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Stingray

THE RETURN OF DOGZILLA

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Like with CZ, a thread for first photos and comment

--

 

06.07.2009 CET

BMW ORACLE Racing back on the water in San Diego.

 

BMW ORACLE Racing today launched their trimaran in San Diego as the team prepares to sea trial the 90-foot by 90-foot high-tech racing machine. The mast will be installed dockside and the boat will be load-tested before the huge multihull is tested by the crew in the waters off Point Loma.

 

"We are really excited to get out on the water," said helmsman James Spithill (AUS). "We still have plenty to do to complete sea trials and be ready for the America’s Cup in February so every day counts. It is only seven months until the America’s Cup so we are now in the home stretch."

 

BMW ORACLE Racing is the Challenger for the 33rd America’s Cup. The team will meet the Swiss Defender Alinghi in a best two-of-three head-to-head duel starting February 8. The venue for the competition will be named by the Defender by August 8.

 

The team will test the trimaran in San Diego this summer.

 

"This is cutting edge, extreme sailing. We look forward to testing how fast is fast," said Spithill.

 

 

2z4fq6g.jpg

 

k48hvk.jpg

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Wow! Great pics, thanks.

 

That sure is some "Turbo" kit.

 

The hulls look at least 20ft longer than the old ones.(?)

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LWL - ama rocker looks about the same so should float w/ a small LWL again.

 

Center Rudder - gone?

 

Bowspirt - tons on work on bracing it.

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Aft beam definately is more forward from the stern of the amas compared to v1

 

Or, alternatively speaking, the amas have either been moved or stretched aft.

 

Unless that is a new, shorter, center hull.

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Aft beam definately is more forward from the stern of the amas compared to v1

How long are those amas??? :blink:

 

Mo (or anyone) Do you remember how long that tent is?

 

Wow! Great pics, thanks.

 

That sure is some "Turbo" kit.

 

The hulls look at least 20ft longer than the old ones.(?)

Thanks - Thought I was going nuts there for a moment.

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Looks like a lot more attention to aerodynamic fairing. The center hull looks smaller, more vestigial, but that may be because the new amas are longer.

 

That mesh forward still has to create drag though, just like LeBlanc's under wires.

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Great photos. What a remarkable coincidence that it pops up at the exact time as the tent comes off CZ!

 

Or is it more psychological warfare? Looking to disturb any Swiss feelings of accomplishment...

If the latter, then it would have shown some tact to wait a day with the attempt at one-upsmanship.

 

I'd like to see them find a helicopter which is able to get this boat off the ground.

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Great photos. What a remarkable coincidence that it pops up at the exact time as the tent comes off CZ!

 

Or is it more psychological warfare? Looking to disturb any Swiss feelings of accomplishment...

If the latter, then it would have shown some tact to wait a day with the attempt at one-upsmanship.

Yeah, but the difference is BMWO will be sailing their second boat in a few days. The Swiss will still be trying to figure out how to attach a huge fucking mast for the very first time.

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Center Rudder - gone?

The center rudder is definitely gone. There aren't any control tubes there any more.

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Looks like a lot more attention to aerodynamic fairing. The center hull looks smaller, more vestigial, but that may be because the new amas are longer.

 

That mesh forward still has to create drag though, just like LeBlanc's under wires.

 

The sprit is definitely way different (and shorter). Ama sterns moved way back (or rear beam moved forward) and the rudder is suspiciously absent from the center hull although all the other foils are installed...looks like she lost that rudder for good.

 

Good earlier shot for comparison:

 

25933-90x90-bmw-oracle-trimaran-launched-90sail2b.jpg

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This boat seems designed to always be on a single hull except when tacking. If you draw a horizontal line through the transom of one of the amas the center hull is well clear of the water when the amas are level.

 

Were DZ1's amas that canted? LeBlanc's hull don't appear canted at all.

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The center rudder is gone for good, I think.

 

Rumors I've heard also suggest that they want to be able to sail without the daggerboard/"keel" except in situations where it will aid in maneuverability.

 

Are those banana boards longer than the previous ones?

 

My feeling is that this version has moved them much closer to the D35/WSL concept of hybrid cat/tri, rather than the traditional tri characteristics of DZ 1.0. It should fly the center hull much easier. If the banana boards are bigger, that would suggest they want to carry more of the pressure of the rig on the foil rather than through the buoyancy of the leeward hull. That should be significantly faster.

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Wow, can't wait to see her with the new rig up ! Amazing how much stronger BOR looks eh?

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Looks like a lot more attention to aerodynamic fairing. The center hull looks smaller, more vestigial, but that may be because the new amas are longer.

 

That mesh forward still has to create drag though, just like LeBlanc's under wires.

