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MR.CLEAN

Premiere Con Artist

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Had a chance to check out Premiere Racing's sponsor package and video today, and was amazed to find that they'd claimed "3000 sailors" take part in KWRW in their sponsorship package for 2010 Key West Race Week, and included a voiceover in the promo video that claimed they had "growing numbers" in recent years, that numerous classes make Key West a championship regatta, and so on.

 

There's one problem with these claims; they are outright lies. There were 156 BOATS at 2009 Key West Race Week this year. According to Key West's marketing crap, that means there were about 20 sailors on each boat. And Key West hasn't grown since, I think, 2003. In fact, the regatta has lost numbers every single year since then and is down over 50% from its high number of some 320 boats IIRC. This is across the board; big boats and little boats are both down sharply since the high numbers 6 years ago.

 

With Acura deserting both Key West and Miami as title sponsor, is Premiere simply so desperate for funds that its marketing department is prepared to simply fabricate numbers in an attempt to attract big money sponsors? Are they so arrogant as to think people won't check their claims?

 

If I didn't know better, I'd think that Premiere Racing was using the same marketing and PR folks that Alinghi and US Sailing use (see US Sailing thread to get the joke).

KeyWest_Sponsor_Intro_Pkg2010.pdf

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Maybe they can get Putin to hand out the Pickle Dishes.

 

That'd help, yeah?

 

EDIT - Kidding aside, let it go. Do you really just hate the guy or are you on the take with the Charleston Chamber of Commerce?

 

Sorry I missed you in NP. I had lunch with Be today and she enjoyed meeting you! :P

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Maybe they can get Putin to hand out the Pickle Dishes.

 

That'd help, yeah?

 

EDIT - Kidding aside, let it go. Do you really just hate the guy or are you on the take with the Charleston Chamber of Commerce?

 

Sorry I missed you in NP. I had lunch with Be today and she enjoyed meeting you! :P

I enjoyed it more. And look for a great 10 minute video interview with BR thanks to your suggestion.

 

As to your other comment; I WILL NOT LET IT GO. I spend most of my time reading about sailing and seeing how so many different people write, film, and promote their events, class and products. Almost every regatta overstates itself a bit. Whether just using the number of entries instead of the number of actual boats attending, overstating their media attention, or estimating high, it's as common as yelling at a leeward mark.

 

But there's a line. Last year, when the St. Pete NOOD writers from Sailing World wrote that "Nearly 200 boats" would be racing when it was something like 160 boats, that was over the line. It was a blatant lie, and a fraud on the sailing public and the media. This one makes that look like nothing. 3000 Sailors? Where the fuck did they get that number? How will potential sponsors look at the level of professionalism in the sport of racing when the people that run one of North America's biggest events comport themselves like this?

 

And how has Peter Craig taken the two most important winter regattas in NA and turned them into shadows of their former selves in just a few short years?

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Had a chance to check out Premiere Racing's sponsor package and video today, and was amazed to find that they'd claimed "3000 sailors" take part in KWRW in their sponsorship package for 2010 Key West Race Week, and included a voiceover in the promo video that claimed they had "growing numbers" in recent years, that numerous classes make Key West a championship regatta, and so on.

 

There's one problem with these claims; they are outright lies. There were 156 BOATS at 2009 Key West Race Week this year. According to Key West's marketing crap, that means there were about 20 sailors on each boat. And Key West hasn't grown since, I think, 2003. In fact, the regatta has lost numbers every single year since then and is down over 50% from its high number of some 320 boats IIRC. This is across the board; big boats and little boats are both down sharply since the high numbers 6 years ago.

 

With Acura deserting both Key West and Miami as title sponsor, is Premiere simply so desperate for funds that its marketing department is prepared to simply fabricate numbers in an attempt to attract big money sponsors? Are they so arrogant as to think people won't check their claims?

 

If I didn't know better, I'd think that Premiere Racing was using the same marketing and PR folks that Alinghi and US Sailing use (see US Sailing thread to get the joke).

 

Alan,

 

I like a lot of what you do with/for SA, but the hardon for Premiere is getting old.

It is one of the best events in the US, many many people enjoy it, and if they lost their sponsorship or otherwise were unable to run it, it would be a huge loss to the sailing community. I don't know Peter Craig, and don't really care one way or the other about how he gets his event organized/paid for. I do care that the event continues. I was one of many who skipped KWRW this year. It was 100% an economic decision. My missing KWRW had nothing to do with how the event is, or isn't run. Every single person I spoke with who is a KWRW 'regular' who did not attend this year said the same thing.

I suggest you focus your efforts on the OTW stuff, and perhaps, an upcoming pictorial on tits on Mackinac Island....

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Had a chance to check out Premiere Racing's sponsor package and video today, and was amazed to find that they'd claimed "3000 sailors" take part in KWRW in their sponsorship package for 2010 Key West Race Week, and included a voiceover in the promo video that claimed they had "growing numbers" in recent years, that numerous classes make Key West a championship regatta, and so on.

 

There's one problem with these claims; they are outright lies. There were 156 BOATS at 2009 Key West Race Week this year. According to Key West's marketing crap, that means there were about 20 sailors on each boat. And Key West hasn't grown since, I think, 2003. In fact, the regatta has lost numbers every single year since then and is down over 50% from its high number of some 320 boats IIRC. This is across the board; big boats and little boats are both down sharply since the high numbers 6 years ago.

 

With Acura deserting both Key West and Miami as title sponsor, is Premiere simply so desperate for funds that its marketing department is prepared to simply fabricate numbers in an attempt to attract big money sponsors? Are they so arrogant as to think people won't check their claims?

 

If I didn't know better, I'd think that Premiere Racing was using the same marketing and PR folks that Alinghi and US Sailing use (see US Sailing thread to get the joke).

 

Alan,

 

I like a lot of what you do with/for SA, but the hardon for Premiere is getting old.

It is one of the best events in the US, many many people enjoy it, and if they lost their sponsorship or otherwise were unable to run it, it would be a huge loss to the sailing community. I don't know Peter Craig, and don't really care one way or the other about how he gets his event organized/paid for. I do care that the event continues. I was one of many who skipped KWRW this year. It was 100% an economic decision. My missing KWRW had nothing to do with how the event is, or isn't run. Every single person I spoke with who is a KWRW 'regular' who did not attend this year said the same thing.

I suggest you focus your efforts on the OTW stuff, and perhaps, an upcoming pictorial on tits on Mackinac Island....

 

Tim -

Please explain why you are defending Premiere's actions in their sponsorship hunt, and how it doesn't totally effect and reflect poorly on the rest of us who are out trying to promote racing and bring in new sponsors.

 

If you read what I wrote above, you'll note that this is not JUST LAST YEAR. This has been happening since 2003. As you know, I respect your opinion, so please explain further than "people enjoy it so leave it alone." I'll leave it alone when I'm good and ready, and when the jerkoffs that run it go back to focusing on the sailors rather than the balance sheet. If they do that, the event will grow again.

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Had a chance to check out Premiere Racing's sponsor package and video today, and was amazed to find that they'd claimed "3000 sailors" take part in KWRW in their sponsorship package for 2010 Key West Race Week, and included a voiceover in the promo video that claimed they had "growing numbers" in recent years, that numerous classes make Key West a championship regatta, and so on.

 

There's one problem with these claims; they are outright lies. There were 156 BOATS at 2009 Key West Race Week this year. According to Key West's marketing crap, that means there were about 20 sailors on each boat. And Key West hasn't grown since, I think, 2003. In fact, the regatta has lost numbers every single year since then and is down over 50% from its high number of some 320 boats IIRC. This is across the board; big boats and little boats are both down sharply since the high numbers 6 years ago.

 

With Acura deserting both Key West and Miami as title sponsor, is Premiere simply so desperate for funds that its marketing department is prepared to simply fabricate numbers in an attempt to attract big money sponsors? Are they so arrogant as to think people won't check their claims?

 

If I didn't know better, I'd think that Premiere Racing was using the same marketing and PR folks that Alinghi and US Sailing use (see US Sailing thread to get the joke).

 

Alan,

 

I like a lot of what you do with/for SA, but the hardon for Premiere is getting old.

It is one of the best events in the US, many many people enjoy it, and if they lost their sponsorship or otherwise were unable to run it, it would be a huge loss to the sailing community. I don't know Peter Craig, and don't really care one way or the other about how he gets his event organized/paid for. I do care that the event continues. I was one of many who skipped KWRW this year. It was 100% an economic decision. My missing KWRW had nothing to do with how the event is, or isn't run. Every single person I spoke with who is a KWRW 'regular' who did not attend this year said the same thing.

I suggest you focus your efforts on the OTW stuff, and perhaps, an upcoming pictorial on tits on Mackinac Island....

 

Tim -

Please explain why you are defending Premiere's actions in their sponsorship hunt, and how it doesn't totally effect and reflect poorly on the rest of us who are out trying to promote racing and bring in new sponsors.

 

If you read what I wrote above, you'll note that this is not JUST LAST YEAR. This has been happening since 2003. As you know, I respect your opinion, so please explain further than "people enjoy it so leave it alone." I'll leave it alone when I'm good and ready, and when the jerkoffs that run it go back to focusing on the sailors rather than the balance sheet. If they do that, the event will grow again.

 

 

I'll give it a shot:

 

Page 1: I can't prove the boats in the photo were actually at KWRW, but someone with better imaging software than I have could probably blow them up and confirm they are, in fact, racing in KW. Conclusion: nothing misleading or disengenuous.

 

Page 2: Bullet point 1: Somewhat subjective, but well within the range of acceptable puffery.

Bullet point 2: I believe this is true, and even if those numbers did not occur in one given year, certainly they have over the 22 year history of the event. Potentiall a bit of puffery, but well within the range of acceptable puffery.

Bullet point 3: No idea if this is true.

Bullet point 4: I believe they did have 260 boats one year. It doesn't say they had 260 boats LAST year. If you count support staff, industry professionals who sail, but who aren't actually sailing KWRW, you could've had close to 3000 people who sail there at the same time there were 260 boats...again, they did not say 3000 sailors LAST year. And, it may have been a bit of puffery, but once again, within the range of acceptable puffery.

Bullet Points 5 and 6: True

 

If they don't pay attention to their balance sheet, they won't have the event.

 

I am just not seeing that Premiere is committing some horrible act of deception.

 

Now, how about the Mac races OTW and titties on Mackinac?

 

EDIT: OOPS, forgot pages 3-7:

 

Page 3: Assume to be true....actual people quoted would bitch if quotes attributed to them were not in fact their quotes. Pass.

Page 4: All but bullet point 4 are true. Bullet point 4 MAY have a bit of puffery, and, again, within the range of acceptable puffery. ANd, it does not say those were last year's numbers.

Page 5: True

Page 6: I do not know if this is true; looking at the info shown, I suspect that those demographics apply to the boat owners, and not us poor slobs who crew for them...well except the highly paid ones... I would consider this the most disingenuous of all the pages, but only because a distinction was not made between the 'up to 260 boats' owners, or, the 'up to 3000 sailors'.

Page 7: True.

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Clean,

So, let's say you are successful in scaring sponsors away from KW race week, does that help or hurt us sailors?

 

Do you care more about the success of the sport and its participants, or just the events that work with you?

 

Seems from this piece, it is all about Alan beating on someone who pissed him off, unfortunately to the detriment of the sport and us sailors, but at least Scooter will give you love for it.

 

I can only imagine if one of SA's prospective advertiser's displayed your media packet here. I am sure it would not draw any scrutiny.

 

This crap you and ED constantly try to knock other people in the sailing community with, 90% of the time without suggesting a way to help make it better but instead just ripping people, is getting so old, very, very old.

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This thread is going to more damage to a cool regatta than good (as MDD also states).

 

I think a direct approach to the organizers of KWRW instead of smashing them in SA might've been a little more politic.

 

This isn't going to help anyone really.

 

forum_2f455681_two_cents_small.jpg

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It has been a while since Clean climbed to the top of the shit pile and screamed "Look at me".

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I used to be involved in the sport, racing in the big events every year. Now I race a beer can race or weekend series every now and then.

 

My now 'external' observation on the sport is that it is filled with people like Clean, who are ready to bitch in the tent at any and every opportunity when someone has wronged them, fouled them, messed with their rating, etc.

 

You want to know why regattas like KWRW are dying Clean? Want to know why sponsors aren't interested? Look in the mirror, chief.

 

For my hard-earned cash, the last thing I want to do is go hang with loud, miserable a-holes for a week.

 

J

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Clean -

 

I hope you remember that just because SA has gotten some of the puzzle figured out (for now) does not mean that every one else has gotten it all wrong.

 

I don't know Peter Craig from Adam, and have never gone to Key West Race Week. But I have friends who go often, and they universally come back and talk about the great time they had on the water and on shore. That sounds like a ringing endorsement to me, when people enjoy the racing and enjoy the shore side activities. Those that did not return in the past two years did so strictly for economic reasons and not because of any negative experience they had at the event.

 

You might want to add up the posts on this thread and see how many support your view, and how many are critical of it. So far it is looking that you, rather than Premier, are the party that is out of step with the rest of us with regard to Key West and Premier.

 

RM

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It has been a while since Clean climbed to the top of the shit pile and screamed "Look at me".

 

+1

 

Here's the thing though... SA is in competition with Premier. SA is "organizing" its own regattas so it has to trash other events to ensure turnout at theirs. Although Clean disparages the balance sheet thing, it is the balance sheet thing to SA. SA used to be independent. It can't be anymore.

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Let's not forget in which country all this "imaginative advertising" began.

 

Invented in the USA.

Not a problem unless there is some shadow futures market in regatta entries in the international regatta management market we don't know about coupled with an over utilisation of 'no show' insurance default swaps.

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191137_res2_MostlyZippedLips.jpg

 

I'm with the majority on this one, maybe clean should just zip it.

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Mr. Clean, most of what you say/report here on SA relative to sailing are amongst the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling and incoherent articles are you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having listened to you. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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Give Clean a break. I've done a lot of KWRW's and it's a great regatta. Most of us view it that way, so why should the organizers have to bullshit about it? Fact is, SORC/Miami is done, the final nail there being when it was turned in to an "invite only" event under the auspices of dockage issues. Key West is losing participants. It's not the economy. Heineken Regatta and to some extent Antigua are growing. We all want Key West to grow and thrive. A critical look at the way it's being run is needed to make sure it doesn't get flushed like SORC....

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It has been a while since Clean climbed to the top of the shit pile and screamed "Look at me".

So Clean, since it is now your mission to expose lying in the sailing world... how about that insurance paperwork on the Benny 36.7 you promised us? You haven't forgotten about that great big fraud case, have you?

 

That was a front page article, and SA sells advertising, so isn't this all a bit of the pot calling the kettle black???

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Maybe instead of pissing and moaning about one regatta, go and cover OTHERS MORE OFTEN?

 

I thought there was an Espo interview post BIRW coming? Or was that just another "joke"?

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Clean;

 

Mr Craig is simply promoting is business. There is no social injustice in it, and frankly who cares, we dont.

 

As far as attacking Brad and Kim for no free beer at Sail Newport, i have to say i have been going to that event for many years and have had the free beer, Newport Storm, and frankly it sucked. Paying a dollar for Heineken is not lame nor injust, as a matter of fact it has prevented me from getting wicked flatulence. So i consider it a great service.

 

KWRW and anything Brad & Kim runs pretty much rocks, and has so for many years.

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Clean, I don't see why your panties are getting so knotted. ALL regatta notices have been afflicted by marketing hype and BS, and yes it can make you gag at times, but at least this is aimed at SPONSORS to try and boost the sport. What's the problem with that? So what if they said 3,000?. Does 2,600 make you happier? How about 2,345? How many competitors would NOT go as a result of the extravagant claim regarding the number of sailors versus how many potential sponsors might turn away as a result of your whining about inconsequential "facts"??

 

Focus on what's important....... i.e.: some person is trying to impress potential sponsors to keep the the event running. I'm sure that most potential sponsors would do their own analysis of what the event is worth to them, irrespective of some fudging of the actual sailor headcount.

 

BTW, since you are doing some high quality investigative reporting on this crime, what's the real number?

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Premiere self-promotion is no different than Clean and the Ed puffing about how great and widely read SA is.

 

Pot + Kettle = Black

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Clean -

 

Controversial piece = more impressions.

More impressions = more $

 

And who is crapping on who for trying to make a living in sailing? Best not to shit where you eat pal.

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I for one miss Miami Race week....Premier did a great job with it. I was very pissed at the lame story about not enough docks after 2 years. The invite thing I think is what sank it. As class folks change classes the numers per class goes down and with it revenue. I hope someone will do it more. Biscayne bay is a great place to sail...

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Clean;

 

Mr Craig is simply promoting is business. There is no social injustice in it, and frankly who cares, we dont.

