Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

palaimon

Alinghi 5 at the team base in RAK

Recommended Posts

. . . The way most of the mainstream media plays this seems to be along the lines of a spat between 2 billionaires, rather than about sailing, prtobably because if it were about sailing, it would be too boring! There's nothing like a good punch up between the super rich!

 

I also think that there are a whole set of losers that most on here don't seem to acre about, namely the sailors. Imagine growing up being told that the AC is the pinnacle and thenm, when you are good enough and at your prime, you don't have the opportunity to go for that pinnacle.

 

Amen to that. One day this will be just another chapter in a Bob Fisher history tome. If The Fish is with us for that many decades!

 

But the crying shame is the way that the growth of America's Cup competition, and with it opportunities for young sailors, has been set back for countless years by this charade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. . . The way most of the mainstream media plays this seems to be along the lines of a spat between 2 billionaires, rather than about sailing, prtobably because if it were about sailing, it would be too boring! There's nothing like a good punch up between the super rich!

 

I also think that there are a whole set of losers that most on here don't seem to acre about, namely the sailors. Imagine growing up being told that the AC is the pinnacle and thenm, when you are good enough and at your prime, you don't have the opportunity to go for that pinnacle.

 

Amen to that. One day this will be just another chapter in a Bob Fisher history tome. If The Fish is with us for that many decades!

 

But the crying shame is the way that the growth of America's Cup competition, and with it opportunities for young sailors, has been set back for countless years by this charade.

 

I honestly don't think the younger sailors could care less about this situation. They will do what they are going to do regardless of the current debacle, as they have many years ahead of them in their respective sailing careers, and few aspire to win the AC given all the other competitive challenges.

 

At some point they may look back on the mess we're currently in, but I honestly don't think it will stifle the efforts or ambition of the young today. They have many other goals to achieve irrespective of the America's Cup.

 

If anything, this will stifle the ambitions of the potential challengers, not the youth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, what is wrong with that location for a multihull race?

Larry gave an emphatic No to that location. That is what is wrong.

 

Why the hell aren't we looking at somewhere tame and beautiful, non controversial and nice, like off Rio, or off Cape Town during the Wold Cup there?

 

 

EB is a serious asshole. Or did you miss one of those hundreds of ugly Alinghi memos? EB is daring LE into that situation.

 

The real power is to say yes !!! :lol: and stop dreaming about issues that aren't under your control ! even if Bor and it's legal army creates issues that the Boronanist troops are willing to swallow...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, what is wrong with that location for a multihull race?

Larry gave an emphatic No to that location. That is what is wrong.

 

Why the hell aren't we looking at somewhere tame and beautiful, non controversial and nice, like off Rio, or off Cape Town during the Wold Cup there?

 

 

EB is a serious asshole. Or did you miss one of those hundreds of ugly Alinghi memos? EB is daring LE into that situation.

 

The real power is to say yes !!! :lol: and stop dreaming about issues that aren't under your control ! even if Bor and it's legal army creates issues that the Boronanist troops are willing to swallow...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, the Google stuff is very old. The first 2 images in one of my older videos give a correct aerial view of Al Hamra and Al Marjan:

 

Thanks. Great images. A little typo though in your first two aerial views... should be "skyscrapercity.com", not "skysrapercity.com".

 

post-10646-1255856351_thumb.jpgpost-10646-1255856369_thumb.jpg

 

When I did a site search on "site:www.skyscrapercity.com rak", the first thing I noticed was this post from 2005:

 

Pregnant woman lashed 150 times by RAK authorities

 

Staff Report

 

Ras Al Khaimah: A maid was sentenced to 150 lashes yesterday for getting pregnant out of wedlock.

A Sharia Court official said the maid's UAE national sponsor filed a case with police accusing N.S.T of committing adultery and being pregnant.

 

Her case was referred to the public prosecution department and she was ordered to take a pregnancy test, which came back positive.

 

She refused to reveal the name of the child's father, despite being interrogated by the police and the public prosecutor.

 

The public prosecution department referred her to the emirate's Sharia Court.

 

She refused to identify her lover again.

 

The court sentenced her to 150 lashes, to be administered in two stages. She will then be deported.

 

Gulf News [link is defunct]

 

tough town!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, the Google stuff is very old. The first 2 images in one of my older videos give a correct aerial view of Al Hamra and Al Marjan:

 

Thanks. Great images. A little typo though in your first two aerial views... should be "skyscrapercity.com", not "skysrapercity.com".

 

post-10646-1255856351_thumb.jpgpost-10646-1255856369_thumb.jpg

 

When I did a site search on "site:www.skyscrapercity.com rak", the first thing I noticed was this post from 2005:

 

Pregnant woman lashed 150 times by RAK authorities

 

Staff Report

 

Ras Al Khaimah: A maid was sentenced to 150 lashes yesterday for getting pregnant out of wedlock.

A Sharia Court official said the maid's UAE national sponsor filed a case with police accusing N.S.T of committing adultery and being pregnant.

 

Her case was referred to the public prosecution department and she was ordered to take a pregnancy test, which came back positive.

 

She refused to reveal the name of the child's father, despite being interrogated by the police and the public prosecutor.

 

The public prosecution department referred her to the emirate's Sharia Court.

 

She refused to identify her lover again.

 

The court sentenced her to 150 lashes, to be administered in two stages. She will then be deported.

 

Gulf News [link is defunct]

 

tough town!

 

 

yes horrible, but what about the judicial error rate of 68% for the death penalty in the US (study of James S. Liebman

 

law teacher of Columbia University ) as we say here in Europe the Hospital is making fun of the ambulance

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, the Google stuff is very old. The first 2 images in one of my older videos give a correct aerial view of Al Hamra and Al Marjan:

 

Thanks. Great images. A little typo though in your first two aerial views... should be "skyscrapercity.com", not "skysrapercity.com".

 

 

When I did a site search on "site:www.skyscrapercity.com rak", the first thing I noticed was this post from 2005:

 

Pregnant woman lashed 150 times by RAK authorities

 

 

 

Sh..., that is a stupid mistake, thx.

 

One of the things I find difficult to understand in this part of the world, is that most of the times women are blamed and punished (prison) went they get pregnant without being married or even when they have been raped.

 

Although it is usually a man who is the most active in these situations (literally).

I do think it is not easy for a woman to make this happen if the man does not want to cooperate..., isn't it? And the man is not punished at all in most cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, the Google stuff is very old. The first 2 images in one of my older videos give a correct aerial view of Al Hamra and Al Marjan:

 

Thanks. Great images. A little typo though in your first two aerial views... should be "skyscrapercity.com", not "skysrapercity.com".

 

 

When I did a site search on "site:www.skyscrapercity.com rak", the first thing I noticed was this post from 2005:

 

Pregnant woman lashed 150 times by RAK authorities

 

 

 

Sh..., that is a stupid mistake, thx.

 

One of the things I find difficult to understand in this part of the world, is that most of the times women are blamed and punished (prison) went they get pregnant without being married or even when they have been raped.

 

Although it is usually a man who is the most active in these situations (literally).

I do think it is not easy for a woman to make this happen if the man does not want to cooperate..., isn't it? And the man is not punished at all in most cases.

This is not only "difficult to understand", it is completely against the human rights, against civilization and doesn't need any discussion whether it should be understood or not.

 

Same is valid for the death penalty, IMO, and, no, I won't take it to PA, because this forum here is infested with topics like that since months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, what is wrong with that location for a multihull race?

Larry gave an emphatic No to that location. That is what is wrong.

 

Why the hell aren't we looking at somewhere tame and beautiful, non controversial and nice, like off Rio, or off Cape Town during the Wold Cup there?

 

 

EB is a serious asshole. Or did you miss one of those hundreds of ugly Alinghi memos? EB is daring LE into that situation.

 

The real power is to say yes !!! :lol: and stop dreaming about issues that aren't under your control ! even if Bor and it's legal army creates issues that the Boronanist troops are willing to swallow...

 

If you think RAK is dangerous you better don't exit your 5 star resort in Rio or Cape Town

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fresh in the WSJ:

 

--

 

Uncertainty Prevails Over America's Cup

 

By CHIP CUMMINS

 

RAS AL-KHAIMAH, United Arab Emirates -- Swiss pharmaceuticals heir Ernesto Bertarelli on Saturday took his 90-foot catamaran into the Persian Gulf's flat seas, where his Alinghi team hopes to defend the America's Cup in February.

 

Whether the race will actually take place here on time -- or at all -- is still uncertain. BMW Oracle Racing, the team challenging in the two-boat match race, has gone to court seeking to disqualify Ras al-Khaimah as the venue. In a filing in New York Supreme Court, lawyers for BMW Oracle say the city state, one of seven emirates that make up the United Arab Emirates, doesn't comply with the 19th-century document that governs the cup.

