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Firefly-DC

J22 buyers guide

28 posts in this topic

I am looking at purchasing a used J22, mid 200s built in 1983. are there particular areas that should be looked at closely? Do older J22s have the same vermiculite problems that older J24s had? what areas are prone to cracks, what cracks can be repaired and what can't. any other things unique to the J22?

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You best ask Moose.

 

According to him we back of the pack crowd are too stupid to to offer an opinion.

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The first thing to look at is soft spots on the deck. As with most older race boats, previous owners have put hardware here and there and may not have sealed the holes properly. The hull and deck have a balsa core so you might find some wet spots.

 

Next take a good hard look at where the bulkhead are tabbed to the deck and the hull. This is a classic and recurring problem with 22's. Cracks in this area will slow you down since it allows the boat's hull to twist.

 

The foils are an obvious place to spend some time looking. The keels on older boats especially, tended to be way fat and not max forward. If they haven't been faired fully, there's a good chance the keel isn't max depth either. See if you can find some templates to measure the keel. You local J22 fleet captain should be able to help you there.

 

An angled mast step is important too since lee helm on those boats can be a problem.

 

No vermiculite.

 

Hopefully Fred will post up a long list, he's worked on tons of them.

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check out usaj22.com there are some good boats there for sale. Also I know of a few in Annapolis. Where are you located? Basically, you buy a used boat, its a used boat. Check for bulkhead rot, sight the keel and rudder and see if they are lined up. Ask if there is a recent measurement certificate. Make sure the keel has been moved forward, they usually just shave the back and add to the front. But either way things like that are a pain to fix. Beyond that stuff, there is a lot of little things that make the boats nice. Just depends on what you are looking to do.

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1983? Wow that's like ancient. Having owned #118, I recommend something more recent, like 700 and above. We all get old...

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You best ask Moose.

 

According to him we back of the pack crowd are too stupid to to offer an opinion.

Dude, take another pill.

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I have #7 and there is nothing slow about it.

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saw this one on craigslist - in ct.

 

J-22 for $2000

 

 

no, it's not mine...

it says 1989, so that has to be like 900-1000 hull # right? hmmmm it says its "dirty" so trashing it is something that I can cross off my to do list right off the bat...I may have to look into this one

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it says 1989, so that has to be like 900-1000 hull # right? hmmmm it says its "dirty" so trashing it is something that I can cross off my to do list right off the bat...I may have to look into this one

Go for it! Habibi II (is that spelled right?).

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Thanks spackler, thats the kind of thing I was looking for. Someone mentioned something about moving the keel forward, what is that about? Would a boat measure in without moving the keel or is it just a performance enhancement?

 

What I am looking for is a boat I can PHRF at home tuesdays and weekends with the occasional NOOD or regional OD thrown in. your basic weekend warrior type stuff with a boat I dont need a big rig to tow around and can teach my son in. I'm not looking to dominate the worlds.

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I have #7 and there is nothing slow about it.

 

 

Except maybe>>>> the connection between the tiller and the mainsheet??

 

That's slow on all my boats.

 

Questions and thoughts:

 

1. Is the keel moved asnd faired...$$2000 to $3000

 

2. Is the rudder solid? Look for brown ooze streaks...rot indicators. also fracture lines around lower gudgeons. New rudder $1000

 

3. Windows leak? Streaks inside? Cracked windows? $100 and most of a day of your time even if you own all the tools.

 

4. Chainplates. Leak? has the deck rotted around tehm? Is there cracking near the cabin house to flat deck junction? That usually means lots of rot...recaulking is nearly free...Major bulkhead and deck repairs could be $2000

 

5. Transome rot. Gudgeons and chainplates rot out when the things get loose and wiggly....$200 to $1000

 

6. Wood walls under cockpit to hull...They are a pain to replace and if they have been used to hold moisture for 25 years...They could be in need of replacement...about $1000

 

7. Is there a solar ventilator? Does it work? if not be VERY wary of rot. Ventilators cost a couple hundred bucks. I ilke to mount them in the screw out part of the aft deck plate and remove it to sail. Don't get the battery supported blower? Why would you want to cuirculate moist night air through your daytime dried toy??

