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Jollymon

South Sound Series Begins

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Next weekend is Tacoma Vashon. We all know that Minorthreat will be by his fireplace, but who else will be there?

 

I will be on Liberte, a C&C 115.

 

JM

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Next weekend is Tacoma Vashon. We all know that Minorthreat will be by his fireplace, but who else will be there?

 

I will be on Liberte, a C&C 115.

 

JM

 

Actually MT will be sailing with me on Jack Rabbit. Took a lot of rum to convince him to go.

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Next weekend is Tacoma Vashon. We all know that Minorthreat will be by his fireplace, but who else will be there?

 

I will be on Liberte, a C&C 115.

 

JM

 

Actually MT will be sailing with me on Jack Rabbit. Took a lot of rum to convince him to go.

 

Now that's a scary thought. Guess we'll be favoring the other end of the starting line! :o

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Next weekend is Tacoma Vashon. We all know that Minorthreat will be by his fireplace, but who else will be there?

 

I will be on Liberte, a C&C 115.

 

JM

 

Actually MT will be sailing with me on Jack Rabbit. Took a lot of rum to convince him to go.

 

Now that's a scary thought. Guess we'll be favoring the other end of the starting line! :o

Don't worry, the hole will follow you...

 

Silverheels is in

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Absolutely will be pushing water out of the way for the series.

 

Any CYC Seattle folks interested in doing the YC Team bit?

 

White Cloud could join that party.

 

But, not being quite so pushy, we'd prefer sliding over the top of the waves at least some of the time. ;)

 

Any ideas about a third? Beer & Now maybe?

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No party on Friday, right?

 

At least they gave us a new trophy to go after:

 

NEW SERIES AWARD: In addition to the Series Overall Perpetual Trophy (see above), the Southern Sound Series will also award the Best Fleet Performance Trophy for the PHRF boat with the lowest cumulative overall score (all boats, not counting multihulls or cruising classes). There will be no throwout race applied to this score regardless of the number of races completed. Be the first boat to have its name inscribed on this new award!

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No party on Friday, right?

 

At least they gave us a new trophy to go after:

 

NEW SERIES AWARD: In addition to the Series Overall Perpetual Trophy (see above), the Southern Sound Series will also award the Best Fleet Performance Trophy for the PHRF boat with the lowest cumulative overall score (all boats, not counting multihulls or cruising classes). There will be no throwout race applied to this score regardless of the number of races completed. Be the first boat to have its name inscribed on this new award!

Did the party get canceled?

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Absolutely will be pushing water out of the way for the series.

 

Any CYC Seattle folks interested in doing the YC Team bit?

 

White Cloud could join that party.

 

But, not being quite so pushy, we'd prefer sliding over the top of the waves at least some of the time. ;)

 

Any ideas about a third? Beer & Now maybe?

 

 

That should work. I think we all need to be in different classes. I'm assuming we won't be in the same one since I push water out of the way and you dance over the top...

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Absolutely will be pushing water out of the way for the series.

 

Any CYC Seattle folks interested in doing the YC Team bit?

 

White Cloud could join that party.

 

But, not being quite so pushy, we'd prefer sliding over the top of the waves at least some of the time. ;)

 

Any ideas about a third? Beer & Now maybe?

 

 

That should work. I think we all need to be in different classes. I'm assuming we won't be in the same one since I push water out of the way and you dance over the top...

 

Yes, all the boats have to be in different classes and we usually get tossed into P-1 with the big boys where we get to watch their transoms disappear.

 

I'm not sure Pat hangs out here, so maybe you could get hold of him somehow??? Or is there a 100+ rating CYC'er who does waste their time on SA?? Anyone?

 

 

And somebody better give you the newbie greeting soon!

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No party on Friday, right?

 

At least they gave us a new trophy to go after:

 

NEW SERIES AWARD: In addition to the Series Overall Perpetual Trophy (see above), the Southern Sound Series will also award the Best Fleet Performance Trophy for the PHRF boat with the lowest cumulative overall score (all boats, not counting multihulls or cruising classes). There will be no throwout race applied to this score regardless of the number of races completed. Be the first boat to have its name inscribed on this new award!

 

 

I think the party is on.

Did you read this somewhere.... or did you take too much of your "medicine" this afternoon?

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Snake Oil, now equipped with a wheel!

 

What's the weather forcast? Are we going to see some snow again?

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I think the party is on.

Did you read this somewhere.... or did you take too much of your "medicine" this afternoon?

 

I just couldn't find any details about it on the web site. You'd know better than me.

 

 

And yes, I could be a little loopy from the two antibiotics and two decongestants they put me on. At least I got Vicodin too.

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We shall be there... The party is on Friday night, I believe - as well as the breakfast in the morning...

