Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

marian

Sodeb'O RTW

Recommended Posts

Will he or won't he..............get past the Cape of Good Hope? Sort of a gaudy tracker, IMHO <_<

post-200-1227035179_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only speak from my experience while sailing with Thomas Coville aboard Sodeb'O on a recent September day when the winds were wonderful and the Bay of Quiberon was perfect. If there is any skipper alive, on any boat in existence, that can take the RTW record from Joyon, it is Thomas Coville aboard Sodeb'O.

 

Standing alone out at the pulpit, while the boat was loafing along at 26 knots in 19 of breeze is one of the world's great E-Ticket rides. I felt no compunction to preach, or yell, just to soak-in the feeling of having been there while stashing the sensory understanding forever in my memory banks. Truly, an experience of a lifetime.

 

This man, Thomas Coville, is intuitive in his understanding of his boat, while remaining a beautiful soul who seeks to find his potential in concert with the sea.

 

What more can one ask.

 

Chris Ostlind

Lunada Design

www.lunadadesign.com

 

Cross-posted at Multihull Anarchy for world-wide coverage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In which case, I presume you advocate that people should take the VOR and Vendee to Sailing Anarchy?

 

that's a really stupid presumption unfounded on facts that Volvo and Vendee are monohull races.

 

but that's ok, marian, we don't want you to start crying that people don't follow your thread.

 

s.

So monohull races are OK in Ocean Anarchy, but round the world multihull record attempts are not. Wonderful logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In which case, I presume you advocate that people should take the VOR and Vendee to Sailing Anarchy?

 

that's a really stupid presumption unfounded on facts that Volvo and Vendee are monohull races.

 

but that's ok, marian, we don't want you to start crying that people don't follow your thread.

 

s.

If she hadn't started the Sodeb'O thread, I would have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I can't stand Marian's approach to journalism either, leave her be on this one. SODEBO's RTW attempt belongs here just fine. You guys had no problem with Joyon's thread.

 

I am interested, so thanks for starting the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How ironic that a Frenchman would have a screen name after a war TV show :lol:

 

Could it be that this specific frog has precisely a particular liking for, say, the irony of aforementioned movie ? :P

 

More to the point, we should set a bet on when Sodebo will start passing by Vendee boats. I didn't have a close look to the routing forecast, but the back of the pack should be in his crosshairs in no time now.

 

M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weather and routing info on Saturday, 22Nov08 (note: data also applies for some of the VG fleet)...

post-200-1227364078_thumb.png

post-200-1227364086_thumb.png

post-200-1227364096_thumb.png

post-200-1227364105_thumb.png

post-200-1227364117_thumb.png

post-200-1227364128_thumb.png

post-200-1227364141_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Behind now and racing the king to the Equator...(go Francis :rolleyes:

 

 

Hardly surprising given that the margins have not been that big at all.

 

Where do we think there might be opportunity to make up time? FJ had a couple of big storms in the south IIRC, but there are not many obvious chances to make up time on him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly, Joyon had very good conditions. But he said that it was possible to shave maximum of some days in a perfect run. Forgot which part could be improved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe that Joyon lost a couple of days on the run up the Atlantic, and a bit more time due to mast problems in the closing stages of the race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In which case, I presume you advocate that people should take the VOR and Vendee to Sailing Anarchy?

 

that's a really stupid presumption unfounded on facts that Volvo and Vendee are monohull races.

 

but that's ok, marian, we don't want you to start crying that people don't follow your thread.

 

s.

So monohull races are OK in Ocean Anarchy, but round the world multihull record attempts are not. Wonderful logic.

 

speaking of logic, it would be logical to have all things multihull in multihull anarchy. roll DogZilla in there too. but then you'll start crying that you can't post photos of alinghy sailing some irrelevant regatta in valencia.

 

s.

