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idontwan2know

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Can one of our resident frogs give us a translation of this report:

 

http://blogs.lexpress.fr/aularge/archives/...a_a_chavir.html

 

Machine Translation:

 

Baston on Lorient: 30 nodes of south-wester, not large world on water, Si it are not some bold Mumm 30 and... a trimaran, that of Alain Gautier, with members of Alinghi on board. To listen to channel 16 on the VHF on the blow of 11.30 this morning, it is learned that tri capsized by 47° 40 N and 3° 22 W, to approximately 1 thousand of southern Bastresses, the buoy of entry of the southern channel of entry in Lorient: it is Foncia. A priori, two wounded was hélitreuillés, the remainder of the crew is on board. A zodiac of technical aid is on zone, as well as a fishing vessel which will try to tow the multi with back. The skipper refused the assistance of a tug boat of the port. Sympathetic baptism of fire of Swiss... More infos to be followed.

 

----

 

 

I'm going to guess that that untranslated word amounts to "removed by helicopter". Scary stuff. Prayers and best wishes for all the sailors involved.

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I'm going to guess that that untranslated word amounts to "removed by helicopter". Scary stuff. Prayers and best wishes for all the sailors involved.

Airlifted.

all safe.

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Karma?

 

Regardless of which side I favor in this it is good to read that all on board Foncia are safe, even the Alinghi folk ;)

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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Nothing really to add yet. Nobody yet knows why it happened. Boat now probably going to be towed in by lifeboat guys.

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To keep this all in one thread, here's the story put on earlier now I have more time:

Alain Gautier’s trimaran, Foncia, capsized this morning whilst Alinghi sailors were on board for a training session. The capsize occurred around 11.30 am about a mile from the Bastress south buoy that marks the southern entry channel to Lorient.

 

Two sailors were airlifted to hospital, one with a head injury and one with a damaged collar bone; both are comfortable and in no danger.

 

The other crew members have remained with the upturned trimaran, which will be towed into port shortly.

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Well, good to hear, that everybody is ok.

 

I wonder, when these AC guys capsized a boat for the last time. Must be some learning experience, i guess.

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To keep this all in one thread, here's the story put on earlier now I have more time:

Alain Gautier’s trimaran, Foncia, capsized this morning whilst Alinghi sailors were on board for a training session. The capsize occurred around 11.30 am about a mile from the Bastress south buoy that marks the southern entry channel to Lorient.

 

Two sailors were airlifted to hospital, one with a head injury and one with a damaged collar bone; both are comfortable and in no danger.

 

The other crew members have remained with the upturned trimaran, which will be towed into port shortly.

I am very happy to hear that all are safe. I hope there wasn't much damage and that Alinghi doesn't let this dampen their spirits. Sometimes the sport is just brutal, but it has nothing to do with karma (wethog). These guys are sailors. Arguably, the finest match racers in the world. They could as easily be working for some other team as Alinghi. Don't let that the fact that their boss is an Asshat of the first order take away from them. All the best to the sailors on Alinghi and Fonica!

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Karma?

 

That remark is uncalled for. These guys are sailors, like (most) of us here.

 

Current forecast for sea areas Plymouth and Biscay is force 6 to gale 8, occassionally severe gale 9.

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I am very happy to hear that all are safe. I hope there wasn't much damage and that Alinghi doesn't let this dampen their spirits. Sometimes the sport is just brutal, but it has nothing to do with karma (wethog). These guys are sailors. Arguably, the finest match racers in the world. They could as easily be working for some other team as Alinghi. Don't let that the fact that their boss is an Asshat of the first order take away from them. All the best to the sailors on Alinghi and Fonica!

 

+1

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I was participating in a 40ft cat rescue and sailed on 30meter maxi cats once or twice and heard many stories. And so it seems that these things mostly happen in light/medium winds even if you know the theory.

It gets down to quite a lesson by a little gust :)

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In the Seb D interview from Lorient, Ed Baird mentioned 25-30 knts the day before, calm the day he arrived, and a big blow forecast next. Anyone know the conditons they were out in?

 

Here's the first-day pic (again), think it was from a BYM gallery:

 

post-17804-1206797466_thumb.jpg

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My source sais it was 16-18kn average in Lorient with a 30kn gust at ~ 1200h

You could well be right. There really isn't any definite info right now, but someone on the spot said they thought it was around 30.

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You could well be right. There really isn't any definite info right now, but someone on the spot said they thought it was around 30.

 

Anyone know how many were aboard, and who was airlifted to hospital?

 

Scary.

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Anyone know how many were aboard, and who was airlifted to hospital?

 

Scary.

I hope anyone who does know will say nothing until the families have been contacted.

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two italians. one is the boatcaptain of sui 100 (head injury) and another one. sory that i don't have more info but the connection was really bad.

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My source sais it was 16-18kn average in Lorient with a 30kn gust at ~ 1200h

 

Lorient is sea area Biscay, for which the forecast is 6-8 occasionally 9 i.e. something in the range 22-47. Of course this forecast covers a wide area.

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I hope anyone who does know will say nothing until the families have been contacted.

 

That's decent - You're right.

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I hope anyone who does know will say nothing until the families have been contacted.

I am certain that will be the case. Almost certainly the families have already been notified that everyone is safe, albeit two with minor injuries. They are all, sailors and families, in my prayers.

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two italians. one is the boatcaptain of sui 100 (head injury) and another one. sory that i don't have more info but the connection was really bad.

Families now informed. Chico Rapetti has a head injury and Peter van de Kierk a broken collar bone.

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You could well be right. There really isn't any definite info right now, but someone on the spot said they thought it was around 30.

I actually have it from todays windstats. On the offshore island it recorded higher average winds but no gust.

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alinghi page:

 

AT 11:30 this morning, in 20 plus knots and a lumpy Atlantic swell, the 60ft trimaran Foncia capsized off Lorient with Alinghi sailors onboard. Of the 10 crew onboard, Piet van Niekerk and Francesco Rapetti were airlifted to hospital, both are safe and with no serious injuries. The rest of the crew along with consultant Alain Gautier were involved in securing the boat and towing it ashore, the sailors are shaken but unhurt. Ed Baird, who was onboard, provides some insight into what happened: “As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multi-hull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out. From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards. As the mast hit the water, it broke, followed by the rear beam.” He continues: “The crew reacted very quickly in getting everyone back on board, doing a head count and checking injuries before calling for help and beginning to secure the boat.” Foncia is currently being towed into the harbour upside down to be craned out and assessed for damage. “We have all been through crashes and capsizes before, this is all part of the sport,” says Ed Baird, adding “however this is a temporary situation with Foncia and is not our equipment, so it is even more disappointing to us that we are involved in damaging someone else’s gear. We have learned a valuable lesson here and now must get to work to fix things up for Alain [Gautier].”

 

http://www.alinghi.com/en/news/news/index....idContent=15333

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Well, I am very happy Alinghi PR people are all over this getting the word out quickly. Saves us all the trouble of trying to figure it out.

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I'm on the North coast 100 km north of Lorient we had a blow 40 mn ago with pretty strong peak gusts, the ones you feel even when walking on the coast.

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Well, good to hear, that everybody is ok.

 

I wonder, when these AC guys capsized a boat for the last time. Must be some learning experience, i guess.

 

 

French Kiss, San Diego.

'Keel' fell off? Appendage anyway.

 

Flushed that French challenge down a watery loo, IIRC.

 

WH's right about Karma, and about his best wishes for sailors hurt.

 

Re Karma, I have been predicting as DC's body double, BB is following DC's training program and doing the capsize bit today.

 

Will Oracle learn same lesson?

