Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Doug Lord

Hydroptere Pitchpoles

Recommended Posts

I got nothing, website states "Decreasing wind

Sunday 21st December, the wind is decreasing since this morning, gusts are still around 40 knots. Sailing will be possible when the gusts won't be over 35 knots."

 

Can't find any mention other than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy Shit, 61 knots then a pitch pole...! thankfully no-one hurt badly. There's a pic on the Hydroptere web site, it did happen.

 

Pointe à 61 noeuds182v.jpgligne_ss_titre_actu.gifDimanche 21 décembre

 

l'Hydroptère a atteint la vitesse spectaculaire de 61 noeuds en pointe ce matin lors de son premier run.

 

Les conditions de vent étaient très musclées, 35-38 noeuds de vent établi et des rafales à plus de 45. Le plan d'eau n'était pas aussi plat que les jours prédédents, rendant la navigation difficile et dangereuse. La rafale, qui a permis d'atteindre cette vitesse extraordinaire, a malheureusement entaîné le chavirage de l'Hydroptère.

 

"Le coup de vent a été très violent, l'Hydroptère était en pleine accéléraltion, à plus de 61 noeuds, lorsqu'il a planté puis chaviré", raconte brièvement Alain Thébault alors qu'il organise le remorquage du bateau avec ses équipiers. Tous s'en sortent avec des blessures légères.

 

Le trimaran va être remorqué jusqu'à Fos sur Mer, dés que les conditions le permettront

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the Hydroptère has reached a speed of 61 knots spectacular peak this morning during his first run.

 

Wind conditions were very tough, 35-38 knots of wind gusts and established more than 45. The water was not as flat as day prédédent, making navigation difficult and dangerous. The burst, which led to this extraordinary speed, unfortunately entaîné the capsizing of the Hydroptère.

 

"The gale was very violent, the Hydroptère was full accéléraltion to more than 61 knots when it crashed and then capsized," says Alain Thébault briefly while organizing towing the boat with his teammates. All are doing with minor injuries.

 

The trimaran will be towed to Fos on Wednesday, as soon as conditions permit182.jpg

 

Holy fucking shit! Where is the video????

 

Merry Xmas to those crazy fucking Frenchman. Gotta love it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeeze's OB , thanxs but how about the size ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Holy Shit, 61 knots then a pitch pole...! thankfully no-one hurt badly. There's a pic on the Hydroptere web site, it did happen.

 

Pointe à 61 noeuds182v.jpgligne_ss_titre_actu.gifDimanche 21 décembre

 

l'Hydroptère a atteint la vitesse spectaculaire de 61 noeuds en pointe ce matin lors de son premier run.

 

Les conditions de vent étaient très musclées, 35-38 noeuds de vent établi et des rafales à plus de 45. Le plan d'eau n'était pas aussi plat que les jours prédédents, rendant la navigation difficile et dangereuse. La rafale, qui a permis d'atteindre cette vitesse extraordinaire, a malheureusement entaîné le chavirage de l'Hydroptère.

 

"Le coup de vent a été très violent, l'Hydroptère était en pleine accéléraltion, à plus de 61 noeuds, lorsqu'il a planté puis chaviré", raconte brièvement Alain Thébault alors qu'il organise le remorquage du bateau avec ses équipiers. Tous s'en sortent avec des blessures légères.

 

Le trimaran va être remorqué jusqu'à Fos sur Mer, dés que les conditions le permettront

 

Speak English Dammit :lol:

 

How the FUCK do you go 61 knots in boat that weighs several tons, pitchpole and NOT hurt somebody bad. Gotta love those crazy frenchmen. They are either good or lucky, probably both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How the FUCK do you go 61 knots in boat that weighs several tons, pitchpole and NOT hurt somebody bad. Gotta love those crazy frenchmen. They are either good or lucky, probably both.

Perhaps it is because they are designing a real boat with the intent of sailing in nearly any condition for a RTW record attempt?

 

As opposed to a boat that has a micro thin window of viability on one tack only or someone flinging themselves along in the lee of a windy shoreline using a hubcap and a kite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps it is because they are designing a real boat with the intent of sailing in nearly any condition for a RTW record attempt?