Do you just post here just to be a cunt? or is there another reason?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no expert in routing but this looks bad to me. That high in the S. Atlantic needs to move east to give Thomas a lane to the southern ocean. If memory serves Joyon had beautiful conditions in the S. Atlantic that carried him all the way to the Indian ocean. Any commentary for us B2S?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm no expert in routing but this looks bad to me. That high in the S. Atlantic needs to move east to give Thomas a lane to the southern ocean. If memory serves Joyon had beautiful conditions in the S. Atlantic that carried him all the way to the Indian ocean. Any commentary for us B2S?

It is bad. Goto http://trimaran-idec.geovoile.com/tourdumonde2007/ and you can replay IDEC's record RTW run. Francis really lucked out transiting the South Atlantic to the Southern Ocean. He was able to make a commitment east on Day9 at about 16*S and never went more west than about 29*30'W.

 

Thomas is on Day7. Unless he's willing to subject Sodeb'O to some ugly upwind sailing, it looks like the skipper is going to spend more time than he likes along the S. Brazil/N. Argentine coast.

post-200-1227641067_thumb.png

post-200-1227641077_thumb.png

post-200-1227641091_thumb.png

post-200-1227641103_thumb.png

post-200-1227641115_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the charts. Hope that he can thread the needle and not have to go too far south before his turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The separation is 930 nm between Sodeb'O at the Day12 spot, and IDEC at the Day13 spot. At Thomas' current SOG, when Sodeb'O reaches her Day13 spot, the separation between the same-day marks for the two boats would be approx 565 nm. That's getting to be one heck of hill to climb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... the separation between the same-day marks for the two boats would be approx 565 nm.

 

Right.

But how comes they show an advantage of only 268nm for Joyon on the Sodebo homepage?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... the separation between the same-day marks for the two boats would be approx 565 nm.

 

Right.

But how comes they show an advantage of only 268nm for Joyon on the Sodebo homepage?

I'm measuring distance between the boats. The data on the Sodeb'O tracker is based on distance to finish. More to be gained by diving south than racing east. But as IDEC's track continues toward the SE while Sodeb'O's track flattens out toward the E, the separation shown on Thomas' website is going to grow. It will be hard for Thomas to make big gains based on SOG, because Joyon's average speed in the S.O. was substantial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... the separation between the same-day marks for the two boats would be approx 565 nm.

 

Right.

But how comes they show an advantage of only 268nm for Joyon on the Sodebo homepage?

I'm measuring distance between the boats. The data on the Sodeb'O tracker is based on distance to finish. More to be gained by diving south than racing east. But as IDEC's track continues toward the SE while Sodeb'O's track flattens out toward the E, the separation shown on Thomas' website is going to grow. It will be hard for Thomas to make big gains based on SOG, because Joyon's average speed in the S.O. was substantial.

Situation looks interesting. When do you think we will know whether he has caught the train?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... the separation between the same-day marks for the two boats would be approx 565 nm.

 

Right.

But how comes they show an advantage of only 268nm for Joyon on the Sodebo homepage?

I'm measuring distance between the boats. The data on the Sodeb'O tracker is based on distance to finish. More to be gained by diving south than racing east. But as IDEC's track continues toward the SE while Sodeb'O's track flattens out toward the E, the separation shown on Thomas' website is going to grow. It will be hard for Thomas to make big gains based on SOG, because Joyon's average speed in the S.O. was substantial.

Situation looks interesting. When do you think we will know whether he has caught the train?

 

Well, let me say this about that...as of the time of this post, IDEC was clipping along at more than 25 knots on a heading of 134*T on her way to 44*S. Sodeb'O doing just over 21 knots on a heading of 96*T, at 37*20'S with no wind above 20 knots at that or any Lat within a degree or three. The good news is, Thomas is in the southern easterly flow. The less than good news is, he's on NW edge of the good stuff and cannot afford any kind of thing that would prevent him from continuing on as he is now...even then it's hard to see how Sodeb'O can make gains...IDEC is about to take off. Take a look at the distance covered between IDEC day markers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... the separation between the same-day marks for the two boats would be approx 565 nm.

 

Right.

But how comes they show an advantage of only 268nm for Joyon on the Sodebo homepage?