 

Shall be fun...

Of course there is a party! What would the start of the Southern Sound Series be without a Friday night party before the Winter Vashon. Class breaks will be made on Friday night and there will be a no host breakfast begining at 7 AM Saturday morning.

 

Moe

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We shall be there... The party is on Friday night, I believe - as well as the breakfast in the morning...

 

Shall be fun...

Of course there is a party! What would the start of the Southern Sound Series be without a Friday night party before the Winter Vashon. Class breaks will be made on Friday night and there will be a no host breakfast begining at 7 AM Saturday morning.

 

Moe

Hope there is a party! I rely on the free dinner so I won't starve!

 

Great White will be there in Level 73 class.

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We shall be there... The party is on Friday night, I believe - as well as the breakfast in the morning...

 

Shall be fun...

Of course there is a party! What would the start of the Southern Sound Series be without a Friday night party before the Winter Vashon. Class breaks will be made on Friday night and there will be a no host breakfast begining at 7 AM Saturday morning.

 

Moe

 

 

There is a host breakfast - $7 or $9.00 per Sat morning... unless the info on the website(s) is mistaken... I wouldn't know less than what is read off the sites, as this is our first time in this series....

 

None the less will be a great time... We will do better with the long haul, being "furniture hauler class" - versus all that silly rounding the marks ;)

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What's the weather forcast? Are we going to see some snow again?

 

 

NOAA this morning says:

 

Sat

S wind 10 to 15 kt. Wind waves 1 or 2 ft.

 

No mention of rain or snow.

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What's the weather forcast? Are we going to see some snow again?

 

 

NOAA this morning says:

 

Sat

S wind 10 to 15 kt. Wind waves 1 or 2 ft.

 

No mention of rain or snow.

 

And we all know how accurate NOAA forcasts are this far out. <_<

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And we all know how accurate NOAA forcasts are this far out. <_<

 

Just the messenger, not saying I believe it.

 

and for what it's worth, the forecast is currently calling for upper 40s to low 50's for temps.

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Absolutely will be pushing water out of the way for the series.

 

Any CYC Seattle folks interested in doing the YC Team bit?

 

White Cloud could join that party.

 

But, not being quite so pushy, we'd prefer sliding over the top of the waves at least some of the time. ;)

 

Any ideas about a third? Beer & Now maybe?

 

 

That should work. I think we all need to be in different classes. I'm assuming we won't be in the same one since I push water out of the way and you dance over the top...

 

Yes, all the boats have to be in different classes and we usually get tossed into P-1 with the big boys where we get to watch their transoms disappear.

 

I'm not sure Pat hangs out here, so maybe you could get hold of him somehow??? Or is there a 100+ rating CYC'er who does waste their time on SA?? Anyone?

 

 

And somebody better give you the newbie greeting soon!

 

 

I'll check with Pat.

 

I'm guest driving this weekend so don't expect greatness.

I'm not used to performing under thoes conditions.

 

I think the gardner has to work.

We are in a recession ya know!

 

KS

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Absolutely will be pushing water out of the way for the series.

 

Any CYC Seattle folks interested in doing the YC Team bit?

 

White Cloud could join that party.

 

But, not being quite so pushy, we'd prefer sliding over the top of the waves at least some of the time. ;)

 

Any ideas about a third? Beer & Now maybe?

 

 

That should work. I think we all need to be in different classes. I'm assuming we won't be in the same one since I push water out of the way and you dance over the top...

 

Yes, all the boats have to be in different classes and we usually get tossed into P-1 with the big boys where we get to watch their transoms disappear.

 

I'm not sure Pat hangs out here, so maybe you could get hold of him somehow??? Or is there a 100+ rating CYC'er who does waste their time on SA?? Anyone?

 

 

And somebody better give you the newbie greeting soon!

 

 

I'll check with Pat.

 

I'm guest driving this weekend so don't expect greatness.

I'm not used to performing under thoes conditions.

 

I think the gardner has to work.

We are in a recession ya know!

 

KS

 

 

 

I will believe that when I see it!!!

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What's the weather forcast? Are we going to see some snow again?

 

 

NOAA this morning says:

 

Sat

S wind 10 to 15 kt. Wind waves 1 or 2 ft.

 

No mention of rain or snow.

No mention of snow last year either

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What's the weather forcast? Are we going to see some snow again?

 

 

NOAA this morning says:

 

Sat

S wind 10 to 15 kt. Wind waves 1 or 2 ft.

 

No mention of rain or snow.

No mention of snow last year either

http://www.atmos.washington.edu/data/marine_report.html

PZZ135-030515-

PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL- 300 PM PST TUE DEC 2 2008

 

TONIGHT...S WIND 10 TO 15 KT...BECOMING LIGHT LATE. WIND WAVES 2 FT OR LESS. PATCHY FOG.

WED...LIGHT WIND BECOMING N 10 KT LATE. WIND WAVES 1 FT OR LESS. PATCHY MORNING FOG.

WED NIGHT...N WIND 10 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT. PATCHY FOG.

THU...NE WIND TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FT OR LESS.

THU NIGHT...SE WIND TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FT OR LESS.

FRI...S WIND 10 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT.

 

SAT...SW WIND 10 TO 15 KT...BECOMING S 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT BUILDING TO 2 TO 4 FT.

 

SUN...S WIND 15 TO 25 KT...BECOMING SW. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT

 

Discussion says http://www.atmos.washington.edu/data/disc_report.html

MODEL GUIDANCE STARTS TO DIVERGE ON FRIDAY'S FORECAST...WITH THE GFS

SOLUTION BREAKING THE RIDGE DOWN AND MOVING RAIN IN FROM THE NORTH

AFTER 00Z SATURDAY. THE NAM ACTUALLY BRINGS THE RAIN IN SOONER...AND

BOTH MODELS KEEP US WET ON SATURDAY. THE ECMWF CONTINUES TO KEEP THE

RIDGE OVERHEAD...AND ACTUALLY DOES NOT MOVE ANY PRECIPITATION IN

UNTIL SATURDAY NIGHT. THE CANADIAN ALSO FAVORS THIS DRIER SOLUTION

 

And here is the Extended model http://www.atmos.washington.edu/mm5rt/extendedgfsinit.html

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Absolutely will be pushing water out of the way for the series.

 

Any CYC Seattle folks interested in doing the YC Team bit?

 

White Cloud could join that party.

 

But, not being quite so pushy, we'd prefer sliding over the top of the waves at least some of the time. ;)

 

Any ideas about a third? Beer & Now maybe?

 

 

That should work. I think we all need to be in different classes. I'm assuming we won't be in the same one since I push water out of the way and you dance over the top...

 

Yes, all the boats have to be in different classes and we usually get tossed into P-1 with the big boys where we get to watch their transoms disappear.

 

I'm not sure Pat hangs out here, so maybe you could get hold of him somehow??? Or is there a 100+ rating CYC'er who does waste their time on SA?? Anyone?

 

 

And somebody better give you the newbie greeting soon!

 

 

I'll check with Pat.

 

I'm guest driving this weekend so don't expect greatness.

I'm not used to performing under thoes conditions.

 

I think the gardner has to work.

We are in a recession ya know!

 

KS

 

 

Pat says he wouldn't mind being on the CYC team as long as you know he will not be going to Toliva!

 

So, it's up to you guys.

 

KS

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When I started this thread, I had that post from MT in mind and was very surprized to hear he was going out this weekend.

 

JM

 

That post is "frozen" in my mind since last year while beating up the east side of the island in the snow.

 

 

Pt. Robinson just as shit was hitting the fan last year;

 

SmithIsland08032.jpg

 

 

Don't ferget to bring your personal flask.....

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It's funny..maybe funny as in "too stupid to know better" funny or "just plain nuts" funny...but I recall last years race as a really good time.

 

It was snowing and breezy and all that, but snow bouncing off jackets is a whole lot better than wet, cold rain. It was all smiles, all day on board our ride.

 

And the crew lubrication program seemed to be nicely balanced between goal-oriented and dis-oriented. ;)

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It's funny..maybe funny as in "too stupid to know better" funny or "just plain nuts" funny...but I recall last years race as a really good time.

 

It was snowing and breezy and all that, but snow bouncing off jackets is a whole lot better than wet, cold rain. It was all smiles, all day on board our ride.

 

And the crew lubrication program seemed to be nicely balanced between goal-oriented and dis-oriented. ;)

 

I'd rather have last years weather than a drift fest that's finished at the north end of the island.

I've had plenty of Vashon Island races where you spend a long long time still being able to see the start line.

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When I started this thread, I had that post from MT in mind and was very surprized to hear he was going out this weekend.

 

JM

 

That post is "frozen" in my mind since last year while beating up the east side of the island in the snow.

 

Well to be totally honest I found a team to sail with that is fun on a great boat and they let me drive so I figured its not going to get any better than that so I need to put my personal agenda aside and take one for the team. If that means sailing all winter so be it i am but a mere cog in the big machine. Let it be known if I still had my own boat it would be at the f&$%ing dock all winter long.

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When I started this thread, I had that post from MT in mind and was very surprized to hear he was going out this weekend.

 

JM

 

That post is "frozen" in my mind since last year while beating up the east side of the island in the snow.

