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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Hastings

Keep A Close Watch on The Big Cheese

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Let us assume there is merit in the Albany news from Joceito and subsequent analysis by Comrade Stingray, the Master of Intelligence.

 

Place this against the backdrop of Ernesto's oft-repeated claim a BOR victory in Albany automatically leads to a DOG-Fight.

 

I do not believe Ernesto when he speaks like this.

 

But, for the sake of this thread, assume he sometimes speaks the truth.

 

If so, the DOG-Fight moved closer today.

 

Which means both sides have to start paying close attention to their respective DOG-Monsters.

 

BOR Dogzilla is off to the shed for surgery.

 

But what about the Big Cheese?

 

We now need another round of spy shots.

 

Could our Swiss members again swing into action?

 

Even a crowded parking lot would suggest the forces of darknesses are getting their cheeses in a row?

 

Or will they wait for the official verdict?

 

What do you think?

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Let us assume there is merit in the Albany news from Joceito and subsequent analysis by Comrade Stingray, the Master of Intelligence.

 

Place this against the backdrop of Ernesto's oft-repeated claim a BOR victory in Albany automatically leads to a DOG-Fight.

 

I do not believe Ernesto when he speaks like this.

 

But, for the sake of this thread, assume he sometimes speaks the truth.

 

If so, the DOG-Fight moved closer today.

 

Which means both sides have to start paying close attention to their respective DOG-Monsters.

 

BOR Dogzilla is off to the shed for surgery.

 

But what about the Big Cheese?

 

We now need another round of spy shots.

 

Could our Swiss members again swing into action?

 

Even a crowded parking lot would suggest the forces of darknesses are getting their cheeses in a row?

 

Or will they wait for the official verdict?

 

What do you think?

I am so keen to know what the hell is going in in Villeneuve that I have emailed several companies close by asking for fresh shots of the Decision and Alinghi facilities. Nobody will respond, lol, even the friendly Scuba Shop up the street.

 

I've watched head cams on sky divers, foot cams on paragliders, Red Bull Vertigo film, seen photos by hikers that overlook the town, feel like I've been there a thousand times. But the industrial area those facilities are in are not the scenic and photogenic parts of Villeneuve that most people capture. It's a beautiful town in a beautiful area, I encourage someone to stop by and click some of the manufacturing too :)

 

Anacortes is a special place in it's own way, they have nice marinas, good boat builders, excellent sailing waters, great scenery of islands and mountains too. But Villeneuve really is a gem. The industrial zone that probably houses AZ's monster parts includes a good variety of healthy businesses, many of them high-tech fabrication companies, it's as if owners in the trendier Montreux have their businesses located in Villeneuve (which means "new town" - despite it dating to back to a Roman settlement and probably beyond) and despite the slopes being mostly north-facing the vineyards produce well respected grapes. But even if it's not it's not Montreux or Vevey, it's still not cheap. There's a lot of money, rents and prices on apartments, houses and buildings are high.

 

I've been through Lugano a couple times but never over the Alps to the "Swiss Riviera" on Lake Leman. After reading about it I want to. Definitely a cool place and I expect we'll be learning a lot more about it soon.

 

For now,

Could our Swiss members again swing into action?

+1

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If Ernie knows Albany is set to rule for BOR, and there is no action in Villeneuve, it suggests there will be no DOG-Fight.

Deep down, does EB know the next AC is a multi-challenge show?

 

In the meantime, spy shots please!

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If Ernie knows Albany is set to rule for BOR, and there is no action in Villeneuve, it suggests there will be no DOG-Fight.

Deep down, does EB know the next AC is a multi-challenge show?

 

In the meantime, spy shots please!

 

Not necessarily - it just means he'll try to buy more time by suing for the CHR the following day. That will take six months, at least.

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Let us assume there is merit in the Albany news from Joceito and subsequent analysis by Comrade Stingray, the Master of Intelligence.

 

Place this against the backdrop of Ernesto's oft-repeated claim a BOR victory in Albany automatically leads to a DOG-Fight.

 

I do not believe Ernesto when he speaks like this.

 

But, for the sake of this thread, assume he sometimes speaks the truth.

 

If so, the DOG-Fight moved closer today.

 

Which means both sides have to start paying close attention to their respective DOG-Monsters.

 

BOR Dogzilla is off to the shed for surgery.

 

But what about the Big Cheese?

 

We now need another round of spy shots.

 

Could our Swiss members again swing into action?

 

Even a crowded parking lot would suggest the forces of darknesses are getting their cheeses in a row?

 

Or will they wait for the official verdict?

 

What do you think?

I am so keen to know what the hell is going in in Villeneuve that I have emailed several companies close by asking for fresh shots of the Decision and Alinghi facilities. Nobody will respond, lol, even the friendly Scuba Shop up the street.

 

I've watched head cams on sky divers, foot cams on paragliders, Red Bull Vertigo film, seen photos by hikers that overlook the town, feel like I've been there a thousand times. But the industrial area those facilities are in are not the scenic and photogenic parts of Villeneuve that most people capture. It's a beautiful town in a beautiful area, I encourage someone to stop by and click some of the manufacturing too :)

 

Anacortes is a special place in it's own way, they have nice marinas, good boat builders, excellent sailing waters, great scenery of islands and mountains too. But Villeneuve really is a gem. The industrial zone that probably houses AZ's monster parts includes a good variety of healthy businesses, many of them high-tech fabrication companies, it's as if owners in the trendier Montreux have their businesses located in Villeneuve (which means "new town" - despite it dating to back to a Roman settlement and probably beyond) and despite the slopes being mostly north-facing the vineyards produce well respected grapes. But even if it's not it's not Montreux or Vevey, it's still not cheap. There's a lot of money, rents and prices on apartments, houses and buildings are high.

 

I've been through Lugano a couple times but never over the Alps to the "Swiss Riviera" on Lake Leman. After reading about it I want to. Definitely a cool place and I expect we'll be learning a lot more about it soon.

 

For now,

Could our Swiss members again swing into action?

+1

 

 

I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

 

 

I'll have them before I leave........................

 

Maybe some funds from the SAAC account would cover it, since espionage is a part of any real AC challenge! ;)

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

 

 

I'll have them before I leave........................

 

Maybe some funds from the SAAC account would cover it, since espionage is a part of any real AC challenge! ;)

 

Did you check out the cost of a flight yet?

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

 

 

I'll have them before I leave........................

 

Maybe some funds from the SAAC account would cover it, since espionage is a part of any real AC challenge! ;)

 

Did you check out the cost of a flight yet?

 

Expedia says anywhere from $1050 to $2500 for round trip, hotel, and economy car to Geneva from Tampa.

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Expedia says anywhere from $1050 to $2500 for round trip, hotel, and economy car to Geneva from Tampa.

Wow - I bet it could be done for around $500 from Seattle at this time of the year. Expedia must be giving you the full-meal-deal..

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

 

 

I'll have them before I leave........................

 

Maybe some funds from the SAAC account would cover it, since espionage is a part of any real AC challenge! ;)

 

Did you check out the cost of a flight yet?

 

Expedia says anywhere from $1050 to $2500 for round trip, hotel, and economy car to Geneva from Tampa.

 

As clean already proposed using challenge funds to sponser his key west trip, I'm sure the guys who sent in their money to support an SA entry into the AC would have no problem with sending you on a jolly to the land of toblerone to check on a boat that may never be splashed, as it's a pretty expensive place you had better get a good per diem deal done before you go.

What happened to the Ed getting around to giving us details on the sa challenge funding? ..too busy getting the trash and trinket deals done?

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

 

 

I'll have them before I leave........................

 

Maybe some funds from the SAAC account would cover it, since espionage is a part of any real AC challenge! ;)

 

Did you check out the cost of a flight yet?

 

Expedia says anywhere from $1050 to $2500 for round trip, hotel, and economy car to Geneva from Tampa.

 

As clean already proposed using challenge funds to sponser his key west trip, I'm sure the guys who sent in their money to support an SA entry into the AC would have no problem with sending you on a jolly to the land of toblerone to check on a boat that may never be splashed, as it's a pretty expensive place you had better get a good per diem deal done before you go.

Speaking for myself, I want my little donation to stay Anarchy Challenge focussed for now. But if HHN can figure out something economical then I'll happily contribute a little to that good cause too. It would be a riot even if he can't find anything.

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I've got the time to go over there if we can take a collection to get me there, and maybe some bail money just in case EB has some goons keeping guard over things..............

 

How much for a flight from your place (Tampa?) to Geneva?

 

Add the cost of a few trains and 4 nights in a backpackers and bob's your uncle.

 

Do you have a camera? And a map?

 

 

I'll have them before I leave........................

 

Maybe some funds from the SAAC account would cover it, since espionage is a part of any real AC challenge! ;)

 

Did you check out the cost of a flight yet?

 

Expedia says anywhere from $1050 to $2500 for round trip, hotel, and economy car to Geneva from Tampa.

 

As clean already proposed using challenge funds to sponser his key west trip, I'm sure the guys who sent in their money to support an SA entry into the AC would have no problem with sending you on a jolly to the land of toblerone to check on a boat that may never be splashed, as it's a pretty expensive place you had better get a good per diem deal done before you go.

Speaking for myself, I want my little donation to stay Anarchy Challenge focussed for now. But if HHN can figure out something economical then I'll happily contribute a little to that good cause too. It would be a riot even if he can't find anything.

 

 

 

That was a first pass at it, just threw it in after you guys asked. I can research further if this is halfway serious.

 

I'm sure a NC/FL redneck going around asking these Swiss people where 'CheeseZilla' is would raise and eybrow or two................

 

"Hey feller, can you direct me to the CheeseZilla boat? What? No speaky Engy?"

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We might have to send Fuzz or WL from Seattle .....

 

They both know what is required

 

I suck at reconnaissance.

 

No doubt Maguah has some lawyer friends heading over there (UBS), maybe a couple are sailors? Perhaps well versed in detective work and investigations?

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We might have to send Fuzz or WL from Seattle .....

 

They both know what is required

 

I suck at reconnaissance.

 

No doubt Maguah has some lawyer friends heading over there (UBS), maybe a couple are sailors? Perhaps well versed in detective work and investigations?

 

 

 

well, there is a UBS office in our little town outside Tampa, maybe I should go ask them about 'CheeseZilla'? :o

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Achtung Swiss Anarchists !

 

Borrow the camera from aunty and post some spy shots.

 

It is to expensive for us to relaunch Stingray's spy satellite.

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Achtung Swiss Anarchists !

 

Borrow the camera from aunty and post some spy shots.

 

It is to expensive for us to relaunch Stingray's spy satellite.

kerrist Hastings, don't wet your pants on this ... yet ... ain't nothing to see overthere... yet

 

hey HHN , when you take the "and economy car to Geneva from Tampa." option, don't forget to go Google and let those funny people tell you where you have to drive off the dock in NY and where in London or so you'll surface ;) (and add in another charge of those $$$$-lusting Swiss, from the moment you dare to cross their border they will charge you for the use of their highways, whether you use them or not is not even a concern to them... maybe evil Ernie has a deal with them huh ? :lol: )

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Hastings, ... ain't nothing to see over there... yet

 

 

Alright !