 

As opposed to a boat that has a micro thin window of viability on one tack only or someone flinging themselves along in the lee of a windy shoreline using a hubcap and a kite.

 

ROFL....too true

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes we need the crash vid. Now I'm seeing the appeal of Nascar.

 

 

No shit. This oughta go up on the Speed Channel as well.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As opposed to a boat that has a micro thin window of viability on one tack only or someone flinging themselves along in the lee of a windy shoreline using a hubcap and a kite.

 

 

well, not everyone can afford (or wants) a huge multi-million dollar program, with huge corporate sponsors...

 

some people have to work at regular jobs, and do speed sailing on whatever money they have left over after paying their rent, and mostly don't much given to them other than a free kite, or board.

 

No love for the little guy...?

 

Hey I think Hydroptere is amazing - one of the most exciting things going on in sailing today.

 

But it's big, complex, and expensive.

 

The simplicity of the windsurfers and kiteboards makes them, in my mind, a rather elegant approach to going fast.

 

You can buy everything you need to go 50kts for a few thousand dollars, fit it all in the back of your car, and you don't have to beg money from anyone.

 

I pretty regularly go faster on my windsurfers than just about any boat that anyone here on this forum is likely to own. It's speed sailing for the common man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice catch DL.

 

I am guessing that they slowed down considerably before they actually hit the water.

 

It would be great to see that on video.

 

Was there ever video released for the SailRocket crash?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailrocket vid-crash about 1/3rd in:

-------------------

"Erwan" on boatdesign deserves the credit for breaking the Hydroptere story.... Go Hydroptere!

The boat set a new peak speed record but did she get the 500 meter record?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

getting tipsy means something else to these guys ---

 

base_image2_620.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the shot of the craft underway looks faster than shit- looks like bigtime yachting may be changing in the next few decades to being foil borne some of the time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its just fantastic-and 61 knots is 70.15 mph-remember that out on the road!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VIDS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!!!!!

 

Now seriously, How the heck nobody got seriously injured on a pitchpole at 61 knots?

 

As would say Obélix, Ils sont fous ces Français!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crew must have gone from "Mon Dieu" to "Merde" in a micro-second.

 

An amazing boat and crew, but, like much else in life, going fast may be the goal but avoiding sudden stops is the winning strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hydroptere homepage has been updated with a pic of the turtled tri, but no video? Amazing no serious injuries; they must wear crash helmets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, what happened to the "6 knots ass monkey" post ???

 

That cracked me up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Holy Shit, 61 knots then a pitch pole...! thankfully no-one hurt badly. There's a pic on the Hydroptere web site, it did happen.

 

Pointe à 61 noeuds182v.jpgligne_ss_titre_actu.gifDimanche 21 décembre

 

l'Hydroptère a atteint la vitesse spectaculaire de 61 noeuds en pointe ce matin lors de son premier run.

 

Les conditions de vent étaient très musclées, 35-38 noeuds de vent établi et des rafales à plus de 45. Le plan d'eau n'était pas aussi plat que les jours prédédents, rendant la navigation difficile et dangereuse. La rafale, qui a permis d'atteindre cette vitesse extraordinaire, a malheureusement entaîné le chavirage de l'Hydroptère.

 

"Le coup de vent a été très violent, l'Hydroptère était en pleine accéléraltion, à plus de 61 noeuds, lorsqu'il a planté puis chaviré", raconte brièvement Alain Thébault alors qu'il organise le remorquage du bateau avec ses équipiers. Tous s'en sortent avec des blessures légères.

 

Le trimaran va être remorqué jusqu'à Fos sur Mer, dés que les conditions le permettront

 

Speak English Dammit :lol:

 

 

 

The hydrofoil attained spectacular speed of 61 knots in not at all this morning at the time of his first run.

 

The wind conditions were very muscular, 35-38 knots of established wind and flurries to more than 45. The water plan was not as flat as the days prédédents, returning difficult and dangerous navigation. The flurry, that allowed attaining this extraordinary speed, has unfortunately entaîné the chavirage of the Hydrofoil.

