stinky

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Rigs, I think you have some good questions there. I tried a single sail (with a stayed mast) on Monkey (all be it not very well done) before I brought it to the Oz worlds where I had a main and jib. The problem seems to be up wind with the single sail, its not as quick and you don't make it up down wind, although it is quicker. Had real bad problems in a strong wind, just too much in one sail, real beast. It would be interesting to try and get rid of the stays but still have a jib, I think you would pay with a heavier mast which might be worse that having the wires.... have not seen any one try that but have seen it on a yacht somewhere...

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If you are going to spend time and money rerigging your IC, you might consider adapting it to a standard IC rig. Here's why:

 

1) Your rig is unique. There is only general advice for you when you need it. No one has considerable experience. You are alone.

2) You are up against IC's that have, probably not identical, but quite similar rigs. Their rigs have years and lots of hours of optimization. The range of variation is small enough that if you are, for example, slow upwind in chop, a skilled ICer can tell that you need less downhaul. No such advice is available to you.

3) Standard rigging is a known item. Mast placement, spreader sweep, length are known. Sails are known, within fairly small amounts. You get these benefits.

4) You can source cheaper used parts to get going on a budget. Sails, mast, and running rigging.

5) It is likely to be cheapest way for you to get a competitive IC.

 

This is coming from someone that appreciates unique things. I have a car that is unique. I love it. I work on it to make it faster. But I would never race it and expect it to perform well. There is zero body of knowledge for me to lean on and thus too much experimentation for me to succeed.

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"Can you do shroudless and still have a jib? Because I really like having a jib…"

 

 

 

 

 

I had a cruising boat with a unstayed carbon mast and a jib. It worked well but needed running backstays to get the sag out of the forestay. That would give you something to do when tacking.

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"Can you do shroudless and still have a jib? Because I really like having a jib…"

 

 

 

 

 

I had a cruising boat with a unstayed carbon mast and a jib. It worked well but needed running backstays to get the sag out of the forestay. That would give you something to do when tacking.

Spar forestay solves this problem. Keeps the jib luff tension load out of the mast. Better still, an aerofoil spar forestay with a camber control arm at the bottom and a good deal of chord in the airfoil....

 

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I think the upwind issue of the Log was maybe because I put the centreboard case too far aft. It got lee helm when sailed dead upright.

 

But if you inclined to put in a new case Stephan, I think I would move it right forward, LE about 300 aft of mast socket, so you could try the jib. Especially as you have already the small 8mSq main and the jib from the Nethercott. If that does not work out, you could then modify the hull to take chainplates and shrouds, and be almost back to what is IC normal.

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Thanks for all the responses, a lot to think about, I will experiment next sailing season with a few different things and we'll see how it all goes :-) good thing I have a few Nethercott backups if things go bad...I guess the good news is I have officially been told I am moving at the end of the year to live somewhere where there is a constant 25 knot sea breeze every afternoon with flat water, so hopefully my sailing will improve further with decent wind

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Thanks for all the responses, a lot to think about, I will experiment next sailing season with a few different things and we'll see how it all goes :-) good thing I have a few Nethercott backups if things go bad...I guess the good news is I have officially been told I am moving at the end of the year to live somewhere where there is a constant 25 knot sea breeze every afternoon with flat water, so hopefully my sailing will improve further with decent wind

 

Does this mean that you be assimilated as a "Sandgroper"?

 

:blink:

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Hot (literally) damn!

 

There must be wind somewhere near you, and I think we all want to see her swim. Come on man, I need a fix...

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Yea, freakin awesome, videos plz.....like we'll ever see that. Meant in a most respected world champ builder kind of way.

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Just waiting for wind.

 

It would appear if I was able to some how work out how to get a boat to the next Worlds it would have to be a new one to come close to this....

Or get the angle grinder out and cut a whole bunch of boat away squeeze it back together (one way to get some weight out of the hull, the trick will be moving my rig aft as mine currently a long way forward..

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Chris, Wonderful as usual.

I see the mainsheet has moved to the front of the carriage, which could simplify tacking. But I can not make out what the white rope is just below the boom from the gooseneck back to the carbon fitting just below the vang attachment?

