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Lake Ontario Anarchy

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Buy your Shark back, JCL

Worlds in August at the National

I enjoyed sailing in that fleet. Lots of great talent. If CDS was for sale, I'd consider getting back involved for sure. Got a truck a few years back so no more u-haul as a tow vehicle!

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Any insight as to which OD fleets are gaining traction in Toronto these days?

O'Day Tempest

Would have expected 8 metres from you...

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Any insight as to which OD fleets are gaining traction in Toronto these days?

O'Day Tempest

Would have expected 8 metres from you...

You know - you can build a hundred buidlings and not be able to call yourself an architect. But you sail one 8 Metre...!!!

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good idea lol

it isnt classified as a spinnaker!

ya, but do you think it would be kosher?

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I think so. Many use them on the FS class and i never pay much attention to the white sail. As far as I know they are legal but I consider them a cheater sail.

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I think so. Many use them on the FS class and i never pay much attention to the white sail. As far as I know they are legal but I consider them a cheater sail.

for sure.

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I would think anybody flying a code zero in a white sail race is cheating unless they've had it measured as a genoa (for a rating penalty) and tack it behind the forestay.

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I would think anybody flying a code zero in a white sail race is cheating unless they've had it measured as a genoa (for a rating penalty) and tack it behind the forestay.

for it to measure as a code zero, it must measure as a genoa. if it is under the size of your biggest rated genoa (a 160) there is no hit. if it wont fit as a genoa (mid girth measurement) then it is a chute.

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code zero is generally same-as or smaller girth than the spinnaker and always larger than the genoa... otherwise what is the point in having it.

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code zero is generally same-as or smaller girth than the spinnaker and always larger than the genoa... otherwise what is the point in having it.

 

If the Mid Girth is less than 50% of the foot of the sail, it is a genoa and must be attached to the forestay as per the RRS. The lighter material in this case would make it like a drifter and would incur penalty/credits related to the LP%. If an LP of 170% is decided, it must be decided whether to carry it on the boat for the season along with the related penalty. It may not be declared on a light air day and then removed for the next race.

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Well that would make it a genoa... not a code zero. I thought we were talking about whether code zeros are legal in white sail races.

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we are, that comes from the phrf lo description of what a code zero is.

i know it is not in the spirit of things, but is it legal?

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The only boats that really benefit from a veneer or code zero are thosd that have non overlapping genoas or they are ao fast that they move the apparent wind forward

If you have 160 % + Denpasar like older C&C etc you are probably better off with a very light no 1 in light conditions

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Just got back from sailing in Greece on a Pogo 12.50 and the genaker was an awesome sail for that boat

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Use of a Code Zero in a White Sails fleet.

 

Under the PHRF LO definition, Jib is defined under the Racing Rules of Sailing, section 50.4. Headsails.

 

RRS 50.4 Headsails:

For the purposes of rules 50 and 54 and Appendix G, the difference between a headsail and a spinnaker is that the width of a headsail, measured between the midpoints of its luff and leech, is less than 75% of the length of its foot. A sail tacked down behind the foremost mast is not a headsail.

 

I suggest that any code zero that you intend to use in a White Sails race be measured by your sailmaker and the measurements be given to your club handicapper. If the sail is deemed to be a Genoa, then the LP must be measured and would most likely be the largest genoa on the boat and would be penalized as such.

 

John Crawley

Toronto West District Chief Handicapper.

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Use of a Code Zero in a White Sails fleet.

 

Under the PHRF LO definition, Jib is defined under the Racing Rules of Sailing, section 50.4. Headsails.

 

RRS 50.4 Headsails:

For the purposes of rules 50 and 54 and Appendix G, the difference between a headsail and a spinnaker is that the width of a headsail, measured between the midpoints of its luff and leech, is less than 75% of the length of its foot. A sail tacked down behind the foremost mast is not a headsail.