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Thats sat picture valid 12UTC. These guys had bad luck sailing at the edge of a frontal zone moving past the area. South of Lorient there were no gusts. North of it gusts up to 40kn.

post-16385-1206800620_thumb.jpg

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Pity for the hurt ones tho today we have learned a new French word...nonchalance.

The previous one was embarrassements.

It is weekend and most probably some pressure to send freshmen to sail this boat in a frontal zone. But you can twist the whole stunt into a big step forward. On the other hand if you do not flip you do not flap. Or something ;)

Well it wasn't me.

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alinghi page:

 

AT 11:30 this morning, in 20 plus knots and a lumpy Atlantic swell, the 60ft trimaran Foncia capsized off Lorient with Alinghi sailors onboard. Of the 10 crew onboard, Piet van Niekerk and Francesco Rapetti were airlifted to hospital, both are safe and with no serious injuries. The rest of the crew along with consultant Alain Gautier were involved in securing the boat and towing it ashore, the sailors are shaken but unhurt. Ed Baird, who was onboard, provides some insight into what happened: “As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multi-hull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out. From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards. As the mast hit the water, it broke, followed by the rear beam.” He continues: “The crew reacted very quickly in getting everyone back on board, doing a head count and checking injuries before calling for help and beginning to secure the boat.” Foncia is currently being towed into the harbour upside down to be craned out and assessed for damage. “We have all been through crashes and capsizes before, this is all part of the sport,” says Ed Baird, adding “however this is a temporary situation with Foncia and is not our equipment, so it is even more disappointing to us that we are involved in damaging someone else’s gear. We have learned a valuable lesson here and now must get to work to fix things up for Alain [Gautier].”

 

http://www.alinghi.com/en/news/news/index....idContent=15333

 

Quite a photo there too.

 

Not sure this was the case but what happens if most of the stick is still attached, don't you have problems trying to get her into the port?

 

And how hard is it to get another mast like this, if they can't repair it?

 

Sure puts a damper on Alinghi's preparations, maybe they'll have to look for another big ride to train with in the interim. Time's getting short, even if the Match is October 1st. July 4th? Yikes!

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Quite a photo there too.

 

Not sure this was the case but what happens if most of the stick is still attached, don't you have problems trying to get her into the port?

 

And how hard is it to get another mast like this, if they can't repair it?

 

Sure puts a damper on Alinghi's preparations, maybe they'll have to look for another big ride to train with in the interim. Time's getting short, even if the Match is October 1st. July 4th? Yikes!

 

 

Given the current lead times (two IMOCAs had to retire from The Transat due to delivery time of masts) I doubt they can get a new one before late summer.

 

But, there might be some spare masts to rent, and there are a few ORMAS to charter.

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They are prayers.

 

Unfortunately prayers will not do much once a taniwha is in your organisation.

 

It will need a kaumatua and I can't see any of them helping the "Swiss"

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Courtesy French Navy helos one shot of Foncia at the spot.

and thanks to http://seasailsurf.com/ two shots of them coming back home.

 

Is that the entire starboard aft beam seperated from the ama and dangling? Some serious dammage there.

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Unfortunately prayers will not do much once a taniwha is in your organisation.

Oh Hastings, you are so cool throwing around your super-hip words like 'taniwha' and 'kuamatua'. We've seen 'taniwha' in three threads now! Maybe you can work it into ever thread on SA!

 

Could you please give us a definition so we can be in the club too? This way, we all won't have to waste time googling your dumb-ass comments.

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I think it's the mast, but it's hard to tell...

 

I think so too... almost looks like the sail is attached and floating just below the surface, to the left.

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You could well be right. There really isn't any definite info right now, but someone on the spot said they thought it was around 30.

As you rightly pointed out during the G3 'event', sailors on the scene often guess wind and or wave conditions higher than rescue professionals.

 

Very glad to see that Alinghi put the record straight with '20+'

 

Also happy that all are safe and that this did not happen during an AC final. Hopefully the crash and burn stage will be past history when the big boats face off in October.

