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hikenboots

I Have Rights!

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During this year's Mobile Bay Dauphin Island Race, this Beneteau got on the radio and began screaming that "He had rights!!". He then received the "I just ran over you and killed your dumb ass" 5 horn blow. They missed but I think no one was in the mood to finish their mimosas and finger sandwiches.

post-35974-1253034418.jpg

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During this year's Mobile Bay Dauphin Island Race, this Beneteau got on the radio and began screaming that "He had rights!!". He then received the "I just ran over you and killed your dumb ass" 5 horn blow. They missed but I think no one was in the mood to finish their mimosas and finger sandwiches.

 

 

the ship is clearly leeward boat.

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During this year's Mobile Bay Dauphin Island Race, this Beneteau got on the radio and began screaming that "He had rights!!". He then received the "I just ran over you and killed your dumb ass" 5 horn blow. They missed but I think no one was in the mood to finish their mimosas and finger sandwiches.

 

 

the ship is clearly leeward boat.

 

And starboard and tonnage and commercial and ....

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That Bendy owner is a moron.

 

We race in waters adjacent to the busiest shipping lanes in the world (Singapore Strait and Malacca Strait) and those fackers ALWAYS have ROW.

 

Get real...

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Rules are rules, but you cannot argue the law of greater mass. (well you can, but you will generally lose)

 

People pull out in front of VW's and Cooper Mini's without thinking twice, but think usually DO twice about pulling out in front of a Semi.

 

I had a friend that used to drive a concrete mixer. He used to say that if the average joe had any idea how unstable those things are when they are fully loaded they would never ever get in front of one.

 

The Beneteau driver sounds like a clear example of why there needs to be a little more Chlorine in the gene pool.

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are you a noobie to rules on the water? big boats win

 

 

God I'm fucking tired of reading this..

 

 

Big boats do NOT always win. How about we ALL (sailors, commercial pilots, and powerboaters) actually learn the fucking rules and follow them???????

 

Bigger doesn't mean you have rights. Tonnage doesn't mean you have rights. Sails don't mean you have rights.

 

The RULES are what give you rights. And those rights should be used with COMMON FUCKING SENSE to keep you from being dead.

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Big boats do NOT always win. How about we ALL (sailors, commercial pilots, and powerboaters) actually learn the fucking rules and follow them???????

 

Bigger doesn't mean you have rights. Tonnage doesn't mean you have rights. Sails don't mean you have rights.

 

The RULES are what give you rights. And those rights should be used with COMMON FUCKING SENSE to keep you from being dead.

+1

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Besides the obvious...

 

Our race SI's usually have a statement concerning our ship channel - "The ship channel is out of bounds, thou shalt not go there."

When our race course crosses the ship channel into the other bay, the SI's state (something to the effect) - "Boats will not interfere with commercial traffic in the ship channel. If any boat receives horn signals from ships, that boat is immediatly disqualified with no redress, that boat is also not permitted to enter any future races."

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Our local raicng SIs all have verbage about staying out of the way of commercial shipping. This year in a weeknight beercan a J100 played chicken with a car carrier, got the 5 horn blast TWICE.

 

Glad to see the RC DSQed them and also sent a stern warning.

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Of course this whole topic came to a head years ago when Lowell North racing on SF Bay cut it close under the bow of a freighter. Pilot or Freighter captain was pissed, the fact that Lowell was driving helped make it a big deal.

 

And yes, even Lowell can be wrong.

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The bendy toy owner was a tool. Nuff said

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Our local raicng SIs all have verbage about staying out of the way of commercial shipping. This year in a weeknight beercan a J100 played chicken with a car carrier, got the 5 horn blast TWICE.

 

Glad to see the RC DSQed them and also sent a stern warning.

 

You guys ever read the COLREGS?

 

Basically in this case, the big shipping vessel is restricted by draft, one that by the nature of the depth in a channel must stay within a confined area, and also has limited maneuverability. If you see one of these coming, good idea to stay out of the way; they are bigger, usually faster and take a long time to turn, and can kill you.

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Big boats do NOT always win. How about we ALL (sailors, commercial pilots, and powerboaters) actually learn the fucking rules and follow them???????

 

Bigger doesn't mean you have rights. Tonnage doesn't mean you have rights. Sails don't mean you have rights.

 

The RULES are what give you rights. And those rights should be used with COMMON FUCKING SENSE to keep you from being dead.

+1

+2

"COLREGS" Rule 10.j:

A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power driven vessel following a traffic lane.

 

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stfu newb

"Yeaaaaahhhh!!! I'm not a newbie!!!! I sit in my mom's basement with my pants around my ankles wanting for a new Mr. Clean posting!!!!"

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stfu newb

"Yeaaaaahhhh!!! I'm not a newbie!!!! I sit in my mom's basement with my pants around my ankles wanting for a new Mr. Clean posting!!!!"

 

Trolls in regards to sailing, seriously?

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Rules are rules, but you cannot argue the law of greater mass. (well you can, but you will generally lose)

 

People pull out in front of VW's and Cooper Mini's without thinking twice, but think usually DO twice about pulling out in front of a Semi.

 

I had a friend that used to drive a concrete mixer. He used to say that if the average joe had any idea how unstable those things are when they are fully loaded they would never ever get in front of one.

 

The Beneteau driver sounds like a clear example of why there needs to be a little more Chlorine in the gene pool.

 

Huh?!

 

How about: a vessel severely limited in its ability to maneuver has ROW over a vessel/boat/yacht that is not.

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You guys ever read the COLREGS?

 

Basically in this case, the big shipping vessel is restricted by draft, one that by the nature of the depth in a channel must stay within a confined area, and also has limited maneuverability. If you see one of these coming, good idea to stay out of the way; they are bigger, usually faster and take a long time to turn, and can kill you.

 

If you're going to call people out on the COLREGS at least be right. "Restricted by draft" does not exist in the inland waters of the US, which is where this race is run.