 

"The wind blow was very violent, the Hydrofoil was in the middle of the accéléraltion, to more than 61 knots, when it planted then overwhelmed", relates briefly Alain Thébault while it organizes the boat remorquage with its team members. All themselves go out some with light injuries.

 

The trimaran will be hauled to Fos on Sea, dice that the conditions will allow it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

base_image2_620.jpg

 

 

Looks like the mast survived up to this point

 

normal_hydroptere-2.jpg

But not here... :(

or is that the boom?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Hydroptere homepage has been updated with a pic of the turtled tri, but no video? Amazing no serious injuries; they must wear crash helmets?

 

The only thing that I can think of that would account for the lack

of serious injuries is that it must have sort of pancaked and came

to a stop over a couple of hundred feet. If it had augered in,

I can't imagine it remaining in one piece, or posing for the

picture of it standing on it's nose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How the FUCK do you go 61 knots in boat that weighs several tons, pitchpole and NOT hurt somebody bad. Gotta love those crazy frenchmen. They are either good or lucky, probably both.

Perhaps it is because they are designing a real boat with the intent of sailing in nearly any condition for a RTW record attempt?

 

As opposed to a boat that has a micro thin window of viability on one tack only or someone flinging themselves along in the lee of a windy shoreline using a hubcap and a kite.

 

 

BRAVO!!! A real boat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Hydroptere homepage has been updated with a pic of the turtled tri, but no video? Amazing no serious injuries; they must wear crash helmets?

 

The only thing that I can think of that would account for the lack

of serious injuries is that it must have sort of pancaked and came

to a stop over a couple of hundred feet. If it had augered in,

I can't imagine it remaining in one piece, or posing for the

picture of it standing on it's nose.

 

 

 

At that speed, it's hard to imagine it not augering in a bit, and damaging the hulls?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of the upside down pix on the Hydroptere site show either major damage to a wing(crossarm) or pieces of the mast sticking thru.Looks fairly bad.

pix hydrop site/martin-raget:

post-30-1229898356_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I didn't mean no damage, just that one would have thought a lot more visible damage. Thanks for the pic, I tried to copy and paste one from hydriptere site with no success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A couple of the upside down pix on the Hydroptere site show either major damage to a wing(crossarm) or pieces of the mast sticking thru.Looks fairly bad.

pix hydrop site/martin-raget:

 

 

does not look like structure of the boat mast is gone i say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look on the STB side you can see the boom sticking out pointing to the foil and if you look under the name it looks like a broken mast but i could be wrong.I hope they can fix the problem they see them selfs in and get the record.PS is there any vid of the crash?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other day I was behind a guy whose license plate # was 40 KSB. I had to laugh. It was an old beater Ford Explorer.

 

But an actual 60 knot shit box is fucking amazing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the latest video from l’Hydroptère website on 21 Decembre showing the aftermath with some explanation from Alain Thébault.

They're probably busy negotiating the selling price of the video to the French media.

I'm sure the video is "très extraordinaire".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High speed vid up here: http://www.hydroptere.com/galerie_videos_h...p?id=624#centre

 

no crash though......just the aftermath. Up at high speed, the sail drive just hangs out the bottom...pretty weird looking. :)

 

The Hydroptere homepage has been updated with a pic of the turtled tri, but no video? Amazing no serious injuries; they must wear crash helmets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the latest video from l’Hydroptère website on 21 Decembre showing the aftermath with some explanation from Alain Thébault.

They're probably busy negotiating the selling price of the video to the French media.

I'm sure the video is "très extraordinaire".

 

 

Jeebus Christ, but that boat rips.

 

Anybody around here speak french?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty impressive they hit 61 knots, the pitch pole would have been a pretty spectacular sight.

 

Hope they get back on the water sooner rather than later, Maquarie Inovation took the class c record back from them this weekend!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy that video is impressive but why are they holding the "money shot"? Damn!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extremely impressive to be sure, whatever the true speed, but lets just take those claims of 55 and 60 knots with a large pinch of salt until there is some credible confirmation. A GPS Doppler log print out would be good for a start!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the latest video from l’Hydroptère website on 21 Decembre showing the aftermath with some explanation from Alain Thébault.

