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Jim Donovan

20+ Footer - Building in Hawaii

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Here are a few photos of my new 20+ footer (it's a few inches longer than 20 feet). Essentially a scaled version of my GP26 design, and without the GP class restructions I'm using carbon for the inner skins on the hull and deck. Built all the flat panel stuff first; frames, topsides panels, deck panels. Then built the cockpit and deck and hauled it up into the shop rafters. Been setting up the hull plug last week and nearly ready to fit the foam core for the outer hull laminate.

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The "hot" small keel boat class in Hawaii is the Cal 20, and I just can't sail one of those ever again

The concept of this 20 foot “cruiser/racer” is that it's a boat that 2 people can easily sail with the smaller spinnaker.

 

The rig is a broken Melges 24 spar that I need to fix. It'll be keel stepped, so I'll loose a couple feet of hoist.

I have a M24 spinnaker for the BIG kite - it'll also loose a couple feet of hoist and girth.

The rig set-up is a lot like the Melges 20 - fat-head main and no backstay, although I'm going with an adjustable forestay.

Want a fixed bowsprit, but realize I need to remove it for docking, Haven't quite figured out the best solution yet.

 

All-up weight is targeted at 570kg (using a M24 reshaped bulb), or 230 kg lighter than the Melges 24.

 

 

There are actually a few concensions to "cruising", that make the boat much more useful to take out for an afternoon "cruise";

The tail-feathers at the stern act as a swim platform, with a foot pump and shower thing at the transom -(portable bladder water tank as part of the "cruising" set-up.)

There's a structural bow tank with a platform that is just big enough for a berth.

The parrot gets a small dodger to hang out under.

 

Preliminary sail and deck plan attached

6m_Sailplan.doc

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Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

 

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?

 

The GP26 fleet is growing steadily with a new build starting up in Europe, and hopefully there will be more interest in the US soon.

But the entire boat building industry has been slowed by the economic situation, so we'll have to wait a while until things start heating up again.

 

Jim would be very interested in building the GP26, but this will not happen until the are customers.

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Jim,

 

Thanks for the info. Is the 20ft boat designed as kit boat? Like the i-550? The i-550 i can order pre cut-out panels and have them shipped to me for final assemble? Racer/Cruiser have a much bigger audience, first time I have ever seen it done with a 20ft.

 

GP-26 - I feel alot of people like the boat, but aren't going to spend the money on the boat until more are built and racing. How are more going to get built? I know great pricing always works. It is really a tough sale with the boat being a one -off like a MORC or IMS boat currently. The more information you can publish to the boarder audience the better chances of getting some interest.

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Looks interesting Jim.

What is the measurement data?

Do keep us posted on the progress.

 

Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

 

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?

 

The GP26 fleet is growing steadily with a new build starting up in Europe, and hopefully there will be more interest in the US soon.

But the entire boat building industry has been slowed by the economic situation, so we'll have to wait a while until things start heating up again.

 

Jim would be very interested in building the GP26, but this will not happen until the are customers.

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Jim,

 

Thanks for the info. Is the 20ft boat designed as kit boat? Like the i-550? The i-550 i can order pre cut-out panels and have them shipped to me for final assemble? Racer/Cruiser have a much bigger audience, first time I have ever seen it done with a 20ft.

 

GP-26 - I feel alot of people like the boat, but aren't going to spend the money on the boat until more are built and racing. How are more going to get built? I know great pricing always works. It is really a tough sale with the boat being a one -off like a MORC or IMS boat currently. The more information you can publish to the boarder audience the better chances of getting some interest.

 

 

I'll have quite a nice hull plug that I'd be able to build a few hull bottom parts from, so a "kit" could be supplied with this part and as many of the other pre-made panels as someone required. The original concept of this design was to be a kit boat similar to the i550, but these panel built boats have compromised hull forms that have no appeal to me, and I couldn't rationalize spending the time and money for this.

 

I use the term "cruiser" very loosely; the boat is very powered up.

The rig is a couple feet taller than the Melges 20, with a larger big spinnaker (I will have a small spinnaker too).

The keel is about a foot deeper with a heavier bulb than the M20, but the all up displacement is only 50 kgs more, which the slightly longer hull easily accommodates.

I’ve drawn a single rudder, but have been thinking it would be better with twin rudders

 

I’ve concentrated more on actually building the boat than producing pretty drawings and renderings.

I have a lot more detailed working drawings that I will work to clean up and post.

But today I’m working towards getting some foam on the hull plug.

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Looks interesting Jim.

What is the measurement data?

Do keep us posted on the progress.

 

Looks good Jim. Please keep us posted.

 

Did you make any progress with finding a builder for the USA GP26? Last you posted you were talking with Betts?

 

The GP26 fleet is growing steadily with a new build starting up in Europe, and hopefully there will be more interest in the US soon.

But the entire boat building industry has been slowed by the economic situation, so we'll have to wait a while until things start heating up again.

 

Jim would be very interested in building the GP26, but this will not happen until the are customers.

 

The sprit is about 3 1/2 feet long.

My latest concept has the aft end of the sprit fitting into a socket at the stem, with a small purchase in the sprit that will allow the bobstay to be tensioned after fitting the sprit.

To remove the sprit just uncleat this purchase to slacken the stay, then just pull the spit out and lay it on the foredeck.

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Jim,

 

Thanks for the info. Is the 20ft boat designed as kit boat? Like the i-550? The i-550 i can order pre cut-out panels and have them shipped to me for final assemble? Racer/Cruiser have a much bigger audience, first time I have ever seen it done with a 20ft.

 

GP-26 - I feel alot of people like the boat, but aren't going to spend the money on the boat until more are built and racing. How are more going to get built? I know great pricing always works. It is really a tough sale with the boat being a one -off like a MORC or IMS boat currently. The more information you can publish to the boarder audience the better chances of getting some interest.

 

 

I'll have quite a nice hull plug that I'd be able to build a few hull bottom parts from, so a "kit" could be supplied with this part and as many of the other pre-made panels as someone required. The original concept of this design was to be a kit boat similar to the i550, but these panel built boats have compromised hull forms that have no appeal to me, and I couldn't rationalize spending the time and money for this.

 

I use the term "cruiser" very loosely; the boat is very powered up.

The rig is a couple feet taller than the Melges 20, with a larger big spinnaker (I will have a small spinnaker too).

The keel is about a foot deeper with a heavier bulb than the M20, but the all up displacement is only 50 kgs more, which the slightly longer hull easily accommodates.

I’ve drawn a single rudder, but have been thinking it would be better with twin rudders

 

I’ve concentrated more on actually building the boat than producing pretty drawings and renderings.

I have a lot more detailed working drawings that I will work to clean up and post.

But today I’m working towards getting some foam on the hull plug.

 

Good work on actually building the boat instead of pretty renderings!

 

I'd recommend making the prod as long as possible for much easier gybeing and sailing deep downwind.

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Sweet design.

I agree with you position concerning the i550 - great concept, just not attractive enough with the flat sides and such to make me want to take the leap.

Now this design would certainly fit the bill.

Please keep the posts coming concerning the boat and the build.

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Is it just me or have you decided against freeboard?

I think that is just the hulll to the chine like the 26, and then there are topsides to go on.

 

 

Exactly Advocate.

 

Here's a photo of a topside panel.

 

Where Kevin is building his GP26 in a female plug with topsides and botom laminated in a single hit, due to space limitations I've elected to go for a smaller hull bottom plug and attach the topside panels later.

 

Before I built the real boat I built a quick 1/5th scale model to confirm that my surface program was accurately developing the topside panel shape (see attachment).

The shape was perfect so I felt confident to go full size.

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Hull bottom foam all on - 6 pieces total

 

Topside panels going on today - will glass outer hull bottom laminate directly to topside panel edge which is recessd a couple millimeteres to accept extra layers.

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Hull bottom foam all on - 6 pieces total

 

Topside panels going on today - will glass outer hull bottom laminate directly to topside panel edge which is recessd a couple millimeteres to accept extra layers.

 

 

Most of the topside panel surface has already been faired and primed (white paint on panel).

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Want a fixed bowsprit, but realize I need to remove it for docking, Haven't quite figured out the best solution yet.

Why not a deck tunnel thingy like the Ultimate 20, where you pull the sprit out from the deck? Keeps the interior dry that way. And you could go longer than 3.5 feet! Bigger kite=more fun.

 

Looks sweet.

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Want a fixed bowsprit, but realize I need to remove it for docking, Haven't quite figured out the best solution yet.

Why not a deck tunnel thingy like the Ultimate 20, where you pull the sprit out from the deck? Keeps the interior dry that way. And you could go longer than 3.5 feet! Bigger kite=more fun.

 

Looks sweet.

 

 

My cocnept for the boat is to keep the deck absolutely clean - a kind of mini Wally (but no teak!).

 

If you have a look at the sailplan you will see the rig is quite far aft in the hull - this is achieved by careful control of the structural weights, allowimg the keel and rig to slide aft. So the distance from the mast to the sprit tip is quite long - about the same as the Melges 20. The rig is taller than the M20, but I prefer high aspect spinnakers for the higher wind speeds here in Hawaii - you don't have to bleed off as much sheet to depower.

 

Of course it's always possible to make the sprit longer. The length will be decided when I build it - probably will make it longer than planned with the idea that I can cut it off later ;)

 

Topsides panels glued in place today (that was easy) all rebates for laminate laps and keel reinforcement layers routered into core - outer keel reinforcement layers lamianted last thing tonight.

 

1/2 the outer skin goes on tomorrow.

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Finished Laminating 2nd half of hull bottom yesterday, so hull exterior laminate complete.

Aready have microballoons on hull bottom and will finish first pass with a longboard this morning - all looks really good and should have less than 1mm average filler thickness.

Topsdie panels are already fairned and primed - did this on my long table before I disassembled it to stand up the hull bottom plug.

 

 

Next step is to build the hull cradle and roll the boat over.

I hadn't planned on attaching the topside panels before doing the bottom inner laminate, but it just seemed to make sense and the topside panels stablize the edge of the hull bottom.

Reaching over the topside panel to do the inner laminate my be a challenge - thinking of either tipping the hull and doing half at a time, or building a movable patform that'll let us get right over the hull for laminating.

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Jim forgot to add that is will be a self-tacking jib. He's been sailing with me on my Ross780 and is sold that it's the way to go on a light boat, especially when 2 person cruising in Kaneohe Bay. You guys are right that the build is going fast. A few of us have jumped in on the larger Layup days (nights) but Jim has been pretty much at it alone.

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Jim forgot to add that is will be a self-tacking jib. He's been sailing with me on my Ross780 and is sold that it's the way to go on a light boat, especially when 2 person cruising in Kaneohe Bay. You guys are right that the build is going fast. A few of us have jumped in on the larger Layup days (nights) but Jim has been pretty much at it alone.

 

 

I have a huge amount of gratitude for my dedicated volunteers; Brett, Mark and Scott who have shown up for every large laminate. It isn't possible to do these by yourself.

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Jim,

Are you not bagging the laminate on? Gravity is your friend!

 

Hi Trevor,

 

The hull plug is only station molds w/ ribbands, so not sealed to allow vacuum.

The outer skin is only a couple layers of uni glass so don't really need the vacuum for ply consolidation.

The outer skin is designed for thickness to avoid dents from docks and trailers, so the less than "optimal" resin content makes the outer skin a bit thicker and better able to deal with this type of abuse.

 

Sound like a reasonable justification for going with a cheaper mold?

 

When possible I have vacuumed the laminate; deck panels, topsides, internal bhds and frames.

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Cool stuff!

 

By the way the Synergy 1000's also have the pole channel in the fordeck like the U20. It's pretty clean and makes all the difference in interior space and water tight seals ie keeps the interior dry. Having owned the U20 and raced on the Synergy quite a bit - the only asymetric pole set up I'll go with is the deck mount or on a very large boat having a fully sealed pole box below deck.

 

Dealing with lousy pole / hull seals in the bow sucks! Though the rubber toilet plunger on the T650 works like a charm just doesn't look cool.

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Took a few photos of our crew (including Robert the parrot), and shoved the boat back in the shop.

Interior hull bottom carbon laminate is the next step.

 

looks GREAT!

 

That is going to be a super-cool boat Jim... but what's with the pram bow?? :huh:

 

FB- Doug

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Took a few photos of our crew (including Robert the parrot), and shoved the boat back in the shop.

Interior hull bottom carbon laminate is the next step.

 

looks GREAT!

 

That is going to be a super-cool boat Jim... but what's with the pram bow?? :huh:

 

FB- Doug

 

 

The bow will be built flat at 5" back from the stem.

A shaped block of foam will be attached and gassed to the bow.

This gives the boat quite a strong stem and it's just an easier way to build a one-off on a simple male plug.

In the photos the over-length topsides panels are just hanging out past the cut-off - I need to cut these back so it'll look better.

TodayI start w/ the inside laminate.

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Hi Jim, been a while since Valencia.

 

Boat looks cool man, when you planning to be sailing,? I'm keen to come for a yacht. I'm in Mexico steering old Cup boats around but a good friend just moved to Hawaii which gives me another reason to come visit on the way back down home. Got a couch I could crash on? How did those cool powerboats end up?

 

Julian

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Hi Jim, looks great! How did you keep the foam in place on the mold prior to laminating?

 

Tried a method a friend used to build his 18 ft skiff: stitching with thread to the ribbands. Estimated time of completion was June 2020.

 

Called another freind/expert builder that said a few dabs of liquid nails has worked for him. That held the foam for about 12 hrs and then I heard the "pop. pop, pop, pop" fo the glue letting loose.

 

Finally tried dabs of Gorilla glue - this is the ticket - fast and hodls like crazy. As I'm removing the ribbands now for the hull I'm finding it want's to rip out the foam - it holds that well. When removing the ribband if you ben it so it shears the glue bond you are less likely to rip out the foam. We're talking drop sized chunks which are quite easy to fill when you hot coat the foam prior to laminating.

 

Up in the bow the foam was quite bent and ready to pop off the mold, so I used some heaters tand a heat gun to thermo-form the core.

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Looks good Jim ! Are you going to finish off the model hull for Robert ?

 

The model will most likely hang from the ceiling in our living room, although Robert was invloved in preliminary "tank testing".

The real boat has a sligtly different hull shape - value of building the model is to see where you'd do it diffferently the next time.

So this boat is actually a Mk2.

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Hi Jim, been a while since Valencia.

 

Boat looks cool man, when you planning to be sailing,? I'm keen to come for a yacht. I'm in Mexico steering old Cup boats around but a good friend just moved to Hawaii which gives me another reason to come visit on the way back down home. Got a couch I could crash on? How did those cool powerboats end up?

 

Julian

Aloha Julian - b enn a while.

Mexico? What Cup boats found their way down there? Are they being used for charter work?

 

Thanks for the compliments on my boat - any and all encouragement is most welcome these days. Building this pretty much single handed - my right arm is about ready to fall off due to exceesive paower tool and longboarding. Getting past the initial exterior hull fairing and flipping the hull was a big relief, and doing the inner hull laminte has been a lot more "fun" - I much prefer laminating carbon - it is so beautiful and stiff. Here's a few photos - through the bow tank top/V-berth in for laughs:

 

 

If you pass through Hawaii definitely give me a ring - skype or email is best.

Realistically the little yacht won't get wet til Spring 2010.

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Hi Jim, been a while since Valencia.

 

Boat looks cool man, when you planning to be sailing,? I'm keen to come for a yacht. I'm in Mexico steering old Cup boats around but a good friend just moved to Hawaii which gives me another reason to come visit on the way back down home. Got a couch I could crash on? How did those cool powerboats end up?

 

Julian

Aloha Julian - b enn a while.

Mexico? What Cup boats found their way down there? Are they being used for charter work?

 

Thanks for the compliments on my boat - any and all encouragement is most welcome these days. Building this pretty much single handed - my right arm is about ready to fall off due to exceesive paower tool and longboarding. Getting past the initial exterior hull fairing and flipping the hull was a big relief, and doing the inner hull laminte has been a lot more "fun" - I much prefer laminating carbon - it is so beautiful and stiff. Here's a few photos - through the bow tank top/V-berth in for laughs:

 

 

If you pass through Hawaii definitely give me a ring - skype or email is best.

Realistically the little yacht won't get wet til Spring 2010.

 

I'm really going to need to edit my posts more carefully 'b enn"? "paower"? "through"?

 

I'm a bit sleep deprived after a late night in the shop - back at it again this morning to do the second stage inside laminate - photos to follow soon.

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Great! Thank you!

 

Hi Jim, looks great! How did you keep the foam in place on the mold prior to laminating?

 

Tried a method a friend used to build his 18 ft skiff: stitching with thread to the ribbands. Estimated time of completion was June 2020.

 

Called another freind/expert builder that said a few dabs of liquid nails has worked for him. That held the foam for about 12 hrs and then I heard the "pop. pop, pop, pop" fo the glue letting loose.

 

Finally tried dabs of Gorilla glue - this is the ticket - fast and hodls like crazy. As I'm removing the ribbands now for the hull I'm finding it want's to rip out the foam - it holds that well. When removing the ribband if you ben it so it shears the glue bond you are less likely to rip out the foam. We're talking drop sized chunks which are quite easy to fill when you hot coat the foam prior to laminating.

 

Up in the bow the foam was quite bent and ready to pop off the mold, so I used some heaters tand a heat gun to thermo-form the core.

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About half the length of the inner skin complete - getting narrower as I work forward so about 40% of the area remaining - should get this done in the next couple days.

Phone camera really distorts the shape - not nearly as wdie and flat as it looks in this photo.

post-3763-1254764475_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for the compliments on my boat - any and all encouragement is most welcome these days. Building this pretty much single handed . . .

 

So to set the record straight, I haven't built this boat entirely by myslef.

I have had a ton of help from Brett and Mark and a bunch of other friends who have shown up at critical stages of the build that require more than one person.

The larger laminates are not going to go well with only one person.

You need a few people to move and flip parts.

 

Moral of the story: be nice to people & make sure you're there to help them work on thier boats.

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Tradewinds have disapeared and it's been over 90 degrees in the shop the past week - makes it difficult to get as much done as I'd like.

1st trim and check of bulkheads and keel frame.

Adding foam build up at sheer for sheer radius.

Inner hull bottom "base" laminate completed and adding port side reinforcements this morning.

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Great looking project, I've enjoyed watching your progress. I'm looking forward to seeing the completed build too.

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Jim, I must say this is fun watching your progress. I like building stuff, but this is amazing. I suggest you send the second photo to Irwin tools to show them a lot of their product in use.

 

Chris

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Brett and I just picked up the hull shell (all laminate and reinforcements are completed).

Appears to right on target weight of 130 lbs for hull shell (same weight as a Laser).

Really stiff - pick up one end and the whole thing comes off the cradle witout bending.

I'll post some photos when I get back to my computer.

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Brett and I just picked up the hull shell (all laminate and reinforcements are completed).

Appears to right on target weight of 130 lbs for hull shell (same weight as a Laser).

Really stiff - pick up one end and the whole thing comes off the cradle witout bending.

I'll post some photos when I get back to my computer.

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Hi Jim,

 

I signed up with Origin and worked with them for half a year until they had to sensibly freeze operations until a normal Cup emerges from the ashes of the current forrest fire. Can't wait, they are an outstanding team to work for.

So I got a skippers ticket and got a job steering these Cup boats through some friends who set them up here in Mexico.

Two sister companies in Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas bought a set of boats each. the One Australia boat (that didn't sink) and Sydney 95 were in PV and the two TNZ boats from 2003 went in Cabo. I originally came to PV then I went to La Paz to service the rigs for the kiwi boats. We then moved the two Aussie boats to Cabo as well which means we can have back up boats or sail 3 boat tours.

 

www.cabo-adventures.com/tours/americas-cup

 

The sail over was fun. I was on Aus 29 (Syd 95), close hauled one board all the way, 18kts, 2-4m swell, full size main which can't reef, 350 miles in 32 hours with no breakages. We lost the other boat and support boat during the night (they ripped the main track off and blew some jib hanks) and they came in 12 hours later. Check it out.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9GvWY0Bsys

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=syUGRrg6IZc&feature=channel

 

It's been pretty cool steering big boats and learning the little intricacies that make them faster. We run full on match races on the tour and we don't hold back (no race fixing here). Getting pretty good at match racing now, with time on distance down pat and love the pre starts. NZL 81 still has the Hula which is glassed over so we should have the longest IACC Cup boat ever built here. 18 kts or so of wind today so i was trucking upwind at 11 kts with a non overlapping blade and a reefed main. We've got it over 17kts reaching with just the jib and reefed main. Not bad for the heavy old bus.

 

Julz

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great vids of that PV to Cabo delivery,

so weird to see an AC boat ripping along offshore like that.

are the keels original ?

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Hi Jim,

 

I signed up with Origin and worked with them for half a year until they had to sensibly freeze operations until a normal Cup emerges from the ashes of the current forrest fire. Can't wait, they are an outstanding team to work for.

So I got a skippers ticket and got a job steering these Cup boats through some friends who set them up here in Mexico.

Two sister companies in Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas bought a set of boats each. the One Australia boat (that didn't sink) and Sydney 95 were in PV and the two TNZ boats from 2003 went in Cabo. I originally came to PV then I went to La Paz to service the rigs for the kiwi boats. We then moved the two Aussie boats to Cabo as well which means we can have back up boats or sail 3 boat tours.

 

www.cabo-adventures.com/tours/americas-cup

 

The sail over was fun. I was on Aus 29 (Syd 95), close hauled one board all the way, 18kts, 2-4m swell, full size main which can't reef, 350 miles in 32 hours with no breakages. We lost the other boat and support boat during the night (they ripped the main track off and blew some jib hanks) and they came in 12 hours later. Check it out.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9GvWY0Bsys

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=syUGRrg6IZc&feature=channel

 

It's been pretty cool steering big boats and learning the little intricacies that make them faster. We run full on match races on the tour and we don't hold back (no race fixing here). Getting pretty good at match racing now, with time on distance down pat and love the pre starts. NZL 81 still has the Hula which is glassed over so we should have the longest IACC Cup boat ever built here. 18 kts or so of wind today so i was trucking upwind at 11 kts with a non overlapping blade and a reefed main. We've got it over 17kts reaching with just the jib and reefed main. Not bad for the heavy old bus.

 

Julz

 

 

Nice that your enjoying yourself in Mexico - frightening to see these old boats used for tourists; eventually something will explode. Here's a photo of one of the Aloha Racing boats now being used for charter in San Diego. I came to Hawaii to help design/build these boats abcn in 1998, and got a call after a trucker got it stuck against a telephone pole and couldn't get away from it. He just drove forward and dragged about 60 ft of the topsides against the pole. The aluminum honeycomb just crushed (like a few thousand tiny beer cans) and there was remarkably little damage to the exterior lamiante, and almost no damage to the inner skn; repair was fairly simple. Scratched up Wylands painting including the turtle! Note:Bad idea painting turtles on race boats.

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Maybe all this discussion re: 85 footers that can rarely exceed 15 knots should be shifted over to Cruising Anarchy?

 

Back on topic: All inner skin reinforcements completed last week and I've been busy with fitting all the frames. etc.

All the various layers of peel ply makes the inside look pretty ugly - like a lizard getting ready to shed. Under the peel ply is beautiflu carbon.

Ripped off the peel ply in the bow tank area and will clear-coat it prior to bonding the lid down forever.

 

Bow tank is all fitted and I built the forestay fitting yesterday - simple carbon chainplate on the tank centerline web - bonding to the hull today.

 

Cut the slot for the keel fin Monday - hull is about 3/4" solid glass and carbon right there.

 

Building the keel box today - keel fin fits in from the top and will bolt down to the keel frame.

Box is a tapered fit, so it'll seat tight every time.

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Jim,

WTF is clear primer?

Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.

I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....

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Jim,

WTF is clear primer?

Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.

I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....

 

 

AwlGrip 545 Primer - typically available in white or gray but they make a "Clear Base".

 

It's a bit thin and you need a few coats to really fill any gaps in the laminate. It also doesn't have a UV inhibitor, so won't work for parts expsoed to the sun.

 

I have a friend who prefers to use clear Duratec because it's thicker and fills better. He used this product to finish off these pesdestal guards I designed for the latest "Highland Fling"

 

I prefer the 545 because it's an epoxy base and less likely to affect any secondary bonds if I need to go back and prep a finished surface

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Jim,

WTF is clear primer?

Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.

I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....

 

 

Also need a lot of paint to make a black surface white and look reasonable.

 

I like to see the hull laminate and bonds in case the boat takes a hit and there's damage.

 

I will paint (and non-skid) the floor of the boat under the hatch white - a black hull surface gets up to around 160 degrees here in Hawaii, and it's impossible to stand on. Also better for the laminate and core to keep it cool.

 

Forward tank lid is glass lamnate and I'll paint that white because I'm going to give that a quick fill with some micro-light fairing and it'll look pretty ugly if I leave it clear.

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Looking good Jim !

 

I liked the pic of Robert in command of his own vessel - a salt if ever there was. Speaking of the needed hands to 'git 'er done' - I'll lend a hand for a couple days when you'd like, just let me know.

 

Also - the pic of the 'cut-out' fromthe keel slot shows (what looks to me to be) core - do you excavate that in the area and fill with hi-density material or is it strong enough with just the skins ?

 

DW

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Looking good Jim !

 

I liked the pic of Robert in command of his own vessel - a salt if ever there was. Speaking of the needed hands to 'git 'er done' - I'll lend a hand for a couple days when you'd like, just let me know.

 

Also - the pic of the 'cut-out' fromthe keel slot shows (what looks to me to be) core - do you excavate that in the area and fill with hi-density material or is it strong enough with just the skins ?

 

DW

 

 

Thanks for the offer Dan - come on by anytime - I'm about 1/4 mile towards Akaii from KYC.

 

The keel cut out is most solid = about 12mm of solid glass w/4mm of carbon from the inner skin reinforcement that ties in with the keel frame.

Working on that frame today and should get some carbon on it tomorrow - last bit to build before the deck goes on (it's been waiting patiently above the hull for a couple months)

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Been a while since my last post - trip back east to work on the GP26 chewed up some of my energy reserves.

But was back in the shop the day after my return home, happy to be in a warmer climate!

 

Went straight to work on building the final internal frame parts; transverse keel frame.

Made a slight modification to the design, encorporating a topside beam where I'll terminate the shrouds below-deck.

 

The transverse beams are hllow foam "boxes", with a base laminate of glass DB insode and out, and then covered with bias carbon w/a bunch of carbon UD's in the flange.

There are bulkheads inside to support the box side walls, and internal reinforcements at the keel top bolting and where some control lines penetrate the beam.

For any hollow beam you need to have access inside in case any water leaks in, so there are small "pukas" (holes) in the forward web, also reinforced.

Tapping plates for "chainplates" getting glued into today, and then I'll prep for a carbon cloth finishing layer. This isn't just a cosmetic ply and will help clamp the flange UDs to the beam.

 

The entire neam structure has been molded and released from the hull, and will be bonded in place w/a SP toughened epoxy adhesive.

 

This transverse structure is a bit more complicated than I'd do a second time - already have a concept for a simpler structure that can be built ouside the boat on a simple mold.

 

Dan came by on Saturday and made the transom foam core piece. These seemingly simple tasks take a lot longer than you imagine after you build templates, check for level, etc., etc. I put the carbon laminate on the transom last night, and will get the outside glass laminate in today.

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thanks for sharing JD, this is getting close to a 'how to' build blog for composite one-offs, with some vid you could sell the DVD

 

along that thinking Timber could do it with the i550 too ? more call for it !

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The Ed should incorporate the ability to subscribe to a thread so we can keep tabs on great threads like this. This thread is keeping me inspired to work on my project though it's a fraction of the size.

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Transom laminate - inner carbon skin & e-glass outer skin for thickness/durability

Core rebates for bonding to hull and deck and for rudder "box".

Transom is set forward 10" or so from the stern to give us a small swim step.

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Transverse keel/chainplate beams are looking good. Port side done in this photo - starboard side waiting to get final carbon cloth covering laminate.

Hope to get longitudinal beam glued in place today - might even get the transverse frames glued in too.

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Keel frame nearly completed - all parts glued into hull including flange plate.

I have one more plate to glue in - a kind of gusset plate to anchor the transverse beam flanges to the longitudinal frame and give a flate surface for the keel top plate to seal.

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Keel frame nearly completed - all parts glued into hull including flange plate.

I have one more plate to glue in - a kind of gusset plate to anchor the transverse beam flanges to the longitudinal frame and give a flate surface for the keel top plate to seal.

 

Did I mention I have resisted yanking off the nasty looking peel ply you see in all these photos?

The peel ply is worth every penny in saving prep time afterwards as it has kept all excess resin, gllue, paint off the pristine laminate surface just under the peel ply.

 

I plan to paint the hull surface in the middle of the boat and the forward tank top white - up to the chine.

Hope to pull up the peel ply this weekend and start the interior paint process so I can install the deck.

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Dropped the deck down onto the hull to check a few dimensions prior to cutting the cockpit bulkhead and transom to fit the deck.

The good news is that the deck fits perfectly to the hull - just need to trim the 20mm excess off the the deck edge so it'll match up to the topsides better.

 

I had attached some MDF at the sheer - glued to the peel ply with dabs of epoxy and cabosil, and 2x4s bracing the cockpit to hold the deck shape before I released it off the deck mold - you can see thos bracing on the photo of the deck hanging above the hull mold getting set-up (Robert's there "working").

 

When I hoisted the deck up, I was careful to use enough lines to spread the load and avoid bending the deck out of shape.

This extra effort did the trick and the deck has cured with the proper shape - the part is quite stiff and I can walk around on the deck without any bulkheads supporting it.

 

After we put the deck down on the hull, Brett and I couldn't resist "testing" the weight - eveything was there except about 6 pounds of framing.

The structure is quite light - the two of us easily lifted it off the cradle - probably under 300 lbs at this stage. It'll gain some weight with the sheer laminate and hull bottom faring/paint.

It looks very good for the finished hull and deck structure to come in at around 350 lbs.

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Dropped the deck down onto the hull to check a few dimensions prior to cutting the cockpit bulkhead and transom to fit the deck.

The good news is that the deck fits perfectly to the hull - just need to trim the 20mm excess off the the deck edge so it'll match up to the topsides better.

 

I had attached some MDF at the sheer - glued to the peel ply with dabs of epoxy and cabosil, and 2x4s bracing the cockpit to hold the deck shape before I released it off the deck mold - you can see thos bracing on the photo of the deck hanging above the hull mold getting set-up (Robert's there "working").

 

When I hoisted the deck up, I was careful to use enough lines to spread the load and avoid bending the deck out of shape.

This extra effort did the trick and the deck has cured with the proper shape - the part is quite stiff and I can walk around on the deck without any bulkheads supporting it.

 

After we put the deck down on the hull, Brett and I couldn't resist "testing" the weight - eveything was there except about 6 pounds of framing.

The structure is quite light - the two of us easily lifted it off the cradle - probably under 300 lbs at this stage. It'll gain some weight with the sheer laminate and hull bottom faring/paint.

It looks very good for the finished hull and deck structure to come in at around 350 lbs.

 

Not bad, the weight of my shaw 6.5 was 320lbs painted. Keep up the good work.

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[quote name='Kestrahl' date='Nov 18 2009, 11:55 AM' post='2575419'

 

Not bad, the weight of my shaw 6.5 was 320lbs painted. Keep up the good work.

 

Brett and I switched ends of the boat ( I lifted the bow this time) for the "weght check". We can lift it quite easily - well under 300 lbs.

I have a very accurate scale, but it only goes up to 50 pounds. Need to get a proper scale at some stage.

 

Checking my wt estimate, before paint and all the misc weights of filler and glue that gets on the boat and is classified as the "margin", the base structures should weigh 265 lbs.

 

I have allowed 23 pounds of "margin", 55 pounds for exterior paint and 22 pounds for interior paint.

This gives a total weight of 365 lbs for the completed hull & deck structures.

But the the deck and topsides are faired w/a couple coats of primer, and the only things left to fair are the hull bottom and sheer.

I suspect I'll end up well below the 365 target - I'm pretty sure I can get to the 320 lb number you achieved on your Shaw.

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How has deck mounting been going?

I have been following this thread quietly, but have noticed that its been very still recently, I imagine its because you actually have work to do and a life to live outside of the workshop and SA :)

But more photos would be cool

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The Ed should incorporate the ability to subscribe to a thread so we can keep tabs on great threads like this.

Been here since the move to the new boards three or four years ago. Top right corner of thread on a scrollover menu under "options" - see attached.

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How has deck mounting been going?

I have been following this thread quietly, but have noticed that its been very still recently, I imagine its because you actually have work to do and a life to live outside of the workshop and SA :)

But more photos would be cool

 

The past couple weeks have been interupted by a trip to Kauai to look at a 57 ft Catamarn that went on the rocks, and the Thanksgiving weekend where I only worked 2 of 4 days.

 

Progress appears glacial at this stage - a lot of prepping for interior paint/sealer prior to putting the deck on for good.

I really want to avoid having to crawl inside with a sander after the lid gets glued down!

 

Yesterday I finished laminating pre-made bonding flanges for the interior hull/deck bond. They are attached to an added foam piece at the upper edge of te topside panel to allow a large exterior sheer radius.

 

More sanding and painting today - goal is to have the deck finally gliued down by the weekend.

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Jim,

WTF is clear primer?

Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.

I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....

 

 

AwlGrip 545 Primer - typically available in white or gray but they make a "Clear Base".

 

It's a bit thin and you need a few coats to really fill any gaps in the laminate. It also doesn't have a UV inhibitor, so won't work for parts expsoed to the sun.

 

I have a friend who prefers to use clear Duratec because it's thicker and fills better. He used this product to finish off these pesdestal guards I designed for the latest "Highland Fling"

 

I prefer the 545 because it's an epoxy base and less likely to affect any secondary bonds if I need to go back and prep a finished surface

 

God love ya Jim. Are those beer holders on the pedestal guards? :P

 

This build looks incredible. Waiting for my invite. I'm on a plane when it happens.

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Schoonerman - Jim really is doing a great job, very meticulous. When I look at how it's going together he's doing a lot of built in place but not laminated in parts then removing them, cleaning them up, and bonding them in rather than direct laminations. Lots of fairing where most of us would have said "good enough", "you can't see it from my house", and the like. He's building it in my shop so I'm going to have loads of help on my future projects! (I remind him many times daily). Banking the favors! Been watching it daily, beneies to me is the learning. I've got an International 110 rebuild coming up as soon as the shop is cleared and already know it's going to be 10x better after watching Jim.

 

BTW - I've been stealing your GOTB logo, love it!

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Jim,

WTF is clear primer?

Why wouldn't you just coat it with some white 2-part LPU? Easier to clean, easier to see what's going on.

I'm not tryimg to be negative, I'm just wondering....

 

 

Also need a lot of paint to make a black surface white and look reasonable.

 

I like to see the hull laminate and bonds in case the boat takes a hit and there's damage.

 

I will paint (and non-skid) the floor of the boat under the hatch white - a black hull surface gets up to around 160 degrees here in Hawaii, and it's impossible to stand on. Also better for the laminate and core to keep it cool.

 

Forward tank lid is glass lamnate and I'll paint that white because I'm going to give that a quick fill with some micro-light fairing and it'll look pretty ugly if I leave it clear.

 

 

Hey Jim it looks awesome! -- Just a note the floor area- at the hatch you may want to consider some sort of durable removable part to take the impact of crew standing in the companion way or dropping gear down inside the boat. The U20 has a very light skin on the interior and without floor boards it would be easy to damage the hull at the companionway while putting the outboard away (tied to the compression post) or heavy crew jumping down the hatch or into the companion way to get clear of the cockpit during a gybe etc. Just a thought

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Schoonerman - Jim really is doing a great job, very meticulous. When I look at how it's going together he's doing a lot of built in place but not laminated in parts then removing them, cleaning them up, and bonding them in rather than direct laminations. Lots of fairing where most of us would have said "good enough", "you can't see it from my house", and the like. He's building it in my shop so I'm going to have loads of help on my future projects! (I remind him many times daily). Banking the favors! Been watching it daily, beneies to me is the learning. I've got an International 110 rebuild coming up as soon as the shop is cleared and already know it's going to be 10x better after watching Jim.

 

BTW - I've been stealing your GOTB logo, love it!

 

Thumper, not to hijack Jim's thread but I'm curious about your avatar, is that a 110 with a different sailplan? My brother is picking up a 110 on the East coast so I can toy with my idea of a rebuild with a 505 mast/rig. Mostly I just want the long luff spinnaker on a 110. Maybe we should start a 110 thread in S.A.

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Thumper, not to hijack Jim's thread but I'm curious about your avatar, is that a 110 with a different sailplan? My brother is picking up a 110 on the East coast so I can toy with my idea of a rebuild with a 505 mast/rig. Mostly I just want the long luff spinnaker on a 110. Maybe we should start a 110 thread in S.A.

 

Not 100% positive, but I think it's the Forte turboed 110 from this thread.

 

Haz

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Thumper, not to hijack Jim's thread but I'm curious about your avatar, is that a 110 with a different sailplan? My brother is picking up a 110 on the East coast so I can toy with my idea of a rebuild with a 505 mast/rig. Mostly I just want the long luff spinnaker on a 110. Maybe we should start a 110 thread in S.A.

 

Not 100% positive, but I think it's the Forte turboed 110 from this thread.

 

Haz

 

Thanks Haz. I love that boat, the Forte 110. I meant to stop by when I was in Hawaii a year ago, to see the 110 fleet but we never made it down to the bay.

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Schoonerman - Jim really is doing a great job, very meticulous. When I look at how it's going together he's doing a lot of built in place but not laminated in parts then removing them, cleaning them up, and bonding them in rather than direct laminations. Lots of fairing where most of us would have said "good enough", "you can't see it from my house", and the like. He's building it in my shop so I'm going to have loads of help on my future projects! (I remind him many times daily). Banking the favors! Been watching it daily, beneies to me is the learning. I've got an International 110 rebuild coming up as soon as the shop is cleared and already know it's going to be 10x better after watching Jim.

 

BTW - I've been stealing your GOTB logo, love it!

 

 

The fairing/painting process always takes way longer than most people imagine.

When costing custom build projects about 30% of the project hours go to fairing/painting.

You can reduce the hours of painting and fairing the parts by building out of molds, but then you have even a bigger number of hours into building and fairing and painting molds.

 

Although I have added some filler to the hull bottom on the interior, this is a minimal amount to fair the bonding flanges of the parts.

Everywhere filler was added it was then sanded down thin enough so you could see the laminate through it - probably less than 0.5mm average thickness.

The majority of the hull and deck surfaces have ZERO fairing added.

 

I'm very happy to get through the interior finishing stage.

The essential reason for putting in the effort is that since we'll own this little beast, I will have many hours to examine the build, and I really don't want to have the regret of wondering why I didn't spend just a little more time to get it right.

 

I owe a huge debt to Brett for letting me build in his shop, and I'm looking forward to helping him get his 110 rebuilt and out sailing.

 

First coat of clear primer went on last night. It;s een pouring rain all night, so doubting it'll be dry enough to sand and re-coat today.

Why does it always rain when during final paint jobs?

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