 

Could you elaborate please?

 

There is nothing to see !

 

Why?

 

Or why not?

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Hastings, ... ain't nothing to see over there... yet

Alright ! Could you elaborate please? There is nothing to see ! Why? Or why not?

It has never made any sense to me that Alinghi would "make all of the parts" but hold off on assembling them. If they really are going to build a Cheezilla, my guess is they could have made the molds but haven't started any fabrication yet. If you are using a company that makes carbon fiber airplane parts, one would guess they could ramp up and produce very quickly.

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Hastings, ... ain't nothing to see over there... yet

Alright ! Could you elaborate please? There is nothing to see ! Why? Or why not?

It has never made any sense to me that Alinghi would "make all of the parts" but hold off on assembling them. If they really are going to build a Cheezilla, my guess is they could have made the molds but haven't started any fabrication yet. If you are using a company that makes carbon fiber airplane parts, one would guess they could ramp up and produce very quickly.

Yes, it could be that it's only the molds they have built so far.

 

And as a reminder, the company that produced those Solar Impulse parts was Decision SA, same as who built large pieces in Vevey before closing that facility. In the Solar Impulse case, they were built in Villeneuve, in space leased from Miauton, in a facility Miauton purchased last year from Bombardier. They also have a smaller facility, next to an Alinghi one, in Vill. And there ~may well~ be a new "VAB"-like tent standing somewhere close by, housing either the molds or the completed parts.

 

Farther off track... I mentioned an obtuse reference that was made by an Alinghi designer that got me to speculating about multiple masts. I can't find that reference (am missing SH issue 342, it could have been in there) but what did trigger my imagination was probably a photo on page 31 of issue 341, in an interview with Nigel Irens, under "Classic Irens: ...Clifton Flasher, which set a new Class C world speed record in 1974"

 

This is not that same photo, but it's equally, umm, quaint. From here

 

post-17804-1236626627_thumb.jpg

 

Again, the rumored use of powered systems is what reminded me of that.

 

Btw, Irens dismisses the notion of any sold wing of Zilla-sized proportions in the same issue 341 article.

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Hastings, ... ain't nothing to see over there... yet

Alright ! Could you elaborate please? There is nothing to see ! Why? Or why not?

It has never made any sense to me that Alinghi would "make all of the parts" but hold off on assembling them. If they really are going to build a Cheezilla, my guess is they could have made the molds but haven't started any fabrication yet. If you are using a company that makes carbon fiber airplane parts, one would guess they could ramp up and produce very quickly.

Very quickly may be an issue. Last published estimates for the time and people involved to construct a large multi is that you need anything between 30,000 (BOR90 (?)) man-hours and 80,000 (BP V) man-hours to get it done right. Not so easy to compress that sort of build program into a very short time-frame, even if the moulds are done already.

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This is not that same photo, but it's equally, umm, quaint. From here

 

Btw, Irens dismisses the notion of any sold wing of Zilla-sized proportions in the same issue 341 article.

On a remotely similar subject, I can't tell the date but there's a tantalizing glimpse of the solid wing US-1 S&S at the very end of this video. It's on Lake Avandaro, near the town of Valle Bravo, about 145 km (90 miles) SW of Mexico City, in a region that some call the 'Mexican Alps.'

 

http://www.onlineadventure.com/videos/Valle-de-Bravo

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This photo is from late 2003, on that same lake. I found it in the SA Multihull forum and followed up on it for some details.

 

post-17804-1236628794_thumb.jpg

 

Don't know the date on this one but it is also from on Lake Andaro:

 

post-17804-1236628882_thumb.jpg

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This photo is from late 2003, on that same lake. I found it in the SA Multihull forum and followed up on it for some details.

 

post-17804-1236628794_thumb.jpg

 

Don't know the date on this one but it is also from on Lake Andaro:

 

post-17804-1236628882_thumb.jpg

Great Pictures, thanks for digging them up SR.

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Great Pictures, thanks for digging them up SR.

Glad you like them too.

 

The boat may be destroyed beyond repair if the rumors are true. But I'd like to track her down to find out for sure. There's a remote chance that she is in some state of disrepair but still possible to salvage. I mean think about it: If you had the very boat that DC successfully defended the America's Cup with, would you have it deliberately and completely scrapped? If it sank in deep water, then maybe.. If the rig just blew apart in a hurricane, or more likely just took ~some~ damage to the soft parts, then as a presumably well-heeled owner you may just set it aside for a possible repair some day in the future. She looked pretty great as recently as 2003, I do think there's some chance of it.

 

The value in tracking it down, repairing it, then renting or buying it, and then transporting it, would need to be offset by the value in doing so. And if this DoG Match suddenly got a lot more likely with Jocecito's 'announcement' then, well, what better time for her to shine again?

 

If we could paint a big red A on her and 'Challenge' DZ to a 'Match' on a DoG sized course then you never know. Networks like ABC or CBS could really take an interest. For one, it provides a way to put things in historical perspective. For another, it paves the way for all kinds of personalities, stories and archived material to get mixed in with an interesting and current context. And the fact her soft-sailed sister is still active proves she's a fast design even by today's standards.

 

I know it sounds far-fetched, especially money wise. But we don't actually know that for a fact. It would be good to find out, or else it's a missed opportunity.

 

Here's a short archival video, sponsored ironically by Mahguah's new-found friend - UBS:

Historical Videos: The Mismatch, Dennis Conner, IACC

 

Thoughts?

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Been posted before but here is a reminder, from Where Are They Now?