I'm measuring distance between the boats. The data on the Sodeb'O tracker is based on distance to finish. More to be gained by diving south than racing east. But as IDEC's track continues toward the SE while Sodeb'O's track flattens out toward the E, the separation shown on Thomas' website is going to grow. It will be hard for Thomas to make big gains based on SOG, because Joyon's average speed in the S.O. was substantial.

Situation looks interesting. When do you think we will know whether he has caught the train?

 

Well, let me say this about that...as of the time of this post, IDEC was clipping along at more than 25 knots on a heading of 134*T on her way to 44*S. Sodeb'O doing just over 21 knots on a heading of 96*T, at 37*20'S with no wind above 20 knots at that or any Lat within a degree or three. The good news is, Thomas is in the southern easterly flow. The less than good news is, he's on NW edge of the good stuff and cannot afford any kind of thing that would prevent him from continuing on as he is now...even then it's hard to see how Sodeb'O can make gains...IDEC is about to take off. Take a look at the distance covered between IDEC day markers.

Very interesting stuff. This is where Francis started setting new 24hr records. On the other hand if Thomas catches the train he has the faster boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a model Southern Ocean freight train. When IDEC got on the track, Francis was able to stay on the front edge of things with winds in the mid-twenties or better well past the Cape. Compare then to now...

post-200-1228082939_thumb.png

post-200-1228083263_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best be careful.... lots of ice down there at the moment. I know it has to be tempting, given the deficit he currently has, but there is tons of hard stuff bobbing about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully one of the RTW sites will feature a good ice chart of sorts. In the meantime, if memory serves the skippers get seriously vigilant when the sea temp goes <5*c and go on bergie bits and growler watch when the temp is <3*c.

 

Haji, is that about right?

post-200-1228420477_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check out the Vendee site for the update yesterday or the day before. They had a video of the Vendee race director talking about the reasoning for moving their next gate northward, and discussion about the amount of bergs floating out there right now. He shows screen shot of iceberg locations along the rhumb line, but unfortunately I can not tell what his source is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Check out the Vendee site for the update yesterday or the day before. They had a video of the Vendee race director talking about the reasoning for moving their next gate northward, and discussion about the amount of bergs floating out there right now. He shows screen shot of iceberg locations along the rhumb line, but unfortunately I can not tell what his source is.

Thanks, I'll check it out. Unfortunately, there aren't many, if any, good ice tracking sites on the net for the south like there is for the north. The Vendee folks probably contracted with somebody like http://www.cmar.csiro.au/index.html who collected ice data for one or both of the last two VOR's and I think the same outfit does general meteo and oceanography stuff for the S2H as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look on in Gallery > Media > Videos and then look for the Daily Update: Day 24. They start talking about the ice around 45 seconds into the video. Apparently they are using a service by the name of CLS. who is picking up the bergs using radar from satellites.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Look on in Gallery > Media > Videos and then look for the Daily Update: Day 24. They start talking about the ice around 45 seconds into the video. Apparently they are using a service by the name of CLS. who is picking up the bergs using radar from satellites.

Check out the post on the Vendee thread...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't help feeling that jacking it in and going back for another shot might be Thomas' wisest move now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't help feeling that jacking it in and going back for another shot might be Thomas' wisest move now.

All's not lost, but he definitely needs to stop the bleeding. Right now, his challenge is to start lopping off 50 nm of the deficit for every 1060 nm remaining toward the finish. Chunked that way, it doesn't seem like an insurmountable task. If Sodeb'O is the bigger faster boat, she better start proving it pronto.

 

One thing that will make the numbers look better is if Thomas sails a course farther to the south than the one IDEC sailed. Maybe one of the math majors can do the numbers for a course that's one or two degrees "souther" than Joyon's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the ugly look on Friday, 05Dec08 (other weather and routing info here...

 

Crikey, it must be a frustrating sea state that kept Thomas from diving south. The hole he's in now was definitely avoidable otherwise.