 

The sprit is definitely way different (and shorter). Ama sterns moved way back (or rear beam moved forward) and the rudder is suspiciously absent from the center hull although all the other foils are installed...looks like she lost that rudder for good.

 

Good earlier shot for comparison:

 

25933-90x90-bmw-oracle-trimaran-launched-90sail2b.jpg

 

The new sprit looks like a deeper socket for the male end. My guess is a longer sprit.

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""

The sprit is definitely way different (and shorter). Ama sterns moved way back (or rear beam moved forward) and the rudder is suspiciously absent from the center hull although all the other foils are installed...looks like she lost that rudder for good.

""

 

Well move it along a little bit further and saw the bottom of the main hull off and then what have you got?!

 

mind you, need to keep the main hull there to keep the 90' LWL bit in there, but now they have 100+ floats and length despite what Rolf is saying is rarely a bad thing....so I think that maybe Alinghi have missed a trick there.

 

Of course, CZ could always add in a vestigial floater main hull and extend the floats.....

 

Plot is thickening nicely!

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Looks like a lot more attention to aerodynamic fairing. The center hull looks smaller, more vestigial, but that may be because the new amas are longer.

 

That mesh forward still has to create drag though, just like LeBlanc's under wires.

 

The sprit is definitely way different (and shorter). Ama sterns moved way back (or rear beam moved forward) and the rudder is suspiciously absent from the center hull although all the other foils are installed...looks like she lost that rudder for good.

 

Good earlier shot for comparison:

 

25933-90x90-bmw-oracle-trimaran-launched-90sail2b.jpg

 

The new sprit looks like a deeper socket for the male end. My guess is a longer sprit.

 

Yes. My summary of the major mods they went for:

 

1. Wave piercing amas, placed further aft.

2. Allowance for a longer sprit.

3. MOFAM

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In Stingray's post #3 (who sent the shots?) there are two mystery holes visible on the top of the port hull.

 

Some new attachment points for secret weapons ? Forward of the main beam they've used the chainsaw and built new outrigger bows.

 

Anyone looking to build a cheap 35' cat from discarded autoclaved carbon parts? $200K hulls for less ? Contact Larry@Oracle.com

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Looks like a lot more attention to aerodynamic fairing. The center hull looks smaller, more vestigial, but that may be because the new amas are longer.

 

That mesh forward still has to create drag though, just like LeBlanc's under wires.

 

The sprit is definitely way different (and shorter). Ama sterns moved way back (or rear beam moved forward) and the rudder is suspiciously absent from the center hull although all the other foils are installed...looks like she lost that rudder for good.

 

Good earlier shot for comparison:

 

25933-90x90-bmw-oracle-trimaran-launched-90sail2b.jpg

 

The new sprit looks like a deeper socket for the male end. My guess is a longer sprit.

 

Yes. My summary of the major mods they went for:

 

1. Wave piercing amas, placed further aft.

2. Allowance for a longer sprit.

3. MOFAM

 

These pic shows the bow end of the bowsprit is a deeper socket.

 

http://i29.tinypic.com/6ymowj.jpg

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Looks like a lot more attention to aerodynamic fairing. The center hull looks smaller, more vestigial, but that may be because the new amas are longer.

 

That mesh forward still has to create drag though, just like LeBlanc's under wires.

 

The sprit is definitely way different (and shorter). Ama sterns moved way back (or rear beam moved forward) and the rudder is suspiciously absent from the center hull although all the other foils are installed...looks like she lost that rudder for good.

 

Good earlier shot for comparison:

 

25933-90x90-bmw-oracle-trimaran-launched-90sail2b.jpg

 

The new sprit looks like a deeper socket for the male end. My guess is a longer sprit.

 

Retractable / adjustable sprit ?

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Good earlier shot for comparison:

Still trying to pick my jaw back up from off the floor, geez that was sudden! Blackburn, those were all GMR shots.

 

Using this one for comparison first:

 

post-17804-1246911991_thumb.jpg

 

may be easier, depending your screen

 

2l89mjr.jpg

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At the moment (and who knows what turns up tomorrow) it looks like a french version of a D35 against an optimalized Swiss LeBlack.

 

We know how that turns out e ceteris paribus. The BOR guys aren't done with their mods by a long shot.

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It looks like they will be able to play the cant angle of curved boards. There is a huge opening at the deck. Was that there in DZ1?

 

2r5pwli.jpg

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I suspect these amas will display significantly less twist now that they extend further aft and the bows have gone on a diet.

The torsional stiffness of a multihull comes from the rig. The mast works in compression with the forestay and sidestays in tension. Notice how CZ has a vestigial mast with wires coming off of it?