They're probably busy negotiating the selling price of the video to the French media.

I'm sure the video is "très extraordinaire".

 

 

Jeebus Christ, but that boat rips.

 

Anybody around here speak french?

 

What struck me was the wierd motion of the boat, kind of a periodic irregular jink to leeward and downwards...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the latest video from l’Hydroptère website on 21 Decembre showing the aftermath with some explanation from Alain Thébault.

They're probably busy negotiating the selling price of the video to the French media.

I'm sure the video is "très extraordinaire".

 

 

Jeebus Christ, but that boat rips.

 

Anybody around here speak french?

The skipper is talking about hitting 100 km/hr before they flipped. He looks pretty happy for a guy who's been swimming in the Med in December. Note crash helmet -- a good idea. They've been hitting in the mid 40's and were out looking for more wind today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

If you look carefully at the video, you'll see that only the tips of the foils are in the water. These guys likely have at least three GPS units on board relaying info to shore base at the same time. That would enable them to determine height above the water and therefore heel angle as windspeed and apparent wind angles change. These guys are not messing around. They've had crashes before and keep coming back with better equipment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the latest video from l’Hydroptère website on 21 Decembre showing the aftermath with some explanation from Alain Thébault.

They're probably busy negotiating the selling price of the video to the French media.

I'm sure the video is "très extraordinaire".

 

 

Jeebus Christ, but that boat rips.

 

Anybody around here speak french?

The skipper is talking about hitting 100 km/hr before they flipped. He looks pretty happy for a guy who's been swimming in the Med in December. Note crash helmet -- a good idea. They've been hitting in the mid 40's and were out looking for more wind today.

 

 

He didn't describe how the flip went down? Oh well, I'm sure they will

get around to that eventually. I suppose we gotta give the guy a chance to change

his shorts first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
/raises hand

 

I want a ride!

Not me! But I would like to see them break the record with this thing, because it bears a remarkable resemblance to a sailboat unlike many of the other speed record chasers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

 

How many boats do you know of that will do 61 knots? Shit, how many boats do you know of that will do 45 knots? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

If you look carefully at the video, you'll see that only the tips of the foils are in the water. These guys likely have at least three GPS units on board relaying info to shore base at the same time. That would enable them to determine height above the water and therefore heel angle as windspeed and apparent wind angles change. These guys are not messing around. They've had crashes before and keep coming back with better equipment.

 

Where do you get 3 GPS from? They probably only have one Trimble (quite expensive) for the official time keeping and that is useless for peak speeds. If they had even a lowly consumer GPS on board with the ability to save the SOG (Doppler derived speed) that would give credability to their words. If so, let's see it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

 

How many boats do you know of that will do 61 knots? Shit, how many boats do you know of that will do 45 knots? ;)

 

thats not only fast for a sail boat, its just plain fast.

 

personally, regardless of what ISAF and the windsurfers say... the first sailboat to break the records will be Hydroptere.

 

i wanna see um beef up the boat a bit and race the thing.... ohhhh perhaps a race with BMWO tri...

 

but first they need to rebuild the boat, anyone know what kind of modifications, if any will result from this crash?

since no one got hurt its not a tragedy, its a buying opportunity.

 

~Play~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW, 61 Knot's... I might have to like Frenchmen from now on.. :D

 

Did they maintain 61 knots or just touch it? Was the record officially broken by maintaining the 61 knot speed over a measured mile?

 

Either way it's a fantastic achivement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

 

 

B: big puff hit and because of the rapid bear away the leeward foil actually looses a dramatic amount of lift since it is on the inside of the turn versus the outside foil(circular flow) and since that foil is carrying most of the boat's weight when it looses lift game over.

 

C: Combination of the two.

 

 

I am guessing A though from watching the video footage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WOW, 61 Knot's... I might have to like Frenchmen from now on.. :D

 

Did they maintain 61 knots or just touch it? Was the record officially broken by maintaining the 61 knot speed over a measured mile?

 

Either way it's a fantastic achievement.

 

that was there instantaneous speed at the time of the crash. the record is for an average speed of 50 knts over a set distance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

 

How many boats do you know of that will do 61 knots? Shit, how many boats do you know of that will do 45 knots? ;)

 

 

Not many but I ran with the drag boat and speed skiing crowd in my previous life. Thanks for making my point.

ss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

 

Hydroptere has already peaked above 50 knots on a few occasions already (never long enough to get the 500 metre record over 50 though, but you pretty much can't record a 47 knot official run as Hydoptere already has without peaking over 50).

61 knots is certainly well within the realms of possibility especially when you consider they were obviously pushing it.

As others have mentioned they are measuring everything constantly on the boat so they probably have logged evidence to back up the claim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

 

 

B: big puff hit and because of the rapid bear away the leeward foil actually looses a dramatic amount of lift since it is on the inside of the turn versus the outside foil(circular flow) and since that foil is carrying most of the boat's weight when it looses lift game over.

 

C: Combination of the two.

 

 

I am guessing A though from watching the video footage.

 

I second you on choice 'A'... However, I wouldn't call it a stall so much as a cavitation event that allowed the sailplan to pull the rudder out of the water... I'm guessing that's what you meant though (heard a rumor somewhere that you know a little bit about foilers)... Can't wait to see the vid!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am guessing A though from watching the video footage.

 

Some good conclusions. However, there's something, well, wrong with the vid; the speed bits are against a cloudy background (high stuff as well as low), in the post-capsize bits the skies are clear and blue. Different runs? Different days? Too little data to say. Also too little data--yet--to conclude they touched 61 kts. Previous highest touch by this boat (neither sustained) was 52, highest before that was a whole string of ~50. To hit 61 would require several multiples of power from the rig; drag at these speeds goes up exponentially--it's a real vertical wall--that's why they were stuck on 52 kts before. (remember, there's no wave action here; all the speed is due to sail power--are you, Gentle Reader, really confident that this boat's rig, this one time, was capable of, let alone successful in, delivering 3-4 times as much power to the hull platform than it *ever* did before?

 

I'm also a little peeved with translated media accounts remarking on "cetification by WSSRC" and "new record." The boat didn't set any record, and there's nothing for the WSSRC to "certify." (Actually, the term is "ratify", but that's just the marketing department talking. :-)

 

Like others here, I'm waiting for the recorded confirmation. Regardless of the actual speed reached, or what fiddles are shown in vids, this boat is damn fast. Hats off to all involved.

 

No Rumours

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...salute to those guys...I've seen this boat about 15 years ago in the South of France(Antibes?).Now much improved and only better.I just hope that they will be back on it soon...for sure improved more and only faster!INCREDIBLE!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
all the speed is due to sail power--are you, Gentle Reader, really confident that this boat's rig, this one time, was capable of, let alone successful in, delivering 3-4 times as much power to the hull platform than it *ever* did before?

My understanding is that their previous runs have all been in mid 20 windspeeds, so in 35-38 knots of breeze it is well possible that the rig will be deliverig 3 x the power - lift and drag are proportional to the square of the wind speed.

 

Interesting in the video to look at the direction the waves are travelling vs the boat - assuming the waves are travelling more or less the wind direction they're on a very broad reach, sails in pretty tight due to the high boatspeed cranking AWA forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
all the speed is due to sail power--are you, Gentle Reader, really confident that this boat's rig, this one time, was capable of, let alone successful in, delivering 3-4 times as much power to the hull platform than it *ever* did before?

My understanding is that their previous runs have all been in mid 20 windspeeds, so in 35-38 knots of breeze it is well possible that the rig will be deliverig 3 x the power - lift and drag are proportional to the square of the wind speed.

 

Interesting in the video to look at the direction the waves are travelling vs the boat - assuming the waves are travelling more or less the wind direction they're on a very broad reach, sails in pretty tight due to the high boatspeed cranking AWA forward.

 

In addition, the wetted surface goes down with increased speed, and the apparent wind does not increase a whole lot as they sail deeper with increased speed.

 

In all previous run vids I have seen in heavy wind, they have been double or triple reefed. In the pre-turtle photo, they do not appear to be reefed nearly as much, if at all, despite the reported wind conditions.

 

Here is an audio interview with Alain Thebault, with audio from a ride

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What struck me was the wierd motion of the boat, kind of a periodic irregular jink to leeward and downwards...

 

Not so much downwards, but upwards. As the speed increases, the boat lifts higher in he water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

72 posts and no one has said, ‘what’s it rate’, ‘that’ll leave a mark’ or ‘that’ll buff out’. I guess we’ve found something that SA is genuinely impressed with.

 

So the question, are those reef points in the shots? If so none of them are in use, so how much wind are they planning to take it out in reefed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
72 posts and no one has said, ‘what’s it rate’, ‘that’ll leave a mark’ or ‘that’ll buff out’. I guess we’ve found something that SA is genuinely impressed with.

 

So the question, are those reef points in the shots? If so none of them are in use, so how much wind are they planning to take it out in reefed?

 

 

I have to agree with you, we as a community respect and are impressed with this machine and i think it would be hard to find someone who isn't.

 

the boat recently got a new rig and since then most of the pics ive seen they are not reefing nearly as often as they did with the original rig. is it possible they made this rig with a sole purpose of a record and thus made it able to fly more sail in higher winds than before?

 

 

Old Rig

 

New Rig

 

~Play~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
72 posts and no one has said, ‘what’s it rate’, ‘that’ll leave a mark’ or ‘that’ll buff out’. I guess we’ve found something that SA is genuinely impressed with.

 

So the question, are those reef points in the shots? If so none of them are in use, so how much wind are they planning to take it out in reefed?

 

 

I have to agree with you, we as a community respect and are impressed with this machine and i think it would be hard to find someone who isn't.

 

the boat recently got a new rig and since then most of the pics ive seen they are not reefing nearly as often as they did with the original rig. is it possible they made this rig with a sole purpose of a record and thus made it able to fly more sail in higher winds than before?

 

 

Old Rig

 

New Rig

 

~Play~

 

 

New rig is shorter lowering the CoE with a full hoist main.

 

reducing the windage of having a bare mast when reefed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By the way: aren't these guys from Switzerland?

 

;)

 

The sailing team is mainly french (Alain et al), the developpment team is mainly swiss (EPFL).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By the way: aren't these guys from Switzerland?

 

;)

 

The sailing team is mainly french (Alain et al), the developpment team is mainly swiss (EPFL).

 

 

Anyway: chapeau!

 

Something to tell your grandchildren about: when I was young, they started to get the hang of foil-sailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

What would cause it to stall? I assume you mean in the sense of flow separation, meaning an angle of attack that was too large. Does anyone know if it is a fixed foil, or if the pilot can control it?

 

What if the rudder foil came out of the water between waves? I think it would be over quickly if that happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to my ignorant untrained eye, it always looks like there is too much boat in front of the foils, resulting in the rudder foil having to do quite a lot to keep her level.

a loss of grip with the rudder foil, even momentary, is going to smart a bit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was driving down the freeway last night at 70mph. Gotta say, I really felt no need to drive off the road into a nearby lake, with or without a helmet. F’me I don’t know how anyone didn’t get hurt. Go the Hydro…

 

 

When they start building 18’ versions of this thing, I’ll be the first in line to buy one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm calling BS on 61 kts. maybe 61 kilometers. All the boats I know off that'll do those kind of speeds only have the tips of the props in the water. From the looks of those foils there's way to much wetted surface.

ss

I'm quite confident that the Hydroptere program knows exactly how fast their boat is going.

They are partners with the Alinghi software program writers who are developing software & devices to measure stress load and telemetry.

 

Here are some of the engineers involved with the Hydroptere project:

Jean Abribat, a design engineer for the Mirage F1 fighter jet, responsible for the development of facilities for measurements of acquisitions on military aircraft for the French Air Force.

Alain de Bergh, designer for the Paul Richard trimiran for Eric Tabarly, structrual analysist for the Mirage 2000 fighter jet and structrual analysist with Dassault Aviation.

Michael Fontayne, Carbon analysist for the Aribus 380.

Pascal Meslem, a stuctural analysist for Assytem France that also provides engineering consultation for Airbus.

Georges Navas, composit production engineer for wing sections for Airbus and Aerospatiale.

Phillipe Perrier, Technical Directror for Dassault Aviation who is a hydronamisist involved with the stability features of the Hydroptere.

Mauritius Prat, head designer of the Concord and design partner for Airbus.

Andre Sournat, designer for Dassault Aviation and component design engineer for Eric Tabarly's trimiran Paul Richard, who's the pit bull for the Hydroptere deisng team.

Robin Amacher, Naval Architect from the Alinghi programme.

Jean-Mathieu Bourgeon, fluid dymanasyst and head Hydroptere project R&D.

Damien Colegrave, materials engineer responsible for the load measurments systems on board Hydroptere.

Stephen Dyan, Fluid Dynamasyst for Hydrofoil Suisse SA

Thomas Khyne, Naval Architecture Masters of Science degree 2007 Southhampton University, who is the guy who adjusts the foils while sailing.

Davy Moyon, Fluid dynamisist from the Alinghi program (now back with Alinghi).

Daniel Schmaeh, Composit materials engineer,

Pierre Sissler, Mechanical Engineeer, CAD designer.

Jacques Vincent, Navigator, 8 times 'Round the World.

 

I have a feeling that there are sufficient electronics on board to accuratly measure speed on board Hydroptere.

 

Short Stick,

Who's on board your boat to make sure the electronics are functioning correctly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

Is this a hard fact or your assumption that rudderfoil is normally pulling down on hydroptere ?

Like it is on most airplanes (fighter jets with computer controlled cunards being the most obvious exception).

It would make a lot of sense stability wise as long as it stays immersed, but it would cause more load on mainfoils to support not only weight but also down pull from rudderfoil causing extra drag.

And then risk of it coming off the water causing dangerous pitchpole behaviour.

 

Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

Is this a hard fact or your assumption that rudderfoil is normally pulling down on hydroptere ?

Like it is on most airplanes (fighter jets with computer controlled cunards being the most obvious exception).

It would make a lot of sense stability wise as long as it stays immersed, but it would cause more load on mainfoils to support not only weight but also down pull from rudderfoil causing extra drag.

And then risk of it coming off the water causing dangerous pitchpole behaviour.

 

Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

 

 

I think that in a stable condition the rear foil would be in a neutral-downward weighted condition (ie supporting some of the weight of the craft), but in the dynamic condition of a large gust, the pitching moment would require a conterbalancing force from this foil.

 

Either way this is a very important contol surface, yet look at the size of it. Its tiny. I guess at ~40knots, it doesnt need to be vey big but still surprisingly small. I bet the next one will be bigger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

Is this a hard fact or your assumption that rudderfoil is normally pulling down on hydroptere ?

Like it is on most airplanes (fighter jets with computer controlled cunards being the most obvious exception).

It would make a lot of sense stability wise as long as it stays immersed, but it would cause more load on mainfoils to support not only weight but also down pull from rudderfoil causing extra drag.

And then risk of it coming off the water causing dangerous pitchpole behaviour.

 

Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

 

 

Probably assumption, but the guy builds and sails foiling Moths, so knows what he's talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

 

The word they used, "chaviré", means "capsized"...for pitchpole, I think you'd say "culbuté".

 

Usage might be different over there (I'm french-canadian), but I've been thinking this thread's probably mis-named.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

 

The word they used, "chaviré", means "capsized"...for pitchpole, I think you'd say "culbuté".

 

Usage might be different over there (I'm french-canadian), but I've been thinking this thread's probably mis-named.

 

 

They did pitchpole ! see below.

