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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
zeyang

boatbuilding

846 posts in this topic

Ze:

I really like that Bruun design also. I'm not wild about the generous radius on the stem though. I like bows that cleave the water and don't push the water. Lapworth, Tripp Sr. and Chance did quite a few bows with big radii on the stems. It was easy to laminate but I think the designs of today show that it's not fast. When I see a boat moving along and shooting a big plume of water straight up the stem I think "wasted energy".

 

 

 

 

I agree totally about your wasted energy. so I got some sleepless night trying to avoid my flat 15 cm bow, if i can make it down to 5 cm radii it would be much better and still look like a traditional wooden boat bow.

 

 

 

 

 

Where exactly are you?

 

 

 

 

 

My plan was to build this boat with cheap labour in china (china is my second homecountry) but for different reason i had to move the whole project up to Norway, where  I found even cheaper labour. (myself)  :-)

 

When boat is finished it will sail back to middle kingdom (Yantai)

 

Building boats in your backyard in china is almost unheard of, so my reference is Norway. It was quite normal to make your own boat 30 years ago.  but along the way, people got lazy or rich (or both) and stopped doing this. I dont know anyone doing this in their backyard now. 

 

Its a little sad, cause young guys which is neither lazy or rich cant really find an environment where he/she can learn the tricks of trade and get a little push in the beginning. Boatbuilding is not that difficult, its mostly extremely timeconsuming. I spent hundreds of hours trying to figure out to read designers drawing and learn the lofting part. If I could have sat down and talk with a professional loftsman it would saved me lots of time.

 

Ive been reading S.S Rabl, Chapelle and a few other books about boatbuilding, and i must say, its not easy for an amateur to really grasp all that lofting stuff. When you can come to the real building part (in wood, metal or grp) its kind of easier. its mostly about problem solving and sleep on things which seems tricky

 

zeyang 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

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Ok...let me see if I get this straight..

 

You are a chinese guy who has figured out how to read design specs and loft, but moved to Norway because people like to build boats in their backyards out of aluminum using a wood design by yourself because you couldn't find cheap labor in China? :blink:

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Ok...let me see if I get this straight..

 

You are a chinese guy who has figured out how to read design specs and loft, but moved to Norway because people like to build boats in their backyards out of aluminum using a wood design by yourself because you couldn't find cheap labor in China? :blink:

 

Couldnt be closer! :-) except im not born chinese. i have same blue eyes and blond hair as you.

 

zeyang.

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haha..OK...i have shit brown eyes and shit brown hair, but I get it! Not everyone was the captain of the football team :rolleyes::P

 

How'd you end up in China & now Norway? Did you grow up there (China)?

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haha..OK...i have shit brown eyes and shit brown hair, but I get it! Not everyone was the captain of the football team :rolleyes::P

 

How'd you end up in China & now Norway? Did you grow up there (China)?

 

I got there by pure accident and fell in love with this strange country. its a little hate/love affair. China has endless possibilities but also endless problems for foreign devils.

 

I dont know if yachting will ever be popular in china but I really hope. They have a long coastline and my big dream is sailing  all the way from vladivostok and down to the vietnam border. But i havent even figured if its even possible due to red tape. 

 

There is this saying: Give chinese a sailboat, and you never see him again :-) Sofar i have seen maybe 1 or 2 sailboats. Even the sailing mecca Qingdao has hardly any boats. But among 1.3 billion chinese there must be a market someday. They really love everything western.

 

zeyang

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Boatshed in the night. 

 

Merry christmas to all of you and wish you happy new year!

 

zeyang

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Boatshed in the night.

 

Merry christmas to all of you and wish you happy new year!

 

zeyang

 

Where's all the twinkly lights? ;)

 

Merry Christmas from the left side of North America.

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haha..OK...i have shit brown eyes and shit brown hair, but I get it! Not everyone was the captain of the football team :rolleyes::P

 

How'd you end up in China & now Norway? Did you grow up there (China)?

 

I got there by pure accident and fell in love with this strange country. its a little hate/love affair. China has endless possibilities but also endless problems for foreign devils.

 

I dont know if yachting will ever be popular in china but I really hope. They have a long coastline and my big dream is sailing  all the way from vladivostok and down to the vietnam border. But i havent even figured if its even possible due to red tape. 

 

There is this saying: Give chinese a sailboat, and you never see him again :-) Sofar i have seen maybe 1 or 2 sailboats. Even the sailing mecca Qingdao has hardly any boats. But among 1.3 billion chinese there must be a market someday. They really love everything western.

 

zeyang

 

 

if you ever lack inspiration, get a copy of "south sea vagabonds".............author johnny rae, he did smilar to you but during the depression and in New Zealand, boat is still circling and very recently for sale ( circling as in circumnavigation)

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if you ever lack inspiration, get a copy of "south sea vagabonds".............author johnny rae, he did smilar to you but during the depression and in New Zealand, boat is still circling and very recently for sale ( circling as in circumnavigation)

thanks,

 

 

 

 

Ill try to fetch that south sea vagabonds. Never seen that one before.

 

The Ice Bird book I already have, thanks. I think Lewis also have few other good books.but i havent read them yet.

 

Btw. By last count, I found i have more than 300 sailing books stacked in boxes waiting for the boat to finish. Ive  probably just read less than 1/3. Rest is saved for long and boring nightwatches. Really look forward to read them all. Nothing is nicer than reading sailingbooks under a sparkling sky with wind from astern and boat is slowly moving across the sea.

 

zeyang

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not exactly sailboat, but at least building. im impressed with this guy with really modest financial resources he managed to build a oneman submarine out of steeldrums possible to dive to 10 meter. since there is no sea around BJ he is testing his project in a canal.

 

this is extremely lowcost project.

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzM5NDY4ODQ=.html

 

zeyang

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Had 2 guys and a girl helping the last 3 days, but unfortunately it is so cold outside (-29C) so we gave up working in the shed and went inside to do some rig-design instead. Working with metal in freezing cold is no fun. It easily rip the skin from our fingers. 

 

by the way, that girl is a boatbuilder by profession. Good to have onboard :-)

 

got some time in evening to sit in front of the stove and dream about a warm pacific island :-)

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Had 2 guys and a girl helping the last 3 days, but unfortunately it is so cold outside (-29C) so we gave up working in the shed and went inside to do some rig-design instead. Working with metal in freezing cold is no fun. It easily rip the skin from our fingers. 

 

by the way, that girl is a boatbuilder by profession. Good to have onboard :-)

 

got some time in evening to sit in front of the stove and dream about a warm pacific island :-)

pics or it didn't happen ;)

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Had 2 guys and a girl helping the last 3 days, but unfortunately it is so cold outside (-29C) so we gave up working in the shed and went inside to do some rig-design instead. Working with metal in freezing cold is no fun. It easily rip the skin from our fingers.

 

by the way, that girl is a boatbuilder by profession. Good to have onboard :-)

 

got some time in evening to sit in front of the stove and dream about a warm pacific island :-)

pics or it didn't happen ;)

 

 

Zeyang, that means we want to see pictures of the boatbuilding girl! ;)

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wops. forgot the picture.

 

lets see if works now.

 

zeyang

post-37445-1262956434_thumb.jpg

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one more thing,

 

is there any french cruising forums worth trying to find some french people who might be interested in this boatbuilding/sailing-coop?

 

 

 

 

French seems to be fond of longdistance sailing and ive seen quite a few homemade french boats around. 

 

 

 

 

anyone reading french boating forums???

 

 

 

 

zeyang

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wops. forgot the picture.

 

lets see if works now.

 

zeyang

 

which one's the girl, the one with the moustache?

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wops. forgot the picture.

 

lets see if works now.

 

zeyang

 

which one's the girl, the one with the moustache?

 

Classy.

 

:lol:

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one more thing,

 

is there any french cruising forums worth trying to find some french people who might be interested in this boatbuilding/sailing-coop?

 

 

 

 

French seems to be fond of longdistance sailing and ive seen quite a few homemade french boats around. 

 

 

 

 

anyone reading french boating forums???

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

Hi Zeyang,

No doubt about the French interest in & commitment to ld cruising.

There are a few questions though about the French national character & their enthusiasm for co-ops.

 

Tell us, les Anglophones, more about your co-op ideas.

What might be the financial, labour & social investments you are looking for?