 

I suggest that any code zero that you intend to use in a White Sails race be measured by your sailmaker and the measurements be given to your club handicapper. If the sail is deemed to be a Genoa, then the LP must be measured and would most likely be the largest genoa on the boat and would be penalized as such.

 

John Crawley

Toronto West District Chief Handicapper.

thanks john

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Any insight as to which OD fleets are gaining traction in Toronto these days?

O'Day Tempest

Would have expected 8 metres from you...

J-105

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The ABYC Regatta is just 3 weeks away, Classes include, 4 divisions in IRC, 8 Metres, 36.7's, 99's, 105's, J-24's, Etchells, T-birds, plus PHRF, both spinnaker and white sail divisions. The long cold winter is now over, it's time to play, no excuses for missing this one, lets get the word out. This is a well organized event with very good RC, and always a great party. With the addition of the PHRF fleets it would a very good opportunity for newbies and those club hotshots to challenge themselves more than a mile from their own dock, and at the same time providing an intro into the LORC racing circuit.

Sign up at LORC.org.

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Just reduced the asking price for my Tripp 33 and listed it here. Sorry to sell the boat but moving on to another chapter with my family. If anyone is looking for a good well equiped race boat it is ready to go in Whitby. Very competitive boat for boat with J109's and Benateau 36'7s.

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Just reduced the asking price for my Tripp 33 and listed it here. Sorry to sell the boat but moving on to another chapter with my family. If anyone is looking for a good well equiped race boat it is ready to go in Whitby. Very competitive boat for boat with J109's and Benateau 36'7s.

bummer but i'm going to pass this on to someone who may have interest

great boat

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Just reduced the asking price for my Tripp 33 and listed it here. Sorry to sell the boat but moving on to another chapter with my family. If anyone is looking for a good well equiped race boat it is ready to go in Whitby. Very competitive boat for boat with J109's and Benateau 36'7s.

bummer but i'm going to pass this on to someone who may have interest

great boat

Thanks Jeff, It has always been fun racing against you guys.

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Any idea what the IRC rating maybe on the Tripp 33?

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Any idea what the IRC rating maybe on the Tripp 33?

I never had the boat rated as I only did one major regatta a year. Attached is an old IMS cert from the boat, I believe most of the measurements required for IRC are available on this cert.

IMS Cert.pdf

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Thanks,

I only found one listed, but it is modified with a 4ft sprit and an oversized kite, IRC it's 1.071 and PHRF 57.

With the retractable keel, it is the perfect for my location, and an awesome racer too, I just need to unload an IMX-38.

OHHHH the pressure!!! what to do, what to do??.

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LOSHRS weekend to Youngstown was amazing. Great sailing, dock party and people. Looking forward to the 100 miler!

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LOSHRS weekend to Youngstown was amazing. Great sailing, dock party and people. Looking forward to the 100 miler!

ya, that was a lot of fun. kinda nice not to be dfl.

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Kinda nice not to be drifting the entire time...

the entire time.

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Guys, what has happened to racing in Toronto...know it has been better part of 10 years since I last sailed there, but the fleet has shrunk....

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Especially with hot showers and cold beer only minutes away. Best of luck to all of them! I just don't like myself enough to spend that much time alone!

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Guys, what has happened to racing in Toronto...know it has been better part of 10 years since I last sailed there, but the fleet has shrunk....

Marcus. Some of the fleets have shrunk or disapeared entirely. The once strong C&C34 fleet is now racing handicap, either PHRF or IMS. The old IOR, then IRC and now IMS consists of various types of boats but very few, if any, one off's. Beneteau's, Farr's, J-Boats and a few other bigger builders make up most of the "rating" fleets. The J-24's are still pretty much keeping to themselves but come out to some of the larger regattas. The J-105's are sort of the same and do their own thing mostly. The club regatta series is now only 5 clubs, ABYC, RCYC, PCYC (this weekend btw), EYC and QCYC.

What is new is the short handed and double handed series run by PCYC. The have point to point races and are mostly weekend events. The Lake Ontario 300 is becoming more and more popular and is similar to what you would have known as the LOI. LYRA keeps going and this year it is being hosted by ABYC. I have no idea what is happening on the south shore but most of the big boats from Rochester or Sodus come across the lake and race with us here. The only fleet that has shown consistant numbers, and some growth, is the 8-Metre's. We now have 6 moderns racing on the lake, and possibly 9 classics that could appear on a starting line. (usually 5 or 6 are there every weekend) There are some others in various states of repair and could be on the water sometime in the future (with a lot of work)

Very few of the boats that you used to race on, and then race against, are around anymore. I guess there are other things to do besides sail... but I dont know any. Hope all is well.

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Hey Thisbe,

 

I would suggest that the R fleet is a solid growing fleet that races for the Lipton Cup at LYRA every year. We have 4 boats being restored that should be online for next season which will put us at close to 10 boats in the fleet next year. There are 2 solid R's for sale in New England and another up in Nova Scotia. It's about time RCYC and RYC joined in on the fun.

 

LYRA13-B1947timwilkes.jpg

 

startline.png

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why don't you mention the new R boat that was built by Wiggers a few years ago? Building a new R boat is really something........and here the proponents of the genre either totally ignore it or don't know about it.......either way, an example of stunted growth.

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You got me there, I didn't know anyone had built a new R boat anytime recently.

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The black boat R 13 in those photos posted above is Gypsy, the first boat out of the mould at Wiggers. The second boat was Renegade, it was bought as an unfinished hull by a lawyer from Detroit, who had it finished in Detroit. The mould then went to Allan Nye Scott in Belleville who built the third boat Diana of Hastings in the early 1990's. Diana of Hastings is now called Archer it is R 15, and is just visible in the second photo above.

Did I miss an R boat from Wiggers?

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One small error. Renegade was in fact finished completely at Wiggers.

To the best of my knowledge it is the last R boat built at Wiggers, and it was launched before 1991.

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Renegade is now called Arrow and is sailed out of the Detroit river. There have been a few cold moulded mahogany hulls built over the past few years though and Shadow R58 is being rebuilt that way right now preserving only the lead. She'll be joining our fleet next year. Ace was rebuilt this same way in Seattle and may be joining us next year as well as Lady Van out of Vancouver. The R Class has never been more popular than it is currently and the class has a major presence and a major history on lake Ontario. Also there's no handicapping we sail boat for boat.

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And back in Oakville we've resurrected the J/27...Fleet of 7 in the water & one on the hard being restored/refurbished plus possibly another new owner showing up this year. Added a total of 3 more to the Lake Ontario fleet in 2014 and have hosted the NAs at OYS for the last 3 Years...10 boats the first year, 16 last year and we expect 15~20 this August.

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Racing is alive and well on Toronto, it may not be what it was a decade or two ago, however there is plenty available if you want it, and there is no lack of good competition either.

This past weekend at the PCYC regatta IRC had 27 boats, One Design fleets with 46, and half a dozen in PHRF.

 

And let's not forget LYRA at ABYC at the at end of month, with a up to 3 offshore races and a weekend regatta, promises to be a great time.

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Thanks guys.

 

Good to see a strong J27 fleet, lovely boat.

 

Thisbe - all is well, just Fcning hot out here at the moment and wondering what to do sailing wise, was thinking of a Carkeek 40 or something of that nature, but not really great in Dubai as like Toronto few new boats. Just don't have the time and budget to do all the Asian regatta's which are probably some of the best sailing locations to bring the family and friends to...maybe it is time to try and find Owl or another old 1/2 tonner and do the Euro 1/2 ton events...morty beat me out on Sbubble...and must say he did a much better job than we would have restoring her!

 

Was planning to spend more time in Toronto in the summer next year...Tazo is an orphan here and would be even more so in Toronto...will need to find another toy or just focus on some of the short handed, distance races...

 

Doesn't seem to be a fleet of 40 something performance boats racing...

 

Tks

MKF

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MKF,

If you are back in Toronto make sure you give me a shout. As for sailing in the GTA, you're right in that it isn't what it used to be but then again there are very few areas where the sport is growing. I haven't sailed in a race since 2010 and am currently boatless..... but looking. The problem is that there is no clear direction what to buy right now if you want to race OD. The J/24 fleet is nowhere near what it used to be. J/105's appear to have grown marginally from a few years ago but it remains very much an RCYC boat. I suspect the NA's have something to do with the growth so it will be interesting to see what happens next year. Melges 20's enjoyed some growth a few years ago but sounds like the fleet has plateaued since then and I heard few of the owners moved into J/70's. A performance orientated 40 footer is dead money in my opinion. There are very few individuals with the capital and desire to get involved in something like that and there exists a limited number of programs to race against. Was down at the Oakville Club last night and Oakville harbour is just a sad place for a racing sailor. It's turning into a graveyard of designs from 30+ years ago and none of them go out sailing. The J/27's are the only bright spot in Oakville. There is a chance that the J/70 gets some traction as RCR sold a ton of them south of the border. I hope a fleet builds up here. J/88 also holds some promise as RCR sold 5 and they will be getting their own start at the new Youngstown event. People just have less discretionary income to plow into sailing these days. Same issue with golf, private clubs are just getting killed in North America for the same reason. Anyways, hopefully something changes in sailing soon, would love to get back out on the water. Let me know when you're in town.

JCL

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MKF,

If you are back in Toronto make sure you give me a shout. As for sailing in the GTA, you're right in that it isn't what it used to be but then again there are very few areas where the sport is growing. I haven't sailed in a race since 2010 and am currently boatless..... but looking. The problem is that there is no clear direction what to buy right now if you want to race OD. The J/24 fleet is nowhere near what it used to be. J/105's appear to have grown marginally from a few years ago but it remains very much an RCYC boat. I suspect the NA's have something to do with the growth so it will be interesting to see what happens next year. Melges 20's enjoyed some growth a few years ago but sounds like the fleet has plateaued since then and I heard few of the owners moved into J/70's. A performance orientated 40 footer is dead money in my opinion. There are very few individuals with the capital and desire to get involved in something like that and there exists a limited number of programs to race against. Was down at the Oakville Club last night and Oakville harbour is just a sad place for a racing sailor. It's turning into a graveyard of designs from 30+ years ago and none of them go out sailing. The J/27's are the only bright spot in Oakville. There is a chance that the J/70 gets some traction as RCR sold a ton of them south of the border. I hope a fleet builds up here. J/88 also holds some promise as RCR sold 5 and they will be getting their own start at the new Youngstown event. People just have less discretionary income to plow into sailing these days. Same issue with golf, private clubs are just getting killed in North America for the same reason. Anyways, hopefully something changes in sailing soon, would love to get back out on the water. Let me know when you're in town.

JCL

 

Interestingly enough I have it on good authority that a 9th J27 will be joining the Oakville Fleet in a week or so (working on a 10th boat). We seem to have the boats, owners and anyone in Oakville still wanting to race is moving to the 27...the issue now is crew and time for people...not like old days when there were kids everywhere scrambling to get on a decent ride. We have the boats...getting them to the start line is our new challenge.

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Sincerely miss the "Old Days" racing on Lake Ontario. Boy did I have fun..

Been back a few times now and its definitely not the same.

Looking into the Crystal Ball, i'd expect the J/70 class to grow as more and more are becoming disenchanted with the J/24 class and are looking for the old one-design thrill but who knows..

Still, the Open Regattas seem to have a good draw (The parties are another thing)

 

Stu

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ABYC............how do you get the fecal matter off your hull ? And the stench........bleah.

They have this product called Depend that may help you prevent this problem. Perfect for old assholes that can no longer keep shit inside them.

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ABYC............how do you get the fecal matter off your hull ? And the stench........bleah.

They have this product called Depend that may help you prevent this problem. Perfect for old assholes that can no longer keep shit inside them.

Actually your family called to say you meant to say "Depends" but the seniltiy stops them from telling you.....keep them up and tight old man.

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Over 80 boats registered so far and a few days to go yet.

Great entertainment line up too, ABYC has put a ton work into this and it's shaping up to be a fantastic weekend.

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Over 80 boats registered so far and a few days to go yet.

Great entertainment line up too, ABYC has put a ton work into this and it's shaping up to be a fantastic weekend.

i'm looking forward to it

ABYC has done very well with this, including the modified format. I hope people are watching.

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LORC Participants' Meeting

As the LORC regatta host clubs are starting to think about the 2015 LORC events we would like to hear from you, the skipper and crew!


Your LORC Executive will be holding the Annual Participants' Meeting to hear from you about what you liked best about the 2014 LORC events, and what you would like to see implemented for the 2015 season. This will be held at NYC Chart Room on November 27, 2014 at 7:30 p m

The Participants' Meeting will be followed immediately by the LORC Annual General Meeting. All participants are welcome to remain for the AGM, but remember that only your club's designated representative can vote on individual items.


The AGM will start at 8:30 on November 27, 2014 at NYC Chart Room. The AGM agenda and minutes for the 2013 AGM have already been distributed to the clubs.

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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all Lake Ontario sailors.

 

To all those who have gone to fiddlers green:

 

Sunset and evening star
And one clear call for me!
And may there be no moaning of the bar,
When I put out to sea,

But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
Too full for sound and foam,
When that which drew from out the boundless deep
Turns again home.

Twilight and evening bell,
And after that the dark!
And may there be no sadness of farewell,
When I embark;

For though from out our bourne of Time and Place
The flood may bear me far,
I hope to see my Pilot face to face
When I have crossed the bar.

 

Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809-1892)

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LORC AWARDS PRESENTATIONS for 2014.
Where: National Yacht Club
When: Wednesday, January 21 starting at 6:00 p.m.

Complimentary beverage for those who RSVP by January 19th to:
416-260-8686 ext 32 or reception@thenyc.com

post-23164-0-54990500-1420993829_thumb.jpg

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It can't come soon enough!!!

 

Reminder....LORC Awards tomorrow 6pm at NYC.

 

And stay tuned for info on LORC pub nights in February and March. A wonderful opportunity to get together with fellow racers at a local club.

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Check the palm trees in the background - ain't local that's for sure

 

Spotted that. And the terra cotta rooves as well...

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"LORC Pub Night" Wednesday, March 11 at ABYC.

Please join us for a social evening with fellow sailors, refreshing drinks and fine food. Skippers, crew, guests and friends are all welcome. This is a great opportunity to get together and hear the tales from those fortunate enough to have raced south this winter, who's doing what next summer and more so, catch up with the many friends that we haven't seen this very cold winter. Come and recruit some new crew, promote your class, or just hang out and share a laugh like we do at our regattas.

ABYC has an excellent menu, and terrific staff. 6-10pm.

Looking forward to fun night, hope to see you there.

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Daydreaming of Spring and Sailing...

We just can't make it through these long cold winters without talking to pals and competitors about SAILING, so LORC is introducing a monthly pub get-together.

 

We'll be moving around from club to club, but we will begin, as does the regatta season, with the first at Ashbridge's Bay Yacht Club. So...

 

LORC Participants Pub Night - Wednesday, March 11, 2015

 

The Lake Ontario Racing Council (LORC) will be holding a series of 'Pub Nights' at select member clubs across the GTA as a lead up to the start of the 2015 racing season. The first event will be held at ABYC on Wednesday March 11th starting at 6:00 PM.

This is a great opportunity to get together and hear tales from those fortunate enough to have raced this winter. Learn who's doing what this coming summer and catch up with friends that you haven't seen for some time. Come and recruit some new crew, hang out and share a laugh like we do at our regatta and generally renew the excitement associated with inter-club racing. Please mark this night in your calendar. The beer will be cold and the chicken wings will be hot!

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The next LORC Pub Night could wel be a Thursday night in mid April at The National.

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LORC 2015 Regatta registration is now open. Sign up for the season and save 10%. NOR is also available on the LORC website.

May 23-24 ABYC Open Regatta,
June 20-21 RCYC Open Regatta,
July 4-5 PCYC Open Regatta,
Aug. 29-30 EYC Open Regatta,
Sept. 12 QCYC Open Regatta.

 

http://www.lorc.org/

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The next LORC PUB NIGHT will be held on Thursday April 16 at The National Yacht Club. Hope to see you there.

 

I'm also seeking a foredeck person for the upcoming LORC season, the boat is an IMX-38, we have very decent results, and an awesome crew. Previous experience appreciated.

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So I discovered this evening when I went to the LORC site to register that ABYC Open "Regatta" this year is not running a full, two-day series of races for PHRF boats. Instead they are running a single "coastal race" on the Saturday only. This isn't worth the time, effort and resources to commit either of our boats to. This is unfortunate (we really enjoyed this regatta in past years), but there is not much we can do about it. Last year RCYC also moved to this format, reserving the actual racing for one-design and IRC boats. This is a worrying trend.

Perhaps LORC should drop the pretense and only run races for OD and IRC boats?

The only "Open" that seems to get a reasonable number of PHRF boats is QCYC.

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Coastal Race format is bullshit designed to bring in participation by pandering to the lower skill sailors. Offer it, sure, just like the orr offshore courses at Chicago regattas but don't kill the competitive W/L race just to do it.

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Coastal Race format is bullshit designed to bring in participation by pandering to the lower skill sailors. Offer it, sure, just like the orr offshore courses at Chicago regattas but don't kill the competitive W/L race just to do it.

Last year the PHRF fleet was 3 white sail boats - this might increase participation.

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Coastal Race format is bullshit designed to bring in participation by pandering to the lower skill sailors. Offer it, sure, just like the orr offshore courses at Chicago regattas but don't kill the competitive W/L race just to do it.

Last year the PHRF fleet was 3 white sail boats - this might increase participation.

 

 

So I discovered this evening when I went to the LORC site to register that ABYC Open "Regatta" this year is not running a full, two-day series of races for PHRF boats. Instead they are running a single "coastal race" on the Saturday only. This isn't worth the time, effort and resources to commit either of our boats to. This is unfortunate (we really enjoyed this regatta in past years), but there is not much we can do about it. Last year RCYC also moved to this format, reserving the actual racing for one-design and IRC boats. This is a worrying trend.

 

Perhaps LORC should drop the pretense and only run races for OD and IRC boats?

The only "Open" that seems to get a reasonable number of PHRF boats is QCYC.

 

The move is designed to try and help boost the PHRF participation. I think 2 years ago, they even killed off the PHRF fleet entirely. The entry into IRC can be daunting for someone with a Catalina 30 who wants to participate in his home clubs regatta. This gives him a low entry point, more relaxed race, and they get to enjoy the party at the end of the day with everyone else. One day makes it easier to secure crew commitments and is a good start for many people. The W/L is not killed off. You get two full days of it for the IRC and OD classes. Recently, (last 5 years), there has been very little to no PHRF participation at these events. Generally only 4-5 boats tops. RCYC rally race had a good handful, and seemed to be a success (barring the RC f'up). So rather than continuing to bang their heads against the wall, they are doing something to try and promote the racing. If you want to do W/L racing you can get an IRC rating, it is not that difficult, John is enthusiastic and willing to help you get measured or a temp rating. There have been a surprising number of smaller boats getting certs.

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