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Buckie Lugger

Artemis Ocean Racing

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Jonny Malbon's new ride, Artemis Ocean Racing II, launched at the end of last week.

 

There's a sneak preview of the boat at The Daily Sail, for those of you with a subscription. Otherwise you'll have to make do with these shots from the delivery to Southampton.

 

post-3564-1207552947_thumb.jpg

 

Charles Bertrand ribbed me for trying to estimate the widths of boats the other week, so all I'm going to say is that the standard lane width on an A-road or motorway in the UK is 3.65 metres, which means that she could be around 6.5 metres wide! :ph34r:

 

The Daily Sail's article adds that she's got an interceptor, like on Ecover and (I'm guessing) Aviva.

 

A nice touch is that she's got a pair of foredeck hatches, which is a refinement from Paprec Virbac, and means that the skipper can work from the high side of the boat when dropping sails.

 

The cockpit looks sheltered, but there's no sliding roof.

 

And the rudders look like a variant on the VARA design, with a circular cassette through which the blade goes. I'm guessing that this facilitates replacement, or allows them to be raised. The rudders themselves don't kick up - Simon Rogers made comments that these tended to be heavier and less reliable than fixed rudders in his excellent talk at the Petit Bateau conference a few weeks ago.

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That wing mast is gonna be huge handful!

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Look at those rich folk holding up all that fraffic just to get their big F-O toy into the water.

 

Makes ya sick doesn't it!

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Look at those rich folk holding up all that fraffic just to get their big F-O toy into the water.

 

Makes ya sick doesn't it!

Of course, should have slung it under a helicoptor

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Anyone fancy letting the girl with the L plates know where she can find out about those 'bits' hanging off each side?

Only need a basic (blonde girls) appreciation at this stage & happy to research myself if someone tells me what they are called

TVM

OA

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Anyone fancy letting the girl with the L plates know where she can find out about those 'bits' hanging off each side?

Only need a basic (blonde girls) appreciation at this stage & happy to research myself if someone tells me what they are called

TVM

OA

Deck based spreaders, to support rotating wing mast. Increase shroud base and helps with compression of the mast tube.

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Deck based spreaders, to support rotating wing mast. Increase shroud base and helps with compression of the mast tube.

x - will await pics with the sails up :)

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Charles Bertrand ribbed me for trying to estimate the widths of boats the other week, so all I'm going to say is that the standard lane width on an A-road or motorway in the UK is 3.65 metres, which means that she could be around 6.5 metres wide! :ph34r:

 

Sorry Buckie, didn't mean to ribbed you the other week. I just thought you were being a bit too enthusiastic :rolleyes:

RYD definitely went down the powerful way with this beastie baby.

Impressive rig and many refined details as well...

Let's wait to see her on the water,

Still prefer Guillaume Verdier's approach though.

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Anyone see the programme on Sky this weekend about Johhny M ? It's being re-run today and I have it on record but is it worth watching ?

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I know Charles, I should get out more. :P

 

I agree with you about Safran, though. It strikes me that in 2000 and 2004, PRB wasn't the fastest and most powerful boat, and yet she won the race. So Safran, which seems an evolution of that concept, makes a lot of sense.

 

Of course, I'm sure that I'd have a different impression if I drove one of these for a living.

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You're just jealous because his boat's bigger than yours Tuf-Luf. :)

 

Am not!!!

 

:lol::lol:

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I've been down and had a look at the boat today. Looks pimp!

 

The thing which most stuck out to me is the us of a (passive?) air injection system situated just behind the daggerboard casing. There is a wedge ~ 20cm long rising to ~ 10mm which is present across the width of the hull. This wedge can be seen in the new video of Artemis 2 on the Artemis Ocean Racing website. On the aft facing edge of this wedge are hundreds of ~ 2-3mm holes designed to intoduce air bubbles into the turbulent boundary layer to reduce the wetted surface area of the yacht, and hence resistance.

 

I have mixed feelings about this. I have a classmate who is investigating this for his dissertation this year and is finding only very small changes in resistance as it is very hard to get the bubbles to stick to the hull surface. In addition as far as I know, open 60 rules prohibit the presence of inflection points along the hull. The use of a wedge would it'd have thought infringed upon this.

 

 

Keep your eyes peeled, this is a boat full of innovation.

 

 

G.

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There's another article up about the boat on The Daily Sail, and it's worth a read if you're subscribers. (And if not, you should be. :P)

 

As Crammo said (above), there are lots of nice touches on the boat, and it sounds like they've really gone for reliability over weight savings. Given you're looking at a third of the fleet in the Vendee retiring, and another third likely to finish with problems, that makes sense.

 

I like her, and it's good to see another designer bringing fresh ideas into the class.

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like the bit about 70knots, axe and a dry suit. still not sure about that mast section

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Went to have a look, got some pics (but too big to put up here and I'm lazy so you have to ask for more or less specific parts and I'll have a looksy and make an effort to put it up here) but not of the quality (read closeness) of TDS because the christening party stuff from last night was still in the way.

 

First the sheer size of the mast: I know the pics make the mast look huge but then you see the real thing...

Secondly with the old boat moored behind it the boats don't look to be of equal size. There's 60ft and there's 60ft

The daggerboards are asymetric in shape but by the looks of it they can be swapped around (hole in top and bottom of the foil, both ends ending in a similar fashion).

 

Anyone know their schedule? the inclination test was over the weekend, the transat is in 4 weeks time and I take it they have to do a bunch of testing and tuning as well as a qualifying run for the race.

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Here some pics i've taken at ocean village last monday,

look at the step behind the daggerboard...interesting.

The interceptors are located on the transom.

The mast chord is just scaring

post-8835-1207687737_thumb.jpg

post-8835-1207687747_thumb.jpg

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post-8835-1207687765_thumb.jpg

post-8835-1207687792_thumb.jpg

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Where's the boom vang/kicking strap go? Am I alone in the view that it is rather ugly?

 

Curved Main sheet track takes care of that, less stress than a regular one.

 

That mast section is frickin big! I Like the look of the rudder system though, i have wondered why no one has done this in the recent builds, kick ups seem too much like hard work, plus you can easily swap them over if one is damaged. its not easy to work on the kick up ones in the middle of the ocean.

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Could someone explain me how the interceptor works???

 

I have seen some very disturbing pictures of Ecover sailing powered up upwind with the transom above the water... I guess that was the effect of the interceptor... But I can't figure out how this system is actually made.

 

If someone has some drawings, it would be great!!

post-20100-1207728218_thumb.jpg

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Am I alone in the view that it is rather ugly?

 

No you're not - most of the new generation boats are really grim with their oversized coach roofs - hugo boss excepted

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Here some pics i've taken at ocean village last monday,

look at the step behind the daggerboard...interesting.

The interceptors are located on the transom.

The mast chord is just scaring

 

The photos of the transom confuse me. It looks like the quadrant for the steering is right under the emergency hatch. Theer si a bllody great slot right under the hatch. How is this going to be watertight, and how is the skipper going to be able to get to the emergency hatch?

My money is still on Safran.

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Elaine Bunting has a post up on her blog about Artemis, at:

 

http://www.yachtingworld.com/yw/blog/20080...ne_bunting.html

 

I didn't realise that Simon Rogers was actually hired to provide a team.

 

Normally, a skipper's team selects the designer and runs the project. In this case it's the other way round. Simon Rogers, together with the team's manager Howard Gibbons, set up a company called Blue Planet to find sponsorship, design and project manage the build of the a boat, and they employ the skipper and sailing team. Rogers cheerfully admits: "If it all goes wrong you can blame me."

I like the rudder system too, which looks like a version of the VARA system:

 

http://www.socasailboats.com/VARA_System/b...ara_system.html

 

I don't know why it's never been used before either. It seems like a neat system.

 

At the Petit Bateau conference, Simon Rogers said that kick-up rudders tended to cause more problems than they prevent. The main risk with them is that they'll kick-up at an inopportune time, force the boat to gybe and broach, and break the mast.

 

And there are a lot of small niggles with them. For example, Hugo Boss spent much of her time in the Southern Ocean struggling with unwanted kick-ups.

 

Rogers mentions (at the Daily Sail) that there's a 40 kg penalty associated with a kick-up rudder system, and a 10 kg penalty with the VARA style, in both cases over a fixed rudder system.

 

Given the above, it looks like a pretty compelling solution.

 

Wind_seeker: I'd guess that an interceptor works by trapping water against the underside of the transom. This will cause the flow over the hull to be diverted downwards at the stern. So, in effect, it's like dropping the aft section slightly, which is what a trim tab does.

 

Jambalaya: I agree that the aesthetics of most new 60s is lacking. They probably need the big coach roofs to get through the roll over test, though.

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Could someone explain me how the interceptor works???

 

I have seen some very disturbing pictures of Ecover sailing powered up upwind with the transom above the water... I guess that was the effect of the interceptor... But I can't figure out how this system is actually made.

 

If someone has some drawings, it would be great!!

 

 

Check out this post - it helps! http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php...t&p=1336558

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Elaine Bunting has a post up on her blog about Artemis, at:

 

http://www.yachtingworld.com/yw/blog/20080...ne_bunting.html

 

I didn't realise that Simon Rogers was actually hired to provide a team.

I like the rudder system too, which looks like a version of the VARA system:

 

http://www.socasailboats.com/VARA_System/b...ara_system.html

 

I don't know why it's never been used before either. It seems like a neat system.

 

At the Petit Bateau conference, Simon Rogers said that kick-up rudders tended to cause more problems than they prevent. The main risk with them is that they'll kick-up at an inopportune time, force the boat to gybe and broach, and break the mast.

 

And there are a lot of small niggles with them. For example, Hugo Boss spent much of her time in the Southern Ocean struggling with unwanted kick-ups.

 

Rogers mentions (at the Daily Sail) that there's a 40 kg penalty associated with a kick-up rudder system, and a 10 kg penalty with the VARA style, in both cases over a fixed rudder system.

 

Given the above, it looks like a pretty compelling solution.

 

Wind_seeker: I'd guess that an interceptor works by trapping water against the underside of the transom. This will cause the flow over the hull to be diverted downwards at the stern. So, in effect, it's like dropping the aft section slightly, which is what a trim tab does.

 

Jambalaya: I agree that the aesthetics of most new 60s is lacking. They probably need the big coach roofs to get through the roll over test, though.

 

 

Don't understand why they go for a lighter rudder stuff...and then add two bloody wheels which raise the weight by 20 to 30 kg agaisnt a tiller...

Looking at Generali ( Finot Design, Yann Eliès) , they took them over during winter works

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Don't understand why they go for a lighter rudder stuff...and then add two bloody wheels which raise the weight by 20 to 30 kg agaisnt a tiller...

Looking at Generali ( Finot Design, Yann Eliès) , they took them over during winter works

The reason that team go for wheels over tillers, is that if you are driving hard down wind, it is very hard to do a big bear away, with a tiller. As it will generally end up in you chest. There rudder system is a cool concept but looks very clumsy in there execution. We did this over 10 years ago on my last boat, i wounder if they realize that the rudders will Ventilate at high speed, as air is dragged down the cassettes. Which will make the blade less effective, this happens with boards as well and was a big concern for the Volvo boats. I have spent a long time trying to cum up with a solution of sealing the cases.

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The reason that team go for wheels over tillers, is that if you are driving hard down wind, it is very hard to do a big bear away, with a tiller. As it will generally end up in you chest. There rudder system is a cool concept but looks very clumsy in there execution. We did this over 10 years ago on my last boat, i wounder if they realize that the rudders will Ventilate at high speed, as air is dragged down the cassettes. Which will make the blade less effective, this happens with boards as well and was a big concern for the Volvo boats. I have spent a long time trying to cum up with a solution of sealing the cases.

 

I thought that virtually "no one" was driving during a Vendée Globe

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I can't see 30 kg making any discernible impact on the performance of an 8 - 10 tonne (or however much a 60 weighs) boat.

 

The reason for wheels is because they offer a more comfortable positioning for steering for long periods. If a skipper finds that an advantage, then the weight penalty is sufficiently small for the performance benefits to outweigh that.

 

I got the impression that Yann Eliès didn't particularly like wheels, and that's part of what motivated him moving to a tiller set-up. Though he did seem to be pretty keen on making big weight savings, and was removing any fat that he thought was there. (I don't agree with removing the second keel ram, for example.)

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I can't see 30 kg making any discernible impact on the performance of an 8 - 10 tonne (or however much a 60 weighs) boat.

 

The reason for wheels is because they offer a more comfortable positioning for steering for long periods. If a skipper finds that an advantage, then the weight penalty is sufficiently small for the performance benefits to outweigh that.

 

I got the impression that Yann Eliès didn't particularly like wheels, and that's part of what motivated him moving to a tiller set-up. Though he did seem to be pretty keen on making big weight savings, and was removing any fat that he thought was there. (I don't agree with removing the second keel ram, for example.)

 

These boat are so wet you can't stay at the helm for long period !

more over , if you start thinking like that about weight, you end up with a bloody heavy boat,

Weight controlmust be done at each level , and you can't say " ok i can afford 30 kg more here"

no way

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Every single gram counts. Wheels add weight and complexity, and on a boat where the pilot will steer 60% or of the time..... well, I know what my choice is.

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I had the good fortune to steer an IMOCA 60 in a moderate breeze and while reefed and the tiller was still pretty heavy. Perhaps a wheel is lighter to use due to more gearing.

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Just back from ocean village,

They were doing some heeling test with class measurer i think

using pump to fill the inertia ballast

interesting to see

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Does this air system have a similar effect as the swimmers "speed suit" that is worn at all world class swim meets. Speedo have the latest that I believe traps air and breaks surface tention allowing less resistance for the swimmer(I think?), and if this is true would this tecknowlegy be deemed illegal ?

(sorry spell check not working)

(And yes Fucking Newbie)

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From Rogers Yacht design web site

 

"Innovative design

RYD has designed the new Artemis Ocean Racing II with a strong British design theme, style and influence throughout. She is powerful with an elegant styling.

 

What is immediately apparent when you look at the boat is that the hull is noticeably wider. It has been designed specifically with the Vendée Globe in mind to create greater stability without compromising performance.

 

The deck-stepped rig has been engineered to accommodate the North/South and South/North sections of the Vendée Globe. It is a big wing rig of outriggers - the RYD team have been working with aeronautical engineers and computational fluid dynamics specialist, Dave Egan, to optimise the performance of the rig.

 

The rotating rig is big and wide, with redundancy built into it. It has an internal mast track and 2 main halyards sheaves. The mast is completely unique in the world of IMOCA Open 60s and was developed in partnership with global experts.

 

The keel has been designed with the Vendée Globe in mind. It has been moulded out of stainless steel fin due to the number of failures with hi-tensile steel fins. Due to unreliable welding in the hi-tensile steel the team has opted for a more ductile material which has more reliable welding properties. Attached to the keel is a race faired stainless steel fin, with a low drag, low centre of gravity hydro-dynamic lead bulb optimised for performance."

 

Is Dave Egan, the same guy who worked on Prada with Doug Peterson?

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Does that air injection system blast air out of the holes or does the air get sucked down off the deck like on the speed windsurfers? Also what are interceptors? Other then that i think this boat is really cool.

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Nice to see some one try this type of rig again. Not sure how it will go, it’s a nightmare to make sails for. For those of you who don’t know, the reason the rig is bigger in the middle cord compared to the ends. When you rotate the rig the leach should close. It was tried on multis in the late eighties and early nineties. The reason to do this on a multi, would be that by closing the leach more you get better pointing and power, and at that time the boats were not that strong longitudinal . So this was a good solution. I think this boat may have to many new ideas in it a complaint from a former Rogers mini owner was the boat was to complicated, and you spent your life playing with things, and not sailing, but time will tell.

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Could someone explain me how the interceptor works???

 

I have seen some very disturbing pictures of Ecover sailing powered up upwind with the transom above the water... I guess that was the effect of the interceptor... But I can't figure out how this system is actually made.

 

It's hard to tell from the photo if the interceptor is out or not, since it only sticks out a little bit, but I'm guessing that the transom is out of the water as a result of the boat’s motion and/or ballast tank trimming.

 

I would not expect Ecover to use its interceptor in the light conditions shown in the photo. Because of the drag associated with it, I believe that it is a fairly specialized item: useful for waterline sailing by extending the stern wave beyond the transom, and for keeping the boat level while planing by diverting waterflow down at the transom. The trim tabs used on the Farr boats serve the same purpose, and get the bow up when needed by being pulled up, creating artificial rocker and suction. Not needing the ballast tanks to maintain proper trim presumably makes the added drag worthwhile.

 

Speaking of trim tabs, time for a rant detour: Can someone explain to me why Hugh Welbourne doesn’t get more commissions? He seems to be consistently ahead of the curve, whether through the trim tabs he used on Bols five years ago, or the overhanging bow chines on the new Hi-Fi (now being used by other designers). Someone give him some work already. Better yet, send me several million euros and I’ll give him some work!

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Rogers cheerfully admits: "If it all goes wrong you can blame me."

 

 

I hope not but I think he may regret that one with the high attrition rate in this fleet

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Rogers cheerfully admits: "If it all goes wrong you can blame me."

I hope not but I think he may regret that one with the high attrition rate in this fleet

 

She seems to have a lot of gadget...with blocks and sheaves everywhere on the deck...

My opion is , she looks lot more heavier than french imoca...I've been on Foncia ( Farr) , and as far as I can tell , you find less stuff...only where needed

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It's hard to tell from the photo if the interceptor is out or not, since it only sticks out a little bit, but I'm guessing that the transom is out of the water as a result of the boat’s motion and/or ballast tank trimming.

 

I would not expect Ecover to use its interceptor in the light conditions shown in the photo. Because of the drag associated with it, I believe that it is a fairly specialized item: useful for waterline sailing by extending the stern wave beyond the transom, and for keeping the boat level while planing by diverting waterflow down at the transom. The trim tabs used on the Farr boats serve the same purpose, and get the bow up when needed by being pulled up, creating artificial rocker and suction. Not needing the ballast tanks to maintain proper trim presumably makes the added drag worthwhile.

 

Speaking of trim tabs, time for a rant detour: Can someone explain to me why Hugh Welbourne doesn’t get more commissions? He seems to be consistently ahead of the curve, whether through the trim tabs he used on Bols five years ago, or the overhanging bow chines on the new Hi-Fi (now being used by other designers). Someone give him some work already. Better yet, send me several million euros and I’ll give him some work!

 

Ecover is using its interceptor upwind (seen on start of TJV and Transat B2B).

I have been looking around how the interceptor works. HUMPHREE has developed the concept of it.

The system is actually a sort of razor blade perpendicular to water flow, that generates Lift and Drag. But somehow at some speed it might be as good as a flap or even better, depending on Rn and Fn. The added Lift since it is situated on the leeside is adding boat stability therefore power.

It acts also as if it was lengthening the LWL... reducing the induced wave amplitude and increasing its wavelength.

This system looks a lot more easy to build and might be definitely lighter than the Virbac flap's. And if it does not work, you can still get it away... And concentrate on the basics!

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Humphree system is heavy like shit :) at least 25 kg for power, and 7 kilo a piece, need two at least.

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No you're not - most of the new generation boats are really grim with their oversized coach roofs - hugo boss excepted

i would also add safran to the exception list as well.... gwwaaarrr... that is a good looking boat, imho....

 

/c

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Is Dave Egan, the same guy who worked on Prada with Doug Peterson?

 

 

Yes, and TNZ before that, and shosholoza and UITG after

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I think this boat may have to many new ideas in it a complaint from a former Rogers mini owner was the boat was to complicated, and you spent your life playing with things, and not sailing, but time will tell.

How many minis and open class boats has Rogers drawn?

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To the best of my knowledge:

  • One Mini design.
  • One Class 40 design.
  • The carbon keel for the previous Hugo Boss.
  • Modifications to the old Artemis Open 60. (Former Hexagon, Pindar.)

The carbon keel was the one that failed in the Velux 5 Oceans, leading to the loss of the old Hugo Boss. There were problems with the construction of the keel head (I can't remember the details), and I don't know where the responsibility for that lies.

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Every single gram counts. Wheels add weight and complexity, and on a boat where the pilot will steer 60% or of the time..... well, I know what my choice is.

 

Alex Thompson claims that the wheels were less fatiguing and he didn't get a rash on his bum.

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The interceptor is a just a retractable Gurney flap, named for Dan Gurney old school racce car driver (F1 and sport cars back in the 60s) and race car builder extraordinaire. Still the only driver to win a race in a car of his own design. By stickign a Gurny flap on the trailing edge of something you get a big increase in lift for a small change in drag plus it's easy to construct. This Interceptor dealie is more complicated because it's retractable.

 

Now that wedge air injector thing is probably a rule breaker because (as somebody pointed out previously) it puts a kink in the hull. Probably doesn't do anything. The idea is that as the boat moves the static pressure of the water under the hull is lower than atmospheric so the air is pushed (sucked depending on how you look at it) under the boat. The bit about re-energizing the boundary layer is b/s because that is a means to eliminate separation (which should not be a problem) not turbulence. plus that wedge is going to trip the boundary layer and produce turbulence exactly RIGHT THERE. Skin drag is not the issue on these wide beasts it is wave drag and base drag. Also you'll have to close some valve when the boat's not moving fast enough or you might take on water. That's some wanker "technology".

 

That wing mast looks pornographic but he better hope he never has to climb the thing in a sea because he won't be able to hold on to anything... plus deck spreaders are gay...

 

The VARA rudders are slick. Only hope they paid their royalty to Mr Henderson...

 

Safran's look so good because of the paint job, the sexy coachroof, and the skiffy looking cockpit

 

Anyhow with a first time skipper and so little time before the VG he's got zero chance.

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Alex Thompson claims that the wheels were less fatiguing and he didn't get a rash on his bum.

 

Don't forget they did a double handed stuff...NOT single handed round the world race

alone you just don't drive that much

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wonder why nobody tries the whipstaff... it's very old skool but might be highly appropriate.

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The photos of the transom confuse me. It looks like the quadrant for the steering is right under the emergency hatch. Theer si a bllody great slot right under the hatch. How is this going to be watertight, and how is the skipper going to be able to get to the emergency hatch?

My money is still on Safran.

 

If you look at In the Hatch The skipper looks quite happy.....

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The interceptor is a just a retractable Gurney flap, named for Dan Gurney old school racce car driver (F1 and sport cars back in the 60s) and race car builder extraordinaire. Still the only driver to win a race in a car of his own design.

 

What about this kiwi bloke:

Bruce Mclaren

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I've been in Ocean Village today again and...Artemis is stil here.

I start to wonder if they have any issue with the boat, as I've never seen thel sailing and testing outside of the marina !!!

Update ?

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boats been out sailing, pics at Daily Sail

 

http://www.thedailysail.com/ism/articles.n...ment&Page=1

 

 

From Sail Karma:

Official withdrawal of Artemis

 

 

ARTEMIS OCEAN RACING RUNS OUT OF TIME

Jonny Malbon today confirmed that Artemis Ocean Racing II has withdrawn from The Artemis Transat, starting on Sunday May 11 in Plymouth. The team has been working tirelessly to get the state of the art IMOCA Open 60 ready for her qualifier, and ultimately The Artemis Transat, but it has not been possible to complete the extensive list of checks and sea trials in time.

 

Skipper Jonny Malbon commented: "We have all worked very, very hard to get the boat ready, but circumstances out of our control have meant that we have been delayed. We have arrived at this difficult decision to keep the project on track for the Vendée Globe."

 

"Our initial sailing has shown that the boat has huge potential but we simply have not had the time to complete the necessary workup to compete safely in The Artemis Transat. This has been a terrible decision to have to make, but I believe that it is the only decision that will ensure the team has a successful season and a well prepared Vendée campaign.

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Bump, anyone got any news?

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Bump, anyone got any news?

 

Just back from ocean village

The boat is still here...with the interceptor removed from the transom

I haven't seen them sailing a lot

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Can anyone on this forum explain to me how a totally inexperienced yachtsman ends up with the worlds most difficult boat surrounded by fools get sponsorship? I know the full story of the designer having "the deal" but seriosly the guy has no form and have heard that the shore crew were fired by better and more organised programs. Comments please

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Bump, anyone got any news?

 

 

Surprised? Can not imagine how the sponsor feels. Man for man a complete joke of a team

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Surprised? Can not imagine how the sponsor feels. Man for man a complete joke of a team

 

Yeah

even more "funny" when Artemis is the main sponsor of The Transat

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Surprised? Can not imagine how the sponsor feels. Man for man a complete joke of a team

 

Totally true. They even make Alex Thompson look good.

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Surprised? Can not imagine how the sponsor feels. Man for man a complete joke of a team

Some one spill the beans, looked at the shore crew, most seem to be ex-dinghy instuctors?? This doesn't look to good for Brits trying to break the French dominance in off shore sailing.

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Some one spill the beans, looked at the shore crew, most seem to be ex-dinghy instuctors?? This doesn't look to good for Brits trying to break the French dominance in off shore sailing.

 

Spilt the beans shit where does one start!

 

1. Best Brit Alex was never entered so cool.

2. Brian Thompson - excellant but no budget and the first ever inshore 60 designed by Moose.

3. Dee Caffari - whatever but has at least sailed solo.

4. Jonny "nightclub" Malbon - what can you say the guy has never done any sailing.

5. Sam Davies - old boat who really cares

6. Mike Golding - one of the best and may do well with a conservative boat.

 

So there is the state of UK solo sailors. As for the shore crew probably equally proportionate.

 

The Truth

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the brits have one hope for the Vendee, the same as its always been

 

1. Mike Golding, proven in all areas, RTW 4 times?

2. Brian Thompson - the boat has never sailed, wont be ready

3. Alex Thompson - wont finish

4. Jonny Malborn - wont start

5. Sam Davis - will do a great job and finish well

6. Dee Cafari - will finish in time for next 2012 vendee if shes lucky

 

Heard jonny is a good guy but Simon rogers runs the artemis programme and whats he ever done, oh yeah designed thompson's last keel. Artemis must be crazy investing all that dollar with him, what a dumbass he is!

 

should have gone farr

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1 MIke Golding will stop after this Vendee.

 

Best upcoming Uk mini sailor in last decade: Phil Sharp

 

Hope someone can deduct it logical and sponsorship will go to PhillyS

 

Alex is good,

Brian is good but seems to have lost focus (or something, first Artimes, then Pindar...).

SAm is good, lots of respect for her in Figaro circles.

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1 MIke Golding will stop after this Vendee.

 

Best upcoming Uk mini sailor in last decade: Phil Sharp

 

Hope someone can deduct it logical and sponsorship will go to PhillyS

 

Alex is good,

Brian is good but seems to have lost focus (or something, first Artimes, then Pindar...).

SAm is good, lots of respect for her in Figaro circles.

 

 

shame humphreys hasnt got a boat this time as his boat damage last time would have made any other skipper give up

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the brits have one hope for the Vendee, the same as its always been

 

1. Mike Golding, proven in all areas, RTW 4 times?

2. Brian Thompson - the boat has never sailed, wont be ready

3. Alex Thompson - wont finish

4. Jonny Malborn - wont start

5. Sam Davis - will do a great job and finish well

6. Dee Cafari - will finish in time for next 2012 vendee if shes lucky

 

Heard jonny is a good guy but Simon rogers runs the artemis programme and whats he ever done, oh yeah designed thompson's last keel. Artemis must be crazy investing all that dollar with him, what a dumbass he is!

 

should have gone farr

That's quite arroguant to say that

Who are you to tell these peoples what they can and can't do ?

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Arroguant no, harsh yes but it aint farr from the truth. IMO

 

1. Golding is proven around the world and raced all these frogs and beaten them, all of them at some point

 

2. Brian has little Open 60 experience, the boat is unknown and has yet even to qualify let alone prove the mast will stand up. Any boat not qualified by now is in serious trouble, how many miles will Brian put on before the race, 5,000. Its not enough. Brian himself as the quality to win given a few years to build up but not this time.

 

3. Thompson is fast yes but pushes too hard, he retired from the Vendee and got rescued in the Velux. His boat has done the miles and is fast in heavy winds but can he hold it together, I dont think so.

 

4. Jonny is way too late, its his first solo race on a boat designed by Simon Rogers who has done lets face if fuck all. Jonny has no experience and probably had little relevant input in the boat. If he gets 5k on his boat by the start he will be lucky and luckier if his dumbass mast don't call down. By the sounds of a few others in this forum they think the same.

 

5. Sam is doing great in the transat on a boat 10 years old. the boat is proven and she has done the figaro which counts for a lot. give the girl a new boat and she would compete for the podium i'm sure.

 

6. Dee ain't got a hope, I thought that before but look at her current form in the transat. sure she can sail single-handed around the world, sure she's one brave lady but can she compete with a new IMOCA 60, can she fuck. what a waste of money.

 

Come on Romain am I farr off the mark? Bukkie and Leo you seem to have the inside knowledge, when you get to the bones of it, am I talking crap.

 

jeeesus

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Arroguant no, harsh yes but it aint farr from the truth. IMO

 

1. Golding is proven around the world and raced all these frogs and beaten them, all of them at some point

 

2. Brian has little Open 60 experience, the boat is unknown and has yet even to qualify let alone prove the mast will stand up. Any boat not qualified by now is in serious trouble, how many miles will Brian put on before the race, 5,000. Its not enough. Brian himself as the quality to win given a few years to build up but not this time.

 

3. Thompson is fast yes but pushes too hard, he retired from the Vendee and got rescued in the Velux. His boat has done the miles and is fast in heavy winds but can he hold it together, I dont think so.

 

4. Jonny is way too late, its his first solo race on a boat designed by Simon Rogers who has done lets face if fuck all. Jonny has no experience and probably had little relevant input in the boat. If he gets 5k on his boat by the start he will be lucky and luckier if his dumbass mast don't call down. By the sounds of a few others in this forum they think the same.

 

5. Sam is doing great in the transat on a boat 10 years old. the boat is proven and she has done the figaro which counts for a lot. give the girl a new boat and she would compete for the podium i'm sure.

 

6. Dee ain't got a hope, I thought that before but look at her current form in the transat. sure she can sail single-handed around the world, sure she's one brave lady but can she compete with a new IMOCA 60, can she fuck. what a waste of money.

 

Come on Romain am I farr off the mark? Bukkie and Leo you seem to have the inside knowledge, when you get to the bones of it, am I talking crap.

 

jeeesus

 

You may have some points right, but I just think you should show a bit more respect to all of them

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It's not often that Jesus asks for me advice, but I'll give it a go. :)

  1. I agree that Mike Golding is the strongest contender. He was competitive in the previous Ecover, so can take the fight to the French. But the new boat hasn't had much time on the water, and he's still ironing out reliability issues.
  2. Brian Thompson's done the Route du Rhum and Transat Jacques Vabre. Plus he spent a season running the Artemis team, as well as being involved with Estrella Damm, and did a couple of seasons in the Minis. So I think that he's got the experience to do well. However the boat still isn't sailing, and there's uncertainty about Pindar's continued backing. So I think there could be issues with preparation.
  3. I'd hope that Alex Thomson has calmed down after his experiences breaking his previous boat. He got around the Barcelona World Race without any serious problems barring the rudders, and Hugo Boss is a rocketship in heavier conditions. I think that he'll either break the boat in the Southern Ocean, or do well.
  4. Whilst Artemis is Rogers's first Open 60, he's worked on Minis and a Class 40 design. So, again, he's not a complete newcomer to these sorts of boats. And Jonny Malbon has worked on Open 60s for a long time, as well as being part of the Team 888 campaign, so he's not a complete newcomer either. But I agree that he lacks solo race experience, and the boat needs a lot more time than is available to shake out any problems.
  5. I agree about Sam, and she's got a tiny budget. However I think that there's the potential for her to place highly if Roxy proves reliable, and the new boats don't. Could be the tortoise to the newer boats hares.
  6. Dee's been having a lot of power issues with Aviva during the Transat, which will make her position appear worse than it actually is. I don't think that she's a contender, but her campaign is about her becoming the first women to sail non-stop around the world in both directions, so her final position isn't that important.

Sam, Jonny and Dee could come good for the 2012 Vendee, and there might be an element of building for the next race in the Artemis programme. All three are young enough to do another two or three iterations of the race.

 

Perhaps the trouble with the British teams is that most of them are new this time round. The successful French boats all have seasoned skippers, whereas the newer teams are also struggling to make an impact. Yann Elies and Armel Le Cleac'h haven't exactly shone, despite being hardened Figaro veterans. Marc Thiercelin's boat's still due to launch...

 

And, as Romain says, all of the above deserve respect. They're all doing things that most of the readers of this forum (with one or two exceptions, such as Haji) will never achieve.

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It's not often that Jesus asks for me advice, but I'll give it a go. :)
  1. I agree that Mike Golding is the strongest contender. He was competitive in the previous Ecover, so can take the fight to the French. But the new boat hasn't had much time on the water, and he's still ironing out reliability issues.
  2. Brian Thompson's done the Route du Rhum and Transat Jacques Vabre. Plus he spent a season running the Artemis team, as well as being involved with Estrella Damm, and did a couple of seasons in the Minis. So I think that he's got the experience to do well. However the boat still isn't sailing, and there's uncertainty about Pindar's continued backing. So I think there could be issues with preparation.
  3. I'd hope that Alex Thomson has calmed down after his experiences breaking his previous boat. He got around the Barcelona World Race without any serious problems barring the rudders, and Hugo Boss is a rocketship in heavier conditions. I think that he'll either break the boat in the Southern Ocean, or do well.
  4. Whilst Artemis is Rogers's first Open 60, he's worked on Minis and a Class 40 design. So, again, he's not a complete newcomer to these sorts of boats. And Jonny Malbon has worked on Open 60s for a long time, as well as being part of the Team 888 campaign, so he's not a complete newcomer either. But I agree that he lacks solo race experience, and the boat needs a lot more time than is available to shake out any problems.
  5. I agree about Sam, and she's got a tiny budget. However I think that there's the potential for her to place highly if Roxy proves reliable, and the new boats don't. Could be the tortoise to the newer boats hares.
  6. Dee's been having a lot of power issues with Aviva during the Transat, which will make her position appear worse than it actually is. I don't think that she's a contender, but her campaign is about her becoming the first women to sail non-stop around the world in both directions, so her final position isn't that important.

Sam, Jonny and Dee could come good for the 2012 Vendee, and there might be an element of building for the next race in the Artemis programme. All three are young enough to do another two or three iterations of the race.

 

Perhaps the trouble with the British teams is that most of them are new this time round. The successful French boats all have seasoned skippers, whereas the newer teams are also struggling to make an impact. Yann Elies and Armel Le Cleac'h haven't exactly shone, despite being hardened Figaro veterans. Marc Thiercelin's boat's still due to launch...

 

And, as Romain says, all of the above deserve respect. They're all doing things that most of the readers of this forum (with one or two exceptions, such as Haji) will never achieve.

 

Yann and Armel have both won the Figaro...Don't think they need to show anything more.

The Orma 60 fleet is just indredibly STRONG and achieving 5th in the next vendee globe would be a huge performance

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I don't think I phrased my previous post well. :(

 

I meant to point out that Elies and La Cleac'h were highly successful in the Figaro, which is probably the toughest offshore circuit, but their performance in the Open 60s has been less impressive. Going on their past record, and having new boats, I'd have expected them to be challenging for podium places.

 

Of course I've just proven myself to be an idiot, as I checked the Artemis Transat website and seen that they're occupying third and fourth right now. (That'll make Speng happy.) :lol:

 

I agree about the IMOCA fleet (I'm guessing that's what you meant) being strong right now. There are probably ten boats that could win it, and I suspect that breakages will play a huge part in determining who the winner is.

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I don't think I phrased my previous post well. :(

 

I meant to point out that Elies and La Cleac'h were highly successful in the Figaro, which is probably the toughest offshore circuit, but their performance in the Open 60s has been less impressive. Going on their past record, and having new boats, I'd have expected them to be challenging for podium places.

 

Of course I've just proven myself to be an idiot, as I checked the Artemis Transat website and seen that they're occupying third and fourth right now. (That'll make Speng happy.) :lol:

 

I agree about the IMOCA fleet (I'm guessing that's what you meant) being strong right now. There are probably ten boats that could win it, and I suspect that breakages will play a huge part in determining who the winner is.

 

The passage of the Ice-gate is in the IMOCA fleet very catchy right now. Both leaders Vincent Riou and Loick Peron are in a tight battle. Wind is almost nothing and they are 240 or something miles from the ice gate.

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Bump, any news? have they been out yet?

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Here are some pics I took of the new and old Artemises in Ocean Village back in April. The chord on the new Artemis' mast is huge and one wonders how it'll perform with a reefed sail since the chord isn't constant. The VARA style rudders are very simple designs and the cokpit is well enclosed. The new mast isn't much (if at all) taller than than the old boats but the hull is clearly more powerful.

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Nice pictures - thanks Speng.

 

The old Artemis dropped her mast in the TJV last year, so that'll be her replacement rig. I don't know if it's been built to the same specs as the previous one, or if it's taller.

 

There was talk of using the older boat for two boat testing with the new one, so it's possible that they've fitted a taller mast to give a closer comparison.

 

Personally I like the VARA rudders. Having heard Simon Rogers talk about them, they make a lot of sense. Kick ups are too prone to breakages, in his opinion.

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Alex Thompson claims that the wheels were less fatiguing and he didn't get a rash on his bum.

 

 

Now that's funny! Well done!

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