 

Sailboat is definitely still an idiot though.

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Do you feel lucky? Punk?

 

 

All aside, the bendy appears to have already crossed the tanker's centerline. He may be alive but, he is still dumb.

 

 

 

 

 

Sail safe!

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Rules are rules, but you cannot argue the law of greater mass. (well you can, but you will generally lose)

 

People pull out in front of VW's and Cooper Mini's without thinking twice, but think usually DO twice about pulling out in front of a Semi.

 

I had a friend that used to drive a concrete mixer. He used to say that if the average joe had any idea how unstable those things are when they are fully loaded they would never ever get in front of one.

 

The Beneteau driver sounds like a clear example of why there needs to be a little more Chlorine in the gene pool.

 

Huh?!

 

How about: a vessel severely limited in its ability to maneuver has ROW over a vessel/boat/yacht that is not.

 

 

What he said, has anyone heard of the area called a vessel's "committed zone"?

 

Holiday shoppign for Mr. Benny....check,

 

714PH4X5FRL._SS500_.gif

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You guys ever read the COLREGS?

 

Basically in this case, the big shipping vessel is restricted by draft, one that by the nature of the depth in a channel must stay within a confined area, and also has limited maneuverability. If you see one of these coming, good idea to stay out of the way; they are bigger, usually faster and take a long time to turn, and can kill you.

 

If you're going to call people out on the COLREGS at least be right. "Restricted by draft" does not exist in the inland waters of the US, which is where this race is run.

 

Sailboat is definitely still an idiot though.

 

I believe the terms are "Constrained by draft"CBD and "Restricted in her ability to maneuver" RAM.

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On Mobile Bay, restricted draft DOES exist as the bay is very shallow. Outside of the channel it is 10-12 feet deep if that. The ship channel is 45 ft, to right above McDuffie Island. Once you get to the tunnel, I think it goes to 35. If you get out of the ship channel, you are aground. The pilot and Captain were not happy campers. The Coast Guard were not happy campers and lectured the RC for at least 20 minutes.

On the first page of the DI Race program in big black letters it states YOU WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH SHIP TRAFFIC. He was chunked from the race. He's just lucky the Pilot didn't find him on the island later.

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...this Beneteau...

post-7006-1253061395.jpg

 

That's a Beneteau???

 

wot's it rate?

 

BTW, the sailboat crossing her bow is on port, so the Ashley Sea is on starboard! Asshat had NO RIGHTS.

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Besides the obvious...

 

Our race SI's usually have a statement concerning our ship channel - "The ship channel is out of bounds, thou shalt not go there."

 

what century are your SI's? haha

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on average i've gota say that this thread is a whole lot more intelligent than the "Solo yacht girl collides with bulk carrier" thread. most of the comments there make me want to throw my hands in the air and scream...

 

my motto is keep a bloody good look-out (including behind you - funny how often people forget to look there...) and if you see a ship, stay out of the way. it's pretty simple really. bit like riding a motorcycle : assume the other guys is not looking and will kill you if he can, and you will live longer.

 

that's not to say ships don't keep a good lookout - they do (most of the time) but small boats are very hard to see even in good conditions, and there is a big limit on what the ship can do anyway

 

who cares what the rules are if you are dead ?

 

cheers,

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on average i've gota say that this thread is a whole lot more intelligent than the "Solo yacht girl collides with bulk carrier" thread. most of the comments there make me want to throw my hands in the air and scream...

 

my motto is keep a bloody good look-out (including behind you - funny how often people forget to look there...) and if you see a ship, stay out of the way. it's pretty simple really. bit like riding a motorcycle : assume the other guys is not looking and will kill you if he can, and you will live longer.

 

that's not to say ships don't keep a good lookout - they do (most of the time) but small boats are very hard to see even in good conditions, and there is a big limit on what the ship can do anyway

 

who cares what the rules are if you are dead ?

 

cheers,

 

I did a Bass Strait crossing on the ferry years ago. Chief Officer was a friend so we were invited on to the bridge as we came up Port Phillip. There was a problem with the doors (to load cars) and the C O went to attend to that. Then the Captain sent the helmsman on an errend somewhere - ship was then on autopilot. Then the phone rang & the Captain went to answer it, in the chartroom, with no windows. That left us (2 of us, not crew) on the bridge, looking at each other & wondering what was going to happen next. There were little fishing boats everywhere - none of which showed on the radar. I've never trusted since that there is a lookout as there is supposed to be.

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my motto is keep a bloody good look-out (including behind you - funny how often people forget to look there...) and if you see a ship, stay out of the way. it's pretty simple really. bit like riding a motorcycle : assume the other guys is not looking and will kill you if he can, and you will live longer.

+1

 

You're potentially going to get plowed under and leave the bereaved with a hefty fine to pay, for them it's a scratch they may not bother to buff out

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I know that guy. He's a bicycle riding freak in tight pants that slaps cars when they come near him and yells obscenities. Its the tight pants that squishes their brains.

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Our local raicng SIs all have verbage about staying out of the way of commercial shipping. This year in a weeknight beercan a J100 played chicken with a car carrier, got the 5 horn blast TWICE.

 

Glad to see the RC DSQed them and also sent a stern warning.

 

You guys ever read the COLREGS?

 

Basically in this case, the big shipping vessel is restricted by draft, one that by the nature of the depth in a channel must stay within a confined area, and also has limited maneuverability. If you see one of these coming, good idea to stay out of the way; they are bigger, usually faster and take a long time to turn, and can kill you.

 

Wasn't us, you ever read posts before replying?

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You guys ever read the COLREGS?

 

Basically in this case, the big shipping vessel is restricted by draft, one that by the nature of the depth in a channel must stay within a confined area, and also has limited maneuverability. If you see one of these coming, good idea to stay out of the way; they are bigger, usually faster and take a long time to turn, and can kill you.

 

If you're going to call people out on the COLREGS at least be right. "Restricted by draft" does not exist in the inland waters of the US, which is where this race is run.

 

Sailboat is definitely still an idiot though.

 

 

Ohferchrissakes, I checked out the course and it runs through a shipping channel.

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On Mobile Bay, restricted draft DOES exist as the bay is very shallow. Outside of the channel it is 10-12 feet deep if that. The ship channel is 45 ft, to right above McDuffie Island. Once you get to the tunnel, I think it goes to 35. If you get out of the ship channel, you are aground. The pilot and Captain were not happy campers. The Coast Guard were not happy campers and lectured the RC for at least 20 minutes.

On the first page of the DI Race program in big black letters it states YOU WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH SHIP TRAFFIC. He was chunked from the race. He's just lucky the Pilot didn't find him on the island later.

 

 

You said it better (before I weighed in with my snarky rebutall). One word: COLREGS!

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Our local raicng SIs all have verbage about staying out of the way of commercial shipping. This year in a weeknight beercan a J100 played chicken with a car carrier, got the 5 horn blast TWICE.

 

Glad to see the RC DSQed them and also sent a stern warning.

 

You guys ever read the COLREGS?

 

Basically in this case, the big shipping vessel is restricted by draft, one that by the nature of the depth in a channel must stay within a confined area, and also has limited maneuverability. If you see one of these coming, good idea to stay out of the way; they are bigger, usually faster and take a long time to turn, and can kill you.

 

Wasn't us, you ever read posts before replying?

 

My apologies for including your quote; My comment was directed at the thread, overall, not the poster.

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The course crosses it, it doesn't run up it. Pretty much anywhere you sail there is going to be a ship channel at some point that you have to cross.

The guy was a moron who was arguing with the ship saying THEY had to give way to him. The ship sounded collision horns and almost went aground trying to avoid the idiot.

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Y'all've seen this one, right?

 

 

And this idiot was *motoring*. Could've turned away--instead of into--the ship. Does anybody know the story behind this one?

 

If you're in the little boat, stay the hell away from the big boat. Simple. No race, no rights are worth getting squashed for.

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In open ocean I actually have never had a big ship complain about giving me rights when we worked out a crossing on VHF. If they want to be dicks, they just don't answer ;)

My theory for open ocean is as follows:

1. It is just like a pedestrian in a crosswalk looking at a dumptruck.

2. You legally and morally have rights in the crosswalk.

3. If the truck hits you, you are dead and the truck has not even a scratch.

4. It takes trucks a long time to stop.

5. Therefore, make sure that truck isn't going to keep going before you step out and don't present the driver with an impossible physics problem where his choice is to hit you or wreck the truck.

 

In confined areas - STAY OUT OF THE WAY. I have seen more fucktards lately sitting in the main span of the Bay Bridge either fishing or ghosting along under sail at one knot forcing the ships and tugs to hug the side of the channel and barely miss the bridge. We actually had one boat awhile ago force a tanker to turn towards Sandy Point and get stuck there. The boat got scraped up by the ship and the idiot crew jumped overboard swam all the way to Kent Island :o

Their insurance got billed for the tow off the sandbar and the scuba diver bottom inspection too!

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are you a noobie to rules on the water? big boats win

 

 

God I'm fucking tired of reading this..

 

 

Big boats do NOT always win. How about we ALL (sailors, commercial pilots, and powerboaters) actually learn the fucking rules and follow them???????

 

Bigger doesn't mean you have rights. Tonnage doesn't mean you have rights. Sails don't mean you have rights.

 

The RULES are what give you rights. And those rights should be used with COMMON FUCKING SENSE to keep you from being dead.

if I have a cannon mounted on my bow, do I have rights?

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open ocean off the canary islands in the dark, force 7 wx, i was on watch on the bridge (600fter) we gave rights to a sailboat under sail, dead ahead on our same course - this is the only time a commercial vsl should move for us

 

In open ocean I actually have never had a big ship complain about giving me rights when we worked out a crossing on VHF. If they want to be dicks, they just don't answer ;)

My theory for open ocean is as follows:

1. It is just like a pedestrian in a crosswalk looking at a dumptruck.

2. You legally and morally have rights in the crosswalk.

3. If the truck hits you, you are dead and the truck has not even a scratch.

4. It takes trucks a long time to stop.

5. Therefore, make sure that truck isn't going to keep going before you step out and don't present the driver with an impossible physics problem where his choice is to hit you or wreck the truck.

 

In confined areas - STAY OUT OF THE WAY. I have seen more fucktards lately sitting in the main span of the Bay Bridge either fishing or ghosting along under sail at one knot forcing the ships and tugs to hug the side of the channel and barely miss the bridge. We actually had one boat awhile ago force a tanker to turn towards Sandy Point and get stuck there. The boat got scraped up by the ship and the idiot crew jumped overboard swam all the way to Kent Island :o

Their insurance got billed for the tow off the sandbar and the scuba diver bottom inspection too!

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As the COLREGS point out :D

 

open ocean off the canary islands in the dark, force 7 wx, i was on watch on the bridge (600fter) we gave rights to a sailboat under sail, dead ahead on our same course - this is the only time a commercial vsl should move for us

 

In open ocean I actually have never had a big ship complain about giving me rights when we worked out a crossing on VHF. If they want to be dicks, they just don't answer ;)

My theory for open ocean is as follows:

1. It is just like a pedestrian in a crosswalk looking at a dumptruck.

2. You legally and morally have rights in the crosswalk.

3. If the truck hits you, you are dead and the truck has not even a scratch.

4. It takes trucks a long time to stop.

5. Therefore, make sure that truck isn't going to keep going before you step out and don't present the driver with an impossible physics problem where his choice is to hit you or wreck the truck.

 

In confined areas - STAY OUT OF THE WAY. I have seen more fucktards lately sitting in the main span of the Bay Bridge either fishing or ghosting along under sail at one knot forcing the ships and tugs to hug the side of the channel and barely miss the bridge. We actually had one boat awhile ago force a tanker to turn towards Sandy Point and get stuck there. The boat got scraped up by the ship and the idiot crew jumped overboard swam all the way to Kent Island :o

Their insurance got billed for the tow off the sandbar and the scuba diver bottom inspection too!

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Rules are rules, but you cannot argue the law of greater mass. (well you can, but you will generally lose)

 

People pull out in front of VW's and Cooper Mini's without thinking twice, but think usually DO twice about pulling out in front of a Semi.

 

I had a friend that used to drive a concrete mixer. He used to say that if the average joe had any idea how unstable those things are when they are fully loaded they would never ever get in front of one.

 

The Beneteau driver sounds like a clear example of why there needs to be a little more Chlorine in the gene pool.

 

Huh?!

 

How about: a vessel severely limited in its ability to maneuver has ROW over a vessel/boat/yacht that is not.

 

Seems to me that we do not know enough to know if any of the rules cited here apply. Was the vessel in a traffic scheme? Was it restricted in its ability to maneuver, (if so it was not displaying proper signals), or was it constrained by draft? Indeed, given that we do not know where the crossing occurred, we do not even know if COLREGS applied. None of this information is set out in the initial post, or in the picture. So while the rules you cite are interesting, you do not know if they applies.

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Rules are rules, but you cannot argue the law of greater mass. (well you can, but you will generally lose)

 

People pull out in front of VW's and Cooper Mini's without thinking twice, but think usually DO twice about pulling out in front of a Semi.

 

I had a friend that used to drive a concrete mixer. He used to say that if the average joe had any idea how unstable those things are when they are fully loaded they would never ever get in front of one.

 

The Beneteau driver sounds like a clear example of why there needs to be a little more Chlorine in the gene pool.

 

Huh?!

 

How about: a vessel severely limited in its ability to maneuver has ROW over a vessel/boat/yacht that is not.

 

Seems to me that we do not know enough to know if any of the rules cited here apply. Was the vessel in a traffic scheme? Was it restricted in its ability to maneuver, (if so it was not displaying proper signals), or was it constrained by draft? Indeed, given that we do not know where the crossing occurred, we do not even know if COLREGS applied. None of this information is set out in the initial post, or in the picture. So while the rules you cite are interesting, you do not know if they applies.

 

racecourse.gif

Maybe not, but I'd guess that both the big fella and Johnny-GotRocks were in the shipping channel...

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Indeed, given that we do not know where the crossing occurred, we do not even know if COLREGS applied. None of this information is set out in the initial post, or in the picture. So while the rules you cite are interesting, you do not know if they applies.

 

Didn't someone say it was in Mobile Bay? The COLREGS line runs right across the mouth of the bay, so they probably didn't apply.

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Hi. I am a troll and want to see how many damn fools will respond to a totally dumbass post. Here goes

 

 

 

During this year's Mobile Bay Dauphin Island Race, this Beneteau got on the radio and began screaming that "He had rights!!". He then received the "I just ran over you and killed your dumb ass" 5 horn blow. They missed but I think no one was in the mood to finish their mimosas and finger sandwiches.

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Rules are rules, but you cannot argue the law of greater mass. (well you can, but you will generally lose)

 

People pull out in front of VW's and Cooper Mini's without thinking twice, but think usually DO twice about pulling out in front of a Semi.

 

I had a friend that used to drive a concrete mixer. He used to say that if the average joe had any idea how unstable those things are when they are fully loaded they would never ever get in front of one.

 

The Beneteau driver sounds like a clear example of why there needs to be a little more Chlorine in the gene pool.

 

Huh?!

 

How about: a vessel severely limited in its ability to maneuver has ROW over a vessel/boat/yacht that is not.

 

Seems to me that we do not know enough to know if any of the rules cited here apply. Was the vessel in a traffic scheme? Was it restricted in its ability to maneuver, (if so it was not displaying proper signals), or was it constrained by draft? Indeed, given that we do not know where the crossing occurred, we do not even know if COLREGS applied. None of this information is set out in the initial post, or in the picture. So while the rules you cite are interesting, you do not know if they applies.

 

racecourse.gif

Maybe not, but I'd guess that both the big fella and Johnny-GotRocks were in the shipping channel...

 

 

Yep. Just south of Middle Bay Light. Post#33 (Pippi) lays it out square:

 

"On Mobile Bay, restricted draft DOES exist as the bay is very shallow. Outside of the channel it is 10-12 feet deep if that. The ship channel is 45 ft, to right above McDuffie Island. Once you get to the tunnel, I think it goes to 35. If you get out of the ship channel, you are aground. The pilot and Captain were not happy campers. The Coast Guard were not happy campers and lectured the RC for at least 20 minutes.

On the first page of the DI Race program in big black letters it states YOU WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH SHIP TRAFFIC. He was chunked from the race. He's just lucky the Pilot didn't find him on the island later."

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Didn't someone say it was in Mobile Bay? The COLREGS line runs right across the mouth of the bay, so they probably didn't apply.

 

Please, enlighten me again, when is it that COLREGS do not apply between a commercial vessel and a racer?

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[COLREGS asshole]

Yes Mobile bay is shallow, yes the tanker could not go out of the channel without running aground.

 

BUT

 

I point you to Rule 3 General Definitions

 

3h INTERNATIONAL rules "The term "vessel constrained by her draft" means a power driven vessel which, because of her draft in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water is severely restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following"

 

Note in the link that 3h is (int) and following 3h the definitions go 3 (i/h) or if you happen to own a hard copy look at rule 3 in INLAND rules, directly across from the quoted 3h, a big blank spot.

 

We have established that the race took place entirely on the INLAND waters of the US, where there is no vessel defined as a "vessel constrained by her draft."

 

INLAND 9b and 9d apply.

[/COLREGS asshole]

 

In COLREGS, like the RRS, there are "common knowledge" things that do not actually exist. In the case of "constrained by draft" you're not wrong, but you're incorrect.

 

The Beneteau is still epically stupid.

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Besides the obvious...

 

Our race SI's usually have a statement concerning our ship channel - "The ship channel is out of bounds, thou shalt not go there."

 

what century are your SI's? haha

Actually I think they're tthe SI's from the ASA ( Amish Sailing Assoc)

 

The SI's go on:

Thou shalt not go there lest ye be smitten causing afterwards much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Thou shalt not causeth the horn to be blown more than twice, five is right out . Thou shalt not sail phrf lest ye be shunned which shunning shalt also be visited upon all those who sail J 105's.

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Didn't someone say it was in Mobile Bay? The COLREGS line runs right across the mouth of the bay, so they probably didn't apply.

 

Please, enlighten me again, when is it that COLREGS do not apply between a commercial vessel and a racer?

 

When in inland waters.

 

[Title 33, Volume 1, Parts 1 to 124]

[Revised as of July 1, 1999]

From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access

[CITE: 33CFR80.01]

[Page 187][/color][/size][/font] [font=Arial Helvetica][size=3][color=#000040] [/color][/size][/font]

 

[font=Arial Helvetica][size=3][color=#000040] TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS[/color][/size][/font] [font=Arial Helvetica][size=3][color=#000040] CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION[/color][/size][/font]

 

[font=Arial Helvetica][size=3][color=#000040] PART 80--COLREGS DEMARCATION LINES--Table of Contents[/color][/size][/font]

 

[font=Arial Helvetica][size=3][color=#000040] [b]Sec. 80.01[/b] General basis and purpose of demarcation lines.[/color][/size][/font]

 

[font=Arial Helvetica][size=3][color=#000040] [b] (a)[/b] The regulations in this part establish the lines of demarcation delineating those waters upon which mariners shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 (72 COLREGS) and those water upon which mariners shall comply with the Inland Navigation Rules.

[b](B)[/b] The waters inside of the lines are Inland Rules waters. The waters outside the lines are COLREGS waters.[/color][/size][/font]

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On Mobile Bay, restricted draft DOES exist as the bay is very shallow. Outside of the channel it is 10-12 feet deep if that. The ship channel is 45 ft, to right above McDuffie Island. Once you get to the tunnel, I think it goes to 35. If you get out of the ship channel, you are aground. The pilot and Captain were not happy campers. The Coast Guard were not happy campers and lectured the RC for at least 20 minutes.

On the first page of the DI Race program in big black letters it states YOU WILL NOT INTERFERE WITH SHIP TRAFFIC. He was chunked from the race. He's just lucky the Pilot didn't find him on the island later.

 

 

On inland waters all vessels are considered constricted by draft.

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This thread is going downhill fast.

 

Navigation Rule 9, complete - with emphaisis added on rule 9 b

 

RULE 9

NARROW CHANNELS

(a ) (i) [inld] A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

(ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a power-driven vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel proceeding upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit safe passing. [inld]

 

(b ) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

(c ) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.

 

(d ) A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

 

(e )

 

(i) In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking can take place only if the vessel to be overtaken has to take action to permit safe passing, the vessel intending to overtake shall indicate her intention by sounding the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34©(i). The vessel to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34©(ii) and take steps to permit safe passing. If in doubt she may sound the signals prescribed in Rule 34(d). (i) In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking, the power-driven vessel intending to overtake another power-driven vessel shall indicate her intention by sounding the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34© and take steps to permit safe passing. The power-driven vessel being overtaken, if in agreement, shall sound the same signal and may, if specifically agreed to take steps to permit safe passing. If in doubt, she shall sound the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d).

 

(ii) This rule does not relieve the overtaking vessel of her obligation under Rule 13.

 

(f ) A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a narrow channel or fairway where other vessels may be obscured by an intervening obstruction shall navigate with particular alertness and caution and shall sound the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34(e).

 

(g ) Any vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid anchoring in a narrow channel.

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This thread is going downhill fast.

 

Navigation Rule 9, complete - with emphaisis added on rule 9 b

 

RULE 9

NARROW CHANNELS

(a ) (i) [inld] A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

(ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a power-driven vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel proceeding upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit safe passing. [inld]

 

(b ) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

(c ) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.

 

(d ) A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

 

(e )

 

(i) In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking can take place only if the vessel to be overtaken has to take action to permit safe passing, the vessel intending to overtake shall indicate her intention by sounding the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34©(i). The vessel to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34©(ii) and take steps to permit safe passing. If in doubt she may sound the signals prescribed in Rule 34(d). (i) In a narrow channel or fairway when overtaking, the power-driven vessel intending to overtake another power-driven vessel shall indicate her intention by sounding the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34© and take steps to permit safe passing. The power-driven vessel being overtaken, if in agreement, shall sound the same signal and may, if specifically agreed to take steps to permit safe passing. If in doubt, she shall sound the danger signal prescribed in Rule 34(d).

 

(ii) This rule does not relieve the overtaking vessel of her obligation under Rule 13.

 

(f ) A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a narrow channel or fairway where other vessels may be obscured by an intervening obstruction shall navigate with particular alertness and caution and shall sound the appropriate signal prescribed in Rule 34(e).

 

(g ) Any vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, avoid anchoring in a narrow channel.

 

Actually it is advancing I think. We now know that COREGS did not apply, and the Inland Rules did apply. As some have pointed out correctly, the Inland Rules do not have a rule relating to constrained by draft, and some asserted incorrectly that any large vessel is deemed to be restricted in its ability to maneuver.

 

You are correct that Inland Rule 9 governs the situation and the section you highlight is applicable, as is subpart d, which is directly in point - the Beneteau was violating subpart d, and should have passed behind the ship, she certainly could not call for the ROW.

 

The San Francisco Bay incident that was mentioned brought up the fact that at some point a small vessel disappears from view, leaving the ship to guess as to its whereabouts, and so pushing a position where you can cross, albeit closely also violates the rule, and the boat in question, although it was clear ahead, was charged by the CG and fined if I recall correctly.

 

While I agree with the big boat rule, and generally follow it, it is not a ROW rule, and does not answer the question - who has what rights, and why.

 

Going back to San Francisco we were racing off the City front when there was an incident with a race boat and a ship. The ship was fined by the CG, as it was outside the fairway, and therefore did not have the ROW.

 

So while the big boat rule is sound seamanship, I have had ships alter course on any number of occasions in crossing situations, which is always appreciated, especially when sailing downwind either wing and wing or with the chute up.

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I was kind of hoping we were done talking about Benetards for at least another year

We are not talking about Beneteau's, we are talking about COLREGS and the Inland Rules. Perhaps you were not paying attention

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Nothing different here in the Netherlands. Ships used to take a shortcut to get to Amsterdam. Instead of following the shipping lane they just sail right trough our race course. Sometimes it really cloce racing.....

 

That sure is a funky looking leach curve on that mainsail.

 

Rules give rights to sailboats? Bunk.

Stay out of the way of big ships. Having driven a few, the maneuverability of those things is horrible. Turn the rudder, count to 60 and the ship might begin to turn. Turning a circle in man overboard drills- took 16 minutes to do a 360 in a tanker I was on. Stopping? measure in miles. Wake up folks, a ship that weighs 150,000 long tons (336 million pounds for you math challenged folks) takes a lot to change speed or direction. Also, from on the bridge, even in good visibility, a sailboat can barely be seen. And for those who think ships radar shows sailboats clearly - NOPE. Radar return on a sailboat gets lost in the seaclutter most of the time.

 

This is their job/living. How would you like it if some punk kid was skateboarding up and down your job hallway telling you to get out of the way? Now imagine you are carrying a package worth many millions that is so heavy you can barely hold it at the same time. How pissed would you be?

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i really can't get over all you guys arguing about RULES

 

for $%%^ sake, think more about SEAMANSHIP and COMMONSENSE, and less about $%^& rules. you'll cause less of a nuisance to the rest of us.

 

cheers,

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I was kind of hoping we were done talking about Benetards for at least another year

We are not talking about Beneteau's, we are talking about COLREGS and the Inland Rules. Perhaps you were not paying attention

 

See post #3 and eat my fuck, Dooshbag

 

 

mh111 called it: Commonsense

use your heads

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Nothing different here in the Netherlands. Ships used to take a shortcut to get to Amsterdam. Instead of following the shipping lane they just sail right trough our race course. Sometimes it really cloce racing.....

 

That sure is a funky looking leach curve on that mainsail.

 

Rules give rights to sailboats? Bunk.

Stay out of the way of big ships. Having driven a few, the maneuverability of those things is horrible. Turn the rudder, count to 60 and the ship might begin to turn. Turning a circle in man overboard drills- took 16 minutes to do a 360 in a tanker I was on. Stopping? measure in miles. Wake up folks, a ship that weighs 150,000 long tons (336 million pounds for you math challenged folks) takes a lot to change speed or direction. Also, from on the bridge, even in good visibility, a sailboat can barely be seen. And for those who think ships radar shows sailboats clearly - NOPE. Radar return on a sailboat gets lost in the seaclutter most of the time.

 

This is their job/living. How would you like it if some punk kid was skateboarding up and down your job hallway telling you to get out of the way? Now imagine you are carrying a package worth many millions that is so heavy you can barely hold it at the same time. How pissed would you be?

 

 

Where's that +1 WORD guy when you need him?

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Fuck's sake. I promised myself I wasn't going to post again, but I keep getting dragged in by the ocean of stupidity that is SA.

 

Rules are rules. They are there for a reason. And wil people stop fucking saying "right of way". It does not fucking exist. The term you are looking for is "Stand on vessel". That implies a set of rights and responsibilities. For those of you who claim that might makes right, and that a sailing boat should try and avoid a cargo ship, even if the sailing boat is the SOV, you run a serious risk of getting into a "two fat men in a doorway" situation, where both of you are trying to get out of the way of the other. You are in fact obligated by the rules to hold your course and speed to make it easier for the other vessel to avoid you until it is obvious that they are not going to do so - if you do not do so, you could potentially be liable for any collision.

 

P.S. As an aside, unless you are in a special area (e.g. the solent), or the vessel is flying the appropriate signals, are you expected under colregs to assume that a vessel is not CBD or restricted in ability to manoeuvre?

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Aw G.Zeus, people.

 

I was there. I even read the SIs.

http://www.dirace.com/PDF%20Files/SIs%20DI%20'08.pdf

http://www.dirace.com/PDF%20Files/racecourse.pdf

 

Read for yourselves, Rule 1.5. The above are from the year before, but it doesn't change much if at all from year to year.

 

It isn't rocket surgery, really.

 

The rules for the race CLEARLY STATE to stay the Hell out of the channel.

 

The rules for the race CLEARLY STATE the boundaries of the race course. There's a defined area where the boats were to cross the channel.

 

Bubba wasn't within the defined areas. He's lucky all he got was bitched at and thrown out the race. He could easily have been wiped off the face.

 

Never mind the concepts of, as has been said, commonsense and good seamanship.

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I was kind of hoping we were done talking about Benetards for at least another year

We are not talking about Beneteau's, we are talking about COLREGS and the Inland Rules. Perhaps you were not paying attention

 

See post #3 and eat my fuck, Dooshbag

 

 

mh111 called it: Commonsense

use your heads

 

Very elegantly stated, but then profanity is the best demonstration of a small mind. Spelling seems also to not be your forte.

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Fuck's sake. I promised myself I wasn't going to post again, but I keep getting dragged in by the ocean of stupidity that is SA.

 

Rules are rules. They are there for a reason. And wil people stop fucking saying "right of way". It does not fucking exist. The term you are looking for is "Stand on vessel". That implies a set of rights and responsibilities. For those of you who claim that might makes right, and that a sailing boat should try and avoid a cargo ship, even if the sailing boat is the SOV, you run a serious risk of getting into a "two fat men in a doorway" situation, where both of you are trying to get out of the way of the other. You are in fact obligated by the rules to hold your course and speed to make it easier for the other vessel to avoid you until it is obvious that they are not going to do so - if you do not do so, you could potentially be liable for any collision.

 

P.S. As an aside, unless you are in a special area (e.g. the solent), or the vessel is flying the appropriate signals, are you expected under colregs to assume that a vessel is not CBD or restricted in ability to manoeuvre?

 

A vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver is required to flay the appropriate signals/lights, otherwise you are to presume it is not. Otherwise what would be the need for the signals/lights You are correct that the correct terminology is SOV/GWV, and that neither boat has the ROW.

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I was kind of hoping we were done talking about Benetards for at least another year

We are not talking about Beneteau's, we are talking about COLREGS and the Inland Rules. Perhaps you were not paying attention

 

See post #3 and eat my fuck, Dooshbag

 

 

mh111 called it: Commonsense

use your heads

 

Very elegantly stated, but then profanity is the best demonstration of a small mind. Spelling seems also to not be your forte.

 

I don't understand your big words

 

Tipyng on a fone

 

:-)

 

Hugs & kisses

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Local annual regatta this June, some ill advised individuals felt they ought to play chicken with 150,000 tonnes of Arabian crude in a handy 275m package.

 

post-20983-1253213664_thumb.jpg

 

Top down reprimand from port authority enjoyed by all.

 

post-20983-1253213679_thumb.jpg

 

On the other side of the argument, they did schedule the movement for slap bang in the middle of the racing, in full knowledge it was going to happen.

 

post-20983-1253213689_thumb.jpg

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A vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver is required to flay the appropriate signals/lights, otherwise you are to presume it is not.

 

I would always presume that a 250,000 tonne vessel that is not flaying the appropriate signals/lights was not restricted in its ability to maneuver... NOT!

 

WTF do you think you're saying? "Well judge, he wasn't flaying the appropriate signals, therefore I assumed he could avoid me... I did have the right of way after all..."

 

Reminds me of a story my dad used to tell me when teaching me basic seamanship:

 

This is the story of Jasper Jay

who refused to yield his Right Of Way

He knew he was right as he went along

But he's just as dead as if he were wrong

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Restricted means something unusual, like the rudder fell off :o

Just because your big ship takes forever to turn even with everything working doesn't count.

That said, where I mostly sail it is totally fakin obvious the ships can't avoid you, special flags/lights or not. They are in a narrow channel and they WILL run aground if the turn to get around you. I guess they don't fly the shapes because the SHIP isn't restricted, the channel is RESTRICTIVE.

 

 

 

A vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver is required to flay the appropriate signals/lights, otherwise you are to presume it is not.

 

I would always presume that a 250,000 tonne vessel that is not flaying the appropriate signals/lights was not restricted in its ability to maneuver... NOT!

 

WTF do you think you're saying? "Well judge, he wasn't flaying the appropriate signals, therefore I assumed he could avoid me... I did have the right of way after all..."

 

Reminds me of a story my dad used to tell me when teaching me basic seamanship:

 

This is the story of Jasper Jay

who refused to yield his Right Of Way

He knew he was right as he went along

But he's just as dead as if he were wrong

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Nothing different here in the Netherlands. Ships used to take a shortcut to get to Amsterdam. Instead of following the shipping lane they just sail right trough our race course. Sometimes it really cloce racing.....

 

That sure is a funky looking leach curve on that mainsail.

 

Rules give rights to sailboats? Bunk.

Stay out of the way of big ships. Having driven a few, the maneuverability of those things is horrible. Turn the rudder, count to 60 and the ship might begin to turn. Turning a circle in man overboard drills- took 16 minutes to do a 360 in a tanker I was on. Stopping? measure in miles. Wake up folks, a ship that weighs 150,000 long tons (336 million pounds for you math challenged folks) takes a lot to change speed or direction. Also, from on the bridge, even in good visibility, a sailboat can barely be seen. And for those who think ships radar shows sailboats clearly - NOPE. Radar return on a sailboat gets lost in the seaclutter most of the time.

 

This is their job/living. How would you like it if some punk kid was skateboarding up and down your job hallway telling you to get out of the way? Now imagine you are carrying a package worth many millions that is so heavy you can barely hold it at the same time. How pissed would you be?

 

 

Hi Waterboy,

 

don't know where you're talking about. You didn't read my message! Big ships should stay in the shipping lane instead of taking a shortcut right trough a race course. And yes, the big ships have right of way, but it's still very frustrating when they cross the race course to take a short cut and win 1 minute of their sailing time to get to Amsterdam!

 

cheers

valentijn

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A vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver is required to flay the appropriate signals/lights, otherwise you are to presume it is not.

 

I would always presume that a 250,000 tonne vessel that is not flaying the appropriate signals/lights was not restricted in its ability to maneuver... NOT!

 

WTF do you think you're saying? "Well judge, he wasn't flaying the appropriate signals, therefore I assumed he could avoid me... I did have the right of way after all..."

 

Reminds me of a story my dad used to tell me when teaching me basic seamanship:

 

This is the story of Jasper Jay

who refused to yield his Right Of Way

He knew he was right as he went along

But he's just as dead as if he were wrong

 

Sorry, but this is a rules discussion, I have said in other posts that seamanship demands that you avoid these guys. I do everything I can to pass behind them, not in front. But the rules are clear if your are restricted in your ability to maneuver you need to display the appropriate shapes/lights, otherwise anyone else will assume you are not. Including other big ships. There is no shape or light combination for Constrained by draft in the Inland rules, the rule, as others have pointed out does not exist in the Inland Rules. The fact that you are big does not make you restricted in ability to maneuver as someone else has said. However if their rudder fell off they probably fall under the not under command rule. But that is probably nit picking, but it would make then the SOV even when approaching a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver.

 

However, restricted is not the applicable rule in most of these cases, including this one. The ship is in a fairway/channel and the rules make it the SOV and the sailboat the GWV, as set out in an earlier post.

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I was kind of hoping we were done talking about Benetards for at least another year

We are not talking about Beneteau's, we are talking about COLREGS and the Inland Rules. Perhaps you were not paying attention

 

See post #3 and eat my fuck, Dooshbag

 

 

mh111 called it: Commonsense

use your heads

 

Very elegantly stated, but then profanity is the best demonstration of a small mind. Spelling seems also to not be your forte.

 

I don't understand your big words

 

Tipyng on a fone

 

:-)

 

Hugs & kisses

 

XOXO as well.

 

Sorry that you took umbrage at my reply to your earlier post. #3 does not have anything to do with, nor does this thread, Beneteau's, unless it is your assertion that all Beneteau owners by definition do not know the rules of the road, COLREGS or Inland, and that skippers of all other boats do, such the the only issue being discussed, the rules, applies only to owners of Beneteau's and not other boats. I doubt that you believe that.

 

The discussion has to do with the skipper of a sail boat, whatever the make, that did not know the right of way rules, and for that matter the provisions of the NOR and SI.

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This was on Sydney Harbour a few years back.

 

Harbour Pilot to Captain "Do I go to starboard and end up on the Sow & Pigs reef or do I go to port and end up on Obelisk beach?"

Captain to Harbour Pilot "Naaah . . . sink the mongrel"

 

I think their bowman has now taken up golf.

 

post-26926-1253239847_thumb.jpg

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Restricted means something unusual, like the rudder fell off :o

 

"Restricted" in it's ability to manouver. Means a vessel towing something. A minesweeper - minesweeping. Maybe a dredge - under way while dredging. etc

 

"Constrained" by it's draft - cannot move out of the channel it is in because of shallow water.

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This was on Sydney Harbour a few years back.

 

Harbour Pilot to Captain "Do I go to starboard and end up on the Sow & Pigs reef or do I go to port and end up on Obelisk beach?"

Captain to Harbour Pilot "Naaah . . . sink the mongrel"

 

I think their bowman has now taken up golf.

 

post-26926-1253239847_thumb.jpg

 

I used to race Tornados out of Woollahra Sailing Club... years back. One of the Club's Stars was racing on the Harbour and a Manly Ferry came up on them and claimed his rights. The miserable prick on the ferry took no regard of the fact that the Star was becalmed ... and when he finally decided that the Star wasn't going to move (duhh), he threw the ferry into reverse... which of course engaged the prop at the bow... just as he ran them down. One of the crew was never found.

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I love you guys with your Rules.

 

"According to Rule 16.3-A we should behave like idiots because that's what the rule states"

 

Fer Chissakes, stay the fark out of the big guys when you can. They're working and even if you are too, they have more souls and $ worth of cargo than you.

 

Port to port, take their sterns, get the hell out of the way when being overtaken/converged apon.

 

Is it that bloody hard?

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Nothing different here in the Netherlands. Ships used to take a shortcut to get to Amsterdam. Instead of following the shipping lane they just sail right trough our race course. Sometimes it really cloce racing.....

 

That sure is a funky looking leach curve on that mainsail.

 

Rules give rights to sailboats? Bunk.

Stay out of the way of big ships. Having driven a few, the maneuverability of those things is horrible. Turn the rudder, count to 60 and the ship might begin to turn. Turning a circle in man overboard drills- took 16 minutes to do a 360 in a tanker I was on. Stopping? measure in miles. Wake up folks, a ship that weighs 150,000 long tons (336 million pounds for you math challenged folks) takes a lot to change speed or direction. Also, from on the bridge, even in good visibility, a sailboat can barely be seen. And for those who think ships radar shows sailboats clearly - NOPE. Radar return on a sailboat gets lost in the seaclutter most of the time.

 

This is their job/living. How would you like it if some punk kid was skateboarding up and down your job hallway telling you to get out of the way? Now imagine you are carrying a package worth many millions that is so heavy you can barely hold it at the same time. How pissed would you be?

 

 

Hi Waterboy,

 

don't know where you're talking about. You didn't read my message! Big ships should stay in the shipping lane instead of taking a shortcut right trough a race course. And yes, the big ships have right of way, but it's still very frustrating when they cross the race course to take a short cut and win 1 minute of their sailing time to get to Amsterdam!

 

cheers

valentijn

 

Howdy,

Yes I read your post. My point is that you/we race sailboats to PLAY and have fun. These guys are driving ships with cargo because it is their living. They are NOT required to stay in a specified channel, if they can cut time off their route it saves money. Shipping companies look at the routes of their captains/crews, time in transit, etc. as a way to max their profit. If a captain routinely takes longer to transit a route than the other captains in the company, he may soon be looking for another job. So while you are playing in your sailboat, these guys are trying to keep their job and earn a living for themselves and their families.

 

Yes it's frustrating when a crossing ship costs a few places in the race. But think about the respective consequences for you, and the the consequences for the ship and its crew. Not to mention risk of bodily harm for many. I don't know your sailing background, and am not picking at you. But I think many sailors are totally unaware of how difficult it is to handle a ship the size of the Empire State Bldg. in restricted waters, and how much risk and pressure the ship crew is under to safely perform and make a profit for the company. Standing on the bridge of a ship and transiting a crowded waterway with small boats criss-crossing all over the place while trying to cut route time and not kill anybody is just a little challenging to say the least.

 

Tack on top of that basic seamanship, common sense, respect for others, etc.

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How about this - the NOR, SI's and the RC says it's not allowed. If you impede the big boats you get chunked. PERIOD.

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