 

Well to be totally honest I found a team to sail with that is fun on a great boat and they let me drive so I figured its not going to get any better than that so I need to put my personal agenda aside and take one for the team. If that means sailing all winter so be it i am but a mere cog in the big machine. Let it be known if I still had my own boat it would be at the f&$%ing dock all winter long.

 

be honest , you just like the abuse

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"And the crew lubrication program seemed to be nicely balanced between goal-oriented and dis-oriented."

 

Did that come from a 6 sigma project?

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The excitement over this thread is overwhelming.....

PZZ135-050500-PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL-300 PM PST THU DEC 4 2008

 

TONIGHT...LIGHT WIND. WIND WAVES LESS THAN 1 FT. AREAS OF FOG DEVELOPING.

FRI...LIGHT WIND. WIND WAVES LESS THAN 1 FT. AREAS OF MORNING FOG.

FRI NIGHT...S WIND 5 TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FT OR LESS. A CHANCE OF RAIN AFTER MIDNIGHT.

 

SAT...S WIND 15 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT. A CHANCE OF RAIN.

 

SAT NIGHT...S WIND 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 2 FT OR LESS. RAIN LIKELY.

Dunno about you but 15-20 is pretty damn exciting. Much better than 5-10 or 2-6

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The excitement over this thread is overwhelming.....

PZZ135-050500-PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL-300 PM PST THU DEC 4 2008

 

TONIGHT...LIGHT WIND. WIND WAVES LESS THAN 1 FT. AREAS OF FOG DEVELOPING.

FRI...LIGHT WIND. WIND WAVES LESS THAN 1 FT. AREAS OF MORNING FOG.

FRI NIGHT...S WIND 5 TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FT OR LESS. A CHANCE OF RAIN AFTER MIDNIGHT.

 

SAT...S WIND 15 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 3 FT. A CHANCE OF RAIN.

 

SAT NIGHT...S WIND 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 2 FT OR LESS. RAIN LIKELY.

Dunno about you but 15-20 is pretty damn exciting. Much better than 5-10 or 2-6

 

 

 

That'll change. And change again, and then "what they said" won't happen, except it might and then again....

 

BTW, the currents mostly suck. At least that's what "they say".

 

Race it like you rented it.

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Just saw Dragonfly "FLY" by the north end of Colvos/Vashon at about 15 kts..10:25am. Not too bad....wind is filling in from the south at about 10-12kts.

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Well, um, it was a nice day for a sail. It didn't snow this time, and you could see Mt. Rainier all day. And yes, we were one of the "OCS" boats.

 

JM

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Where to start?

 

First gun was supposed to be at 9am, not 8:55am

First start was fine

Second start was interupted to allow ferry out of slip, but no postponment flag flown, just resumed sequence. Most of the fleet did not catch the importance of this delay and assumed committee had timing issues and continued starting with the initial timing.

After second start, individual recall flag flown for about a minute and taken down. No other action taken by RC.

Class flags were extremely small and could not be seen from opposite end of line because of small size and the fact they hung down around the pole due to fact RC was on the sheltered deck with no wind to fly flags. So boats were starting at the wrong time.

 

Feel free to expand on any of the above or add new points.

 

I have my popcorn and beer with me now.

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I am going through with a redress hearing. I collected as many signitures as I could at the club to be co-protester/redress. The problem was that you could not see the flags. Class A started off fine. They committee did not put up the B/C Class flag up for 3 minutes according to them(r/c). This put everyone(most) into a cluster on time. Fleets had the right horns going off at 4 minutes and what would be there Start horn. I will post more tomorrow after I have more time about what I should and shouldn't post until after the hearing.

 

If you did not sign the redress form that I had at the club please send me a PM or email saying that you would like to be included and I will put you on the list.

 

Jibeset

 

jibeset at msn.com

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I am going through with a redress hearing. I collected as many signitures as I could at the club to be co-protester/redress. The problem was that you could not see the flags. Class A started off fine. They committee did not put up the B/C Class flag up for 3 minutes according to them(r/c). This put everyone(most) into a cluster on time. Fleets had the right horns going off at 4 minutes and what would be there Start horn. I will post more tomorrow after I have more time about what I should and shouldn't post until after the hearing.

 

If you did not sign the redress form that I had at the club please send me a PM or email saying that you would like to be included and I will put you on the list.

 

Jibeset

 

jibeset at msn.com

 

Really? Flags were pretty clear when they went up and came down. That is how you start races.

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Where to start?

 

First gun was supposed to be at 9am, not 8:55am

First start was fine

Second start was interupted to allow ferry out of slip, but no postponment flag flown, just resumed sequence. Most of the fleet did not catch the importance of this delay and assumed committee had timing issues and continued starting with the initial timing.

After second start, individual recall flag flown for about a minute and taken down. No other action taken by RC.

Class flags were extremely small and could not be seen from opposite end of line because of small size and the fact they hung down around the pole due to fact RC was on the sheltered deck with no wind to fly flags. So boats were starting at the wrong time.

 

Feel free to expand on any of the above or add new points.

 

I have my popcorn and beer with me now.

Man that was a mess. We started hearing sound signals 5 minutes early but no class flags so we went with the horns and the class starting ahead of us. Didn't have a clue there was a postponement for the ferry. Then we find out half of our class is scored OCS when we finished. That was too bad with what ended up being a fun day for a race.

 

Moe

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Where to start?

 

First gun was supposed to be at 9am, not 8:55am

First start was fine

Second start was interupted to allow ferry out of slip, but no postponment flag flown, just resumed sequence. Most of the fleet did not catch the importance of this delay and assumed committee had timing issues and continued starting with the initial timing.

After second start, individual recall flag flown for about a minute and taken down. No other action taken by RC.

Class flags were extremely small and could not be seen from opposite end of line because of small size and the fact they hung down around the pole due to fact RC was on the sheltered deck with no wind to fly flags. So boats were starting at the wrong time.

 

Feel free to expand on any of the above or add new points.

 

I have my popcorn and beer with me now.

Man that was a mess. We started hearing sound signals 5 minutes early but no class flags so we went with the horns and the class starting ahead of us. Didn't have a clue there was a postponement for the ferry. Then we find out half of our class is scored OCS when we finished. That was too bad with what ended up being a fun day for a race.

 

Moe

Did anyone see an AP pennent to signify a postponment? Unfortunatly I suspect most of my class was OCS. I am in class D. How many other classes were caught up in this?

 

The race announcement does say "The starting signal for one class MAY or MAY NOT be the warning signal for the next start..........Starting info MAY also be broadcast over VHF72..." (the capitalized words were copied exactly).

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What was with that start today? I know all the rules with the flag crap, but from where I was I didn't see any flags.....

 

 

Ummm...... the RC had the flags.

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What was with that start today? I know all the rules with the flag crap, but from where I was I didn't see any flags.....

 

 

Ummm...... the RC had the flags.

 

 

What they had where VERY small and VERY hard to see at the far end of the line.

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Where to start?

 

First gun was supposed to be at 9am, not 8:55am

First start was fine

Second start was interupted to allow ferry out of slip, but no postponment flag flown, just resumed sequence. Most of the fleet did not catch the importance of this delay and assumed committee had timing issues and continued starting with the initial timing.

After second start, individual recall flag flown for about a minute and taken down. No other action taken by RC.

Class flags were extremely small and could not be seen from opposite end of line because of small size and the fact they hung down around the pole due to fact RC was on the sheltered deck with no wind to fly flags. So boats were starting at the wrong time.

 

Feel free to expand on any of the above or add new points.

 

I have my popcorn and beer with me now.

Man that was a mess. We started hearing sound signals 5 minutes early but no class flags so we went with the horns and the class starting ahead of us. Didn't have a clue there was a postponement for the ferry. Then we find out half of our class is scored OCS when we finished. That was too bad with what ended up being a fun day for a race.

 

Moe

Did anyone see an AP pennent to signify a postponment? Unfortunatly I suspect most of my class was OCS. I am in class D. How many other classes were caught up in this?

 

The race announcement does say "The starting signal for one class MAY or MAY NOT be the warning signal for the next start..........Starting info MAY also be broadcast over VHF72..." (the capitalized words were copied exactly).

 

 

Now read the next line. I am sure that did not happen.

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Where to start?

 

First gun was supposed to be at 9am, not 8:55am

First start was fine

Second start was interupted to allow ferry out of slip, but no postponment flag flown, just resumed sequence. Most of the fleet did not catch the importance of this delay and assumed committee had timing issues and continued starting with the initial timing.

After second start, individual recall flag flown for about a minute and taken down. No other action taken by RC.

Class flags were extremely small and could not be seen from opposite end of line because of small size and the fact they hung down around the pole due to fact RC was on the sheltered deck with no wind to fly flags. So boats were starting at the wrong time.

 

Feel free to expand on any of the above or add new points.

 

I have my popcorn and beer with me now.

Man that was a mess. We started hearing sound signals 5 minutes early but no class flags so we went with the horns and the class starting ahead of us. Didn't have a clue there was a postponement for the ferry. Then we find out half of our class is scored OCS when we finished. That was too bad with what ended up being a fun day for a race.

 

Moe

Did anyone see an AP pennent to signify a postponment? Unfortunatly I suspect most of my class was OCS. I am in class D. How many other classes were caught up in this?

 

The race announcement does say "The starting signal for one class MAY or MAY NOT be the warning signal for the next start..........Starting info MAY also be broadcast over VHF72..." (the capitalized words were copied exactly).

 

 

Now read the next line. I am sure that did not happen.

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What was with that start today? I know all the rules with the flag crap, but from where I was I didn't see any flags.....

 

 

Ummm...... the RC had the flags.

 

 

What they had where VERY small and VERY hard to see at the far end of the line.

 

 

They were pretty clear to us and others............

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The PRO said on the VHF a bunch of lemmings, "Lemmings are small rodents, usually found in or near the Arctic, in tundra biomes", huh imagine that a bunch of rodents that get the boat and the crew or fellow lemmings to spend the day with class after class starting in the wrong sequence, how many boats OCS, in how many classes? Don't know but I am sure the master of the lemmings will let us know. I kept saying where is the class flag, why start entire classes as OCS or where entire classes OCS? Don't know, was it a a good practice race to throw out, yeah I guess, maybe I should just be grateful that I was spending the day with other lemmings.

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What happened to the start times listed on the web site sailing instructions? Was proper notification made for those listed times? and then the postponement flag, and the common sense?

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The 0830 start went fine. Yuk. Yuk.

 

After reading all the above, now I understand all the dock talk about only 12 or 14 boat finishing.

 

Hope that's not true. Too beautiful of a day for techno snafs to get in the way.

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What was with that start today? I know all the rules with the flag crap, but from where I was I didn't see any flags.....

 

 

Ummm...... the RC had the flags.

 

 

What they had where VERY small and VERY hard to see at the far end of the line.

 

 

They were pretty clear to us and others............

 

14 of 96 boats started correctly ! You must have been on the deck where they were flying the "flags " or one of the lucking ones who guessed right. Give me an f- in break.

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What was with that start today? I know all the rules with the flag crap, but from where I was I didn't see any flags.....

 

 

Ummm...... the RC had the flags.

 

 

What they had where VERY small and VERY hard to see at the far end of the line.

 

 

They were pretty clear to us and others............

 

14 of 96 boats started correctly ! You must have been on the deck where they were flying the "flags " or one of the lucking ones who guessed right. Give me an f- in break.

 

Nope. Just read the SI's and paid attention.

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What was with that start today? I know all the rules with the flag crap, but from where I was I didn't see any flags.....

 

 

Ummm...... the RC had the flags.

 

What they had where VERY small and VERY hard to see at the far end of the line.

 

 

They were pretty clear to us and others............

 

14 of 96 boats started correctly ! You must have been on the deck where they were flying the "flags " or one of the lucking ones who guessed right. Give me an f- in break.

 

Nope. Just read the SI's and paid attention.

We were paying attention. We could not see any flags from the pin end of the line. Obviously since some people saw them they were there. But when you have a 1/8 rate of correct starting, something got really screwed up. Its bad enough that they are running the starts off the shore, but to run the flags in the shadow of the overhang, to have the sound signals out of sink with the flags (yes I know, the shape is the authoritative signal), when you see a whole fleet go charging off and you don't make any attempt to hail via VHF

 

Hell you don't even bother to hoist a very obvious AP or General Recall, then you are being a really really really silly RC. South Sound Series has enough problems with attendence without this sort of nonsense.

 

 

And for the person who asked if we can expect this as DeRigeur for the series,

De Moines at least starts their signals from the end of a fishing pier, though that too is the lazy "we don't want to send out a boat"

Gig Harbor sets out a start boat - though they sometimes get their signals kerfluffed.

Olympia probably does the best job of getting a start off.

 

The least that TYC could have done was to show the flags from a more visible area - like near the edge of the water.

 

So Gladiator, if the Redress is granted, are you still going to appeal? Cuz if you do and win, the result will likely be a tossing of the whole race. Personally, I'm cool with that but others may not be.

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Hey what's the big deal? They had free stale potato chips and pretzels after the race.....Give me Duwamish head any day! (he said give me head heh,heh) We actually sailed in close looking for flags because the horns were confusing us and we couldn't figure it out. Why not have the flag person out near the water and hold it high so it is obvious, or use a boat (like it says in SI's). If 82 boats got it wrong they done F'ed up period! Toss the race!

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q_D3A0478.jpg

 

q_D3A0811.jpg

 

 

What the fuck is that thing? Thank You.

 

A couple of containerships came thru the course in the afternoon. My guess is that is the wake off the bulbous bow of one of them.

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I would think that if the Race Committee saw an entire class cross the line early that they should have re-called that fleet and started them again. Could this have been done or did they do the right thing by letting us sail 30+ miles before informing us that we were disqualified? :blink: Even with the start, the sailing couldn't have been better; great wind and abnormally warm for December. :)

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General Recall

When at the starting signal the race committee is unable to identify

boats that are on the course side of the starting line or to which rule

30 applies, or there has been an error in the starting procedure, the

race committee may signal a general recall.

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Who is serving who in the context of a race?

 

Are the sailors there so that the RC can demonstrate their methodical application of rules?

Is the RC there to give sailors a venue to compete in a race?

 

Seems very much to me that the RC and their needs are coming first in this circumstance. Yeah, maybe they did do a flag dance to show a start sequence, a hold/delay and an initiation of a new sequence, but it was not done in any way that served the racers in fact it comes off as a test. "Lets just see how difficult we can make the start sequence and see how the fleet does with it" is what I heard the RC saying after this debacle.

 

Good on those that got the sequence right. Congratulations, you passed the test.

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Corinthian Yacht Club Tacoma should really run this race. They have a committee boat which they use, and they run more than two races a year so have some experience and practice.

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Was anybody taking pictures at the start or any video at all?

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Who is serving who in the context of a race?

 

Are the sailors there so that the RC can demonstrate their methodical application of rules?

Is the RC there to give sailors a venue to compete in a race?

 

Seems very much to me that the RC and their needs are coming first in this circumstance. Yeah, maybe they did do a flag dance to show a start sequence, a hold/delay and an initiation of a new sequence, but it was not done in any way that served the racers in fact it comes off as a test. "Lets just see how difficult we can make the start sequence and see how the fleet does with it" is what I heard the RC saying after this debacle.

 

Good on those that got the sequence right. Congratulations, you passed the test.

 

What he said. The Race Committee's job is to communicate to the racers. When they are't doing this they need to stop and get control of the situation. To keep the sequence running and letting class after class start incorrectly and then at the end throw their hands and say I don't know what's wrong with these people. We did our job. That's amazing.

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Who is serving who in the context of a race?

 

Are the sailors there so that the RC can demonstrate their methodical application of rules?

Is the RC there to give sailors a venue to compete in a race?

 

Seems very much to me that the RC and their needs are coming first in this circumstance. Yeah, maybe they did do a flag dance to show a start sequence, a hold/delay and an initiation of a new sequence, but it was not done in any way that served the racers in fact it comes off as a test. "Lets just see how difficult we can make the start sequence and see how the fleet does with it" is what I heard the RC saying after this debacle.

 

Good on those that got the sequence right. Congratulations, you passed the test.

 

What he said. The Race Committee's job is to communicate to the racers. When they are't doing this they need to stop and get control of the situation. To keep the sequence running and letting class after class start incorrectly and then at the end throw their hands and say I don't know what's wrong with these people. We did our job. That's amazing.

 

 

I had multiple conversations with the R/C and to there credit I thought they where doing a great job of making sure that they got all the times correct because they knew that a redress or protest would happen. I never saw them being condescending or uncooperative at all. We all know now what happened now it is going to be up to a hearing to decide what they do about it. I am emailing the request for redress later today. After the hearing I will write out all of the details so everyone is clear on what happened in the end. Until after the hearing I am limiting myself to what I write about this. SI's say that they will try to hold the following Thursday. Hopefully we will know something then.

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Who is serving who in the context of a race?

 

Are the sailors there so that the RC can demonstrate their methodical application of rules?

Is the RC there to give sailors a venue to compete in a race?

 

Seems very much to me that the RC and their needs are coming first in this circumstance. Yeah, maybe they did do a flag dance to show a start sequence, a hold/delay and an initiation of a new sequence, but it was not done in any way that served the racers in fact it comes off as a test. "Lets just see how difficult we can make the start sequence and see how the fleet does with it" is what I heard the RC saying after this debacle.

 

Good on those that got the sequence right. Congratulations, you passed the test.

 

What he said. The Race Committee's job is to communicate to the racers. When they are't doing this they need to stop and get control of the situation. To keep the sequence running and letting class after class start incorrectly and then at the end throw their hands and say I don't know what's wrong with these people. We did our job. That's amazing.

 

What they said. The purpose of the entire body of the racing rules is to provide fair racing for the boats. This means the competitors and the committees. Now while Teamgladiator and Rollencoaster are standing up and saying that the RC was techincally correct in how they did things, they are ignoring the fact that this RC caused confusion for the racers. When it was becoming apparent that things were going wrong, they could have postponed the starts and started all over again. That would have been the fair and correct thing to do. What they allowed to happen was just wrong, it was a train wreck that they created and sat back to watch happen. And like Green Card said, the RC was heard to say that they "did nothing wrong, it was the sailors who screwed up" proves that TYC has no grasp of what they were supposed to be doing. As I said earlier, they began the sequence five minutes early. The flags they used were too small for the length of the line, and they did not display them prominently. Having the flag draped around the pole in the shadows of the deck made them almost useless. If you were not in a position to see the flag go up, then you had to guess what flag it was. It is impractical and dangerous to assume that 96 boats will be in the starting area to see the small flag (if you are in the first start, then you can be there, but if you are a later start you will be run down and screamed at by the boats who belong in the starting area).

 

So TYC fucked up. They did not provide a fair start for the fleet. And the RC didn't care, they just let the wreck happen and then walked away. The bad news is that they get to keep the money that everyone paid for a good race that didn't happen. Many people were saying this was going to be the last time they would do this race. That is too bad because it can be a good race. Maybe just the wrong people holding it.

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What they allowed to happen was just wrong, it was a train wreck that they created and sat back to watch happen. And like Green Card said, the RC was heard to say that they "did nothing wrong, it was the sailors who screwed up" proves that TYC has no grasp of what they were supposed to be doing.

 

While most of the points here are valid, I will challenge this point directly. I stood out on the deck and watched the RC record the finish times of every boat (after ours).

 

At no point did they blame the competitors. These people were under seige from some of the racers and handled it with dignity and a sense of understanding. The PRO himself (someone I did not know previously) agreed with the racers in most cases and acknowledged that the visibility of the flags were an issue that likely had merit.

 

Never did the people on the RC blame the sailors.

 

A Redress Hearing will ensue and hopefully a decision that it fair to all is rendered.

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Asking because I really would like to hear what folks think:

 

WHat would be the "fair" result of the redress hearing?

 

Throw out the race?

Score veryone based on their start and finish times, using the time the crossed the line?

DSQ for all OCS and score the folks who were able to figure it out?

 

Full disclousure:

We were OCS, confused, had a GREAT time, did the delivery back to Seattle right after the race with mid 20's for breeze and 8-11 knots boat speed with main only, motorsailing (3 hours dock to dock, TYC to Shilshole), and think the race ought to be tossed and a reduced entry fee offered to those who come back next year (in hopes that folks do come back!).

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Tossing the race is probably the fair thing to do. But let the cruising class results stand as a race in and of itself. Our start went fine, although we were a bit late to the line (our fault for not paying attention). Of course I am a bit biased - we took the gun in the non-flying sails division.

 

What a great day for a race.

 

Willie

Unzipped Agian

Catalina 42

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Tossing the race is probably the fair thing to do. But let the cruising class results stand as a race in and of itself. Our start went fine, although we were a bit late to the line (our fault for not paying attention). Of course I am a bit biased - we took the gun in the non-flying sails division.

 

What a great day for a race.

 

Willie

Unzipped Agian

Catalina 42

 

 

The cruising class is the only one that went off ok. They might have started the sequence 5 minutes early but I think everyone got it that was out there.

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Tossing the race is probably the fair thing to do. But let the cruising class results stand as a race in and of itself. Our start went fine, although we were a bit late to the line (our fault for not paying attention). Of course I am a bit biased - we took the gun in the non-flying sails division.

 

What a great day for a race.

 

Willie

Unzipped Agian

Catalina 42

 

 

Great job Willie!

 

One question though, why was the barbeque covered up? Would have been a better story, got the gun and had ribeyes for lunch.

 

Cheers

 

KS

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[quo

 

 

I had multiple conversations with the R/C and to there credit I thought they where doing a great job of making sure that they got all the times correct because they knew that a redress or protest would happen. I never saw them being condescending or uncooperative at all. We all know now what happened now it is going to be up to a hearing to decide what they do about it. I am emailing the request for redress later today. After the hearing I will write out all of the details so everyone is clear on what happened in the end. Until after the hearing I am limiting myself to what I write about this. SI's say that they will try to hold the following Thursday. Hopefully we will know something then.

 

I think we really need to see preliminary results before we file for redress. We don't really know how things stand until we see results. Some of you may have already see something if you were in the club house. We didn't go in.

 

Moe

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SSS website has been updated. Meaning the online entry and SI links have been removed.

 

The results Label is still there with no link!

 

KS

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I had multiple conversations with the R/C and to there credit I thought they where doing a great job of making sure that they got all the times correct because they knew that a redress or protest would happen. I never saw them being condescending or uncooperative at all. We all know now what happened now it is going to be up to a hearing to decide what they do about it. I am emailing the request for redress later today. After the hearing I will write out all of the details so everyone is clear on what happened in the end. Until after the hearing I am limiting myself to what I write about this. SI's say that they will try to hold the following Thursday. Hopefully we will know something then.

 

I think we really need to see preliminary results before we file for redress. We don't really know how things stand until we see results. Some of you may have already see something if you were in the club house. We didn't go in.

 

Moe

 

 

I was told by the R/C that only 14 boats from B class down had started correctly.

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