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It would look cool, but can he go away from white boats?

 

Anyone got any further news on the US Nationals?

 

2008 US National Championships

Ram Island, Marion MA July 5th &6th

 

10 Races over two days with one throw out

5-8 knots on Saturday

10-12 knots on Sunday

 

USA-244 John Kells 11 Points 1st PLace

USA-235 Steve Clark 29 Points 2nd Place

USA-92 David Clark 36 Points 3rd Place

USA-241 Will Clark 39 Points 4th Place

USA-240 Oliver Moore 43 Points 5th Place

USA-200 Rocky Geyer 52 Points 6th Place

USA-202 Chris Moore 56 Points 7th Place

USA-201 Mike Costello 58 Points 8th Place

USA-226 Sol Marini 66 Points 9th Place

USA-230 Sam Moore 76 Points 10th Place

 

 

Thank you to the entire Moore Family for their hospitality. Ram Island on the 4th of July is a truly special place. It was great to see new faces on the water, with Rocky, Mike & Sol competing in their first IC regatta. Oliver was right in the hunt until what can only be described as a bad laceration to his wrist had him leaving the race course after Race 7 to visit the ER for stitches. I will leave it to others to say what worked and what did not.

 

Best

 

JK

USA-244

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Pictures:

 

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4631...mp;id=610542754

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4630...mp;id=610542754

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4630...mp;id=610542754

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4630...mp;id=610542754

 

Not the most photogenic of weekends.

John did a pretty nice job of running away and hiding on Saturday. Sunday he was more mortal, but some of that may have been due to a gooseneck that made reaching and gybing less than optimal.

Dave and Willy had a good battle, with "sleeping in the bed instead of on the floor" as Saturday's wager.

When Oliver walked into the ER with a chunk missing from his wrist, they asked how it happened.

"Sailing"

"By sailing do you mean you hate your father? Do you need to see the social worker?"

"Just stitch me up."

SHC

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I think I need some practice on smaller parts before I go that big, carriage rails, mast, gate rudder cassette... few things come to mind. Who knows it may happen.

 

Bugger on the cassette, I know how you feel reminds me about vacuum not working recently.

 

So the PSI wasn't accurate enough?

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Any pics of rigging layouts?

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Congratulations John! And David, excellent.

 

John, it looks like you're sporting a new jib. Why?

 

 

Chris,

 

I'm sporting an old jib. After the gooseneck popped off in Ottawa, and the subsequent tow in 30+ knots, the new jib was toast. The old jib actually has a much better shape in the head. It is too bad that the UK is closer than you are, It would have been very interesting race with you now that I feel like USA-244 is getting sorted. I have only had one sailing day (Ottawa) since returning from McCrae before the Nationals.

 

Needless to say, I am replacing the cast aluminum gooseneck with a custom Carbon/G10 gooseneck that will be securely bonded to the mast. Back to the “Little Shop of Horrors” for Johnny….

 

 

 

Best

 

 

 

John K

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So the PSI wasn't accurate enough?

 

It wasn't accurate enough in that it totally shit itself on me, so no vacuum. Therefore the parts are waiting the chopping block treatment also

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So John,

You were steadily improving at the Worlds, and you're now National Champion - if you were going to build another boat what would you do differently?

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It wasn't accurate enough in that it totally shit itself on me, so no vacuum. Therefore the parts are waiting the chopping block treatment also

 

 

That sucks. Had a vacuum pump fail on me on a moth hull layup. after the reciprocating saw was done, the remnants fit in a trash bag.

M

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So John,

You were steadily improving at the Worlds, and you're now National Champion - if you were going to build another boat what would you do differently?

 

Christian,

 

It is way too early for me to say what I would do differently. String Theory was 3000 miles away, and "Log Theory" (GER-78) is not completed yet. Against two Josies, Wonk & Alice, and in the conditions that we had, I would not change a thing (I pulled out the sharpie to mark what the rig settings that I was using).

 

Of the DC's built to date, Mayhem has a considerable amount of volume forward, but less than Steve's boats. At rest, the bow knuckle rest just above the water. As the hull moves faster, the dynamic lift of the bow sections is impressive, and the first meter of the boat is above the waves upwind. While the chine stops just forward of the chainplates, the direction of the spray at the bow, from the U shaped sections is very close to horizontal and does not run up the topsides. I can confidently say that I would not put any more volume in the bow. I need much more time in the boat in 20 knots to see if I would be comfortable making the bow finer. The same could be said of the shape of the transom. Compared to the other new boats built, Mayhem has a bit of a pin tail stern. Overall Mayhem is a very different concept from what Chris Maas has created and (and is being widely copied), and it is definitely geared toward planning on the forward surfaces, and keeping the bow up.

 

Chris & I talked yesterday, and with luck, we may see Chris make it to the east coast next summer. Until I can line up against one of the boats with a skinny bow again, it is all just speculation. For now I am very happy with how things are coming together, and I am hopeful that I have a package that is as fast as Chris, and that I'm just getting there a different way. Time will tell. Until then, I plan to continue to make minor refinements to the rigging systems aimed at minimizing friction & improving reliability. I may make a new dagger board, but only because I do not trust the foam core over an extended period of time. I will match the cord, & area, and only modify the plan form slightly. I am not planning a jybing board. I seem to have taken care of the mast bend issues that I was having in McCrae, so I am not sure what I would change about the rig, except to make the vang & boom attachments stronger. I think the combination of the high modulus mast & the aggressive square top main is putting much more force on the vang than we had previously.

 

John K

USA-244

 

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Congratulations John - well done.

Chris - the BMS on "Flatpack" is between 2230 and 2600 from the stern.

Now that the day time maximum temperature has dropped down to 20°C its far too cold for us to sail so I have time to do a bit of hull analysis.

Looking at the various hulls at 5° heel Rat which was similar to Mayhem and Josie underneath has a righting moment of 7.2, Flatpack with the String Theory type stern is 10.38 and the Nethercott is 10.6 so the String Theory hull is getting close to the Nethercott in hull only stability.

Note, these figures are really of use only when you are idling around before the sart as the rest of the time body weight achieves the righting moment.

The figures take into account the lower floor level as per Steve Clark's Josie.

John - I use Hullform too so would it be possible to send me your lines as I would like to see how full your bow is.

Geoff Harman

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Congratulations John - well done.

Chris - the BMS on "Flatpack" is between 2230 and 2600 from the stern.

Now that the day time maximum temperature has dropped down to 20°C its far too cold for us to sail so I have time to do a bit of hull analysis.

Looking at the various hulls at 5° heel Rat which was similar to Mayhem and Josie underneath has a righting moment of 7.2, Flatpack with the String Theory type stern is 10.38 and the Nethercott is 10.6 so the String Theory hull is getting close to the Nethercott in hull only stability.

Note, these figures are really of use only when you are idling around before the sart as the rest of the time body weight achieves the righting moment.

The figures take into account the lower floor level as per Steve Clark's Josie.

John - I use Hullform too so would it be possible to send me your lines as I would like to see how full your bow is.

Geoff Harman

 

Geoff,

 

PM me with your e-mail address & I can attach the file. The righting moment for Mayhem is 7.476 at 5 degrees of heel. I would be curious to see how the different boats compare in wetted surface, moment to change trim and prismatic coefficient.

 

Best

 

 

JK

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post-21278-1216039644_thumb.jpg

Progress is more like what Im used too, things are happening. As you can see the internals are in, I'll cut and fit the foam for the dance floor tomorrow some balck stuff on..... All going well I'm aiming to post cure on Sunday and then there is the paint prep, oh my the joy of sanding filling sanding sanding sanding.... still its worth it in the end when the top coat goes on and a nice smooth fair hull is gleaming back at you.

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post-21278-1216039644_thumb.jpg

Progress is more like what Im used too, things are happening. As you can see the internals are in, I'll cut and fit the foam for the dance floor tomorrow some balck stuff on..... All going well I'm aiming to post cure on Sunday and then there is the paint prep, oh my the joy of sanding filling sanding sanding sanding.... still its worth it in the end when the top coat goes on and a nice smooth fair hull is gleaming back at you.

 

That's quite shapely up around the chainplates. And going the pin tail route I see. Is that a concave foredeck?

 

Looks like you must be married otherwise you wouldn't have needed to put tarps down over the carpet.

 

Can you stand back enough to get a picture from the side?

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That's quite shapely up around the chainplates. And going the pin tail route I see. Is that a concave foredeck?

 

Looks like you must be married otherwise you wouldn't have needed to put tarps down over the carpet.

 

Can you stand back enough to get a picture from the side?

 

A bit to much shape around the chainplates wasn't as easy to make as I planned if I did it again there would be more "flatter" panels. The foredeck will be convex I still have to add the upper half to the vee bulk head I left it off to for now to make it easier to shape and fit the dance floor.

 

No not married.

 

I struggle to get far enough back without getting other things in the room block the view. I will be taking her outside the next day or too for some trimming so I'll get a decent side on shot then.

 

H.

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post-21278-1216039644_thumb.jpg

Progress is more like what Im used too, things are happening. As you can see the internals are in, I'll cut and fit the foam for the dance floor tomorrow some balck stuff on..... All going well I'm aiming to post cure on Sunday and then there is the paint prep, oh my the joy of sanding filling sanding sanding sanding.... still its worth it in the end when the top coat goes on and a nice smooth fair hull is gleaming back at you.

 

Looking Good, are you going to try anything different with the rig or is it going to be a Nethercott to IC transplant for now?

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Looking Good, are you going to try anything different with the rig or is it going to be a Nethercott to IC transplant for now?

 

Just going for a transplant for now. Will have to see how the old rig works on the new boat and go from there.

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Steve,

 

How about an update from the "Lab of Luxury"

 

Chris,

 

Has the new boat been launched yet?

 

Hayden,

 

Keep the photos comming.

 

Best

 

JK

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Steve,

 

How about an update from the "Lab of Luxury"

 

Chris,

 

Has the new boat been launched yet?

 

Hayden,

 

Keep the photos comming.

 

Best

 

JK

 

Speaking about the "Lab of Luxury" are there any results from the scale model test's?

 

More photos shortly, lack of sleep caught up last week so progress was slowed. New centre case goes in tonight (wasnt happy with the first one), dance floor tomorrow night if the rain stops for 5 minutes I'll take the hull outside and get some wide angle shots the next day or so when hopefully all the decks are on.

 

ICU2

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By popular demand:

post-738-1216684062_thumb.jpg

Kind of crowded in the shop, Uncle Walter and Kaito are in for brush ups before Sugar Island.

GER 78 staring them down...

post-738-1216684145_thumb.jpg

The back end, Seat carriage and tracks building finish and fairing in alternate steps. Not "big visual" days.

And finally:

post-738-1216684082_thumb.jpg

Dave's new guitar "Luxury Yacht"

Self finished Parker Fly.

Spar Varnish and Awlgrip.

Ken had a corpse left over, will put in electronics in a few weeks.

SHC

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By popular demand:

post-738-1216684062_thumb.jpg

Kind of crowded in the shop, Uncle Walter and Kaito are in for brush ups before Sugar Island.

GER 78 staring them down...

post-738-1216684145_thumb.jpg

The back end, Seat carriage and tracks building finish and fairing in alternate steps. Not "big visual" days.

And finally:

post-738-1216684082_thumb.jpg

Dave's new guitar "Luxury Yacht"

Self finished Parker Fly.

Spar Varnish and Awlgrip.

Ken had a corpse left over, will put in electronics in a few weeks.

SHC

 

GER78 is looking sweet, what is the planned rig for her - is she to be fitted out in Germany?

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Roger is taking advantage of our weak peso and buying a VanDusen intermediate modulous mast and boom, as well as a set of Kinder sails.

The rest of the set up will be pretty similar to the Josie series with one or two wrinkles made possible or because of the wood construction.

SHC

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Roger is taking advantage of our weak peso and buying a VanDusen intermediate modulous mast and boom, as well as a set of Kinder sails.

The rest of the set up will be pretty similar to the Josie series with one or two wrinkles made possible or because of the wood construction.

SHC

 

Cool, your old VanDusen was a little on the stiff side for me but then again there are a couple of kilos (and feet) between us. I went Kiwi and got a C-tech mast to replace it but still need to get the new sails (going to Irwin - sails that Hayden used, as Dave A (Alexander Sails) is staying on overseas after his 3rd place in the i14 worlds). Should have the whole package together in a couple of weeks.

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What is it with the Clark / Moore clan and having a massive cache of awesome toys??? Custom guitars, a vast collection of ICs spanning 30 or so years, a cats, c cats, i14s... you name it and chances are you have one hiding around the yard somewhere! I'm envious! :P

 

As for my potential build - it's been put off until at least summer 2009 if not 2010 sometime (unless someone else wants to do my design... see below); the order for the new car went in today so I'll be lucky to spare 2k/year for boaty fun for the next few years unless I put the moth on the market (as I think I mentioned earlier, that's not going to happen).

 

So, if anyone in AUS has a canoe to spare for the Albury nats, please let me know... Hayden, has anyone put dibs on your Nethercott yet should you have the DC ready before nats?

 

Also, if someone is interested in building a DC and is interested in the design that was rendered in my earlier posts, please let me know... I'd be happy to supply the required drawings free of charge just in order to get more boats out on the water... the only proviso being that build photos be presented on here for all to see and enjoy.

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Cool, your old VanDusen was a little on the stiff side for me but then again there are a couple of kilos (and feet) between us. I went Kiwi and got a C-tech mast to replace it but still need to get the new sails (going to Irwin - sails that Hayden used, as Dave A (Alexander Sails) is staying on overseas after his 3rd place in the i14 worlds). Should have the whole package together in a couple of weeks.

 

It is a good thing you found somebody local who is almost Steve's build to offload it onto. :rolleyes: . Have to admit the C-Tech is a sweet looking mast.

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Roger is taking advantage of our weak peso and buying a VanDusen intermediate modulous mast and boom, as well as a set of Kinder sails.

The rest of the set up will be pretty similar to the Josie series with one or two wrinkles made possible or because of the wood construction.

SHC

 

The Dollar / Euro Ratio one reason for having an complete boat. The other is that i wanted a complete boat to save time for sailing it and to keep my OD complete.

I plan to keep my OD for racing on national level as we have a quite competetiv fleet here in Germany at the moment. We had 12 boats in Travemuende (including 3 Swedish boats) and expect 11 ICs for our nationals first week of August.

(Results of the Racing in Travemuende can be found here: www.travemuender-woche.net )

 

Roger

(still IC GER 68)

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Cool, your old VanDusen was a little on the stiff side for me but then again there are a couple of kilos (and feet) between us. I went Kiwi and got a C-tech mast to replace it but still need to get the new sails (going to Irwin - sails that Hayden used, as Dave A (Alexander Sails) is staying on overseas after his 3rd place in the i14 worlds). Should have the whole package together in a couple of weeks.

I would have shortened the spreaders first.

SHC

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I would have shortened the spreaders first.

SHC

 

What are people buying for sails these days? Compared to Moth rigs I think ICs are lagging behind the curve - not that sleeve luff is everything, but a Moth sail is much more easily depowered than a Canoe main esp. up top. I was finally able to achieve this on my orange boat with tons of main purchase on the carriage, which pulled more bend into the mast at the top and flattened it completely when needed - very handy in the puffs. But I think that is a bit crude compared to these Moth sails, which seem to depower more automatically.

 

Was Chris using a Hansen sail or a Petersson cut at last Worlds?

 

KW

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I would have shortened the spreaders first.

SHC

 

I wasn't left with too many choices, I was without the mast for a couple of months, until it showed up again at another club. But it was always my plan to put on a similar rig to AUS17 and AUS018 (the scaled down i14 style set up that I like) on Josie. Am I right, well I hope so but it is not always the best move to reconfigure an ex IC World Champions boat (especially when it came 2nd in the then DC Worlds).

 

What are people buying for sails these days? Compared to Moth rigs I think ICs are lagging behind the curve - not that sleeve luff is everything, but a Moth sail is much more easily depowered than a Canoe main esp. up top. I was finally able to achieve this on my orange boat with tons of main purchase on the carriage, which pulled more bend into the mast at the top and flattened it completely when needed - very handy in the puffs. But I think that is a bit crude compared to these Moth sails, which seem to depower more automatically.

 

I'm not an expert on rigs (or much) but I'm not sure that the IC rigs aren't on par with the Moth sails already, racing against the Moths I notice that they use a lot more mainsheet work in the breeze than the IC. Sure I change gears by playing the vang and cunningham, but once dialled my ability to respond to gusts is pretty good, and generally less than 30cm of mainsheet shifts me from 'powered up' to 'dumping'. The head flicks off nicely in the breeze once the cunningham is set.

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Was Chris using a Hansen sail or a Petersson cut at last Worlds?

 

KW

 

I was using one of Ander's mains. The guy is an artist no question.

 

I saw one of the Hansen big sleeve Moth sails in Vancouver and it looks really good. I'm tempted to try one of his sails as a uni rig though I know there have been a few recent attempts at the uni sail idea that haven't been entirely successful.

 

I'm thinking that I want a mast that's not so stiff that frantic sheeting action is required on gusty days or so stiff that I can't get the full range of camber adjustment with a 12:1 cunningham. When I'm looking to get rid of power I'm pulling Hard on the cunningham to the point where the top is bladed out. Halyard stretch and grommet deformation is an issue.

 

Because we have so much righting moment with the sliding seat, especially for our rig size, and a lot of inertial resistance to heeling I think you need a pretty ridged rig to stay powered up.

 

Cunningham for camber control, vang for twist and mainsheet for fine tuning twist at the head as you work your way through waves and gusts. Is that right?

 

A lot of you guy's have got this down to a level of sophistication I can only dream of. This is just my simplistic view of rig dynamics

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There is a whole lot of voodoo and doodoo about how rigs work.

I suspect Chris has as good a handle on it as anyone no matter how modest he tries to act.

The IC is something of an odd duck, it shares a lot with catamarans and skiffs, but is also very much it's own problem.

Personally, I think this is a good thing.

A good development class should have design trade offs that are complex and which are effected by all factors of the design.

Keeps it interesting.

Many prefer simple boats, but I like to think about what the hell is going on when I spend hours looking at a mainsail.

SHC

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So, if anyone in AUS has a canoe to spare for the Albury nats, please let me know... Hayden, has anyone put dibs on your Nethercott yet should you have the DC ready before nats?

 

Only the one dib at this stage (you), sorry but I cant help this time around as Im transplanting for now many of the important bits off "Twist of Fate" on to my new boat. things like the mast, rudder , centreboard, plank...... My plan is to eventually get/make new parts for my new boat so both can be sailed who knows maybe next Easter I may have both boats sailable.

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post-21278-1217125873_thumb.jpg

 

Some progress towards getting my house back, hopefully not long before I get to sail.

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No worries Hayden, 'twas but a thought. The new boat looks great by the way - I like the Morrison-ish hips down aft; otherwise it's a nice, conservative, well planned boat.

 

Frank has apparently offered up AUS12, which while it's not the greatest IC in the world, i'm considering it simply to get another boat on the water and so I can get some more time playing in the ICs before I take the building plunge.

 

J

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No worries Hayden, 'twas but a thought. The new boat looks great by the way - I like the Morrison-ish hips down aft; otherwise it's a nice, conservative, well planned boat.

 

Frank has apparently offered up AUS12, which while it's not the greatest IC in the world, i'm considering it simply to get another boat on the water and so I can get some more time playing in the ICs before I take the building plunge.

 

J

 

Thanks, its about as conservative as a DC can get in some ways and in others its going to the limit (well at least I think it is). I just couldn't get some carbon plate to bend along with the foam its attaching too otherwise I would be laying the carbon on the dance floor tomorrow night, 90% of the fordeck is stuck down also today a few small tidying up bit here and there tomorrow should see the the hull finished on Tues (except for painting). I still have to finish my new carriage which has been sitting in peices getting pushed aside for other more important jobs, at least they seamed more important at the time. I'll post another pic tomorrw once all the clamps etc are out of the way.

 

AUS12 is far from the worst IC I have seen, you should take up Franks offer and come and join in what should be a great regatta

 

H.

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Ready to go!

 

Another awesome machine you have built, on water photo's????? :D . I hope to be not too far behind you getting mine to that stage. Have all the decks on and stand offs etc for cleats, blocks.... I have two corners on the back of the foredeck to fill in (finally decided how I wanted it to look) then I can throw some black stuff on the top and thats hull complete. Bugger to late to change some of my fitting layout some nice idea's you have there, I can always build another one.... maybe not this week.

 

How has she come out on weight?

Have you taken her for a float yet, if so how did she feel?.....

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I love this thread, so many knowledagble people actually doing rather than just talking. And such beautiful boats! You guys ever considered a NS14 style rig with wing mast? I'm sure you have. The rigs are about the same size so I would of thought it would be fairly easy to do. Maybe your narrow shroud base makes it difficult to get the diamond spreaders to pass through the shrouds?

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Ready to go!

post-16686-1217471434_thumb.jpg

post-16686-1217470871_thumb.jpg

post-16686-1217471053_thumb.jpg

post-16686-1217471121_thumb.jpg

post-16686-1217471178_thumb.jpg

 

Chris. Very Nice. Very Nice Indeed.

 

Must....study.....pics....more................

 

Paul

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I love this thread, so many knowledagble people actually doing rather than just talking. And such beautiful boats! You guys ever considered a NS14 style rig with wing mast? I'm sure you have. The rigs are about the same size so I would of thought it would be fairly easy to do. Maybe your narrow shroud base makes it difficult to get the diamond spreaders to pass through the shrouds?

 

The NS14 rigs are very cool, as are the boats. Very much the elegant efficiency approach, like the IC.

 

It seems that everything you can think of has been tried in the IC at some point. From full on wings to rotating masts to luff sleeves and camber inducers. Whether the technology to make some of these things work was there at the time or that the idea was implemented correctly is open to debate. For instance, I took two Taser mast bottom sections, tapered the top and fit it as a rotating mast on an IC in the early eighties. It was dog slow mainly because I had no idea what I was doing. Uffa Fox, Steve Clark and any number of Australians had probably tried it years before. But maybe now with carbon and different knowledge it could be made to work.

 

The great thing about the rotating mast is that it gives the IC sailor something to do during a tack after you've delt with the main, jib, seat and eight foot long tiller extension.

 

Thanks Hayden, the boat is about 2kg's light but a coat of paint after I splash a mold from the hull will bring it up to weight. Have not sailed it yet. I'm waiting for wind.

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two Taser mast bottom sections ... It was dog slow

I've seen something written by FB in which he implied the Tasar mast was considerably compromised by the need to be able to build in alloy. The wood ones that preceded it had a *lot* more flex, especially fore and aft above the hounds... I have a wooden Bethwaite Cherub wing mast and there's definitely unfinished business there, but one hell of a development challenge... I keep thinking I want to do it, but never enough to throw away two seasons and maybe a few prototype masts going slow whilst I get it to work...

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Chris, looking god. How much gybe in the board and what are you doing to control it?

 

 

 

 

Just got back from a week of camping an sailing in the 1000 islands, had at times 9 ICs, racing in a pretty damn cool part of the world. We had some really good close racing. Kells and I battled at the front. Again I seemed to have an extra gear upwind, but was hopeless on the reaches, starting to think that it is in no small part due to incompetence on my part. Bill Beaver was there and I think is now angry enough at being beaten that he has no choice but to build a new boat. John and I suffered breakages which took us out of the running for the series (the traditional Sugar Island racing schedule is a little weird), so after scavenging parts there was plenty of boat swapping. I think my next move is to take a router to the bottom of my boat and remove some of the curvature aft, see what that does. Chris was able to develop a working relationship with wonk and showed some great speed in the moderate conditions.

 

Well its 3 now and I have a boat call in 5 hours, and I just drove 7 hours so I think I'm going to go get some sleep.

 

Oliver Moore

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post-16686-1217607191_thumb.jpg

post-16686-1217607112_thumb.jpg

 

Oliver,

Sugar Island is a great spot. I will try hard to get there next year.

 

If you enlarge the picture above you can see the gybing mechanism. Copied from the I14's. Basically two mating V shaped pieces of uhmw, one attached to the cassette and the other slides fore and aft to engage. It's limited to 3 degrees. 4 degrees seemed like it might be more than needed and I was trying to keep the whole assembly as compact as possible.

The chord on the board is 190mm. Not as radically narrow as yours but smaller than I would go without the gyber.

Wish I had been paying attention in McCrea to what your set up looks like.

 

Did anyone notice my trick carbon rod jib traveller? Light, simple and keeps the ends of the track down at a reasonable level. It may not work for shit though. I'll let you know. It's Kenny Austin's idea. Especially if it doesn't work.

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Am I correct that your jib sheet cleat is on the boom?

Elegant work as always.

SHC

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Am I correct that your jib sheet cleat is on the boom?

Elegant work as always.

SHC

 

Yes it is. What a sharp eye you have. It's another Ken Austin innovation. He claims it works great on Podmorski. We'll see.

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Yes it is. What a sharp eye you have. It's another Ken Austin innovation. He claims it works great on Podmorski. We'll see.

Makes lots of sense, and no they aren't sharp eyes, I was just counting cleats and looking at the strings. Couldn't find a jib sheet but that thing in the center of the boom looked suggestive.

Gotten wet yet?

SHC

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Whoa,

 

Photos of 242 are brilliant. Beautifully designed, engineered and crafted. You guys keep churning 'em out.

 

Just want to add my thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and photos on this public forum.

 

I'm not an IC sailor but do have some appreciation of art.

 

Carry on.

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I had to give it a try even though there was next to no wind. So far everthing seems okay. Steve was so right about the challenges of a minimum volume stern. You really don't get much time to dink around with the rudder or down you go.

 

I like the low dance floor. The oddball jib traveller is okay so far. Couldn't tell a thing about the gybing board yet.

 

We really need some wind.

 

post-16686-1217690533_thumb.jpg

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Whoa,

 

Photos of 242 are brilliant. Beautifully designed, engineered and crafted. You guys keep churning 'em out.

 

Just want to add my thanks to all for sharing your thoughts and photos on this public forum.

 

I'm not an IC sailor but do have some appreciation of art.

 

Carry on.

 

Chris, Brilliant as always.

Is that a main sheet bridle I see on the aft end of the carridge ?

Also love the trolly main spar, A windsurfer mast in a previous life ??

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Chris, Brilliant as always.

Is that a main sheet bridle I see on the aft end of the carridge ?

Also love the trolly main spar, A windsurfer mast in a previous life ??

 

Yes mainsheet bridle. Needs to be shortened though almost to the point of non-existence. When the carriage is forward there's not much space between it and the boom.

 

Yes windsurfer mast. Aluminum no less. An antique.

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I had to give it a try even though there was next to no wind. So far everthing seems okay. Steve was so right about the challenges of a minimum volume stern. You really don't get much time to dink around with the rudder or down you go.

 

I like the low dance floor. The oddball jib traveller is okay so far. Couldn't tell a thing about the gybing board yet.

 

We really need some wind.

 

post-16686-1217690533_thumb.jpg

 

With such a nice looking boat I would have to have a first sail in next to no wind also. Your stern looks much lower than a Josie hull in the pic. I've had a similar idea over the years about a jib traveller, havent been able to come up with a light enough design to put one in practise like you have, I cant see why it wont work other than strength which Im sure you would have sorted.

 

As the rule here on S.A. photo or it didn't happen, Chris has the first offical "new rules" IC on the water (versus DC), what a starting point for the class if the rest of us can match or maybe better what sort of amazing canoe's are going to hit the water? I cant wait to be part of it.

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Looks excellent Chris, well done. I can't wait to build my new IC (and build my first boat) this coming summer - word is there might be four of us getting flatpack IC's.

Hopefully I can sell AUS26 (formerly USA239) onto another Adelaide based sailor so we can continue to grow the class down here.

 

Meanwhile back to looking for a replacement Gooseneck - the Boom and Mast decided to end their union minutes before heat 1 today.

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Chris, is the jib traveller rod flexible (ish?)?

 

Paul

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Chris, is the jib traveller rod flexible (ish?)?

 

Paul

 

Why yes it is, though it's 3/8" diameter solid carbon uni. The jib car needs to be out to the stops before it's loaded up. Works for me because I don't change my athwartships jib lead during a race.

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Why yes it is, though it's 3/8" diameter solid carbon uni. The jib car needs to be out to the stops before it's loaded up. Works for me because I don't change my athwartships jib lead during a race.

 

That seems very cool. :lol:

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post-16686-1217607191_thumb.jpg

post-16686-1217607112_thumb.jpg

 

Oliver,

Sugar Island is a great spot. I will try hard to get there next year.

 

If you enlarge the picture above you can see the gybing mechanism. Copied from the I14's. Basically two mating V shaped pieces of uhmw, one attached to the cassette and the other slides fore and aft to engage. It's limited to 3 degrees. 4 degrees seemed like it might be more than needed and I was trying to keep the whole assembly as compact as possible.

The chord on the board is 190mm. Not as radically narrow as yours but smaller than I would go without the gyber.

Wish I had been paying attention in McCrea to what your set up looks like.

 

Did anyone notice my trick carbon rod jib traveller? Light, simple and keeps the ends of the track down at a reasonable level. It may not work for shit though. I'll let you know. It's Kenny Austin's idea. Especially if it doesn't work.

Chris,

 

 

 

It would be great to see you make it out for Sugar Island, and perhaps another East Coast event. I really like the changes that you have made with the new boat, and of course the craftsmanship is beyond words.

 

After Oliver & I had taken ourselves out of contention for the biggest chunk of silver with a DNF for ICYM with a broken rudder shaft, and a DNS with a broken seat on Mayhem, Red Shift was cannibalized for parts and there was some boat swapping with Bill Beaver sailing Mayhem in one race, and Oliver and I swapping Uncle Walter & Mayhem in another. Bill noted that each of us was fastest when sailing our own boats.

 

Earlier in this thread, I kicked over an anthill when I suggested that Oliver was powered up earlier than most, and that the jybing board might be contributing. After sailing Uncle Walter, I am more inclined to think that Oliver's sails are just a little more powerful when sheeted hard when the wind is up, and I would have to agree that Oliver did have a small speed advantage upwind when the breeze was up. Boat handling on Uncle Walter is more critical as well, as I was definitely able to stall out the daggerboard much easier than on my own boat. As best I can tell, the mast set up on Uncle Walter & Mayhem is pretty similar, so the only noticeable difference is the sails. Off the wind, it is anybody's guess. Is it sail shape, or old age & treachery. I may be considering a re-cut to put in a little bit of luff round.....

 

The other thing that I noted, that was not apparent when I sailed Josie in Ottawa last year in light air, is just how much a Josie hull sinks in the stern during a tack. I think that there is a little volume that I could give up in the stern, but I am happy to have the boat support my weight when I walk behind the boom. I am curious to hear what Chris has to say after getting his new work of art out in some wind.

 

Regarding the broken seat, life can be cruel an the bleeding edge. The seat did not fail at the carriage exit where it is expected to fail. I had reinforced the bottom panel of the seat where the seat exits the carriage, and the seat failed at the edge of the added material, about 6" short of the center. That extra layer of 282 may be the ticket! The pathology report of the dead seat also indicated that the epoxy was a contributing factor as the broken carbon could be bent over without cracking. Needless to say, the next seat will have a slightly different laminate schedule, core and epoxy.

 

It was great to see Rocky, Oliver, Willi, Dave, & Chris make it up to Sugar Island. I will be looking for feedback and suggestions to improve & update the racing program to make the event more attractive. I will be posting the race results at www.intcanoe.org on the US forum this evening.

 

Best

 

John K.

 

IC USA-244 Mayhem

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Steve

How did the jig saw splices work out? Did you get any hard spots?

Geoff Harman

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Geoff:

Jigsaw scarfs worked a treat.

No hard spots and they lived through being rolled up without cracking up.

They also maintained alignment of the big panels so the edges were as designed, which was my big concern.

The interlocking tabs on the stem also worked well and I would consider these for any other place where maintaining alignment was critical.

SHC

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Sugar Island 2008 YouTube up.... strictly amateur from the RC on Thursday.

Hard to get steady shots in the roly-poly tin skiff that was constantly leaking.

 

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Not much more too do now... (famous last words)

post-21278-1218956358_thumb.jpg

 

Looking good, I can't wait until I start building in October

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Hayden,

You must have a tolerant house mate to allow such construction indoors. hope it is finished by October, even if unpainted. Looking forward to my 3rd drift around your lake. Hope the water level is up.

The Log has some wires to stiffen the mast but I have not sailed it since McCrae.

Fun boat but excess to my current program so going cheap.

Phil S

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Hayden,

You must have a tolerant house mate to allow such construction indoors. hope it is finished by October, even if unpainted. Looking forward to my 3rd drift around your lake. Hope the water level is up.

The Log has some wires to stiffen the mast but I have not sailed it since McCrae.

Fun boat but excess to my current program so going cheap.

Phil S

 

Phil,

Just me and the boats at my place. Water levels are looking to be higher not 80-100% but more than enough for good racing.

Im hoping to be finished before then. I really dont have that much more to do, the hull is basically finished just the mast gate and rudder fitting to glue on, some extra reinforcement over the carraige rails and then paint. The carriage just needs some tabbing and paint, the rudder cassette only has one more part to add and its ready to paint. The only part I havent started is the centreboard cassette, I have at least worked out how I'll make it, a nice simple design which should go together without to much hassle (fingers crossed). Im moving all other fittings etc over from AUS20. I'll need to make some new parts in the future to get near or hit minimum wieght the plank being the biggest weight saving of around 3.5-4kg

H.

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Not much more too do now... (famous last words)

post-21278-1218956358_thumb.jpg

 

H,

 

That's about where I was with one month to go before launch. If your mast, seat & blades are 100%, you could shave a few weeks off of that. As always, never underestimate the time for rigging. I still feel like I'm not done with that.

 

Great job, Keep the propaganda coming

 

I'm off to the "Lab of Luxury" to pick up the seat mould. and check on the progress of GER 78. The carbon & core should arrive this week. I might even borrow a seat & go for a sail....

 

Best

 

John

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H,

 

That's about where I was with one month to go before launch. If your mast, seat & blades are 100%, you could shave a few weeks off of that. As always, never underestimate the time for rigging. I still feel like I'm not done with that.

 

Great job, Keep the propaganda coming

 

I'm off to the "Lab of Luxury" to pick up the seat mould. and check on the progress of GER 78. The carbon & core should arrive this week. I might even borrow a seat & go for a sail....

 

Best

 

John

 

John,

 

Mast, Seat, Blades and all rigging are being swapped over, I'm having a very similar layout to my Nethercott all the important bits are as close as can be to allow a direct swap, I will need to shorten a few strings and wires if past performance repeats 1 day should see fitting out done and then some tuning for a while. Then main thing will be I can get on the water and finally enjoy having spent all the time building, not to mention getting my house back to normal..

 

An update for the "lab" would be good GER78 must be getting close

 

H.

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John,

 

Mast, Seat, Blades and all rigging are being swapped over, I'm having a very similar layout to my Nethercott all the important bits are as close as can be to allow a direct swap, I will need to shorten a few strings and wires if past performance repeats 1 day should see fitting out done and then some tuning for a while. Then main thing will be I can get on the water and finally enjoy having spent all the time building, not to mention getting my house back to normal..

 

An update for the "lab" would be good GER78 must be getting close

 

H.

 

Is the T-foil rudder (2005 Worlds) going to be making an appearance on the new boat?

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Is the T-foil rudder (2005 Worlds) going to be making an appearance on the new boat?

 

No plans at this stage, I still have the wings etc sitting there at home actually found them on the weekend when I was looking for something else. They aren't a high priorority at this point, 1st finish hull, 2nd finish carraige, 3rd add paint, 4th add fittingsand 5th add water. (Now thats an idea beyond the flat pack, dehydrated hulls, shipping cost low assembly easy - pour contents of packet into a swimming pool filled with water and stir)

 

H.

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No plans at this stage, I still have the wings etc sitting there at home actually found them on the weekend when I was looking for something else. They aren't a high priorority at this point, 1st finish hull, 2nd finish carraige, 3rd add paint, 4th add fittingsand 5th add water. (Now thats an idea beyond the flat pack, dehydrated hulls, shipping cost low assembly easy - pour contents of packet into a swimming pool filled with water and stir)

 

H.

 

 

Where's the Beer :lol::P

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post-27731-1219026318.jpg

 

thanks for this pic John, I got to show my wife that I'm not the only guy building a carbon sailboat "IN" the house.

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post-27731-1219026318.jpg

 

thanks for this pic John, I got to show my wife that I'm not the only guy building a carbon sailboat "IN" the house.

A few important words on health and safety:

The stuff we use in boat building isn't very good for you.

One way we don't get sick is by limiting our exposure to the stuff. This means wearing gloves and dust masks, having proper ventilation and mostly leaving.

If you make a mess in the house and continue to live there your exposure continues while you sleep, watch TV and chase the wife around the bedroom. The one guy that I know got really sick from epoxy was building boats in the basement and in his attached garage. The house had forced air heat, so the "shop" more or less got everywhere.

Just a note and an admonition to be thoughtful about what you do. The wife has a point.

SHC

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A few important words on health and safety:

The stuff we use in boat building isn't very good for you.

One way we don't get sick is by limiting our exposure to the stuff. This means wearing gloves and dust masks, having proper ventilation and mostly leaving.

If you make a mess in the house and continue to live there your exposure continues while you sleep, watch TV and chase the wife around the bedroom. The one guy that I know got really sick from epoxy was building boats in the basement and in his attached garage. The house had forced air heat, so the "shop" more or less got everywhere.

Just a note and an admonition to be thoughtful about what you do. The wife has a point.

SHC

 

Thanks for your advise, so far I have been doing all I can to do what you are saying, gloves.... I have half my house basically sealed up not 100% but pretty good. All the sanding gets done outside and only the bits that need heat inside. That said I agree its not a good practise, if I didn't build inside its a few months before I can even think about starting to build which for me wasn't an option. What would be ideal is a "Lab" of my own.

 

H.

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Thanks for your advise, so far I have been doing all I can to do what you are saying, gloves.... I have half my house basically sealed up not 100% but pretty good. All the sanding gets done outside and only the bits that need heat inside. That said I agree its not a good practise, if I didn't build inside its a few months before I can even think about starting to build which for me wasn't an option. What would be ideal is a "Lab" of my own.

 

H.

 

I have cleaned out the TARDIS (so named for the amazing amount of crap it can fit inside) in preperation for the build, this also involved relocating a Laundry. The Minister of Finance and War was most insistent that no boats or boat bits were to be built in the house (especially as we're planning to build 3 back to back - more if others are keen).

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Nice day to start the sanding, paint wont be too much longer I hope.

post-21278-1219475619_thumb.jpg

 

The hull only needs paint prep now, the carraige still needs some tabbing and then paint prep, all the other little bits are made ready for paint when the hull get done. Hopefully the next photo I post is an on water shot.

 

H.

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Nice day to start the sanding, paint wont be too much longer I hope.

post-21278-1219475619_thumb.jpg

 

The hull only needs paint prep now, the carraige still needs some tabbing and then paint prep, all the other little bits are made ready for paint when the hull get done. Hopefully the next photo I post is an on water shot.

 

H.

 

Is that going to be a semi raked back bow?

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Is that going to be a semi raked back bow?

 

It is, just to be different.

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looks nice, what weight cloth is on that beast?

 

Thanks, 200 g/m^2 Plain Weave Set 12k.

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Thanks, 200 g/m^2 Plain Weave Set 12k.

 

Bump.

 

This thread is too good to let it slip off the first page.

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I tried it on the canoe forum but I figured I'd get more hits here...

 

What do people think about using bow strakes/spray rails?

 

canoe2.jpg

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I think your spray rails are too big and too close to the load waterline.

You have to remember that it isn't until the boat is going over 15 knots that the spray drag becomes a significant player in the total drag of the boat. What you have there might be really fast in a honker, but a swine in light bobbily stuff.

SHC

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I agree with the fact that they are too close to the waterline. I may not be positioning my weight correctly upwind but I have noticed as soon as there's enough wind for chop, the boat goes through the waves with much of the wave going over the bow. If they spray rails were a bit higher, wouldn't it keep the boat from submerging the bow under the wave, therefore reducing much of the wetted surface that a boat would experience upwind?

 

My arguments against it: It would lead to more weight in the bow. Also, there is currently more to be gained in terms of downwind speed than upwind speed. Rather than altering the bow to favor it upwind, it should be a balance between upwind and downwind efficiency, with a possible lean towards downwind efficiency.

 

TC

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Not that I have a dog in the show because I don't, but I thought the prefailing thought was to build wave piercing bows so that you went through the wave very easily instead of traveling the extra distance up and over the wave as well as the added drag of having so much energy being spent lifting the boat over the wave. Then your biggest drag will be the hardware on the deck, easily dealt with, and then the plank.

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Harry,

Go with Steve and Fugu, different thoughts but same result. Canoe hulls are getting narrow like cat hulls. Cats tried spray rails 40 years ago when they were heavy and slower. They dont have any now, why, probably no use. It might work with heavy lead boats sailing in much bigger ocean waves, but not small boats.

If the rails lift the boat over every wave the pitching would be intolerable. Going through without piching is faster. If water on the deck is a problem, make the bow deeper or the deck narrower to hold less water. ACats have a very small bow but many think Steve went a bit low with Wonk.

Phil S

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It might work with heavy lead boats sailing in much bigger ocean waves, but not small boats.

do you think its maybe a question of working in waves many times the hull length Phil? I feel uncomfortable with the this concept, but I haven't managed to articulate why which is why I've been (uncharacteristically?) quiet, but your post has put two pictures in my head, and one is a RTW type racer surfing down big waves in the southern Atlantic, with the wave surface coming in at a shallow angle to the hull, and the other is of a smaller boat crashing though the short chop I mostly get to sail in, with the waves coming on at a sharp angle with much more impact and less flow...

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Harry, what software are yo using to draw the boat?

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Actually, Phil, I think there is a great deal to be done with spray management and high speed sea keeping. The optimal compromise is very difficult to model because the operating conditions are so variable. This has always been the fundamental design problem in sailboats...... if we could just get a design cruising speed! life would be so much easier.

The way I see it there was a lot of work in planing motorboats and seaplane floats that showed that as you approach 20 knots spray drag becomes an increasingly large percentage of the total drag. As a result these designers went down a path that puts aggressive spray shedding features on their hulls. All fine and good, but they also had the miracle fuel gasoline and increasingly lighter and more powerful engines to make GETTING to 20 knots a non problem. Sailing boat designers don't have the luxury of raw power to overcome the high drag of these things at low speed.

Which kind of explains the up and down performance of boats like Yves Parlier's Region Aquitaine mumble mumble. Even Lindsey Cunningham's Yellow Pages and Macquarie Innovations have had to struggle trough the low speed crap before they could launch at 40+knots. They have to be able to build speed and, as Simon so cleverly pointed out, slow down and stop without losing control and killing everyone.

Sailing boat designers have had to focus on down speed efficiency because that is where races are won. It is more important to go a bit faster sooner than to go a bit faster later. For example in the foiling Moths everyone is focused on being the first to foil, not necessarily who foils the fastest in force 5. Even in force 5 managing the down speed maneuvers ( tacking and maintaining/regaining foiling speed) is probably more critical than speed in the open field. But for most high performance sailboats we are now in a world where the 20 knot wall is a reasonably big deal a whole lot of the time. Ever notice that almost all fast sailboats go about 20 knots and no faster?

So for my efforts, I'm trying to minimize the effect of the spray rails at the speeds were sailboats are very7 good and place them where the only have effect when it is quite rough and a lot of water is flying around.

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Hawaiian canoes and surfskis went through an early phase of having flare high on the bow to reduce pearling when surfing own waves. This has been dropped in favor of cleaner bows that have less drag when immersed. the challenge for the canoe designer is steerage with the bow immersed, for sailboats with (larger) rudders this seems like less of an issue. There is a constant tension between balancing rocker, volume, speed, and seakeeping with new designs annually. I think the above question of how to balance wavepiercing low drag vs. dryness on deck is difficult, Irens seems to solve it by lengthening the bow?

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