--

 

1988 - Stars & Stripes US-1 Catamaran

 

“The boats are going to be very big, very radical, and very controversial. The contest will not be a sailboat race. It will be a design lottery in which the sailors will have little or nothing to do with the outcome. In one word, the 1988 America’s Cup challenge will be bizarre.”

 

That was the assessment of Dennis Conner as published in an interview for the Australian review The Bulletin on December 15th, 1987. The facts would prove Conner right and the unsurprising victory of his small 18.30-metre LOA catamaran, Stars & Stripes, against the huge 27.43-metre LOA monohull New Zealand would remain forever the most incongruous America’s Cup.

 

The long silence of the San Diego Yacht Club following Dennis Conner's victory with the 12-metre Stars & Stripes on February 4th, 1987 in Fremantle is often cited as the reason behind the 1988 America’s Cup. Taking literally the words of the Deed of Gift, the New Zealand banker Michael Fay, impatient with American foot-dragging, sent a challenge contrary to all expectations on July 15th, 1987.

 

His challenger would be a 90-foot monohull, pushing aside the 12-metre class that had been used in each Cup since 1958. Taken aback, the Americans rejected the challenge but Fay asked to the Supreme Court of the State of New York County to intervene. On November 25th, Justice Carmen Beauchamp Ciparick confirmed the validity of the challenge.

 

With just 10 months to prepare, the Defender decided upon a radical option. John Marshall, the chief of the Sail America Foundation design team, announced on January 22nd, 1988 that the defender would be a catamaran. The Americans had only eight months left to conceive, build and test a defender capable of repelling the assault of Fay's ‘Big Boat’.

 

The American decision was simple on one level, yet at the same time was complex. It was obvious that the multihull choice was likely to be interpreted as a provocation and would generate a new legal conflict. But from a sailing point of view it was simple – the Americans didn’t have the time to catch up in conceiving and constructing a big monohull. Instead, it was easier to opt for a catamaran, which was sure to be faster, more elusive, and with a LOA limited to 60 feet (18.29 metres) it would be able to be built quickly.

 

On April 15th, 1988 (the immense monohull New Zealand had been sailing in the waters off Auckland since March 27th) John Marshall confirmed that two catamarans were in the process of being built. The first one would be fitted with a soft rig, the second with a hard rig. Conceived in record time, Stars and Stripes, the Defender catamaran was a successful marriage merging cutting-edge naval architecture with aeronautics. For this, Marshall co-ordinated a team comprising exceptional people like Gino Morrelli, who since his youth was fascinated by multihulls. He very quickly became one of the best American specialists and accepted without hesitation the challenge of the America’s Cup. With Bruce Nelson, Britton Chance and Bernard Nivelt, he drew up the catamaran. As expected, two 60-foot boats were built, one of them soft-rigged, following Morrelli’s design. The other one was hard-rigged with a winged-mast, a specialty of Dave Hubbard and Duncan MacLane (who had previously worked out this mode of propulsion on 25 feet-catamarans (7.72 metre) belonging to the C-Class, as the famous Patient Lady.

 

To scale up the concept of a mast-wing with articulated flaps from a 25-foot catamaran to a 60-foot machine, Marshall appealed to Burt Rutan's talents, the designer of Voyager, an ultra-light airplane that would make a round the world flight without stopping in 1988. In ten weeks, Rutan, Hubbard and MacLane, supported by a team of 40 people, succeeded in extrapolating the concept. It was an achievement “more difficult than with the airplane wing” Rutan would say later, because of the absolute constraint to save weight.

 

On May 24th, the first boat was launched and in June, Dennis Conner sailed with the hard-rigged cat. The team discovered that in light wind, the traditional soft rigging of the sister ship was more effective. But in more steady, stronger winds, the hard-rigged cat was faster but the risk of material failure was bigger. So Rutan and his team built up a new winged mast and delivered it at the beginning of August. This second structure was 40% bigger and far more solid than the first one. The mast measured 32.61 metres, 5.80 metres more than the first one, and thus the performance was there: the catamaran fitted with the hard rig was preferred to the classic soft-rigged boat.

 

(contd)

 

--

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Meanwhile, on May 5th, 1988, as expected, Michael Fay again asked for justice. He argued that the San Diego YC should defend the America’s Cup in September 1988 but with a 90-foot monohull. He noted the Deed of Gift required a match between “like and similar boats.”

 

Another lawyer experimenting with jedi mind tricks. The Deed of Gift says no such thing.

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From that link,

 

Some months after the race, a Mexican yachtsman, Victor Tapia, acquired the catamaran. Excited by the prospect of watching the 1992 America’s Cup races, Tapia sailed the cat to San Diego. Ten years later, Stars & Stripes was sailing on Valle de Bravo Lake, near Mexico City. The last report we had of it, Stars & Stripes was for sale in Mexico.

 

That's the lake where those shots I posted were taken, back-whenever. edit: The 2003 photos is from during the 49er NA's in March 2003.

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Alert................Alert...................Alert

 

Larry the Cable Guy is going to be on Hannity @ FNN

 

I know some of you do not go that way, but I like Larry..............since 1992 ;)

 

Sorry.................HiJack over..........................

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This is great - Got a PM from someone I've learned to trust. With their permission:

 

"Hey, you can take it from me that the boat is fully built. There are no sails as yet and Ernesto doesn't want to launch it unless he has to."

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This is great - Got a PM from someone I've learned to trust. With their permission:

 

"Hey, you can take it from me that the boat is fully built. There are no sails as yet and Ernesto doesn't want to launch it unless he has to."

 

Should I keep digging for a cheap rate to Geneva then?

