Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Great_lakes_racer

Melges 20 National Championships

Recommended Posts

it's a little early, the regatta starts the 21st of august, but who all is planning on going?

 

 

Two boats from Italy, 6+ from Michigan area, 1 from Seattle, 2+ (?) from Toronto - working on others from Annapolis, Tenn., Texas --- not sure if Pegasus team will attend but certainly hope so.

 

WWing

Melges 20 #132

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WOW! This thread hasn't been hijacked by the Viper guys yet.

 

I am trying to get there!

 

Why would they? It is highly unlikely that they are invited to race you guys.....

 

OTOH - it could maybe help liven up this thread and dampen the

 

echo echo echo echo

 

 

;):o:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
it's a little early, the regatta starts the 21st of august, but who all is planning on going?

 

 

Two boats from Italy, 6+ from Michigan area, 1 from Seattle, 2+ (?) from Toronto - working on others from Annapolis, Tenn., Texas --- not sure if Pegasus team will attend but certainly hope so.

 

WWing

Melges 20 #132

 

 

OK, so let's start the list and update as we lead up to the event:

 

1- Value Team from Italy-- Benedetto Giallardo

2- Other Italian team (anyone know which team?)

3- Bacio - Michael Kiss / JP delSolar / Mitchell Kiss, Holland, MI

4- Flyer- Chuck Holzman / George Peet / Detroit MI

5- BlackJack - Marc Hollerbach / Nate Hollerbach Detroit MI

6- SuperFly - Eric Wynsma / John VanZee / Wally Cross -- Grand Rapids MI

7- Team Blink - John Arendshorst -- Holland MI

8- Erik Post -- Holland, MI

9- Simplified Sophistication -- Dave Hammett -- Annapolis, MD

10- White Wings -- Joe Williams -- Seattle, WA

11- Toronto boat #1-- Mike Wulfs

12- Toronot boat #2 -- ???

13- melges charter boat #1 (rumored to be dan c. ??

14- Melges charter boat #2 (not sure who rented this)

 

UNKNOWNS:

 

Pegasus 1

Pegasus 2

Tennessee guy

any of the FOUR boats in Texas

 

Harry said plan on 18 boats, but that was a month ago. Sounds like we may crack 20, pretty good for a first Nationals (insert Viper640.org brag session here, likely forthcoming) only FOUR MONTHS after our first ever regatta, in a shitty economy.

 

Can't wait.

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1sailor - off subject but do you know where the four Texas boats are? I know there are two in Houston - one is a dealer boat. Where are the other two. Reason for asking - we're putting together a sport-boat fleet for the NOOD down here and want those guys to come out..

 

Thanks in advance and good luck with your event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1sailor - off subject but do you know where the four Texas boats are? I know there are two in Houston - one is a dealer boat. Where are the other two. Reason for asking - we're putting together a sport-boat fleet for the NOOD down here and want those guys to come out..

 

Thanks in advance and good luck with your event.

 

 

Thanks Ultra ---

 

I talked to the guys at KO sailing, they have one "in stock" demo boat, and if memory serves had already sold 3 others. I'm certain that at least one of those had already been delivered.

 

But, I am old and retarded so it is entirely possible that my numbers are in error. I did see a picture of 2 on a hydro-hoist somewhere in TX. So, try the KO guys I guess for your leads...

 

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Charter boat #2 was snagged by J30 (big smiley face)

 

Crew:

Amy Todd (runmomrun) helm

Alex Stscherban (rallyracing) dealing with anything that requires brute force, strength, perhaps brains?

Dell Todd (J30) in charge of my smile

 

All Cat1's

 

I see we are forgetting The Infamous Guy?

 

See you there!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where's MBYC?

 

Mission Bay

Manhatten Beach

Menopause Babe

Manitoba Bayou

Men (in) Black

 

?? :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holland, MI actually Macatawa, MI

Macatawa Bay

Regattas are held in Lake Michigan except for Opti Green Fleet & phrf weeknights if its blowing more than 7 knots with 2 foot waves then we get to sail in Lake Mac (or so it seems sometimes)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1sailor - off subject but do you know where the four Texas boats are? I know there are two in Houston - one is a dealer boat. Where are the other two. Reason for asking - we're putting together a sport-boat fleet for the NOOD down here and want those guys to come out..

 

Thanks in advance and good luck with your event.

 

Ultra, definitely know of 2 in Houston (Mojo and the KO Demo boat). Last I heard Mojo was doing the Nationals.

 

There is another in Dallas on Lake Ray Hubbard (One Trick Pony).

 

Wish we could get more in TX, but I think the price is a major factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool Tac! DC, TB & Curtis (or is he busy w/Pegasus?), Suzy? who ya got?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Charter boat #1 is DC. I will be sailing with him.

 

PeaceFrog, who is your third ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure there's more coming but here's who has registered as per the organizing authorities:

2009 Audi Melges 20 US National Championship

 

Macatawa Bay Yacht Club

 

Competitor List

 

 

Nat Sail # Yacht Name Helm Home Town Club

USA Amy Todd Grand Rapids, MI USA Grand Rapids YC

ITA 112 Value Team Benedetto Giallongo Rome, Italy Planet Sail Bracciano

USA 127 Flyer Chuck Holzman Southfield, MI USA Crescent Sail YC

USA Dan Cheresh Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

USA 119 Simplified Sophistication Dave Hammett Annapolis, MD USA Severn Sailing Association

USA 116 Superfly Eric Wynsma East Grand Rapids, MI USA Grand Rapids YC

USA 130 Erik Post Macatawa, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

USA 132 Habit Joe Williams Mercer Island, WA USA Seattle Yacht Club

USA 17 Blink John Arendshorst Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

CAN 141 John Sherlock Mississauga, ON Canada Port Credit Club

USA 21 Blackjack Marc Hollerbach Grosse Pointe, MI USA Bayview YC

ITA 144 Sei Tu 20 Marco Morina Rome, Italy Ch Rimini / ASDU Sei Tu Sailing

USA 13 Bacio Michael Kiss Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

 

www.mbyc.com

www.melges20.com

Sailwave Scoring Software 1.94 Build 29

www.sailwave.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sure there's more coming but here's who has registered as per the organizing authorities:

2009 Audi Melges 20 US National Championship

 

Macatawa Bay Yacht Club

 

Competitor List

 

 

Nat Sail # Yacht Name Helm Home Town Club

USA Amy Todd Grand Rapids, MI USA Grand Rapids YC

ITA 112 Value Team Benedetto Giallongo Rome, Italy Planet Sail Bracciano

USA 127 Flyer Chuck Holzman Southfield, MI USA Crescent Sail YC

USA Dan Cheresh Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

USA 119 Simplified Sophistication Dave Hammett Annapolis, MD USA Severn Sailing Association

USA 116 Superfly Eric Wynsma East Grand Rapids, MI USA Grand Rapids YC

USA 130 Erik Post Macatawa, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

USA 132 Habit Joe Williams Mercer Island, WA USA Seattle Yacht Club

USA 17 Blink John Arendshorst Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

CAN 141 John Sherlock Mississauga, ON Canada Port Credit Club

USA 21 Blackjack Marc Hollerbach Grosse Pointe, MI USA Bayview YC

ITA 144 Sei Tu 20 Marco Morina Rome, Italy Ch Rimini / ASDU Sei Tu Sailing

USA 13 Bacio Michael Kiss Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

 

www.mbyc.com

www.melges20.com

Sailwave Scoring Software 1.94 Build 29

www.sailwave.com

 

Lots of talent in this regatta - I'm really looking forward to a great time and great racing!

 

We'll be out Thursday to tune up --- who all is planning to be out? Not sure if they have a practice race but I'll ping and find out -

 

WWing

 

Melges 20 #132

Habit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sure there's more coming but here's who has registered as per the organizing authorities:

2009 Audi Melges 20 US National Championship

 

Macatawa Bay Yacht Club

 

Competitor List

 

 

Nat Sail # Yacht Name Helm Home Town Club

USA Amy Todd Grand Rapids, MI USA Grand Rapids YC

ITA 112 Value Team Benedetto Giallongo Rome, Italy Planet Sail Bracciano

USA 127 Flyer Chuck Holzman Southfield, MI USA Crescent Sail YC

USA Dan Cheresh Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

USA 119 Simplified Sophistication Dave Hammett Annapolis, MD USA Severn Sailing Association

USA 116 Superfly Eric Wynsma East Grand Rapids, MI USA Grand Rapids YC

USA 130 Erik Post Macatawa, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

USA 132 Habit Joe Williams Mercer Island, WA USA Seattle Yacht Club

USA 17 Blink John Arendshorst Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

CAN 141 John Sherlock Mississauga, ON Canada Port Credit Club

USA 21 Blackjack Marc Hollerbach Grosse Pointe, MI USA Bayview YC

ITA 144 Sei Tu 20 Marco Morina Rome, Italy Ch Rimini / ASDU Sei Tu Sailing

USA 13 Bacio Michael Kiss Holland, MI USA Macatawa Bay YC

 

www.mbyc.com

www.melges20.com

Sailwave Scoring Software 1.94 Build 29

www.sailwave.com

 

Lots of talent in this regatta - I'm really looking forward to a great time and great racing!

 

We'll be out Thursday to tune up --- who all is planning to be out? Not sure if they have a practice race but I'll ping and find out -

 

WWing

 

Melges 20 #132

Habit

 

SuperFly will be sailing wed. night and will be tuning on Thursday from 12:00 - 5:00 or so. Whether or not there is a practice race, we can get a few boats together and tune together.

 

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Racing cancelled today, sea state wouldn't let them get out of the bay. We will be there tomorrow to shoot and chat with the peeps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Racing cancelled today, sea state wouldn't let them get out of the bay. We will be there tomorrow to shoot and chat with the peeps.

 

 

rock n roll Clean - see you here! Went out onto the lake in a 43' Hinkley to see what the waves looked like - we got bounced around pretty good -- big, square - and lots of breakers in 25kn -- the swell in the channel out was pretty big. Would have been rugged getting out - way out where the race area is located was still very stacked up with breaking waves.

Wind tomorrow is supposed to swing more NW so should help the sea state.

 

WWing

sailing bow no. 40

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any news today?

 

3 races - breeze on and big waves - thundershowers and cold --- but a blast downhill! More to come ----

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Race Day 1 Results

Wind 16kn - 25kn

4-6' waves

 

Very challenging conditions for Day 1 of the Melges 20 US National Championships - lots of wipeouts and smiling faces at the end of the day!

 

Standings

 

post-1227-1250995312_thumb.jpg

 

Great party Saturday night -

 

Fantastic downwind work - super fast and really fun today - more to come tomorrrow!

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any news today?

 

3 races - breeze on and big waves - thundershowers and cold --- but a blast downhill! More to come ----

 

WWing

 

 

photos from today at www.layline.photoreflect.com

 

couple of teaser shots ----

 

post-1227-1250997770_thumb.jpg

 

post-1227-1250997783_thumb.jpg

 

post-1227-1250997797_thumb.jpg

 

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how bad is the ripped out stantion on bacio? I took a look...just flat out ripped out, what's the story?

 

In mfg. -- stainless bolt on an threaded aluminum fitting....over-torqued during assembly and the threads stripped. Loaded during a wipeout and pulled the remaining threads through the bolt. With mfg. moving back to Zenda this kind of mfg. quality control problem will be a thing of the past.

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any news today?

 

3 races - breeze on and big waves - thundershowers and cold --- but a blast downhill! More to come ----

 

WWing

 

 

photos from today at www.layline.photoreflect.com

 

couple of teaser shots ----

 

post-1227-1250997770_thumb.jpg

 

post-1227-1250997783_thumb.jpg

 

post-1227-1250997797_thumb.jpg

 

 

WWing

 

 

Those are photos from Layline photography supplied to MBYC. About 200 more posted at www.layline.photoreflect.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Results? Its 630pm, whats the hold up?

 

I don't have the exact results, but one race today in very, very light wind (boat(s) protested the RC, but ultimately was disallowed) - wind was too low for further racing, so was called off at about 1:30pm --- Eric Wynsma on Superfly won the race today and with that win took the Nationals title. Marc Hollerbach was second for the regatta, followed by Pieter T on Bliksem. John Arendshorst was fourth and Dave Hammett was fifth.

I finished a disappointing 9th but learned a ton and was able to reconnect with friends in Macatawa - and meet a lot of new M20 sailors from US, Canada, and Italy. The club did a great job, and the RC work was excellent (thanks Roger in case you're reading).

 

Fantastic schedule coming in the winter with 3 Florida regattas (Dec 11-13; Feb 5-7; March 11-13) and then Charleston RW April 7-11. Check out melges20.com for the press release and the full schedule for the circuit - incl. US Nationals next year in Zenda.

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome! Congrats to Eric Wynsma, Wally Cross and JP Del Solar Goldsmith!!!! Yesterday looked like amazing sailing!

 

Results? Its 630pm, whats the hold up?

 

I don't have the exact results, but one race today in very, very light wind (boat(s) protested the RC, but ultimately was disallowed) - wind was too low for further racing, so was called off at about 1:30pm --- Eric Wynsma on Superfly won the race today and with that win took the Nationals title. Marc Hollerbach was second for the regatta, followed by Pieter T on Bliksem. John Arendshorst was fourth and Dave Hammett was fifth.

I finished a disappointing 9th but learned a ton and was able to reconnect with friends in Macatawa - and meet a lot of new M20 sailors from US, Canada, and Italy. The club did a great job, and the RC work was excellent (thanks Roger in case you're reading).

 

Fantastic schedule coming in the winter with 3 Florida regattas (Dec 11-13; Feb 5-7; March 11-13) and then Charleston RW April 7-11. Check out melges20.com for the press release and the full schedule for the circuit - incl. US Nationals next year in Zenda.

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that we missed the big wind day, but I did get a few shots from today's racing for y'all.

 

To see the rest of my photos from day 3, go HERE

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_1.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_2.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_3.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_4.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_5.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_6.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_7.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_8.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_9.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_1__1_.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_2__1_.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_3__1_.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_4__1_.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_5__1_.jpg

2009_MELGES_20_NATIONALS___BY_MEREDITH_BLOCK_6__1_.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well what an interesting weekend! I think that this is the first regatta that I have sailed where I never rounded a weather mark!

 

First race we had a decent beat went to put the kite up and the sheet got hung up on the head as it went up. We wiped out because we could not ease the sheet. Dumped the halyard right at the wrong time, big wave crashed over us and pulled the kite down under the boat and we went for the best Lake Michigan shrimp :) Race over.

 

Second race, great start, really good beat, we rounded the top mark in 4th. Took off blasting downwind, did our gybe, no issues there and about a minute later plugged into the back of the a wave and bang! A few seconds late we realized that it was the rudder, big wipe out pick up the pieces and try to get a tow back to the club. End of day 1

 

Yesterday, had a decent start, got punted to the right and never really came out of it. I think we were 9th?

 

DC had a great time, these are great little boats. I still like the Viper, sorry WWing had to say that :), Looking forward to sailing more in the future! Great service by Andy and Harry after we broke the rudder they had a new one on the boat within an hour of us hitting the dock.

 

This is one of the reasons that they are moving production to Zenda.

 

Congrats to my boy 1Sailor for winning the regatta.

Cheers

 

TB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well what an interesting weekend! I think that this is the first regatta that I have sailed where I never rounded a weather mark!

 

First race we had a decent beat went to put the kite up and the sheet got hung up on the head as it went up. We wiped out because we could not ease the sheet. Dumped the halyard right at the wrong time, big wave crashed over us and pulled the kite down under the boat and we went for the best Lake Michigan shrimp :) Race over.

 

Second race, great start, really good beat, we rounded the top mark in 4th. Took off blasting downwind, did our gybe, no issues there and about a minute later plugged into the back of the a wave and bang! A few seconds late we realized that it was the rudder, big wipe out pick up the pieces and try to get a tow back to the club. End of day 1

 

Yesterday, had a decent start, got punted to the right and never really came out of it. I think we were 9th?

 

DC had a great time, these are great little boats. I still like the Viper, sorry WWing had to say that :), Looking forward to sailing more in the future! Great service by Andy and Harry after we broke the rudder they had a new one on the boat within an hour of us hitting the dock.

 

This is one of the reasons that they are moving production to Zenda.

 

Congrats to my boy 1Sailor for winning the regatta.

Cheers

 

TB

 

What happened to the rudder? Too much load and the fin snapped? Mfg defect? Glad to hear it was fixed quickly. Also curious if any water got into the boats on the big air day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess the rudder is a build issue, again a reason why Harry is going to build them in house. Our boat was bone dry inside, until we had to open the cockpit storage to get the motor out after we busted the rudder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Congrats to my boy 1Sailor for winning the regatta.

Cheers

 

TB

 

 

Thank you my brutha. What a weekend. Still not sure what to think, but I can tell you it felt pretty good to walk around the yacht club yesterday. People checking our boat setup, people asking questions. People just generally really happy for me. I really like the people in this class, and look forward to more of same in the future!

 

Great to see you and Dan (I won't call him DC) on the same boat again, talking smack and having a blast.

 

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taselaar's rudder snapped at the bottom gudgeon when they went out for a big air sail on Friday. His interview is up as is everyone else's. Links coming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taselaar's rudder snapped at the bottom gudgeon when they went out for a big air sail on Friday. His interview is up as is everyone else's. Links coming.

 

The moment any boat had an issue it was attended to with immediacy by Harry Andy & Coy. Amazing shoreside support from Melges Boat Works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taselaar's rudder snapped at the bottom gudgeon when they went out for a big air sail on Friday. His interview is up as is everyone else's. Links coming.

 

Thanks for putting up the innerviews Clean. Taselaar's take is interesting - about it being an old mans boat. I don't the champ is any older than Pieter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Taselaar's rudder snapped at the bottom gudgeon when they went out for a big air sail on Friday. His interview is up as is everyone else's. Links coming.

 

Clean, haven't seen the interview yet, but did you get the scoop on the North's they were using for the event? Was that a dacron main and a regular kevlar jib setup a la Melges 24 style? Is this something North will be offering to all the Melges 20 customers. I guess the most important question is were they faster than the 3DL's?

 

Bummer about these rudder issues, thought they had it fixed by now. Glad to hear the follow up service was good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our idiotic false start on Saturday, when we went out into the Lake, couldn't see the racing, went back into the Bay to find the boats, couldn't find them, and turned around only to see the boats coming in through the channel at 1:20 PM. Very odd day.

 

 

 

 

 

Race 4 Part 1:

 

 

 

Race 4 Part 2:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Race 5 "Start" was blown off shortly afterwards.

 

 

 

Mike Wolfs

 

 

 

 

JP De Solar (Juan Pablo De Solar Goldsmith), Chilean wunderkind and pro sailor/coach

http://web.me.com/jpdelsolarg

Now how'd he get the MOT last name??

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little bit of Chuck Holzman and then a long one with PRO (and MBYC Commodore) Roger Gamache explains what the breeze did and more importantly, talks about the Canada's Cup.

 

 

 

Part 2:

 

 

 

The Italian "Killer" explains why he didn't kill so much in Michigan. This guy is hilarious.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a pretty funny interview with Adam Hollerbach and the family affair that is Black Jack.

 

 

 

Harry Melges talks about the move from Maconaghy, and then my video card dies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And here's the Taselaar interview - I think that he pretty clearly states that to him, the M20 is just not the place for a full-on Grand Prix attitude. Whether it is an old man's boat or not isn't the issue - the issue is the feel of the regattas - something Taselaar isn't on the same page with the fleet at the M20 Nats.

 

Anyways, I like the guy.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just sayin...his innerview if filmed 24 hrs previously would have been entirely different ! They were really fast on Saturday.

 

Tell Bear it was just a little Flying Scot regatta for the family?

 

Fact: Most boats had either huge M24 &/or M32 experience and or pros, some had very good M20 experience, so the M20 class is off to a sweet Grad Prix start.

 

It's not my fight, I don't want to sound like I'm trying to fight it but Pieter is getting on it Pod style bro. How bout that?

 

The Bliksem's proved to be a touch insulting on many levels (Hey it's SA way !) - after they won the wrong end in R4 and paid up for it and perhaps still had their boat setup for the heavy air - which was perfect in heavy air (while ours was all off, first day in the boat it blows a stink with some seastate).

 

Win On The Water mates!

 

...more to follow this story keep posted & posting updates...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your comments J30. There is clearly a core of people who love the boat, and what I think is pretty special is the family nature of it - maybe the first sportboat that really can be marketed for that purpose. The market will decide if there is enough demand.

 

I think Pieter was pissed for a pile of reasons, and I only had time to learn of a couple. I'm sure we'll learn more down the road. In the meantime, the fact that the class was able to get it together for even a low-key national championship is certainly a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for your comments J30. There is clearly a core of people who love the boat, and what I think is pretty special is the family nature of it - maybe the first sportboat that really can be marketed for that purpose. The market will decide if there is enough demand.

 

I think Pieter was pissed for a pile of reasons, and I only had time to learn of a couple. I'm sure we'll learn more down the road. In the meantime, the fact that the class was able to get it together for even a low-key national championship is certainly a good thing.

 

 

Well the reasons pieter mentioned as well as the reasons stated in your innerviews with other competitiors, seem to be consistant with what I myself have heard, and to be honest, with what I've seen and heard, they all had very legit reasons to be upset. If I were any of the competitiors other than Eric Wynsma and crew, I would personally be very upset with the way the regatta was run, don't get me wrong they put on a good regatta, MBYC is always a good venue, but the racing aspect of the regatta was below average.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for your comments J30. There is clearly a core of people who love the boat, and what I think is pretty special is the family nature of it - maybe the first sportboat that really can be marketed for that purpose. The market will decide if there is enough demand.

 

I think Pieter was pissed for a pile of reasons, and I only had time to learn of a couple. I'm sure we'll learn more down the road. In the meantime, the fact that the class was able to get it together for even a low-key national championship is certainly a good thing.

 

 

Well the reasons pieter mentioned as well as the reasons stated in your innerviews with other competitiors, seem to be consistant with what I myself have heard, and to be honest, with what I've seen and heard, they all had very legit reasons to be upset. If I were any of the competitiors other than Eric Wynsma and crew, I would personally be very upset with the way the regatta was run, don't get me wrong they put on a good regatta, MBYC is always a good venue, but the racing aspect of the regatta was below average.

 

great lakes racer, how do you mean this exactly ? What were those reasons

to 'be upset' ? What made the "racing aspect of the regatta below average?" Were you there and know the 'reasons' to be factual ?

 

Should there have been no racing all weekend, since Saturday built to mid 20-s and the RC boat was in fear of swamping in the 6-9 footers ? and Sunday faded away from the 5-6 we started in and therefore shouldn't have been sailed at all ? Our class rule says no starting a race in 23 + consistently with puffs to 25. It also says that it's up to the RC's discretion to decide whether or not to cancel a race which migrates upwardly from that range after starting. Additionally, we're not to start a race in less than 4 knots, which we didn't do.

 

MBYC did a good job at trying to get in as many races as reasonably possible under the circumstances, largely in the interest of having an actual regatta for many teams who travelled from around the world to be here.

 

If we'd sailed a 1-day regatta, people would bitch about that too. No racing would have been worse still. Sailing Friday was outta the question. 25-30 and huge seas. Saturday some of us woulda liked more than 3 for sure, but as I said above the RC had challenges that were concerning to them.

 

I'm not truly sure what shoulda been done differently. Conditions were not 'ideal' for most boats at any point during the regatta, we dealt with what we had. My guys did a great job keeping the boat moving, using basic tactical strategies to keep us in the money on Sunday and positioning our boat to prosper from coniditions that were reasonable to expect. Don't take that away from them.

 

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree that ending the racing at 1pm on Saturday was a little early BUT I cant believe that Melges or local politics had anything to do with that decision. Isn't that call squarely on the shoulders of the PRO? He/She made the call and that is that. Or was their a radio call or conversation?

 

3 races is reasonable number for most regatta's. 6 in one day such at M24 gold cup is brutal! Impressive but brutal. I have only seen that in Laser's frankly.

 

That said I think there is a little "media bias" in the last interview when the M20 defined as an old mans boat or a family boat and it is immediately reinforced as fact, etc. Keep in mind the guy is PO'd and feels robbed, so he is not going to give it his unbiased opinion. I agree that Saturday night he might have felt considerably different about the boat. I hope this audience is more intelligent than that exchange!

 

I believe that this is a great first major M20 event when the first Nationals of M24 or Viper640 is considered. How many boats where at those inaugural events? 10? 20? This is a good first nationals especially in this economy and in this competitive market. And Europe is spinning up at the same time which is fairly unique and impressive.

 

In 10 years will the M20 exceed 50 boats for nationals and probably more for Worlds...I guarantee it. Might be 5 years!

 

Congrats to everyone who competed in a tough regatta in terms of weather. The laid back nature that is defined as a negative in that interview will be hard to maintain as this class grows. I hope it is maintained as much as possible. Cut throat pro classes screw up most of the cool boats. Maybe the 20 will spare itself!

 

Thanks for your comments J30. There is clearly a core of people who love the boat, and what I think is pretty special is the family nature of it - maybe the first sportboat that really can be marketed for that purpose. The market will decide if there is enough demand.

 

I think Pieter was pissed for a pile of reasons, and I only had time to learn of a couple. I'm sure we'll learn more down the road. In the meantime, the fact that the class was able to get it together for even a low-key national championship is certainly a good thing.

 

 

Well the reasons pieter mentioned as well as the reasons stated in your innerviews with other competitiors, seem to be consistant with what I myself have heard, and to be honest, with what I've seen and heard, they all had very legit reasons to be upset. If I were any of the competitiors other than Eric Wynsma and crew, I would personally be very upset with the way the regatta was run, don't get me wrong they put on a good regatta, MBYC is always a good venue, but the racing aspect of the regatta was below average.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for your comments J30. There is clearly a core of people who love the boat, and what I think is pretty special is the family nature of it - maybe the first sportboat that really can be marketed for that purpose. The market will decide if there is enough demand.

 

I think Pieter was pissed for a pile of reasons, and I only had time to learn of a couple. I'm sure we'll learn more down the road. In the meantime, the fact that the class was able to get it together for even a low-key national championship is certainly a good thing.

 

 

Well the reasons pieter mentioned as well as the reasons stated in your innerviews with other competitiors, seem to be consistant with what I myself have heard, and to be honest, with what I've seen and heard, they all had very legit reasons to be upset. If I were any of the competitiors other than Eric Wynsma and crew, I would personally be very upset with the way the regatta was run, don't get me wrong they put on a good regatta, MBYC is always a good venue, but the racing aspect of the regatta was below average.

 

great lakes racer, how do you mean this exactly ? What were those reasons

to 'be upset' ? What made the "racing aspect of the regatta below average?" Were you there and know the 'reasons' to be factual ?

 

Should there have been no racing all weekend, since Saturday built to mid 20-s and the RC boat was in fear of swamping in the 6-9 footers ? and Sunday faded away from the 5-6 we started in and therefore shouldn't have been sailed at all ? Our class rule says no starting a race in 23 + consistently with puffs to 25. It also says that it's up to the RC's discretion to decide whether or not to cancel a race which migrates upwardly from that range after starting. Additionally, we're not to start a race in less than 4 knots, which we didn't do.

 

MBYC did a good job at trying to get in as many races as reasonably possible under the circumstances, largely in the interest of having an actual regatta for many teams who travelled from around the world to be here.

 

If we'd sailed a 1-day regatta, people would bitch about that too. No racing would have been worse still. Sailing Friday was outta the question. 25-30 and huge seas. Saturday some of us woulda liked more than 3 for sure, but as I said above the RC had challenges that were concerning to them.

 

I'm not truly sure what shoulda been done differently. Conditions were not 'ideal' for most boats at any point during the regatta, we dealt with what we had. My guys did a great job keeping the boat moving, using basic tactical strategies to keep us in the money on Sunday and positioning our boat to prosper from coniditions that were reasonable to expect. Don't take that away from them.

 

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

 

 

 

 

1sailor, I'm not trying to take anything away from what you and your crew did, you all sailed an exceptional regatta. what I am saying is that the class rules clearly need to be adjusted. 2-leg races are absurd. so to be only able to get off 3 TWO-LEG races on saturday, and have the boats in around 1, is just plain WRONG. had there been more races on saturday, they results MAY have been different, I am by no means saying they would have been, just saying they could have been. another issue is the fact that they scheduled this regatta to have THREE DAYS of racing, that's just awful, three days of racing for the first ever u.s. national championship for the class?! 4 races should by no means constitute a u.s. national championship for the melges 20. the PRO should have scheduled at least 4-5 days of racing, 4 would have been great, or at the very least one make-up day, maybe race thur-sat and leave sunday as a make-up day, or something along those lines. that's what made the racing aspect of the regatta below average...four races should not constitute what is essentially your class championship. while I did not compete, I am a local, and yes I was there, the reasons are not necessarily 'factual' but they seem to pretty well represent what the majority of people feel about the regatta, thus while they are more opinionated than factual, they still should be taken into consideration. I understand you feel very accomplished, first ever u.s. national champion for the melges 20 fleet, congratulations! you have earned the right to feel accomplished, but do not tell me you weren't dissapointed with the way the racing turned out for the regatta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great lakes racer - you were there? it doesnt sound like it.

 

you have some wires crossed mixed w/rumor and you appear to be building from that weak foundation

 

saturday was all 2 LAP races / 4 legs, 3 races completed with 2 more on the amended schedule. the USCG who had hauled in one M20 on a side tie rescue on Thursday and thus became aware of the regatta called the R/C to inform them of yet another rain squall was approaching the fleet and they were questioning the sanity of continuing racing under the wind & wave conditions. Our boat and some others were ready for the wind to lie down just a touch so we might get 5 races in, under manageable wind but no, it kept building. It's not like the R/C quit on it Saturday, geez I'm not sure they really should have started the 3rd race! (we didn't) I'm not sure what other fleet, PRO and R/C combination would have been ready to rock on Saturday. It sure wasn't the nascent Melges 32 fleet when they were brand new. They stayed tied to the docks for a 20 knot class max at first, hey!?

 

2 leg /1 lap races are standard procedure to try to get in as many races as possible in a series when the air is light. we had one of those races complete, the other three completed races were 2 laps.

 

The plan for Saturday was for 5 races! You were there(?), it built right on thru & beyond class max conditions till 4 of us (of 14) were off the course for R3!

 

class rules state that 3 races constitue a series

 

we came for a planned series of 3, 3 & 2 daily races over 3 days for a total of 8 races. races start 11am with a 10am harbor gun. The R/C, bless em, amended that an hour earlier that we might get 5 races and 3 races (after Friday's sad blowout).

 

the majority of sailors in the regatta were pleased with the efforts of the PRO and his R/C under very difficult weather conditions, but were disappointed with the weather. if you weren't on the water and didnt see the effort they put in then it's tough to call the question. they put in a great effort, and did not have much to work with, weather wise. On the scene, I did not witness any disappointment with the R/C only the WX.

 

the racing was hot

 

that was the coolest 14 boat fleet of sailors you could imagine

 

this boat has legs it will catch on. the boat is sweet. playing with it, tuning it, racing it, it's fun. the legs in hiking changes the dynamics, I like it. It might be cool to have a legs in Melges 24 corinthian class

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

j30, yes I was there, and I know that after friday the intent of the RC was to race 5 and 3, the wind was predicted to be very light saturday, taking that into consideration, they most likely should have started a 4th race on saturday, to ensure they got off more than the bare minimum as you stated of three races to constitute a series. that is something that needs to be changed. most of the class now should know that the class limits need to be adjusted, along with the fact that 3 races should not constitute a series. I'm just rather dissointed that they only got off four races total. granted this is a family boat, and thus most could not attend a week long regatta like the etchells worlds, but there still needs to be one make-up day scheduled. the RC did an OK job, maybe OK is to the best of their abilities I do not know, not to be rude, I'm just a blunt person. I also understand that this is a new fleet and some limits were pushed to what was presumed to be the fullest extent this weekend, now they know that they can handle a bit more than they anticipated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so, all in all, I suppose the regatta was run the way the rules called for, my complaint is no longer with the last regatta, but actually with future regattas, class rules need to be changed, and hopefull they will be. I understand the fact that most people are still figuring out the boat and what it's limits are, hopefully they treat this as a learning experience, I know that I myself am disspointed in the fact that your first class championship consisted of four races, treat this as a learning experience and adjust your class rules accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A spare day still makes it a 4 day regatta, which many just can not do. Even if you don't need the day, you still have to be ready for that.

 

Boss, I might be at work, but if there is no wind Sunday then I won't be, so just look out the window, and you will know maybe, possibly that I might be at work, though....

 

Why do people have to carry on and whinge when not involved?

 

Lots of places would never sail if they had a 4knot limit, how about the guys that sail in the class makes their rules, oh wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so, all in all, I suppose the regatta was run the way the rules called for, my complaint is no longer with the last regatta, but actually with future regattas, .

 

 

Great Lakes Racer, I now realize that I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

 

We cannot change the weather. We can change the rules, but what would we change them to ?

 

I don't think you listened--- the RC had concerns about swamping the boat, and had 6-9' waves breaking on their foredeck and after 3 races saturday 4 boats had retired with 'issues'. Sunday was light air. The RC tried to give us as real of a regatta as they could under the circumstances served up by the weather. Deal wtih it.

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am saying is that the class rules clearly need to be adjusted. 2-leg races are absurd.

 

No, we sailed 4-leg races with the exception of Sunday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so, all in all, I suppose the regatta was run the way the rules called for, my complaint is no longer with the last regatta, but actually with future regattas, .

 

 

Great Lakes Racer, I now realize that I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

 

We cannot change the weather. We can change the rules, but what would we change them to ?

 

I don't think you listened--- the RC had concerns about swamping the boat, and had 6-9' waves breaking on their foredeck and after 3 races saturday 4 boats had retired with 'issues'. Sunday was light air. The RC tried to give us as real of a regatta as they could under the circumstances served up by the weather. Deal wtih it.

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

We certainly saw nothing remotely close to 9' when we poked our heads out the channel at 12:30 or so. Definitely 4'-6', but nothing bigger, and we moved around a bit in what is the lumpiest piece of water over there. We were able to do 45 knots in the Fountain before having to throttle back a bit - couldn't do that in 6' - 9' waves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watch the video for race 4. It was obviously a shitshow.

 

But guess what! Shitshows are part of sailboat racing. We've all been in hundreds of them in our lives. That's just part of the game. We've all been on the winning and losing end of those.

 

Shitshow or not all of the boats started at the same place and needed to finish in the same place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Watch the video for race 4. It was obviously a shitshow.

 

But guess what! Shitshows are part of sailboat racing. We've all been in hundreds of them in our lives. That's just part of the game. We've all been on the winning and losing end of those.

 

Shitshow or not all of the boats started at the same place and needed to finish in the same place.

amen brother

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 w/ Fetz.

 

Hey Clean re: front page article:

Bliksem finished 7th in R4, for a 12 to compare to 11's from SuperFly (two bullets) and Blackjack (one win)

They did a great job of picking up quite a bit after a horrendous start in R4.

 

Bliksem was burning fast in the heavy air Saturday

 

On Saturday most waves were 6's and some were quite a bit bigger and would hide the entire boat from view. I'm surprised you didn't see some of the bigger waves but given enough time out there you would have seen them, whatever their exact size (big, from a M20!).

 

Pieter is only too glad to talk about his opinion of the PRO & the R/C and insists on insultingly attaching this age thing to the boat while not discussing his decision to win the wrong end of the line instead of covering his competition on the pin end, then magnifying his mistake by not getting over to the pressure on the left and not having competitive light air boat speed. So I guess I'll have to be the one to point these things out. It's not like he executed his responsibilities perfectly. I can only guess that he's likely frustrated with their own mistakes, and they see casting blame as their out. He casts aspersions on the level of professionalism and yet is crying mightily, still, to try to win it.

 

See start race 5 (abandoned) for more video evidence of Bliksem's lack of light air pace and bad starts in light air (may have taken every transom). The M20's around them apparently had it figured out. Perhaps the others were all old guys. Oh wait I guess not cuz I don't think the SuperFlys are older than Pieter, but it's not an age graded race anyway so age is not relevant.

 

Trivia: Bliksem is Afrikaaner meaning to hit to strike to punch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
j30, yes I was there, and I know that after friday the intent of the RC was to race 5 and 3, the wind was predicted to be very light saturday, taking that into consideration, they most likely should have started a 4th race on saturday, ...clip... now they know that they can handle a bit more than they anticipated.

 

glr,

 

You were in Holland, MICHIGAN, this weekend, right? Not the Bliksem Netherlands / other Holland?

 

The forecast for Saturday looked like this: Windy. Really Windy. Wavy. (and that is what went down)

The forecast for Sunday looked like this: NW 10-20 4 foot waves (which did not go down, I think the new NW had a tough time breaking thru before the time limit)

 

The boat will be a laugh riot on Biscayne Bay this winter for the 3 regattas they have planned down there.

 

See ya out there sometime, & cheers,

Dell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Watch the video for race 4. It was obviously a shitshow.

 

But guess what! Shitshows are part of sailboat racing. We've all been in hundreds of them in our lives. That's just part of the game. We've all been on the winning and losing end of those.

 

Shitshow or not all of the boats started at the same place and needed to finish in the same place.

 

 

Thanks Fetz, agree entirely and -- just for the record-- the videos showing the super light drifty conditions were actually of the start of race #5, which was (correctly) abandoned due to light conditions. Race #4 was ugly too, but was started in more breeze than what's shown in the video...

 

Thanks have a great day !

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

j30, yes holland MI, the most lovely place in the world :D and 1sailor. by stating that my complaint is with future regattas, I mean that the class rules need to be adjusted, I firmly believ that the waves were not a consistantt 6-9 ft, maybe the occasional 7-8 footer, but they were a consistant 4-6 which the M20 proved it can handle. everything looks bigger while you're on the water, that's something we all know...us sailors love to over-estimate things, like wind speed and wave height. Even clean said they "weren't remotely close to 9ft"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
j30, yes I was there, and I know that after friday the intent of the RC was to race 5 and 3, the wind was predicted to be very light saturday, taking that into consideration, they most likely should have started a 4th race on saturday, ...clip... now they know that they can handle a bit more than they anticipated.

 

glr,

 

You were in Holland, MICHIGAN, this weekend, right? Not the Bliksem Netherlands / other Holland?

 

The forecast for Saturday looked like this: Windy. Really Windy. Wavy. (and that is what went down)

The forecast for Sunday looked like this: NW 10-20 4 foot waves (which did not go down, I think the new NW had a tough time breaking thru before the time limit)

 

The boat will be a laugh riot on Biscayne Bay this winter for the 3 regattas they have planned down there.

 

See ya out there sometime, & cheers,

Dell

Heya Dell - in the interest of accuracy, Sailflow was calling for 5-7 on Saturday when we were in the car headed to MBYC at 11 or so. Regardless, if you'd like to pen a reply to the FP story, send it on and we'll run it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven’t posted in a while, but I feel compelled to respond to this thread. First, I’d like to congratulate Eric, Wally, and JP for a well-sailed event.

 

I sailed on Black Jack, and I am in a unique position to weigh in on the last race, as our second place finish for the event was not affected. In short, the last race was a crap shoot, but that’s the way sailboat racing goes sometimes. In my opinion the wind had been consistently above 4 knots when we started, though I could not confirm that electronically. It certainly dropped below the class limit during the race, but that fact by itself is not enough to compel the PRO to abandon. Whether or not it was a fair race depends on your perspective. I can’t say what I would have done had I been the PRO. I’m sure there was plenty of pressure to get another race off. We had only sailed one day of a three day event. The fact is that we did race. It was a shitty race, but it was legal. Everyone has a story about that shift/puff/hole that came in out of nowhere and cost the event. We curse the committee for not abandoning and we move on with our lives.

 

As the tactician on Black Jack, I’d like to expand on a point made earlier by J30. Before the start, the wind direction was swinging through a huge range with no consistent timing. Neither side was obviously favored. What we knew was that Super Fly was 2 points behind us, and we didn’t want to give them any leverage. For that reason we started near the leeward end of the line with them and worked our way up the left side of the course. The first thing I did after the start was look for Bliksem’s Dacron main and they were on port tack, charging out to the right. I’m no professional sailor, but it seems pretty basic that you should stay somewhat close to your competition when you are winning the regatta; especially when you know that the conditions are highly unpredictable. As it turned out, the breeze died right-to-left.

 

Back in junior sailing I learned the single most important rule about the sport: If you win the event and you haven’t won the respect of your competitors, then you have won nothing. When we got off the water on Sunday, before the interview, I was thinking that the guys on Bliksem sailed a hell of an event. I said as much to Willem on the dock as soon as we got in. I thought it sucked that that they got caught on the wrong side of a crap-shoot race. But Mr. Taselaar’s actions since then have nullified any respect he earned on the water.

 

His behavior has been at best juvenile and at worst insulting. Like a spoiled brat, he skipped the awards after losing his redress. Then he spouted off about the race committee, the class, and his competitors in an interview with Clean. And just to make sure enough people heard him whine, he sent an email echoing what he had said on camera. He comes off looking like an epic douche without any help, so normally I would just leave it at that. What spurred my response is that I feel personally insulted by his comments about the class being for “old men” and “guys who just want to sail with their kids.” If Mr. Taselaar were to give the award to the oldest skipper in the fleet he would give it to second place finisher, Marc Hollerbach, who also happened to be sailing with his kids. He isn’t a grandfather yet…as far as I know. But so what if he were? Does the fact that the boat is manageable by 60-year-olds and teenagers alike make it any less competitive? I struggle to find fault with a one-design boat that is totally controllable at 16-18 knots of boat speed in 6-8 foot waves.

 

We should all regard Mr. Taselaar’s rant for what it is: the sniffle-laden wails of a crybaby. A sore loser. A poor sportsman.

 

-Adam Hollerbach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I haven’t posted in a while, but I feel compelled to respond to this thread. First, I’d like to congratulate Eric, Wally, and JP for a well-sailed event.

 

I sailed on Black Jack, and I am in a unique position to weigh in on the last race, as our second place finish for the event was not affected. In short, the last race was a crap shoot, but that’s the way sailboat racing goes sometimes. In my opinion the wind had been consistently above 4 knots when we started, though I could not confirm that electronically. It certainly dropped below the class limit during the race, but that fact by itself is not enough to compel the PRO to abandon. Whether or not it was a fair race depends on your perspective. I can’t say what I would have done had I been the PRO. I’m sure there was plenty of pressure to get another race off. We had only sailed one day of a three day event. The fact is that we did race. It was a shitty race, but it was legal. Everyone has a story about that shift/puff/hole that came in out of nowhere and cost the event. We curse the committee for not abandoning and we move on with our lives.

 

As the tactician on Black Jack, I’d like to expand on a point made earlier by J30. Before the start, the wind direction was swinging through a huge range with no consistent timing. Neither side was obviously favored. What we knew was that Super Fly was 2 points behind us, and we didn’t want to give them any leverage. For that reason we started near the leeward end of the line with them and worked our way up the left side of the course. The first thing I did after the start was look for Bliksem’s Dacron main and they were on port tack, charging out to the right. I’m no professional sailor, but it seems pretty basic that you should stay somewhat close to your competition when you are winning the regatta; especially when you know that the conditions are highly unpredictable. As it turned out, the breeze died right-to-left.

 

Back in junior sailing I learned the single most important rule about the sport: If you win the event and you haven’t won the respect of your competitors, then you have won nothing. When we got off the water on Sunday, before the interview, I was thinking that the guys on Bliksem sailed a hell of an event. I said as much to Willem on the dock as soon as we got in. I thought it sucked that that they got caught on the wrong side of a crap-shoot race. But Mr. Taselaar’s actions since then have nullified any respect he earned on the water.

 

His behavior has been at best juvenile and at worst insulting. Like a spoiled brat, he skipped the awards after losing his redress. Then he spouted off about the race committee, the class, and his competitors in an interview with Clean. And just to make sure enough people heard him whine, he sent an email echoing what he had said on camera. He comes off looking like an epic douche without any help, so normally I would just leave it at that. What spurred my response is that I feel personally insulted by his comments about the class being for “old men” and “guys who just want to sail with their kids.” If Mr. Taselaar were to give the award to the oldest skipper in the fleet he would give it to second place finisher, Marc Hollerbach, who also happened to be sailing with his kids. He isn’t a grandfather yet…as far as I know. But so what if he were? Does the fact that the boat is manageable by 60-year-olds and teenagers alike make it any less competitive? I struggle to find fault with a one-design boat that is totally controllable at 16-18 knots of boat speed in 6-8 foot waves.

 

We should all regard Mr. Taselaar’s rant for what it is: the sniffle-laden wails of a crybaby. A sore loser. A poor sportsman.

 

-Adam Hollerbach

I refuse to jump on the +1 bandwagon, but Adam's post is right f-in on (+1). Well done this weekend, and today again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My only thought is Eric should stay out of this,

 

I raced against him when he was rushed, insatiated, on the fringe and then he very very much stepped up his program when he went to the Mumm.

 

He was an outsanding sailor throughout and more importantly, a great sportsman.

 

He should be basking in being the best of what might have been a not perfect situation, but it was the same for all.

 

Congratulations Eric, bask

 

PS A year from now the controversy will be long forgotten

 

PPS Peanut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr Clean

 

Thanks for the offer. I would enjoy doing that but I have become very short on time trying to get caught up while also spending far too much time on the Bliksem soap opera.

 

I would like to have you post Adam's much better story, with his permission and perhaps he can polish it out for the front page or perhaps he might run it as it is. However, Adam Hollerbach, what a wonderful regatta you, your father Mark, and your brother Ian had, hats off to you Hollerbachs, a classy sailing family, and also what a concise encapsulation of your opinion of events. I honestly could not add anything further to what has now been said. I think it's all out there. I was trying to make sure that the other side of Pieter's would be heard and I am now satisfied that the two sides of the coin are public.

 

Re; the weather, we had been finding sailflow in error Wednesday, Thursday & Friday, while we had found the NWS to be much closer so we were monitoring that instead and perhaps they had updated NWS also after I saw it quite early before boat prepping and early dock out, only a quick check of the text based nearshore forecast products then off to try to get used to the new boat. It hadn't changed yet from the NW10-20 4-6' forecast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+2, understandable to see the frustration and unfortunate to see the poor choices in terms of his comments. If its just an old man's boat then why would he care so much as to protest? He wanted to show up and win this thing and almost did. Everyone knows that, but thats sailing.

 

Having sailed the boat a few times now, I see the M20 is a thinkers sportboat. You win by out preparing your competitors. Huge gains to be made in understanding the finer elements of tuning the rig, sail designs, driving well is absolutely KEY, trimming sails well and in coordination with the steering (very small rudder, must keep helm neutral all the time), boat handling, and of course tactics & strategy. You cant simply whip your crew into hiking harder than your competition and be fast. This is a great thing but will take some getting used to. In this boat you have to rely on developing and maintaining solid boat speed and know how and when to change gears throughout the range of conditions. Each wind range requires a slightly new method of sailing fast.

 

By being non-hiking it is not completely un-physical, but it takes the grind of a boat like a M24 or Viper out of the equation and makes sailing much more manageable for the team. With the European wave in the SB3 class and now the M20 in the USA, its clear that a non-hiking movement has arrived.

 

The M24 to some extent and definitely the Viper SA mob remain somewhat threatened by M20 and are always quick to jump on opportunities to label it poorly. The guy from NY took advantage of that when he got upset and I'll bet he regrets it. Simple as that. He has an awesome M32 program. I hope he dusts himself off and gets refocused on that program. I hope he wins the upcoming Worlds! He is clearly a great sailor with a great team behind him.

 

I believe that the Melges 20 will have a tremendous long term impact on North American sailing. It is a new kind of sailing and people will like it when they finally get a chance try it.

 

 

I haven’t posted in a while, but I feel compelled to respond to this thread. First, I’d like to congratulate Eric, Wally, and JP for a well-sailed event.

 

I sailed on Black Jack, and I am in a unique position to weigh in on the last race, as our second place finish for the event was not affected. In short, the last race was a crap shoot, but that’s the way sailboat racing goes sometimes. In my opinion the wind had been consistently above 4 knots when we started, though I could not confirm that electronically. It certainly dropped below the class limit during the race, but that fact by itself is not enough to compel the PRO to abandon. Whether or not it was a fair race depends on your perspective. I can’t say what I would have done had I been the PRO. I’m sure there was plenty of pressure to get another race off. We had only sailed one day of a three day event. The fact is that we did race. It was a shitty race, but it was legal. Everyone has a story about that shift/puff/hole that came in out of nowhere and cost the event. We curse the committee for not abandoning and we move on with our lives.

 

As the tactician on Black Jack, I’d like to expand on a point made earlier by J30. Before the start, the wind direction was swinging through a huge range with no consistent timing. Neither side was obviously favored. What we knew was that Super Fly was 2 points behind us, and we didn’t want to give them any leverage. For that reason we started near the leeward end of the line with them and worked our way up the left side of the course. The first thing I did after the start was look for Bliksem’s Dacron main and they were on port tack, charging out to the right. I’m no professional sailor, but it seems pretty basic that you should stay somewhat close to your competition when you are winning the regatta; especially when you know that the conditions are highly unpredictable. As it turned out, the breeze died right-to-left.

 

Back in junior sailing I learned the single most important rule about the sport: If you win the event and you haven’t won the respect of your competitors, then you have won nothing. When we got off the water on Sunday, before the interview, I was thinking that the guys on Bliksem sailed a hell of an event. I said as much to Willem on the dock as soon as we got in. I thought it sucked that that they got caught on the wrong side of a crap-shoot race. But Mr. Taselaar’s actions since then have nullified any respect he earned on the water.

 

His behavior has been at best juvenile and at worst insulting. Like a spoiled brat, he skipped the awards after losing his redress. Then he spouted off about the race committee, the class, and his competitors in an interview with Clean. And just to make sure enough people heard him whine, he sent an email echoing what he had said on camera. He comes off looking like an epic douche without any help, so normally I would just leave it at that. What spurred my response is that I feel personally insulted by his comments about the class being for “old men” and “guys who just want to sail with their kids.” If Mr. Taselaar were to give the award to the oldest skipper in the fleet he would give it to second place finisher, Marc Hollerbach, who also happened to be sailing with his kids. He isn’t a grandfather yet…as far as I know. But so what if he were? Does the fact that the boat is manageable by 60-year-olds and teenagers alike make it any less competitive? I struggle to find fault with a one-design boat that is totally controllable at 16-18 knots of boat speed in 6-8 foot waves.

 

We should all regard Mr. Taselaar’s rant for what it is: the sniffle-laden wails of a crybaby. A sore loser. A poor sportsman.

 

-Adam Hollerbach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I was out there spectating, it was really windy Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, the weather bouy about 30 miles West was showing 23-28 knots and 5' waves, that means there were some 8's out there.

 

What boat was going 45 knots in that? A dick boat running with the waves, I believe that, but so what, when the CG calls the RC you have to think there's some real wind, they aren't really into that type of comms. If you tell me for a second you were going into that shit at 45 knots you are on crack.

 

The RC at MBYC is top notch, this isn't their first regatta, they don't need defending they did what they could in the conditions that were there.

 

Since I'm just a lake sailor I'll refrain from calling wave heights, BUT they were washing over the piers and I saw virtually no boats come out and make any effort at staying out. When the wind blows that hard with that much fetch (say 200 miles) it might be a little bumpy.

 

Cool boat, super fast, we had to get on it to keep up a couple of times, and they are tough boats too.

 

Great class and it will grow, what support too....great job M20's. These boats have been sailing for less than a year and 16 showed up in August in Michigan! That's awesome.

 

L8r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Having sailed the boat a few times now, I see the M20 is a thinkers sportboat. You win by out preparing your competitors. Huge gains to be made in understanding the finer elements of tuning the rig, sail designs, driving well is absolutely KEY, trimming sails well and in coordination with the steering (very small rudder, must keep helm neutral all the time), boat handling, and of course tactics & strategy. You cant simply whip your crew into hiking harder than your competition and be fast. This is a great thing but will take some getting used to. In this boat you have to rely on developing and maintaining solid boat speed and know how and when to change gears throughout the range of conditions. Each wind range requires a slightly new method of sailing fast.

 

Hmm. Every racing sailboat requires all the things you mention, and for this crowd, your insight falls into the area of the bleeding obvious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "Viper Mob" has been entire restrained. I for one have always pegged the M20 as the non-hiking boat that will succeed in the US (along with the Viper as the hiking boat), and I'm glad you all had fun.

 

It seems the M20's are doing fine stirring up shit on their own, without any help from outside. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My only thought is Eric should stay out of this,

 

I raced against him when he was rushed, insatiated, on the fringe and then he very very much stepped up his program when he went to the Mumm.

 

He was an outsanding sailor throughout and more importantly, a great sportsman.

 

He should be basking in being the best of what might have been a not perfect situation, but it was the same for all.

 

Congratulations Eric, bask

 

PS A year from now the controversy will be long forgotten

 

PPS Peanut

 

 

Thank you for your kind words-- now i'm left trying to figure out who you are !

 

My thanks also to Adam Hollerbach for an excellent summary of the salient facts in this whacky ordeal.

 

You guys see there is a similar thread over on SA main forum about the 'angry dutchman' ?

 

Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. Was an interesting read for sure.

 

Eric Wynsma

USA 116 SuperFly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I'm repeating someone else's perspective; no interest in reading it all as I know it would only p me off. Sounds like hotshot is afraid to be beaten by 'old men and kids'. Sad that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good gawd. Just watched the Taselaar interview. What a gigantic asshole.

 

He may be.

 

BUT

 

Running the last race for a North American Championships in those conditions was a pretty dumb decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Find all of this a bit amusing at the first nationals given the boats original design brief.....

 

"the spirit of the Audi Melges 20 is custom designed to appeal to the amateur (Category 1) Corinthian driver. It is the easiest sportboat to sail on the market today. For women and juniors, the Audi Melges 20 has low load sheets making it very simple for individuals of all ages, physique and skill levels to sail."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites