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...re: an earlier 'conversation',,,,,I just received my PHRF # for BC-phrf...... 144 .......I have no idea how that relates to anything** yet,,,will find out more this winter I guess,,,but this might be useful(??) information :mellow:

 

....**....I've always considered ''friends don't let friends race handicap'',,,but some winter events will be better than naught!

 

.

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I'm leaning towards Doyle / Boston with this boat. They have great knowledge of the U20 which could be passed down here.

Have you noticed that the U20s are migrating to CF spars? Ask Mr. Boston what he thinks.

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When the mast begins to pump on a downhill sleigh ride you'll be grateful for CF. You can always start with AL...and upgrade to CF when you break the first stick.

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Tin rigs have been around for decades and now, of course, some tell us we have to have a CF stick or it will pump and break. The issue here is not if a carbon stick can be better, it can at times, but whether for an 18 ft boat it makes enough of a difference to spend three times the price. If you built the boat yourself and do all the rigging and deck work yourself, then perhaps the cost doesn't seem so bad. But if you start looking at the ultimate costs of a possible production boat with a tin rig or an carbon rig, it starts to make a huge difference. Five or Six thousand dollars in retail costs will make or break a class like this. And for what? No one can really yet determine if there is enough of a benefit to justify the carbon.

 

What I have seen through the years is that the new ideas and high tech gizmos get introduced and suddenly, they become the new must have. The first are often also the ones that can spend the most to get there so if someone convinces them a carbon trinket is the way to go for an extra tenth of boat speed, they buy it. What wins for them really is the extra 10% of effort they put out in crew work and being prepared.

 

I am always reminded of Roger Penske years ago in Trans Am. Their car was slow in practice and they ended up scratching their heads trying to figure out why. When they did, rather than just fix it and go, Roger had someone publicly wax the inner fender wells. As they when out and were suddenly faster, several other teams pulled their cars in and waxed those inner fenders. Sometimes it isn't the new and the greatest thing to do, it is the tried and true. Someone is just foolin ya that the latest is the bestest.

 

Carbon rigs, hi tech sails, all of that has it's place. The question here is does it matter for the i550? Probably not.

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Do you feel competitive with that rating Couch? Would be interesting to see how you do with that rating against U20's etc..

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Do you feel competitive with that rating Couch? Would be interesting to see how you do with that rating against U20's etc..

..

 

.........it is what it is---I have no idea how that relates to anything yet,,I'm an OD sailor,,will find out more this winter I guess

 

...afaik,,,phrf creates a level playing field for different people in different boats to get drunk all at the same time,,,and after a while some mathheads come out of the back room,,,announces winners,,,,,and then some sailors cheer and drink more,,,and other sailors get all quiet and cluster in corners,muttering to each other. :mellow:

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Thats what it seemed like from my 2 experiences so far on a J29. Have you ever Doublehanded her? I'm just interested to understand your experience with the boat and the points at with she excells And where she struggles. Oh yea can someone who's 2m Tall sleep on this thing. Anyone using a boom tent?

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Carbon rigs, hi tech sails, all of that has it's place. The question here is does it matter for the i550? Probably not.

No question about it...for some it will simply be TOTAL XS.

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So now that fear has been thrown out there, how many i550 masts have broke?

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So now that fear has been thrown out there, how many i550 masts have broke?

 

 

I know of two on the east coast. One had a reused mast from a salt water boat and he replaced it with a new Z Spar Al rig for under $1k. The other boat lost the mast and has since picked up a new Dwyer aluminum stick. There was another Midwest boat that the (CF?) rig that came down, but that was attributed to a compression post failure.

 

 

For under $500 I'm starting with an aluminum Viper rig. With the inner sleeve from the base to just above the spreadersIt is heavier. However with a 2012 quote of $6K for CF stick, boom and prod I will not see one soon.

 

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Al Viper rig will be bomb proof also... a few still around, starting to be like hen's teeth though..

 

So now that fear has been thrown out there, how many i550 masts have broke?

 

 

I know of two on the east coast. One had a reused mast from a salt water boat and he replaced it with a new Z Spar Al rig for under $1k. The other boat lost the mast and has since picked up a new Dwyer aluminum stick. There was another Midwest boat that the (CF?) rig that came down, but that was attributed to a compression post failure.

 

 

 

For under $500 I'm starting with an aluminum Viper rig. With the inner sleeve from the base to just above the spreadersIt is heavier. However with a 2012 quote of $6K for CF stick, boom and prod I will not see one soon.

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Just for the record, we have beaten other i550's more Thant they beat us, and we had a tin stick where as one had a full professionally build carbon stick and the other had a carbon tipped rig. In all reality it's how you sail these boats and get used to their characteristics that will set you apart out the front.

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Who was the builder of the Viper mast ? Anyone know ?

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Who was the builder of the Viper mast ? Anyone know ?

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...yer might have to enter dangerous viper territory on that one :mellow::o

 

....you can go fish at the viper site for used ones as well....usually $4-700used

 

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I may have to do that, I just cannot for the life of me putting out an extra 5 grand where it really isn't needed. So far no one has come up with a legitimate reason to do so for the spar. That's money that could be spent on travelling to events. Same with the prod. It will be fixed. But I do like the idea of maybe having it on the deck like a U20. Will give a bit more thought to this. Pretty confident it will be a Dacron main as well. No need for exotics there. More travelling money. Not totally stuck on the t keel. We have so many weeds where I sail that I will be forever cleaning. Maybe a Viper / U 20 keel if that's possible. Or I may just have to suck it up with the t bulb.

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I may have to do that, I just cannot for the life of me putting out an extra 5 grand where it really isn't needed. So far no one has come up with a legitimate reason to do so for the spar. That's money that could be spent on travelling to events. Same with the prod. It will be fixed. But I do like the idea of maybe having it on the deck like a U20. Will give a bit more thought to this. Pretty confident it will be a Dacron main as well. No need for exotics there. More travelling money. Not totally stuck on the t keel. We have so many weeds where I sail that I will be forever cleaning. Maybe a Viper / U 20 keel if that's possible. Or I may just have to suck it up with the t bulb.

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.....spars...yeh TTB and I concur that it's not the spar that's winning races--and it's SOoooo satisfying to beat carbon-pimped boats with an old ALU-spar :)

...Bow-poles...I just don't understand why you'd 'fix' it....there's a huge perf difference especially in light winds,,and not difficult to do!...an advantage of the under-deckers is that they can fit a slightly bigger chute,as it's currently only the spar-lengths that limit sail-size to any degree.

 

...keels,,yeh I agree--don't like having bulb forward of blade--but unless you have your blade angled aft(not likely),,you better be doing some backing-down anyways :mellow:

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I may have to do that, I just cannot for the life of me putting out an extra 5 grand where it really isn't needed.

People are spouting some really inaccurate $$$ for carbon rigs. Let's get a few items clarified...

 

Viper 640 is a fractional rig... So you are going to have some $$$ in modifications to carry a masthead kite. The rig is not as "bomber" as claimed for a direct application in the i550 otherwise the PDX build would have used off the shelf Viper 640 rigs instead of having CST do a custom build.

 

Next we need to compare apples to apples...