 

DZ twisted because of how the mast was canted. The side stay pulled the back of the windward hull up.

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I wonder if they are going to put a rudder back on the center hull?

 

 

BRO-

GOOD QUESTION

 

I ZOOMED IN ON ONE OF THE FOTOS POSTED BY ? WHO PROVIDED THEM ?? -THANKS

 

IT LOOKS LIKE THE CENTER/MAIN HULL HAS SOME HARDWARE NEAR TRANSOM

 

IT [ RUDDER] MIGHT GO ON WAY AFT - SO WE SEE

 

FRGING WICKED BOAT -- NICE CHANGES/ IMPROVMENTS --GREAT JOB ON THAT PROJECT TO ALL INVOLVED--

 

 

 

 

E BERTARELLI -- MUST HAVE TOTAL SHRINKAGE AT THIS POINT--LOL

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F'n awesome. This AC is gonna be OFF THE HOOK BATSHIT CRAZY FAST. :D

 

 

+1 I love it. Larry, can I have it when you are done? I call dibbs.

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Rumors I've heard also suggest that they want to be able to sail without the daggerboard/"keel" except in situations where it will aid in maneuverability.

 

How will that fly when the whole "Keel Yacht" argument is brought up again? You know it will be...

 

My first impressions, well I only have one that hasn't been brought up yet by someone else, looking at the one good photo of DZ's undercarriage it would appear the central hull is thiner. The old hull looked like it flaired (I know there is a more technical word to use then "flaired" but I can't think of the fucker) up at the top. This one doesn't seem to do that. Almost seems like it is designed to spend as little time as possible in the water.

 

And the bowsprit rig is braced up big time. Looks like it will hold a seriously long pole. And whats the deal with the metal framing above where the pole would go into the bowsprit holder? Is it shaped like that to facilitate better control of loose sheets? Or a big "Oh Shit" handle?

 

Please forgive my general ignorance in regards to boat design jargon. It has been a long day. :blink:

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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In Stingray's post #3 (who sent the shots?) there are two mystery holes visible on the top of the port hull.

 

Some new attachment points for secret weapons ?

 

Those would be the CCM’s (Celebratory Containment Modules), better known as beer coolers. No doubt the BOR boy's will want a few cold one's as they cross the finish line ahead of the swiss cat.

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Rumors I've heard also suggest that they want to be able to sail without the daggerboard/"keel" except in situations where it will aid in maneuverability.

 

How will that fly when the whole "Keel Yacht" argument is brought up again? You know it will be...

 

 

Cahn ruled that BOR's certificate was clear. Alinghi didn't appeal. They can't go back and raise it again.

 

That issue is dead.

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After looking a bit more, I think the beams and center hull are pretty much the same. The big difference is the missing center rudder and the new amas.

 

The new amas look like better hull shapes, plus no center rudder and using the centerboard (keel?) less will reduce drag.

 

Still has grinder stations. I'm guessing we will hear more about the engine on Alinghi 5. I don't like it, but is this the first shot in having active controls on top racing boats, like the F1 cars and their active suspensions?

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I'm sure its fast, but daaaayum is that an ugly tri... errr cat.. errr.. whatever the hell it is.

 

CheeseZilla definitely wins the beauty contest I'm afraid. DZ1 was gorgeous.

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Yes. My summary of the major mods they went for:

 

1. Wave piercing amas, placed further aft.

 

I think they are a LOT longer rather than placed further aft?

 

Look at the pic taken square across the bow.

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In Stingray's post #3 (who sent the shots?) there are two mystery holes visible on the top of the port hull.

Some new attachment points for secret weapons ?

Those would be the CCM’s (Celebratory Containment Modules), better known as beer coolers. No doubt the BOR boy's will want a few cold one's as they cross the finish line ahead of the swiss cat.

:lol:

That is the best (and only) explanation at this point, no matter who crosses first!

Close examination has turned up nothing like it on Alinghi's boat...

But perhaps their beers will not have any similar time to warm up?

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What is missing from before?

post-19259-1246913806_thumb.jpg

 

White SLAM sticker?

 

Oh and the bottom of the keel looks different than the original. Doesn't it?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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I'm sure its fast, but daaaayum is that an ugly tri... errr cat.. errr.. whatever the hell it is.

 

CheeseZilla definitely wins the beauty contest I'm afraid. DZ1 was gorgeous.

 

Eye of the beholder of course...I find them both sexy.

But DZ way more interesting looking too me, now more than ever.

Dig the 'bird of prey' thing.

 

Besides, you can't really compare a sailboat to a motorboat :P

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Yes. My summary of the major mods they went for:

 

1. Wave piercing amas, placed further aft.

 

I think they are a LOT longer rather than placed further aft?

