Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Editor

Alinghi broke?

Recommended Posts

FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

post-31389-1252103758_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

 

MSP, is that you? assume another identity cause everyone's on to your bullshit? Are you gonna be a space pilot in your next halucination? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

I think I'm the one that mentioned 5 day cure cycles - if that's what you're referring to as "bull shit".

 

I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not. Carbon shavings ?? Simply a comment.

 

FYI my five day cure is up tomorrow, and 'm taking the boat out in 25 knot winds to check everything out.

 

For reference, the structural carbon fiber specialist has done extensive work on four AC campaigns, and the naval architect is heavily involved with the STP 65 design rule, has designed several recent mega yachts, has also been involved in multiple AC designs as has the mast manufacturer.

 

Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom as an SA poster, can shed some light on what these people deeply embedded in the industry with their careers and reputation on the line, don't yet know.

 

Go buy a boat and put your own money on the line before coming up with your "bull shit" ignorant comments.

 

I suggest you get educated instead of embarrassing yourself.

 

Plain and simple, Alinghi broke structurally and their trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

Accept the facts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

I think I'm the one that mentioned 5 day cure cycles - if that's what you're referring to as "bull shit".

 

I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not. Carbon shavings ?? Simply a comment.

 

FYI my five day cure is up tomorrow, and 'm taking the boat out in 25 knot winds to check everything out.

 

For reference, the structural carbon fiber specialist has done extensive work on four AC campaigns, and the naval architect is heavily involved with the STP 65 design rule, has designed several recent mega yachts, has also been involved in multiple AC designs as has the mast manufacturer.

 

Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom as an SA poster, can shed some light on what these people deeply embedded in the industry with their careers and reputation on the line, don't yet know.

 

Go buy a boat and put your own money on the line before coming up with your "bull shit" ignorant comments.

 

I suggest you get educated instead of embarrassing yourself.

 

Plain and simple, Alinghi broke structurally and their trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

Accept the facts.

What was the resin system used? A link to a data sheet will suffice.

 

Your constant referral that the carbon requires curing, rather than the resin doesn't do a lot for you trying to appear knowledgable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not.

This is all well and good but from what was shown, I didn't see any prepreg being used or any oven set up. Nothing of significance was taken off the boat and I believe all the work was done outside. I am not sure how they managed to vacuum bag, heat and cure the stuff when it was outside like that without us seeing some pretty obvious signs. In addition, there would have been time needed to strip down and prepare the parts, ensure a key was created so any new laminate consolidated with the old stuff. That makes the idea that they did nany carbon work that needed 5 days to cure highly unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

Yakka

 

Go blow it out your ass, if you can remove MSPs tongue from it.

 

We've had idiots that believe the hulls were built from one mould, people who can't figure what a line of symmetry is, carbon fibre shavings and 5 day cure cycles.

 

Yup, the information just flows round here.

 

Your 2 cents above fits in pretty well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not.

This is all well and good but from what was shown, I didn't see any prepreg being used or any oven set up. Nothing of significance was taken off the boat and I believe all the work was done outside. I am not sure how they managed to vacuum bag, heat and cure the stuff when it was outside like that without us seeing some pretty obvious signs. In addition, there would have been time needed to strip down and prepare the parts, ensure a key was created so any new laminate consolidated with the old stuff. That makes the idea that they did nany carbon work that needed 5 days to cure highly unlikely.

 

 

This may be the first time I have agreed with your words Simon. There was no indication of the materials, tools and systems present to complete a significant structural repair. Only a padded cover on the crossbeam that does not appear to provide any vacuuming or heat.

 

I think a minor breakage and repair (although nothing is minor with these beasts) fixed in less than a week. Both teams are suffering breakdowns as part of the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not.

This is all well and good but from what was shown, I didn't see any prepreg being used or any oven set up. Nothing of significance was taken off the boat and I believe all the work was done outside. I am not sure how they managed to vacuum bag, heat and cure the stuff when it was outside like that without us seeing some pretty obvious signs. In addition, there would have been time needed to strip down and prepare the parts, ensure a key was created so any new laminate consolidated with the old stuff. That makes the idea that they did nany carbon work that needed 5 days to cure highly unlikely.

 

 

This may be the first time I have agreed with your words Simon. There was no indication of the materials, tools and systems present to complete a significant structural repair. Only a padded cover on the crossbeam that does not appear to provide any vacuuming or heat.

 

I think a minor breakage and repair (although nothing is minor with these beasts) fixed in less than a week. Both teams are suffering breakdowns as part of the process.

It is possible that carbon and curing work might have happened not on the boat but in the building right beside it. AMICO is one hell of a facility, they have autoclaves and they build mega yachts. We can't know if the 5 days is just a coincidence or not, but SW's suggestion is certainly a relevant and interesting one to consider.

 

My silly-wild-ass guess is it was one of the carbon 'rig' lines underneath that snapped and the process of replacing it and then balancing all the forces up again just took time.

 

Btw, did they sail yesterday? Today?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did not sail yesterday, too much wind, the webcam was showing white caps... I could not check the webcam today, now A5 is at the same spot, I think they did not sail but i dont know for sure...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

They announced it would be getting significant modifications 3 weeks ago. It was all planned, for sure.

 

The tents over the foils suggest the first enhancements will be done in that area. Should be fun to watch, I hope Dal drops by again for more pics. The fact they did not put it in the tent ~may~ suggest they are using the tent for prepping other gear, to be installed on the boat. There is a rumor suggesting the tent got even bigger just recently, but I can't confirm it yet from any of the recent Dal photographs. Maybe a closer look can do it?

 

On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

Putting aside that this is the wrong thread:

If not for the fact that we have several high-rez shots not showing any damage, pictures of it being lifted out without any special precautions taken for damage, high-rez shots of it sitting there without any signs of damage or support for same, the fact that they've said repeatedly for months that they're not done modifying it, the fact that they have extensive sail time with her already so can afford to take their time and do it right, and the fact that you're a gigantic tool; then yes, it could be there's some damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

They announced it would be getting significant modifications 3 weeks ago. It was all planned, for sure.

 

The tents over the foils suggest the first enhancements will be done in that area. Should be fun to watch, I hope Dal drops by again for more pics. The fact they did not put it in the tent ~may~ suggest they are using the tent for prepping other gear, to be installed on the boat. There is a rumor suggesting the tent got even bigger just recently, but I can't confirm it yet from any of the recent Dal photographs. Maybe a closer look can do it?

 

On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

They could hold another "Aren't we awesome?" press conference. Pose for more face shots. Sew uniforms in yet another new color pattern. Enjoy the soft glow of EB's god-like sailing ability. Fly back home to their native countries for a few days. Or just bad-mouth BOR for Marian's next column.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

No problem. Chainsaw and duck tape. Only take 5 days. That should cure it! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

They announced it would be getting significant modifications 3 weeks ago. It was all planned, for sure.

 

The tents over the foils suggest the first enhancements will be done in that area. Should be fun to watch, I hope Dal drops by again for more pics. The fact they did not put it in the tent ~may~ suggest they are using the tent for prepping other gear, to be installed on the boat. There is a rumor suggesting the tent got even bigger just recently, but I can't confirm it yet from any of the recent Dal photographs. Maybe a closer look can do it?

 

On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

 

 

BRO SR--

 

THEY CAN LET ALL THAT NEW GENOA--CARBON FABRICATIONS CURE MORE AS SW S POSTED-

 

AND I AGREE WITH HIM FOR THE RECORD-HAVING DONE THAT WORK -MYSELF-SINCE 1970-

 

THE PISS ANTS TALK ABOUT RESIN ETC----BS---THE TERM IS ADVANCE COMPOSITE--==RESIN WITH ___>

 

-ITS THE TERM--THAT WE IN THE TRADE USE--GLASS-CARBON-KEVLAR- WE USE THE SHORTEST DESCRP AS POSSIBLE-WE DONT USE THE WHOLE FRGING TERM -

 

WE ALL USE THE TERM THAT WAY-IE 'GLASS CURING ,CARBON CURING, KEVLAR CURING-

 

RESIN HAS SATURATED ___ SO-ITS NOT JUST RESIN ANYMORE --EITHER--SO --BTM LINE THE BITCH BROKE SOME PARTS- MORE WILL BREAK-ARE BROKEN--

 

 

 

ALSO THE DEATH TRAP TEAM NEEDS TO GET FRGING READY FOR COURT-

 

THE ALINGHI 3 RING CIRCUS IS BEING SHUT DOWN

 

WARNING ---DONT BUY ANY TICKETS FOR ANY SNG ALINGHI CIRCUS SHOWS--

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

They announced it would be getting significant modifications 3 weeks ago. It was all planned, for sure.

 

The tents over the foils suggest the first enhancements will be done in that area. Should be fun to watch, I hope Dal drops by again for more pics. The fact they did not put it in the tent ~may~ suggest they are using the tent for prepping other gear, to be installed on the boat. There is a rumor suggesting the tent got even bigger just recently, but I can't confirm it yet from any of the recent Dal photographs. Maybe a closer look can do it?

 

On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

 

 

BRO SR--

 

THEY CAN LET ALL THAT NEW GENOA--CARBON FABRICATIONS CURE MORE AS SW S POSTED-

 

AND I AGREE WITH HIM FOR THE RECORD-HAVING DONE THAT WORK -MYSELF-SINCE 1970-

 

THE PISS ANTS TALK ABOUT RESIN ETC----BS---THE TERM IS ADVANCE COMPOSITE--==RESIN WITH ___>

 

-ITS THE TERM--THAT WE IN THE TRADE USE--GLASS-CARBON-KEVLAR- WE USE THE SHORTEST DESCRP AS POSSIBLE-WE DONT USE THE WHOLE FRGING TERM -

 

WE ALL USE THE TERM THAT WAY-IE 'GLASS CURING ,CARBON CURING, KEVLAR CURING-

 

RESIN HAS SATURATED ___ SO-ITS NOT JUST RESIN ANYMORE --EITHER--SO --BTM LINE THE BITCH BROKE SOME PARTS- MORE WILL BREAK-ARE BROKEN--

 

 

 

ALSO THE DEATH TRAP TEAM NEEDS TO GET FRGING READY FOR COURT-

 

THE ALINGHI 3 RING CIRCUS IS BEING SHUT DOWN

 

WARNING ---DONT BUY ANY TICKETS FOR ANY SNG ALINGHI CIRCUS SHOWS--

Agreed, the big-ass 'correction' about it being resins curing not carbon was a pointless diversion from if the '5 days' was sigificant or not as a clue about if they had to fix broken carbon. On the rest, lol :)

 

I guessed above that a rod had broken; if it did then they may want to upgrade other similar parts too. The same could be true if it were the Y strut, or almost anything else that was determined to be the weak link. And the photos did suggest attention was being given in the area of both Y struts. So basically, all the 'sister' parts would surely need beefing up too? The fact they did get one full day sail this week, and that it is still in the water, probably means they figure it's good to go again - weather permitting. But again, I can't think of more than 4 days they have sailed so far, after arriving August 7 in Genoa, and splashing it not until the 15th. It can't possibly be the ideal schedule..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"webcam was showing white caps..."

 

 

oooh, sounds very scary. good thing they stayed on the beach

 

Better on the beach then being loaded on top of a bunch of containers, no?

 

What happened with the DOG? It has been reported that it suffered some kind of damage. They seem to have put the DOG high up which leads one to belive that it must be some sort of serious under-body damage that neesd to be repaired. Why else would they have to risk putting the boat in such a precarious position? Imagine if it slipped of the container, the DOG might suffered even more serious damage, maybe unrepairable?

 

It looks like they are preparing for an extended period of time for repairs, how will that impact their training and preparations? With the rudder modifications that still have to be done, every day would be important, one would think? BOR seems to be very relaxed about this repair and set back ..... very strange?

They announced it would be getting significant modifications 3 weeks ago. It was all planned, for sure.

 

The tents over the foils suggest the first enhancements will be done in that area. Should be fun to watch, I hope Dal drops by again for more pics. The fact they did not put it in the tent ~may~ suggest they are using the tent for prepping other gear, to be installed on the boat. There is a rumor suggesting the tent got even bigger just recently, but I can't confirm it yet from any of the recent Dal photographs. Maybe a closer look can do it?

 

On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

 

 

BRO SR--

 

THEY CAN LET ALL THAT NEW GENOA--CARBON FABRICATIONS CURE MORE AS SW S POSTED-

 

AND I AGREE WITH HIM FOR THE RECORD-HAVING DONE THAT WORK -MYSELF-SINCE 1970-

 

THE PISS ANTS TALK ABOUT RESIN ETC----BS---THE TERM IS ADVANCE COMPOSITE--==RESIN WITH ___>

 

-ITS THE TERM--THAT WE IN THE TRADE USE--GLASS-CARBON-KEVLAR- WE USE THE SHORTEST DESCRP AS POSSIBLE-WE DONT USE THE WHOLE FRGING TERM -

 

WE ALL USE THE TERM THAT WAY-IE 'GLASS CURING ,CARBON CURING, KEVLAR CURING-

 

RESIN HAS SATURATED ___ SO-ITS NOT JUST RESIN ANYMORE --EITHER--SO --BTM LINE THE BITCH BROKE SOME PARTS- MORE WILL BREAK-ARE BROKEN--

 

 

 

ALSO THE DEATH TRAP TEAM NEEDS TO GET FRGING READY FOR COURT-

 

THE ALINGHI 3 RING CIRCUS IS BEING SHUT DOWN

 

WARNING ---DONT BUY ANY TICKETS FOR ANY SNG ALINGHI CIRCUS SHOWS--

Agreed, the big-ass 'correction' about it being resins curing not carbon was a pointless diversion from if the '5 days' was sigificant or not as a clue about if they had to fix broken carbon. On the rest, lol :)

 

I guessed above that a rod had broken; if it did then they may want to upgrade other similar parts too. The same could be true if it were the Y strut, or almost anything else that was determined to be the weak link. And the photos did suggest attention was being given in the area of both Y struts. So basically, all the 'sister' parts would surely need beefing up too? The fact they did get one full day sail this week, and that it is still in the water, probably means they figure it's good to go again - weather permitting. But again, I can't think of more than 4 days they have sailed so far, after arriving August 7 in Genoa, and splashing it not until the 15th. It can't possibly be the ideal schedule..

 

 

TRUE--

 

AND THE GINGER -NESS OF THE DEATH TRAP--

 

1 FT WAVES MAX- 4 KNTS WIND MAX-

 

I HAVE SEEN RADIO CONTROLLED BOATS HANDLE STIFFER --CONDITIONS- LOL

 

ITS NO MAGIC THINKING THEY PARKED AT THE DOCK OF A FEW CARBON FABRICATORS-IN GENOA--NOW WE KNOW WHY-

 

-FOR FAST 5 DAY TURN AROUND AND MAKING ALL THOSE NEW PARTS-

 

 

WELL AT LEAST THE ALIGNHI APOLOGIST -- CHEESESQUEEZERS--ASTROTURFIST---TROLLZILLAS--HAVE PLENTY TO DEFEND AND EXPLAIN AWAY--==LOSING---LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

 

"TROLLZILLAS" tooooo funnnnnnyyyyyy!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

Amusing that the Alinghi forecasts includes the one for San Diego. I wonder how many of them are there? Great sailing conditions :)

 

2m6tmdl.jpg

 

Here's the extended Genoa forecast

 

106f47q.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

Amusing that the Alinghi forecasts includes the one for San Diego. I wonder how many of them are there? Great sailing conditions :)

 

2m6tmdl.jpg

 

Here's the extended Genoa forecast

 

106f47q.jpg

 

 

HOPEFULLY FOR HARBOR SAFETY --THEY GOT THAT DEATH TRAP TIED GOOD --

 

WITH THOSE HOWLING 15 KNT WINDS THERE-

 

THE DEATH TRAP MIGHT CAPSIZE IN THE HARBOR/ AT THE DOCK--UNDER BARE POLES [sOME BROKE]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

I think I'm the one that mentioned 5 day cure cycles - if that's what you're referring to as "bull shit".

 

I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not. Carbon shavings ?? Simply a comment.

 

FYI my five day cure is up tomorrow, and 'm taking the boat out in 25 knot winds to check everything out.

 

For reference, the structural carbon fiber specialist has done extensive work on four AC campaigns, and the naval architect is heavily involved with the STP 65 design rule, has designed several recent mega yachts, has also been involved in multiple AC designs as has the mast manufacturer.

 

Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom as an SA poster, can shed some light on what these people deeply embedded in the industry with their careers and reputation on the line, don't yet know.

 

Go buy a boat and put your own money on the line before coming up with your "bull shit" ignorant comments.

 

I suggest you get educated instead of embarrassing yourself.

 

Plain and simple, Alinghi broke structurally and their trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

Accept the facts.

 

 

a cure cycle tells how long and at what temp the resin system needs to be cooked at to achieve full cure. Some cure at room temp, and may take some days,depending on the ambient temp, to reach their full cure. If you are in a hurry you apply some heat to shorten the cure time. So to imagine that these guys were sitting around for 5 days waiting for their resin to cure is a little ignorant. So what if Alinghi are trying to downplay the damage(if there was any)How many breakages do you think BOR has had so far? Oh and by the way I hope our experts weren't charging you by the day....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

I think I'm the one that mentioned 5 day cure cycles - if that's what you're referring to as "bull shit".

 

I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not. Carbon shavings ?? Simply a comment.

 

FYI my five day cure is up tomorrow, and 'm taking the boat out in 25 knot winds to check everything out.

 

For reference, the structural carbon fiber specialist has done extensive work on four AC campaigns, and the naval architect is heavily involved with the STP 65 design rule, has designed several recent mega yachts, has also been involved in multiple AC designs as has the mast manufacturer.

 

Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom as an SA poster, can shed some light on what these people deeply embedded in the industry with their careers and reputation on the line, don't yet know.

 

Go buy a boat and put your own money on the line before coming up with your "bull shit" ignorant comments.

 

I suggest you get educated instead of embarrassing yourself.

 

Plain and simple, Alinghi broke structurally and their trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

Accept the facts.

 

A 5 day cure 'cycle' is total fucking nonesense! As Offshore pointed out there are a variety of epoxies that have different pot lifes and cure times (not cycles) and some can be accelerated with heat. An average room temp cure epoxy with an average pot life will cure (90+%) overnight but will not see full (99%) cure for about 28 days. However a visit to 120F for 4 - 6 hours will give a full cure. There is no way other than a repair at sea that you would use a room temp system for any structural repair for many reasons. For a start, it is very difficult to match the properties and behaviour of the pre-preg part that you're repairing and even with bagging and heating they always end up with a higher resin/fiber ratio.

 

Pre-pregs require higher temperatures to cure at all, and to allow the resin to flow and cure monolithically about the fibers. They cure at a specific temperature, typically 250F - 350F, sometimes as high as 450F for high temp applications, and require a precise ramp rate. The ramp rate is typically 1F per min to temp, a set flow time and a ramp down at 1F. Once at room temp they are fully cured and ready for service. There are a few excellent portable repair environment systems on the market that will bag and control temperature precisely enough to effect perfect repairs.

 

The time to make a fully structural repair on a composite part depends entirely on the number of layers in the area that were damaged or distressed. A structural failure in such a high load area as has been suggested here would take weeks rather than days to repair and the repair process would have been very easy to see.

 

Perhaps that was just a diversion? Get your tin foil hats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

I think I'm the one that mentioned 5 day cure cycles - if that's what you're referring to as "bull shit".

 

I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not. Carbon shavings ?? Simply a comment.

 

FYI my five day cure is up tomorrow, and 'm taking the boat out in 25 knot winds to check everything out.

 

For reference, the structural carbon fiber specialist has done extensive work on four AC campaigns, and the naval architect is heavily involved with the STP 65 design rule, has designed several recent mega yachts, has also been involved in multiple AC designs as has the mast manufacturer.

 

Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom as an SA poster, can shed some light on what these people deeply embedded in the industry with their careers and reputation on the line, don't yet know.

 

Go buy a boat and put your own money on the line before coming up with your "bull shit" ignorant comments.

 

I suggest you get educated instead of embarrassing yourself.

 

Plain and simple, Alinghi broke structurally and their trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

Accept the facts.

 

A 5 day cure 'cycle' is total fucking nonesense! As Offshore pointed out there are a variety of epoxies that have different pot lifes and cure times (not cycles) and some can be accelerated with heat. An average room temp cure epoxy with an average pot life will cure (90+%) overnight but will not see full (99%) cure for about 28 days. However a visit to 120F for 4 - 6 hours will give a full cure. There is no way other than a repair at sea that you would use a room temp system for any structural repair for many reasons. For a start, it is very difficult to match the properties and behaviour of the pre-preg part that you're repairing and even with bagging and heating they always end up with a higher resin/fiber ratio.

 

Pre-pregs require higher temperatures to cure at all, and to allow the resin to flow and cure monolithically about the fibers. They cure at a specific temperature, typically 250F - 350F, sometimes as high as 450F for high temp applications, and require a precise ramp rate. The ramp rate is typically 1F per min to temp, a set flow time and a ramp down at 1F. Once at room temp they are fully cured and ready for service. There are a few excellent portable repair environment systems on the market that will bag and control temperature precisely enough to effect perfect repairs.

 

The time to make a fully structural repair on a composite part depends entirely on the number of layers in the area that were damaged or distressed. A structural failure in such a high load area as has been suggested here would take weeks rather than days to repair and the repair process would have been very easy to see.

 

Perhaps that was just a diversion? Get your tin foil hats!

 

 

WHAT YOU POST ABOVE IS ALL POSSIBLE-

 

AND SINCE YOU DONT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT REPAIRS WERE DONE- MOST OF US-DONT KNOW EXACTLY EITHER-

 

-THEN EVEN YOUR VERBAGE ALSO INCLUDES THE 5 DAY --ETC--IS HIGHLY VIABLE=POSSIBLE-==NOT NONSENSE-

 

SINCE MOST OF US DONT KNOW --ITS A REASONABLE GUESS-

 

YOUR WEEKS ETC DURATION IS LESS POSSIBLE THEN THE 5 DAY-ER--FROM WHAT WE HAVE SEEN-

 

AS YOU POINTED OUT THERES MANY WAYS AND METHODS- 5 DAY ONE IS JUST AS GOOD AS ANY --

 

 

 

BTM LINE IT ISNT NONSENSE-- BUT THATS YOUR OP. FINE -

 

ALSO IF THE RAMROD DID BREAK-THEY WOULD JUST MAKE A NEW ONE--OR R AND R -INSTALL NEW ONE--

 

 

ITS A DISCUSSION-- VAGUE -SURE-- WE JUST ALL SHOOTING THE BS -POSSIBLES--

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FROM --YACHT YAKKA------A REALLY GOOD WEBSITE WITH LOTS OF OTHER SAILING -RACING--ETC--

 

SCROLL DOWN YOU WILL SEE IT-

 

 

-HAS BUTTERWONDER --WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER--

 

NOW HE LOOKS LIKE HAMBURGER HELPERS POSTER BOY--NEW SNG-ALINGHI SPONSORE

 

 

 

 

http://yachtyakka.co.nz/2009/09/yachting-n...september-2009/

 

Alinghi team skipper gives his take on the August sea trials

(Photo credit: Guido Trombetta/Alinghi)

 

Alinghi has had several weeks of successful sea trials in Genoa, Italy, where the Defender has been testing and training the new catamaran Alinghi 5 ahead of shipping it to the 33rd America's Cup Venue in Ras al Khaimah, UAE, for the Match in February next year.

 

"We have had excellent conditions for sea trials here," said team skipper Brad Butterworth, "we've managed to stretch our legs a bit in a lot more space than on Lake Geneva and have pushed the boat hard. We've had a few breakages along the way, but you expect that with a new boat, it's all part of the development process towards the Cup

 

 

 

next year in Ras al-Khaimah."

 

Weather has cancelled play today, so the team is shore based for maintenance.

 

[ WASHING THOSE SOILED KNICKERS FROM ALL THE POPS AND BANGS--FLYING DEBRIS FROM FAILED CARBON RAMRODS -]

Look out for CNN mainsail later this month featuring yesterday's shoot of Alinghi 5 sailing in Genoa, Italy.

 

more here

 

more about Brad Butterworth here

Every time you open your mouth (type) regarding structures and failiures, you confirm that your knowledge is limited at best.

 

I don't believe that you have any inside knowledge of the Alinghi boat regarding enginnering of the structure, construction of or sailing of the boat.

 

On what basis do you consider it to be a death trap? if you could reply in english rather than pidgen, it may make your reasoning a little clearer.

 

hey blowhard, there is more wave face information here on these forums than anywhere else in the world, you ranting on about someone's opinion

shows the level of your understanding...knot.

 

Yeah there is plenty of info here, but when people rabbit on about "carbon shavings" and "5 day cure cycles" you know most of it is bullshit. The blind leading the blind

I think I'm the one that mentioned 5 day cure cycles - if that's what you're referring to as "bull shit".

 

I just had one of the top carbon fiber structural specialists in the US do some extensive work on my boat relocating the chainplates to accommodate a new rig, built by the same company that built Alinghi's masts. His input, along with the naval architect, an engineer by education, and the mast manufacturer all concurred that it takes five days to fully cure vacuum bagged carbon fiber cooked at the maximum temperature of 165 degrees before you can safely fully load it.

 

Coincidence that Alinghi was off the water for 5 days ?? I think not. Carbon shavings ?? Simply a comment.

 

FYI my five day cure is up tomorrow, and 'm taking the boat out in 25 knot winds to check everything out.

 

For reference, the structural carbon fiber specialist has done extensive work on four AC campaigns, and the naval architect is heavily involved with the STP 65 design rule, has designed several recent mega yachts, has also been involved in multiple AC designs as has the mast manufacturer.

 

Maybe you, in your infinite wisdom as an SA poster, can shed some light on what these people deeply embedded in the industry with their careers and reputation on the line, don't yet know.

 

Go buy a boat and put your own money on the line before coming up with your "bull shit" ignorant comments.

 

I suggest you get educated instead of embarrassing yourself.

 

Plain and simple, Alinghi broke structurally and their trying to downplay it as much as possible.

 

Accept the facts.

 

A 5 day cure 'cycle' is total fucking nonesense! As Offshore pointed out there are a variety of epoxies that have different pot lifes and cure times (not cycles) and some can be accelerated with heat. An average room temp cure epoxy with an average pot life will cure (90+%) overnight but will not see full (99%) cure for about 28 days. However a visit to 120F for 4 - 6 hours will give a full cure. There is no way other than a repair at sea that you would use a room temp system for any structural repair for many reasons. For a start, it is very difficult to match the properties and behaviour of the pre-preg part that you're repairing and even with bagging and heating they always end up with a higher resin/fiber ratio.

 

Pre-pregs require higher temperatures to cure at all, and to allow the resin to flow and cure monolithically about the fibers. They cure at a specific temperature, typically 250F - 350F, sometimes as high as 450F for high temp applications, and require a precise ramp rate. The ramp rate is typically 1F per min to temp, a set flow time and a ramp down at 1F. Once at room temp they are fully cured and ready for service. There are a few excellent portable repair environment systems on the market that will bag and control temperature precisely enough to effect perfect repairs.

 

The time to make a fully structural repair on a composite part depends entirely on the number of layers in the area that were damaged or distressed. A structural failure in such a high load area as has been suggested here would take weeks rather than days to repair and the repair process would have been very easy to see.

 

Perhaps that was just a diversion? Get your tin foil hats!

Nice post,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

Amusing that the Alinghi forecasts includes the one for San Diego. I wonder how many of them are there? Great sailing conditions :)

 

2m6tmdl.jpg

 

Here's the extended Genoa forecast

 

106f47q.jpg

 

 

HOPEFULLY FOR HARBOR SAFETY --THEY GOT THAT DEATH TRAP TIED GOOD --

 

WITH THOSE HOWLING 15 KNT WINDS THERE-

 

THE DEATH TRAP MIGHT CAPSIZE IN THE HARBOR/ AT THE DOCK--UNDER BARE POLES [sOME BROKE]

 

kilometers an hour !! so it's to windy at 8knots

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Cheezilla, apparently the wind is just too strong. It looked like it would be that way thru at least Sunday, when I last looked at the forecast box shown at Alinghi. That would mean one sail in the past ten days, that just has to hurt their test-up timeline, but perhaps they have other activities they can do, to make good use of the time anyway?

Amusing that the Alinghi forecasts includes the one for San Diego. I wonder how many of them are there? Great sailing conditions :)

 

2m6tmdl.jpg

 

Here's the extended Genoa forecast

 

106f47q.jpg

 

 

HOPEFULLY FOR HARBOR SAFETY --THEY GOT THAT DEATH TRAP TIED GOOD --

 

WITH THOSE HOWLING 15 KNT WINDS THERE-

 

THE DEATH TRAP MIGHT CAPSIZE IN THE HARBOR/ AT THE DOCK--UNDER BARE POLES [sOME BROKE]

 

kilometers an hour !! so it's to windy at 8knots

Don't let factual information get in the way round here, supposition is preferred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They could hold another "Aren't we awesome?" press conference. Pose for more face shots. Sew uniforms in yet another new color pattern. Enjoy the soft glow of EB's god-like sailing ability. Fly back home to their native countries for a few days. Or just bad-mouth BOR for Marian's next column.

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

I think you will find that BOTH teams are equally bad at having home sailors on the team. According to the BOR website, there are only 2 Americans in a team of 26, with 10 Kiwis. At least the Swiss manage to get 3 nationals into their team of 20, but even they have 8 Kiwis!

 

Second highest is Italy with 6 and 2 on the teams, respecitvely. Surprised not to see many French in there considering their success with multihulls over the years, although Alinghi do have Alain Gaultier, Loick Peyron and Franck Profitt advising them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They could hold another "Aren't we awesome?" press conference. Pose for more face shots. Sew uniforms in yet another new color pattern. Enjoy the soft glow of EB's god-like sailing ability. Fly back home to their native countries for a few days. Or just bad-mouth BOR for Marian's next column.

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

I think you will find that BOTH teams are equally bad at having home sailors on the team. According to the BOR website, there are only 2 Americans in a team of 26, with 10 Kiwis. At least the Swiss manage to get 3 nationals into their team of 20, but even they have 8 Kiwis!

 

Second highest is Italy with 6 and 2 on the teams, respecitvely. Surprised not to see many French in there considering their success with multihulls over the years, although Alinghi do have Alain Gaultier, Loick Peyron and Franck Profitt advising them.

 

 

The FRENCH refuse to work for BOR (or an American team)

since the "French Fries in Congress" affair ..........

 

 

:P:P:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They could hold another "Aren't we awesome?" press conference. Pose for more face shots. Sew uniforms in yet another new color pattern. Enjoy the soft glow of EB's god-like sailing ability. Fly back home to their native countries for a few days. Or just bad-mouth BOR for Marian's next column.

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

I think you will find that BOTH teams are equally bad at having home sailors on the team. According to the BOR website, there are only 2 Americans in a team of 26, with 10 Kiwis. At least the Swiss manage to get 3 nationals into their team of 20, but even they have 8 Kiwis!

 

Second highest is Italy with 6 and 2 on the teams, respecitvely. Surprised not to see many French in there considering their success with multihulls over the years, although Alinghi do have Alain Gaultier, Loick Peyron and Franck Profitt advising them.

 

image what ETNZ would be doing if we still had all those sailors! we wouldn't even be stuck in this quagmire!! BB RC Monk, Daubney etc etc, well maybe not daubney... ernesto can have him! same goes for BB, he's really not liked anymore!

 

bring back nationality rules.. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

 

bring back nationality rules. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

 

What natinality is: 'Internal Combustion '?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never claimed that BOR was an all-American crew, merely poking fun where there's an opportunity.

They could hold another "Aren't we awesome?" press conference. Pose for more face shots. Sew uniforms in yet another new color pattern. Enjoy the soft glow of EB's god-like sailing ability. Fly back home to their native countries for a few days. Or just bad-mouth BOR for Marian's next column.

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

I think you will find that BOTH teams are equally bad at having home sailors on the team. According to the BOR website, there are only 2 Americans in a team of 26, with 10 Kiwis. At least the Swiss manage to get 3 nationals into their team of 20, but even they have 8 Kiwis!

 

Second highest is Italy with 6 and 2 on the teams, respecitvely. Surprised not to see many French in there considering their success with multihulls over the years, although Alinghi do have Alain Gaultier, Loick Peyron and Franck Profitt advising them.

 

image what ETNZ would be doing if we still had all those sailors! we wouldn't even be stuck in this quagmire!! BB RC Monk, Daubney etc etc, well maybe not daubney... ernesto can have him! same goes for BB, he's really not liked anymore!

 

bring back nationality rules.. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

 

The passport thing is no sure-fire answer, as anyone who's watched the Olympics closely can attest there are plenty of countries out there willing to issue passports/citizenship on thin pretense for the sake of their local teams. A passport rule would put countries with strict Passport and Citizenship laws, such as the US, at a large disadvantage to countries which could still purchase their team abroad. I'd like to see Nationalistic teams again, but if you're going to create rules to compel their existence we'll need rules which take more into account than just an easily-purchased label.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Never claimed that BOR was an all-American crew, merely poking fun where there's an opportunity.
They could hold another "Aren't we awesome?" press conference. Pose for more face shots. Sew uniforms in yet another new color pattern. Enjoy the soft glow of EB's god-like sailing ability. Fly back home to their native countries for a few days. Or just bad-mouth BOR for Marian's next column.

 

 

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

I think you will find that BOTH teams are equally bad at having home sailors on the team. According to the BOR website, there are only 2 Americans in a team of 26, with 10 Kiwis. At least the Swiss manage to get 3 nationals into their team of 20, but even they have 8 Kiwis!

 

Second highest is Italy with 6 and 2 on the teams, respecitvely. Surprised not to see many French in there considering their success with multihulls over the years, although Alinghi do have Alain Gaultier, Loick Peyron and Franck Profitt advising them.

 

image what ETNZ would be doing if we still had all those sailors! we wouldn't even be stuck in this quagmire!! BB RC Monk, Daubney etc etc, well maybe not daubney... ernesto can have him! same goes for BB, he's really not liked anymore!

 

bring back nationality rules.. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

 

The passport thing is no sure-fire answer, as anyone who's watched the Olympics closely can attest there are plenty of countries out there willing to issue passports/citizenship on thin pretense for the sake of their local teams. A passport rule would put countries with strict Passport and Citizenship laws, such as the US, at a large disadvantage to countries which could still purchase their team abroad. I'd like to see Nationalistic teams again, but if you're going to create rules to compel their existence we'll need rules which take more into account than just an easily-purchased label.

 

spot the kiwi :P

post-31389-1252523758_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

 

bring back nationality rules. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

 

What natinality is: 'Internal Combustion '?

 

 

In this case Canadian since it is a snowmobile engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

 

bring back nationality rules. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

 

What natinality is: 'Internal Combustion '?

 

 

In this case Canadian since it is a snowmobile engine.

 

if memory serves me, bombardier products (snowmobiles and jet-skis) used rotax engines, so austrian ;) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

 

bring back nationality rules. must have a US or Swiss passport to sail for a US or swiss team respectively, that would level out those cheese eaters! :o

 

What natinality is: 'Internal Combustion '?

 

 

In this case Canadian since it is a snowmobile engine.

 

if memory serves me, bombardier products (snowmobiles and jet-skis) used rotax engines, so austrian ;) .

 

Rotax is Austrian for sure. Think Bombardier were the biggest buyer of Rotax engines so they bought Rotax a long time ago. I can personally attest that those fine pieces of Austrian engineering work just sweet.... at 100+ mph over frozen water. Funny that next winter when I squeeze the throttle it 'll make me think of sheeting in some monster sails and adjusting running rigging rather than simply launching me across snow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Funny that next winter when I squeeze the throttle it 'll make me think of sheeting in some monster sails and adjusting running rigging rather than simply launching me across snow."

 

I do hope that when your girlfriend squeezes your "throttle" you'll be thinking about... your girlfriend....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looking again at the first vids on the lake, I saw these cover/protections on the back of the Y, which I did not remember. That's mean it's a point where something can happen... like the boom hitting the thin and light Y-structure?

 

What do you think guys? Any idea? By the way, it's the same cover that the one which have been pretended earlier in this thread to be "heating cover" for "the 5 days curing cycles" :lol:

post-38390-1252571897_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
looking again at the first vids on the lake, I saw these cover/protections on the back of the Y, which I did not remember. That's mean it's a point where something can happen... like the boom hitting the thin and light Y-structure?

 

What do you think guys? Any idea? By the way, it's the same cover that the one which have been pretended earlier in this thread to be "heating cover" for "the 5 days curing cycles" :lol:

There are photos while sailing and during helitreullage, showing these sleeves sometimes on, sometimes off. It has been very perplexing.

 

But there is no doubt a simple explanation.

 

It's to keep you from banging your head when you run across the trampoline! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
looking again at the first vids on the lake, I saw these cover/protections on the back of the Y, which I did not remember. That's mean it's a point where something can happen... like the boom hitting the thin and light Y-structure?

 

What do you think guys? Any idea? By the way, it's the same cover that the one which have been pretended earlier in this thread to be "heating cover" for "the 5 days curing cycles" :lol:

There are photos while sailing and during helitreullage, showing these sleeves sometimes on, sometimes off. It has been very perplexing.

 

But there is no doubt a simple explanation.

 

It's to keep you from banging your head when you run across the trampoline! :)

 

protect them from the boom when the main gets dropped or if it drops?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
looking again at the first vids on the lake, I saw these cover/protections on the back of the Y, which I did not remember. That's mean it's a point where something can happen... like the boom hitting the thin and light Y-structure?

What do you think guys? Any idea? By the way, it's the same cover that the one which have been pretended earlier in this thread to be "heating cover" for "the 5 days curing cycles" :lol:

There are photos while sailing and during helitreullage, showing these sleeves sometimes on, sometimes off. It has been very perplexing.

But there is no doubt a simple explanation.

It's to keep you from banging your head when you run across the trampoline! :)

protect them from the boom when the main gets dropped or if it drops?

It's the same protective stuff you see on the front of the mast near deck level. They either have some kind of gear rubbing against these tapered sections of the Y-beams, or they want to prevent damage in case of something coming loose near them.

... And maybe the Swiss have anticipated Stingray's scenario of a 'chain reaction' where some tiny failure leads to the whole boat flying into smithereens! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah, Blackie, it is Kevlar bulletproof vest material, specially located so that when the crossbow ox horn and horse sinew blows, Ernesto a la barre will be protected from the flying lethal carbon shards (and shavings), tough shit for the crew though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nah, Blackie, it is Kevlar bulletproof vest material, specially located so that when the crossbow ox horn and horse sinew blows, Ernesto a la barre will be protected from the flying lethal carbon shards (and shavings), tough shit for the crew though.

Oh please. The Crew will be safely watching from the spectator boats, while little solar powered motors placed here and there on the boat, ten minutes before the start, assume all the risk!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sheet chafing protectors.

 

There are pics of sheets lying across at least the Y beams about there. (which is why I think they could have broken a Y beam: Get a sheet wrapped, push button & bang)

 

Edit: Oh, I see that's been discussed in the Activity in Genoa thread already :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites