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Ballard Sailor

Floating Jib Leads?????????????

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I'm looking into setting up floating jib leads on my small keel boat and am looking for ideas. On my 505 we had 2 lines both led forward of where we wanted the block, inboard and outboard. allowed for a lot of adjustment but I don't think it would work for a larger boat. So far I've seen boats with tracks running athwartship and boats with a single point line (both with the sheet going through a turning block) Which works best? How do you actually set it up on your boat - Placing the floating leads and all?

 

Any ideas, pictures or help would be appreciated!

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I'm looking into setting up floating jib leads on my small keel boat and am looking for ideas. On my 505 we had 2 lines both led forward of where we wanted the block, inboard and outboard. allowed for a lot of adjustment but I don't think it would work for a larger boat. So far I've seen boats with tracks running athwartship and boats with a single point line (both with the sheet going through a turning block) Which works best? How do you actually set it up on your boat - Placing the floating leads and all?

 

Any ideas, pictures or help would be appreciated!

 

 

clusterfuck? what boat is this?

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excuse my crude drawing - this is how they are done in FDs.

the sheet runs forward about three feet to the turning block and cleat.

 

a "down" puller and an "in" puller allow for +/- 4inches of play in X and Z planes. scale up for your two ton SB as needed.

post-11767-1222856129_thumb.jpg

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We have an athwartship track, floating dual block for doing changes. Similar to:

 

post-2465-1222866975_thumb.jpg

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excuse my crude drawing - this is how they are done in FDs.

the sheet runs forward about three feet to the turning block and cleat.

 

a "down" puller and an "in" puller allow for +/- 4inches of play in X and Z planes. scale up for your two ton SB as needed.

 

That contraption only exists because FDs have limit on how far aft the turning block is placed, and no limit on the foot dimension of the genoa.

 

So it is important to have a maximum aft block and the longest foot that you can trim. That results in a rigid, vertically moving lead. Those restrictions don't apply to any other boat that I know about.

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These would be the jib leads on the Speedboat. (I can't call it Virgin Money) So I believe this tosses you theory of it not working on larger boats out the window. Unless you boat is bigger than this one... Probably not...

 

IMG_0489.jpg

 

I do like the athwartship track with floating lead. We had it on a Moore 24, and it was sweet. Simple and works.

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These would be the jib leads on the Speedboat. (I can't call it Virgin Money) So I believe this tosses you theory of it not working on larger boats out the window. Unless you boat is bigger than this one... Probably not...

 

IMG_0489.jpg

 

I do like the athwartship track with floating lead. We had it on a Moore 24, and it was sweet. Simple and works.

 

 

Anything special about those padeyes?

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Anything special about those padeyes?

 

Only that they at Titanium. There is also a shock cord attached to the shroud that keeps the doughnut from hitting the deck...

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tracks are nice for round-the-buoys, padeyes work fine for off-shore when you've got more time to futz. What size boat is this for?

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I dropped a J-24 jib lead in lake travis a few years ago. it didn't float

 

Note: neither do most winch handles, ewatches, cell phones, car keys, wrenches, screwdrivers, pliers, rings, necklaces, bracelets, or any of my checks when my balance is low

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Fully floating leads (like Virgin)work great, but you must have good trimmers - there are no 'numbers' to set the lead to. Many Farr boats back in the '70's had 3:1 leads like Speedboat, with pairs of padeyes so a you could move the tackle forward to suit smaller jibs. The trimmer has to know what shape they want, since adjustment is complex. Moving just one side of the tackle moves the lead on a slant, not just up/down,in/out.

Lead systems working off a track separate the two movements as you have a dedicated up/down adj & a in/out adj, so they are somewhat easier conceptually to use.

Either of these systems will require a higher clew than a block on a track.

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This would be a Moore

 

Those are all great ideas, but how do you set it up? Place the turning block back and out (or in?) then pull the lead foward and in or ??????

 

I've got an idea on where the leads are currently, but measuring and placing the floating area seems very difficult.

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Farr 36 set-up

 

 

post-442-1222877948_thumb.jpg

 

Do you understand this setup? Could you explain it?

I understand the floating lead part of it, but the "height" adjustment end of it looks odd.

 

 

What's the deal with the snatch block on the "other" end of the lead? And what's the deal with the purchase line? Is it set up to have some large macro adjustments (either set up on long, medium or short), then you play within that range?

 

Huh?

 

-M

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This would be a Moore

 

Those are all great ideas, but how do you set it up? Place the turning block back and out (or in?) then pull the lead foward and in or ??????

 

I've got an idea on where the leads are currently, but measuring and placing the floating area seems very difficult.

 

What you want to do is have the athwartship track directly under the clew of the sail. That way you are guaranteed to not have a problem on not getting the floating lead far enough down. We did the very same thing on a Moore I was sailing on and it worked great. The clews of the genoas have to be a bit higher than normal. Feel free to PM me if you want some more insight on how to do it all.

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These would be the jib leads on the Speedboat. (I can't call it Virgin Money) So I believe this tosses you theory of it not working on larger boats out the window. Unless you boat is bigger than this one... Probably not...

 

IMG_0489.jpg

 

I do like the athwartship track with floating lead. We had it on a Moore 24, and it was sweet. Simple and works.

Handier for reaching if they were further apart.

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On a couple mini-tons I sailed we had floating leads with just in and out hauls, no tracks. Worked fine, and would be fine on a Moore 24. On the 3/4 and 1 tonners, athwartship tracks were used.

You need a trimmer who knows what he's doing. On MORC boats I sailed crew were amateurs, used fore/aft tracks to keep things manageable for trimmers... Used a simple barber haul or snatchblock for reaching when needed.

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Antal's Solid Rings might just be for you:http://www.antal.it/index.php/en/accessories/solid-ring

solidringf-en.jpg

Yes, and so would all the other manufacturers of those. Why would you mention that though, since you work for Euro Marine Trading.

 

 

 

What other manufacturer is making a SOLID ring (SOLID not LOW FRICTION) similar to the Antal?

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Antal's Solid Rings might just be for you:http://www.antal.it/index.php/en/accessories/solid-ring

solidringf-en.jpg

Yes, and so would all the other manufacturers of those. Why would you mention that though, since you work for Euro Marine Trading.

 

What other manufacturer is making a SOLID ring (SOLID not LOW FRICTION) similar to the Antal?

Go to your local REI. If you are looking for this item, or others for that matter, your wallet will thank you.

 

http://m.rei.com/product/799957/smc-riggingdescending-ring

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attachicon.gif022 (800x600).jpg no need to be too high tech

 

is that an ISSI booze cruise ??

 

why all the stuffed body-bags scattered about the bow area

 

did a wedding not go so well ?

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These would be the jib leads on the Speedboat. (I can't call it Virgin Money) So I believe this tosses you theory of it not working on larger boats out the window. Unless you boat is bigger than this one... Probably not...

 

IMG_0489.jpg

 

I do like the athwartship track with floating lead. We had it on a Moore 24, and it was sweet. Simple and works.

Looks like you are losing quite a bit of inboard/outboard trim. That is a lot of flexibility.

 

I've been thinking about this for my boat for some time, I usually design something about 10 times in my head before doing anything. So using the same Idea but I want to go from the perforated toe rail to the inboard extreme.

We have almost 24" of athwartships range for the #1. This would mean an extra line and cleat for the inboard/outboard trim and one for trimming the clew height.

I've thought about using Dyneema, the perforated toe rail and pad eye (inboard) to make this flexible and inexpensive (very important).

The Clew height adjustment could be used for the #1, 2, 3 because you usually only have one jib up at a time per side. This is handicap racing.

 

In this photo, an early one when I just bought the boat, you can see the primary winch in the cockpit. That is just about where the Jib lead sits. Imagine having the toe rail to the inside of the cockpit to set your jib lead. And now look forward to the #2 and #3 forward.

If your boat has wide side decks, do it. Otherwise if they are narrow DON'T.

 

What a wind/sea range you could trim too.

 

it sounds simple. application is another thing.

deck.jpg

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You can't use one athwartship lead for the 1, 2, and 3. Each sail will require it's own athwartship lead.

IMO, club racers should stick with a longitudal track and barber hauls.

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Mini set up.

That is pretty much what I was thinking.

Except you could use shackles to attach to the inboard pad eye and outboard perforated toerail.

This would make it very movable, flexible and removable when not sailing (protect from theft and UV).

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I'm setting up floating leads for the genoa on my moderate displacement 30 footer. Lots of good photos of the lead setup in this thread, but how is everyone cleating the control line? Harken's load calculator says the sheet load should be about 700 pounds, but what's the deflection load? I am thinking about a 3:1 or 4:1 led aft to the cockpit where I have an existing unused cam cleat that seems like it would be a good fit.

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Mini set up.

That is pretty much what I was thinking.

Except you could use soft shackles to attach to the inboard pad eye and outboard perforated toerail.

This would make it very movable, flexible and removable when not sailing (protect from theft and UV).

 

 

FIFY

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I'm setting up floating leads for the genoa on my moderate displacement 30 footer. Lots of good photos of the lead setup in this thread, but how is everyone cleating the control line? Harken's load calculator says the sheet load should be about 700 pounds, but what's the deflection load? I am thinking about a 3:1 or 4:1 led aft to the cockpit where I have an existing unused cam cleat that seems like it would be a good fit.

I will be running a 2:1 dynex down haul through a padeye then fwd to the frd corners then up the cabin top to a 4:1 purchase on the centre line. This will be led to a jammer in the main bank. In haulers will also be 2:1 then led to a 4:1 beside the other one. Tail of this will probably go to a cleat.

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I'll take a photo next time Im on the boat, but my setup on a mid displacement 30'er is 3:1 back to a ronstan medium (from memory) cam cleat. Cam cleat is in line with the halyard winch. At 3:1 it's too much to tweak by hand and adjusting by winch isn't working so well either, so will likely put another 3:1 or 4:1 beind that again.

 

I have a longitudinal pinstop track for different sails with the floating lead providing adjustment. No infucker due to cavbin constraints, and I just didn't need it. My sailmaker seemed to like it. IxJ 10.2x3.1m ish, but the jib is about 18m^2 tacked back to the inboard shrouds. No space for a track between the shrouds and the cabin top but the floater buys me maybe 8-12" of foot length

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I did full floating leads on a Santana 35 a few years back - using a 150% genoa. The up/down was on 3x 2:1s in cascade, for a total of 8:1. This was just enough. The in/out was on a 2:1 with a 6:1 pulling on the end for a theoretical total of 12:1. BUT the 2:1 part of the in/out was a wide angle and I bet it was worth 0 advantage. So let's say 6:1, this was not enough to adjust under load.

 

However, the main thing I learned was that you almost never want to ease the 'in' line unless your sails are totally pooched anyways. With that boat we were very fast with the clew about 12" inboard of the stock jib tracks from the 80s, and I would be that is true of most boats these days with a decent genoa. There's something to be said for simplicity.

 

My current Schock 35 had transverse tracks for the #1 and #2 positions. Now it just has an inboard and an outboard track run fore and aft. We only use the outboard track when we are one tack left on a short beat and need to carry the heavy #1 above it's range, or when reaching. I bet we could just lose the outside one and use the toerail for a barberhauler and not be any slower.

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