 

I was trying to negotiate with Bill Shatner.........................

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This is great - Got a PM from someone I've learned to trust. With their permission:

 

"Hey, you can take it from me that the boat is fully built. There are no sails as yet and Ernesto doesn't want to launch it unless he has to."

 

Should I keep digging for a cheap rate to Geneva then?

 

I was trying to negotiate with Bill Shatner.........................

No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

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This is great - Got a PM from someone I've learned to trust. With their permission:

 

"Hey, you can take it from me that the boat is fully built. There are no sails as yet and Ernesto doesn't want to launch it unless he has to."

 

Should I keep digging for a cheap rate to Geneva then?

 

I was trying to negotiate with Bill Shatner.........................

No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

"OK Bill, forget that deal............I know $250 round trip is a deal but the boat is not there..............I know, I've gotta unpack my bags too, feller...............just hold on, I'll call ya when I know more....................Stingray says his guy says its not there..................well you want me to go stare at an empty warehouse.................WTF Bill...............I know you own stock and your acting career is down the tubes.................well.....call Spock and whine then............."

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No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

Damn the swiss and their secrecy laws. no one has let on anything more about this rumoured 115 ft monster, where does one hide such a beast? Any guesses on where it could be now. And havent they done a good job keeping everyone guessing.

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No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

It had better be in Switzerland!

 

 

No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

Damn the swiss and their secrecy laws. no one has let on anything more about this rumoured 115 ft monster, where does one hide such a beast? Any guesses on where it could be now. And havent they done a good job keeping everyone guessing.

 

Well I don't have permission to repeat more than what I did. But what he said leads me to believe what someone else told me quite recently, that I dismissed. I dismissed it in part because he never responded to a simple followup question, which was "what part of that can I post?"

 

Perhaps I should not have dismissed that info. Like this guy, he has no posts. And apparently he's not planning to answer any more from me anyway, and so I may as well say what ~that~ person said.

 

They said it was "between Villeneuve and Montreux."

 

At the time, I looked for buildings large enough to hold monster hulls but didn't see any. There are just two villages between Villeneuve and Montreux - Veytaux and Grandchamps. The only likelihood it is close to the lake is if they were to assemble and launch it on the lake. If they did "bond" it then I don;t effing know how they could get it to, say, the Med. But everything is quite close to the lake anyway, partly being as the mountains confine the population that way. From what I saw, there aren't many buildings that look 'warehouse' enough, ones that would have large doors or expansive indoor spaces uninterrupted by supporting walls. Unlike the facilities in Villeneuve, and one reason I stuck hard to that theory, is that if you go north along the lake then they look too residential, some even 'palatial.'

 

Not sure if this link will work the way I want, but let's try here

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No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

Damn the swiss and their secrecy laws. no one has let on anything more about this rumoured 115 ft monster, where does one hide such a beast? Any guesses on where it could be now. And havent they done a good job keeping everyone guessing.

 

Final exam question:

 

What ontology informs a statement claiming "we know where the boat is not?"

 

What theory or process could be deployed to unmask all the places where it is not.

 

And then find where it is?

 

I am pretty certain it ain't in my bedroom.

 

Or the kitchen !

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No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

It had better be in Switzerland!

 

 

No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

Damn the swiss and their secrecy laws. no one has let on anything more about this rumoured 115 ft monster, where does one hide such a beast? Any guesses on where it could be now. And havent they done a good job keeping everyone guessing.

 

Well I don't have permission to repeat more than what I did. But what he said leads me to believe what someone else told me quite recently, that I dismissed. I dismissed it in part because he never responded to a simple followup question, which was "what part of that can I post?"

 

Perhaps I should not have dismissed that info. Like this guy, he has no posts. And apparently he's not planning to answer any more from me anyway, and so I may as well say what ~that~ person said.

 

They said it was "between Villeneuve and Montreux."

 

 

Could they be building it in an underground tunnel?

 

Swiss do stuff like that !

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Not sure if this link will work the way I want, but let's try here

You can get a nice idea of the area if you click "More..." and check "Photos"

 

No monsters of course, but still :)

 

 

Looks like a good spot to me, on the west side of the canal, opposite of the marina, looks like a spot where dirt was being moved.

 

Maybe for a big tent.................

 

edit; let's try this again......

 

Villeneuve

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Final exam question:

 

What ontology informs a statement claiming "we know where the boat is not?"

 

What theory or process could be deployed to unmask all the places where it is not.

 

And then find where it is?

 

I am pretty certain it ain't in my bedroom.

 

Or the kitchen !

Funny, and true. Yes, it's disappointing to me that it's in neither location I had fixated on. And it could be basically anywhere ""between Villeneuve and Montreux" because, in the absence of any fun spy shots and such, there's just absolutely no way of making a decent guess.

 

But it sure was fun to hear the one today about the boat being 'complete.' I bet she's quite a looker!

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Looks like a good spot to me, on the west side of the canal, opposite of the marina, looks like a spot where dirt was being moved.

 

Maybe for a big tent.................

 

Villenueve

Umm, that link took me to Villeneuve, FRANCE

 

You really are going to need a map if you make that trip!

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But it sure was fun to hear the one today about the boat being 'complete.' I bet she's quite a looker!

 

 

I reckon !

 

And will personally award a toaster to the first person to post a credible spy shot of Cheesezilla !

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Looks like a good spot to me, on the west side of the canal, opposite of the marina, looks like a spot where dirt was being moved.

 

Maybe for a big tent.................

 

Villenueve

Umm, that link took me to Villeneuve, FRANCE

 

You really are going to need a map if you make that trip!