 

Look at the pic taken square across the bow.

 

I agree, I think they are longer and maybe a touch thinner, but that may be due to the piercing bow design.

 

Only mods I see to the center hull are the sprit work and the rudder being gone. That rudder was out of the water mostly anyway so why not reduce drag by getting rid of it. Probably put there for starters, and with those long hours down Mexico way, they probably figured a few things out.

 

Buisiness is picking-up, going to be interesting for a while as these two come together and start testing before shipping to the match.

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What is missing from before?

post-19259-1246913806_thumb.jpg

 

White SLAM sticker?

 

Oh and the bottom of the keel looks different than the original. Doesn't it?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

'was thinking maybe 'USA' will go there.

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In Stingray's post #3 (who sent the shots?) there are two mystery holes visible on the top of the port hull.

Some new attachment points for secret weapons ?

Those would be the CCM’s (Celebratory Containment Modules), better known as beer coolers. No doubt the BOR boy's will want a few cold one's as they cross the finish line ahead of the swiss cat.

:lol:

That is the best (and only) explanation at this point, no matter who crosses first!

Close examination has turned up nothing like it on Alinghi's boat...

But perhaps their beers will not have any similar time to warm up?

Boy those BMWO guys think big, the CCM's seem to be sized to hold entire kegs. "Fuck cup the holders boys we're going for kegs". "Jimmy, could you throw in a tack the stbd keg has run dry?"

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'was thinking maybe 'USA' will go there.

 

Nah. They will put "USA" on the back near the central hull me thinks.

 

And here are some cool old DZ shots for comparison:

 

awai2x.jpg

 

f0vtwj.jpg

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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23w72ok.jpg

 

Zoom close, that rudder is gonzo.

 

Looks like the back is open too, or is that just my eyes? :blink:

 

In the overhead shot before being lifted, in the lower right next to the port stern it looks like Kostecki standing there in his flip-flops (go-aheads on our boat)

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Bmw Oracle sure seem so much more open to photographs than Alinghi. These pictures blow away the pictures that came out of the Alinghi reveal. No sneaky angles, or only close in shots that don't let you see the whole thing in perspective. Still waiting to see a distance shot of Alinghi where you can actually see the whole boat.

 

JustinL42

 

 

BMWORNewRelaunch.jpg

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how do you figure that either of them are articulating??

bit pointless on boats this fast....not to mention the problem of getting luff tension in a off centre pole arrangment

 

 

Retractable / adjustable sprit ?

 

Articulating...just like A5

 

h

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with spithill standing beside him

 

23w72ok.jpg

 

Zoom close, that rudder is gonzo.

 

Looks like the back is open too, or is that just my eyes? :blink:

 

In the overhead shot before being lifted, in the lower right next to the port stern it looks like Kostecki standing there in his flip-flops (go-aheads on our boat)

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I'm sure its fast, but daaaayum is that an ugly tri... errr cat.. errr.. whatever the hell it is.

 

CheeseZilla definitely wins the beauty contest I'm afraid. DZ1 was gorgeous.

 

Eye of the beholder of course...I find them both sexy.

But DZ way more interesting looking too me, now more than ever.

Dig the 'bird of prey' thing.

 

Besides, you can't really compare a sailboat to a motorboat :P

 

Ernie, you Motor Boatin Son of a Bitch.........

 

30a5kqt.gif

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Meanwhile, back at the ranch, work continues:

post-19259-1246916927_thumb.jpg

They're not wasting any time.

 

Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

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Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

Of course they feel obligated to sail on Wednesday, trying to steal the thunder of Alinghi's launch.

Another masterful stroke in the PR-campaign. Let's keep score of how many 'spoiler events' they work into their calendar, in case it is all in vain.

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Meanwhile, back at the ranch, work continues:

post-19259-1246916927_thumb.jpg

They're not wasting any time.

 

Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

 

Impressive, how good the boat looks. Congratulations to any of you in the build, shore and sailing teams.

 

You really showed off, without even advertising it.

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Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

Of course they feel obligated to sail on Wednesday, trying to steal the thunder of Alinghi's launch.

Another masterful stroke in the PR-campaign. Let's keep score of how many 'spoiler events' they work into their calendar, in case it is all in vain.

 

I see no evidence at all that they ever cared one iota about the Alinghi schedule. The boat was ready, days are precious, are you really suggesting they should have waited another 2 weeks for CatZilla to get the stick in? C'mon...

 

I am a little overwhelmed at all the photos we suddenly have, all the details to get into, it's overload like no other 3 days has been in a very long time. But both teams have excellent boats, when the doors opened just happened to coincide closely; just as I predicted 3 weeks ago before we even knew Alinghi's schedule; and three weeks before we saw BOR open their doors and smoothly go into the water and step another mast. It just worked out that way.

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I'm sure its fast, but daaaayum is that an ugly tri... errr cat.. errr.. whatever the hell it is.

 

CheeseZilla definitely wins the beauty contest I'm afraid. DZ1 was gorgeous.

 

Eye of the beholder of course...I find them both sexy.

But DZ way more interesting looking too me, now more than ever.

Dig the 'bird of prey' thing.

 

Besides, you can't really compare a sailboat to a motorboat :P

 

Ernie, you Motor Boatin Son of a Bitch.........

 

30a5kqt.gif

Can somebody please show me any real evidence of engines.

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In Stingray's post #3 (who sent the shots?) there are two mystery holes visible on the top of the port hull.

Some new attachment points for secret weapons ?

Those would be the CCM’s (Celebratory Containment Modules), better known as beer coolers. No doubt the BOR boy's will want a few cold one's as they cross the finish line ahead of the swiss cat.

:lol:

That is the best (and only) explanation at this point, no matter who crosses first!

Close examination has turned up nothing like it on Alinghi's boat...

But perhaps their beers will not have any similar time to warm up?

Bilge pump service hole?

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Surprised we haven't seen a SNG rant about not having supplied a CHR yet. How long before they do ?

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I'm sure its fast, but daaaayum is that an ugly tri... errr cat.. errr.. whatever the hell it is.

 

CheeseZilla definitely wins the beauty contest I'm afraid. DZ1 was gorgeous.

 

Eye of the beholder of course...I find them both sexy.

But DZ way more interesting looking too me, now more than ever.

Dig the 'bird of prey' thing.

 

Besides, you can't really compare a sailboat to a motorboat :P

 

Ernie, you Motor Boatin Son of a Bitch.........

 

30a5kqt.gif

Can somebody please show me any real evidence of engines.

See if you can spot the exhaust pipe

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I'm sure its fast, but daaaayum is that an ugly tri... errr cat.. errr.. whatever the hell it is.

 

CheeseZilla definitely wins the beauty contest I'm afraid. DZ1 was gorgeous.

 

Eye of the beholder of course...I find them both sexy.

But DZ way more interesting looking too me, now more than ever.

Dig the 'bird of prey' thing.

 

Besides, you can't really compare a sailboat to a motorboat :P

 

Ernie, you Motor Boatin Son of a Bitch.........

 

30a5kqt.gif

Can somebody please show me any real evidence of engines.

 

Uhhhh.......SimonN.....you better go check Phillipe's pics, you can see the housing with the muffler exposed, plain as day.

 

The 'caboose', as I call it.

 

edit: see post 67 above.

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Can somebody please show me any real evidence of engines.

 

umm...what's this?

post-19259-1246918543_thumb.jpg

I understand there also may be a recording of it running, which may or may not surface. Anyway, I'm sure it will run in three weeks when they get the boat in the water.

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Surprised we haven't seen a SNG rant about not having supplied a CHR yet. How long before they do ?

 

 

YEAH BRO - I POSTED THAT QUESTION TOO-

 

SNG IS ASHAMED TO BE ASSOCIATED- WITH BERTARELLI AND THAT DEATH TRAP = JET SKI RAMP DOCK / SWIM PLATFORM

 

HELL I DONT BLAME THEM--LIKE I SAID ITS A TROJAN HORSE ---WITH OUT THE TROJAN SOLDIERS = PARADE FLOAT-

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Well, there are better photos of DoGz2 than of LeBlanc at this moment. It seems in looking at the amas, most of the profile is the same except for the forward, wave piercing section. The aft section appears the same in shape as before. Did they modify the amas or build new ones. It is clear that these conform with that brief glimpse that we caught earlier this month. I think that both boats are great achievements and cannot wait to see which one is faster, which one more manueverable and which one wins. It is hard to choose which one looks better, but initially the cat seems more elegant in looks. Still cannot wait for these two 2 meet.

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Can you show me grinder pedestals on CZ..?? I have no idea on engines - but where the dudes gonna be that have to make the winchies go round..?? Also, it's an awful long way up/down those tramps to get back into whatever position CZ peep be using for grindage if there be no power.... Hydrogen fuel cells anyone, compressed air maybe..?? Not many tacks needed - just top up at the dock, good for the day - just no tacking duels.... At least on DZ v1 n v1.1 the boys be on the central hull and don't have to move anywhere....

 

Oopsies - there be an engine above. Air cooled something in there. What air cooled engine are made in Cheezeland - Rotax..??

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Surprised we haven't seen a SNG rant about not having supplied a CHR yet. How long before they do ?