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Chris, Wonderful as usual.

I see the mainsheet has moved to the front of the carriage, which could simplify tacking. But I can not make out what the white rope is just below the boom from the gooseneck back to the carbon fitting just below the vang attachment?

Thanks Phil. That's the jib sheet. It's hard to make it out but it goes to a swivel cleat just behind the vang. The jib sheet is tied to a red bridle that goes to the seat ends and has a bungee take up inside the seat.

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Which works brilliant, as I did it to my oldie, only way to fly!

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Based on some feedback from about 100 years of sailing experience at the PCCs recently (you know who you are...) some tweaked concept pictures.

 

Updates from my previous concept include:

1. Lower COG

2. Fatter back end with 45degree stern for more volume way back aft (albeit keeping the "pintail" a little bit because I like it and I want to)

3. Reduced Rocker because they told me to...sometimes when wise men speak you should listen, I think this os one of those times

 

Some things I want to keep in the design because I like them:

1. Really long point bow

2. BMS right back aft with nothing but pointedness fwd of it

3. Hollow Log Style Stern

4. Rig Aft (mast at 2.9m from bow - feel free to tell me why this won't work)

5. Streamlined without shroud winglets

 

Things still to solve:

Will it float and if it does how well will it float with 85KG on the sliding seat and the limited range of FWD-Aft Carriage movement?

Where does daggerboard go?

Erring on side of shrouds with narrow shroud base, with supported mast foot as opposed to unstayed rig.

Thinking of a rig with a slightly bigger Jib fwd (~3+ sqm) to keep some of the E from the CE fwd.

 

Mk 3 Port Beam

Mk3 STBD Bow

Mk3 Port Quarter

Mk3 STBD QTR Underside

Mk3 Stern

Mk3 Top

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I tried to have a look at the photos but don't have permission :(

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Hey Geoff.... I have no idea why pics are not showing up.... I will try something else...

 

insert comments from my previous post to go with comments....

 

Mk%203%20Port%20Beam.jpg

Mk3%20Stern.jpg

Mk3%20Top.jpg

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One of the interesting compromises in the rule is that the further back one moves the max waterline beam the blunnter the stern has to get, which I suspect is one of the drivers for the 45 degree transom option. In my opinion, from watching the water flow round it, the Nethercott stern is on the borderline of being too blunt to act as a real canoe stern. The Log, on the other hand, I imagine probably does.

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Will you be able to slide the seat far enough forward in light air? The straight sections of the gunwales start pretty far back. The transom has a cool look to it.

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Will you be able to slide the seat far enough forward in light air? The straight sections of the gunwales start pretty far back. The transom has a cool look to it.

My thoughts are, and based on only my thoughts and not maths or modelling, that with such a pointy and long bow, there isn't much mass up fwd and there is not much volume either, which makes me think that it wouldn't take much crew fwd movement to move the cog fwd, especially with less volume fwd, there is less need to move fwd... I think I will need to build a model to see how this works, or a full scale boat...

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One of the interesting compromises in the rule is that the further back one moves the max waterline beam the blunnter the stern has to get, which I suspect is one of the drivers for the 45 degree transom option. In my opinion, from watching the water flow round it, the Nethercott stern is on the borderline of being too blunt to act as a real canoe stern. The Log, on the other hand, I imagine probably does.

 

Advice from some people I respect is that I needed more volume aft, if you see my first concept, I had a much pointier stern, this concept brings the cockpit section parallel all the way to maximum allowed by the 45 degree transom, specifically to increase the volume and therefore buoyancy aft for the days when it is blowy and weight aft is required to stop the bow from, "going down the mine" the log has a similar albeit pointier higher freeboard stern, and buoyancy aft has never been a problem on it

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We should have talked about this more when you were here!

 

Just kidding, that looks really interesting. Good progress is being made. FWIW my boat has about 80mm of rocker and I try to keep the chines above the LWL so they don't drag in the transition from displacement to whatever's next - semi displacement? You have very little volume below the chines so they will be well under water. I suspect this boat will plane like a crazy thing but may suffer some in moderate wind because of the above sticky chine problem and in light wind because you can't get that big area aft out of the water. Moving forward will just put the bow under water.