 

Check it again, had to edit. Swapped Villeneuve's on me for some reason?!?!

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We've been looking for the wrong thing, its CHOCZilla not Cheezilla. Are there any chocolate factories between Villenueve and Montreaux?

post-32090-1236655192_thumb.jpg

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Check it again, had to edit. Swapped Villeneuve's on me for some reason?!?!

You have to move to where you want to show, then click on the Link button (top-right) then copy where it says "Paste link in email or IM"

 

This photo is fuzzy, but it still gives an idea the area

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6070816.jpg

 

The red roof may be one of the roofs at here, haven't really thought about it yet.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...mp;t=h&z=16

 

Did it twice and the second one worked.

 

The area due west of the red roof, where the canal enters the lake and there is a gap in the breakwater would be a nice spot for a Vehicle Assembly Tent...............

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Could they be building it in an underground tunnel?

 

Swiss do stuff like that !

 

There's one heck of a tunnel here

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...mp;t=k&z=15

Follow the big highway, they went right through the mountain with it.

 

Halfway along, but on the lake, there's a marina that I think is also a ferry terminal. The two red-roofed buildings could be candidates - a good sized marina, maybe cranes, .. :)

 

okay, fixed that link..

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This photo is fuzzy, but it still gives an idea the area

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6070816.jpg

 

The red roof may be one of the roofs at here, haven't really thought about it yet.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source....01811&z=16

 

(fixed this one too)

 

 

The building with the red roof is the local sports complex, which is on the opposite side of Montreux to Villeneuve. A small district called Clarens..

Most of the photos and maps you guys are looking at are quite outdated..

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This photo is fuzzy, but it still gives an idea the area

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6070816.jpg

 

The red roof may be one of the roofs at here, haven't really thought about it yet.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source....01811&z=16

 

(fixed this one too)

 

 

OK .... Swiss Anarchists .. Haul thy butt over to the red building and look in the windows.

 

May not fit your culture but beg forgiveness, not permission !

 

Evidence of boat building?

 

Vanity number plates on vehicles in the parking lot?

 

What does the bloke in the local coffee shop say is happening in that building?

 

If it is a sports complex we return to "go" - collecting a coffee on the way.

 

Stingray is entitled to get some sleep at night.

 

So get on it !!!!

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Most of the photos and maps you guys are looking at are quite outdated..

 

 

Moon Unit ... if these are outdated, can you give us a hand?

Any hints on where Cheesezilla resides?

 

Anywhere near this area?

 

Or somewhere else?

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Most of the photos and maps you guys are looking at are quite outdated..

 

 

Moon Unit ... if these are outdated, can you give us a hand?

Any hints on where Cheesezilla resides?

 

Anywhere near this area?

 

Or somewhere else?

 

Not far away from there, not sure how i can help with any maps sorry..

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This photo is fuzzy, but it still gives an idea the area

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/6070816.jpg

 

The red roof may be one of the roofs at here, haven't really thought about it yet.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source....01811&z=16

 

 

The building with the red roof is the local sports complex, which is on the opposite side of Montreux to Villeneuve. A small district called Clarens..

Yes, thanks for the correction and clarification. My silly mistake, I had turned the sat-map labels to "off" while following the shoreline looking for any nice locations.

 

Most of the photos and maps you guys are looking at are quite outdated..

Yes, I noticed that in Villeneuve too. Even the Decision yard had a new roof in recent photo's, including in the ones that Alinghi provided, compared to the Google Map ones. Someone suggested that the boat is being kept in a 'temporary' building - but they did not clarify if that meant a 'temporary' building like how DZ had their VAB tent facility, or it they meant "it is in a permanent building, temporarily."

 

Are you saying a recently-built, temporary facility? That ~would~ make more sense. ?

 

And between Chateau Chilon and Territet, probably?

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Here's a nice location, there is a ferry terminal (so good dock facilities) and a train station (so good platform/facilities) and both can likely accomodate cranes.

 

And there are two roofs, each large enough to house big hulls. It would make logical sense to a planner, it that is all true.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...m.panoramio.all

 

 

Another nice location, if it is a temporary building we can't see on Google, could be here. It's just a half mile south of the ferry terminal and has a small marina, and is next to the rail line, but I see no platform a crane could stand on. Maybe they put some things in the vineyard?

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...004528&z=18

 

edit: this second location seems less likely, because it is part of the Chateau's vineyard and this photo suggests the slope is too steep going up to the railroad.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5116412

 

Logistics must be quite hard around here.

 

Pretty boat, taken nearby: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/13367334

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edit: this second location seems less likely, because it is part of the Chateau's vineyard and this photo suggests the slope is too steep going up to the railroad.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5116412

A better shot of the train in this area and how steeply it drops down to the lake below.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6461711

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Here's a nice location, there is a ferry terminal (so good dock facilities) and a train station (so good platform/facilities) and both can likely accomodate cranes.

 

And there are two roofs, each large enough to house big hulls. It would make logical sense to a planner, it that is all true.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...m.panoramio.all

 

Well scratch that one too. Like the other marina to the south, this ferry terminal one is too small for a monster.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/16535301.jpg

 

And like much of this area, the place is steep! And it is already built up with well established infrastructure along the lake, except for in the parks and vineyards.

 

Guessing about CZ being along the water and the rail line may not be clever after all.

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Most of the photos and maps you guys are looking at are quite outdated..

 

 

Moon Unit ... if these are outdated, can you give us a hand?

Any hints on where Cheesezilla resides?

 

Anywhere near this area?

 

Or somewhere else?

 

Not far away from there, not sure how i can help with any maps sorry..

 

How far away?

 

And it what direction?

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This is great - Got a PM from someone I've learned to trust. With their permission:

 

"Hey, you can take it from me that the boat is fully built. There are no sails as yet and Ernesto doesn't want to launch it unless he has to."

 

On this, it may be "fully built" but I doubt that it is also bonded. I think it's probably still in pieces.

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This is great - Got a PM from someone I've learned to trust. With their permission:

 

"Hey, you can take it from me that the boat is fully built. There are no sails as yet and Ernesto doesn't want to launch it unless he has to."

 

On this, it may be "fully built" but I doubt that it is also bonded. I think it's probably still in pieces.

If so, Alinghi's statements on this have been straight forward all along.

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No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

It had better be in Switzerland!

 

 

No, because he also told me where it is ~not~ and so now I have no idea where it is!

 

Damn the swiss and their secrecy laws. no one has let on anything more about this rumoured 115 ft monster, where does one hide such a beast? Any guesses on where it could be now. And havent they done a good job keeping everyone guessing.

 

Well I don't have permission to repeat more than what I did. But what he said leads me to believe what someone else told me quite recently, that I dismissed. I dismissed it in part because he never responded to a simple followup question, which was "what part of that can I post?"

 

Perhaps I should not have dismissed that info. Like this guy, he has no posts. And apparently he's not planning to answer any more from me anyway, and so I may as well say what ~that~ person said.

 

They said it was "between Villeneuve and Montreux."

 

At the time, I looked for buildings large enough to hold monster hulls but didn't see any. There are just two villages between Villeneuve and Montreux - Veytaux and Grandchamps. The only likelihood it is close to the lake is if they were to assemble and launch it on the lake. If they did "bond" it then I don;t effing know how they could get it to, say, the Med. But everything is quite close to the lake anyway, partly being as the mountains confine the population that way. From what I saw, there aren't many buildings that look 'warehouse' enough, ones that would have large doors or expansive indoor spaces uninterrupted by supporting walls. Unlike the facilities in Villeneuve, and one reason I stuck hard to that theory, is that if you go north along the lake then they look too residential, some even 'palatial.'

 

Not sure if this link will work the way I want, but let's try here

 

If we believe Stingray's source, and I have no reason to doubt him. If 'Ray believes him, that's good enough for me..... then how about this?

 

Seeing as all of this is starting to take on quite the "cloak and dagger" mystique.. : What if it isn't ~inside~ out of sight? EB and his minions are pretty devious... I've examined that coastline and inland area and agree with the esteemed Stingray that there don't appear to be any buildings that fit the bill. What if, however, it were hidden in plain sight? Under mesh, strewn with shrubbery... painted like a tennis court, empty parking lot or vacant marina? Or... painted medium blue and sunk somewhere along that coast?

 

(I'm not really a wacko... and I do NOT believe in the magic bullet...)

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

The latest suggestion we have is that Alinghi's initial order from North (and from the USA, not Alinghi/Blacksails) was for delivery in May. It is possible they couldn't get them any earlier at the price EB was willing to pay.

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Here's a nice location, there is a ferry terminal (so good dock facilities) and a train station (so good platform/facilities) and both can likely accomodate cranes.

 

And there are two roofs, each large enough to house big hulls. It would make logical sense to a planner, it that is all true.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...m.panoramio.all

 

Well scratch that one too. Like the other marina to the south, this ferry terminal one is too small for a monster.

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/16535301.jpg

 

And like much of this area, the place is steep! And it is already built up with well established infrastructure along the lake, except for in the parks and vineyards.

 

Guessing about CZ being along the water and the rail line may not be clever after all.

 

OK, been at the club all day helping run a Fireball regatta (or better yet.......waiting on the seabreeze to fill-in).

 

Where do I need to negotiate a trip to with William Shatner................Villeneuve, or one of these other places. Somebody Google and mark the map so I can do a 'Home of the Stars' type tour around lake Geneva, looking for a 'CheezeZilla'.

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I know there can be very different dates on adjacent patches of the mosiac photos... how current are our Google "Spyshots"? I also think it would be extremely easy to hide in plain sight from above... IF it were also secluded from the sideview/street view to ward off triangulation to get a fix on it. A tall fence and any of boatpartsguy's suggestions would keep it well hidden unless we could get some time on one of NSA's birds... The resolution available there is PHEnomenal! Any anarchist out there that is a FED in the World offline?.... kinda like a long haired hippy freak in disguise as G-man. I remember that role, gah how stifling!!!!!!!!!!!

 

13

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Moon Unit gives the impression he knows the location of Cheesezilla.

 

So, all we need is for him to say where it is.

 

And a search can be mounted.

 

Moon Unit .... your move!

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Moon Unit gives the impression he knows the location of Cheesezilla.

 

So, all we need is for him to say where it is.

 

And a search can be mounted.

 

Moon Unit .... your move!

 

Sorry to give you a false impression.. I only know where it's not...

In saying that, you are on the right track.. I think.. B)

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Flights to Geneva are very cheap right now, Hastings. Hop on one and go do some detective work near the lake. Find the prize, take a picture, and I'll send you some really cool swag.

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

 

 

Would you care to comment on the fact that America had a sprit jibboom and a flying jib built by the Ratsey's of Cowes a couple of days before the big race?

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

 

 

Would you care to comment on the fact that America had a sprit jibboom and a flying jib built by the Ratsey's of Cowes a couple of days before the big race?

And she used a local British pilot for the race round the Island.

 

But it doesn't really matter, 'cos there was no Deed of Gift drawn up till 36 years later.

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

 

 

Would you care to comment on the fact that America had a sprit jibboom and a flying jib built by the Ratsey's of Cowes a couple of days before the big race?

 

Sure.

 

If I understand you correctly, the race you are citing was not even The America's Cup.

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

 

 

Would you care to comment on the fact that America had a sprit jibboom and a flying jib built by the Ratsey's of Cowes a couple of days before the big race?

 

Sure.

 

If I understand you correctly, the race you are citing was not even The America's Cup.

 

Everything that came after the 1st race is surely a part of the context of the Americas Cup.

 

Any organized yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the legislature, admiralty or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match for this Cup with a yacht or vessel propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the challenging Club belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the Cup.

 

I see in the DoG that the vessel must be constructed in the country of the challenging and defending clubs but do not see where it says the sails have to be made there.

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

 

 

Would you care to comment on the fact that America had a sprit jibboom and a flying jib built by the Ratsey's of Cowes a couple of days before the big race?

 

Sure.

 

If I understand you correctly, the race you are citing was not even The America's Cup.

 

Everything that came after the 1st race is surely a part of the context of the Americas Cup.

 

Any organized yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the legislature, admiralty or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match for this Cup with a yacht or vessel propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the challenging Club belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the Cup.

 

I see in the DoG that the vessel must be constructed in the country of the challenging and defending clubs but do not see where it says the sails have to be made there.

 

And you don't think that sails are part of the "vessel" in question?

 

Did Schuyler not intend the America's Cup as a test of the technological prowess of the clubs and nations involved?

 

Are sails not a huge part of the technological equation in modern sailboats?

 

Would old Georgie-boy have approved of one of the major speed determining components of a defending yacht being built in the challenging country by a company owned and operated in that country and using technology and know-how available exclusively in that country?

 

I think he might at least raise an eyebrow.

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There were rumors that Alinghi had booked time on North's 3DL machine. Any further word on that?

 

Is Alinghi going to move that 3DL machine to Switzerland and then make the sails so they can be Deed legal?

 

 

Would you care to comment on the fact that America had a sprit jibboom and a flying jib built by the Ratsey's of Cowes a couple of days before the big race?

 

Sure.

 

If I understand you correctly, the race you are citing was not even The America's Cup.

 

Everything that came after the 1st race is surely a part of the context of the Americas Cup.

 

Any organized yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or licensed by the legislature, admiralty or other executive department, having for its annual regatta an ocean water course on the sea, or on an arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the right of sailing a match for this Cup with a yacht or vessel propelled by sails only and constructed in the country to which the challenging Club belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the Club holding the Cup.

 

I see in the DoG that the vessel must be constructed in the country of the challenging and defending clubs but do not see where it says the sails have to be made there.

 

Your boy Erne$to doesn't see where is says that a club has to have held a regatta prior to issuing their challenge either.

 

We know from prior court filings that Erne$to is making an issue out of GGYC's CHR not being submitted with their challenge, when he is also saying they are not the challenger.

 

Therefore, is it a real leap to think that he's going to file suit about the CHR as soon as the CoA rules, if they do rule in favor of GGYC?

 

And to counter that, why would GGYC not try to legally prevent the use of sails made in another country by SNG in a DoG match?

 

So, Erne$to will have helped to keep the New York legal community fully employed when he starts the suing, again, over the CHR.

 

The best way to end all of this is to have SNG removed as the Trustee, and by natural extension, Alinghi as the defending team.

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The best way to end all of this is to have SNG removed as the Trustee, and by natural extension, Alinghi as the defending team.

That is not the best way. The best way for this to end is for someone to beat SNG/Alinghi in a sailboat race and take the cup home with them. Even worse than Alinghi's false scare scenario of GGYC using legal maneuvering to force a one-on-one DoG match "excluding" 18 challengers, would be for someone to actually use legal maneuvering to take the cup away without any racing whatsoever.

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The best way to end all of this is to have SNG removed as the Trustee, and by natural extension, Alinghi as the defending team.

That is not the best way. The best way for this to end is for someone to beat SNG/Alinghi in a sailboat race and take the cup home with them. Even worse than Alinghi's false scare scenario of GGYC using legal maneuvering to force a one-on-one DoG match "excluding" 18 challengers, would be for someone to actually use legal maneuvering to take the cup away without any racing whatsoever.

 

MAHGUAH SAY BROTHER PJH-

 

SO ARE YOU SAYING IF A TRUSTEE -TEAM IS ILLEGALLY OPERATING THE TRUST AND IS IN BREACH OF TRUST -IT[bREACH OF TRUST] SHOULDNT BE PROSECUTED

 

IN COURT ?

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Anarchy Challenge gets a mention, here:

--

 

Kan komme når som helst

Can come anytime

 

Afgørelsen fra den amerikanske højesteret ventes indenfor den næste måned, men kan komme hver dag det skal være.

 

The decision by the U.S. Supreme Court is expected within the next month, but can come every day it should be.

 

Rygter viderebragt af den meget åbenmundede redaktion på Sailing Anarchy siger, at Oracle skulle ligge an til en sejr.

 

Rumors passed on by the very open ended redaktion on Sailing Anarchy says that Oracle would be an a victory.

 

Sailing Anarchy har i øvrigt lanceret sin egen udfordring, den såkaldte ”people’s challenge”, eller SAYC – Sailing Anarchy Yacht Club , som en slags humoristisk kommentar til cirkusset omkring mere eller mindre virkelig sejlklubber.

 

Sailing Anarchy has also launched its own challenge, the so-called "people's challenge, or SAYC - Sailing Anarchy Yacht Club, as a kind of humorous commentary on the circus surrounding more or less real sailing clubs.

 

 

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