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bolt14706

Considering Buying a J105 - Pros and Cons

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Looked at a 2001 J105 in Marblehead this past weekend and am thinking about pulling the trigger. Looks to me like a good balance between short distance cruising with family and serious One Design Racing between Annapolis and Marblehead. Ita results the last few years have been bad but it did very well in Annapolis (boat won the 2003 NOOD).

 

Any body have any strong Pro's or Con's?

 

90k to 100k an appropriate price range?

 

Thanks

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Asking for advice on a J105 from this group is a risky proposition. But they are great boats for what you are proposing.

 

Good luck with the purchase and the responses on this thread.

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First reply before the 105 haters try and take over.

 

Good Points

 

Wonderful boat have owned mine for 5 years. I was UK based and raced it in the UK and France, OD, under IRC, inshore and offshore, full crewed and 2-handed. It's the boat of choice for corinthian 2-handed racing in the UK in longer races such as the Fastnet (600 miles). Wet but seaworthy (one just raced transatlantic solo)

 

It's a simple boat that's easy to get round the course and cruise at speed. It's stable and good in heavy air.

 

Lot's of choice of boats, well understood so lots of help should be available, consult class association

 

Strong OD in the US, very competitive at the front of the fleet

 

Excellent class association

 

Good cruising boat for day trips or weekends - with some older race sails left on the furler/boom you can be sailing in minutes.

 

Negatives

 

Sluggish in light air (5ish knots), especially upwind

 

No standing headroom, particularly a problem on longer cruises.

 

General

 

Price rage depends upon condition, there is a lot of choice so look around

 

Historic race record more dependent upon the crew than the boat, having said that be cautios of a total dog. Don't pay extra for a good record either.

 

My understanding is that most of the Annapolis boats have been converted to the standard keel from the shoal draft, for resale value avoid the shoal draft.

 

Check out Class Website and contact your local fleet captain before pulling the trigger.

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Assuming a reasonably fresh set of sails plus some older practice sails, decent electronics (not the old KVH's) and well-prepped bottom, that sounds like a reasonable deal. As long as the class stays together you should be able to get your money back out of it.

 

Oh yeah, per Jam, deep keel.

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Looked at a 2001 J105 in Marblehead this past weekend and am thinking about pulling the trigger. Looks to me like a good balance between short distance cruising with family and serious One Design Racing between Annapolis and Marblehead. Ita results the last few years have been bad but it did very well in Annapolis (boat won the 2003 NOOD).

 

Any body have any strong Pro's or Con's?

 

90k to 100k an appropriate price range?

 

Thanks

 

 

Partial check list of major items to verify (I'm betting others will chime in):

 

1. Hull number - pre-scrimp boats are up to about hull #150 or thereabouts and are generally faster. A 2001 hull may be in there.

2. Bottom faring - boats are notoriously in need of serious bottom work for racing (usually takes about $30k to get there here on the left coast).

3. Wheel or tiller - get what you prefer but tiller boats are generally winning more events.

4. Mast hook - many boats have a hook aft from the hounds up. This is usually due to jibing prestart without jib in high wind (think SF boats)

5. Sail tags available - what's been used and what's available (no worries if you're more cruise than race).

6. Boom bend - after lots of use and much vang sheeting the booms end up with a permanent set - may or may not be a problem

 

Pretty good boats - somewhat in the pig category but safe and easily raced by family and friends. Some programs are local and low key and others are all race all the time and pushed to the edge of the rules. They tend to come alive in 25 kts of breeze and up and are certainly safe in breeze into the mid to high 30s.

 

$90k - $100k may be alright but depends on your wants, what the boat is equipped with and the condition of things. If it were me I'd use the above list and anything else I could come up with to work the price down.

 

Good luck.

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Before you buy this boat as a family cruiser, get the family aboard one.

The interior comforts may be nowhere near what the wife would expecting from a boat that size.

OTOH great OD action.

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re: tizak

 

Bottom jobs are a US obsession (a vaild comment at many levels). To my knowledge not a single boat in Europe whether built in the US or France has ever had any hull work done for performance reasons.

 

The Mast and Boom comments are valid, in particular booms can fail where the vang joins as a result of stress from gybing with the vang on too hard ausing small cracks and then failure.

 

The boat is absolutely not a pig, it's lively and stable up and downwind in a blow in comparison to any other racer/cruiser. FYI I am now sailing on a Mumm 30 which is tender and complicated, I'd rather have my 105 but she's the other side of the world.

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Good boat, don't let anyone dissuade you. Lots of good reasons to get a 105, and they do seem to hold thier value prety well. Too, seemed like some really tricked out 105s can be had, meaning someone else spent thier $$$ to your benefit.

 

In the end though I got a bene 10R. A more recent (2006-2007) 10R will be faster w/much better accomodations for the same basic price as you indicated but will not offer OD racing.

 

If you go IRC the bene seems like a much better idea.

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Ive sailed in the class for a number of years and dont believe lower hull numbers are always faster, ive sailed on a few older hull numbers, and most of them are not as stiff as the most recent hulls. There are several boats in the 500 range that are very fast.

 

Also, a boat winning the NOODs in 2003 has little bearing on its ability to win now. If its been a dog the last few years, then it may not have been maintained well. There are plenty of 105s on the market to look at in that price range, so take a look at everything out there.

 

I think the 105 is a fantastic class to get into, the sail costs are reasonable for a boat this size, and the competition is fantastic in the mid-atlantic. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

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Would much rather have a beneteau 10R but it seems a trade off of cruising ability (comfort etc) against one design racing!

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re: tizak

 

Bottom jobs are a US obsession (a vaild comment at many levels). To my knowledge not a single boat in Europe whether built in the US or France has ever had any hull work done for performance reasons.

 

The Mast and Boom comments are valid, in particular booms can fail where the vang joins as a result of stress from gybing with the vang on too hard ausing small cracks and then failure.

 

The boat is absolutely not a pig, it's lively and stable up and downwind in a blow in comparison to any other racer/cruiser. FYI I am now sailing on a Mumm 30 which is tender and complicated, I'd rather have my 105 but she's the other side of the world.

 

Bottoms:

The 105 I race on had to have the keel replaced when new (as in right out of the box new to current owner 4 yrs ago) and was never right until complete faring about 18 mos. ago. The stbd side of keel near hull was wavey with about four 3 - 4 mm deep ridges about 20 - 30 mm long that created hills with soft tops and there were depressions at what seemed to be the cradle rest points that needed filling in. Also, the keel and rudder were not in line with each other fore and aft. Most of the good left coast boats have been fared and are faster than non-fared boats it seems - YMMV.

 

Pigginess:

A relative term. My opinion is that they are a bit sluggish. My frame of reference is is Melges 24s, Farr 40s, Farr 45s and a few other faster boats. I do like their performance when the wind picks up and enjoy SF Bay racing in bigger breezes. I live in So Cal and generally race in 8 - 15 kts between San Diego and Santa Barbara where I'd like a bit more go someahet fast. We really struggle when the breeze is less than 8 kts (suspect this is more a people issue than a boat issue as others we race OD against are faster).

 

That said, I think they're great boats. They fill a very real niche in a struggling boat market and have served a great number of people very well for a long time. Lots of fun and simple to deal with in generally very competitive OD fleets.

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I sail in this class, and think its a great class to sail in. Good competition in lots of areas and fleets are usually bigger than any other in the regatta. WLIS often gets close to or over 20 boats on the line for the usual weekend regattas. Just not Larchmont Race Week this year, though last year had 21.

 

That said, I cannot see how you would easily or comfortably cruise the boat. For racing, our is very bare, with just the cushions kept on per class rules, the owner has no interest in cruising. There is effectively no storage for all of the cruising gear and stuff you would want on the boat for a trip of say a week. Add to that the fact that I'm 6'2" and I can't say it would be my 1st choice to cruise on. Though as a dayboat it would be great.

 

I'd suggest trying to see how differently the racing and cruising boats are set up and you'll get a better idea of its abilities as dual purpose is. My feeling is its a ton of work to transition between the two. For a true crusier racer it seems to me there are better options, but its a fun boat to race. So the real question is what do you want to do with it.

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Much too civilized in here.

 

The question you need to ask yourself is, does it go DDW faster than TWS, & the answer is, unequivocally, hell yes.

 

:D

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Forgot - the thing has no rub rail!

For racing no BFD, but for cruising where you aren't anchored, trying to get in and out of slips with nasty old pilings and no full crew to wrestle the boat around with no contact is going to = creosote decorated boat :(

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They're a bit sticky in the light stuff - not sure why, but the J109 is far less sticky in the same conditions. I've seen several 105s on the hard in the past few years with separation at the keel-hull joint. They definitely go once the wind picks up.

 

pretty bare bones for a cruiser, depending on what stage of life you're in.

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I heard they can plane!!

 

Dammit... beat me to it.

 

I like racing J105s personally. Crewed on one for going on 4 seasons now. Cruising is a little iffy, but it's a great boat considering what you seem to be looking for.

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no bs, i heard the national association is considering hiring a full time repair guy to travel around in a van full of class legal parts, and fiberglass repair materials... this would mean at cost repairs for everyone!!!!!

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Wow. SA has changed.

 

Would anyone like more tea?

 

....or jam with their scones?

 

I can also prepare some cucumber sandwiches with the crusts cut off....

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PM some dude named "The Editor", I think he can set you straight on the many many benefits of the One Oh! Five?

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Any body have any strong Pro's or Con's?

Great OD if you like racing against marshmallows

 

 

and you own what OD boat??.............

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If a cruising/racing J is what you want, the 120 would work, albeit at more co$t. A Bene 36.7 is slightly faster, has a some good OD racing and has the cruising thing nailed, but I think they're a lot more work to sail. I mostly sail on a Bene but I would buy a J. There are characteristics that you can't quantify but definitely impact your enjoyment; like does the helm give you a smooth, linear response when sailing to weather or does it start out a bit on the numb side and suddenly load up if your mainsail trimmer isn't quick enough? The J designers got that stuff right. I should add that I'm an older guy and maybe that has someting to do with my preference. 20 years ago, I might have preferred someting sportier but with more effort involved.

 

Just one guy's $0.02.

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If a cruising/racing J is what you want, the 120 would work, albeit at more co$t. A Bene 36.7 is slightly faster, has a some good OD racing and has the cruising thing nailed, but I think they're a lot more work to sail. I mostly sail on a Bene but I would buy a J. There are characteristics that you can't quantify but definitely impact your enjoyment; like does the helm give you a smooth, linear response when sailing to weather or does it start out a bit on the numb side and suddenly load up if your mainsail trimmer isn't quick enough? The J designers got that stuff right. I should add that I'm an older guy and maybe that has someting to do with my preference. 20 years ago, I might have preferred someting sportier but with more effort involved.

 

Just one guy's $0.02.

 

You are saying a Bene 36.7 is fatser than a J120? Are you an idiot?

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If a cruising/racing J is what you want, the 120 would work, albeit at more co$t. A Bene 36.7 is slightly faster, has a some good OD racing and has the cruising thing nailed, but I think they're a lot more work to sail. I mostly sail on a Bene but I would buy a J. There are characteristics that you can't quantify but definitely impact your enjoyment; like does the helm give you a smooth, linear response when sailing to weather or does it start out a bit on the numb side and suddenly load up if your mainsail trimmer isn't quick enough? The J designers got that stuff right. I should add that I'm an older guy and maybe that has someting to do with my preference. 20 years ago, I might have preferred someting sportier but with more effort involved.

 

Just one guy's $0.02.

 

You are saying a Bene 36.7 is fatser than a J120? Are you an idiot?

 

Who are you calling an idiot? He said a 36.7 is slightly faster than a 105.

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Ok, so firstly, fuck off to the newbies!

 

Secondly, going fast. I usually point to the sailors when ANY boat 105 or any other is not going fast. Of course the 105 sucks in light air...ITS FUCKING LIGHT AIR!

 

Thirdly, the best argument for buying a 105 is for short-handed sailing,...in any breeze. Full crew going 8 to 10 kts is easy.

 

Finally, ...the second best argument for buying a 105 would be if you would like to acquire a tree-house.

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Anyone buying a J Boat is a big homo

 

 

it's good to know that when you finish H.S. and you land your dream job you won't go out and waste your money on a J Boat

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I know a couple who were in the channel in 40kts of wind and the A4 two handed they hit 22kts, that's enough proof for me. Someone won the RTIR in the uk with an overlapper in the 105 in light air

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I'm guessing the boat he's talking about is "Hooked on Tonics"...in Salem harbor. Nice boat, tiller (yes!) and pretty clean, but perhaps about ten large overpriced.

 

Scrim boats must have started before 2001. Mine is scrim, for better or worse, is a 2001, hull 304.

 

My favorite things about a 105 are easy of handling...snapping the jib in with one hand is pretty sweet...obviously the one design aspect, pretty decent sized asymetrical, tiller steering (HUGE), dacron main (much cheaper than plastic).

 

Bad news is the low head room, which I couldn't care less about, and the light air performance, which I do care about but live with.

 

Crusing? Not likely, but in our younger more foolish days we cruised our J/29, J/27, and J/33 on overnights. With enough recreational drugs on board a 105 could be just dandy, too. It's all relative. Hell, we've got a couple of J/30s in the harbor that go cruising extensively, some with their original owners (circa 1978) who are well into their 70's. Personally, I'd rather be tied naked to an ant hill. But I love sailing the boat.

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