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At the BBC, not much new in it

--

 

 

Alinghi team capsize multihull

 

(dated Foncia pic)

Alinghi are training in a trimaran for an America's Cup match with Oracle

 

Two sailors from America's Cup holders Alinghi were injured when the multihull the team were training on capsized off the French port of Lorient on Saturday.

 

Piet van Niekerk and Francesco Rapetti were airlifted to hospital but escaped serious injuries when the 60ft Foncia rolled in 20-knot winds and lumpy seas.

 

The remaining crew clung to the netting of the trimaran before being rescued.

 

Alinghi are set to race BMW Oracle in a controversial catamaran series for the next America's Cup.

 

Swiss syndicate Alinghi, who have little experience on multihulls, were training under the guidance of French expert Alain Gautier.

 

"As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multihull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out," said Alinghi's Ed Baird.

 

"From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards. As the mast hit the water, it broke, followed by the rear beam.

 

"The crew reacted very quickly in getting everyone back on board, doing a head count and checking injuries before calling for help and beginning to secure the boat.

 

"We have all been through crashes and capsizes before, this is all part of the sport."

 

Alinghi and BMW Oracle are embroiled in a legal battle to decide the format for the next staging of the America's Cup.

 

Alinghi beat Team New Zealand to win the Cup in its normal multi-team format in monohulls in 2007.

 

But since then the proposed 33rd staging of the famous event has been postponed after American syndicate BMW Oracle contested the protocol in court, becoming the official challenger in the process.

 

Because of the complex rules of the event, BMW Oracle and Alinghi are now set to race off in catamarans sometime this year or next before the traditional competition - with a challengers' series followed by a head-to-head final - resumes some time after 2010.

 

--

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alinghi page:

 

... Ed Baird, who was onboard, provides some insight into what happened: “As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multi-hull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out. From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards.

Bearing away is not always high risk. Bearing away from the high side of the "Oh Shit" zone is what creates the risk. Maybe they didn't know what part of the curve they were on? Team Alinghi has enough multi experience to avoid this sort of error. There has to be more to the story. If it was just bad luck and they were too close to the edge ... no excuse in a borrowed boat.

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Slighty off-topic, but from the NZ Herald just now:

 

--

Yachting: End of reign looming over Alinghi

5:00AM Sunday March 30, 2008

By Paul Lewis

 

 

Excerpts, emph mine:

 

Grant Dalton doubts Alinghi will be able to challenge Oracle. Photo / Janna Dixon

 

Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton says he would be surprised if America's Cup defender Alinghi are much advanced in building a 90-foot multi-hull yacht to take on Oracle in the courtroom-inspired clash likely to take place later this year.

 

The Cup went back into court last week after Alinghi and Oracle could not agree on a date to hold the head-to-head clash which, after Oracle's successful court challenge against Alinghi, cuts out all other challengers (including Emirates Team New Zealand). The regatta will likely be held in Valencia in July or October this year.

 

But Alinghi are claiming they do not have time to be ready and the matter has gone back to the New York Supreme Court - for resolution next week.

 

Dalton says he believes Alinghi are behind in the boat-building race.

 

That's in spite of the BMW Oracle syndicate saying that Alinghi chief Ernesto Bertarelli had been quoted in a newspaper in December as saying that Alinghi were "even then" preparing for a multi-hull clash in July.

 

 

"The problem is that these yachts will be an enormously stressed engineering piece of kit. It's a bit like launching a lunar satellite into space - it's no mean feat," said Dalton.

 

"Under the Deed of Gift, you have to build everything in the country of origin - Switzerland, in Alinghi's case. They just simply do not have the facilities there to do this entire thing.

 

"I mean, you have the entire military might of the United States to draw on, versus Switzerland? It's a very tight timeframe and I just do not think they have the physical presence to do it in time.

 

"These are not the sort of boats that you can build and then spend a week sailing around in it before racing. In a perfect world, you'd want the boat built and on the water in January for a July race."

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Oh Hastings, you are so cool throwing around your super-hip words like 'taniwha' and 'kuamatua'. We've seen 'taniwha' in three threads now! Maybe you can work it into ever thread on SA!

 

Could you please give us a definition so we can be in the club too?

 

Taniwha ?

 

Small creature that lives in water. Each Maori tribe in NZ has their own. They are small and mischievious. In most situations, the taniwha is a protector. But, with their impish ways, they can bring bad luck to enemies. New Zealand Maori are careful not to antagonise taniwha. Each canoe that brought Maori to NZ was accompanied by a taniwha. During the Cup, there were definitely taniwha in the Valencia darsena. These days they are on high alert for disrespectful behaviour and I suspect Alinghi's problems are only just begining.

 

A kaumatua is a respected Maori elder. Certain kaumatua have the ability to lift the tapu associated with the taniwha. Tapu ? Mmmmh, bit like a fatwa in the Muslim world. But without the violence. Tapu is a kind of prohibition. If that food is tapu, you must not touch it. Before it can be used, the tapu must be "lifted."

 

No Quarter, thank you for your enquiry.

 

If you see Friar Tuck, as him about taniwha. Same with Fleury etc. They know taniwha can be very troublesome.

 

Your humble and obedient servant, Hastings

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taniwha

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Taniwha ?

 

Small creature that lives in water. Each Maori tribe in NZ has their own. They are small and mischievious. In most situations, the taniwha is a protector. But, with their impish ways, they can bring bad luck to enemies. New Zealand Maori are careful not to antagonise taniwha. Each canoe that brought Maori to NZ was accompanied by a taniwha. During the Cup, there were definitely taniwha in the Valencia darsena. These days they are on high alert for disrespectful behaviour and I suspect Alinghi's problems are only just begining.

 

A kaumatua is a respected Maori elder. Certain kaumatua have the ability to lift the tapu associated with the taniwha. Tapu ? Mmmmh, bit like a fatwa in the Muslim world. But without the violence. Tapu is a kind of prohibition. If that food is tapu, you must not touch it. Before it can be used, the tapu must be "lifted."

 

No Quarter, thank you for your enquiry.

 

If you see Friar Tuck, as him about taniwha. Same with Fleury etc. They know taniwha can be very troublesome.

 

Your humble and obedient servant, Hastings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taniwha

Seems like 'taboo' stems from 'tapu'.

 

I must admit, this whole taniwha business sounds a bit stange in my ears. But, on the other side, in Island they even have a governmental commissary for fairies...

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Courtesy French Navy helos one shot of Foncia at the spot.

and thanks to http://seasailsurf.com/ two shots of them coming back home.

 

Making the rounds:

 

--

Ed Baird was at the helm and made a mistake whilst bearing away. 20 knots of wind. Gautier was on board - he was the only multihull expert on board. The mast is broken. Cico got a light head injury whilst curly Pete is still in hospital.

--

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testing 3 (sorry...)

 

post-17804-1206817622_thumb.jpg

 

damn ... are you bored or what? :)

 

post-19034-1206817763_thumb.jpg

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damn ... are you bored or what? :)

 

I really do have 3 good Foncia pics, but they won't upload for some reason.

 

Maybe this Moon River pic describes the Foncia situation best, until I get the good ones figured out.

 

post-17804-1206818200_thumb.jpg

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I really do have 3 good Foncia pics, but they won't upload for some reason.

 

Maybe this Moon River pic describes the Foncia situation best, until I get the good ones figured out.

 

post-17804-1206818200_thumb.jpg

 

is that the alinghi crew hiding from paparazzi

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"We were just practicing for a race in the Southern Hemisphere..."

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Great pix! Bet our photo ed will be chasing you on Monday!! :D

Those submarine bases are really grim and, when you get inside one, quite spooky.

Happily, since our first visit - when Le Defi was the only hi-tech yacht around there - a major part of the area is now covered in modern buildings, in which all sorts of interesting boating related projects go on.

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From Sail World at Steep multihull learning curve for Alinghi crew

 

More there.

 

Excerpt:

 

--

 

 

Perhaps preparation will need to continue for the Swiss America's Cup defenders until July 2009 as Alinghi's Ernesto Bertarelli insists.

 

The prospect of match racing two 90 foot multihulls must look less appealing to the Alinghi camp after they capsized the 60 foot trimaran Foncia in 20 knots of wind and relatively lumpy seas off Lorient France yesterday.

 

The 34th America's Cup Defender's team Alinghi was training in 20 knots of wind when the trimaran capsized.

 

Ed Baird (USA) was at the helm. Alain Gautier (FRA) skipper of the trimaran was on deck working with some other crew.

 

 

post-17804-1206820728_thumb.jpg

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I'm glad everyone is ok. That had to be a hell of a ride.

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Funny, it reminded me of Seb D's headline:

 

Ed's looking forward to sailing the America's Cup on a multihull

 

And the end of the article:

 

--

 

SD: Thank you Ed for taking the time to speak to us. The weather forecasts for tomorrow (today) should be 20 to 25 knots and you will probably have a ball. Good luck and have fun sailing on Foncia!

 

--

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Good work on all involved in getting this up in pics and text, SA rocks when it comes to late breaking news! Restatement of the obvious, but looks like Alinghi is on the steep side of the learning curve, will be interesting to watch both teams trying to tame these beasts-am thinking all the multi hull types like the french rock stars and Randy Smyth will see their phones ringing off the walls with calls from AC camps.

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This is really bittersweet. I feel bad for the sailors but Bertie is a joke. He must really have a huge ego because he is done no planning what so ever for an October match. Unfortunately, his team is so far behind in the game that they may never catch up. I have sailed for a lot of rich owners who change their minds quickly but this guy is the ultimate MFO.

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Good work on all involved in getting this up in pics and text, SA rocks when it comes to late breaking news! Restatement of the obvious, but looks like Alinghi is on the steep side of the learning curve, will be interesting to watch both teams trying to tame these beasts-am thinking all the multi hull types like the french rock stars and Randy Smyth will see their phones ringing off the walls with calls from AC camps.

Gee, what exactly happens when you don't have that big heavy thing on the bottom??!!!... In 20 knots no less!!! hehe, that'll learn 'em fast!

Based on what we are seeing, Good Cat racers could field a team tomorrow that would defeat either of these teams in a heartbeat. It's just not the same sail that these guys are used to

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The prospect of match racing two 90 foot multihulls must look less appealing to the Alinghi camp after they capsized the 60 foot trimaran Foncia in 20 knots of wind and relatively lumpy seas off Lorient France yesterday.

It really is very silly of anyone to read anything into this incident, especially since so little is known about it. I've no idea whether Ed Baird made a mistake, or even whether he really was helming at the time. All I know is that the list of top multihull specialists who have been helming an ORMA tri that capsized is legion - Ravussin, Cammas, Peyron, Lemonchois, Proffit, Joyon, Bourgnon, Monnet .............

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"As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multihull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out," said Alinghi's Ed Baird. "From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards."

 

--------

shouldn't this read: "I fucked up and let the boat fall into the death zone before the lads could depower."

 

just curious.

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All I know is that the list of top multihull specialists who have been helming an ORMA tri that capsized is legion - Ravussin, Cammas, Peyron, Lemonchois, Proffit, Joyon, Bourgnon, Monnet ............. is legion.

Agreed.

Very glad everyone is ok (well relatively, that collar bone will take a bit to heal).

 

I see no link between a perceived lack of 'preparedness' of Alinghi, and the incident on Foncia. It may have been a case of operator error, but shit happens. I don't see any reason to pile on. It was an unfortunate accident.

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And Ernesto's second best lawyers have a great argument this week for Justice Cahn - "see, we need to first learn to sail something like this before we can even build one. That big scary man Larry Ellison has been practicing for months, so we need time to catch up. Accidents are not fair or sporting".

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Agreed.

Very glad everyone is ok (well relatively, that collar bone will take a bit to heal).

 

I see no link between a perceived lack of 'preparedness' of Alinghi, and the incident on Foncia. It may have been a case of operator error, but shit happens. I don't see any reason to pile on. It was an unfortunate accident.

 

Before the capsize ... what was the biggest bit of AC News in the last 24 or so hours?

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"As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multihull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out," said Alinghi's Ed Baird. From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards."

 

--------

should'nt this read: "I fucked up and let the boat fall into the death zone before the lads could depower."

 

just curious.

Translation: "I was going too fast, should have rounded up. I stuffed 'em and over we went" (Yep... I know that feeling!!) Hopefully, no one got hurt too badly...Its a bigger slide and drop than my boat...

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Before the capsize ... what was the biggest bit of AC News in the last 24 or so hours?

 

I'll bite

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Before the capsize ... what was the biggest bit of AC News in the last 24 or so hours?

Not sure of the direction of this question, and not sure my answer to this question would be the same as everyone else's. In general, I guess the 'biggest news' has the letter submissions to J. Cahn and hearing scheduled for 4/2/08. For me, it's far more interesting that Oracle met with LV/Trouble last week and are considering a CoR from Spain. I don't think it's big news that Alinghi is out training on an ORMA 60, nor would it be big news (imo) for Oracle to be out training on a big tri.

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I'll bite

 

If Alinghi had not grabbed the headline ... wouldn't a BYM News interview with Tom E be the hot topic?

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If Alinghi had not grabbed the headline ... wouldn't a BYM News interview with Tom E be the hot topic?

 

BYM can grab the headline back by getting Ernesto on the phone and asking him how he feels about all of this, and why on earth can't BMW Oracle compromise, leading, of course with, it's all Russell's fault, isn't it?

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"As we were bearing away, always the highest risk situation on a multihull, both the leeward and the central hull dug into the water and the rudders came out," said Alinghi's Ed Baird. "From then it was out of our hands and we capsized forwards."

 

--------

shouldn't this read: "I fucked up and let the boat fall into the death zone before the lads could depower."

 

just curious.

 

Can someone expand on the above please?

 

Obviously it's ~something~ like easing off as you round the top mark in a Laser in a gust but what makes it so precarious in these boats?

 

 

Also, how fast could the the tail have lifted? Would the guys suddenly be looking down at a long way to the water?

 

All 60' is about 6 stories but the nose would already be quite deep by the time they started bailing overboard, right?

 

And Baird said 'capsized forwards' - he means an actual pitchpole insetad of a capsize?

 

Do people often get hurt in these events? Seems like they easily could.

 

Damn!

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Before the capsize ... what was the biggest bit of AC News in the last 24 or so hours?

 

I warned you chaps about the Ides of March!

 

Re recent event: I have on good authority, conversation went:-

 

"Look Ernie - no hands! ..........

 

..... oops"

 

"You're right, Ed......, they're all in DAS FUKKEN WASSER!"

 

Well, imho, the news would have been the EB vision for a new law of contract.: -

 

Negotiations around a price range if inconclusive, and no deal is reached: If the bottom subsequently falls out of the market, I can injunct you to buy at the lowest of the price range you then offered.

 

On the other hand, if the price goes above my top range, I have a complete defence that the 'contract' was never completed.

 

This bit of new international jurisprudence is to be called the 'DingAlinghi' Doctrine (so named after an astute SA poster) and the world's 'n'th best lawyers are being paid mega bucks to tout this legal snake oil.

 

The 'DingAlinghi' Doctrine is due to be tested in the NYSC, the after April Fools day.

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Can someone expand on the above please?

 

Also, how fast could the the tail have lifted? Would the guys suddenly be looking down at a long way to the water?