 

This posting includes an image from the IDEC tracker for Joyon's position shown on the Sodeb'O tracker. It makes Thomas' challenge that much more daunting.

post-200-1228497383_thumb.png

post-200-1228497392_thumb.png

post-200-1228497401_thumb.png

post-200-1228497410_thumb.png

post-200-1228497426_thumb.png

post-200-1228497443_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8.3 knots at a heading of 47...How painful is that?

Crushingly so. Terrible speed in the wrong direction and on the bad side of things. Is it Mother Nature, or Routing Nurture?

 

Thomas is almost 2 days down, plugging along at 12 knots toward Madagascar while IDEC blasts her way toward the Kerguelens at a zippy 25 knots. This is not a recipe for success, unless your name is Francis Joyon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8.3 knots at a heading of 47...How painful is that?

Crushingly so. Terrible speed in the wrong direction and on the bad side of things. Is it Mother Nature, or Routing Nurture?

Thomas is almost 2 days down, plugging along at 12 knots toward Madagascar while IDEC blasts her way toward the Kerguelens at a zippy 25 knots. This is not a recipe for success, unless your name is Francis Joyon.

I find it painful to follow. Please go home Thomas and start again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calm down, As much as I would like FJ to retain his crown: The "flying pizza" is one day ahead of her own previous attempt,

 

Sodeb'O 07 Sodeb'0 08

 

07d 06h 18' 07d 00h 28' Equator

17d 22h 33'' 16d 12h 23' Good Hope

 

And has been faster on the water than IDEC2 which might help on the way up, I'll keep my bets open till Tasmania.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that will make the numbers look better is if Thomas sails a course farther to the south than the one IDEC sailed. Maybe one of the math majors can do the numbers for a course that's one or two degrees "souther" than Joyon's.

 

I am confused:

According to Covilles tracker he has now, 10 hrs into day 18, a DTF of 16948nm and 40 days left to break the record.

This would require an average of ~424nm/24hrs.

But Joyons tracker shows for day 16 (9/12/2007 - about Thomas' present position) a DTF of 15133nm! The difference seems too big. Which one is right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that will make the numbers look better is if Thomas sails a course farther to the south than the one IDEC sailed. Maybe one of the math majors can do the numbers for a course that's one or two degrees "souther" than Joyon's.

 

I am confused:

According to Covilles tracker he has now, 10 hrs into day 18, a DTF of 16948nm and 40 days left to break the record.

This would require an average of ~424nm/24hrs.

But Joyons tracker shows for day 16 (9/12/2007 - about Thomas' present position) a DTF of 15133nm! The difference seems too big. Which one is right?

The IDEC tracker shows DTF for Joyon @ 14625 miles and on the Sodeb'O tracker shows Joyon's DTF @ 16186 miles at approx the same lat/lon. If you assume the IDEC number is nautical miles and convert to statute, the number is 16830. It could be something as simple as that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The IDEC tracker shows DTF for Joyon @ 14625 miles and on the Sodeb'O tracker shows Joyon's DTF @ 16186 miles at approx the same lat/lon. If you assume the IDEC number is nautical miles and convert to statute, the number is 16830. It could be something as simple as that.

 

Thank you! Guess it is as simple as that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was Denis Diderot who once said, "Thomas Coville cannot be free until his last weatherman is strangled with the entrails from his last router." Of course, I might be wrong. Other weather and routing stuff here...

post-200-1228582532_thumb.png

post-200-1228582542_thumb.png

post-200-1228582550_thumb.png

post-200-1228582558_thumb.png

post-200-1228582569_thumb.png

post-200-1228582583_thumb.png

post-200-1228582590_thumb.png

post-200-1228582605_thumb.png

post-200-1228582613_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost to a new record already. 615nm at 17:45 sched, his old record being 619 and Joyon's top distance being 613. Doing 28 knots he should be able to stay in the front quarter of this low for a while yet, so should blow his old record away. At least to 630 given he had two slow scheds at this time yesterday, and maybe he'll push it to 650 by the time his sun comes up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the bag! 622.7nm at 18:30, at least according to his website, with at least three hours more of rapid advances, then slower increases if he can continue to hold on. Good press for his sponsors even if these speeds barely allow him to claw back a few miles on Joyon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, looks like he's dropped off the pace. One of the intermediate 15 minute scheds showed 628nm, so perhaps that will be the new record, an average just over 26 knots!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He has a big mountain to climb.

 

Just something I have been wondering: How come 2 wheels on this boat? It seems like there would be little gained. Does it really give that much more visibility? He is on the wheel so infrequently, and the boat is so wide. Perhaps the hard dodger or whatever it is called is just too big to see around with one wheel...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Least he's stemmed the bleeding for now but if he wants to get IDEC in the south he's got to go down to 60S and play chicken with the icebergs. The only chance that Coville beats/catches up to IDEC is to have perfect weather coming up the South Atlantic...and that stretch of water has been a parking lot for quite a few RTW attempts.

On the other hand...if he does abandon the attempt he might just make it to Sydney in time for Boxing Day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he is still about 1000 miles back at Cape Horn is it possible he could reel Joyon in in the Atlantics?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If he is still about 1000 miles back at Cape Horn is it possible he could reel Joyon in in the Atlantics?

It took IDEC +21 days to make it from Cape Horn to Brest. Francis had his hands full rounding the Cape, the Atlantic ITCZ was what it is, and neither the St Helens High nor the Azores High cut him any slack. If Thomas makes it thru Drake Passage will little or no trouble, and if he catches a break with both the South and North Atlantic Highs and sails the ITCZ smartly he can make up a deficit of 1,000 nm.

 

Roughly speaking Sodeb'O would have to sail approx 11nm for every 10 sailed by IDEC. Every day that he fell short of that objective would have an exponentially negative effect on his chances. After sailing 20,000 nm, it's hard to expect a boat and her skipper to sail the last 8000-9000 nm perfectly, with all the weather breaking in favor of the sailor.

 

Even if Thomas catches all the breaks from OZ to Brest, Sodeb'O needs to sailed efficiently and much closer to her reported potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that. 628.5nm is their claim. It appears he eventually decided the wind was building too much and he could only handle a certain level of insanity!

 

I did not realize they were posting English News - good to be able to read about him. I miss Presuming ED who helped so much with translations for Joyon last time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for that. 628.5nm is their claim. It appears he eventually decided the wind was building too much and he could only handle a certain level of insanity!

 

I did not realize they were posting English News - good to be able to read about him. I miss Presuming ED who helped so much with translations for Joyon last time around.

Word/Outlook 2003 has a translation feature. Copy the French text and paste it in a new email or Word doc. Highlight the text and right click. You'll see translation in the drop down box. Pick French to... and bingo a translation will appear (hilarious most times, and understandable usually) in the lower right box. Highlight and copy that text then paste it in the doc so it's easier to read.

 

Here's an example:

post-200-1229036600_thumb.png

post-200-1229036611_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it time to get the fork ready? A few other weather and routing factoids here...

 

PS: Interesting to see the conditions forming below 50*S for Sodeb'O and compare them to the conditions IDEC was sailing in a year ago.

post-200-1229102383_thumb.png

post-200-1229102393_thumb.png

post-200-1229102403_thumb.png

post-200-1229102414_thumb.png

post-200-1229102424_thumb.png

post-200-1229102436_thumb.png

post-200-1229102444_thumb.png

post-200-1229102452_thumb.png

post-200-1229102464_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

refackingdiculous... 1.8 knots?

 

What the hell is this, a Sodeb'O impersonation of Vessel Tracking Unit MET595?

 

Thomas had no business being that far north in the first gall dang place, ice or no ice (easy for someone to say, sitting in a comfy chair on the Second Floor of Sodeb'Oaholics Anonymous, eh? :rolleyes: . It might be worth repeating what's already been said...maybe Thomas needs to hang his last weatherman with the entrails from his last router.

post-200-1229142527_thumb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at what point do you abort, and go back. No point in carelessly breaking the boat. He could always try again some other time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites