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Dutch court orders state care for 13-year-old girl to delay her solo w

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I would think that being Dutch would more than qualify her for soloing the globe. If she springs any leaks she can just use her fingers to stem the flow.........

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I would think that being Dutch would more than qualify her for soloing the globe. If she springs any leaks she can just use her fingers to stem the flow.........

 

But if she isn't gay, she probably wouldn't want to stick her fingers in any dikes...

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I would think that being Dutch would more than qualify her for soloing the globe. If she springs any leaks she can just use her fingers to stem the flow.........

 

But if she isn't gay, she probably wouldn't want to stick her fingers in any dikes...

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In the aviation world these "youngest ever" records became illegal after they worked their way down to a 6 year old who died in a crash.

 

I would think that being Dutch would more than qualify her for soloing the globe. If she springs any leaks she can just use her fingers to stem the flow.........

 

But if she isn't gay, she probably wouldn't want to stick her fingers in any dikes...

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Guest multitranslation

fuck "the state"!

 

anyone should be able to do with his life as he pleases as long as he's not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

end of story!

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I am all for her sailing around the globe if she is up to it... i don't think her age has anything to do with that, her mental and physical strengt are very important. The judge desided that that state should asses whether se is upto the journey and upto teaching herself the shit normal kids learn in school... She can still live with her parents btw...

 

 

 

this is her ship by the way, its called guppy.. its 8 meter long weighs 3,2 ton of which 1,25 ton is ballast. It isnt big but she isnt either so i suppose this would be the max she could handle in a storm..

broes-A_edited.jpg

 

the seventeen year old kid that just finished his circomnavigation had a 50ft ship, that looked and probably sailed like an open 50..

 

this step by the court delayed laura's departure at least until november, good luck getting thru the fall storms in the bay of biscay on that ship...

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fuck "the state"!

 

anyone should be able to do with his life as he pleases as long as he's not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

end of story!

 

 

pretty much all countries recognize the state's interest in protecting minors - both from themselves, and from adults, including their parents.

 

the idea is that below a certain age, children are not capable of making some kinds of decisions.

 

it seems you don't agree.

 

so.., i guess you must feel that "age of consent" laws are interfering with a child's "right" to have sex....

 

how about it..., should a 13yr old girl - say this one - have the right to consent to sex with an adult?

 

it seems that if you think she should be free to choose too do something which has a reasonable chance of killing her, that you should also think she should be able to have a 40yr old boyfriend, if she wants one.

 

in fact i'm pretty sure you don't think that's ok, and i'm pretty sure you think that the state has a duty to protect her from the consequences of such a decision - probably even if it means removing her from her home.

 

are you also opposed to laws that require kids to wear seat belts?

 

what about laws that require kids to go to school?

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fuck "the state"!

 

anyone should be able to do with his life as he pleases as long as he's not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

end of story!

 

 

the problem is that she might very well endanger other people... what if a coastguard SAR team has to go out and get her in a storm at night? Sure that could also happen with an adult on board but i think we should never forget sailing around the globe can endanger more than just your own life...

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Fuck "The State"!

 

Anyone should be able to do with their life as they pleases as long as they're not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

End of story!

Agreed.

 

While I doubt the wisdom of the task, I do not question the right to take it on.

 

the problem is that she might very well endanger other people... what if a coastguard SAR team has to go out and get her in a storm at night? Sure that could also happen with an adult on board but i think we should never forget sailing around the globe can endanger more than just your own life...

Spend a little time looking around here and you'll note that a number of people do not meet your standards.

 

Age != Wisdom ; and I'm getting old.

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Born at sea and lived there a good part of her life and making LONG solo sails from 11 years old NOT just another teen

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Fuck "The State"!

 

Anyone should be able to do with their life as they pleases as long as they're not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

End of story!

Agreed.

 

While I doubt the wisdom of the task, I do not question the right to take it on.

 

 

 

 

that's ridiculous - does she also have the "right" to have a 40yr old boy friend?

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Fuck "The State"!

 

Anyone should be able to do with their life as they pleases as long as they're not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

End of story!

Agreed.

 

While I doubt the wisdom of the task, I do not question the right to take it on.

 

the problem is that she might very well endanger other people... what if a coastguard SAR team has to go out and get her in a storm at night? Sure that could also happen with an adult on board but i think we should never forget sailing around the globe can endanger more than just your own life...

Spend a little time looking around here and you'll note that a number of people do not meet your standards.

 

Age != Wisdom ; and I'm getting old.

 

 

I argee as you can read in my first post i am more concerned about her mental and physical strength than about her age... i have know 13 year olds stronger/smarter/faster then the average adult, the argument that her decision to sail around the world doesn't interfer with other people's lifes..

 

Sure their are enough adult idiots that endanger others with their idiotic behavior mat sea, that doesn't mean we should let a 13 year old have a go at it... This girl might very well be a very experienced sailor and quite capable at circomnavigating the globe, we can be sure however (i have seen her on tv..) she lacks in physical strengt which could be very very important in some situations...

 

As a kid i had no fear of dying whatsoever even when sailing in 10bft winds in the english channel (with my parents...) when the mast hit the water al i thought was: wow this is cool i can stand on the bathroom door! Luckily for me my dad who has sailed al his life knew that standing on the bathroom door might be cool, but staying afloat would be much cooler in the long run... Having no fear of dying as a kid is fun but not a trait that is very usefull when making decisions on a solo circomnavigation...

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After surviving ferocious storms, 60 ft waves and emergency underwater repairs, the teenager from Potters Bar is on course to become the youngest person to circumnavigate the globe solo.

 

60ft waves and underwater repairs... and that guy was 17 and sailing an open50.. she is sailing something that is in no way designed for 60ft waves and has far less muscle power..

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Fuck "The State"!

 

Anyone should be able to do with their life as they pleases as long as they're not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

End of story!

Agreed.

 

While I doubt the wisdom of the task, I do not question the right to take it on.

 

 

 

 

that's ridiculous - does she also have the "right" to have a 40yr old boy friend?

 

In Pennsylvania, she could get married at 13. 14 in other states and Canada. The laws are there to prevent 40 year olds from preying on underaged kids - not to stop parents from letting their children pursue a dream as the one that is shared by the family. Your analogy is flawed.

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just heard the entire verdict.. she is not permanently banned from sailing, the court wants it confirmed that she has taken enough safety precautions, her boat is prepped the right way and she knows what she is doing, if so she can stil sail around the globe..

 

proving she is a sensable kid she today decided that if she leaves in oktober or november she will depart in portugal which is sensable since the bay of biscay is not the place to be that time of year...

 

seems the state just wants some sensable questions awnserd...

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Fuck "The State"!

 

Anyone should be able to do with their life as they pleases as long as they're not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

End of story!

Agreed.

 

While I doubt the wisdom of the task, I do not question the right to take it on.

 

 

 

 

that's ridiculous - does she also have the "right" to have a 40yr old boy friend?

 

In Pennsylvania, she could get married at 13. 14 in other states and Canada. The laws are there to prevent 40 year olds from preying on underaged kids - not to stop parents from letting their children pursue a dream as the one that is shared by the family. Your analogy is flawed.

 

Of course in Pennsylvania in many communities she would not be allowed out in a public place without parental supervision between 11pm and 6am, so would have to be careful where she docked at night or risk running foul of a curfew law.

 

Most countries work to protect children and ensure that they don't get to make potential incorrect decisions until they are mature enough to do so.

Here the dutch courts seem to have made a reasonable sensible decision.... they haven't said no, they have just said that then need to make sure about this. At the very least they need to be sure that this is truly her decision and not that of a pressuring parent.

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What gets me iritated here isn't the arguments for or against the kid going or not, rather the parents lack of judgement. The parents are the ones being selfish. Whatever happened to common sense in parenting?

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In Pennsylvania, she could get married at 13. 14 in other states and Canada. The laws are there to prevent 40 year olds from preying on underaged kids - not to stop parents from letting their children pursue a dream as the one that is shared by the family. Your analogy is flawed.

 

Geeze... great way to take the Canadian law out of context. It's 18 ordinarily; 16 with parental consent, and under IF the child is pregnant or the mother of a living child i.e. she may have been raped to get in that condition as opposed to it's OK as you imply.

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Good lord. What would happen to the poor child if she encountered the 1000 Days at Sea guy who impregnated the last tart dumb enough to "take a look at the Capt'ns quarter" offer!

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What gets me iritated here isn't the arguments for or against the kid going or not, rather the parents lack of judgement. The parents are the ones being selfish. Whatever happened to common sense in parenting?

 

You say that in a vacuum as you know neither the parents nor the capabilities of the child. Just suppose you raised a child while doing a circumnavigation and have seen her absorb that experience; just suppose you have sailed with the child throughout her life and have seen her helm, handle sails, dock, operate the engine, navigate the boat; just suppose you know she has sailed solo for years in that region; just suppose you have confidence in her skills that may be easily equivalent to some other adults' skills; and perhaps when you add all that up, you might assess her to be capable in THAT boat of hopping from point to point around the world.

 

In that light, the parents may have no concern over her safety, and probably don't negate the risks since they have circumnavigated too.

 

So what does it come down to? The mental maturity and intelligence of the girl? I'm not sure you can make a remote and absolute decision over the internet in the absence of knowing the child and parents. There are certainly some valid concerns from many people, but your irritation about the parents, their assessment, or their motives (if in fact they have any selfish ones) may be totally off the wall.

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(What gets me iritated here isn't the arguments for or against the kid going or not, rather the parents lack of judgement. The parents are the ones being selfish. Whatever happened to common sense in parenting?)

Common Sense! A rare commodity in a lot of circles these days!

If the sea hippies that think all will be fine for a 13 yr old girl to sail round the world solo and that she is so capable of making it maybe one of them will lend her a better yacht to do it in. Better still, if she leaves from Portugal, maybe someone has a nice sports car she can drive down from the Netherlands. A detour in to Germany and blast down the Autobahn at 200kph would be a great start to a round the world attempt.

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In Pennsylvania, she could get married at 13. 14 in other states and Canada. The laws are there to prevent 40 year olds from preying on underaged kids - not to stop parents from letting their children pursue a dream as the one that is shared by the family. Your analogy is flawed.

 

Geeze... great way to take the Canadian law out of context. It's 18 ordinarily; 16 with parental consent, and under IF the child is pregnant or the mother of a living child i.e. she may have been raped to get in that condition as opposed to it's OK as you imply.

 

Christ, aren't we touchy today...

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Born at sea and lived there a good part of her life and making LONG solo sails from 11 years old NOT just another teen

 

Perhaps she's up to it. But even if she were born in an igloo and

had been raised on walrus blubber, should some parents set a 13 year old

on a pair of skis to be the youngest person to go to the North

Pole, I would have no trouble with stepping in for a look-see.

There is the concept of "manifestly unsafe voyage", and the

knowlege that sometimes kids could use a bit of protection

from brain-dead parents.

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What gets me iritated here isn't the arguments for or against the kid going or not, rather the parents lack of judgement. The parents are the ones being selfish. Whatever happened to common sense in parenting?

 

You say that in a vacuum as you know neither the parents nor the capabilities of the child. Just suppose you raised a child while doing a circumnavigation and have seen her absorb that experience; just suppose you have sailed with the child throughout her life and have seen her helm, handle sails, dock, operate the engine, navigate the boat; just suppose you know she has sailed solo for years in that region; just suppose you have confidence in her skills that may be easily equivalent to some other adults' skills; and perhaps when you add all that up, you might assess her to be capable in THAT boat of hopping from point to point around the world.

 

In that light, the parents may have no concern over her safety, and probably don't negate the risks since they have circumnavigated too.

 

So what does it come down to? The mental maturity and intelligence of the girl? I'm not sure you can make a remote and absolute decision over the internet in the absence of knowing the child and parents. There are certainly some valid concerns from many people, but your irritation about the parents, their assessment, or their motives (if in fact they have any selfish ones) may be totally off the wall.

 

In a vacuum? Ok, sure. I'll give you that. I think few understand all the details. Nobody ever will. Even the ghostwriter for the soon to be released book.

 

Can I make broad brush statements about parenting? You bet. (yes, if you want to know I am a parent.)

 

This is a blatant grab at being a celebrity with the 13 year old as the pawn.

 

Vacuum away if you like... I still don't like it, and while I don't begrudge the kid from wanting to go, its the parents who should be held accountable here.

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There certainly seems to be a lot of focus on the 40-year-old boyfriend concept. I find it rather disturbing.

 

Is she trying to do this nonstop, or just solo?

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In Pennsylvania, she could get married at 13. 14 in other states and Canada. The laws are there to prevent 40 year olds from preying on underaged kids - not to stop parents from letting their children pursue a dream as the one that is shared by the family. Your analogy is flawed.

 

Geeze... great way to take the Canadian law out of context. It's 18 ordinarily; 16 with parental consent, and under IF the child is pregnant or the mother of a living child i.e. she may have been raped to get in that condition as opposed to it's OK as you imply.

 

Christ, aren't we touchy today...

 

Yep you're right.

I'm just worn down by ongoing BS on SA and extravagant claims or comments based on lack of facts, or distorted facts, or just plain bloody-mindedness e.g. AC and MSP, McGyver, Clean, Ed and unjustified criticisms about everything ISAF does and achieves. Add to that, the overall cynicism developed by seeing Dinius charged by an incompetent sheriff's office, and prosecuted by a lying DA, who spun yarns with no facts, distorted half-truths, to the point of ruining someone's life and almost banrupting him. Add to that the media reporting on this 13 year old's ambitions and the intentional sensationalism and false representation of facts e.g. they interview two offshore sailors for their opinions while showing pictures of 50ft and 60ft boats, asking questions about her physical ability to handle the boat. No mention that her boat is tiny in comparison and relatively easy to handle... so the public will naturally conclude there's no way she could sail one of those - i.e. more distortion and BS. Add to that the ongoing commentary that people couldn't give a shit about the RRS because it's a beer can race, and those that are put off protesting because either they can't read and understand the rules, or couldn't be bothered, or are uninclined because some Ahole on the other boat will lie and try and wriggle out with some BS claim the ROW boat didn't give them time, or the ROW didn't make an effort under rule 14 to avoid a collision..... and on....and on.........

 

yep... thin skinned alright about the rush to judgement and a relfex to be economical with facts cropping up everywhere we turn.

 

Anyhoo... back to regular programming..... :(

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There certainly seems to be a lot of focus on the 40-year-old boyfriend concept. I find it rather disturbing.

 

Is she trying to do this nonstop, or just solo?

 

Just solo, regular stops at ports to take in supplies and get rest. She's going through the Panama and Suez canals, so she's not straying very far from the equator I think. Oh, and she is of course going around the "right way".

 

Still, I'm not sure she should go. Even if she can survive being out at sea, she's going to be meeting some pretty unsavory types along the way.

I know that Dutch, English or Belgian port authorities are pretty decent, but how about the Yemenis, or Somalians?

Some of the places she'll pass through are pretty lawless, so piracy and other forms of crime are definitely something to keep in mind...

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What is the rush? If she is able to do it at 13, then why not wait until she is at least 16?

 

At least by that time, the cheese scow ought to be no longer a threat to navigation. :lol:

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In Pennsylvania, she could get married at 13. 14 in other states and Canada. The laws are there to prevent 40 year olds from preying on underaged kids - not to stop parents from letting their children pursue a dream as the one that is shared by the family. Your analogy is flawed.

 

Geeze... great way to take the Canadian law out of context. It's 18 ordinarily; 16 with parental consent, and under IF the child is pregnant or the mother of a living child i.e. she may have been raped to get in that condition as opposed to it's OK as you imply.

 

Christ, aren't we touchy today...

 

Yep you're right.

I'm just worn down by ongoing BS on SA and extravagant claims or comments based on lack of facts, or distorted facts, or just plain bloody-mindedness e.g. AC and MSP, McGyver, Clean, Ed and unjustified criticisms about everything ISAF does and achieves. Add to that, the overall cynicism developed by seeing Dinius charged by an incompetent sheriff's office, and prosecuted by a lying DA, who spun yarns with no facts, distorted half-truths, to the point of ruining someone's life and almost banrupting him. Add to that the media reporting on this 13 year old's ambitions and the intentional sensationalism and false representation of facts e.g. they interview two offshore sailors for their opinions while showing pictures of 50ft and 60ft boats, asking questions about her physical ability to handle the boat. No mention that her boat is tiny in comparison and relatively easy to handle... so the public will naturally conclude there's no way she could sail one of those - i.e. more distortion and BS. Add to that the ongoing commentary that people couldn't give a shit about the RRS because it's a beer can race, and those that are put off protesting because either they can't read and understand the rules, or couldn't be bothered, or are uninclined because some Ahole on the other boat will lie and try and wriggle out with some BS claim the ROW boat didn't give them time, or the ROW didn't make an effort under rule 14 to avoid a collision..... and on....and on.........

 

yep... thin skinned alright about the rush to judgement and a relfex to be economical with facts cropping up everywhere we turn.

 

Anyhoo... back to regular programming..... :(

 

Take a break from SA and go sailing this weekend. Leave all this crap behind and put a smile on your face.

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How any parent would ever consider permitting a 13-year-old girl (that's 6th or 7th grade!!!) to sail alone around the world is beyond me. The logistics of having someone in every port she pulled into be there to "babysit" her so she doesn't get raped by some perv is too hard to pull off! Hell, the marina owner could be a perv himself! Not to mention that if she has any communication problems and had to pull into some port w/o informing anyone ahead of time she would be putting herself in such jeopardy!And the amount of attention that she and her boat have received means there are plenty of sick-o's out there just waiting to come across her. No 13 y.o. old child is mature enough to do something like this, I don't care what her parents think! I guarantee this child has never faced any type of crisis in her life to mature her beyond her years, and tht her parents would approve of something like this makes me think they're crazy or they have one very spoiled child on their hands.

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A thirteen year old child is in the middle of a very important developmental period of life. I would hope if her parents are preparing her for such an endeavour, preparation would include ways and means of managing this personal development as well as seeing to her physical and emotional welfare in port as well as at sea. Can it be done? I don't think so, but then what do I know?

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A thirteen year old child is in the middle of a very important developmental period of life. I would hope if her parents are preparing her for such an endeavour, preparation would include ways and means of managing this personal development as well as seeing to her physical and emotional welfare in port as well as at sea. Can it be done? I don't think so, but then what do I know?

 

 

She needs to talk to Eliza.........

 

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=94532

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A thirteen year old child is in the middle of a very important developmental period of life. I would hope if her parents are preparing her for such an endeavour, preparation would include ways and means of managing this personal development as well as seeing to her physical and emotional welfare in port as well as at sea. Can it be done? I don't think so, but then what do I know?

 

 

She needs to talk to Eliza.........

 

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=94532

 

Never answered. Red flag goes up on that ID.

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... as long as she brings the right winch handles and remembers the frying pan...

 

 

Time to rent Blue Lagoon again?..........

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Dad's a genius! Instead of having to deal with a teenage daughter on a day-to-day basis he sends her off into the world, keeps his access to the telephone and bathroom and saves his doorhinges some wear and tear.

The judge probably is tempted to do the same and is exploring the possibilties toget away with it...

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fuck "the state"!

 

anyone should be able to do with his life as he pleases as long as he's not interfering with anyone else's right to do the same!

 

end of story!

 

Ever heard of personal responsibilty Dave? Or taking the consequences of your own actions?

I don't care if she dies but I expect her parents will anticipate assistance if she gets into trouble. I have read a few articles about this story and the girl's mother is conspicuous in her silence. When the child arrived here in the UK after crossing the channel, the Police took her into care as her father wouldn't come and collect her.

I suspect that her father is driving this. If it is truly a passionate dream, make her wait, the dream will still be there in 5 years time and maybe the funds too.

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sanity prevails

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Got to go along with Mark K and others who believe the parents are brain-dead.

 

The state is there (hopefully) to step in where or when individuals cannot fend for selves. All the whine and state-hate does not mitigate the need for this to happen. (It should have happened in the years that kidnapped California girl was kept in backyard tents by another religious freakin ass----...)

 

There are lines and limits...and that is reason we have so many laws. Rampant population looses many screwballs (religious-political and just plain nuts) on the rest of us sane folks.

 

I can imagine this kid with first electrical failure, in force 4 breeze, in the dark and the rain at inch per hour having to pee and hungry, at a manual tiller and forgot to reef the rig.

 

Give us a break!

 

CTTOI, wonder how big the Lloyd's policy the (maybe not so brain-dead) parents took out?

 

Good on the state here!

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