here instead.

 

This trophy has been competed for since 1886 - or '89, I can't remember which. We race for it now at Sugar Island. Every available bit of space has been covered with the hand engraved names of the winners, including Uffa Fox. I added the plaques to the base a few years ago so we have enough space for another fifty years or so of winners names.

 

 

this elegant piece of Comstock Load silverware will be on display at the Worlds, it's even more impressive in person.

The Challenge Cup has a long and storied past, with some repeat winners , the most being 11 including one reading " World War ,

No Races, 1917-18"

DWO

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thanks for the clarification on the trophy folks...

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Farm team finally getting serious after everyone else in the world has shipped.

New North sails arrived yesterday.

We spent the spring working with Mike Marshall and North's hot shit design software to take a step forward with the sails. They are quite different from the pattern we have been using for the past 15 years. Notably the jibs are larger and the mains are smaller. The CFD tells us this should be faster. It seems to be the case in the testing we have done, but you don't really know until race day. They look hot....

Any teaser pics of the new rags??

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Farm team finally getting serious after everyone else in the world has shipped.

New North sails arrived yesterday.

We spent the spring working with Mike Marshall and North's hot shit design software to take a step forward with the sails. They are quite different from the pattern we have been using for the past 15 years. Notably the jibs are larger and the mains are smaller. The CFD tells us this should be faster. It seems to be the case in the testing we have done, but you don't really know until race day. They look hot....

Any teaser pics of the new rags??

Just wondering what area the new jibs measure at for interest?

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Whilst turning the hull.......

post-906-0-92531100-1406835183_thumb.jpg

post-906-0-90531200-1406835201_thumb.jpg

post-906-0-46809300-1406835214_thumb.jpg

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This is a little off topic but this tread is an amazing source of boat building know how.

Is 1 layer of 200g carbon double bias each side of 5mm H80 Divinycell Foam core too light to be used on a false floor of a cherub?

The biggest gap between bulkheads is 500mm, I'm also looking at gluing and carboning a foam strip down each side of the floor as a foot chock.

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This is a little off topic but this tread is an amazing source of boat building know how.

Is 1 layer of 200g carbon double bias each side of 5mm H80 Divinycell Foam core too light to be used on a false floor of a cherub?

The biggest gap between bulkheads is 500mm, I'm also looking at gluing and carboning a foam strip down each side of the floor as a foot chock.

 

That's what I'm using on my ICs with a centerline web and no bulkheads. You could even go lighter on the inner skin. 200g/sqm will dent easily though. I use an EVA nonskid that hides the dents.

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On the subject of new builds:

 

USA 256 Dance Commander, my own contribution to the ruthless assault on boat price, performed far beyond my expectations in our regatta at Sugar Island. The boat is made out of 1/8th inch plywood with no composite skins and totally failed to explode in 25 knots. It didn't twist or bend and I totally failed to put my foot through the deck. In fact, it won the regatta. It's the fastest canoe I've ever sailed, actually. Final weight on completion was 50.9kg all up built to an unaltered Steve Clark Gaijin hull shape. More to come at the upcoming Worlds in San Fran. Anybody want a cheap plywood canoe done to a quick shape? I'd be really interested in firing out another. Video to come after it gets compiled.

DRC

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Cheap Canoe? I'll bite. How much is a new quick shape canoe. Rumor is under a grand in hull and deck. How much for a hull and deck? how much for a turn key ready to sail new rules IC?

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And how much to fit out a home build?

Spars are the biggest check to write, right?

That depends. Many Canoes seem to have an amazingly complex fitout. I shouldn't be altogether surprised if some manage to spend more at the chandlers that at the spar makers. And of course it depends on quite how much you do at home. Prices are such a moveable feast because of all the options. I'm not the best person to give an opinion though because I never cost my boats: I just make sure I don't spend more than I can afford each month.

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In loose terms:

Under a grand in the hull. (Wood!)

Two grand in the mast.

Two grand in sails.

Under a grand in the foils.

Roughly a grand in seat and carriage.

A grand or less in chandlery.

Five or six thousand in labor. If I'm working too slowly my wage per hour goes down.
That puts it at thirteen or fourteen grand for a turnkey boat. Seven or thereabouts up front if you wanted to do a kit. This all goes down if you give me an old boat with a good stick to cannibalize for pieces. A bunch of the cheap canoes out there have IM7 masts on them and are sold for less than the cost of the mast.


I've been thinking a good amount about kit boats since starting this project. If any home builder is being honest, he only wants to build a hull. Hulls are the floating "boat" part of the project. You name the hull, you sail the hull. The romance of boatbuilding is concentrated in hulls. Now that the canoe doesn't need to be made from a one-design mold, we can finally do kit building properly. You can build your own hull from scratch to your own designs or from plans. Seats and carriages are a bitch to build, especially first try without molds. The same goes for carbon tracks to a degree. Foils are only a touch better. So here's my idea on kits. Build a hull. I have seats carriages tracks and even foils for sale. You will get to the water WAY quicker without working on those parts. Trust me. They are a bitch to build. You know what's super easy to build? A light plywood pintailed boat from plans. If one person nudges me to do it, I'll get to work on making those plans.

Big D, I can give it more exposed wood than a vintage Thistle if you throw in a case of Sam Adams.

DRC

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looking forward to the video!

 

On the subject of new builds:

 

USA 256 Dance Commander, my own contribution to the ruthless assault on boat price, performed far beyond my expectations in our regatta at Sugar Island. The boat is made out of 1/8th inch plywood with no composite skins and totally failed to explode in 25 knots. It didn't twist or bend and I totally failed to put my foot through the deck. In fact, it won the regatta. It's the fastest canoe I've ever sailed, actually. Final weight on completion was 50.9kg all up built to an unaltered Steve Clark Gaijin hull shape. More to come at the upcoming Worlds in San Fran. Anybody want a cheap plywood canoe done to a quick shape? I'd be really interested in firing out another. Video to come after it gets compiled.

DRC

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In loose terms:

Under a grand in the hull. (Wood!)

Two grand in the mast.

Two grand in sails.

Under a grand in the foils.

Roughly a grand in seat and carriage.

A grand or less in chandlery.

Five or six thousand in labor. If I'm working too slowly my wage per hour goes down.

That puts it at thirteen or fourteen grand for a turnkey boat. Seven or thereabouts up front if you wanted to do a kit. This all goes down if you give me an old boat with a good stick to cannibalize for pieces. A bunch of the cheap canoes out there have IM7 masts on them and are sold for less than the cost of the mast.

 

I've been thinking a good amount about kit boats since starting this project. If any home builder is being honest, he only wants to build a hull. Hulls are the floating "boat" part of the project. You name the hull, you sail the hull. The romance of boatbuilding is concentrated in hulls. Now that the canoe doesn't need to be made from a one-design mold, we can finally do kit building properly. You can build your own hull from scratch to your own designs or from plans. Seats and carriages are a bitch to build, especially first try without molds. The same goes for carbon tracks to a degree. Foils are only a touch better. So here's my idea on kits. Build a hull. I have seats carriages tracks and even foils for sale. You will get to the water WAY quicker without working on those parts. Trust me. They are a bitch to build. You know what's super easy to build? A light plywood pintailed boat from plans. If one person nudges me to do it, I'll get to work on making those plans.

 

Big D, I can give it more exposed wood than a vintage Thistle if you throw in a case of Sam Adams.

 

DRC

Pics?

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Backing up a step. You stated it was super easy to build a light plywood pintailed boat. So how much for a hull and deck. Doesn't need to be final finished. I can just picture it now, David's new stiff woody. How much?

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Ok I don't think I got my point across entirely. The pintail boat floating about in my head these days is a kit theoretically simple enough to build in your living room (provided you have a window wide enough to push it out of). The point is that with nice plywood and good geometry you can save yourself a helluva lot of complexity, cost and specialized tooling in the build. I'm not exactly pumped about the idea of selling kit boats in their completed form because the whole point would be to home build it. That said, I have a hard time believing that I couldn't whip up a pintail kitboat hull sealed with the deck on for say five grand. I really don't know since the whole point of the idea was to radically simplify the first time home build process and reduce materials costs by increasing labor.

 

The stiff woody that I will gladly sell a raw hull of is Dance Commander (Steve Clark 'Gaijin' design) , which requires a huge complicated hull jig. I'd be glad to whip out a hull with deck attached and tracks installed for say under six grand. The first hull was full of learning experiences and took a while but I'm confident that I can get increasingly faster (cheaper) with each shot at it. For anybody interested, I'm free to build after worlds this september.

DRC

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You have heaps of time to pump out at least 5 boats between now and then ;)... Practice for a Worlds is way over rated lol....

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Hey Dave,

Sorry Dave. I did miss the point entirely. I thought a lot of work had gone into a "huge complicated hull jig." That jig I thought was a close match to the hull shape that won the last two world championships. By torturing plywood, under $1000 worth, into that shape I thought would take far less time and cost than to build a boat in carbon. If the whole point was to "radically simplify the first time home build" i"m out. To think that I could build a boat in my living room, at 50KG, that could compete with a carbon cored boat of Chris Maas is just insane. Let the arms race continue. Living room is full of furniture. Carry on.

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Big D,

Building a stressed ply hull without a jig is not hard. This http://www.internationalcanoe.yachting.org.au/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-10043-0-0-0&sID=299282 is what I did 8 years ago and its a similar method to what Steve and his family have been building since. The shape is not unlike Chris' boats except for the stern which is the easiest part to change. If you are serious you might just get it built in the next few weeks, add your old rig and go race with the other big boys. Building it as well as Chris does and sailing as well as Chris does is a completly different challenge.

Dave and Steve are much more dedicated to the class than I am and will help anyone get sailing an IC, so take what they say and offer as genuine and in the best interest of the class. Design wise they are at least 6 years advanced on my Hollow Log for starters.

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I personally would be a huge fan of a kit boat, provided there was someone out there willing to produce the tough bits (e.g. seat/carriage/foils).

 

When I dove into building my boat, I really had no idea what I was up against, and certainly got an education from many Canoe enthusiasts on the details. Knowing what I know now.... the full build, for the amateur, is pretty hard!

 

What we ought to think about is ways to get fresh blood on fast boats. Say a guy buys a Nethercott for a grand because it's the most knots for his buck and he's broke (see: Me, 2006). A few years later he can tack and gybe without dying, he's got a few more bucks, and he's looking to upgrade, but he probably also has a wife and/or kids and less free time. He could buy a carriage, a seat, and mabye foils, buy a kit a build a hull, and strip the rig and gear off his old boat to make a new rules boat....viola. Not the fastest, probably, but waaaaay cheaper and easier than doing the full bit all alone.

 

Though the full Maas bit is pretty cool.

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Thanks, TalonF4U. It's entirely the young and broke that I'm trying to facilitate. As far as class building goes, it seems way more important to get a good deal out to people who have more years to give and knees to ruin. That's the idea behind the kit build and I think it's even more easy and straightforward for the nethercott upgrade than what you've described. Seats, carriages and foils can actually be retrofitted to new hulls. So really a kit hull is the minimum upgrade. For that, the performance boost is astronomical.

To Big D's point about hullshape and development, sailing in a mixed fleet all these years has shown me some good news. Here's my take on the world of hulls and mods: A well tuned nethercott sailed VERY well can get near the front of any canoe fleet. Winning would be really tough but Mike Costello managed to snag one of the trophies at Sugar this year in a nethercott. So development has not made tactics obsolete. A light hull, almost regardless of shape, gets you another step along the way. If Mike had been in a 50kg pintailed boat I would have been in a knock down drag out fight for every finish. He's a tactically superior sailor and, plainly put, a tactically superior sailor can win enough of the time in a light boat. For a lot of people I know, having 99% of the speed is good enough especially if it can be got in a sneakily cheap and creative way. Stealing a stick, seat, foils and sails from and old canoe, modding the carriage and putting together a plywood kit hull gets you fully into the conversation for practically zilch. It's not for everybody of course, but it seems to be worth a shot. Older people with significant disposable income really should go for an advanced carbon boat because artists of Chris maas and Andy P's caliber should be supported and to a degree it's totally worth it. But there is nothing other-worldly about carbon, nor is there any cascade of obselecence occurring in hullshapes as development continues. My Dad is biting at my heels in Kaito (SHC Josie design, 2006) during speed tests.

 

I'm kinda chomping at the bit to give it a shot so we'll be seeing weather I'm right or not at some point.

DRC

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Dave-- I plan on taking you up on your offer, just for the hell of it, but it might be a couple of years.... I'm moving to Virginia in January and the size of my shop at my as-yet-unpurchased house will determine the size of my ambitions.... I'll go scoop up a Nethercott with a carbon stick out of a boneyard somewhere and do the new hull thing as a testbed for some other ideas I have!

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A well tuned Nethercott sailed VERY well can get near the front of any canoe fleet.

We can put some numbers on that. In the UK Portsmouth Yardstick scheme a Nethercott came in at 905, and a new boat seems to run in about 870. These numbers effectively relate to the time taken to sail an unspecified distance round a course, so the new boats are around 4% faster.

From work I've done on evaluating handicap performance front to back in just about any Champs fleet is around 25%, and distribution is a skewed curve, so a typical mid fleet sailor like me is about 10% off a Championship winner. 4% is about the difference between a Champs winner and a regular top end of fleet sailor who doesn't win many races.

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In loose terms:

Under a grand in the hull. (Wood!)

Two grand in the mast.

Two grand in sails.

Under a grand in the foils.

Roughly a grand in seat and carriage.

A grand or less in chandlery.

Five or six thousand in labor. If I'm working too slowly my wage per hour goes down.

That puts it at thirteen or fourteen grand for a turnkey boat. Seven or thereabouts up front if you wanted to do a kit. This all goes down if you give me an old boat with a good stick to cannibalize for pieces. A bunch of the cheap canoes out there have IM7 masts on them and are sold for less than the cost of the mast.

 

I've been thinking a good amount about kit boats since starting this project. If any home builder is being honest, he only wants to build a hull. Hulls are the floating "boat" part of the project. You name the hull, you sail the hull. The romance of boatbuilding is concentrated in hulls. Now that the canoe doesn't need to be made from a one-design mold, we can finally do kit building properly. You can build your own hull from scratch to your own designs or from plans. Seats and carriages are a bitch to build, especially first try without molds. The same goes for carbon tracks to a degree. Foils are only a touch better. So here's my idea on kits. Build a hull. I have seats carriages tracks and even foils for sale. You will get to the water WAY quicker without working on those parts. Trust me. They are a bitch to build. You know what's super easy to build? A light plywood pintailed boat from plans. If one person nudges me to do it, I'll get to work on making those plans.

 

Big D, I can give it more exposed wood than a vintage Thistle if you throw in a case of Sam Adams.

 

DRC

Pics?

So I got a bit vein and waited until my pre-worlds re-spray. Here she is. Looks a bit like a flying fish in profile upside down.

Right side up pics later when I trust the paint.

 

DRC

post-100627-0-56452400-1409091778_thumb.png

post-100627-0-85527100-1409091781_thumb.png

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Ppffff, close enough Dave. I m a big fan of approximate spelling too :)

Nice looking boat.

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That's V-A-I-N Dave, but never mind.

Yr Dad.

Just signifies he's bloody proud of the boat (sorry, I'll get my coat)

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“It's a damn poor mind that can't think of more then one way to spell a word.” *

That's V-A-I-N Dave, but never mind.

Yr Dad.

* attribution to many people to know who really said it!!

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Very pretty. I like the bit of wood showing in the transom.

 

When do we get to see her with sails trimmed in the same dark green to match?

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“It's a damn poor mind that can't think of more then one way to spell a word.” *

That's V-A-I-N Dave, but never mind.

Yr Dad.

* attribution to many people to know who really said it!!

That's "T-O-O" many people, acatguy.

Just sayin'

You can think of many ways to spell a word without writing down the wrong one.

It's a matter of craftsmanship, I normally wouldn't comment, but as Dad and the one who paid for Dave's Excellent Education, I feel it is my duty to humiliate him whenever he makes a trivial and easily avoidable spelling or syntax error.

SHC

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Not due to start till the 6th. There's an event microsite, and this is the news page

http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/8306#_newsroom

There's also a thread on the Canoe forum here

http://www.intcanoe.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1515&sid=d9f3df85dbf785105839be270416373f&start=30

People are there and sailing, and there are a couple of videos linked...

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Worlds update & pics?

 

KB

The news in brief.

Final measurement checks for the last of the 34 canoes this morning followed by the Practice Race. Naturally few starters finish the course but defending Champ Chris Maas served notice that he intends to retain the crown. 3 time Champ Robin Wood sailing smooth as ever was first at the finish , followed by fellow GBR. Team member Alistair Warren and Mikey Radziejowski of the USA.

Also showing good speed were Lt. Steve Gay USN, and Peter Ullman of Germany.

Ther are 5 returning Current and former World champions racing and 11 of the 34 are returning veterans of the '93 Worlds also sailed at RYC. But if you think its a bunch of old guys on the water, a large part of the upcoming talent wasn't even in kindergarten last time.

The usual opening ceremony , complete with flag raising and anthems and speaches was followed by the competitors briefing , dinner and videos of the day and then the start of the first boat repairs.

First race start is at 12:30 tomorrow, let the Hurting Begin!

DWO

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At the risk of embarrassing a fellow sailor, and that NEVER happens on SA, a Little video from yesterday's

IC World Championship Opening Ceremony .

One of the Canadians who's initials are B.L. Went for a check ride hoping to make it back for the Opening,

He made it but nobody could scripted his entrance. You can't make up this stuff!

 

 

DWO

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some really great racing today. Challenging conditions for the sailors with breeze in the mid-teens but a nasty chop making tacks very challenging.

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Del, is that how you guys generally tow your canoes?

Only on the most dire or expedient way for a short distance.

Boats with full batten sails don't tow well they tend to want to accelerate past the tow boat. So it's main down before the tow line pulls taught , either that or it's a very very slow ride.

Today was challenging.

The RC stated they were starting on time so everyone launched early, only to have the wind will in so we reached around for an hour before the start , almost as long and as much effort as a Race!

At the start it was a solid 15 on a high tide. The first watcher mark saw Lt. Gay in the lead . Defending Champ Chris Maas lead at the gybe and then launched into a commanding lead. Lots of place changes on the ensuing reach , beat run and beat, and most not due to capsizes.it was a day where one small slip or mosque on a tack bear away or missing an ease of the sheet over a wave could mean the difference. It did for Chris at the last weather mark, when his grip on the sheet failed and he crashed into the Weather mark hooking the anchor line on his shroud. , with chris out the day belonged to the young, Mikey Radziejowski, a youth Americas Cub veteran blazed to the front and took the gun followed by Steve Gay and Alistair Warren.

The RC reported a sustained 20kn with a few higher gusts. Some thought the going a bit difficult but the locals in first and second begged to differ. "You should be here when it ebbs!" They were heard to say.

Another One race day tomorrow with 2 scheduled for Tues. The weather forecast is favorable so well see what the leader board looks like then.

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I had the pleasure of setting the weather mark and standing by the last couple of days - too bad work interferes or I'd be back there this week. Great guys and great boats. All the following is my own interpretation...

A bit about the racing. Chris Maas was hundreds of meters ahead of Mikey coming to the last weather mark. You'd have to ask him, but I think he let the main out a bit too soon on the bear away or didn't scoot in fast enough, and his hiking board hit the chop and in he went. What was cruel is that the ebb/wind kept him right at the weather mark, and his sail ended up under the mark. We use a small mushroom anchor as a sentinel (gets the rode down so it doesn't trip boats going by) and we use a small snapshackles to connect the sentinel to the bottom of the mark. Somehow his rigging caught that snap shackle and got hooked. After quite a bit of work (and having the fleet round him as the new mark) he got the boat free. Unfortunately, somewhere in there his wire halyard broke (just wire for the top couple inches with a halyard lock). He tried to lash it up but couldn't get it up all the way. The chop was making his life somewhat difficult. With the main maybe a foot from the top of the rig, he retired.

IIRC we had 22 finishers of 33 starters. The hardest maneuver for the guys seemed to be tacking in the chop. It wasn't nuking, but it was choppy, the ebb was setting up pretty well towards lap 3. I'd say the sailors got what they wanted by choosing RYC - the bay delivered.

The final maneuver for the day was a tack or a jibe after the finish. I'd say 75% of the boats that tried to tack capsized. Those who "wore ship" mostly survived with a couple exceptions.

probably the most interesting thing to watch were the round down capsizes. They were violent enough, and the hiking boards buoyant enough, that the rig accelerated down, the boat literally jumps out of the water as it starts to float on the hiking board and the bow. I'd say the main hull comes 2 feet out of the water at the board, and the stern is maybe 4 feet off the water for a second before it all crashes back down.


edit: and one last thing - the boats were over standing the weather mark by quite a bit, maybe even a hundred yards. Story in the park after was that the chop was making it impossible to find a good place to tack, and since a bad tack would be a capsize, over standing was the lesser of 2 evils. They also had a different definition of a good tack. A capsize was acceptable as long as the boat was pointed the right way after recovery...

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I'm going to try and put a digest of news and links I get on the 2014 worlds page at http://www.intcanoe.org/2014worlds.php

 

Photos would be very welcome. Bilge's are the only ones I've come across so far.

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.

 

...'Flash'...thanks for some coverage....interesting to hear what it takes to stop the yellow boat! :blink:

 

http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/8306#_newsroom

 

......looks like some tough sailing going on--lots of bings&bangs so far I suppose?........I know the fleet's not getting younger,,but it'd be great if someone could get off the ice long enough to do a write-up! ;):P

 

 

 

....what's with all the 'Clarke's in the fleet' was thinking our anarchist hero had turned countries -and- turtle! :mellow:

 

 

....

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.

 

...'Flash'...thanks for some coverage....interesting to hear what it takes to stop the yellow boat! :blink:

 

http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/8306#_newsroom

 

......looks like some tough sailing going on--lots of bings&bangs so far I suppose?........I know the fleet's not getting younger,,but it'd be great if someone could get off the ice long enough to do a write-up! ;):P

 

 

 

....what's with all the 'Clarke's in the fleet' was thinking our anarchist hero had turned countries -and- turtle! :mellow:

 

 

....

It's a small fleet but we seem to have a ridiculously high percentage of sailors named Eric , Steve or Chris.

Gets worse when the are 2 Steve Clark's fortunately the one with the GBR on his sail spells his with an e at the end.

More details on the races tomorrow on the Lay Day, far too beat to contemplate anything but an early sack time.

DWO

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Official worlds photographer at http://www.rockskipper.com/. She's got some great images in three (so far) large galleries there. They're also linked from the Worlds news digest page at http://www.intcanoe.org/2014worlds.php

 

We did suggest that the Steve Clarke(e)s officially change their names to Steve (USA) Clark and Steve (GBR) Clarke, but they don't seem keen...

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