 

 

YEAH BRO - I POSTED THAT QUESTION TOO-

 

SNG IS ASHAMED TO BE ASSOCIATED- WITH BERTARELLI AND THAT DEATH TRAP = JET SKI RAMP DOCK / SWIM PLATFORM

 

HELL I DONT BLAME THEM--LIKE I SAID ITS A TROJAN HORSE ---WITH OUT THE TROJAN SOLDIERS = PARADE FLOAT-

 

Well, they are going to parade it around the lake.

 

Not sure if they'll need 'Trojans' though.......................

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Oopsies - there be an engine above. Air cooled something in there. What air cooled engine are made in Cheezeland - Rotax..??

 

I'm guessing a deutz air cooled diesel

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OKJ, I hadn't seen the picture of the exhaust. Thanks for pointing it out.

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Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

Of course they feel obligated to sail on Wednesday, trying to steal the thunder of Alinghi's launch.

Another masterful stroke in the PR-campaign. Let's keep score of how many 'spoiler events' they work into their calendar, in case it is all in vain.

I see no evidence at all that they ever cared one iota about the Alinghi schedule. The boat was ready, days are precious, are you really suggesting they should have waited another 2 weeks for CatZilla to get the stick in? C'mon...

I am a little overwhelmed at all the photos we suddenly have, all the details to get into, it's overload like no other 3 days has been in a very long time. But both teams have excellent boats, when the doors opened just happened to coincide closely; just as I predicted 3 weeks ago before we even knew Alinghi's schedule; and three weeks before we saw BOR open their doors and smoothly go into the water and step another mast. It just worked out that way.

In that case, today's little schedule collision will not be repeated Wednesday (competing internet events). I don't think they needed to wait two weeks, but they could have let Alinghi unwrap their boat without those affectatious theatrics in San Diego at the same time.

 

RC is steering this end of things, I suppose, and he is taking the 'no prisoners' line. That will be tiresome if it goes on for another 8 months.

 

The relaunch of DZ on this particular day is a coincidence ? You don't see an iota of evidence in that ?

 

There must have been concern in BOR that the unveiling of the Swiss boat would appear hot enough to make them appear the underdog. God forbid. As if the pre-race expectations really make all that much of a difference (or perhaps they do, re. how much money is freely spent on the campaign).

 

Vrolijk makes a comment on the question of who is watching who, in the Zurich interview:

Q: Es ist nicht ausgeschlossen, dass Oracle seit dem März daran ist, ein zweites Mehrrumpf-Boot zu bauen, diesmal möglicherweise auch einen Katamaran. Macht Sie das nervös?

RV: Die Amerikaner reagieren immer. Wir machen das nicht, wir verfolgen unser Konzept. Wenn wir falsch liegen, dann haben wir wenigstens versucht, das Optimale aus dem Konzept rauszuholen. Man kann nicht mitten in einer bestimmten Entwicklung wechseln, das ist ein falscher Ansatz.

Q: Sie beobachten aber Oracle, oder?

RV: Wir haben Oracle beobachtet, logischerweise, wir mussten ihr Konzept begreifen, aber seit Dezember haben wir keine Leute mehr hingeschickt. Wir konzentrieren uns nur auf uns und schauen nicht, was die anderen machen.

 

Q: It's not unlikely that Oracle has been building a second multihull since March, and then similarly a catamaran. Does it make you nervous?

RV: The Americans are always responding to developments. We don't do that, we follow our concept. If we are on the wrong track then we have at least tried to make the most of the concept. One cannot in the middle of a given process change course, that is the wrong approach.

Q: But still you keep an eye on Oracle, don't you?

RV: Of course we observe Oracle, since we have to understand their concept. But as of December we have not sent any more people over there. We concentrate on what we ourselves are doing and don't obsess on what the others are up to.

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/sport/aktuel..._1.2897460.html

 

...But of course the BOR team has not got a catamaran, yet. And everyone thinks the Swiss boat looks pretty good. BOR is going to have a tough job figuring how to build a catamaran which is better thought out.

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Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

Of course they feel obligated to sail on Wednesday, trying to steal the thunder of Alinghi's launch.

Another masterful stroke in the PR-campaign. Let's keep score of how many 'spoiler events' they work into their calendar, in case it is all in vain.

I see no evidence at all that they ever cared one iota about the Alinghi schedule. The boat was ready, days are precious, are you really suggesting they should have waited another 2 weeks for CatZilla to get the stick in? C'mon...

I am a little overwhelmed at all the photos we suddenly have, all the details to get into, it's overload like no other 3 days has been in a very long time. But both teams have excellent boats, when the doors opened just happened to coincide closely; just as I predicted 3 weeks ago before we even knew Alinghi's schedule; and three weeks before we saw BOR open their doors and smoothly go into the water and step another mast. It just worked out that way.