 

As far as attacking Brad and Kim for no free beer at Sail Newport, i have to say i have been going to that event for many years and have had the free beer, Newport Storm, and frankly it sucked. Paying a dollar for Heineken is not lame nor injust, as a matter of fact it has prevented me from getting wicked flatulence. So i consider it a great service.

 

KWRW and anything Brad & Kim runs pretty much rocks, and has so for many years.

 

AFAIK, Newport Storm did that under their own volition to increase promotion of the brand, not because of Brad & Kim.

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Clean,

Your little video rant at KWRW last year was a kick in the crotch to sailing. Yet after that bashing you took for your little rant you come back for more.

 

Why don't you move along from your KWRW bashing sessions and say things that are positive and encourage people to attend this and every event out there.

 

Out,

 

DogBalls

 

PS - you're losing credibility

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Clean, I’m with the majority here, your doing more harm than good. Generally I like your coverage with OTWA but coming from someone that has competed in nine of the last ten years of KWRW, please let it go.

 

If you want to start bashing regattas, I can certainly tell you about my experiences with Charleston Race Week 07. Like it’s not really a week, the free dockage is a long hoof out to a t-head, the motor out the ocean course is around a hour and half long each way. This made us miss most of the parties, where there were only two rum lines and then pay for your food anyway. No second plan for the trophy presentation, so it was held in a hotel room where only a quarter of the people could fit. Speaking of trophies, they were pitiful. The RC work was marginal at best. We were started behind the slower boats so on every race we had to roll through the class that started before us. Every race was a windward finish, even the last one which made the motor in that much longer. I could go on…

 

The point being that I can take any regatta and find the bad in it. Yeah KWRW is expensive and has its problems too but we're better off with it than without it. Do you really think it matters if they say 3000 or 2500? BTW: even though we race with 10, we travel with around 20 +/-. Wives, our diver, friends that drive the support trailer, friends that want to cook, all who wants to help and just hang out. All of which are sailors!

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Clean,

Your little video rant at KWRW last year was a kick in the crotch to sailing. Yet after that bashing you took for your little rant you come back for more.

 

Why don't you move along from your KWRW bashing sessions and say things that are positive and encourage people to attend this and every event out there.

 

Out,

 

DogBalls

 

PS - you're losing credibility

 

Sorry if this has been said, but Clean and by proxy Ed continue this rediculous rampage on KWRW because it is now the competition. Now the SA is doing its Sport Boat World Championship or whatever it is called KWRW is competition for them.

 

Clean is in this whole thing for the money, he will do whatever it takes to make sure he gets his paycheck, and if that means talking crap on one regatta so his regatta gets a few more boats then he will do it without a second thought. It is quite sad that Mr. Clean the spokesperson for SA has become nothing more than a paid for spokesperson, not a person who is looking out for the sport of sailing.

 

Any regatta that people make serious arrangements and financial obligations to go to and come back satisfied and happy should be enough to say it was a success.

 

And maybe on second thought Clean is just pissed that Premiere has a better sponsorship proposal package than he has.

 

Either way Clean STFU and move on, your doing nothing positive for the sport, which needs all the help it can get lately.

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I don't care as I'll be back in college for the next couple or 3 KWRW's, but bashing them obviously isn't bringing any change. Why do you keep on doing it bro?

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Key West is losing participants. It's not the economy.

 

 

This is just plain wrong, but to be fair I would say its a combination of both economy and management.

 

99 pct due to economy

1.0 pct due to management

 

Key West will survive bigger or smaller because of location, location, location. It's one of the few 'paradises'

the average guy can escape from the north to by car.

 

I know about 10 boats that didnt go because of costs. I dont know anyone who really at the end of the day

makes a decision about sailing there based on if Premire is firing on all cylinders or not.

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OK, OK I get it Mr. Clean. Everyone that tries to put on a race is an idiot who is out to screw someone.

 

If you trash enough of these guys, then pretty soon you can stay home and play with yourself.

 

Didn't you interfere with one of these races at the start last year?

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OK, OK I get it Mr. Clean. Everyone that tries to put on a race is an idiot who is out to screw someoneexcept Clean, Scott, and SA sport boat worlds?.

 

If you trash enough of these guys, then pretty soon you can stay home and play with yourself.

 

Didn't you interfere with one of these races at the start last year?

There I fixed it for you.

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I don't have dog in this hunt, but I'm guessing there will be a Premier Racing press boat blocking your every attempt to shoot pics and footage for OTWA in 2010.

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Asswipe,

Tired of your continuing vendetta against Premier Sailing. Who the fuck are you and what have you ever done for sailing? You are a sad piece of shit.

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I have never seen such a universal shunning of Mr. Clean on these forums. To write what you did and argue that you are a crusader for the sport is completely outrageous. I am satisfied that the readership as a whole is giving you what you deserve for being so opinionated.

 

There are some other sailing media sites that are nipping at the heals because they are not centered around this "fuck you" attitude.

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I've always suspected that Scot would like to have SA "take over" KWRW; perhaps this critique of Premiere is to be viewed as if in furtherance of that concept.

 

Would a heavy SA involvement in KW be good for the event? Probably so at some levels and probably a disaster at other levels. Promotion & participation would be great if there were some way to get them to work together for the greater good. Towards that end it would probably be good if Premiere became a bit more like SA and SA became a bit more like Premiere.

 

In any event not likely to happen given the history between the two. But it would be interesting.

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Clean -

 

I hope you remember that just because SA has gotten some of the puzzle figured out (for now) does not mean that every one else has gotten it all wrong.

 

I don't know Peter Craig from Adam, and have never gone to Key West Race Week. But I have friends who go often, and they universally come back and talk about the great time they had on the water and on shore. That sounds like a ringing endorsement to me, when people enjoy the racing and enjoy the shore side activities. Those that did not return in the past two years did so strictly for economic reasons and not because of any negative experience they had at the event.

 

You might want to add up the posts on this thread and see how many support your view, and how many are critical of it. So far it is looking that you, rather than Premier, are the party that is out of step with the rest of us with regard to Key West and Premier.

 

RM

 

Well said RM but you need to broaden your horizons, get that fire breathing beast down to the keys next winter and then take her to Jamaica, what laughs you'll have.

 

Subject at hand...when I had a marketing budget at another company we actively supported both Key West and SA and considered both to be sponsorship money well spent. When, in my new company, we have enough budget to dedicate $$ to these kind of things again I won't hesitate to support KW but if SA insists on trying to dilute those dollars with an unceasing childlike vendetta I would have to think very hard before supporting those efforts and that's my 2cents.

 

Both Peter and Scot are decent guys trying to make a living in a hard game and I consider both friends.

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Clean -

 

I hope you remember that just because SA has gotten some of the puzzle figured out (for now) does not mean that every one else has gotten it all wrong.

 

I don't know Peter Craig from Adam, and have never gone to Key West Race Week. But I have friends who go often, and they universally come back and talk about the great time they had on the water and on shore. That sounds like a ringing endorsement to me, when people enjoy the racing and enjoy the shore side activities. Those that did not return in the past two years did so strictly for economic reasons and not because of any negative experience they had at the event.

 

You might want to add up the posts on this thread and see how many support your view, and how many are critical of it. So far it is looking that you, rather than Premier, are the party that is out of step with the rest of us with regard to Key West and Premier.

 

RM

 

Well said RM but you need to broaden your horizons, get that fire breathing beast down to the keys next winter and then take her to Jamaica, what laughs you'll have.

 

Subject at hand...when I had a marketing budget at another company we actively supported both Key West and SA and considered both to be sponsorship money well spent. When, in my new company, we have enough budget to dedicate $$ to these kind of things again I won't hesitate to support KW but if SA insists on trying to dilute those dollars with an unceasing childlike vendetta I would have to think very hard before supporting those efforts and that's my 2cents.

 

Both Peter and Scot are decent guys trying to make a living in a hard game and I consider both friends.

 

One of the most interesting posts I've read in weeks.

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Well said RM but you need to broaden your horizons, get that fire breathing beast down to the keys next winter and then take her to Jamaica, what laughs you'll have.

 

Your lips, god's ears Bob! Altough I think I need to win the lotto first.

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Mindless divisive bullshit brought you by Quantam Sails and On The Water Anarchy.

 

......

 

Maybe based on this thread, the last remaining sponsors will pull out, KWRW will die, and CRW will become the new KW. How cool would that be for Mr. Clean and SA!!!!!

 

.....

 

I bet this thread disappears soon.

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I've always suspected that Scot would like to have SA "take over" KWRW; perhaps this critique of Premiere is to be viewed as if in furtherance of that concept.

 

Would a heavy SA involvement in KW be good for the event? Probably so at some levels and probably a disaster at other levels. Promotion & participation would be great if there were some way to get them to work together for the greater good. Towards that end it would probably be good if Premiere became a bit more like SA and SA became a bit more like Premiere.

 

In any event not likely to happen given the history between the two. But it would be interesting.

 

I personally know many of the people (fellow sailors) that use their winter vacation and volunteer their time to come to Florida and help Peter Craig run KWRW. I have been fortunate enough to take my winter vacation to go participate in this event.

 

I like SA and what it does as a whole to bring the global sailing community together, but, I can guaran-damn-tee you not one of them would help SA run that regatta.

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Would a heavy SA involvement in KW be good for the event? Probably so at some levels and probably a disaster at other levels.

 

I like SA and what it does as a whole to bring the global sailing community together, but, I can guaran-damn-tee you not one of them would help SA run that regatta.

Same thing: that is exactly what I meant!

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I'm still waiting for the stories about the recent Quantum fiasco and the FT10 keel slot debacle to see the light of day. I'm also amazed that so many idiots actually think a website is going to field an AC challenge. Keep donating them dollars folks, I'm sure they're going to a good cause...

 

The National Enquirer of sailing calling somebody out for shady marketing. That's fucking rich.

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I like SA and what it does as a whole to bring the global sailing community together, but, I can guaran-damn-tee you not one of them would help SA run that regatta.

Would you after one of main represenatives of SA does nothing but whine and bitch about how much you suck and your event is garbage?

 

I think not.

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WTF

This is Sailing Anarchy.

When every body jumps on one side, it's time to look at the other.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'm skeptical of all the professionals.

I like KW.

Nothing the matter with a little puffery.

But numbers are numbers.

I think it's ok to call out anybody on the facts.

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WTF

This is Sailing Anarchy...

 

 

No, it's just a website with a catchy logo.

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The National Enquirer of sailing calling somebody out for shady marketing. That's fucking rich.

 

That's great... got to remember that one!

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Clean,

 

I am usually the first to defend your off center look at things because I enjoy the read and think you get a different angle at things as you change your lifes pursuit. That said this one is just dumb dude, your bitching about "puffery" in an attempt to support our sport. You should be "lying" about the numbers too. This sport needs sponsship. I have heard the claims of wind in the 30's when our instruments say 26.2. Do I go over and call the guy a liar?? No, who gives a fuck its his story. Go back to talking about sailing and let the whole premiere thing go as stated earlier its getting old and your turning into the little boy yelling fire. Sorry bro~

 

MT

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Would a heavy SA involvement in KW be good for the event? Probably so at some levels and probably a disaster at other levels.

 

I like SA and what it does as a whole to bring the global sailing community together, but, I can guaran-damn-tee you not one of them would help SA run that regatta.

Same thing: that is exactly what I meant!

 

Dude, I just don't have your linguistic ability..I had no idea WTF you were trying to say!

 

Go the Sham-wow!

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Key West is losing participants. It's not the economy.

 

 

This is just plain wrong, but to be fair I would say its a combination of both economy and management.

 

99 pct due to economy

1.0 pct due to management

 

Key West will survive bigger or smaller because of location, location, location. It's one of the few 'paradises'

the average guy can escape from the north to by car.

 

I know about 10 boats that didnt go because of costs. I dont know anyone who really at the end of the day

makes a decision about sailing there based on if Premire is firing on all cylinders or not.

 

As a devil's advocate here, let's look at some facts. The big days of KW numbers were when the economy was booming and there were heaps of OD classes there. The numbers of J-109, Farr 40's and M-30's have been in decline for a while. Yeah, there are a ton of M-32's coming now, but what else? If Premiere continutes to operate on a business model that worked 5 years ago, they may not make it in the long run. Instead of Clean bashing here, come up with some constructive ideas to reduce costs and increase participation at KW. No one is above constructive scrutiny. Not Clean, not SA, not Premiere.

 

Problem 1: Lack of acess for small sportsboats. Solution: a second mobile marina at Stock Island for SB3's and the like

Problem 2: High cost of housing. Solution, a second party tent and a tent city for those on a budget

Opportunity: How about a beach cat division off the beach on the south side?

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Clean -

 

I hope you remember that just because SA has gotten some of the puzzle figured out (for now) does not mean that every one else has gotten it all wrong.

 

I don't know Peter Craig from Adam, and have never gone to Key West Race Week. But I have friends who go often, and they universally come back and talk about the great time they had on the water and on shore. That sounds like a ringing endorsement to me, when people enjoy the racing and enjoy the shore side activities. Those that did not return in the past two years did so strictly for economic reasons and not because of any negative experience they had at the event.

 

You might want to add up the posts on this thread and see how many support your view, and how many are critical of it. So far it is looking that you, rather than Premier, are the party that is out of step with the rest of us with regard to Key West and Premier.

 

RM

 

Well said RM but you need to broaden your horizons, get that fire breathing beast down to the keys next winter and then take her to Jamaica, what laughs you'll have.

 

Subject at hand...when I had a marketing budget at another company we actively supported both Key West and SA and considered both to be sponsorship money well spent. When, in my new company, we have enough budget to dedicate $$ to these kind of things again I won't hesitate to support KW but if SA insists on trying to dilute those dollars with an unceasing childlike vendetta I would have to think very hard before supporting those efforts and that's my 2cents.

 

Both Peter and Scot are decent guys trying to make a living in a hard game and I consider both friends.

 

Touche' Bob. I would think that even with a 160 or so boats, thet were at least 3000 or more additional folks in KW for race Week. There are at least and extra 500 girls working at Teazers for the week. Plus their trainers, security etc.

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Key West is losing participants. It's not the economy.

 

 

This is just plain wrong, but to be fair I would say its a combination of both economy and management.

 

99 pct due to economy

1.0 pct due to management

 

Key West will survive bigger or smaller because of location, location, location. It's one of the few 'paradises'

the average guy can escape from the north to by car.

 

I know about 10 boats that didnt go because of costs. I dont know anyone who really at the end of the day

makes a decision about sailing there based on if Premire is firing on all cylinders or not.

 

As a devil's advocate here, let's look at some facts. The big days of KW numbers were when the economy was booming and there were heaps of OD classes there. The numbers of J-109, Farr 40's and M-30's have been in decline for a while. Yeah, there are a ton of M-32's coming now, but what else? If Premiere continutes to operate on a business model that worked 5 years ago, they may not make it in the long run. Instead of Clean bashing here, come up with some constructive ideas to reduce costs and increase participation at KW. No one is above constructive scrutiny. Not Clean, not SA, not Premiere.

 

Problem 1: Lack of acess for small sportsboats. Solution: a second mobile marina at Stock Island for SB3's and the like

Problem 2: High cost of housing. Solution, a second party tent and a tent city for those on a budget

Opportunity: How about a beach cat division off the beach on the south side?

 

All good solutions to Problems. Bring grass routs ideas to a large corporate event is golden. Just need to work out the details with the City and that should only take a few years.....

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hmm, CLEAN is lurking but silent. Glad to see he took the collective advice and STFU.

 

We should be so lucky....

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C'mon koko - you know I'm pretty much incapable of shutting up. However I did just wake up after catching up on some sleep from the 14 hour drive from Newport to Detroit, and once I have my wits about me, I'll respond. It may take a while!

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C'mon koko - you know I'm pretty much incapable of shutting up. However I did just wake up after catching up on some sleep from the 14 hour drive from Newport to Detroit, and once I have my wits about me, I'll respond. It may take a while!

 

 

Damn, I guess we weren't so lucky! :P

 

 

Once you get your wits back and before you respond, at least consider what the vast majority of posters has been trying to tell you.

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FWIW, this post was a result of an angry former Premiere sponsor sending me the Key West Sponsorship Proposal after being solicited for the 2010 event. He wrote: "How stupid do they think we are?"

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Key West is losing participants. It's not the economy.

 

 

This is just plain wrong, but to be fair I would say its a combination of both economy and management.

 

99 pct due to economy

1.0 pct due to management

 

Key West will survive bigger or smaller because of location, location, location. It's one of the few 'paradises'

the average guy can escape from the north to by car.

 

I know about 10 boats that didnt go because of costs. I dont know anyone who really at the end of the day

makes a decision about sailing there based on if Premire is firing on all cylinders or not.

 

As a devil's advocate here, let's look at some facts. The big days of KW numbers were when the economy was booming and there were heaps of OD classes there. The numbers of J-109, Farr 40's and M-30's have been in decline for a while. Yeah, there are a ton of M-32's coming now, but what else? If Premiere continutes to operate on a business model that worked 5 years ago, they may not make it in the long run. Instead of Clean bashing here, come up with some constructive ideas to reduce costs and increase participation at KW. No one is above constructive scrutiny. Not Clean, not SA, not Premiere.

 

Problem 1: Lack of acess for small sportsboats. Solution: a second mobile marina at Stock Island for SB3's and the like

Problem 2: High cost of housing. Solution, a second party tent and a tent city for those on a budget

Opportunity: How about a beach cat division off the beach on the south side?

 

 

That's good stuff, but they still have a 24 foot minimum cut off. That said, no M20's, SB3's, Vipers, and U20's. These boats alone could boost the attendance by 50 or more. I seriously don't get why they'd have a size cut off for round the can racing anyhow.

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C'mon koko - you know I'm pretty much incapable of shutting up.

 

Yes but much like Fox News commentators and politics, you're HURTING sailing.

 

Waah Premiere sucks. I don't see you highlighting better regattas. Need we bring up your piss poor coverage of BIRW? Are you covering NYYC Race Week?

 

Cover those and throw those in Premiere's face. Compare and contrast and make some solid points why one is better than the other.

Nobody gives a shit about a whiner. They do when they back up their whining.

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Not even taking the effort to read the whole of the topic, but just what are Scott and and Clean trying to establish?

 

Try and enhance regatta's instead of putting down the sponsors who make it happen. OTW anarchy is great, but by putting sponsors down there will be no regattas in the end. No matter what the fight with Premiere Racing might be, this is outright stupid.

 

Think of all of the guys who are allowed to sail on sponsored (or privately funded) boats who you are all giving shit right now. Let's be glad that we can race on these boats and enjoy this great sport without having to bear the costs of ownership. Whatever the fuss with PR might be, get over it and try to combine forces for our sport instead of putting each other down.

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C'mon koko - you know I'm pretty much incapable of shutting up. However I did just wake up after catching up on some sleep from the 14 hour drive from Newport to Detroit, and once I have my wits about me, I'll respond. It may take a while!

 

This should be fantastic!

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FWIW, this post was a result of an angry former Premiere sponsor sending me the Key West Sponsorship Proposal after being solicited for the 2010 event. He wrote: "How stupid do they think we are?"

 

 

You my dear are off the mark or rather, stuck on the mark.. yet have missed it completely.

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FWIW, this post was a result of an angry former Premiere sponsor sending me the Key West Sponsorship Proposal after being solicited for the 2010 event. He wrote: "How stupid do they think we are?"

 

It ain't worth a hill of beans Clean. Your contact didn't post the comments, you did. As far as how stupid they think you both are, well, this whole thread makes it look like they just might have their assessment correct. Premiere has them pegged properly as just 1 level above you, again, they didn't post it. Maybe they are actually 2 levels above you since they just played you like a puppet.

 

Any other excuses for your idiocy? Do you want to try to blame anyone else?

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Clean, you're the engineer that I'd throw out of my office with my foot stuck in his or her ass. If you have a complaint, fine...offer some solutions, I'm all ears. If you want to just piss in my punch bowl because it makes you feel better, then get the fuck out and see if you could do it better. You might try reading up on "constructive criticism". Now please, quit acting like a punk. You're better than this.

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Clean. How can I say this? Let me be brief. You're a major CUNT.

 

 

 

Fexter.jpg

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No shit! I had no idea that the scientific name for taint was perineum.

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Yeah, it's like that plastic tab on the 6 pack where you place your finger and thumb into like ya know?

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WTF

This is Sailing Anarchy...

 

 

No, it's just a website with a catchy logo.

 

thank you Shife

 

few years ago found this site

thought this is the place for me

 

man was this a let down

 

it is no different from any other site

just more cussing and dumping on others

 

this boat good

barview good

 

other boats bad

other clubs bad

 

it's more like some petty small minded

grosse pointe north high school in group

 

anarchy hell

 

this is not a site for anarchist

it is a site for members of the ruling class

that like to dump on each other

 

real sailing anarchist's don't even fn race

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WTF

This is Sailing Anarchy...

 

 

No, it's just a website with a catchy logo.

 

thank you Shife

 

few years ago found this site

thought this is the place for me

 

man was this a let down

 

it is no different from any other site

just more cussing and dumping on others

 

this boat good

barview good

 

other boats bad

other clubs bad

 

it's more like some petty small minded

grosse pointe north high school in group

 

anarchy hell

 

this is not a site for anarchist

it is a site for members of the ruling class

that like to dump on each other

 

real sailing anarchist's don't even fn race

 

Two points

 

  1. This site ain't as bad as you make it out to be. There is a bunch of good and useful stuff mixed in with the bad here, with the balance tipped towards the good stuff. 90% of the front page content is informative, and the powers that be are more than open about posting content from any of you that can string a sentence together, giving all of you the ability to get some publicity for your local area or your corner of the sport. Meanwhile, the forum is populated by just the type of mix of people that make a good bar scene including the quietly competent and the blow hards, the pros and the poseurs, the able and the infirmed, the party animals and the wall flowers, the experienced hands and the rookies, the serious and the comics....even the nice guys and the assholes (and the assholes who are actually nice guys). There is a reason why this site is more heavily frequented than other sailing sites, and it is because on the whole it is more entertaining and even useful than those other sites.
  2. Did you share an English teacher with Woody?The grammatical practice of structuring one's words in to sentences serves a useful purpose. I recommend that you try it out.

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What if regattas simply grow, get too big,and then contract to an optimal size? Perhaps it's the economics of Key West, not the economy, that have prompted some folks to stay away. For many racers, the trip to Key West is far and long which equals more expensive than close and short. Housing is booked, dock space is booked, and every food/bev establishment is packed. Not everyone finds this enjoyable. Racing is racing, and some will place their resources elsewhere where they encounter less resistance, less stress. No matter what Premiere does or doesn't do, it can't improve some of the challenges that come with a regatta that can be oversold.

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So just musing out loud here.... why do people consider the word "cunt" an insult? I thoroughly enjoy my interactions with cunt(s). Heck, some quality time with cunt is perhaps the best single use of my time that I can think of. I have spent countless hours and dollars in the pursuit of cunt. So why all the negative connotations? Frankly, calling anyone a cunt is a compliment in my book, not an insult.

 

Same thing for the word "suck"... if there is "sucking" going on in my life, then chances are that I am going to be showing my "O" face. I can't find anything pejorative in that.

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KWRW is expensive. Have any of you sailed a regatta in KW outside of premiers event? I have done one and the event was a fraction of the cost associated with KWRW. The same yard was cheaper, the same haulout was cheaper and the same drinks were cheaper...hookers...drugs...etc.

 

I'm not saying premeir shouldnt make money but their business model is not encouraging growth...maybe the PROS are overpaid??? I think the event itself and the on the water work is great....but is it costing too much money?

 

If the regatta was free and hosted by the City of Key West would that bring in more participation? Free registration? Free wristbands and the beer sponsors were the local taverns and the food provided by local restaurants, of course charging you what you eat or drink? Many cities across the country host special events in the interest of bringing in crowds to spend money. KW can easily do the same. Want me to write a grant for some Obama stimulus money? Aint that hard....

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So just musing out loud here.... why do people consider the word "cunt" an insult? I thoroughly enjoy my interactions with cunt(s). Heck, some quality time with cunt is perhaps the best single use of my time that I can think of. I have spent countless hours and dollars in the pursuit of cunt. So why all the negative connotations? Frankly, calling anyone a cunt is a compliment in my book, not an insult.

 

Same thing for the word "suck"... if there is "sucking" going on in my life, then chances are that I am going to be showing my "O" face. I can't find anything pejorative in that.

 

 

:lol:

 

I know more than a few people who bought really big boats in an effort to attract cunts...

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So just musing out loud here.... why do people consider the word "cunt" an insult? I thoroughly enjoy my interactions with cunt(s). Heck, some quality time with cunt is perhaps the best single use of my time that I can think of. I have spent countless hours and dollars in the pursuit of cunt. So why all the negative connotations? Frankly, calling anyone a cunt is a compliment in my book, not an insult.

 

Same thing for the word "suck"... if there is "sucking" going on in my life, then chances are that I am going to be showing my "O" face. I can't find anything pejorative in that.

 

 

:lol:

 

I know more than a few people who bought really big boats in an effort to attract cunts...

 

 

Exactly my point! Now I would never think of buying a boat just in an effort to attract cunt *looks innocent*. But who are we kidding here? I, like any red blooded male of the straight variety, am quite fond of cunt. So why all the negative vibe around the use of the word?

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I know more than a few people who bought really big boats in an effort to attract cunts...

 

Had lots of dates in the 80's whilst running a 65 foot IOR boat.

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If Mr. Cunt, I mean Clean, wants to step up and actually RUN A REGATTA, instead of harassing those that do, I would be the first to drag my own cunt-ass across the US, like I did for Peter's over-priced event, and it was way too expensive. Until then, Mr. Clean should keep his cunt shut, except to give us OTW reports and colorful commentary. Clean is entertaining when he shoves that mike in some clueless fleck's face, but he is NOT entertaining when he's incessantly complaining about Peter S. Clean gets a hard-on attacking Craig and, frankly, it's personal, not professional (unlike my calling Clean a Cunt, LOL).

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If Mr. Cunt, I mean Clean, wants to step up and actually RUN A REGATTA, instead of harassing those that do, I would be the first to drag my own cunt-ass across the US, like I did for Peter's over-priced event, and it was way too expensive. Until then, Mr. Clean should keep his cunt shut, except to give us OTW reports and colorful commentary. Clean is entertaining when he shoves that mike in some clueless fleck's face, but he is NOT entertaining when he's incessantly complaining about Peter S. Clean gets a hard-on attacking Craig and, frankly, it's personal, not professional (unlike my calling Clean a Cunt, LOL).

He did.

In Florida this past spring.

It was free.

The economy kept everyone home, unfortunately.

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I'm also amazed that so many idiots actually think a website is going to field an AC challenge. Keep donating them dollars folks, I'm sure they're going to a good cause...

 

 

If we can vote Obama president, I'm not amazed at any level of stupidity the American people can rise to.

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I'm also amazed that so many idiots actually think a website is going to field an AC challenge. Keep donating them dollars folks, I'm sure they're going to a good cause...

 

 

If we can vote Obama president, I'm not amazed at any level of stupidity the American people can rise to.

 

That Bush stole the first election and won the second is more pertinent to the stupidity of the electorate, and their minders in Congress and the other branches.

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I'm also amazed that so many idiots actually think a website is going to field an AC challenge. Keep donating them dollars folks, I'm sure they're going to a good cause...

 

 

If we can vote Obama president, I'm not amazed at any level of stupidity the American people can rise to.

 

Wrong forum Douchebag....

 

I agree with pytlak, if there was a small boat fleet out of stock island, the regatta would have alot more "not cunts", but at the same time, I think the lack of places to crash is what keeps boats from coming. Whoever had the tent idea..that was a good one, or maybe we could go back to the old days and be allowed to crash on the boat. why did we all stop doing that anyway?

 

Whatever the deal is, The sailing part of Key West kicks ass and I am really looking forward to getting back down there this winter, as I am sure the other 3000 :lol::lol: are...

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