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MR.CLEAN

Sunday NOOD Sunday

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I think you've all figured out that there ain't gonna be much OTW Anarchy from St. Pete. We made an attempt, but it was doomed from the beginning. At the end of the day, in order to do a good report we need a good driver and an enclosed cabin of some sort or a shaded flybridge. Computers are unwieldy things on center console runabouts.

 

We won't even be able to get you text stuff today, because I am ditching my wife to sail on one of the Tigers today. They're not doing too well, so my presence shouldn't hurt too much. We'll see. Thanks for bearing with us, we'll still use this space to post pics and whatever else we can scrounge up later.

 

Here's an enjoyable interview with some of the best sailors in the Melges fleet. Young stud plays with his nipples too, if you're into that kind of thing.

 

These are some of our favorite people in racing. Alan Field owns Melges 24 "WTF," and sails her all over the east coast in his first full year of Melges 24 racing. Ullman Sails' Erik Shampain (a/k/a mini hip) tunes and takes care of the boat and sails as forward hand. Ex-Oracle trimmer Jon Ziskind pulls strings, while Steve Hunt calls tactics. They rotate a cute chick seemingly every regatta. I like their style.

 

In this video, Erik and Steve talk about their runaway victories with Billy Hardesty at the Jaguar Cup, Steve talks about a new team racing DVD, and Alan talks about how f&%king hard it is to win a major regatta in the Melges class. Enjoy, and we'll talk to you soon.

 

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This looks indeed more fun then reporting...

 

news.h2.jpg

(Photo Credit: Stuart Streuli)

 

If you have extra pics of the Tigers send them over...

 

Cazza

We had a hell of a fun day on QMN. First to the top mark in the first race, threw it away at the bottom with a horrendous drop, and we only improved from there. What a fun day for Tiger sailing. Crazy thing was that the FT's got in 9 races - the most of any class. These things move so nicely in no air.

 

Lots and lots of pics coming to you soon, Cazza. The best shots of the tiger yet.

 

Thanks to the FT 10 guys for some great spectating and even better racing.

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This looks indeed more fun then reporting...

 

 

Cazza

I'm only doing this because Clean would appreciate it - than = comparator; then = time. Sorry, I'm an ass...

 

Any pictures of George's mullet?

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We had a hell of a fun day on QMN. First to the top mark in the first race, threw it away at the bottom with a horrendous drop, and we only improved from there. What a fun day for Tiger sailing. Crazy thing was that the FT's got in 9 races - the most of any class. These things move so nicely in no air.

 

Lots and lots of pics coming to you soon, Cazza. The best shots of the tiger yet.

 

Thanks to the FT 10 guys for some great spectating and even better racing.

 

So you bash NP sails one day then hop on a NP reps boat the next?

 

How did you like them?

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So you bash NP sails one day then hop on a NP reps boat the next?

 

How did you like them?

I didn't even know that QMN had anything to do with NP sails until you wrote that, but what do you mean, bash NP sails? The stock rags look nowhere near as nice as the Quantums that the Ed has, that's for sure. Is anyone claiming that they do? All 8 boats sailed with the NPs, so no one gave a crap.

 

Here's a report on what happened yesterday as I saw it:

 

We sailed in 4-10 knots yesterday. First two races our rig was a bit tight, sails hard to power up, jib battens too heavy. We were 20 seconds late on the start and still first to the top mark in flat water with no chop, and we minimized tacks. The second upwind beat we played the shifts a bit more, and found that the boat just wouldn't accelerate out of tacks regardless of how much power we tried to get into the sail. Second race the wind came in a touch, and the boat was a bit easier to keep at max speed. My aggressiveness carrying the kite in late probably kept us from 2nd on that race.

 

Third race looked like it was going to be REALLY light, and all the boats from Course B were coming in right past our course, so we knew it was going to be choppy as hell. We took two turns off the outers and one off the intermediates, rig was as straight as I dared get it, maybe 24 on the caps per gauge, but I'll let QMN chime in since his bow took the numbers after racing when I went to pack up our whaler. Going upwind in 5 knots, the caps were just slack. At the start, the wind came in at 8-10 knots, and I was a little worried that we were going to be on our ear, but the setting was actually awesome - the boat had shitloads of power to bust through the chop, maybe 1.5 inches of headstay sag, with leeward caps and middles bouncing around upwind. Max outhaul, some cunno, with jib cars a bit aft. We had speed on all 7 boats upwind. Race winner Tin Man was a touch slower upwind but grabbed two shifts that we missed, were deeper downwind, and covered us beautifully up the final beat.

 

This was the first time I'd ever trimmed main on a Tiger, so I did what I know best: I trimmed it exactly like I'd trim a Melges 24. This meant monster sheet tension, as much as I could get using the coarse tune. I couldn't get any more using the fine tune after I gorilla'd the coarse. This still wasn't enough to completely close off the top of the leech in 8 knots, and in the puffs I'd trav down with one hand, then backstay on.

 

I suspect in 15+, we would not be using very much mainsail, and with the prebend we had, we'd have been fucked.

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WOW what a week end. Vegas and I blew into town on Friday, and figured we’d scope out the St. Pete action…. Turns out that all the real talent hangs out at the Shuffle board joints! And WOW what action…these old broads really take care of them selves. Have you ever heard of a GILF? It stands for Grandmothers that I’d like to ….well, we run into a couple of SEX-ta-genarians. Between botox, Face lifts (and have you ever heard of an ass lift!!??) any way we hook up, these broads are crazy! You’d never guess that these girls are in their 70’s (except they eat dinner at 4:30, and yes, they wear that big granny underwear!) Myrtle on the left was in a MASH unit during Korea, and Gertrude on the right used to baby sit Bill Clinton!

 

bicardi266.jpg

 

But enough of that, we are ready to cover the NOOD…we are on the dock, where is everyone? Racing starts on Monday morning, just like Key West, right?….Clean, call me!

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Any pictures of George's mullet?

 

It wasn't a mullet, its a rat tail he uses to wipe the ball juice off his chin with...

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It wasn't a mullet, its a rat tail he uses to wipe the ball juice off his chin with...

 

Spoken by the guy who tried to ram his bowsprit up George's backside after 007 came in from port and tacked clear ahead of him at the finish

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Spoken by the guy who tried to ram his bowsprit up George's backside after 007 came in from port and tacked clear ahead of him at the finish

Kinda like this :

 

post-1-1079756731.jpg

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Spoken by the guy who tried to ram his bowsprit up George's backside after 007 came in from port and tacked clear ahead of him at the finish

 

Clear ahead...Hmmm not what the protest committee thought, nor the witnesses on the pin boat...quote me the rule that allows a port tack boat to tack directly in front of a starboard tack boat that needs to alter course to avoid a more severe collision.

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Clear ahead...Hmmm not what the protest committee thought, nor the witnesses on the pin boat...quote me the rule that allows a port tack boat to tack directly in front of a starboard tack boat that needs to alter course to avoid a more severe collision.

 

 

Congratulations - you won the protest by default. George and the rest of us had gotten over our shortcomings on the course that day and were enjoying the festivities upstairs since there were no protests posted as of 5:40PM.

 

The only alteration of course and overlap I and George's would-be witness (who was on port perpendicular, not in front of the two boats) observed was after George crossed the line, about 10s after tack completion, when you came in with speed from clear astern, established an overlap with his rudder, then intentionally headed up, clipped it and yelled protest.

 

BTW, classy sportsmanship by you and your crew after the race. Perhaps you and your team should have reflected upon your own breach of Rule 69.

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Spoken by the guy who tried to ram his bowsprit up George's backside after 007 came in from port and tacked clear ahead of him at the finish

 

stpete11602.jpg Yup looks clear ahead to me....asshat

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stpete11602.jpg Yup looks clear ahead to me....asshat

 

I was standing at the dock when a certain person off the boat to weather (in your evidenced photo, with the cool decal of a tiger on his boat) offered to be a witness on our (007) behalf as he thought the tack was clean. It should have been decided by the jury, unfortunately it was not due to my (Tall guy from Chicago) error in reporting back that you had never filed five min before time limit. Sorry again George.

 

From my perspective in the pit, Charsar never altered course while we tacked or after, I know my job in this situation is to watch the luff of your jib and tell tails. The jury may want to know this and I saw no change (firm luff in your photo evidence and streaming tell tails). After we complete our tack and are again on close hauled (I counted seconds) seven seconds later you catch us with your speed and tap us from astern just right of center (Immediately after we get a finish signal) while everyone on your boat is screaming. My perspective is a close, but clean tack. Especially considering you never altered course. Once we cross the finish line it is our obligation to sail our proper course and keep clear. I think you could have been found at fault for hitting us honestly.

 

What happened next has not truly been covered and while George may get most of the blame in this, the Charsar's crew looked like a bunch of punks and went personal immediately. Like Johnny and his dojo. I have rarely seen a group act in such a disrespectful manner to another skipper while their skipper is involved in a serious debate. It is a poor reflection of the leadership. I saw, whom I presume to be your son Char, reprimanded by one of your crew for making snide and inflammatory comments across the water.

 

Maybe we can pay that guy and have him slap you, then George, then your Son again and be done with this schoolyard bullshit. You all look retarded.

 

MT

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I was standing at the dock when a certain person off the boat to weather (in your evidenced photo, with the cool decal of a tiger on his boat) offered to be a witness on our (007) behalf as he thought the tack was clean. It should have been decided by the jury, unfortunately it was not due to my (Tall guy from Chicago) error in reporting back that you had never filed five min before time limit. Sorry again George.

 

From my perspective in the pit, Charsar never altered course while we tacked or after, I know my job in this situation is to watch the luff of your jib and tell tails. The jury may want to know this and I saw no change (firm luff in your photo evidence and streaming tell tails). After we complete our tack and are again on close hauled (I counted seconds) seven seconds later you catch us with your speed and tap us from astern just right of center (Immediately after we get a finish signal) while everyone on your boat is screaming. My perspective is a close, but clean tack. Especially considering you never altered course. Once we cross the finish line it is our obligation to sail our proper course and keep clear. I think you could have been found at fault for hitting us honestly.

 

What happened next has not truly been covered and while George may get most of the blame in this, the Charsar's crew looked like a bunch of punks and went personal immediately. Like Johnny and his dojo. I have rarely seen a group act in such a disrespectful manner to another skipper while their skipper is involved in a serious debate. It is a poor reflection of the leadership. I saw, whom I presume to be your son Char, reprimanded by one of your crew for making snide and inflammatory comments across the water.

 

Maybe we can pay that guy and have him slap you, then George, then your Son again and be done with this schoolyard bullshit. You all look retarded.

 

MT

 

MT,

 

Rules Question ONLY..

 

I believe that if your boat received a "love tap" from behind, your boat tacked too close , would be in the wrong and subject to penalty. It doesn't matter what your sails are doing and where the boat is in the tack ( even completed ). Tacking boat is burdened to keep clear, it must stay out of the way ( lane ) of the boat it is tacking in front of, it includes maintaining a speed equal to or greater than the boat that was tacked in front of... to keep clear ... which it did not... as you evidenced by the tap and your observation of the orther boat not altering their course.

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I was standing at the dock when a certain person off the boat to weather (in your evidenced photo, with the cool decal of a tiger on his boat) offered to be a witness on our (007) behalf as he thought the tack was clean. It should have been decided by the jury, unfortunately it was not due to my (Tall guy from Chicago) error in reporting back that you had never filed five min before time limit. Sorry again George.

From my perspective in the pit, Charsar never altered course while we tacked or after, I know my job in this situation is to watch the luff of your jib and tell tails. The jury may want to know this and I saw no change (firm luff in your photo evidence and streaming tell tails). After we complete our tack and are again on close hauled (I counted seconds) seven seconds later you catch us with your speed and tap us from astern just right of center (Immediately after we get a finish signal) while everyone on your boat is screaming. My perspective is a close, but clean tack. Especially considering you never altered course. Once we cross the finish line it is our obligation to sail our proper course and keep clear. I think you could have been found at fault for hitting us honestly.

What happened next has not truly been covered and while George may get most of the blame in this, the Charsar's crew looked like a bunch of punks and went personal immediately. Like Johnny and his dojo. I have rarely seen a group act in such a disrespectful manner to another skipper while their skipper is involved in a serious debate. It is a poor reflection of the leadership. I saw, whom I presume to be your son Char, reprimanded by one of your crew for making snide and inflammatory comments across the water.

Maybe we can pay that guy and have him slap you, then George, then your Son again and be done with this schoolyard bullshit. You all look retarded. MT

 

You obviously are drinking the George Kool Aid pretty hard (one of the few)..First you have absolute no credibility as Tin Man was to weather and not the boat with the Tiger on it. The finish boat witnessed the whole thing and sided with us. Second take a real close look at the picture, download it, zoom in on it...Your sails are luffing and your tack is not even complete and I am tucked in between 007 rudder cassette and stern quarter at contact. If that is you in the picture looking backwards at me maybe you didn't notice you had not completed your tack. What part of RRS 10 ON OPPOSITE TACKS When boats are on opposite tacks, a port-tack boat shall keep clear of a starboard-tack boat or RRS 13 WHILE TACKING After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course or even RRS 15 ACQUIRING RIGHT OF WAY When a boat acquires right of way, she shall initially give the other boat room to keep clear, unless she acquires right of way because of the other boat’s actions don't you understand. I think North Sails is doing a travelling rules clinic this winter that perhaps your whole crew should attend. The protest was filed 30 minutes prior to the filing deadline and i sat in the jury room for 45 minutes waiting. Regarding your statement of what happened at the end you have it slightly wrong (and we have it on tape just for future reference). The second after I informed George we were protesting him he flipped us the bird and said "sit on this"....While I was trying to have a "serious debate" with him he continuosly flipped us the bird and kept saying "sit on this". At that point my son said "nice fucking rat tail". at which point George stood up went WWE and said "come over hear and I will kill you"....some further words were exchanged, people were restrained and when I shouted we had a Rule 69 violation George shut up and sailed away....So I think it is time you all just sail away...

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MT,

 

Rules Question ONLY..

 

I believe that if your boat received a "love tap" from behind, your boat tacked too close , would be in the wrong and subject to penalty. It doesn't matter what your sails are doing and where the boat is in the tack ( even completed ). Tacking boat is burdened to keep clear, it must stay out of the way ( lane ) of the boat it is tacking in front of, it includes maintaining a speed equal to or greater than the boat that was tacked in front of... to keep clear ... which it did not... as you evidenced by the tap and your observation of the orther boat not altering their course.

 

QMN....Was nice to meet you guys BTW. I had never raced on a FT before and found most to be super cool in the fleet.

 

To our discussion. So, if I tack in front of someone (assuming all other rules are met) and they "catch" me with their speed, but they have reasonable opportunity to keep clear it is my fault? I dont think the rules support your "belief."

 

When does the burden shift to the overtaking boat? 5sec....10sec.....20sec....?

 

I do not debate it was close. Nor do I debate they had the right to fly their protest flag and ask a jury to look it over. Close racing is fun.

 

I just think we followed the rules on this one.

 

From RRS:

 

13. After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats

until she is on a close-hauled course. (I suppose this is debatable, I thought we were on close hauled when they tapped us)

 

18.3 Tacking at a Mark

If two boats were approaching a mark on opposite tacks and one of

them completes a tack in the two-length zone when the other is fetching

the mark, rule 18.2 does not apply. The boat that tacked

 

(a) shall not cause the other boat to sail above close-hauled to avoid

her or prevent the other boat from passing the mark, and (This was why I was watching their jib luff)

(B) shall give room if the other boat becomes overlapped inside her, in

which case rule 15 does not apply.

 

Please point out the flaw in my logic. Hope to race against (or with) you guys again someday.

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You obviously are drinking the George Kool Aid pretty hard (one of the few)..First you have absolute no credibility as Tin Man was to weather and not the boat with the Tiger on it. The finish boat witnessed the whole thing and sided with us. Second take a real close look at the picture, download it, zoom in on it...Your sails are luffing and your tack is not even complete and I am tucked in between 007 rudder cassette and stern quarter at contact. If that is you in the picture looking backwards at me maybe you didn't notice you had not completed your tack. What part of RRS 10 ON OPPOSITE TACKS When boats are on opposite tacks, a port-tack boat shall keep clear of a starboard-tack boat or RRS 13 WHILE TACKING After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course or even RRS 15 ACQUIRING RIGHT OF WAY When a boat acquires right of way, she shall initially give the other boat room to keep clear, unless she acquires right of way because of the other boat’s actions don't you understand. I think North Sails is doing a travelling rules clinic this winter that perhaps your whole crew should attend. The protest was filed 30 minutes prior to the filing deadline and i sat in the jury room for 45 minutes waiting. Regarding your statement of what happened at the end you have it slightly wrong (and we have it on tape just for future reference). The second after I informed George we were protesting him he flipped us the bird and said "sit on this"....While I was trying to have a "serious debate" with him he continuosly flipped us the bird and kept saying "sit on this". At that point my son said "nice fucking rat tail". at which point George stood up went WWE and said "come over hear and I will kill you"....some further words were exchanged, people were restrained and when I shouted we had a Rule 69 violation George shut up and sailed away....So I think it is time you all just sail away...

 

 

I am sorry, but I am unable to download the pic to see everything that close. I keep getting a bad link on XO Hosting or something. And you are right, it was Tin Man.

 

Your events are fuzzy too, George yelled, "Come and sit on this Motherfucker!" :)

 

I dont race with George and this was my first regatta with him and on the FT (sweet boat BTW). I have raced against him for 10+ years in Chicago's 105 fleet. I do not defend his words; and he knows who made the bed he sleeps in. But, from where I sat your boat looked just as bad as our skipper in the exchange of words and in the classy way you drove past the lifts with your crew taunting him further from your deck as you left town. Class all around.

 

I know the rules well and am in favor of pushing the envelope while racing in a tight OD fleet.

 

PS....you should both be 69-ing each other.

 

MT

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QMN....Was nice to meet you guys BTW. I had never raced on a FT before and found most to be super cool in the fleet.

 

To our discussion. So, if I tack in front of someone (assuming all other rules are met) and they "catch" me with their speed, but they have reasonable opportunity to keep clear it is my fault? I dont think the rules support your "belief."

 

When does the burden shift to the overtaking boat? 5sec....10sec.....20sec....?

 

I do not debate it was close. Nor do I debate they had the right to fly their protest flag and ask a jury to look it over. Close racing is fun.

 

I just think we followed the rules on this one.

 

From RRS:

 

13. After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats

until she is on a close-hauled course. (I suppose this is debatable, I thought we were on close hauled when they tapped us)

 

18.3 Tacking at a Mark

 

 

If two boats were approaching a mark on opposite tacks and one of

them completes a tack in the two-length zone when the other is fetching

the mark, rule 18.2 does not apply. The boat that tacked

 

(a) shall not cause the other boat to sail above close-hauled to avoid

her or prevent the other boat from passing the mark, and (This was why I was watching their jib luff)

(B) shall give room if the other boat becomes overlapped inside her, in

which case rule 15 does not apply.

 

Please point out the flaw in my logic. Hope to race against (or with) you guys again someday.

 

1. There is no burden to shift...there is no overtaking boat... the boat ahead tacked too close as evidenced it was not able to come up to speed and stay clear...your quote of rule #13 takes care of this... The burden lies with the tacking boat, regardless of how it completes a tack, it must stay out of the way, the boat behind is not obligated to alter course, if it does... the boat ahead commited a foul by not keeping clear ( tacking to close ) this includes accelerating to a speed which will keep it ahead of the boat behind. It is the entire event of tacking and accelerating away from the boat behind, not just throwing the sails across and assuming everything is OK.

 

2. This event happened at the finish... at the finish there is "no call for room" There is no "2 boat length call" There was no overlap. The tacking boat did not keep clear by getting back up to sufficient speed to keep clear which is part of keeping clear. Losing momentum is part of a tack and failing to gain it back still keeps the burden on the boat that tacked. In light air momentum and acceleration back to speed is part of keep clear not just assuming a new direction.

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1. There is no burden to shift...there is no overtaking boat... the boat ahead tacked too close as evidenced it was not able to come up to speed and stay clear...your quote of rule #13 takes care of this... The burden lies with the tacking boat, regardless of how it completes a tack, it must stay out of the way, the boat behind is not obligated to alter course,

This is utter nonsense. Please point out the rule, appeal or ISAF case where the requirement that a boat that tacked ahead of another must "maintain equal or greater speed as the boat they are in front of" (paraphrasing your earlier post). You can't, because no such thing exists.

 

Once the tacking boat has assumed a close-hauled course it is now the responsibility of the boat behind to keep clear - plain and simple - as long as she has room and opportunity to do so.

 

Look at the rules - initially, rule 13 governs:

 

13 WHILE TACKING

After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats

until she is on a close-hauled course.

 

Then once on a close hauled course it's rule 12 :

 

12 ON THE SAME TACK, NOT OVERLAPPED

When boats are on the same tack and not overlapped, a boat clear astern

shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead.

 

subject to the provisions of rule 15:

 

15 ACQUIRING RIGHT OF WAY

When a boat acquires right of way, she shall initially give the other

boat room to keep clear, unless she acquires right of way because of the

other boat’s actions.

 

BTW - note the word "initially" in rule 15. It's there for a reason. Same reason that words like "permanently" or "eternally" aren't there. As soon as the tacking boat completes her tack and is on a close hauled course, SHE has rights, not the boat clear astern, but she must INITIALLY give room to keep clear (i.e, boat astern does not have to begin taking evasive measures until after the boat ahead is on CH course.) But as soon as boat ahead is on CH course, boat astern MUST take evasive action if needed. You cant just plow into the guy ahead of you if he completes his tack onto CH and you have room to avoid him (where "room" will depend upon speed of boat astern (not AHEAD), sea state, other boats around, etc.).

 

Take a look at the summary of ISAF CASE 17:

 

"A boat is no longer subject to rule 13 when she is on a close-hauled

course, regardless of her movement through the water or the sheeting of

her sails."

 

Note the word "movement" there. If you read the actual case, it's clear that the tacking boat can be dead in the water on a CH course, and still has rights, and any boat clear astern must avoid them, as long as they have room to do so.

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This is utter nonsense. Please point out the rule, appeal or ISAF case where the requirement that a boat that tacked ahead of another must "maintain equal or greater speed as the boat they are in front of" (paraphrasing your earlier post). You can't, because no such thing exists.

 

Once the tacking boat has assumed a close-hauled course it is now the responsibility of the boat behind to keep clear - plain and simple - as long as she has room and opportunity to do so.

 

Look at the rules - initially, rule 13 governs:

 

13 WHILE TACKING

After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats

until she is on a close-hauled course.

 

Then once on a close hauled course it's rule 12 :

 

12 ON THE SAME TACK, NOT OVERLAPPED

When boats are on the same tack and not overlapped, a boat clear astern

shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead.

 

subject to the provisions of rule 15:

 

15 ACQUIRING RIGHT OF WAY

When a boat acquires right of way, she shall initially give the other

boat room to keep clear, unless she acquires right of way because of the

other boat’s actions.

 

BTW - note the word "initially" in rule 15. It's there for a reason. Same reason that words like "permanently" or "eternally" aren't there. As soon as the tacking boat completes her tack and is on a close hauled course, SHE has rights, not the boat clear astern, but she must INITIALLY give room to keep clear (i.e, boat astern does not have to begin taking evasive measures until after the boat ahead is on CH course.) But as soon as boat ahead is on CH course, boat astern MUST take evasive action if needed. You cant just plow into the guy ahead of you if he completes his tack onto CH and you have room to avoid him (where "room" will depend upon speed of boat astern (not AHEAD), sea state, other boats around, etc.).

 

Take a look at the summary of ISAF CASE 17:

 

"A boat is no longer subject to rule 13 when she is on a close-hauled

course, regardless of her movement through the water or the sheeting of

her sails."

 

Note the word "movement" there. If you read the actual case, it's clear that the tacking boat can be dead in the water on a CH course, and still has rights, and any boat clear astern must avoid them, as long as they have room to do so.

 

 

Thats what I thought. My skipper, who is a friend of yours and a judge, confirmed it to be true as well.

 

That of course depends on whether my recounting of the events is accurate! Ahh, to be on the jury instead of building your case to one.

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We were to weather and saw the whole thing. George gambled tacking (he would have crossed) he lost the protest it's over. The exchange of words is unfourtunate but happens on the water. Both guys and crews need to let it go. Look at the bright side, we had close racing in a good fleet, I am from the south and down here rubbing is racing. Now when do we do it again?

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My skipper, who is a friend of yours and a judge, confirmed it to be true as well.

Hey- say Hi to Tom for me, and Gytis and John M when you see 'em. I was probably 10-11 years old the last time they saw me!

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