Vrolijk makes a comment on the question of who is watching who, in the Zurich interview:

Q: Es ist nicht ausgeschlossen, dass Oracle seit dem März daran ist, ein zweites Mehrrumpf-Boot zu bauen, diesmal möglicherweise auch einen Katamaran. Macht Sie das nervös?

RV: Die Amerikaner reagieren immer. Wir machen das nicht, wir verfolgen unser Konzept. Wenn wir falsch liegen, dann haben wir wenigstens versucht, das Optimale aus dem Konzept rauszuholen. Man kann nicht mitten in einer bestimmten Entwicklung wechseln, das ist ein falscher Ansatz.

Q: Sie beobachten aber Oracle, oder?

RV: Wir haben Oracle beobachtet, logischerweise, wir mussten ihr Konzept begreifen, aber seit Dezember haben wir keine Leute mehr hingeschickt. Wir konzentrieren uns nur auf uns und schauen nicht, was die anderen machen.

 

Q: It's not unlikely that Oracle has been building a second multihull since March, and then similarly a catamaran. Does it make you nervous?

RV: The Americans are always responding to developments. We don't do that, we follow our concept. If we are on the wrong track then we have at least tried to make the most of the concept. One cannot in the middle of a given process change course, that is the wrong approach.

Q: But still you keep an eye on Oracle, don't you?

RV: Of course we observe Oracle, since we have to understand their concept. But as of December we have not sent any more people over there. We concentrate on what we ourselves are doing and don't obsess on what the others are up to.

Didn't have to send anyone there since they were already there? :)

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OKJ, I hadn't seen the picture of the exhaust. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

But are you still willing to defend someone who shows up to a sailboat race with a boat having a motor? Even you, thick as you are, couldn't defend that - right?

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Yep, these boys don't play around, they get right to it. Would not be surprised if that thing is sailing by Weds.

Of course they feel obligated to sail on Wednesday, trying to steal the thunder of Alinghi's launch.

Another masterful stroke in the PR-campaign. Let's keep score of how many 'spoiler events' they work into their calendar, in case it is all in vain.

I see no evidence at all that they ever cared one iota about the Alinghi schedule. The boat was ready, days are precious, are you really suggesting they should have waited another 2 weeks for CatZilla to get the stick in? C'mon...

I am a little overwhelmed at all the photos we suddenly have, all the details to get into, it's overload like no other 3 days has been in a very long time. But both teams have excellent boats, when the doors opened just happened to coincide closely; just as I predicted 3 weeks ago before we even knew Alinghi's schedule; and three weeks before we saw BOR open their doors and smoothly go into the water and step another mast. It just worked out that way.

Vrolijk makes a comment on the question of who is watching who, in the Zurich interview:

Q: Es ist nicht ausgeschlossen, dass Oracle seit dem März daran ist, ein zweites Mehrrumpf-Boot zu bauen, diesmal möglicherweise auch einen Katamaran. Macht Sie das nervös?

RV: Die Amerikaner reagieren immer. Wir machen das nicht, wir verfolgen unser Konzept. Wenn wir falsch liegen, dann haben wir wenigstens versucht, das Optimale aus dem Konzept rauszuholen. Man kann nicht mitten in einer bestimmten Entwicklung wechseln, das ist ein falscher Ansatz.

Q: Sie beobachten aber Oracle, oder?

RV: Wir haben Oracle beobachtet, logischerweise, wir mussten ihr Konzept begreifen, aber seit Dezember haben wir keine Leute mehr hingeschickt. Wir konzentrieren uns nur auf uns und schauen nicht, was die anderen machen.

 

Q: It's not unlikely that Oracle has been building a second multihull since March, and then similarly a catamaran. Does it make you nervous?

RV: The Americans are always responding to developments. We don't do that, we follow our concept. If we are on the wrong track then we have at least tried to make the most of the concept. One cannot in the middle of a given process change course, that is the wrong approach.

Q: But still you keep an eye on Oracle, don't you?

RV: Of course we observe Oracle, since we have to understand their concept. But as of December we have not sent any more people over there. We concentrate on what we ourselves are doing and don't obsess on what the others are up to.

Didn't have to send anyone there since they were already there? :)

Smart-ass!

 

Similar subject, in Marian's piece

 

--

You went and watched BOR trialling and one imagines they’ll come and watch you. Where will they think your boat is better and where will they think they’ve got an edge?

 

Murray Jones: Well it’s actually quite difficult to accurately monitor performance when you’re just observing from another boat. Apart from that, I don’t know the answer, because we don’t know what their modified boat, or new boat, is going to be.