 

All up, that's mast, boom, sprit, spreaders (all carbon), luff track & feeder, all standing rigging (in Dyform, not 1x19) and including turnbuckles, swaging and T-balls, all running rigging (sprit hardware, articulation lines/hardware, all halyards, exit blocks and cam cleats, outhaul, GNAV (carbon), custom fab mast crane and halyard mounting pads, and professional assembly and install was $5200. DIY would have been $4200, but for a grand nobody wanted to screw with the time consuming task of assembling and fitting out the spars.

So apples to apples? We are hearing $1k for a tin mast... What is the all up cost? A set of carbon spars can be had for $2600 (mast, box boom, 2 pair airfoil spreaders, sprit, and all reinforcing sleeves and mounting collars).

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I am in Ontario Canada... I only know of two other boats in my area. one in Napanee...not sure how far along his build is, and another in Toronto which I believe is moving along quite well. Are there any other boats on Lake Ontario?

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Same with the prod. It will be fixed. But I do like the idea of maybe having it on the deck like a U20. Will give a bit more thought to this.

Bow-poles...I just don't understand why you'd 'fix' it....there's a huge perf difference especially in light winds,,and not difficult to do!...an advantage of the under-deckers is that they can fit a slightly bigger chute,as it's currently only the spar-lengths that limit sail-size to any degree.

Constructing an articulating sprit above or below deck is no more difficult than a fixed sprit. In fact it's probably easier because you don't have to dick with the geometry to get the extended sprit to be on centerline and clear interior structures or deck gear when retracted.

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I am in Ontario Canada... I only know of two other boats in my area. one in Napanee...not sure how far along his build is, and another in Toronto which I believe is moving along quite well. Are there any other boats on Lake Ontario?

Check the map... Assume that it's still being maintained.

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All up, that's mast, boom, sprit, spreaders (all carbon), luff track & feeder, all standing rigging (in Dyform, not 1x19) and including turnbuckles, swaging and T-balls, all running rigging (sprit hardware, articulation lines/hardware, all halyards, exit blocks and cam cleats, outhaul, GNAV (carbon), custom fab mast crane and halyard mounting pads, and professional assembly and install was $5200. DIY would have been $4200, but for a grand nobody wanted to screw with the time consuming task of assembling and fitting out the spars.

So apples to apples? We are hearing $1k for a tin mast... What is the all up cost? A set of carbon spars can be had for $2600 (mast, box boom, 2 pair airfoil spreaders, sprit, and all reinforcing sleeves and mounting collars).

 

Last price I ran on the DM4 rig was last year but it came to about $1700.00 to $1900.00 depending upon how much you did and if you want synthetic rigging to reduce weight. In other words, the needed blocks, standing rigging and all fittings are part of that deal. I even added for a boom kicker to make it a closer comparison. An average frt charge is also included. A GNAV is not needed unless you go to 295 in P. If $ 4,200.00 gives you everything you need ,with average frt, it isn't a bad deal but it is still 230% of a tin rig. Unless it means you can't possibly win unless you have a carbon stick on a i550, is it worht it? And then, is the i550 the boat for you? Seems like it would drive the cost of a production boat (the only right way to compare them) close to that of the VX and similar so why then an i550? It means to me that the i550 will always be stuck in this in between area with a few boats sailing, a number more under build and never really getting the traction it deserves.

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I wouldn't have asked the question if I hadn't looked already. Boats go up for sale..boats move. etc. I know with the New York state along Lake Ontario..most cities / towns are about 20 miles off of the lake even though you would sail on Lake Ontario.

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I wouldn't have asked the question if I hadn't looked already. Boats go up for sale..boats move. etc. I know with the New York state along Lake Ontario..most cities / towns are about 20 miles off of the lake even though you would sail on Lake Ontario.

The underlying problem is that there are 500+ plans/licenses floating around out there, but nobody really knows how many boats are actually, seriously, under construction.

Your best bet is to find a group of friends to all build your own OD fleet. Start with 10-12 people seriously interested and you'll probably get 4-5 boats built and 2-3 add on builds... That was our experience at least.

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

 

 

I think that pony left the barn a while back. :D

Still, Eric has the best idea, group build locally under a common typeform.

Hey that could be our new bumper-sticker, " i550: Think Globally, Build Locally "

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

There is a clear set of OD rules and we ARE doing a bunch of OD events! We look to have 6-9 boats racing regularly in our region and more coming...

Be the spark plug where you are and make it happen... Lots of work and tons of time to coordinate, but we did it and are seeing the rewards of being a fun group sailing the boats regularly all over the NW!

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

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..I imagine you've explored the various 550 sites,,,but if not,,here's a thread that looks at your question in some detail http://i550class.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=247 ..you might have to register to read it..... i550class.org

 

......it seems pretty easy to build a boat that'll fit both rules ;)

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bTW, I think I am up to $13.2 K with sails, rig, pulley-bits and hull/appendages all paid for, inclu paint.

 

[edit: actually that may be high by about 1,500...will have to check on that]


next expense is a trailer, but I think I am all paid up otherwise. Course, we got the boss deal on the
Carbon farber rig, pole, boom and prod-slot through C-Tech back when the NZ currency was in a total nosedive.

Also Ullman seriously underbid a bunch of other lofts to seal the deal.
Huge thanks to Jerry Latell/Ullman sails in Deltaville.

post-768-0-90089300-1382472704_thumb.jpg

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Nice looking boat Tim Ford..

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

 

I think that some here keep hoping this is a one design and yet the same people have grossly different rigs, foils, decks and even hull shapes in their fleets. The PDX guys actually come the closet but if you read their blogs, they did change the hull shape somewhat during their builds. I happen to believe that if people come here for info expecting a one design, they are more apt to leave when they find out the facts. Present the boat as it really is and perhaps more will be able to see the benefits that a boat like this can offer. This is a nice little restricted development boat and is a lot of fun to build and to sail. The few times that i550's have met together so far have shown that the little difference in rigs and hulls do not seem to make any real difference in the end.

 

If you really want a one design, then the hull specs have to be a lot tighter, the prod set to one style, the rig one type and the foils all the same. The issue to me is and will always be, no one who has built their boat in good faith to the older and even current rules can be left out. Grandfathered in, perhaps, but not left out. Do a tight rule set with that in mind, and you may have something. May.

 

If there is ever a production builder, they will get to write the new rules. Then perhaps it will head towards more of that one design some seem to prefer. If that builder is smart, however, he will make sure every homebuilt boat built to a real previous rule set is included and can sail those OD regattas. That takes advantage of what has been done so far and simply adds to the fleets quickly and builds from that momentum.

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thanks Jus, it looks a lot better in pix than in person.

 

Totes is right, someone once said boat builders are dreamers and tend to want to tweak things their own way when they get in the shed. So a strict OD gaggle of boats was probably a bit of a reach from the get-go. I think Chad mighta said it, actually.

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

 

I think that some here keep hoping this is a one design and yet the same people have grossly different rigs, foils, decks and even hull shapes in their fleets. The PDX guys actually come the closet but if you read their blogs, they did change the hull shape somewhat during their builds. ........................snip............................. The few times that i550's have met together so far have shown that the little difference in rigs and hulls do not seem to make any real difference in the end. ........................snip.......................

..

 

.........

...yes,,,it's getting quite clear,,it -almost- doesn't matter what yer do--they all go the same speed!

......the racing so far has been more about the boat handling & strategy than set-up...just like elToro's..

 

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I believe there also needs one set of clear OD rules for everyone to follow. There is absolutely no reason that there cant be a bunch of OD events for this boat. All it takes is commitment, dedication, and a true desire for EVERYONE to get along.

.

 

..I imagine you've explored the various 550 sites,,,but if not,,here's a thread that looks at your question in some detail http://i550class.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=247 ..you might have to register to read it..... i550class.org

 

......it seems pretty easy to build a boat that'll fit both rules ;)

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.....reviewing the thread above,,,I'm really impressed with the attitudes portrayed....

.......perhaps time DOES heal all wounds(??)..... I really hope so!!..

 

........I imagine there's a -few- of those 100's of plan-holders who might actually start making space in their man-cave's if they saw some unity among the groups---let's face it,,there's some regrets we have of the past....does that mean we have to live in them forever????

 

..methinks the comment below,from the end of the thread,makes a good starting point for a discussion........I motion that we perhaps meet in a -neutral- enough territory,(,maybe TXS's site?),,,,,,and have a little 'check-in'' ;) ............

 

''Only 2 significant i550class rules stop the current PDX fleet boats from measuring in under i550Class rules. They are the same ones that effect Chad. Max P of 285" and cabin height or 42" from hull bottom. This group/class just needs to come together in some kind of official way to adopt the rules and then amend the rules as they want and then move on.''

 

...As far as I see it,,,one class's rules already welcome the other,,,if there were some -small- mods here and there within the 2 rules,,we'd perhaps achieve a bit more cohesion!!??........it sure seems like that's the sentiment of many!!

 

................let's leave those old rusty hatchets at home,,make a 'boat' we're proud of!! :rolleyes:

 

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I honestly don't think that the rigs, or foils on these boats will make a difference in speed from one boat to the other. The decks and hull shapes...yes...to some extent, but probably not very much. ( one or two bad or good tacks would fix that ). As far sails..quite possibly that would be the biggest problem. I think the tolerances are just too wide open. Some people have the mentality of go big or go home..light wind probably a major advantage, heavy wind...not so much. Not sure what hull number it was, but it had crazy sized head on its main. Almost bordered on ridiculous.

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I honestly don't think that the rigs, or foils on these boats will make a difference in speed from one boat to the other. The decks and hull shapes...yes...to some extent, but probably not very much. ( one or two bad or good tacks would fix that ). As far sails..quite possibly that would be the biggest problem. I think the tolerances are just too wide open. Some people have the mentality of go big or go home..light wind probably a major advantage, heavy wind...not so much. Not sure what hull number it was, but it had crazy sized head on its main. Almost bordered on ridiculous.

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...aww,C'mon--one thing at a time..it'd be easy to overwhelm the question I posed above....and cause another ground-hog day,,all-over-again,and again,and again :huh:

 

.....in regards to sails,,,I'd bet a simple rule ..-1 set per season-,,, would tend to 'center' people's sail-wardrobes enough as time goes ;)

 

 

....other thoughts.....

...my impression is that some got rattled in the past by Eric openly playing with shapes----to whatever degree is true.
.....tolerances are a tough call in a U-build class.Now that it's getting clear that rocker variances are somewhat irrelevant-the concerns of the past perhaps also become irrelevant!?!
......in terms of hull shape issues,,,what simple change,addition to the NA rules do you think would accommodate the -one- sticking point that stops the NArule from being NAversal?????...perhaps it's simply something in the pre-amble about the intent & spirit of tolerances is to allow for unintentional variances in builds???.
.....**...please forgive me if I'm displaying some naievity on all this--I came into the i550 scene after the big S-fight was over,,and my memory has the delightful quality of not remembering who said what anyways,,so it's rather impossible to hold a grudge,,even if I were to remember what it was!! :wacko:
..........but it's pretty easy-peasey to recognize a group who'd love to find some way of unifying for the common good! :mellow:
.....it'd be important to develop a set of 'rules' that reflects what the class is--a set of builder-tinkerers who sometimes even sail!!.....the short,,wide-ass platform creates a situation where pretty-much -any- big variation from a base will at best create something that's a speed benefit in -some- conditions,,as much as it becomes a liability in others!..... we already seem to have a set of parameters that define the base platform,,with only a couple of details to sort,,,and otherwise,,all the wildcard variations --twin rudders,,monster mains,,,,chad's crazy gizmo-boat,,,my (as-yet-unannounced) unobtanium whatchermahooverich,,can all have an interesting place in perhaps what could be a '5-year-set' of rules in the class' evolution.
.............lets get creative here!! :)

.

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I honestly don't think that the rigs, or foils on these boats will make a difference in speed from one boat to the other. The decks and hull shapes...yes...to some extent, but probably not very much. ( one or two bad or good tacks would fix that ). As far sails..quite possibly that would be the biggest problem. I think the tolerances are just too wide open. Some people have the mentality of go big or go home..light wind probably a major advantage, heavy wind...not so much. Not sure what hull number it was, but it had crazy sized head on its main. Almost bordered on ridiculous.

You are missing almost everything about the rules relating to sails... Limit the rig dimensions and keep it simple. Put what ever you want on so long as it fits. The sail size and shape will quickly homogenize, but a few will still experiment. That's what this class IS all about.

 

The deck shape will make the boat faster? That's not even a logical statement.

 

The foil shapes won't make a difference?? The foils definitely make more difference than minor variations in hull shape and are the one place you can actually optimize.

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Yep, you're right TG.

 

I think he meant some deck variations could help more with hiking, limit or provide more RM, that kind of thing. But as far as the sails, hell yes, bring it.

 

And foils, no question about it, they'll be a game changer once things shake down. I'm already thinking about reloading the rudder and the boat hasn't even gotten wet yet :rolleyes:

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The only issues with decks have been the cabin (PDX style VS full cabin, lenght of cockpit and the one with the now two boats that have raised side decks, which wasn't really a 10% "advantage", it was something more like 1.1%.

 

None of the above should be real issues except perhaps the length of the cockpit and even that could be handled with a sailing rule instruction for OD events as to how and where you can hike.

 

Sails also can be easily limited so that those odd sails are not legal for OD events.

 

Foils should have be limted before if that was an important issue, but a bit late to do it now. I think however that if one set of foils became the need to have, it is not a big deal to build a new set and add to your boat.

 

Rudders, well the elimination of inboard rudders by one class was simply a punitive thing because they did not like the two people who had done it to date. It should not be an issue. Even on the very off chance an inboard rudder became the thing to beat, it can be added by anybody realitively easily. Considering the TTB moved his rudder further out to solve an issue might mean the inboard thing will be a bust.

 

Hull shape - like I have said before, the only issue is fear of what someone else might do and so far, all evidence says no real issue here. Elroy - hull 136 - DOES NOT PASS ANY OF THE RULE SETS AS IT IS so having a boat like that result from either rule set is not a concern. Still, neither the NA rules nor the i550class rule sets prevent various modifications that may or may not give a performance advantage as they are today. However, if you wish to restrict the possiblity further then make sure everyone is grandfathered in who built in good faith to older rule sets and no issue possible from anyone. To move towards more of a one design "hull" changes will have to be made in, perferably, the actual plan sets as well as the rules.

 

 

Everyone would be better off if a fair and single rule set existed for the i550 world but the requirements of the various sailing venues need to be considered with the cabin issues and even the sails so yes, OK to restrict our little restricted develpement class a bit further if done with care and respect to those building.

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The only issues with decks have been the cabin (PDX style VS full cabin, lenght of cockpit and the one with the now two boats that have raised side decks, which wasn't really a 10% "advantage", it was something more like 1.1%.

 

None of the above should be real issues except perhaps the length of the cockpit and even that could be handled with a sailing rule instruction for OD events as to how and where you can hike.

 

Sails also can be easily limited so that those odd sails are not legal for OD events.

 

Foils should have be limted before if that was an important issue, but a bit late to do it now. I think however that if one set of foils became the need to have, it is not a big deal to build a new set and add to your boat.

 

Rudders, well the elimination of inboard rudders by one class was more a punitive thing because they did not like the two people who had done it to date. It should not be an issue. Even on the very off chance an inboard rudder became the thing to beat, it can be added by anybody realitively easily. Considering that TTB moved his rudder further out to solve an issue might mean the inboard thing will be a bust.

 

Hull shape - like I have said before, the only issue is fear of what someone else might do and so far, all evidence says no real issue here. Elroy - hull 136 - DOES NOT PASS ANY OF THE RULE SETS AS IT IS so having a boat like that result from either rule set is not a concern. Still, neither the NA rules nor the i550class rule sets prevent various modifications that may or may not give a performance advantage as they are today. However, if you wish to restrict the possiblity further then make sure everyone is grandfathered in who built in good faith to older rule sets and no issue possible from anyone. To move towards more of a one design "hull" changes will have to be made in the actual plan sets as well as the rules. I say this in part because technically under all the current rules, the designed shape is the one that fits the limits of the rules.

 

Everyone would be better off if a fair and single rule set existed for the i550 world but the requirements of the various sailing venues need to be considered with the cabin issues and even the sails so yes, OK to restrict our little restricted develpement class a bit further if done with care and respect to those building.

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... and even that could be handled with a sailing rule instruction for OD events as to how and where you can hike.

 

Sails also can be easily limited so that those odd sails are not legal for OD events.

The last thing any class wants or would accept is an Organizing Authority or Race Committee to use an SI to change class rules. It would be very poor form for them to do so. I certainly would t travel to an event where the OA was going to change the game after you get there.

 

... Everyone would be better off if a fair and single rule set existed for the i550 world but the requirements of the various sailing venues need to be considered with the cabin issues and even the sails so yes, OK to restrict our little restricted develpement class a bit further if done with care and respect to those building.

Yep. And that is what is out there... No build is excluded by the i550NACA if it was built to the earlier rules.

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The Napanee boat(s) are not being built. My buddy and I bought some plans before getting into other boats. I doubt we will build, either.

 

I am in Ontario Canada... I only know of two other boats in my area. one in Napanee...not sure how far along his build is, and another in Toronto which I believe is moving along quite well. Are there any other boats on Lake Ontario?

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There have been several different posts on the ability (or lack of) of the i550 to point, and comparisons of it being run over by J24's. Does anyone have experience of it side by side with the U20 upwind?. How would it PHRF with the U20 on all points of sail?.

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.................... two boats that have raised side decks, ............

.

 

......raised side-decks?---tell me more

 

.......is this in order to make a 'rolled' gunnel rather than that nasty-hard edge?..

........................the freeboard already seems overly high otherwise.

 

......I'd love not to have that hard edge on the gunnels,,,make a tasar-ish hiking platform

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you misunderstand the idea of a sailing rule - to me there should be a plan set complete with the basic rules that govern how the boat is built. It should include the various tolerances that are allowed. The idea of a separate sailing rule set is simply to help accomodate those grandfathered boats. For instance, if it is decided on a P of 285 and a fixed, non-articuled prod, then everyone would know that coming to an OD i550 event that they will have to use that smaller main sail and that their articulated prod will have to be used as a fixed one. Since it is a rule rather than part of the SI, everyone knows ahead of time. This way it doesn't matter what you do even as a local fleet, it only matters at official OD events. In the example used, the PDX guys coud still sail together with the large P and articulated prods. Please know that this was an example and not what I am suggesting happening, just used as an easy explaination of what I meant with sailing rules.

 

The raised side decks - I'll see if I can get a picture of mine up heare when I get a chance.

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you misunderstand the idea of a sailing rule - to me there should be a plan set complete with the basic rules that govern how the boat is built. It should include the various tolerances that are allowed. The idea of a separate sailing rule set is simply to help accomodate those grandfathered boats....

I've never heard of such a thing as a "sailing rule" and to my knowledge no such thing exists under ISAF.

 

There are the Racing Rules of Sailing, then Class Rules, then the Sailing Instructions... Where would a "sailing rule" appear in that group? It's not part of the RRS... So, either these "sailing rules" are implemented by the class as Class Rules, or they are written by the Organizing Authority or Race Committee as Notice of Race and Sailing Instructions.

 

The current North American class rules address both building tolerance and sail limits (via rig dimension maximums). It doesn't look like there is really anything not addressed in those class rules that create an unfair advantage/disadvantage for or make illegal any boat built to the "pre-400" rule set.

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.....reviewing the thread above,,,I'm really impressed with the attitudes portrayed....

.......perhaps time DOES heal all wounds(??)..... I really hope so!!..

 

........I imagine there's a -few- of those 100's of plan-holders who might actually start making space in their man-cave's if they saw some unity among the groups---let's face it,,there's some regrets we have of the past....does that mean we have to live in them forever????

 

..methinks the comment below,from the end of the thread,makes a good starting point for a discussion........I motion that we perhaps meet in a -neutral- enough territory,(,maybe TXS's site?),,,,,,and have a little 'check-in'' ............

 

''Only 2 significant i550class rules stop the current PDX fleet boats from measuring in under i550Class rules. They are the same ones that effect Chad. Max P of 285" and cabin height or 42" from hull bottom. This group/class just needs to come together in some kind of official way to adopt the rules and then amend the rules as they want and then move on.''

 

...As far as I see it,,,one class's rules already welcome the other,,,if there were some -small- mods here and there within the 2 rules,,we'd perhaps achieve a bit more cohesion!!??........it sure seems like that's the sentiment of many!!

 

................let's leave those old rusty hatchets at home,,make a 'boat' we're proud of!! :rolleyes:

 

.

.

 

...ummm,,sadly,,it's pretty clear from comments offline ,and elsewhere,,,that there won't be much changing in the i550 world soon.

 

..methinks it's accurate to say that primary personalities from both groups both seem to hold strongly to their past grudges with each other,,, both use the phrase 'working behind my back' when referring to the other party and how 'the other' did unforgivable things in the past :mellow: ...sad.

 

......... most of the 'general membership' seem to defer to these primary characters, ,,so the status quo will forever remain.....

 

......UNLESS,,,the 2 'associations' were to actually form proper executive committees,,and actually charge a membership,,,and have their operations and meetings above-board,,in the open,,for all to see,,,,then it would be a relatively simple case of motions being made by a membership base,,and SIMPLE things changed,,,that could bring things into sync between the 2 classes.

 

...or perhaps if a group of stakeholders form a 3rd association---the 'i550NAclass.org' or some such group,,,and find the middle ground,,,form a set of rules which doesn't exclude or piss-off each other :huh:

 

....although this would work too.......

....''I think it would be::: if it looks like an i550 and it sounds like an i550, it's an i550! Race it and have a beer. Have fun, no worries.''...that's certainly the attitude that 550 sailors take anytime they gather anyways!

 

......for me,,I'll carry on enjoying the regional group I'm part of,,with pretty much the attitude above^^ :rolleyes:

 

.

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....although this would work too.......

....''I think it would be::: if it looks like an i550 and it sounds like an i550, it's an i550! Race it and have a beer. Have fun, no worries.''...that's certainly the attitude that 550 sailors take anytime they gather anyways!

 

......for me,,I'll carry on enjoying the regional group I'm part of,,with pretty much the attitude above^^

We've had quite a few fun events this year, haven't we! And 8 or 9 boats in 2014... It just keeps getting better doesn't it? Now if someone could just get across the boarder... I hear there might be a hole in the fence over in eastern Washington... Maybe we can all ge over to Sandpoint or Lake Chelan??

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....although this would work too.......

....''I think it would be::: if it looks like an i550 and it sounds like an i550, it's an i550! Race it and have a beer. Have fun, no worries.''...that's certainly the attitude that 550 sailors take anytime they gather anyways!

 

......for me,,I'll carry on enjoying the regional group I'm part of,,with pretty much the attitude above^^

We've had quite a few fun events this year, haven't we! And 8 or 9 boats in 2014... It just keeps getting better doesn't it? Now if someone could just get across the border... I hear there might be a hole in the fence over in eastern Washington... Maybe we can all ge over to Sandpoint or Lake Chelan??

.

 

...hmmm,,,and I keep wondering who warned the border that I smoked lots of pot in my 20's <_<;)

 

...maybe there IS a good use for those cabins :rolleyes:

 

 

 

..methinks it's accurate to say that primary personalities from both groups both seem to hold strongly to their past grudges with each other,,, both use the phrase 'working behind my back' when referring to the other party and how 'the other' did unforgivable things in the past :mellow: ...sad.

 

.

...my last thought on the unity 'stuff'........... I wonder what it would be like if those primary personalities were to decide to resign their positions in their respective associations,,forcing a movement to active voting and new executive committees....this might be a way to let things evolve!?

 

.

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...my last thought on the unity 'stuff'........... I wonder what it would be like if those primary personalities were to decide to resign their positions in your respective associations,,forcing a movement to active voting and new executive committees....this might be a way to let things evolve!?

.

Couch surfer for president... Or Chairman.... Or ????

 

All the groundwork is in place at the i550 North American Class Association... All the papers have been filed with US Sailing... The business is registered... Officers are indemnified... Bank accounts are established... Just need someone to step up and take point... More than happy to support the next spark plug.

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...my last thought on the unity 'stuff'........... I wonder what it would be like if those primary personalities were to decide to resign their positions in your respective associations,,forcing a movement to active voting and new executive committees....this might be a way to let things evolve!?

.

Couch surfer for president... Or Chairman.... Or ????

 

All the groundwork is in place at the i550 North American Class Association... All the papers have been filed with US Sailing... The business is registered... Officers are indemnified... Bank accounts are established... Just need someone to step up and take point... More than happy to support the next spark plug.

,

 

...hmmm,,maybe I haven't thought this idea through!! :mellow: ........I'd be happy to be a part of an executive,,,with co-members from not only Portland,,but across the area that the class purports to govern.

 

...on my own,,I'd likely create more problems than I'd solve!!! :lol:

 

.

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..methinks it's accurate to say that primary personalities from both groups both seem to hold strongly to their past grudges with each other,,, both use the phrase 'working behind my back' when referring to the other party and how 'the other' did unforgivable things in the past :mellow: ...sad.

 

.

...my last thought on the unity 'stuff'........... I wonder what it would be like if those primary personalities were to decide to resign their positions in their respective associations,,forcing a movement to active voting and new executive committees....this might be a way to let things evolve!?

Never held an office (well, except as a co-member of an interim technical committee with Eric...), so nothing to resign from. Which is nice. But I'll pledge not to carp from the sidelines if a third party makes an honest go of it.

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..methinks it's accurate to say that primary personalities from both groups both seem to hold strongly to their past grudges with each other,,, both use the phrase 'working behind my back' when referring to the other party and how 'the other' did unforgivable things in the past :mellow: ...sad.

 

.

...my last thought on the unity 'stuff'........... I wonder what it would be like if those primary personalities were to decide to resign their positions in their respective associations,,forcing a movement to active voting and new executive committees....this might be a way to let things evolve!?

Never held an office (well, except as a co-member of an interim technical committee with Eric...), so nothing to resign from. Which is nice. But I'll pledge not to carp from the sidelines if a third party makes an honest go of it.

.

 

hey,,'piece',,,you'd fit into my.....''my memory and it's holes make it very easy to make wash of personalities and details--heck I don't even manage to correlate different user-names between sites'' category!...just don't know who you translate to on whatever group!!,,,doesn't really matter---it's time that the grudgeholders step back for a re-organization,,,and become something of a technical brain-trust (there's a lot of -important- stuff done in previous years).......not that you're one of those!

 

 

..my latest...............can it be as simple as using ...........''if it looks like an i550 and it smells like an i550, it's an i550!'' ,,,,,,,as a base.....then developing the base elements of the 'box' that help define the 'smell' aspect icon_e_wink.gif .............length,,beam,,weight,,,foredeck length(or not),,max spar lengths,,flat panels....maybe not much else(?)

 

.......just like so many other classes,,,there could be some tighter,more highly defined OD classes that come-out of this box,,,but I'd suggest building unity first!

 

 

 

........thoughts??

 

.

 

 

 

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..my latest...............can it be as simple as using ...........''if it looks like an i550 and it smells like an i550, it's an i550!'' ,,,,,,,as a base.....then developing the base elements of the 'box' that help define the 'smell' aspect icon_e_wink.gif .............length,,beam,,weight,,,foredeck length(or not),,max spar lengths,,flat panels....maybe not much else(?)

 

.......just like so many other classes,,,there could be some tighter,more highly defined OD classes that come-out of this box,,,but I'd suggest building unity first!

 

 

 

........thoughts?

 

Pretty sure we are already doing that with one boat that has a HUGE jib ;)

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been lurking for months...and am STOKED to see the conversation turn towards unification. with all the tinkering considered, if you cut the panels out according to the plans, you are going to end up with boats that sail VERY similarly....and boat handling will trump anything you do in the garage......IMHO.

This class and boat is best suited to the homebuilder. PERIOD. The idea of a production builder and all that is a great idea, once you get a STRONG unified class of folks who built and are sailing the boat together on a regular basis (and it is getting really close to that). In Little League.....my kid wants to pitch curve balls and sliders and change ups.....but it is silly to try until you ESTABLISH THE STRIKE ZONE......basics first.

Hope it can happen for all y'all.......the guy quietly building in his garage deserves that support from the class.

Hope you can do it!!

 

 

COUCH FOR PREZ!!!! (or whoever else is crazy enough to step up and try to herd these cats!)

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..my latest...............can it be as simple as using ...........''if it looks like an i550 and it smells like an i550, it's an i550!'' ,,,,,,,as a base.....then developing the base elements of the 'box' that help define the 'smell' aspect icon_e_wink.gif .............length,,beam,,weight,,,foredeck length(or not),,max spar lengths,,flat panels....maybe not much else(?)

 

.......just like so many other classes,,,there could be some tighter,more highly defined OD classes that come-out of this box,,,but I'd suggest building unity first!

 

 

 

........thoughts?

 

Pretty sure we are already doing that with one boat that has a HUGE jib ;)

.

 

............said mr HUGE main!!! <_<

 

.....uh?...oh oh....my mast's short,,,boom's long,,,didn't think to check the jib yet!! :huh: ...kinda thought it fit -nicely'!!

 

.....when I bought the boat,,it looked,,'smelt' like an i550,,,so I bought it,,,sail it :rolleyes:

 

 

.

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What are the classes of home built sailboats that have done well and stood the test of time?, maybe we could copy their formula for success. It sounds like we all are after the same thing, grow the class, have more boats to race against, have FUN!.

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Let's take a look at the typical One Design "Box". You buy a hull, deck, rig, etc from the builder and you have no input as to how that boat is built. The Class Rules then tell you how to measure in that boat to insure it is indeed a legal OD boat then the rules go on to tell you in what configuration you race that boat in. In other words, all about the sails, ETC. With a One Design, the class rules are really what I called, perhaps incorrectly, "sailing rules" in that they have nothing what so ever to do with how you build the boat, but how one sails it, or more precisely, what the legal configuration is in which you can legally sail the boat for One Design regattas.

 

With the i550, we have two sets of rules that are sort of like all other OD class rules but then they also tell you how to build that boat. The way all sets of the rules dated back to 2006 have been written, those rules are what defines the "as designed" aspect of the i550. As long as what you built fits that box as defined by the class rules, you are good to go. Build it to the extremes of those rules in all cases and you still technically have an "as designed" boat. The i550 can not be a One Design in the sense that most people have come to think of what a One Design class is. It is a box rule or restricted development boat anyway you slice it.

 

It, to repeat myself once again, is simple fear that keeps one group from accepting the other. While each group likes to believe they are restricting the hull enough, the other group thinks otherwise. At lease, in my opinion, the NA group was wise enough to make sure they included everyone, the i550class folks elected to be more exclusive and excluded 50% of the boats sailing from their class. Until the i550class leadership decides to be inclusive of the rights of others to make the same kind of modifications they were allowed when they built their personal boats, there will be a split, a divide that can't be fixed. In other words, the leadership of the i500class has to recognize that a flush deck is the same thing as when they widened the cockpits. An inboard rudder is the same thing as when they chose to buy that carbon rig. That they are the ones, as early builders, that changed the i550 from a possible one design to what it is today.

 

If we all embrace what the i550 truly is, perhaps we then can unite and all of us can find that common ground.

 

If anyone does want to have a open and honest discussion about the i550 and how to redefine the experience to be better for all, but does not want to have it here, it can certainly be had on my forum. No one will ever be kicked out for what their opinion is or for expressing it.

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What's up with the one design talk, stop it. You loose me when you use the term "one design" in the context of i550. The term is vague but suggests many things that the i550 is not. Not a full blown development class but definitely more I14 than 505. Like the I14, i550 sailors obviously have some interest in boat development unlike Laser sailors who torture themselves over 10 pounds of crew weight since that is the only variable at their disposal.

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What's up with the one design talk, stop it. You loose me when you use the term "one design" in the context of i550. The term is vague but suggests many things that the i550 is not. Not a full blown development class but definitely more I14 than 505. Like the I14, i550 sailors obviously have some interest in boat development unlike Laser sailors who torture themselves over 10 pounds of crew weight since that is the only variable at their disposal.

Maybe, like many successful classes, adopt the term "Development Class" where within strict guidelines some allowance is made to fine tune and explore areas.. I have never heard of a "Box Rule" being called OD before.. maybe the whole OD mindset is some marketing virus that started with turning a hamberger into some instantly available sweet fatty made to the last cent formula, rather than be a delicious & nutritional menu item, that took 10mins or so to make just right as per each customers desire..

.

 

...oh and what is a sport boat,,sportsboat,,sportboat anyways?? :wacko:

 

.

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okayyyy,folks...after various exchanges with parties from all groups including some respected 'tweenies' ;) ,,,,,

.........it's pretty clear that it's not yet the right time,,for any changes....there's no point in pushing into all this MUCK anymore for now.

...it's abundantly clear...once you've sailed,,raced the boat much that ALL of the variables between set-ups are totally moot,,meaningless!... wether it be 'P' height,,,deck height,,hull rocker variations,,etc.***

''It's those who want to tweak things thinking it will be faster are the ones we will have to deal with ''..good luck to them!,,,it REALLY makes little difference...certainly not worth all the stress people have put each other through!!!

...I've sailed with a very original,,built 'to the spirit' boat,, .....I've raced a # of events with all that 5 PDX's can toss at me ,,using pick-up crew,,,and come out even!! . as I say...IT JUST DON'T MATTER!!!!***

.....I guess perhaps I brought this all up a bit early,,rather spontaneously!.....once more boats are on the water,,,,the mud will clear on it's own.

...once that happens,,methinks that the point of view displayed so eloquently as''if it looks like a 550,,smells like a 550'',,,will come to be.This is a limited-development class--a simple set of parameters will do!

 



...got a gale forecast for the next couple of days ,,going to a sweatlodge with my son,,then it's time to 'shaddap'n'sail'!!......

...after all that's what this is all about!...........cheers.....m :)

 

 

 

 

..........***....exceptions to this are the bow-pole rotation,,,and short cockpits!........

 

PRODs.........admittedly,,most all of the racing I've been doing has been in winds under 15 knots,,hence my attachment to the articulator!...in the NW at least,,this for the most part ,won't change!

...the i550 is simplistic in soo many ways,,the articulation-prod is one thing that compensates,,not to mention allows the crew to even see the luff without hiking out in lightest winds!!

.......it's not complicated....I recently sailed with a very nearly newby in 20 knots...he'd pass me the spinnsheet,,,gybe the pole and jib,,,and receive the spin sheet back after I had completed steering,,and chute-sheeting through the gybe--I keep the boat on a low,flat ange until everythings organized---it was a fun ride!

...expen$e wise,,my rotator prod could cost no more than 4 tiny blocks and 2 cleats if done right-the track I use isn't necessary.

 

..............I started with a FULL LENGTH CABIN,,wide side-decks----this was really the only significant performance vacuum I've seen on the boats,, in lighter winds,,the crew position needs to centre near the shroud position in order for the boat not to stern-drag,,wide side-decks nearly stop shorter crew from even getting their butts over the gunnel to hike,,to put the long-cabin boat on it's lines,,a crew needs to be on the foredeck-not convenient or safe,really.

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I think most recognize that there will not be a true advantage from one "option" on the i550 to another. An articulated pole may have an advantage in lighter wind conditions while the a non-articulated one may be better (easier to handle) in the higher winds. Even with the hull shape issues, any advantage will most likely be condition dependent so not enough to make a difference in the end. This actually supports what the designer has been saying for years. I think even the mods he made to hull 336 ended up an estimate 1 or 2% increase in speed in some conditions.

 

If it is cost effective to do some kind of deck mounted articulated prod, I suppose the answer is why not? Can't hurt and if it helps in light winds, which means to me it makes sailing in light winds more fun, than it seems like a worth while option to take advantage of. Neither set of class rules prevent an articulated prod, however the i550class rules may make the type of deck mounted articulation like TTB and others have used a bit tough to get to pass due to restrictions on the mounting structure/ dimensions.

 

Yes, I fully agree that everyone should start calling this class what it is, either a Box Rule Class or a Restricted Development Class. We sail together as a class, not as a One Design. Heck, even that idea might work for a future production boat. Offer a base boat that can be had for the right price and still sail competitively and make that option list large enough to encompass a wide range of possible options. Might even be able to offer semi-complete boats for those who do want to tweak to their hearts content.

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....although this would work too.......

....''I think it would be::: if it looks like an i550 and it sounds like an i550, it's an i550! Race it and have a beer. Have fun, no worries.''...that's certainly the attitude that 550 sailors take anytime they gather anyways!

 

......for me,,I'll carry on enjoying the regional group I'm part of,,with pretty much the attitude above^^

We've had quite a few fun events this year, haven't we! And 8 or 9 boats in 2014... It just keeps getting better doesn't it? Now if someone could just get across the boarder... I hear there might be a hole in the fence over in eastern Washington... Maybe we can all ge over to Sandpoint or Lake Chelan??

Pre-register 5 boats for Sandpoint's Spud Cup held every Labor Day weekend and you can have your own start and awards.

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Silly question. Has anyone used a symmetrical spinnaker?. Couch keep us posted on the whole phrf deal. I know others prefer to do one design but there's times where racing in itself is just fun.

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A list of PHRF numbers for the i550 has been posted in the past. The issue with this thread is that finding anything can be problematic. In Jacksonville, we have a PHRF of 150.

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A list of PHRF numbers for the i550 has been posted in the past. The issue with this thread is that finding anything can be problematic. In Jacksonville, we have a PHRF of 150.

.

 

...144 in BC PHRF.....I understand that #'s are in higher/lower ranges in different areas.....I don't know whether bc is lower generally,,or there's other factors,,,,,,but that's all immaterial,,,H'cap 'racing' another oxymoron in my books-not to be taken seriously.

 

...just like the Aus18'skiffs,,I-14's and sooo many other classes ,,,,i550's are a good developmental one design platform,,and there'll be much benefit when more get on the water,and a clearer message gets out to the -many- fence-sitters there must be! :mellow:

 

.......sadly,,I just heard from one fellow who bought plans recently,,was keen and able to have a launch by next spring,,,

....but he's now decided to ''hold back on deciding right now. I want to see how this class/ boat rules discussion pans out. I want a boat I can race anywhere, with anyone.''

.....this is a regrettable side effect of the confused situation that exists...it's one thing for TF a key person in the 'class' to state ''if it looks like an i550,,sounds like an i550,,,I'd be happy to race it'',,,,,it'd be another for that idea to be mandated more formally in rule-sets.

...the fellow goes on to say.....''I travel now with my dinghy class and can compete in all North American events, ,,, There's real value for me to meet all class rules. Soooo we'll see where this NA/ Class thing goes''.......I'm pretty sure that there's a number more builder/sailors that are stuck in this gulag

...the above is the real cost of the status quo :mellow::(

 

 

 

.....I must say,,to address this issue is what got me going in the first place...I was exploring what profile of boat would fit both class's rules..it's easy-peasy with the NA rules-they basically seem to accept the 'looks like,smells like'' adage,,,,to fit the current class rules,,a.f.a.i.k,,,the main thing would be to have a cabin height at the mast which would be a few inches higher than a Portland boat,,and a deck that extends to the length of the 'short-cabin' boats***,, a difference in the 'P' measurement on the mainsail luff length** ,,,maybe a couple of other details(?),,,but I'm sure so far,,these differences,,and the diffraction they reflect ,,cause a few potential builders to hesitate!!

 

***,,,many suggest to simply have an add-on that clips onto the deck would answer this,if you don't want a raised cabin-personally,I'm happy with a bit of cabin-height,,and will design a nice 'roll' in the deck to meet the measurement points

 

**...even though the longer luff allowed on NArules boats makes the boom rather low,allows a bigger sail,,in -reality- of racing ,,the differences again,,are immaterial

,,,the low booms also have caused a few complaints about the low boom anyways :huh:;)

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this is a regrettable side effect of the confused situation that exists...it's one thing for TF a key person in the 'class' to state ''if it looks like an i550,,sounds like an i550,,,I'd be happy to race it'

 

I'm not speaking for the class, if, in fact, there actually is one....the i550class.org website is still very active and it's a great place to get info. But we haven't had an AGM or anything of that sort so with that in mind we are not in confirmation with our own by-laws. I'm just speaking for myself and I do not think the "key person" label ^ is applicable, but anyway, at this point, I'm just a guy almost finished building an i550 in my backyard. So, I gracefully bow out of any rules discussion or rule merger or rule disambiguation. I bought my plan set in 2008, thinking it would be a one-design thing and I was wrong, I concede that. I completely misunderstood the mindset of the community of builders, totally admit that.

 

SO anyway, count me out of anything that has to do with any aspect of i550 organizational issues. I have more than enough going on with the local YRA to keep me busy :)

 

I would like to keep the forum up because:

1) it is place where people can ask reasonable questions and receive polite, informative answers without an arse-load of macho posturing bullshit.

I am so sick of that I rarely even visit SA these days. Just done with it.

2) it is well-monitored and devoid of bots and spammers...every member on the list has a plan set or is considering buying one.

3) I could be wrong but I think Watershed would like us to maintain it. What's good for them is good for us.

 

So, does that help, couch?

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Tim, I for one am very happy to have signed on with the i550class forum. If it wasn't for the forum a lot of my questions would not have been answered.

 

It's no enjoyment having to read arguments on a forum, but get answers to a problem. so that one can continue building his i550.

 

Hopefully, I will have my boat complete next year and get to race you and others, regardless if it is here(trying another club for help)or in the United States.

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this is a regrettable side effect of the confused situation that exists...it's one thing for TF a key person in the 'class' to state ''if it looks like an i550,,sounds like an i550,,,I'd be happy to race it'

 

I'm not speaking for the class, if, in fact, there actually is one....the i550class.org website is still very active and it's a great place to get info. But we haven't had an AGM or anything of that sort so with that in mind we are not in confirmation with our own by-laws. I'm just speaking for myself and I do not think the "key person" label ^ is applicable, but anyway, at this point, I'm just a guy almost finished building an i550 in my backyard. So, I gracefully bow out of any rules discussion or rule merger or rule disambiguation. I bought my plan set in 2008, thinking it would be a one-design thing and I was wrong, I concede that. I completely misunderstood the mindset of the community of builders, totally admit that.

 

SO anyway, count me out of anything that has to do with any aspect of i550 organizational issues. I have more than enough going on with the local YRA to keep me busy :)

 

I would like to keep the forum up because:

1) it is place where people can ask reasonable questions and receive polite, informative answers without an arse-load of macho posturing bullshit.

I am so sick of that I rarely even visit SA these days. Just done with it.

2) it is well-monitored and devoid of bots and spammers...every member on the list has a plan set or is considering buying one.

3) I could be wrong but I think Watershed would like us to maintain it. What's good for them is good for us.

 

So, does that help, couch?

.

 

....hey Tim,,,I didn't mean to put you on the spot like that,,my -impression- was that you're one of the helmsman for the 'class' ......

.............which begs the question--who's 'steering the (class)boat'??? :huh:

 

......who can be counted-in to clear up an issue which -definitely- keeps some people from buying plans or going on with a build!?! :mellow:

 

...and yes,,the 'class' site is definitely the go-to for active i550 info....m

 

.

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Hah, no worries man. Helmsman....hmmm..... that's a tough one. We sort of steer things all together, sorta lurch from one side to another. I promise to PM you later this week, it's just that I have so much crap on my plate right now it isn't funny.

 

But I meant it when I said I appreciate your efforts and offer a heartfelt "thanks!"

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Not to detract from any other source of information, Watershed greatly appreciates i550class.org for the information, comaraderie and irreplaceable depth of experience shared by so many posters. Thank you,Tim Ford and you other guys.

TF I hope your plate gets cleaner very soon.

T&S

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...gotta agree with T/S here,,,,

,,,,,,,,,and the class site's more user friendly than the other one,,with a lot of good information filling the pages**

 

......certainly 'real life' issues can take their toll in people's lives,,,

,,,,,,,,,,,otherwise we'd all be able to build a boat in a few weeks! :o:lol:

....I really hope ,with some time,thought and communication,,we can come out of this winter with one class for NA,,,one website,,,,

 

.......and a whole lot less confusion for people who are standing on the sidelines

 

 

.....**,,,for the class website to be the go-to place for a unified i550 class,,there'd need to be some peace-making with some--perhaps that's a 2 way street,,,but I'm going to keep hoping we can create a 'NA-Class' act with time,tolerance, good will,,and a few good 'pints'. :rolleyes:

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What are the classes of home built sailboats that have done well and stood the test of time?, maybe we could copy their formula for success. It sounds like we all are after the same thing, grow the class, have more boats to race against, have FUN!.

Lightning... Just sailed at a regatta that had a brand new home built wood one!

 

Thistle... Don't really think anyone is home building, but you can.

 

I-14... Definitely a few home builds out there.

 

Opti, sabot and el toro can all be home built...

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What are the classes of home built sailboats that have done well and stood the test of time?, maybe we could copy their formula for success. It sounds like we all are after the same thing, grow the class, have more boats to race against, have FUN!.

Lightning... Just sailed at a regatta that had a brand new home built wood one!

 

Thistle... Don't really think anyone is home building, but you can.

 

I-14... Definitely a few home builds out there.

 

Opti, sabot and el toro can all be home built...

 

.

........fireball,,enterprise,,Thunderbirds.....

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I will keep my opinion of the i550 class site to myself except to say that the how to build info is good. The interpetations and some of the other stuff is very one sidesd so take it with a grain of salt.

 

There is nothing wrong with the NA site, the i550class site is just built from a better base than the NA forum site is. The layout and function of the NA forum is, as mentioned, not as nice as the other sites. There is still some good info over there though.

 

It would be intersting to just compare the actually tolerancing on the various other "homebuilt" classes and make a comparison with real world results from the i550. A big issue has always been how tight to make those tolerances on the hull. Niether rule set prevents those feared modifications at his point and as long as some fear what someone else may do, it will be a sticking point.

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Anyone have any photos of their articulating bow sprits? Or decent photos of a easy to use articulating sprit ?

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Anyone have any photos of their articulating bow sprits? Or decent photos of a easy to use articulating sprit ?

Some construction photos...

http://i550na.org/eric/blog/back-saddle-errrr-shop-again

 

More in my blog

http://i550na.org/eric/blog

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Anyone have any photos of their articulating bow sprits? Or decent photos of a easy to use articulating sprit ?

.

 

...happy to oblige! ;) .......... http://www.flickr.com/photos/59103003@N05/sets/72157636076955693/

 

..click on pictures for detail notes

 

 

 

...mines something of a 'farm-fit'--function over esthetics ,,,,but has the added feature of going in/out automatically with the halyard

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.

 

....yeh,,it's good to check things out,,and I DEFINETELY recommend test-sailing in a fleet before you 'rule' these out :rolleyes:

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Hey guys,

Thanks very much.

No problem... Under deck is sexier... Easy with lines & purchase below deck run to cockpit... But articulation is limited to 18 deg per side which seems to be plenty for our sailing.

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....yeh,,it's good to check things out,,and I DEFINETELY recommend test-sailing in a fleet before you 'rule' these out :rolleyes:

Anyone looking to build is welcome to come out to i550 central in Portland and see how these boats sail any time.

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Hey guys,

Thanks very much.

No problem... Under deck is sexier... Easy with lines & purchase below deck run to cockpit... But articulation is limited to 18 deg per side which seems to be plenty for our sailing.

.

 

...yep,,you PDX guys have 'sexy' down,F'sure....n.t.t.a.w.w.t.

 

........................... ..personally ,I'm into -rugged good looks- :P

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.

 

....yeh,,it's good to check things out,,and I DEFINETELY recommend test-sailing in a fleet before you 'rule' these out :rolleyes:

Anyone looking to build is welcome to come out to i550 central in Portland and see how these boats sail any time.

Do you have any regattas coming up that you may need crew, or are you guys done for the season?. Our season here in Colorado ended a couple of weeks ago.

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.

 

....yeh,,it's good to check things out,,and I DEFINETELY recommend test-sailing in a fleet before you 'rule' these out :rolleyes:

Anyone looking to build is welcome to come out to i550 central in Portland and see how these boats sail any time.

Do you have any regattas coming up that you may need crew, or are you guys done for the season?. Our season here in Colorado ended a couple of weeks ago.

.

 

....at this point the OD fleet's looking forward to next year,,with at least 2 more boats making the line--1pdx style,,1 long-cabin,,,,

,,,,,,I plan to do some handicap racing through the winter,,,

 

.......if you're planning a trip to Vancouver ,,drop me a line,,I'm happy to take all-comers out,,,in fact I keep an ad in craigslist-activities.......it keeps a decent crew-pool going,,and it's great to get new people out :)

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Do you have any regattas coming up that you may need crew, or are you guys done for the season?. Our season here in Colorado ended a couple of weeks ago.

We're done racing until spring '14, but we can always splash a boat a crack a few beers.

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Hey i550 people.. Do any of you run electronics or lights on your i550s? I ask 'cause I'm betting all the nifty LC Dart electronics gadgets would work just as well on i550s.

 

-jim lee

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Hey i550 people.. Do any of you run electronics or lights on your i550s? I ask 'cause I'm betting all the nifty LC Dart electronics gadgets would work just as well on i550s.

 

-jim lee

Cool stuff, but these are supposed to be race boats... It'd be a bit like putting running lights on a Laser.

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Hey i550 people.. Do any of you run electronics or lights on your i550s? I ask 'cause I'm betting all the nifty LC Dart electronics gadgets would work just as well on i550s.

 

-jim lee

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