 

All 60' is about 6 stories but the nose would already be quite deep by the time they started bailing overboard, right?

 

And Baird said 'capsized forwards' - he means an actual pitchpole insetad of a capsize?

 

Do people often get hurt in these events? Seems like they easily could.

 

 

 

why don't you go to www.adonante.com they have a clip from Banque Populaire fliping and other tat might help you get those answers. enjoy

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And Ernesto's second best lawyers have a great argument this week for Justice Cahn - "see, we need to first learn to sail something like this before we can even build one. That big scary man Larry Ellison has been practicing for months, so we need time to catch up. Accidents are not fair or sporting".

 

I look forward to some fancy Ernie interview on BYM where he will state that such accidents are incompatible with his vision and dream of the America's Cup. The DoG has to be amended to prevent the Defender from having accidents. Challengers can have as many as they want but not the Defender.

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Can someone expand on the above please?

 

Obviously it's ~something~ like easing off as you round the top mark in a Laser in a gust but what makes it so precarious in these boats?

Also, how fast could the the tail have lifted? Would the guys suddenly be looking down at a long way to the water?

 

All 60' is about 6 stories but the nose would already be quite deep by the time they started bailing overboard, right?

 

And Baird said 'capsized forwards' - he means an actual pitchpole insetad of a capsize?

 

Do people often get hurt in these events? Seems like they easily could.

 

Damn!

 

Little boat, capsize fun!

 

Big boat capsize. Breaky breaky. Get out check book.

 

Koukel

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Not sure I have permission to post this one (different source) but haven't been able to reach them to ask, so.... posting anyway :P

 

This is just minutes after the accident, it all happened quite close to the port's entry. There look to be whitecaps but the seastate's not too terrible, at least in this photo:

 

post-17804-1206826679_thumb.jpg

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How's your vector mechanics ? Grab a pencil and draw yourself the velocity triangle of a boat sailing at 20 knots in a 20 knot true wind at say 45 degrees to the yacht C.L. You get an apparent windspeed vector of about 37 knots at 22.5 degrees relative to the yacht c.l.

 

Now bear away rapidly about 45 degrees but don't slow down and maintain the true windspeed vector with the same direction and velocity. The apparent wind speed drops to 28 knots but the velocity triangle gives you a resultant now at 45 degrees to the yacht centerline - i.e. the apparent wind speed vector is rotating aft rapidly as you bear away. Now if you dump the main at the same time (which is common practice in a keel yacht which sails at ten knots not twenty) you are actually trimming the main to the new Apparent wind and the mean chord line of the main is now (due to the ease) taking up a line diagonally across the yacht. As the sail Lift vector is perpendicular to the chord line it is re-orienting rapidly to provide a pitching couple (rather than a heeling couple) which is burying the bows and lifting the tail out of the water. To counter act this you need to run for the stern (ok on a little boat) to provide a reaction couple to counter act this (mass aft). Unfortunately as the main is easing away the whole system is just turning into a positive feedback loop.

 

Basically at that point you are fucked.

 

Excellent, thanks!

 

There must be a lot of coordination that has to take place to do it perfectly... and safely. Sounds like if you were being conservative then you'd want the main eased more gradually and gas up once you're going straight again?

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Excellent, thanks!

 

There must be a lot of coordination that has to take place to do it perfectly... and safely. Sounds like if you were being conservative then you'd want the main eased more gradually and gas up once you're going straight again?

Nope, can't bear off with the main sheeted tight ... rudders stall. Have to ease faster and control the speed to prevent a runaway ... then trim.

 

Another eye opener is calling a gybe late and coming up into the death zone ... its a big pucker ... a real photo op. :blink:

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And Baird said 'capsized forwards' - he means an actual pitchpole insetad of a capsize?

 

Do people often get hurt in these events? Seems like they easily could.

 

Damn!

yep, and yep

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Hey what's your vector Victor?

Do you like gladiator movies?

Ever seen a grown man naked?

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