 

8. How's the trailer? Tires, lights, bearings and the obviouis stuiff cost only about $500 to redo totally but structure problems?? That could be new trailer time. $3000 and up.

 

9. all those cam cleats and lines and winches do add up to ever couple grand. How are they?

 

10. Older J-22s had a problem with the spreader bar wallowing out a huge hole in teh middle of teh mmast. Some J-22s suddenly became two section mated J-22s and the stay wires don't keep that kind of mast in the right position. If the spreaders wiggle some, you can probably fix it for a couple hundred bucks. If the wallowing is a lot, you may need a $2000 mast or do they cost more?

 

11. If I had spell check I would use it. Quit bitching about my typing and just read the damned content..

Tehy say msot poelpe can raed antyhnig wirtten if the frist and lsat ltetres are corerct and all the rmeaining letetrs are persnet.

 

12. The side seats down below generally rot at the ends and fail. Consider it costs a few hundred bucks to get new ones.

 

13. ALL Old fittings holes are suspect. They ALWAYS leak eventually.The rot invariably spreads.

 

14. Handrails are either in great shape or splinterable pieces of useless shit. Do you need new ones? if they wiggle now the deck is rotted too.

 

15. The through bolts on teh boom for vang and mainsheet wallow ot the boom. A good welder can fix that but only before you fold the boom around the vang bolt.

 

16. If the trailer is denting the hull? There may be fixing needed on both.

 

17. Does it have the new style lifting bar? if not...Make installation of one a condition of the sale. Do not ever lift any J-22 on teh old singel bolt lift syste\. If you do there are very good odds someone will be killed. The boat will beak teh old bolt and fall. It will fall on an innocent 4 year old girl who is riding past on her trike. When you kill her we will all know you are a fucking murderer.

 

18. Don't ask NYBOZO anything about J-22s. He is an ignorant F%#@er from the middle of the fleet...wait...so am I.

 

19. If the screw tops are showing through the teak rails, you need new rails. $2000 or more installed.

 

20. I really think the Class should allow fiberglass replacements for the cockpit coamings ..Click here>> Fred's contribution to the J-22 game

 

21. Lottsa folks have overstressed their mast steps by leaning the mast back and yanking on teh deck plate. If teh fractures are open the deck can rot. $500 plus to fix

 

22. If the winches are 6P the damn things will eventually freeze up.

 

23. Does the spin pole have fancy new expensive ends? over $200

 

24. Do the shrouds ahve teh fancy easy to adjust turnbuckles? Thats a couple hundred or more if the shrouds end up being replaced

 

25. the dodger hatch is notorious for rotting out all around teh fittings. Everybody mounts fittings there and since there is no room below it for teh hatch to slide back and forth, they save space by using non locking nuts...which don't lock...DUH...So teh fastenerrs get wlose and water leaks in and the rot spreads rapidly. it takes a couple hundred bucks to rebuild teh dodger and then you need all those fasteners and while you are at it YOU KNOW you will buy a bunch of cleats...$500??

 

26. Gooseneck. That little aluminum dingliedooper that connects the boom to the mast wears out....and breaks...and tears sails...etc.

 

27. How many gotchas are there on the outhaul wire?

 

which reminds me of some colorful sailor language we could be using...

 

His brain halyard still works but the wire has a few gotchas.

 

 

28. The jib track holes eventually wear out and get slanty on the front side and they cause a sort of auto self release of the car holding pins. Look at teh holes. New tracks cost something like $100

 

29. Climb all over inside the boat and look for repairs. Do they look damn near like a new boat should look or are they done with fine cloth by incompetent idiots? Re-doing repairs costs about as much as doing it right the first time.

 

30. Does the keel wiggle a little...they all do...or a lot...that's bad...weak sump...needs to be reinforced. add $500

 

31. Why is it painted? Really! What is being hidden? How did it go from new pretty boat to so beat to hell it needed a paintjob? Nobody paints a boat just to change the color. No you don't. Liar!! I said nobody!!

 

32. sails. Some folks actually DO sell J-22s with almost new sails. Some guys have two or three sets of pretty darned good rags. You almost certainly need one new suit for regattas but lottsa boats have decent sails that are just fine for the local Wednesday night races or even the summer series a the club. You can buy a suit of used one regatta sails from virtually any sailmaker or front of the fleet ( not like NYBOZO or me) sailor but a set of reasonably good rags is worth at least $1000. and new suits cost over $3000.

 

33. Compass? Electronic thing with a starting feature costs big bucks. The class requires a mounted compass.

 

 

34. Windex? Don't get a big one..but realize they cost as much as a case of the better beer.

 

35. It will be that old when you have had it a while. Think about 35 year old boats that are really nice. You know somebody MUST spend some serious time and money on this old J-22 or it will look like most old occasionally used 1970s boats look today.

 

36. MaguirePerfect36.jpg

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Except maybe>>>> the connection between the tiller and the mainsheet??

 

That's slow on all my boats.

 

Questions and thoughts:

 

1. Is the keel moved asnd faired...$$2000 to $3000

 

2. Is the rudder solid? Look for brown ooze streaks...rot indicators. also fracture lines around lower gudgeons. New rudder $1000

 

3. Windows leak? Streaks inside? Cracked windows? $100 and most of a day of your time even if you own all the tools.

 

4. Chainplates. Leak? has the deck rotted around tehm? Is there cracking near the cabin house to flat deck junction? That usually means lots of rot...recaulking is nearly free...Major bulkhead and deck repairs could be $2000

 

5. Transome rot. Gudgeons and chainplates rot out when the things get loose and wiggly....$200 to $1000

 

6. Wood walls under cockpit to hull...They are a pain to replace and if they have been used to hold moisture for 25 years...They could be in need of replacement...about $1000

 

7. Is there a solar ventilator? Does it work? if not be VERY wary of rot. Ventilators cost a couple hundred bucks. I ilke to mount them in the screw out part of the aft deck plate and remove it to sail. Don't get the battery supported blower? Why would you want to cuirculate moist night air through your daytime dried toy??

 

8. How's the trailer? Tires, lights, bearings and the obviouis stuiff cost only about $500 to redo totally but structure problems?? That could be new trailer time. $3000 and up.

 

9. all those cam cleats and lines and winches do add up to ever couple grand. How are they?

 

10. Older J-22s had a problem with the spreader bar wallowing out a huge hole in teh middle of teh mmast. Some J-22s suddenly became two section mated J-22s and the stay wires don't keep that kind of mast in the right position. If the spreaders wiggle some, you can probably fix it for a couple hundred bucks. If the wallowing is a lot, you may need a $2000 mast or do they cost more?

 

11. If I had spell check I would use it. Quit bitching about my typing and just read the damned content..

Tehy say msot poelpe can raed antyhnig wirtten if the frist and lsat ltetres are corerct and all the rmeaining letetrs are persnet.

 

12. The side seats down below generally rot at the ends and fail. Consider it costs a few hundred bucks to get new ones.

 

13. ALL Old fittings holes are suspect. They ALWAYS leak eventually.The rot invariably spreads.

 

14. Handrails are either in great shape or splinterable pieces of useless shit. Do you need new ones? if they wiggle now the deck is rotted too.

 

15. The through bolts on teh boom for vang and mainsheet wallow ot the boom. A good welder can fix that but only before you fold the boom around the vang bolt.

 

16. If the trailer is denting the hull? There may be fixing needed on both.

 

17. Does it have the new style lifting bar? if not...Make installation of one a condition of the sale. Do not ever lift any J-22 on teh old singel bolt lift syste\. If you do there are very good odds someone will be killed. The boat will beak teh old bolt and fall. It will fall on an innocent 4 year old girl who is riding past on her trike. When you kill her we will all know you are a fucking murderer.

 

18. Don't ask NYBOZO anything about J-22s. He is an ignorant F%#@er from the middle of the fleet...wait...so am I.

 

19. If the screw tops are showing through the teak rails, you need new rails. $2000 or more installed.

 

20. I really think the Class should allow fiberglass replacements for the cockpit coamings ..Click here>> Fred's contribution to the J-22 game

 

21. Lottsa folks have overstressed their mast steps by leaning the mast back and yanking on teh deck plate. If teh fractures are open the deck can rot. $500 plus to fix

 

22. If the winches are 6P the damn things will eventually freeze up.

 

23. Does the spin pole have fancy new expensive ends? over $200

 

24. Do the shrouds ahve teh fancy easy to adjust turnbuckles? Thats a couple hundred or more if the shrouds end up being replaced

 

25. the dodger hatch is notorious for rotting out all around teh fittings. Everybody mounts fittings there and since there is no room below it for teh hatch to slide back and forth, they save space by using non locking nuts...which don't lock...DUH...So teh fastenerrs get wlose and water leaks in and the rot spreads rapidly. it takes a couple hundred bucks to rebuild teh dodger and then you need all those fasteners and while you are at it YOU KNOW you will buy a bunch of cleats...$500??

 

26. Gooseneck. That little aluminum dingliedooper that connects the boom to the mast wears out....and breaks...and tears sails...etc.

 

27. How many gotchas are there on the outhaul wire?

 

which reminds me of some colorful sailor language we could be using...

 

His brain halyard still works but the wire has a few gotchas.

 

 

28. The jib track holes eventually wear out and get slanty on the front side and they cause a sort of auto self release of the car holding pins. Look at teh holes. New tracks cost something like $100

 

29. Climb all over inside the boat and look for repairs. Do they look damn near like a new boat should look or are they done with fine cloth by incompetent idiots? Re-doing repairs costs about as much as doing it right the first time.

 

30. Does the keel wiggle a little...they all do...or a lot...that's bad...weak sump...needs to be reinforced. add $500

 

31. Why is it painted? Really! What is being hidden? How did it go from new pretty boat to so beat to hell it needed a paintjob? Nobody paints a boat just to change the color. No you don't. Liar!! I said nobody!!

 

32. sails. Some folks actually DO sell J-22s with almost new sails. Some guys have two or three sets of pretty darned good rags. You almost certainly need one new suit for regattas but lottsa boats have decent sails that are just fine for the local Wednesday night races or even the summer series a the club. You can buy a suit of used one regatta sails from virtually any sailmaker or front of the fleet ( not like NYBOZO or me) sailor but a set of reasonably good rags is worth at least $1000. and new suits cost over $3000.

 

33. Compass? Electronic thing with a starting feature costs big bucks. The class requires a mounted compass.

 

 

34. Windex? Don't get a big one..but realize they cost as much as a case of the better beer.

 

35. It will be that old when you have had it a while. Think about 35 year old boats that are really nice. You know somebody MUST spend some serious time and money on this old J-22 or it will look like most old occasionally used 1970s boats look today.

 

36. MaguirePerfect36.jpg

Holy crap, this glorious piece of class promotion must have been paid for by the J/24s.

No one will ever buy a used J/22 after reading this.

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Thank you gouv, I do have a couple of questions about specific points

 

#1) moving the keel, is this just to improve the stearing or would an 1983 boat that has not had the keel moved not even measure in? Based on what little I do know about the boat faired yes, moved probably not.

 

#10) check spreader bar

 

#11) yer splllng is feni

 

#17) Got a pic of the new lifting bar so when I look at it I will know the difference.

 

#21) check mast step carefully.

 

I am not under the illusion that I have come accross the one 25 year old J22 that has been vacuume bagged in a sealed room and is waiting for me to open and mirraculously win the worlds. but every boat has its quirks and the mori I know before making a decision, the more intelligent my decision will be.

 

Lift, I don't view this as a knock on the J22. I just want to go in with my eyes wide open.

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Except maybe>>>> the connection between the tiller and the mainsheet??

 

Dude that hurts, But all that other shit has been pretty much covered.

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I am not under the illusion that I have come accross the one 25 year old J22 that has been vacuume bagged in a sealed room and is waiting for me to open and mirraculously win the worlds. but every boat has its quirks and the mori I know before making a decision, the more intelligent my decision will be.

 

Lift, I don't view this as a knock on the J22. I just want to go in with my eyes wide open.

buying a boat or falling in love...if your eyes are wide open you'd never do either

 

your list is a hoot

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Except maybe>>>> the connection between the tiller and the mainsheet??

 

That's slow on all my boats.

 

Questions and thoughts:

 

//snip//

 

//snip//

 

//snip//....//snip//....//snip//

Well Gouv thanks for that little enlightenment. As I own Hull 489 and just re-read your post and can't afford a newer boat, I'm presently slitting my wrists rather than deal with it all. And here I thought I'd been having so much fun with my boat.........up 'til now. Go to light....go to the light.....go to the....

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Oh, before I completely fade away. Both J/22 masts we bought this year came to over $4,000.00 all up with delivery and such.

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buying a boat or falling in love...if your eyes are wide open you'd never do either

 

your list is a hoot

 

LOL - better a cheap boat than cheap booze .... I'm living the life! Hull 97 with more than 15 years of neglect before I got her. She seems to like me, and didn't die when she had the chance (50 knot knockdown in a micro burst). What's not to love?

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Well Gouv thanks for that little enlightenment. As I own Hull 489 and just re-read your post and can't afford a newer boat, I'm presently slitting my wrists rather than deal with it all. And here I thought I'd been having so much fun with my boat.........up 'til now. Go to light....go to the light.....go to the....

 

 

you've been outed!

 

http://www.marinephotography.biz/search.ph...;searchtype=all

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keel...read the class rules and take along a tape measure and a pencil and do a quick measurement. it is so easy to accomplish I can do it and I am from the midle of teh fleet where NTBOZO sails..

 

as for the big numbers for maintenance?? They aren't really all that big if you consider 25 years of use and that a brand new costs about $40,000...before you begin to personalize it.

 

Most of the numbers mentioned for professional repairs could be avoided by an owner who spends an occasional weeknight or offseason weekend doing basic stuff like rebedding fittings.

 

I think a used J-2 has a great deal going for it and somewhere between $2000 and $30,000 will buy one that needs between $28,000 and $5 of maintenance this week.

 

J-22s are way cheaper fun than any powerboat of similar size and way more durable and maintenance free than the wood boats which were all we had for all of history and up to 20 years before J-22s hit the market.

 

re-stated. almost ALL the racing sailboats boats that were 25 years old when J-22s came out are long since rotted and gone. A whole bunch of 25 year old J-22s...maybe half the fleet..just sailed in the world championships. in fact one in 15 of all the J-22s ever built showed up.

 

that would be about 12,000 Lasers if they held up as well and arrived in similar percentages..

 

What J-22s need is a dealer network again so they could sell as they did back when dealers stocked them.

 

The dealers need support, guaranteed territories and no back door sales by the factory.

 

Endorsed as ISAF's official 3 man ( 600 pound team) boat, built at about $20,000 by efficient mass production, and given support as "the official tool of the game we play" the J-22 should sell at least 5000 new boats every year\ un til it really catches on and clubs start owning 100 boat local fleets so we can quit towing tehm all ovedr the place and save fuel.

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Oh, before I completely fade away. Both J/22 masts we bought this year came to over $4,000.00 all up with delivery and such.

 

Is that $4,000 each, or $4,000 for BOTH? :huh:

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Go for it! Habibi II (is that spelled right?).

 

Habebe

funny, the friend of mine who did the original graphics was in town a couple of weeks ago, she told me that she ran across the cut outs in an old box some whjere...I told her to hold on to them, ya never know....I contacted the craigs list boat just for the heck of it, she was going to get a better description and pics.... hell I can always sell the mast to Aqua Puttana for $4000

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Habebe

funny, the friend of mine who did the original graphics was in town a couple of weeks ago, she told me that she ran across the cut outs in an old box some whjere...I told her to hold on to them, ya never know....I contacted the craigs list boat just for the heck of it, she was going to get a better description and pics.... hell I can always sell the mast to Aqua Puttana for $4000

No you can't. I figure one more mast and I'll have enough Hall Spars points to get a jacket.

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No you can't. I figure one more mast and I'll have enough Hall Spars points to get a jacket.

Don't worry, Vic, they have one of those frequent buyer programs: buy 10, get the 11th one free.

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