 

Do you think they might go for a catamaran?

 

Murray Jones: I’ve no idea. We haven’t focussed on them very much at all. We decided on our concept way back in November 2007 and we’ve focussed on making our boat as quick as we can for a windward leeward course. We’ve focussed all our efforts on our own boat and not worried too much about what they are doing.

--

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What's that white package up there on the steering platform?

 

Extra rolls of tp for the skipper??)

Awesome photos Stingray!

 

So what's it rate?

 

I mean what's it's waterline with amas and rudders further aft? Better still be 90ft.

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... one iota about the Alinghi schedule

My post went up a little before I had finished writing, sorry. There's a few comments in it now apart from the Vrolijk quotes.

This 'duelling unveilings' today is certainly not the fault of the Swiss.

I think BOR should show more class.

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What's that white package up there on the steering platform?

 

Extra rolls of tp for the skipper??)

Awesome photos Stingray!

 

So what's it rate?

 

I mean what's it's waterline with amas and rudders further aft? Better still be 90ft.

Shocking that we still don't know the loa of either boat with any certainty. Am leaning back now towards 110 on CatZilla but no idea yet DZ's. BOR never did announce M2's length but 165 has to be very close. Once we get a good side-on look, taken from a distance, it will help a lot. Haven't looked yet to see if the Google sat shot shows the parking stripes in the area south of the tent, that may help too?

 

On the photo's thanks for the thanks. It was a little effort downloading those big-size images and then up to tinypic. But credit goes all to GMR, they are posted here.

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... one iota about the Alinghi schedule

My post went up a little before I had finished writing, sorry. There's a few comments in it now apart from the Vrolijk quotes.

This 'duelling unveilings' today is certainly not the fault of the Swiss.

I think BOR should show more class.

 

I imagine both teams have been, and continue to be, working very hard on their projects. Timing could very well be just a coincidence. i mean you have a race in seven months. Would *YOU* slow down work to let the other guy have their day?

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... one iota about the Alinghi schedule

My post went up a little before I had finished writing, sorry. There's a few comments aside from the Vrolijk quotes.

This 'duelling unveilings' today is certainly not the fault of the Swiss.

I think BOR should show more class.

I thought the Alinghi boat was unveiled on Saturday and Sunday? I don't seen any one-upmanship here. Certainly the boat could have been ready for Friday or American Independence Day if BOR wanted to play silly games.

 

I'm glad both boats are out in the open and that we will soon see both of them sailing. The sooner the better.

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... one iota about the Alinghi schedule

My post went up a little before I had finished writing, sorry. There's a few comments in it now apart from the Vrolijk quotes.

This 'duelling unveilings' today is certainly not the fault of the Swiss.

I think BOR should show more class.

It's a fair comment but as others have pointed out - even people at Alinghi - time on the water is critical to both teams now.

 

You can't deny (timing aside) that the BOR rollout showed a lot of class in how good it looked, and how fast it was, and how little chest-pumping there was in the days leading up to it..

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You can't deny (timing aside) that the BOR rollout showed a lot of class in how good it looked, and how fast it was, and how little chest-pumping there was in the days leading up to it..

Had the Swiss then staged a simultaneous event to draw attention away from BOR, there would be a great gnashing of teeth in certain quarters.

But RC can set this up, and you don't have any second thoughts!

One of my objections to this is that it will look pretty stupid in hindsight to spent energy in this way, should the Swiss boat be faster.

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Murray Jones: I’ve no idea. We haven’t focussed on them very much at all. We decided on our concept way back in November 2007 and we’ve focussed on making our boat as quick as we can for a windward leeward course. We’ve focussed all our efforts on our own boat and not worried too much about what they are doing.

--

 

Does this mean that they will not worry about an ocean triangle?

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You can't deny (timing aside) that the BOR rollout showed a lot of class in how good it looked, and how fast it was, and how little chest-pumping there was in the days leading up to it..

Had the Swiss then staged a simultaneous event to draw attention away from BOR, there would be a great gnashing of teeth in certain quarters.

But RC can set this up, and you don't have any second thoughts!

One of my objections to this is that it will look pretty stupid in hindsight to spent energy in this way, should the Swiss boat be faster.

 

 

 

What will look stupid, and support your comments of "lack of class", is if BOR takes their time in getting DZ and the team out sailing. It was said in another thread they could be out sailing by the end of the week. If they dilly-dally and take their time, that might support some one-upmanship strategy. But again, I doubt it, both teams are on pretty tight schedules methinks.

 

I am hoping we will see DZ sailing by the end of the week. I WISH CZ would be sailing just as soon.

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