 

They say "chaviré" in the PR and your translation is correct but I guess the PR officer is not a sailor :)

post-6361-1229968685_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My guess is one of two things happened. either

 

A: the rudder horrizontal stalled allowing the bow to come down really fast and pitch pole. This is a tractor(Julian B term) config like a normal airplane. And the Rudder is actually pulling down realative to the front foils to counteract the pitching moment.

Is this a hard fact or your assumption that rudderfoil is normally pulling down on hydroptere ?

Like it is on most airplanes (fighter jets with computer controlled cunards being the most obvious exception).

It would make a lot of sense stability wise as long as it stays immersed, but it would cause more load on mainfoils to support not only weight but also down pull from rudderfoil causing extra drag.

And then risk of it coming off the water causing dangerous pitchpole behaviour.

 

Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

 

 

I think that in a stable condition the rear foil would be in a neutral-downward weighted condition (ie supporting some of the weight of the craft), but in the dynamic condition of a large gust, the pitching moment would require a conterbalancing force from this foil.

 

Either way this is a very important contol surface, yet look at the size of it. Its tiny. I guess at ~40knots, it doesnt need to be vey big but still surprisingly small. I bet the next one will be bigger.

 

I agree and think you are on the right track too. On boeings and airbuses the surface area of the aft foil is about %28 of the front foil. Part of the large size is due to safety reasons, but there is no way that even with the boat flying high out of the water the aft surface is more that 10% of the front foils. They probably push this ratio fairly small in order to reduce drag.

 

 

So correct me if I am wrong but when a foil gets overloaded and "lets go" dont you think that it is the same thing as stall.? Trying to get too much lift at too high an angle of attack = stall ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are there any evidence it actually pitchpoled instead of flipping diagonally or sideways ?

 

They did pitchpole ! see below.

 

They say "chaviré" in the PR and your translation is correct but I guess the PR officer is not a sailor :)

It is possible to end like that after cart wheeling when initially flipping sideways, so that's not the evidence I was looking for. Need either video of the event or statements from someone involved from the crew, not sure if PR person is enough, you just never know for sure if they are correct or not.

I would just expect a pitchpole to be very violent one with large foils being capable of creating hundreds of Gs when fully immersed at 60kts or even 40kts. Think about how little area is needed to support the weight of the boat as well as providing lateral forces compared to the total area of the foil. Yet, no major structural damage visible on structures connected the foils on each other (beams & mainhull) and no serious injures for anyone involved.

I would have to think cart wheeling to be much less violent event than pitchpooling leading to instant stopping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is the latest video from l'Hydroptère website on 21 Decembre showing the aftermath with some explanation from Alain Thébault.

They're probably busy negotiating the selling price of the video to the French media.

I'm sure the video is "très extraordinaire".

 

 

Jeebus Christ, but that boat rips.

 

Anybody around here speak french?

 

What struck me was the wierd motion of the boat, kind of a periodic irregular jink to leeward and downwards...

 

With optimal sail trim, I'm guessing that steering motion may be caused by computerized helm assist, probably used to keep the boat 'in the groove'. It would be scarcely imagineable that the helmsman is in total charge of steering at those sensational speeds-one tiny mistake and 'game over'.

 

I'd guess also that at those speeds foil lift area in the water is virtually 'at the limit of the lifting surface', and the 'bobbing up and down' a result of foil lift area literally leaving, lift decreasing, then foil re-entering, and greater lifting resuming, when dipping deeper into the water.

 

I also think that probably one of the great hazards (of boats like this) at these sensational speeds comes when decelerating and dipping the windward ama and main hull back into the water, maybe sometimes a little too quickly for anyone to predict the motion. The sudden drag of the water hitting the amas might be cause for a real regular 'anal pucker'. I'd almost bet, based upon the nose down look, and the intact nature of the craft shown in that pic, that she went over during a slowing, or tactical course change/motion/ama dip. Pitch-poling a big rig like that at or near max speed would be destructive, even deadly, and I would think, entail a dismasting from the stays/rigging even with a well made overbuilt boat. Lot's of mass and leverage flying about and at that point. Avoiding catastrophe at those speeds might be impossible. Very cool. I hope that the Frenchies get her back on the water soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites