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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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lstsailr

Mini Transat 2009

252 posts in this topic

I've become fascinated by these boats recently and as the Mini Transat is coming up, I'm hoping that some of you can give a preview. Who the favorites are, etc.

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Favourites:

Thomas RUYANT

Bertrand DELESNE

Stéphane LE DIRAISON

Nicolas BOIDEVEZI

Outsider TRAUTMAN

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I was in La Rochelle a fw weeks a go dinghy racing, all the minis turning up for the race was just brilliant, never seen one in the flesh before, fabulous little boats. Best wishes to everyone taking part.

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Representing the PNW, check out

 

http://www.craighorsfieldracing.com/

 

Equally fascinated by the boats, wish this class or something similar could catch on here in the USA. Seems like there are plenty of venues on either coast where the Minis could shine. As it is for now I guess I have to dream about putting my wife and kids on food stamps while I learn french and move across the pond to get in on some of the action.

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Representing the PNW, check out

 

http://www.craighorsfieldracing.com/

 

Equally fascinated by the boats, wish this class or something similar could catch on here in the USA. Seems like there are plenty of venues on either coast where the Minis could shine. As it is for now I guess I have to dream about putting my wife and kids on food stamps while I learn french and move across the pond to get in on some of the action.

 

 

Also representing the PNW - yes there are two entries from Seattle - is Chris Tuttmark.

 

Craig Horsfield & Chris are both racing series (production) designs.

Craig races a Zero & Chris a Nacira650, which because 10 have not been built, must race officially in the proto rather than the series class.

 

Chris' blog is:

http://usa724-mini.blogspot.com/

 

Believe it or not, there is a brand new mini on lake Lanier, GA

 

 

Congratulations - she is looking tiptop.

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Thanks Adrian.

Things are going well on the final preparation front and the weather models and looking good for a reasonably quick trip out of Biscay.

 

 

Representing the PNW, check out

 

http://www.craighorsfieldracing.com/

 

Equally fascinated by the boats, wish this class or something similar could catch on here in the USA. Seems like there are plenty of venues on either coast where the Minis could shine. As it is for now I guess I have to dream about putting my wife and kids on food stamps while I learn french and move across the pond to get in on some of the action.

 

 

Also representing the PNW - yes there are two entries from Seattle - is Chris Tuttmark.

 

Craig Horsfield & Chris are both racing series (production) designs.

Craig races a Zero & Chris a Nacira650, which because 10 have not been built, must race officially in the proto rather than the series class.

 

Chris' blog is:

http://usa724-mini.blogspot.com/

 

Believe it or not, there is a brand new mini on lake Lanier, GA

 

 

Congratulations - she is looking tiptop.

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Adrian,

Luckily she does NOT look TipTop ;)

 

No, she looks better than that, and way better, too!

 

Just looking to see her out on the water on Sunday... eager, eager, eager to see all those boats out there!!!

 

Good luck to all

 

Cheers

Thomas

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Very nice article on the front page. I wish Jesse had been a part of it, but regardless, good luck to all, and represent!

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Very nice article on the front page. I wish Jesse had been a part of it, but regardless, good luck to all, and represent!

 

 

Jesse is racing. Ryan missed the start this year.

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Very nice article on the front page. I wish Jesse had been a part of it, but regardless, good luck to all, and represent!

 

 

Jesse is racing. Ryan missed the start this year.

 

He will miss the start, yes, but only because he's got to get things ready for bringing his boat south, and for shipping himself out. He's been of great help to a lot of people around here.

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Believe it or not, there is a brand new mini on lake Lanier, GA

 

 

and it's red. Yum.

 

What kind o' mini is it?

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and it's red. Yum.

 

What kind o' mini is it?

The red kind. Duh.

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Believe it or not, there is a brand new mini on lake Lanier, GA

 

 

and it's red. Yum.

 

What kind o' mini is it?

 

 

It's a French built TipTop.

There are 6 of them in this year's MT.

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Nice of Sam Davis to show up!

Besides many other people...

 

Good pics here: http://www.transat650.org/fr/mediatheque/photos.html

 

 

There has GOT to be a way we can generate this kind of enthusiasm for a similar type of race in the US. These pics blew me away, clearly the organizers have got this event figured out, DROVES of people walking the docks checking out the boats and race village. And clearly from the pics tons of KIDS involved in the whole deal (look carefully: KIDS invited aboard the boats, model racing in the tank for KIDS, etc).

 

I've been racing for 20 years, last 6 years with kids in tow, have NEVER seen a SINGLE event or display set up for kids. It's stupid and shortsighted. Why are we so lousy at pulling the young folks into our sport??? I just finished a great day of racing on a sunny fall day, can guarantee there wasn't a single person under the age of 20 on any of the 10 boats out today.

 

Why are we doing it wrong???

 

Not to completely hijack this thread, but it's just so frustrating!!

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Nice of Sam Davis to show up!

Besides many other people...

 

Good pics here: http://www.transat650.org/fr/mediatheque/photos.html

 

 

There has GOT to be a way we can generate this kind of enthusiasm for a similar type of race in the US. These pics blew me away, clearly the organizers have got this event figured out, DROVES of people walking the docks checking out the boats and race village. And clearly from the pics tons of KIDS involved in the whole deal (look carefully: KIDS invited aboard the boats, model racing in the tank for KIDS, etc).

 

I've been racing for 20 years, last 6 years with kids in tow, have NEVER seen a SINGLE event or display set up for kids. It's stupid and shortsighted. Why are we so lousy at pulling the young folks into our sport??? I just finished a great day of racing on a sunny fall day, can guarantee there wasn't a single person under the age of 20 on any of the 10 boats out today.

 

Why are we doing it wrong???

 

Not to completely hijack this thread, but it's just so frustrating!!

 

Good, insightful observations about the Euro Classe Mini embracing kids & families.

The kids follow the fleet & during the race exchange messages with the skippers, some of whom visited schools and talked about sailing & the environment, peace, health & development.

Many of the boats are associated with non-government oganizatioms.

Tomorrow there will be thousands watching the boats leave the harbour.

There will also be hundreds on boats, including charter passenger boats organized for the event.

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I too got a chuckle out of that.

Start is in just under 6 hours, looking like it will be a quick trip for the first 2/3 and then moderating a bit. Could be 35 gusting 40 at Finisterre when we get there, yahoo.

 

One day to the start.

 

Interesting that Chris has been dubbed 'debonaire'.

Not many PNW riggers get that kind of recognition from the French.

See:

http://www.transat650.org/fr/photos/page/2

 

 

Craig does see some issues as b & w, so this pic is congruent.

http://www.transat650.org/fr/photos/page/13

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Actually every skipper has a school attached to them, lots of the schools go to the start. The youth hostel is full of kids talking about sailing now ... The mainsail has a painting of a few square feet made by the school.

Its a great way to connect for a lifetime with the coming generation.

 

Damn this is the first start I will miss in more then 14 yrs

 

And a famous photographer taking the time to make portraits of all competitors... thats new for me:

For the Jesse fans

http://www.thmartinez.com/data_folio/data_..._176_01_img.jpg

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Can anyone tell me if their is any online web coverage of the start today? Wish I was there...

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Can anyone tell me if their is any online web coverage of the start today? Wish I was there...

 

The race site has regular rankings for the fleet, series & protos.

You can track the fleet & individual boats all the way across.

Go to:

http://www.transat650.org

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Nice of Sam Davis to show up!

Besides many other people...

 

Good pics here: http://www.transat650.org/fr/mediatheque/photos.html

 

 

There has GOT to be a way we can generate this kind of enthusiasm for a similar type of race in the US. These pics blew me away, clearly the organizers have got this event figured out, DROVES of people walking the docks checking out the boats and race village. And clearly from the pics tons of KIDS involved in the whole deal (look carefully: KIDS invited aboard the boats, model racing in the tank for KIDS, etc).

 

I've been racing for 20 years, last 6 years with kids in tow, have NEVER seen a SINGLE event or display set up for kids. It's stupid and shortsighted. Why are we so lousy at pulling the young folks into our sport??? I just finished a great day of racing on a sunny fall day, can guarantee there wasn't a single person under the age of 20 on any of the 10 boats out today.

 

Why are we doing it wrong???

 

Not to completely hijack this thread, but it's just so frustrating!!

 

 

Vendee, Figaro, Mini Transat, whatever, public support and enthusiasm for sailing almost wants to make me move there. Almost.

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Favourites:

Thomas RUYANT

Bertrand DELESNE

Stéphane LE DIRAISON

Nicolas BOIDEVEZI

Outsider TRAUTMAN

 

Andrea Caracci.

 

And Franciso Lobato, Pierre Rolland and Riccardo Apolloni (let's not forget the series).

 

And Izabel Pimentel - I KNOW SHE WON'T WIN, but she seems a funny, crazy little girl.

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The race started in good conditions & all 3 US entries crossed the line among the 86 entries without mishap.

 

After 19 hrs Jesse is in 19th place among the 36 protos.

In the early hours he was 16th & lost a few places as he chose to go N.

 

Chris, officially racing in the protos with a series boat because 10 Nacira650's have not yet been built, is placed 24th - Mini Anarchy is ahead of 12 protos.

 

Craig is placed 24th in the 49 boat series fleet about 5 miles ahead of Chris.

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Not Andrea, he is italian, so he can not win :) (is the saying of French Med mini sailors...)

 

For the series, Dalin is a fighter, he will do good...

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Not Andrea, he is italian, so he can not win :) (is the saying of French Med mini sailors...)

 

For the series, Dalin is a fighter, he will do good...

 

Yeap, Charlie is a fighter. No Transat yet though so might be tough for him. Specialy second leg.

Interesting to see how Series are keeping pace with protos this year. In general ranking we have 4th, 5th, 7th...

If I remember corectly the series didn't get in top 15 at the end, and not even in first 25 on the first leg.

 

Looks like some crazy sailing round Finistere. 30-40 kt + waves + downind will separate boys from men. Even if they are women ;)

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Spoke (emailed) with Craig extensively before the start about the conditions until around Finisterre. It will pose the first real separation point for the fleet. Craig may try to pace himself until then so that he and the boat are in good form for that stretch of the leg. His experience in 2 1000 mile down wind runs in gale conditions from Seattle to California should pay off!

 

So far so good!

 

Go the Seattle Boys!

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Thanks for the updates. Go Mini Anarchy! (I had no idea he was racing with the protos...that ain't easy!)

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It was pretty clear before the start that there would be only a handful of proto camapaigns truly prepared to have a full on race. It was also clear that the deepest fleet was in the series class, and it's showing. Mr. Loboto is really taking the fleet to school IMHO. Protos included. It's a great thing to witness. I'm not saying anything else because I don't want to jinx anyone.

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He races in proto claas, but everyone knows its a serie boat. so official yes proto, unofficial, no.

 

IF you do not push yourself hard the first days you loose a good position for the first leg.

 

Ryan, I count more then a handfull of well funded trained campaigns...

And the depth of series class, most of them newbies, except Loboto and a few others. Pre season says nothing over racing the MT itself... I heard the depth of the series is not that deep. THat Loboto leads is no wonder...

 

When a few days of upwind work will come the series drop down...

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Thomas Ruyant on Faber France is using one of NKE's kick ass HR Pilots, and from what I have heard has had a well funded and organized campaign. I am going to place my bet on him to win.

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When a few days of upwind work will come the series drop down...

 

Actually upwind or downwind there should be more separation. It is not just one Serie that is taking a flyer. As said in 07 there were no serie boats in first 25 after first leg and conditions were similar to these (admitedly lighter in biscay).

Why do you think that is happening?

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Thomas Ruyant on Faber France is using one of NKE's kick ass HR Pilots, and from what I have heard has had a well funded and organized campaign. I am going to place my bet on him to win.

 

Which pilot is that?

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Thomas Ruyant on Faber France is using one of NKE's kick ass HR Pilots, and from what I have heard has had a well funded and organized campaign. I am going to place my bet on him to win.

 

Which pilot is that?

 

They refer to it as the HR Pilot. It works in conjunction with their new Regatta Processor software, Regatta HR Processor CPU and high resolution (HR) sensors.

 

It is the same version of their pilot that Mich used during the Vendee. Faster bus speeds, awesome data quality, far more sophisticated algorithms for crunching the data and a great deal more control over the pilots management of the boat's pitch, yaw and roll. Oh, and reduced power consumption.

 

It is absolutely Pure Sex when it comes to boat instrumentation.

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The 24 hr mileages are listed:

 

Thomas Ruyant leading proto 246.67 miles

Francisco Lobuto .. .. series 233.17 ..

 

Jesse (proto) 189.49 miles

Craig (series) 183.31 ..

Chris (series racing as proto) 182.07 ..

 

Not bad for 21' 6" loa & single handed!

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The 24 hr mileages are listed:

 

Thomas Ruyant leading proto 246.67 miles

Francisco Lobuto .. .. series 233.17 ..

 

Jesse (proto) 189.49 miles

Craig (series) 183.31 ..

Chris (series racing as proto) 182.07 ..

 

Not bad for 21' 6" loa & single handed!

 

So about 6% difference between Ruyant and Lobato... just as Finot said:

 

"The two days difference between the first prototype and the first Pogo2 represent 7% in speed difference, most of it coming from the light airs in the doldrums. "

( http://www.finot.com/general/index_ang.htm ).

 

But I agree, really impressive...

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The 24 hr mileages are listed:

 

Thomas Ruyant leading proto 246.67 miles

Francisco Lobuto .. .. series 233.17 ..

 

Jesse (proto) 189.49 miles

Craig (series) 183.31 ..

Chris (series racing as proto) 182.07 ..

 

Not bad for 21' 6" loa & single handed!

 

So about 6% difference between Ruyant and Lobato... just as Finot said:

 

"The two days difference between the first prototype and the first Pogo2 represent 7% in speed difference, most of it coming from the light airs in the doldrums. "

( http://www.finot.com/general/index_ang.htm ).

 

But I agree, really impressive...

 

 

After 43 hrs the US Minis are about to round Finisterre & get out of the Bay of Biscay.

Jesse is now 22nd & Chris 23rd in the proto class

Craig is now 25th in the series class.

All 3 boats are fairly close.

Jesse leads Chris by 9.5 miles & Craig is less than 1 mile behind Chris.

They are keeping up the pace - still showing 183 miles for their last 24 hrs.

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Wow, if I'm reading this right, we have Pogo2's in second and fourth position overall. You'd think the more powered up and lighter weight proto's would be running away in these conditions. I suppose this is a testament a higher level of professionalism in the Series class?

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I studied the pre-season results of a couple of 07 sailors a bit to compare them to the Transat results, and in the cases I chose I found a direct correlation between the pre-season averaged results and the Transat results. I scored them as a percentage of boats in each race, and only used races where there were more than 25 boats racing. For example, Clay's results averaged out to 12th place and Kristian came out to 8th. For this race I did Cultisol, Faber France, Kickers and AT Children's project, only up to the Winches Club Mini Fastnet. Cultisol and Faber are tied for third and Kickers comes in at 14th and Remi shows a 5th. Of course nobody will average a 1st so 3rd-5th is pretty much an open book. We'll see in Brazil. This made me rethink the pre-season results myth though. I think it's just something people tell eachother to stay possitive, which is important. Of course anyone can crash or take a flyer and lose any race, and you can see it happening now.

 

I also believe whole heartedly that there is a difference between well funded and trained, and good. Some of these guys have all the advantages on paper but may lack experience, intuition or moral. The guys who have the funding, and the right mind set will come out on top as they always do. It's clear to me who those guys are, but I won't say nothing.

 

As for the Pogo 2 Worlds going on right now. Those boats are way heavier than the new protos, maybe as much as 500 lbs or so. They have less sail area (a lot less) hanging from an ali rig, no moving ballast, soft glass hulls and shallower draft. I think what's happening out there is that the "one design" fleet has gotten really good. Similar to how the Melges 24 did badly in PHRF at first and now seems to sail to its rating quite well. Sails, rig tuning and technique all improve, and during that process the sailors also became really good. Also some of the series campaigns have really good budgets to support highly focused training on simple boats. Not a bad combination.

 

This has been really good to watch though. There are a lot of lessons to be learned here.

 

Go Team America (that includes Craig because of his passport).

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This has been really good to watch though. There are a lot of lessons to be learned here.

 

Thanks for this very interesting insight (esp. on the Pogo2)...

I am now waiting for LeoV's comments! :)

 

C.

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I studied the pre-season results of a couple of 07 sailors a bit to compare them to the Transat results, and in the cases I chose I found a direct correlation between the pre-season averaged results and the Transat results. I scored them as a percentage of boats in each race, and only used races where there were more than 25 boats racing. For example, Clay's results averaged out to 12th place and Kristian came out to 8th. For this race I did Cultisol, Faber France, Kickers and AT Children's project, only up to the Winches Club Mini Fastnet. Cultisol and Faber are tied for third and Kickers comes in at 14th and Remi shows a 5th. Of course nobody will average a 1st so 3rd-5th is pretty much an open book. We'll see in Brazil. This made me rethink the pre-season results myth though. I think it's just something people tell eachother to stay possitive, which is important. ...

 

Ryan,

 

Does there exists a difference in your pre-season vs. MT analysis for protos and minis?

 

Are there any outliers of any kind? Take Brossard in '07 for example: I think this bucks the trend in one key aspect. Ancient boat in fact, but with a great record and a great technology. Plenty of funding and prep. Well sailed it proved the equal and better of plenty of newer boats, which should have been faster on paper. How was Brossards run up to the MT?

 

I am trying to understand if, for example, success in the pre-season simply empowers the sailor to believe they will stay in touch with the front during the MT. Believing one can stay in touch with the leaders can mean you don't hesitate to do a maneuver, check the stack, make a sail change, and the 1000's of little things it actually takes to be a leader.

 

I guess I am asking if the tail can wag the dog?

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I didn't really do series, and I only did a few boats before I went into predictions for this race, because I'm impatient and curious. That was just after Fastnet though, so a while back. I was just curious if there was a correlation and there was enough of one for me to say that yes, preseason results matter. It would be interesting to do something more in depth, but it takes a bit of time.

 

For the Brossard example, I think what's happening in the race right now shows that preparation is still the deciding factor, both for boat and skipper. In that case, they took a good platform of a boat (198) and made it faster with the same talented skipper for the whole process. Adrian was probably very well in tune with the boat and it's every sound and quirk, and seemed to simply focus on sailing the boat he had very well. Probably more people should do that. So yes, I think the tail can wag the dog. At the end of the day this is definitely a head game. Right now there are a bunch of sailors out there being neurotic because they are tired and psychologically very vulnerable. That bogs down the brain and is slow.

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Wow, Lobato now has a 4 mile lead in his Pogo2. Must be averaging at least .25kt faster than the proto right next to him....relentless! If the meteo is to be believed, downhill in 34kt of breeze. No way to catch any sleep in that!

 

Jesse +2 , about to round Finisterre.

Chris -6

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Ryans points are well taken.

 

However, I think there may be another explanation for the speed similarities between the leading Pogo2s and protos. In the initial stage of the race in more moderate winds the protos pulled ahead. It was not until the wind consistently topped 26-28 kn and got gusty close to Finisterre that the Pogo2s pulled up. At these wind speeds even downwind nobody sets max rag, everyone gears down a bit. This negates the advantage the protos have with their taller rigs. In fact, I would think a a slightly heavier boat with a shorter stick in 30 kn + would not have a disadvantage anymore. Wait for the lighter conditions closer to Madera and the protos will pull ahead again.

 

But in the end it is the balls of the sailor that count...

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Can one of y'all give me a short list of the major differences between protos and series?

 

i.e,

Metal v. Carbon rig?

Canting v. Fixed keel?

 

Sorry, no time to look around...

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I must say I'm deeply disappointed about my Proto colleagues. Serie boats no doubt benefited a bit trough strong competition throughout the season, but still these are mostly new guys (except Lobato none of serie forerunners did MT07). But Series are basically doing what they were doing in 07. Averaging about 240-250 miles per day and it is protos that are not showing what they are capable of. In 07 we had 296, 284, 278 miles per day on protos and about 240-250 on series in very similar conditions.

You also have to know that Transat is very different cup of tea than other races (except maybe Acores race). Different skills jump in front, knowledge of using you autopilot, managing the stress of several days of downwind running with averages round 10kt, sleeping, eating and resting in these conditions...

In 05 for instance I had top 5 results in "normal" races - Fastnet, Select... but burned down on MT.

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But in the end it is the balls of the sailor that count...

And I'd say that guy leading with the Pogo must have some brass ones. Your comments about the conditions actually favoring the Series makes sense to me. Thinking about it, he may actually be a little better rested on the heavier boat as well. Must be one wild ride.

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Series

E-glass only hull

polyester resin hull only

uncored hull (coremat allowed)

shorter rig

no swing keel

no water ballast

shorter draft

higher freeboard

minimal accomodations

10 boats built after Classe Mini inspection

 

what did I forget Jan?

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You have to think again about the philosophy of heavier=faster. More stable is faster, but pogos with shorter keels are hardly more stable than protos.

If you are heavier you only accelerate slower and bury bow deeper in the waves. Sure sailor skills and balls are more important in 30+ knots than in 15 where boat speed is more important factor but still.

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Andraz, I'm thinking in these condition that the proto is likely to accelerate more quickly and require more pilot action (manual or auto), where the series might be more forgiving on the helm. I've seen this in PWC's (forgive me for mentioning them in this forum) where in extreme conditions the heavier boat is not catching air and is able to maintain higher average speeds. I'm sure this time tomorrow we'll see the proto's reeling off the miles over the series.

 

Clean, forgot the aluminum mast on the series boat. Carbon allowed on the proto.

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My experience was just opposite. After we shaved off 100kg from 05 to 07 Transat boat behaved better and more controlled.

Problem for the pilot is not the acceleration but deceleration when you run down the wave with 18+ boat speed and bury the bow in to the face of the wave in front of you. When the boat is lighter that is not so violent (unless you are VO70 that stops for no one).

Anyway as said protos are about 40 miles away from their 24h targets and here lies the reason for their current results.

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other differences:

 

Proto has 1m taller rig

Proto has carbon rig, boom, sprit

Series only alu allowed and sprit is limited to 240 cm, 25 cm shorter boom given same mast location,

no structural carbon in hull deck or fins

 

Andraz, my point was not necessarily heavier = faster, but that in 30 kn a little heavier (% difference in MT trim is less than in empty boat trim) is not necessarily slower anymore. Control becomes the limiting issue. same reason why they load up open 60s with water in heavy conditions (yes, I know that is done through AFT ballast, but principle still applies...)

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other differences:

 

Proto has 1m taller rig

Proto has carbon rig, boom, sprit

Series only alu allowed and sprit is limited to 240 cm, 25 cm shorter boom given same mast location,

no structural carbon in hull deck or fins

 

Andraz, my point was not necessarily heavier = faster, but that in 30 kn a little heavier (% difference in MT trim is less than in empty boat trim) is not necessarily slower anymore. Control becomes the limiting issue. same reason why they load up open 60s with water in heavy conditions (yes, I know that is done through AFT ballast, but principle still applies...)

 

 

I am following the 3 Zeros in particular in the series class.

There are more Zeros in North America than TipTops & Pogos.

So looking at the same boat (tho more recent builds are a little lighter), Hugo with 2 prior MTs in 2005 & 2007 is in 10th place & Craig 25th & Joel (the Zero builder) in 26th.

All 3 are well prepared.

Joel ex Spanish Figaro champ & Craig quite a few SH miles & several Euro Mini races under his belt.

Here it definitely looks like the MT experience & SH miles are paying off for Hugo.

He is 70+ miles ahead.

For a North American to win the Series class it is probably going to take several campaigns.

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I'm gotta go with Andraz on this one. Lighter is easier, requires less sail area and is above the water more. Which one looks happier?

 

 

 

How did you shave 100kg?

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Andraz and Kokopelli are both right IMHO, it seems that the protos due to swell/wind have trouble to get maximum speed,

the proto with best score is a Lombard, and that has always been a bit easier to drive design due to rocker.

And some the series can go at max speed (experience and gusto), wait till the swell and wind gets a bit down and the protos will walk away.

I understand the swell is really big now.

 

And I think we will hear about a few daggerboard problems of protos, or they sail them raised more not to brake them...

Such kind of worries does a serie not have :)

 

And yes, the Pogo2 is now very understood in sail development/polars, something that takes years for a proto....

 

At least its a good race with some twists...

 

ps, glad Andraz agrees with almost forget pre minitransat results in series, with protos with more experienced sailors you can do better calculations. THought that Ryan did mean results in series as proof of depth of series field.

When the times are there that the series are better prepared then the protos, it will be the end of the exciting nature of the MInitransat for me. Better race Figaros for that :)

 

PSS Namt, I believe HUgo is very cashstrapped and racing with old stuff. His experience gets him high in the ranking.

Graig did his best, but its hard to be really good prepared if you do not live in the EU, so hats of for him and any other sailor coming from far away to sail the MT...

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Hugo is looking good! All the time and miles are paying off.

 

It is work to kick a Zero along like that. Who Knew a Zero could move like that... :-)

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the proto with best score is a Lombard, and that has always been a bit easier to drive design due to rocker.

And some the series can go at max speed (experience and gusto), wait till the swell and wind gets a bit down and the protos will walk away.

I understand the swell is really big now.

And I think we will hear about a few daggerboard problems of protos, or they sail them raised more not to brake them...

 

No daggerboards downiwnd Leo I had only one on 07 if you remember ;)

And I have to repeat myself - protos should average about 40 miles more in this conditions. We had 35 running down Portugese coast and I don't remember any Pogos getting even close.

Don't think this year's protos will walk away from this years series. I still expect 2 pogos in top 5 which is outrageus.

Fastest boats in this conditions are Manuards (me and Sam hold record on that).

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the proto with best score is a Lombard, and that has always been a bit easier to drive design due to rocker.

And some the series can go at max speed (experience and gusto), wait till the swell and wind gets a bit down and the protos will walk away.

I understand the swell is really big now.

And I think we will hear about a few daggerboard problems of protos, or they sail them raised more not to brake them...

 

No daggerboards downiwnd Leo I had only one on 07 if you remember ;)

And I have to repeat myself - protos should average about 40 miles more in this conditions. We had 35 running down Portugese coast and I don't remember any Pogos getting even close.

Don't think this year's protos will walk away from this years series. I still expect 2 pogos in top 5 which is outrageus.

Fastest boats in this conditions are Manuards (me and Sam hold record on that).

 

 

Andraz what was your best day's mileage on leg 1 & leg 2 in '07?

What were the perfect conditions for you on those days?

Many thanks for your insights here.

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Andraz what was your best day's mileage on leg 1 & leg 2 in '07?

What were the perfect conditions for you on those days?

Many thanks for your insights here.

 

296 miles in 24h 25-35kt downind 3-4m waves

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Andraz what was your best day's mileage on leg 1 & leg 2 in '07?

What were the perfect conditions for you on those days?

Many thanks for your insights here.

 

296 miles in 24h 25-35kt downind 3-4m waves

 

12.3 kts. Awesome. Sam set the (mini) 24 record in first leg, IIRC was over 14 kts. Does it still stand?

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Yeap Sam did something like 284? He could do a bit better as well but he had problems with keel fin flutter when he crossed 17kt. He had to reinforce the fin on Madeira and take time penalty for that.

I did mine on the same leg but apparently wasn't officialy ratified because of lack of satelite positions on some parts of the route. It was a bit funny on Madeira since same guys congratulated me for the record (i didn't even know I broke), but then refused to ratify it.

But most of the top guys crossed 260 miles, quite a few 270 miles.

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That is an excellent record. I remember watching you guys and the speeds were way up from where they are now. I think you've answered your question about what's going on. This has been an interesting thread for sure.

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Andraz, why do you think the protos are slower this time ?

More careful ? Less competition ? Different seastate ? Hard to guess when not onboard :)

 

Before on the long races a serie only came close when doing a flyer last Acores) , not a big fleet ( mostly in the med) (if my memory is right...) otherwhise the best place scratch was an eight place...

 

And I think this is the first time since serie became serious... a high ranked sailor in serie like Lobato returns again in serie, most of them step up into proto.. maybe thats not needed , ughhhhh

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Andraz what was your best day's mileage on leg 1 & leg 2 in '07?

What were the perfect conditions for you on those days?

Many thanks for your insights here.

 

296 miles in 24h 25-35kt downind 3-4m waves

 

 

Andraz, 296 - that is amazing.

I did remember you had some very high days - pity about the sat coverage.

How many hours was that on the pilot?

With 3-4m waves you must have had some very long surf rides.

 

 

A little bad news from one of 'our' guys this morning.

The race site reports Craig having rudder problems & needing to repair at sea.

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Andraz what was your best day's mileage on leg 1 & leg 2 in '07?

What were the perfect conditions for you on those days?

Many thanks for your insights here.

 

296 miles in 24h 25-35kt downind 3-4m waves

 

 

Andraz, 296 - that is amazing.

I did remember you had some very high days - pity about the sat coverage.

How many hours was that on the pilot?

With 3-4m waves you must have had some very long surf rides.

 

 

A little bad news from one of 'our' guys this morning.

The race site reports Craig having rudder problems & needing to repair at sea.

 

 

Craig has lost about 50 miles & 10 places in the rankings.

Chris is now 55 miles ahead of Craig & Jesse is edging ahead to be leading Chris by 24 miles.

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And, just to confirm Leo's easy prophecy, Andrea Caracci slowed down for the same reason, problems with the helm.

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And, just to confirm Leo's easy prophecy, Andrea Caracci slowed down for the same reason, problems with the helm.

 

 

Some bad news.

Craig has arrived in Porto - so he could not make the repairs to his rudder at sea as was first reported.

 

Some good news.

Chris has moved up in the proto rankings to 26th.

He has pulled back a few of the miles he lost earlier to Jesse & is now 19 miles behind Reality.

He has 500+ miles to go & it is very interesting that if he was in the series class he would have exactly the same rank, 26th.

 

With only 240 miles to go Loboto is still in the lead by 2 miles.

The second ranked series boat is 6th in the overall fleet rankings & over 100 miles behind the leader.

With approximately 26/27 hrs to go, at their current speeds, can Loboto keep the lead?

 

If he can, will this be the first time a production boat has won a MT leg?

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I've got a bad feeling...

Don't say that.

 

Hope he's able to rock on.

 

Jörg Riechers on his proto out... hm.

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Lots of reports of 'wear & tear' from the fleet this morning.

Even Lobato was racing at 4.3 knots for a while, but he is flying again & still in the lead.

 

Craig is in Porto.

 

Jesse has had mainsail problems & had to climb the mast.

He has lost some miles & is now only 2 miles ahead of Chris.

 

Chris continues to barrel down the coast.

Will he be the first US boat to finish leg 1?

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lobato is making an amazing race.

hope he is able to stay in front of the protos.

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Should not have said that, the Lombard Design office boat is in front of Lobato, and Delesne.

 

Still wondering why the speed difference, came to my mind:

LeDiraison did last time serie, and rocked big time. Do not think that he would slow down, or is a slow sailor. THough some serie sailors had a difficult time in protos. But even Depres who raced proto last time (very fast) was now in the slower mood--- interesting.....

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Should not have said that, the Lombard Design office boat is in front of Lobato, and Delesne.

 

Still wondering why the speed difference, came to my mind:

LeDiraison did last time serie, and rocked big time. Do not think that he would slow down, or is a slow sailor. THough some serie sailors had a difficult time in protos. But even Depres who raced proto last time (very fast) was now in the slower mood--- interesting.....

 

Nothing changed in the rule that accounts for it. My bet is a combination of factors, not one. Righting moment intensive angle of sail with a sea state / wavelength, that did not allow the protos to stretch their legs.

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Should not have said that, the Lombard Design office boat is in front of Lobato, and Delesne.

 

Still wondering why the speed difference, came to my mind:

LeDiraison did last time serie, and rocked big time. Do not think that he would slow down, or is a slow sailor. THough some serie sailors had a difficult time in protos. But even Depres who raced proto last time (very fast) was now in the slower mood--- interesting.....

 

 

Lobato is now 2nd, 8 miles behind Schipman and 5 miles ahead of Duchesne with 150 miles to go.

Maybe not 1st but still a strong podium possibility for a series boat if the weather stays the same.

 

Lombard's protos continue to show superiority.

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Should not have said that, the Lombard Design office boat is in front of Lobato, and Delesne.

 

Still wondering why the speed difference, came to my mind:

LeDiraison did last time serie, and rocked big time. Do not think that he would slow down, or is a slow sailor. THough some serie sailors had a difficult time in protos. But even Depres who raced proto last time (very fast) was now in the slower mood--- interesting.....

 

 

Lobato is now 2nd, 8 miles behind Schipman and 5 miles ahead of Duchesne with 150 miles to go.

Maybe not 1st but still a strong podium possibility for a series boat if the weather stays the same.

 

Lombard's protos continue to show superiority.

 

 

The protos are speeding up.

Bertrand Delesne hit 274 miles today.

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If he can, will this be the first time a production boat has won a MT leg?

 

Laurent Bourgnon won the second leg on a Coco in 1987.

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If he can, will this be the first time a production boat has won a MT leg?

 

Laurent Bourgnon won the second leg on a Coco in 1987.

 

 

With 100 miles to the finish line Lobato is in 2nd place.

There are 4 series boats in the top 10 but the protos are picking up their pace.

 

 

Craig is back at sea, in last place, with 641 miles to go & the nearest competitor 84 miles ahead of him.

 

Chris has passed Jesse & leads Reality by 1 mile.

This gain may reflect Jesse's problems with his main.

He had to climb the mast & he may now pull ahead of Chris again.

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Lots of reports of 'wear & tear' from the fleet this morning.

Even Lobato was racing at 4.3 knots for a while, but he is flying again & still in the lead.

 

Craig is in Porto.

 

Jesse has had mainsail problems & had to climb the mast.

He has lost some miles & is now only 2 miles ahead of Chris.

 

Chris continues to barrel down the coast.

Will he be the first US boat to finish leg 1?

 

 

Having made repairs, Craig left Porto very late at night...I'm not sure exactly when--Carolyn's email was sent at 0342UT. It's raining and there was absolutely no wind, so he took a nap in the marina before leaving. The 0430UT position report has him moving at 4.7 knots, about 7 nm from Porto.

 

He says he hit a whale while blasting down a big wave , and tore the lower rudder fitting off the boat, causing a lot of delamination and tearing a fist-size hole in the transom. It was getting dark when it happened--he's not sure how the whale fared. Without the leeward rudder in 40 knots of wind, he had many, many wipeouts on the trip to Porto, and at one point was knee deep in water. He was exausted when he arrived shortly after dawn, initially unable to find help to repair the boat.

 

He managed to find someone in Porto to help him fix the boat. This person deserves special credit because they apparently worked very late into the night. Craig says the repair is a "band-aid" and he'll need to do something better in Madeira. He's unhappy about how much fiberglass it took.

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Lots of reports of 'wear & tear' from the fleet this morning.

Even Lobato was racing at 4.3 knots for a while, but he is flying again & still in the lead.

 

Craig is in Porto.

 

Jesse has had mainsail problems & had to climb the mast.

He has lost some miles & is now only 2 miles ahead of Chris.

 

Chris continues to barrel down the coast.

Will he be the first US boat to finish leg 1?

 

 

Having made repairs, Craig left Porto very late at night...I'm not sure exactly when--Carolyn's email was sent at 0342UT. It's raining and there was absolutely no wind, so he took a nap in the marina before leaving. The 0430UT position report has him moving at 4.7 knots, about 7 nm from Porto.

 

He says he hit a whale while blasting down a big wave , and tore the lower rudder fitting off the boat, causing a lot of delamination and tearing a fist-size hole in the transom. It was getting dark when it happened--he's not sure how the whale fared. Without the leeward rudder in 40 knots of wind, he had many, many wipeouts on the trip to Porto, and at one point was knee deep in water. He was exausted when he arrived shortly after dawn, initially unable to find help to repair the boat.

 

He managed to find someone in Porto to help him fix the boat. This person deserves special credit because they apparently worked very late into the night. Craig says the repair is a "band-aid" and he'll need to do something better in Madeira. He's unhappy about how much fiberglass it took.

 

 

 

Jesse is up to full speed again & now leads Chris by 11 miles.

Craig is back in full race mode too with 170+ miles clocked in last 24hrs.

 

Lobato now 10 miles back in 2nd place & it will be a tight finish for 3rd place.

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HI Syde, I think youre right, nut was wondering if Andraz who did it twice could tell more :)

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"Office info

 

Off the record's info, and purely illustrative because such figures are validated by no organization, but still here is the result of observations made by the race director: Bertrand Delesne, Entreprendre Durablement has established a new record for distance covered in 24 hours this week with 273, 1 miles at 11.4 knots average. Bravo... "

 

Above quote cut & pasted from the website.

 

I think the claim is the fastest 24 hrs for leg 1 of this race, not the course record.

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It says this week :) So highest speed so far in this race. Seems were up to speed, so same speed and not slower.. must have been the waves or so that slowed them down. And the effect that series (in hands of LObato) getting faster...

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This finish must be awesome. Schipman v. Lobato match race for the last 4 miles.

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Lobato is fist place and second boat :-)

 

 

Delesne 6 days, 0 hrs, 21 mins, 21 secs

 

Lobato 6 .. , 2 hrs, 31 .., 03

 

Schipman 6 .., 2 .., 40 mins, 13

 

 

What an amazing finish after 1250 miles !!

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hats off to Craig. RESPECT!!

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Respect indeed. Craig has a tough couple of days. While he is back on the water, he is not out of the woods yet. Both his rudders show damage from the impact with the wale, and one has a significant number of horizontal stress cracks. His hull is just globbed together this some polyester and glass for a temporary fix. He is going to need to do a propper fix in Madera.

 

Does anyone have contacts in Madera to help him?

 

Jan

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Wow- superb sailing from Lobato! I've wondered how dinghy sailors would stack up in the world of Mimi racing- guess pretty well indeed! I'm reminded of a quote I read from the Volvo from an "old hand" to the effect that "Now these guys are coming in from the Olympics and they race with so much intensity- they just never stop pushing..."

 

This from the Transat 6.50 site:

 

If HP Schipman admits that he stayed for four days inside his boat, Francisco acknowledges that "I have manoeuvre a lot, and very much changed the sails.” The difference is here. As prophesied Pierre Rolland: "The favourite is Lobato. He has an excellent boat. He is a good sailor and does not spend his time speaking to the VHF. He, he sails. "

 

!

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Oh, QUESTION- Is the race overall scored by finish positions for the two legs, or by combining the elapsed times?

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Respect indeed. Craig has a tough couple of days. While he is back on the water, he is not out of the woods yet. Both his rudders show damage from the impact with the wale, and one has a significant number of horizontal stress cracks. His hull is just globbed together this some polyester and glass for a temporary fix. He is going to need to do a propper fix in Madera.

 

Does anyone have contacts in Madera to help him?

 

Jan

 

 

Hi Jan,

 

That is bad news for Craig.

He seems to attract whales - not a close encounter this time.

 

I may have a contact for him on Madeira - please check for a PM.

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