 

My advice? Keep the radical pointy bow and pin taily stern, just because you like it. Add some volume and rocker to pull those chines out of the water (unless you want a heavy air centric boat).

 

I'd guess with a 3m(!) jib your daggerboard LE will be about 450mm behind the mast. Maybe a bit more because your rig is so far aft.

 

Beware of "expert" opinion like mine. Remember what I told you about the IC builder who took me aside before the McRae worlds to patiently explain that while String Theory might look cool it really would not able able to handle any kind of wind and chop.

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Thanks Chris, I think I agree on getting a little more volume down low so I appreciate your insight, it doesn't quite "look" right in this latest one... I think I will tweak it a little more, maybe to the same depth below the waterline as my previous concept, but with a different rocker profile instead of a big lump at the mast from the first concept.

 

I liked your story about your string theory design and the feedback you received...

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The rules say:

 

9 CENTER-BOARD

a) The center-board shall not project more than 1000mm from the underside of the hull when fully lowered.
B)The center-board shall be attached so that it cannot normally fall out of its housing and when free of the hull shall float horizontally

on the water.
c) The center-board shall be capable of being raised while sailing so as not to project below the underside of the hull.
d) There are no restrictions on the design or material of the center-board other than the rules above.

 

Scenario A below is a no-brainer.

 

Anyone care to comment if scenario B is legal? (and yes I know how to use trig to determine length but that isn't the point here), i.e. is the "projection" the vertical projection?

 

 

Slide1_1.jpg

Slide2.jpg

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I would say it depends, is the board able to "swing" through an arc when at any time it may "project" beyond that 1000mm measurement? If so, then what stops it from doing so in a race?

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Ok, looking again at your picture, and this might seem like a stupid question, but are we looking side-on or head-on (swept back vs canting side-to-side)?

 

Either way, in math, projection from a surface is generally measured normal to the surface, so "projecting from the hull" to me implies a measurement perpendicular away from the hull surface (whether that means normal to the water level when floating on its lines, or actually the hull, which thanks to rocker might not be the same angle throughout, I leave to somebody else to discuss).

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Thanks, that is sort of my interpretation as well,oh and yes, it's a poor not to scale representation side on

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I don't know for sure, but I would guess that it is a vertical measurement. Similar to the mast height measurement. So you could do it. I just don't see why you would.

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I was thinking as a mechanism to put the daggerboard CE exactly where you want it, without having to comprise on hull weight by adding a long cartridge channel to the hull, while maximising surface area in the side plane, minimising drag through profile and perhaps reducing draft , but not removing the requirement to right after capsize...maybe also putting the daggerboard closer to the seat, for some reason I find it harder to right the boats when the seat is way aft of the daggerboard

 

This is the crazy stuff that keeps me awake at night... Stupid IC's...I am way out of my depth...

And also because blow torching lasers can't be allowed to exceed this thread

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But the level of decorum is SO much higher on this thread, better to keep it a secret I think. ;)

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project (v) to stick out beyond the edge of something

 

My gut feeling is that while one might be able to chop logic to make scenario b pass, it might not survive the next rule clarification. However, perhaps a more serious objection is to consider what happens above the water when you attempt to remove the daggerboard.

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Well that's easy... Capsize, the rules don't say anything about not being allowed to capsize when removing the daggerboard. I tried to remove the daggerboard on the log once, bam, capsize...didn't try that again....

 

Bear in mind, I'm not trying to rule cheat, just interested in exploring some options...and if the options don't comply with the rules, then they won't move past postulation...

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Moth centreboards have all been going in from the bottom for 10 years now.

 

But centreboards with aft rake tend to flex differently to normal. They twist and wash out the tip which is like gybing your board in the wrong direction, lots of drag and loss of pointing ability. Carbon foils may bend less than timber ones but they still bend under load.

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A thought, if you're going to look at raked foils, take a look at "weed" foils for windsurfers. They've spent plenty of time making sure those work and bend in the "right" ways, so it might be a good starting place (or I might be spewing nonsense).

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I was thinking as a mechanism to put the daggerboard CE exactly where you want it, without having to comprise on hull weight by adding a long cartridge channel to the hull, while maximising surface area in the side plane, minimising drag through profile and perhaps reducing draft , but not removing the requirement to right after capsize...maybe also putting the daggerboard closer to the seat, for some reason I find it harder to right the boats when the seat is way aft of the daggerboard

 

This is the crazy stuff that keeps me awake at night... Stupid IC's...I am way out of my depth...

And also because blow torching lasers can't be allowed to exceed this thread

Yeah, I get out of my depth in this thread sometimes too.

 

I don't think you will get any reduction in drag for the same area. Even if the chord measured perpendicular to the LE is less the chord the water flow sees will be the same as the vertical board. Then there's spanwise flow introduced that probably is not a good thing. If you're thinking to move the center of lateral resistance by raising and lowering the board, that changes your surface area in ways you might not want.

 

When my seat carriage is all the way forward it overlaps the TE of the board and is a comfy step from board to seat when righting. Hollow Log is probably quite different though?

 

Keep up the innovative thought! It's just what we need. And for me it's one of the best things about this class.

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Intent of the rule is that you pull the board out from the top.

The Moth solution is not acceptable, or practical on a boat the size of an IC.

 

Rule 9 limits the draft of the IC not the span of the board. So one could have a board that was 3 meters long but was at such an acute angle that it was never more than 1000 mm below the hull skin.

If you could pull it up through the hull, it would be legal.

Slow.

But Legal.

SHC

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rule 9c stops the moth solution of a board inserted from below the hull. We could ask a moth sailor to show us how to remove the dagger board whilst sailing! Would be fun to see them try!

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I've been occasionally exchanging emails with the seller of a mid-60s cold molded Avalon for a year now. Working up to drive the 75 miles to go see it.

Been hesitating to pull the trigger on this deal since that boat is only a month's worth of lunches cheaper than 189 "Wings" or 222 "Sock Puppet" from the NA class website.

 

Whatever I buy will be mostly for fun and maybe go chase a fleet around a course if there is an event within a few 100 miles of home (making it hard for someone else to score DFL)

 

Should I just forget about the old boat close to home?

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You should get the boat that best suits your situation and is easy to get on the water. I don't mean easy to sail necessarily - but easy to convince you to sail, so you do it more often. I have my nethercott rigged up in a less than fast configuration because it makes my time from trailer to water about 20 minutes quicker... so I go sailing more. But other than that... definitely the IC's I think either of the two you mentioned are great value, the price listed on the website certainly does not match the amount of fun they would deliver...

 

But then I am also a fan of old wooden boats...

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NC canoeist? I've got a new rules boat and a carbon Nethercott in VB...come on down.

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Will head to VB if I get an IC or not. I try not to miss VA Governor's Cup at Ware River in August and the Hampton Roads Challenge in Sept.

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Talon - I'd love to talk. I'm a mothie in VB, been off the water for several months due to a move to thinner water (western Lynnhaven) and lack of a decent dock (working on that bit).

 

Always thought a canoe would be a fun sidestep if I can't safely sail a foiler at the new house. PM sent.

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Hell yeah, see you on the water Brian.

 

When I was just starting out in Canoes, I sailed a Moth once and had a pretty good time until I turned it into a big pile of carbon splinters. I'm kind of curious how it would go now on the Moth. I'm a decade older/slower/more injury prone but it is mixed with five years of sailing new rules ICs around SF Bay.... we'll have to do a boat swap. Come up to Newport and race the IC NAs with us?

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Come up to Newport and race the IC NAs with us?

Good idea. The Talon has a pretty seriously quick yet docile trial boat that would be perfect for that job.

 

In other news, we just raced the wickford regatta this weekend. I got a day away from work beforehand and spent the time cobbling a big T-foil rudder together. Needless to say Mike 'racing this guy is like trying to hold back the sea' Costello won, but I'm not sidelining this T-foil any time soon. Don't worry, it's cheap and legal. I'm not up to anything sinister.

 

DRC

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Dave,

 

Are 189 and 222 still available?

222 has first refusal to a guy in Michigan. 189 is near you and has all the bits. Buy it.

 

DRC

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Sad that I couldn't be racing canoes this weekend, NAs going off in Newport and Europa in Pwllheli (sizing it up for the worlds?), lots of canoes out strutting their stuff this weekend.

 

I want pictures of everything from this weekend, make all the rest of us on Dinghy Anarchy jealous.

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Sad that I couldn't be racing canoes this weekend, NAs going off in Newport and Europa in Pwllheli (sizing it up for the worlds?), lots of canoes out strutting their stuff this weekend.

 

I want pictures of everything from this weekend, make all the rest of us on Dinghy Anarchy jealous.

 

Ask and you shall receive. Photos from IC North Americans this weekend courtesy of Luka Bartulovic and Sailing Shot!

post-25151-0-04456500-1473099503_thumb.jpg

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post-25151-0-63593400-1473099570_thumb.jpg

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Sad that I couldn't be racing canoes this weekend, NAs going off in Newport and Europa in Pwllheli (sizing it up for the worlds?), lots of canoes out strutting their stuff this weekend.

 

I want pictures of everything from this weekend, make all the rest of us on Dinghy Anarchy jealous.

 

Ask and you shall receive. Photos from IC North Americans this weekend courtesy of Luka Bartulovic and Sailing Shot!

 

Results:

 

1) Mike Costello - USA 256 "Dance Commander - 1 2 2 1 (4) 2 - 8 pts

2) Dave Clark - USA 257 "Machette" - 7 (7) 5 2 1 1 - 16 pts

3) Todd Twigg - USA 247 "Groove Mooves" - 5 3 4 (7) 2 3 - 17 pts

4) Chris Maas - USA 259 "Black Betty" - 2 1 1 5 16 (16) - 25 pts

5) Willy Clark - USA 249 "Witzelschut" - 8 (9) 7 3 3 4 - 25 pts

6) Steve Gay - USA 245 "Hellcat" - 4 5 3 6 (16) 16 - 34 pts

7) Bill Beaver - USA 216 "Lust Puppet - 16 16 (16) 4 5 5 - 46 pts

8) Kenny Austin - USA 253 (CAN 39) - 3 4 9 (16) 16 16 - 48 pts

9) John Kells - USA 244 "Mayhem - 6 6 6 (16) 16 16 - 50 pts

10) Chris Converse - USA 250 "Smoke" - 10 8 8 (16) 16 16 - 58 pts

11) Russell Robinson - USA 228 "Cookie Monster" - 11 12 10 (16) 16 16 - 65 pts

12) Dave Breinig - USA 208 "NoGo55" - 12 11 11 (16) 16 16 - 66 pts

13) Bill Platt - USA 226 "Red Shift" - 9 10 16 (16) 16 16 - 67 pts

14) John Rawstron - USA 252 "Agent Orange" - (16) 16 16 16 16 16 - 80 pts

15) Willie Platt - USA 202 "Matilda" - (16) 16 16 16 16 16 - 80 pts

 

Day 2 was SUPER challenging, 25 gusting to 30 with just enormous gust, shifts, and lulls, so a number of guys stayed on shore. Still, it was terrific to have 15 boats at the farm being raced in some capacity. Really fun weekend.

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post-25151-0-55353900-1473100289_thumb.jpg

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The entire set of photos has been uploaded to http://sailingshot.com/2016/ic-north-americans

 

Looks like it was a pretty spectacular end to the racing

 

Stunning photos, beautiful boats. Can't help but note lots of smiling faces on participants. Now this is front page stuff!

 

As a sideline spectator and enthusiast of the class for well over 50 years (yeah, I'm an old bastard and grew up watching the early City Island fleet buzz around) I continue to be impressed by the ingenuity, creativity and passion that drives the group. The photos ducument what makes this thread so entertaining and informative.

 

Carry on.

 

By the way, if anyone knows of an old woodie IC in need of lots of love and a proper restoration, let me know. I would never intend to attempt to compete with today's engineering marvels, however they do deserve to be cared for and and put in the hands of appreciative caregivers and users.

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The entire set of photos has been uploaded to http://sailingshot.com/2016/ic-north-americans

 

Looks like it was a pretty spectacular end to the racing

 

Stunning photos, beautiful boats. Can't help but note lots of smiling faces on participants. Now this is front page stuff!

 

As a sideline spectator and enthusiast of the class for well over 50 years (yeah, I'm an old bastard and grew up watching the early City Island fleet buzz around) I continue to be impressed by the ingenuity, creativity and passion that drives the group. The photos ducument what makes this thread so entertaining and informative.

 

Carry on.

 

By the way, if anyone knows of an old woodie IC in need of lots of love and a proper restoration, let me know. I would never intend to attempt to compete with today's engineering marvels, however they do deserve to be cared for and and put in the hands of appreciative caregivers and users.

 

Or you could buy one of Dave's machete kits and build yourself a new-rules wood boat and go join in the racing...

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[

 

By the way, if anyone knows of an old woodie IC in need of lots of love and a proper restoration, let me know. I would never intend to attempt to compete with today's engineering marvels, however they do deserve to be cared for and and put in the hands of appreciative caregivers and users.

There is a 60s cold molded boat in central north carolina on the usa IC boats for sale forum. He still has it as of a month ago. I'll put up a pic he sent me later.

 

http://www.intcanoe.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1557&sid=04b878820f16940faee96d28544b92b3

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[

 

By the way, if anyone knows of an old woodie IC in need of lots of love and a proper restoration, let me know. I would never intend to attempt to compete with today's engineering marvels, however they do deserve to be cared for and and put in the hands of appreciative caregivers and users.

There is a 60s cold molded boat in central north carolina on the usa IC boats for sale forum. He still has it as of a month ago. I'll put up a pic he sent me later.

 

http://www.intcanoe.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1557&sid=04b878820f16940faee96d28544b92b3

 

 

Thank you sir.

 

I just joined the IC forum and upon acceptance will contact the owner.

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So Dave and Steve - your UFO is awesome...

 

I get that it is a recreational boat and I love it. If you ever get sales in Aus I would probably be interested...

 

But when I look at all the pictures of your UFO, all I see is a possible solution to my shroud-less rig problem, for retrofitting the log with a large main, or for a jib/main rig for my conceptual IC that has a really narrow shroud base.

 

Anyone care to comment on the feasibility? Lets say that Dave decided to sell "spare rigs" once the UFO gets off the ground, could I buy one and "bolt the rig" onto a narrow shroud base IC, add a 2.2m jib and sail around with a funky elegantly engineered rig on an IC and expect it to sail fast and point high?

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So Dave and Steve - your UFO is awesome...

 

I get that it is a recreational boat and I love it. If you ever get sales in Aus I would probably be interested...

 

But when I look at all the pictures of your UFO, all I see is a possible solution to my shroud-less rig problem, for retrofitting the log with a large main, or for a jib/main rig for my conceptual IC that has a really narrow shroud base.

 

Anyone care to comment on the feasibility? Lets say that Dave decided to sell "spare rigs" once the UFO gets off the ground, could I buy one and "bolt the rig" onto a narrow shroud base IC, add a 2.2m jib and sail around with a funky elegantly engineered rig on an IC and expect it to sail fast and point high?

 

The UFO rig is a really clever, well thought out piece of work. Dave and Steve will have a better Idea of how well the concept would work on an IC but my guess is that plugging the UFO rig into an IC wouldn't work well. Because the IC has immensely more righting moment I wouldn't think the mast is strong enough. And you'd still have trouble with a saggy forestay, I think. That brings us back to a jib luff spar. Which is worth considering I suppose though weight aloft is keenly felt in an IC.

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Stephan,

Yes, the UFO wishbone looks like the perfect fit for the Hollow Log. The diamonds are already there, get rid of the forestay and the forward strut, so all you need are two straight spars for the booms. Then work out how to get the mainsheet system working off the back of the boat.

The wishbone will unload a lot of stuff, free up the mast bearing, and reduce bending of the mast. Might make the Log a much better boat upwind.

Phil S

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I came across this one in La Rochelle the other day. Beautiful boat, but they've certainly come on a bit in the last few years!

post-41741-0-74173300-1473834127_thumb.jpeg

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Mike is fast in all conditions. He has excellent wind reading skills from drifting conditions through a full-on canoe gale. He was almost half a leg ahead of the next boat in race 1 (near drifter at times) and didn't give away much to Dave in the big breeze.

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Mike is fast in all conditions. He has excellent wind reading skills from drifting conditions through a full-on canoe gale. He was almost half a leg ahead of the next boat in race 1 (near drifter at times) and didn't give away much to Dave in the big breeze.

 

Yeah he doesn't make many mistakes. I learned early on in the regatta that if Mike and I were on opposite tacks I was probably going the wrong way.

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Have you got a bigger photo to paste Amati? I'd love to see it in better detail.

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a4e1eb3feeea6891b864002ebd360174.jpg

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Made a model, it's very pointy. I like it

A bit rough, not finished, but you can see the effect I'm after

e3e9f14791635473ee875ba57ed7273d.jpg

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anyone ever tried titanium wire as rigging?

I've never heard of it but it seems like it might be good. I wonder if a spring temper ti wire would be best? I see the tensile strengths are up there with spring stainless. Have you found a source? So far I haven't had any luck.

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Hi Chris,

 

I think what you've got there is one of the German "Free Renjollen" dinghy classes.

A member here on SA - Chris 249 - has writen an excellent blog on history of boat design specifically to your query is -

 

https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/pt-1-25-the-sailing-scientists-of-the-renjollen/

 

-it includes some v.interesting stuff on Manfred Curry and his radical ideas.

Note his "brakes" on the transom. .. Now That on the back of an IC mark rounding or starting would be a sight to see. :huh::)

 

Ian McP

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Hi Chris,

 

indeed the Z-Boats are a class which is active in Germany and Austria. We share an event each year. It is a very small class of traditional wooden boats. 20m². Long and narrow and very low freeboard. So some of them go submarining from time to time. They are very fast and there are some beautiful boats among them.

Some more (german) info: http://www.zboot.net/

 

Arne

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Is there a North American IC class association to join?

You're already in it. We're a 100% libertarian organization. No fees, no paperwork, no services.

 

DRC

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The one change that is not a clarification requires no tool removal of the mainsail while the boat is upright. Used to be while afloat. My boat is now non-compliant which makes me unhappy. Rerigging to become compliant is not trivial as I have 3 watertight sections in my mast. I had no notice that rules were a-changing.

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Is there a traditional US east coast circuit calendar of IC events?

 

Where does event planning chatter happen?

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Here, mostly.

 

East Coasties, what do you got? My early summer is looking busy but late summer for sure. I'd love to do one or two down here if we have players.

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Hi Chris

I am sure I am on 3.5mm 7 x 1 dyform, but this is a bit over kill, I think Phil Robin uses 2.5 dyform, not sure about rod.... yet to experiment but like the idea of 3mm carbon rod and 3mm ti rod but don't really need any improvement on what I have.

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I have used 2.5 and 3mm rod. Swedging the ends is the tricky bit. As a rule of thumb, you can drop one size when converting from 1x19 cable. The metal area is almost the same. You get the advantage of less construction related stretch, but it is nnot as profound as if you maintain the diameter when you substitute the rod for cable. Dyeform is not as dense as rod and has less construction creep than 1x19, so I would not suggest the same size reduction formula. I maintain the same diameter and realize less stretch.

SHC

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Well I will go with the 2.5mm rod, I will leave the swedging to the boys at the local riggers. Apparently there is a special technique that they are a bit hush about, but they have a great reputation. Harken Ha300 1" wire blocks should be strong enough to run the high load end of the shroud adjustment. Need to get the rig up to measure the fore triangle so I can pass all the measurements on to Frank Rowsell to make the sails. His lead time will more than likely dictate when I launch.

 

Chris H

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