 

Any special criteria in mind for potential applicants eg, humour (Monty Python, Mr. Bean, Steve Martin, Sacha Baron Cohen enthusiasts), politics (Mao, Chou En Lai, Sun Yat Sen, De Gaul, Churchill, Lenin bio readers), female pulchritude (Sophia Loren, Marilyn Monroe, Eva Gabor, Brigitte Bardot, appreciators), great writers (Dostoevsky, Cervantes, Conrad, readers), or age related criteria (no one who has ever heard of any of the fore mentioned persons vs ipod, mp3 users who cannot participate in a conversation & have never read a newspaper)?

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 we are gearing up. 

 

6 people are coming for next weeks to help weld up the finish part and  flip the boat.....

 

It seems couchsurfing forum is _the_ place to look for people, not on sailing forums... strange....

 

installed more bunkbeds on farm. Will recycle this bunks into boat at later stage. One room for girls and one room for guys.. I dont take any chance mixing male/females in same room :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

post-37445-1263327623_thumb.jpg

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One room for girls and one room for guys.. I dont take any chance mixing male/females in same room :-)

 

What could go wrong? :lol:

 

Don't you know the first rule as skipper is to keep your crew happy?

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One room for girls and one room for guys.. I dont take any chance mixing male/females in same room :-)

 

What could go wrong? :lol:

 

Don't you know the first rule as skipper is to keep your crew happy?

:-) I know what could go wrong. they start chasing eachother instead of building boat :-)

 

 

when boat is finished i have no space to have separate rooms onboard, and by the way - the boat is then finished and i dont need to worry too much  as long as they keep their night-watch :-)

 

 

zeyang

 

the strict aunt!

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bump!

 

How's it going Zeyang?

 

 

Me too.

Are you still working on the farmhouse accommodations & constraints?

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bump!

 

How's it going Zeyang?

 

 

Me too.

Are you still working on the farmhouse accommodations & constraints?

 

sorry. been busy preparing for flipping the boat and weld up the seams.. have 4 people helping me last 2 weeks. logging 150 hours a week now so making good progress.

 

have people from bulgaria, canada, sweden and germany so its quite international these days. 

 

still 60 hours welding up the seams so hopefully only 2 weeks away from seeing the boat rightside up.

 

zeyang

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zeyang...thanks for the update...get one of those peeps to take some pics!

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Any babies yet?

no idea. but havent seen any yet. 

 

 

 

 

 

Being busy working on flipping the boat. its a little slow but the boat slowly rise on its own keel.

 

zeyang 

post-37445-1266524521_thumb.jpg

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True, Glass boats on the other hand.........

 

Frozen snot, but nice frozen snot, sometimes.

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just for the record. welding up the laps took me 83 hours. and probably more than 150 hours just for cleaning and brushing them. thankfully i got help during this stage else i will still been working on this. 

 

flipping is probably one more week. then its time to start welding the seams inside and swap those wood frames with alloy. then put in deckframes and start welding up the deck. 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

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This gets my award also as the absolute best thread on Sailing Anarchy. An inspiring and admirable project. An intellectual expert craftsman gaining and sharing input from other boat builders around the world. This is Sailing Anarchy at it's finest. Thanks Ze for introducing us to this great project. May we see your exploits at the ends of the world come to fruition someday in a boat built for eternity. Living the Dream! I love it.

 

 

And that quote from Fatty Goodlander from awhile back, is just the best.

 

 

Cheers Ze and smooth sailing in all things.

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This gets my award also as the absolute best thread on Sailing Anarchy. An inspiring and admirable project. An intellectual expert craftsman gaining and sharing input from other boat builders around the world. This is Sailing Anarchy at it's finest. Thanks Ze for introducing us to this great project. May we see your exploits at the ends of the world come to fruition someday in a boat built for eternity. Living the Dream! I love it.

 

 

And that quote from Fatty Goodlander from awhile back, is just the best.

 

 

Cheers Ze and smooth sailing in all things.

 

 

tnx for your nice comments :)zeyang

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then some more day to day pictures. 

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The term "great big brass ones" comes to mind, Zeyang... be careful. Is the shed strong enough to lower her down the other side, with come alongs from the top of the shed structure, or are you planning on jacks under the (now nearly horizontal) keel? Or both?

Just don't let anybody be brave and macho and foolish enough to get under her. If she decides to roll, being 20 years old and nearly invincible won't be enough to stop her. Slow, deliberate, and careful will win this battle... but it seems like that's the way you're appoaching it, so carry on.

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thanks, yes i try to take it very slowly and always have 2 backups. so if one breaks i will have a spare in case. 

 

chain hoist (2) from the roof then 4 poles underneath. im not sure about that roof. it was never constructed for lifting a boat, but sofar its still holding. 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

post-37445-1267174042_thumb.jpg

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

Well done zeyang! Jumping the gun here but what interior layouts have you been working on?

 

Will Museler

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

Well done zeyang! Jumping the gun here but what interior layouts have you been working on?

 

Will Museler

really no idea yet, but i was thinking of the simple oldfashion original style with the woodstove and everything :-)

 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

not related to the flipping stage but,

a guy told me about a funny boatbuilding cartoon strip.

 

anyone have this cartoon strip of a wife having christmasdinner with the kids while the husband is out in the boatshed building on his boat?

 

I would love to print out that cartoon strip and put it on the wall in the boatshed.:-)

 

 

zeyang

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

Well done zeyang! Jumping the gun here but what interior layouts have you been working on?

 

Will Museler

really no idea yet, but i was thinking of the simple oldfashion original style with the woodstove and everything :-)

 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

not related to the flipping stage but,

a guy told me about a funny boatbuilding cartoon strip.

 

anyone have this cartoon strip of a wife having christmasdinner with the kids while the husband is out in the boatshed building on his boat?

 

I would love to print out that cartoon strip and put it on the wall in the boatshed.:-)

 

 

zeyang

If you are looking for suggestions I am sure we can get the WLYDO up and running. Unsolicited advice, Drawings and 3D renderings are our specialty!

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

Well done zeyang! Jumping the gun here but what interior layouts have you been working on?

 

Will Museler

really no idea yet, but i was thinking of the simple oldfashion original style with the woodstove and everything :-)

 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

not related to the flipping stage but,

a guy told me about a funny boatbuilding cartoon strip.

 

anyone have this cartoon strip of a wife having christmasdinner with the kids while the husband is out in the boatshed building on his boat?

 

I would love to print out that cartoon strip and put it on the wall in the boatshed.:-)

 

 

zeyang

If you are looking for suggestions I am sure we can get the WLYDO up and running. Unsolicited advice, Drawings and 3D renderings are our specialty!

I think you WLYDO guys will find this interior extremely boring to make in 3D. :-)

post-37445-1267193763_thumb.jpg

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

Well done zeyang! Jumping the gun here but what interior layouts have you been working on?

 

Will Museler

really no idea yet, but i was thinking of the simple oldfashion original style with the woodstove and everything :-)

 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

not related to the flipping stage but,

a guy told me about a funny boatbuilding cartoon strip.

 

anyone have this cartoon strip of a wife having christmasdinner with the kids while the husband is out in the boatshed building on his boat?

 

I would love to print out that cartoon strip and put it on the wall in the boatshed.:-)

 

 

zeyang

If you are looking for suggestions I am sure we can get the WLYDO up and running. Unsolicited advice, Drawings and 3D renderings are our specialty!

I think you WLYDO guys will find this interior extremely boring to make in 3D. :-)

 

Where does the stripper pole go!!!

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 some daily pictures last week.

 

zeyang

 

post-37445-126787141292_thumb.jpgpost-37445-126787152035_thumb.jpgpost-37445-126787153065_thumb.jpgpost-37445-126787150881_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

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and the last helper. busy thinking about some construction solutions....

post-37445-12678716486_thumb.jpg

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Excellent progress zeyang..thanks for the pics. Keep up the good work.

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boat in upright position. Time to move on to put in frames. 

post-37445-126817075191_thumb.jpg

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2 more pics

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I am surprised by how fair the lines are on this boat - WELL DONE!!!

 

Dumb question - the opening in the back of the keel - is that for a to-be-accomplished ballast pour?

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Well Done Zeyang! She looks fantastic the lines are nice and from the pictures look very fair along its length. How are you going to bend the frames and what kind of framing are you using?

 

Will Museler

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wow! that is freakin' awesome!

 

this thread is one of the best on the whole damn internet.

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2 pics from last week. 

 

working on welding up inside the boat. have removed the 3 middle frames but see that sheerstrake is pushing inwards so need to reinforce temporary.  (will change all wooden structure with 60x60x6 mm t-bars. 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-37445-126842202709_thumb.jpg

post-37445-126842205268_thumb.jpg

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some more flipping pics

 

zeyang

Well done zeyang! Jumping the gun here but what interior layouts have you been working on?

 

Will Museler

really no idea yet, but i was thinking of the simple oldfashion original style with the woodstove and everything :-)

 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

not related to the flipping stage but,

a guy told me about a funny boatbuilding cartoon strip.

 

anyone have this cartoon strip of a wife having christmasdinner with the kids while the husband is out in the boatshed building on his boat?

 

I would love to print out that cartoon strip and put it on the wall in the boatshed.:-)

 

 

zeyang

If you are looking for suggestions I am sure we can get the WLYDO up and running. Unsolicited advice, Drawings and 3D renderings are our specialty!

I think you WLYDO guys will find this interior extremely boring to make in 3D. :-)

 

 

Don't know about that. You've got the right hat at least! And the floorboards could use some work. Other than that, I like this interior ;)

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monkeying around :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-37445-126881430047_thumb.jpg

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spent last week working on welding up the boat inside. its a little tricky but goes forward slowly. Maybe manage to weld up 1/4 of the inside sofar. Im working alone now due to easter holiday coming up,so itts a little more slow.

 

by the way. that lamp is a optimus/petromax. Its hardly use any kerosene and gives light similar to 350 candles. Will be the future of lighting up the boat. Extremely clever system.

 

zeyang

 

 

post-37445-126901031812_thumb.jpg

 

 

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spent last week working on welding up the boat inside. its a little tricky but goes forward slowly. Maybe manage to weld up 1/4 of the inside sofar. Im working alone now due to easter holiday coming up,so itts a little more slow.

 

by the way. that lamp is a optimus/petromax. Its hardly use any kerosene and gives light similar to 350 candles. Will be the future of lighting up the boat. Extremely clever system.

 

zeyang

 

 

post-37445-126901031812_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Zeyang,

 

Does the lantern have a kerosene smell? How does it compare to a Coleman burning white gas?

 

286A700T_500.jpg

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Ze:

Get off your ass an get back to work.

We are all waiting to see the finished boat.

 

Yesss. Sirr!!

 

 

 

 

 

:-)

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

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Zeyang,

 

Does the lantern have a kerosene smell?  How does it compare to a Coleman burning white gas?

 

 

 

 

Yes. It smells some. But since i also use a kerose stove i kind of accept it. i just keep the kerosene stove close the hatch.

 

(i willl mount a small led-light in every bunk to keep people with reading light, the kerosene pressurelamps is above dinnertable)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cant get everything Its easier to store some hundred litres of  kerosene onboard, than propane.

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-37445-126902216151_thumb.jpg

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welding up the stern of the boat. alloy is a little soft so i have to use gravity to feed the wire from the feeder. not the most clever system, but it kinda work. 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

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welding up the stern of the boat. alloy is a little soft so i have to use gravity to feed the wire from the feeder. not the most clever system, but it kinda work.

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

 

 

You really need to clearcoat the interior, it would be incredible with black lacquer and varnished cherry.

 

 

B)

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- Let go the anchor!

 

post-37445-126946362587_thumb.jpg

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I think the welding dust must be getting to our friend Zeyang. :lol:

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220, 221. Whatever it takes.

 

"You want a beer?"

 

"It's 7 o'clock in the morning!"

 

"Scotch?"

 

laugh.gif

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This is insane but in a really really cool way.

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Is that a chick in a welding mask? If so, that's kinda hot.

 

If not. Nevermind.

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The cooling in the keel idea has been used by Brent Swain, the 'origami' steel boat designer & builder in BC.

Lots of additive to prevent rust & corrosion & I'm told it works well.

The weight is definitely an issue, but you get it midships & fairly low.

 

 

Yes, I have had no problems with the skeg cooled engine in my 36' steel Brent Swain, some other people with this system have had a little trouble getting the air lock out of the system but after that it's fair sailing (motoring actually). I use a 50:50 mix in my coolant no special additive to prevent corrosion other than what's in the antifreeze already. The dry exhaust is nice too just wrap it with 3+ layers of fibreglass exhaust tape and put a flexible coupler in close to the engine to absorb vibration from the engine carrying it's way along the exhaust pipe to the deck/hull. Of course with an aluminium housing for your coolant you may have to use the antifreeze designed for aluminium blocked engines rather than the standard antifreeze, worth looking into anyway.

A really interesting project with a lot of welding but I've always found aluminium welding a lot of fun since you get to move so damn fast. The swain hulls are kinda designed to limit the amount of welding needed on the hull so this is kinda opposite to that but very neat.

My boat's also spray foam insulated which is really nice, and with aluminium's lack of corrosion I would imagine it be even better used there. The foam gives the hull quite a surprising bit of stiffness too.

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Zeyang, do you have any idea, how much the hull weighs at this stage, and with the frames proper installed. How will it compare to wood and fiberglass if you had built to equivalent scantlings.

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Zeyang, do you have any idea, how much the hull weighs at this stage, and with the frames proper installed. How will it compare to wood and fiberglass if you had built to equivalent scantlings.

i have used 10 plates, each of 280 kg.

 

 

then probably 100-150 kg of weld 

 

then frames is 200 kg

 

then deck is around 600 kg (?)

 

So maybe 3700 kg for bare hull. 

 

I think im a bit heavier than fibreglass and a bit lighter than wood, (im using 8 mm, with 2cm overlap, 1.6 cm in keel which is probably a bit stronger than what you will find in a massproduction alloy boat)

 

so i need more ballast to compensate for this, but thats ok. 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

 

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In my opinion, you have a much stronger hull than what a production builder would be aiming for, using fiberglass or wood. Or in other words you would have a heavier hull using these materials for the same overall strength. Am i wright?

Which ever way you look at it, you have a heavy hull than what you would normally have. So why do you think you need more ballast. Do you think the original design is still heavier than what you have?

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In my opinion, you have a much stronger hull than what a production builder would be aiming for, using fiberglass or wood. Or in other words you would have a heavier hull using these materials for the same overall strength. Am i wright?

Which ever way you look at it, you have a heavy hull than what you would normally have. So why do you think you need more ballast. Do you think the original design is still heavier than what you have?

I really havent calculate the ballast i need - but i know the excact waterline from the original drawing, but the seatrail will tell me what is correct. 

 

The origial drawing is from 1907 and there is a rough sketch telling it should be around 2000 kg iron in the keel, which i find way too light than what i expect, compare to other 12 meter colin archers made with wood. 

 

But im not a professional. I learn as I go. Time will tell how much lead i need to stuff into the keel.

 

 

 

 

Some of these CA was quite heavy with inner skin also.. maybe that makes those boat quite heavy.. Problem with all these drawings, Archer never left a detailed description, only the drawings. rest was up to the shipwright at the yard.

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

 

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Damn designers, always leaving the detailes to the builder.

 

Ze:

One w3ay or another you are going to have to ballast the boat to get it down to it's designed sailing trim. If not the boat will be too tender.

I suspect you will end up with a ballast to displ ratio of around 36%, maybe 38%. That's a guess.

 

What is the designed displ?

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Nice work Zeyang. I've peeked in one this from time to time when I'm not turning perfectly good wood into sawdust on Oh Joy. I really like the lapped look in aluminum.

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Very cool.  You may want a bigger hook though when you go cruising?

Yes. I think so :-)

 

 

 

 

 

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So does the lighter weight men you can have larger fuel & water tanks (filled mostly)..to help the ballast ?

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So does the lighter weight men you can have larger fuel & water tanks (filled mostly)..to help the ballast ?

 

both fuel and water can be used as ballast if i manage to make the tanks low in the boat.

 

 

engine is another good ballast also.

 

then ofcourse lead. 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

 

 

 

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Damn designers, always leaving the detailes to the builder.

 

Ze:

One w3ay or another you are going to have to ballast the boat to get it down to it's designed sailing trim. If not the boat will be too tender.

I suspect you will end up with a ballast to displ ratio of around 36%, maybe 38%. That's a guess.

 

What is the designed displ?

 

I have no good answer to displacement really. But maybe i can guess by look at others of approx same type. I think displ wouth be around 20 tonns, so i need to do some sea-trails to get a feeling.

 

ingrid (12.2 meter) had 1262 kg outside and 3000 kg inside

 

cape georg 36 feet: ballast: 4800 kg

 

bristol ch: (34 feet) 3000 kg ballast

 

CA-105: 10.33 meter Ballast: 2100 kg(?)

 

Direction:  10.05 meter.  3000 kg

 

Kurun. 10.05 meter: 1870 kg.

 

westsail 32. ballast: 3178 kg

 

LehgII 31.6 feet:  7700 pound. 

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

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Very cool. You may want a bigger hook though when you go cruising?

Yes. I think so :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of bait do you use on that thing???

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  • This is my all time favorite thread. I respect your spirit and your individuality. I own two aluminum boats both out of 5086 one 42 ft ,one 44 ft. I have a sea chest in each and can highly recommend them, but for antifouling make them large enough to work inside. All so you have a great oppurtunity to install a false bottom in your keel to have both an efficent and trouble free keel cooling system without external fitments, great against the high lattitude growlers best of luck I cant wait for more

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Ze:

If you post your general dimensions I think I can work out a reasonable displ.

Could you post the hull lines?

I can do it without if I have to.

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Your great Bob, it's folks like you that keep me coming back to SA cruisin. Good of you to offer to help Z out.

 

Ze:

If you post your general dimensions I think I can work out a reasonable displ.

Could you post the hull lines?

I can do it without if I have to.

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Ze:

If you post your general dimensions I think I can work out a reasonable displ.

Could you post the hull lines?

I can do it without if I have to.

 

Bob,

 

 

Many thanks.ill treat you a beer if I ever pass by your house when i start sailing.

 

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here is dimension

 

1177 cm long (from outside stern to bow) without rudder. 

 

430 cm wide 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ze:

If you post your general dimensions I think I can work out a reasonable displ.

Could you post the hull lines?

I can do it without if I have to.

Bob,

 

 

i tried to upload the 100 year old drawing here, but it didnt succeed so i sent it by email. :-)

 

again,many thanks.

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

 

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some more.its a little strange. from the drawing it specify 1580 kg. but i cant really believe it. I kind of think the boat will feel tender by only 1600 kg ballast when i compare to other boat of approx same size.  did the old master made a mistake?

 

 

 

 

zeyang

 

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some more.its a little strange. from the drawing it specify 1580 kg. but i cant really believe it. I kind of think the boat will feel tender by only 1600 kg ballast when i compare to other boat of approx same size. did the old master made a mistake?

 

zeyang

 

The original design may have included a significant amount of internal ballast.

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Ze:

I estimate that on the DWL shown on your drawings the boat should weigh:

31,392 lbs.

 

I think by the time you get the boat finished you will need around 10,000 lbs. of total ballast.

Maybe as little as 8,100 lbs. But I can't imagine less than that.

Of course that depends a lot upon just how you outfit the boat bu I think a B/D of around 32% qill be about right.

 

PS

Right after I posted that I was down making a pot of tea when It ocurred to me that I had seen thsoe basic dimensions and shape before and not just in articles on CA.

Sure I had. Back when I was 15 years old Bill Garden gave me a book of his designs. I still have the book now 50 years later.

Garden's SEAL is very close in every way to what you are building.

The construction is timber with very heavy scantlings.

In typical Garden style he omits the displ. but his drawings do show 8,100 lbs. of ballast.

 

Then while I was typing this it occurred to me that the Garden SEAL design with a modified deck was built in Taiwan as the GLOBE 38.

I checked on YachtWorld and there is a Globve 38 for sale. They list the displ. as 30,000

Given they list 30,000 lbs. ( they always list low) I think my intitial estimate of 31,392 lbs. is going to be quite close for you.

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Ze:

I estimate that on the DWL shown on your drawings the boat should weigh:

31,392 lbs.

 

 

I get 32,417 lbs...but Bob is pretty good at this stuff wink.gif

 

 

 

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