 

BMW Oracle's chief, software mogul Larry Ellison, is also arguing Ras al-Khaimah, less than 100 miles from Iran, could be a security threat for an American challenger. His team, meanwhile, questions the emirate's preparedness to host the event.

 

Ras al-Khaimah officials have scrambled to convince Mr. Ellison and the world that the emirate is ready and safe. Officials say dredging and channel-widening work, required to accommodate the two super yachts, is finished.

 

A man-made island inside Ras al-Khaimah's natural harbor is already home to three massive, air-conditioned tents that house Alinghi's boat, its two masts and its sails. A glass-enclosed hospitality tent is up, and landscapers are busying laying down sod.

 

A judge is expected to hold a hearing later this month on the venue. In the meantime, Khater Massaad, advisor to the emirate's crown prince, says he's just waiting for specifications from BMW Oracle needed to finish up their base camp.

 

"The base can be operational three weeks from the day they decide to come," he said at a press conference at the Al Hamra Golf Course here, overlooking Alinghi's base.

 

In a construction blitz following the August announcement, Ras al-Khaimah has so far spent $30 million of a $50-million infrastructure-improvement budget getting the place ready, officials said.

 

The city-state, on the southeastern tip of the Persian Gulf, lacks the oil wealth of its neighbors, and development here has lagged nearby emirates Dubai and Abu Dhabi. Camels and donkeys meander along roads on the outskirts of the sand-swept coastal strip, dotted with industrial parks and half-built luxury real-estate developments.

 

The fight over the venue is the latest in a series of legal battles dating back to 2007 that have plagued the race. The two sides have squabbled over everything from when the race should be held to the specifications of the boats.

 

On Saturday, Mr. Bertarelli took his latest swipe at Mr. Ellison, calling the Oracle Corp. chief executive's safety concerns unfounded.

 

"Come on, let's get real," Mr. Bertarelli said. "Let's go sailing."

 

Alinghi said the team took the boat out on the open sea for a brief session on Friday. But Saturday's training was the official kick-off of its training program.

 

Alinghi said it chose Ras al-Khaimah, first and foremost, for its weather -- light breezes and flat seas. On Saturday, the team got just that. By midday, wind speed was just three to four knots.

 

Alinghi has been accused of choosing the light-wind Gulf as an equalizer against what many see as BMW Oracle's more powerful trimaran. Initially on Saturday, some observers were surprised how sluggish Alinghi looked in a series of tacks and sail changes in the desperately light breeze.

 

That feeling dissipated though during one late-session acceleration by the boat. For a brief run, one of the press boats alongside (very unscientifically) pegged the catamaran moving at about 10 knots, in just three knots of four knots of wind.

 

Brad Butterworth, Alinghi's skipper, said the conditions would make it likely the team will be able to be on the water six days a week from here until the match.

 

"It's exactly like what we thought it would be like," he said.

 

--

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2nlzej5.jpg

When did they lose the S foils? Are they coming back?

Awesome pic and boat!!!! Ah, boat porn at it's best :)

Here's a similar angle, from back in Genoa. Any differences?

 

2v1w6bl.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, the Google stuff is very old. The first 2 images in one of my older videos give a correct aerial view of Al Hamra and Al Marjan:

 

Thanks. Great images. A little typo though in your first two aerial views... should be "skyscrapercity.com", not "skysrapercity.com".

 

post-10646-1255856351_thumb.jpgpost-10646-1255856369_thumb.jpg

 

When I did a site search on "site:www.skyscrapercity.com rak", the first thing I noticed was this post from 2005:

 

Pregnant woman lashed 150 times by RAK authorities

 

Staff Report

 

Ras Al Khaimah: A maid was sentenced to 150 lashes yesterday for getting pregnant out of wedlock.

A Sharia Court official said the maid's UAE national sponsor filed a case with police accusing N.S.T of committing adultery and being pregnant.

 

Her case was referred to the public prosecution department and she was ordered to take a pregnancy test, which came back positive.

 

She refused to reveal the name of the child's father, despite being interrogated by the police and the public prosecutor.

 

The public prosecution department referred her to the emirate's Sharia Court.

 

She refused to identify her lover again.

 

The court sentenced her to 150 lashes, to be administered in two stages. She will then be deported.

 

Gulf News [link is defunct]

 

tough town!

 

 

Shouldn't our focus here include some concern for the woman?

Was the sentence carried out - lashing & deportation?

IF it was did the mother regain her health, did she miscarry?

Where was she deported to - I hope it was the Phillippines as one good place where she& the child would be cared for.

Why did she not name the father?

 

This may have been one very brave woman in love if she was protecting her lover.

IF she was too afraid of other consequences should she name a RAK man as the father, it would be nice to have his name & address now.

In which case having the AC come to RAK may give an opportunity to make a statement there about what W sailors think of Sharia law.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2nlzej5.jpg

Everything about Alinghi put aside, what a stunning boat that is...

 

 

It is definitely a neat boat, just the owner and management sucks.............................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't tell what if anything changed. Different head sails in these shots but the boards, the main and the mast all look the same. Looks good.

 

One curious thing is the dark object across the web just behind the front beam. It's very large, what the heck is it - a sail?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

293d1jn.jpg

The heel angle of the mast does not seem to correspond with the heel of the platform (optical illusion?)

I thing that the mast is taller as the one they where using in Genoa as well, judging by the stickering on the mast now and before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The heel angle of the mast does not seem to correspond with the heel of the platform (optical illusion?)

I thing that the mast is taller as the one they where using in Genoa as well, judging by the stickering on the mast now and before.

Really? If this is the new big one then it should be quite obvious. Hmm.. Will see if I can find a better stickering shot for comparison.

 

On this, probably a sail bag?

 

23tnkw8.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats probably the bag for the gennaker.

 

Stickering side-by-side (plz bare with me on my photo editing skilz).

Cool

 

Maybe this helps too?

 

2z9f6gz.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats probably the bag for the gennaker.

 

Stickering side-by-side (plz bare with me on my photo editing skilz).

Cool

 

Maybe this helps too?

 

2z9f6gz.jpg

 

looks like the same rig and main to me. no cuban fiber mini sail under the tramp though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why the hell aren't we looking at somewhere tame and beautiful, non controversial and nice, like off Rio

Rio gangs shoot down police chopper, 2 cops dead

 

Brazil pledges Olympic security after Rio violence

RIO DE JANEIRO — Brazilian officials are insisting security won't be a problem for the 2016 Olympics despite drug-gang violence that plunged Rio de Janeiro into a day of bloody chaos just two weeks after it was picked to host the games.

 

An hourslong firefight between rival gangs in one of the city's slums killed at least 12 people, injured six and saw a police helicopter shot down and eight buses set on fire Saturday.

 

...

 

Rio is one of the world's most dangerous cities. Although violence is mostly contained within its sprawling shantytowns, it sometimes spills into posh beach neighborhoods and periodically shuts down a highway linking the international airport to tourist destinations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, I hope they practice gybing a bit more. Or get a faster hydraulic system for the gennaker sheet (and lee shroud for that matter).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A nice shot from yesterday at VS:

 

2zg7ub7.jpg

Aha! Tacking in anger in 4 knots of wind! :lol:

Looks more like they are furling, or unfurling, the headsail?

 

Wouldn't it be cool to have an AC rule that racing is canceled if the average wind speed stays below 'N' knots for 'H' hours? N=5, Y=3?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a basic problem with hydraulics. Pick one: Maximum grunt under load at moderate or relatively slow line speeds. Or super high speed low-load line take-up. It's very very hard to get both out of the same hydraulic system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good view of just how close Grand Central is to the water when they can't lift a hull - like what happened all day Saturday. Looks to be 3' max? Maybe they should wrap a wave piercer cover around it? :)

 

Can't remember how that repaired area looked, last in Genoa. Wasn't there a half wrap visible on it?

 

309k6qg.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good view of just how close Grand Central is to the water when they can't lift a hull - like what happened all day Saturday. Looks to be 3' max? Maybe they should wrap a wave piercer cover around it? :)

 

That is a limiting "feature" of the design. In any sea at all, with that much distance between the hulls, GCS will be in and out of wave tops constantly. The drag on that bit will go up like 800 times every time it is the water. That probably won't break it, but it will for sure slow the boat down.

 

Alinghi 5 *needs* flat water to have any chance at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good view of just how close Grand Central is to the water when they can't lift a hull - like what happened all day Saturday. Looks to be 3' max? Maybe they should wrap a wave piercer cover around it? :)

 

That is a limiting "feature" of the design. In any sea at all, with that much distance between the hulls, GCS will be in and out of wave tops constantly. The drag on that bit will go up like 800 times every time it is the water. That probably won't break it, but it will for sure slow the boat down.

 

Alinghi 5 *needs* flat water to have any chance at all.

Even just the gentle swell in this shot looks like it could come close to wetting the GC

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U6Cp5x-Sbr8/StnV.../DSC_1337_1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That last picture shows that we have to add a new crew position to the AC vocabulary: engine mechanic. Or should it be "powered systems engineer"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good view of just how close Grand Central is to the water when they can't lift a hull - like what happened all day Saturday. Looks to be 3' max? Maybe they should wrap a wave piercer cover around it? :)

 

That is a limiting "feature" of the design. In any sea at all, with that much distance between the hulls, GCS will be in and out of wave tops constantly. The drag on that bit will go up like 800 times every time it is the water. That probably won't break it, but it will for sure slow the boat down.

 

Alinghi 5 *needs* flat water to have any chance at all.

Even just the gentle swell in this shot looks like it could come close to wetting the GC

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U6Cp5x-Sbr8/StnV.../DSC_1337_1.jpg

God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag, and weight of course) or a narrower boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good view of just how close Grand Central is to the water when they can't lift a hull - like what happened all day Saturday. Looks to be 3' max? Maybe they should wrap a wave piercer cover around it? :)

 

That is a limiting "feature" of the design. In any sea at all, with that much distance between the hulls, GCS will be in and out of wave tops constantly. The drag on that bit will go up like 800 times every time it is the water. That probably won't break it, but it will for sure slow the boat down.

 

Alinghi 5 *needs* flat water to have any chance at all.

Even just the gentle swell in this shot looks like it could come close to wetting the GC

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U6Cp5x-Sbr8/StnV.../DSC_1337_1.jpg

God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag) or a narrower boat.

There is precious little aerodynamic drag when the top speed of the boat sailing in 4 knots of wind is 12 knots. Alinghi have designed the boat to the venue and are counting on glass-flat seas and steady zephyrs to prevail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats probably the bag for the gennaker.

 

Stickering side-by-side (plz bare with me on my photo editing skilz).

Cool

 

Maybe this helps too?

 

2z9f6gz.jpg

 

looks like the same rig and main to me. no cuban fiber mini sail under the tramp though.

 

 

Look at the top of the mast, the paint job is different, under the red area there is on the Rak mast a white part, is that only a cosmetic thing? Does not look that much bigger, so doubt its the 60M stick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag, and weight of course) or a narrower boat.

 

Respectfully, I do not believe you can prove that statement.

IMO there is less drag and a minimum weight penalty, this based upon my limited design experience with high performance airframes where, like in high speed sailing, maximum L/D is achieved by drag reduction. You simply do not see struts and wires on high performance aircraft. There is a reason that 747's do not look like kites. :)

 

I have not been able to find any evidence to support the idea that a catamaran design has a great weight advantage over a trimaran design at this scale. When sailing at high speed, you must have enough structure to handle the loads. When two structures will see similar loads, and are constructed of the same material, the weight of material is similar. IMO any weight advantage Alinghi 5 might have is due to the fact that she is not designed to handle the great loads of sailing at maximum speeds. IMO if Alinghi 5 is "much" lighter than USA it is because she is also "much" more fragile.

 

While the "Y" struts might appear light, they must have a wall thickness that provides the needed stiffness to keep them in column. Compare the weight of a small mast section to the weight of a larger section with the same moments. IMO you can compare Alinghi 5 to a tube frame car, compared to a monocoque chassis. Monocoque construction has proved both lighter and stiffer. In the case of aircraft design monocoque designs are lighter, stiffer, and have less drag.

 

As always, I am eager to learn. If you have some evidence to consider that will make a case for Alinghi 5 being "much lighter" and or having "much less drag" I would like to read it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats probably the bag for the gennaker.

 

Stickering side-by-side (plz bare with me on my photo editing skilz).

Cool

 

Maybe this helps too?

 

2z9f6gz.jpg

 

looks like the same rig and main to me. no cuban fiber mini sail under the tramp though.

 

 

Look at the top of the mast, the paint job is different, under the red area there is on the Rak mast a white part, is that only a cosmetic thing? Does not look that much bigger, so doubt its the 60M stick.

Pretty sure it's just an effect by the angle of the light. Carbon, like carbon sails, can look completely different from even slightly varying angles. There is a small sticker difference as TonyF18 pointed out, the Hublot mark is lower (? http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php...t&id=119957 ), they did do at least something to the mast, maybe even a lot.

 

I agree it is not the 60M rig yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag, and weight of course) or a narrower boat.

 

Respectfully, I do not believe you can prove that statement.

IMO there is less drag and a minimum weight penalty, this based upon my limited design experience with high performance airframes where, like in high speed sailing, maximum L/D is achieved by drag reduction. You simply do not see struts and wires on high performance aircraft. There is a reason that 747's do not look like kites. :)

 

I have not been able to find any evidence to support the idea that a catamaran design has a great weight advantage over a trimaran design at this scale. When sailing at high speed, you must have enough structure to handle the loads. When two structures will see similar loads, and are constructed of the same material, the weight of material is similar. IMO any weight advantage Alinghi 5 might have is due to the fact that she is not designed to handle the great loads of sailing at maximum speeds. IMO if Alinghi 5 is "much" lighter than USA it is because she is also "much" more fragile.

 

While the "Y" struts might appear light, they must have a wall thickness that provides the needed stiffness to keep them in column. Compare the weight of a small mast section to the weight of a larger section with the same moments. IMO you can compare Alinghi 5 to a tube frame car, compared to a monocoque chassis. Monocoque construction has proved both lighter and stiffer. In the case of aircraft design monocoque designs are lighter, stiffer, and have less drag.

 

As always, I am eager to learn. If you have some evidence to consider that will make a case for Alinghi 5 being "much lighter" and or having "much less drag" I would like to read it.

This is quick and off the cuff, but if you go to carbolink and look at their latest news item about Sodebo, it is pretty dramatic. What the heck is the diameter of that, compared to the old?

Bertrand Cardis stated (it's an interview you can find on skippers.ch) that the Y amounts to on fifth the weight of a center hull. He knows more about this than me for sure. As to scale, my guess is that they have well managed to improve on what Le Black represented.

The neat thing is, that we're talking 'catamaran' when the Y allows you to build a trimaran with a practically invisible center hull.

And you've got this virtuous dynamic, that allows you to build everything lighter, if everything is lighter.

As to proving the statement that a center hull involves more drag and weight; what do you think those two paltry cables of the Y comprise in wind resistance? Everything else along the center line is a whole lot slimmer compared to the trimaran alternative.

 

http://www.carbo-link.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag, and weight of course) or a narrower boat.

 

Respectfully, I do not believe you can prove that statement.

IMO there is less drag and a minimum weight penalty, this based upon my limited design experience with high performance airframes where, like in high speed sailing, maximum L/D is achieved by drag reduction. You simply do not see struts and wires on high performance aircraft. There is a reason that 747's do not look like kites. :)

 

I have not been able to find any evidence to support the idea that a catamaran design has a great weight advantage over a trimaran design at this scale. When sailing at high speed, you must have enough structure to handle the loads. When two structures will see similar loads, and are constructed of the same material, the weight of material is similar. IMO any weight advantage Alinghi 5 might have is due to the fact that she is not designed to handle the great loads of sailing at maximum speeds. IMO if Alinghi 5 is "much" lighter than USA it is because she is also "much" more fragile.

 

While the "Y" struts might appear light, they must have a wall thickness that provides the needed stiffness to keep them in column. Compare the weight of a small mast section to the weight of a larger section with the same moments. IMO you can compare Alinghi 5 to a tube frame car, compared to a monocoque chassis. Monocoque construction has proved both lighter and stiffer. In the case of aircraft design monocoque designs are lighter, stiffer, and have less drag.

 

As always, I am eager to learn. If you have some evidence to consider that will make a case for Alinghi 5 being "much lighter" and or having "much less drag" I would like to read it.

This is quick and off the cuff, but if you go to carbolink and look at their latest news item about Sodebo, it is pretty dramatic. What the heck is the diameter of that, compared to the old?

Bertrand Cardis stated (it's an interview you can find on skippers.ch) that the Y amounts to on fifth the weight of a center hull. He knows more about this than me for sure. As to scale, my guess is that they have well managed to improve on what Le Black represented.

The neat thing is, that we're talking 'catamaran' when the Y allows you to build a trimaran with a practically invisible center hull.

And you've got this virtuous dynamic, that allows you to build everything lighter, if everything is lighter.

As to proving the statement that a center hull involves more drag and weight; what do you think those two paltry cables of the Y comprise in wind resistance? Everything else along the center line is a whole lot slimmer compared to the trimaran alternative.

 

http://www.carbo-link.com/

No reason to doubt that weight estimate but to make this thing work they did have to create a fairly massive under structure. A key to that was depth (the GC going so deep) and to get that the beam and the other top ends have to be quite high off the water for the geometry to be strong enough. That is likely why the hulls are so tall - far larger than DZ's slender amas. It's a weight tradeoff, basically; theirs is more in the floats compared to DZ. They just were comfortable with the approach because of designing, building, rigging and sailing the D41. Maybe the truss windage wasn't much an issue on that boat, as you suggest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No reason to doubt that weight estimate but to make this thing work they did have to create a fairly massive under structure. A key to that was depth (the GC going so deep) and to get that the beam and the other top ends have to be quite high off the water for the geometry to be strong enough. That is likely why the hulls are so tall - far larger than DZ's slender amas. It's a weight tradeoff, basically; theirs is more in the floats compared to DZ. They just were comfortable with the approach because of designing, building, rigging and sailing the D41. Maybe the truss windage wasn't much an issue on that boat, as you suggest.

One fine day we'll learn what CZ's hulls weighed and know how they compared against DZ. The DZ amas have to put up with more forces and are relatively more reinforced, I think.

Beyond that there is the issue of stiffness. CZ is very stiff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No reason to doubt that weight estimate but to make this thing work they did have to create a fairly massive under structure. A key to that was depth (the GC going so deep) and to get that the beam and the other top ends have to be quite high off the water for the geometry to be strong enough. That is likely why the hulls are so tall - far larger than DZ's slender amas. It's a weight tradeoff, basically; theirs is more in the floats compared to DZ. They just were comfortable with the approach because of designing, building, rigging and sailing the D41. Maybe the truss windage wasn't much an issue on that boat, as you suggest.

One fine day we'll learn what CZ's hulls weighed and know how they compared against DZ. The DZ amas have to put up with more forces and are relatively more reinforced, I think.

Beyond that there is the issue of stiffness. CZ is very stiff.

One of the interesting figures for DZ's max ama depth is in the recent SNG filing, where they argue about if/when the whatever (tonnage?) - cert was applied for. But yes, who the heck actually knows who is lighter? I think they are pretty close, maybe 5% or so.

 

edit: it was 5.81' see D1 halfway down in here. CZ's look to be 9' to 10' tall?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag, and weight of course) or a narrower boat.

 

Respectfully, I do not believe you can prove that statement.

IMO there is less drag and a minimum weight penalty, this based upon my limited design experience with high performance airframes where, like in high speed sailing, maximum L/D is achieved by drag reduction. You simply do not see struts and wires on high performance aircraft. There is a reason that 747's do not look like kites. :)

 

I have not been able to find any evidence to support the idea that a catamaran design has a great weight advantage over a trimaran design at this scale. When sailing at high speed, you must have enough structure to handle the loads. When two structures will see similar loads, and are constructed of the same material, the weight of material is similar. IMO any weight advantage Alinghi 5 might have is due to the fact that she is not designed to handle the great loads of sailing at maximum speeds. IMO if Alinghi 5 is "much" lighter than USA it is because she is also "much" more fragile.

 

While the "Y" struts might appear light, they must have a wall thickness that provides the needed stiffness to keep them in column. Compare the weight of a small mast section to the weight of a larger section with the same moments. IMO you can compare Alinghi 5 to a tube frame car, compared to a monocoque chassis. Monocoque construction has proved both lighter and stiffer. In the case of aircraft design monocoque designs are lighter, stiffer, and have less drag.

 

As always, I am eager to learn. If you have some evidence to consider that will make a case for Alinghi 5 being "much lighter" and or having "much less drag" I would like to read it.

This is quick and off the cuff, but if you go to carbolink and look at their latest news item about Sodebo, it is pretty dramatic. What the heck is the diameter of that, compared to the old?

Bertrand Cardis stated (it's an interview you can find on skippers.ch) that the Y amounts to on fifth the weight of a center hull. He knows more about this than me for sure. As to scale, my guess is that they have well managed to improve on what Le Black represented.

The neat thing is, that we're talking 'catamaran' when the Y allows you to build a trimaran with a practically invisible center hull.

And you've got this virtuous dynamic, that allows you to build everything lighter, if everything is lighter.

As to proving the statement that a center hull involves more drag and weight; what do you think those two paltry cables of the Y comprise in wind resistance? Everything else along the center line is a whole lot slimmer compared to the trimaran alternative.

 

http://www.carbo-link.com/

 

The Cd of a cable or circular strut or wire is 1.17, for a streamlined body it can be lower than .2 and a fully faired profile is well below .05

 

12 feet of 1 inch diameter cable, will have the same drag as a streamlined body almost 6 inches wide.

 

Replacing 1/4" inch rigging wire with 1 inch streamlined struts would be a drag reduction even though the projected area is 4 times greater.

 

Exposed wires were replaced with struts on aircraft for this reason. Larger cross section spars replaced the struts for the same reason. Monocoque wings with greater projected area than either wings with struts or wings with struts and wires have MUCH lower drag.

 

The very last thing you would consider for a high L/D design is exposed struts and wires. They are HUGE drag producers.

 

The control lines for speed sailing kites are one of the limits to their L/D and hence their upwind ability.

 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that at any given wind speed, Alinghi 5 has more drag than USA.

 

To sail at high multiples of wind speed, you must have high L/D. Here Alinghi 5 has traded top speed for light air ability.

 

There is a relationship between hydro drag and displacement. The envelope that Alinghi 5 may have a performance advantage over USA is at boat speeds where displacement drag is dominate. As speeds increase, aero drag and induces drag from the water foils dominate and any advantage Alinghi 5 might have will disappear.

 

IMO Alinghi's "window" is the lowest possible speed that allows her to finish a race in less than seven hours, to maybe 10-12 knots of boat speed. Above that any weight advantage she has will mean nothing. Accelerating quickly to a speed that is 5-10% slower will not win any races.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre added an audio recording of Saturday's "Alinghi press conference" a few minutes ago,

 

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2009/1...-in-ras-al.html (36:55 EB starts at about 2:40)

Interesting at about 18:00 where EB says the idea to take the Cup to the UAE was originally ETNZ's idea, and was suggested by Grant Dalton for if NZ won the Cup, because of the Emirates Airlines sponsorship.

 

I know we hashed this out some time back, did Dalton ever declare or deny that?

 

"The idea of hosting the America's Cup here doesn't actually come from us. It actually comes from Team New Zealand. Because you you'll remember - and I think still today - the main sponsor of Team New Zealand is the Emirates.. It was put forward that if they were to win the America's Cup then they would bring the America's Cup here."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre added an audio recording of Saturday's "Alinghi press conference" a few minutes ago,

 

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2009/1...-in-ras-al.html (36:55 EB starts at about 2:40)

Interesting at about 18:00 where EB says the idea to take the Cup to the UAE was originally ETNZ's idea, and was suggested by Grant Dalton for if NZ won the Cup, because of the Emirates Airlines sponsorship.

 

I know we hashed this out some time back, did Dalton ever declare or deny that?

 

"The idea of hosting the America's Cup here doesn't actually come from us. It actually comes from Team New Zealand. Because you you'll remember - and I think still today - the main sponsor of Team New Zealand is the Emirates.. It was put forward that if they were to win the America's Cup then they would bring the America's Cup here."

I wonder how the folks in Auckland would have responded to that? Hey, our 'nation' won the AC, let's host it in another country!

 

Despite the fact that the Deed doesn't specifically exclude doing this, in what many assert is the only interpretation - a plain language reading of the Deed - (re: just ignore the overarching intent of the Deed for a friendly competition between nations, etc.), can racing in RAK ever be construed as Deed-compliant without a RAK yacht club racing for RAK/UAE winning the AC?

 

Considering the Kiwis that I know, I can't help but think this would have been a big problem for ETNZ had they tried. As will be for GGYC if they ever win the cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre added an audio recording of Saturday's "Alinghi press conference" a few minutes ago,

 

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2009/1...-in-ras-al.html (36:55 EB starts at about 2:40)

Interesting at about 18:00 where EB says the idea to take the Cup to the UAE was originally ETNZ's idea, and was suggested by Grant Dalton for if NZ won the Cup, because of the Emirates Airlines sponsorship.

 

I know we hashed this out some time back, did Dalton ever declare or deny that?

 

"The idea of hosting the America's Cup here doesn't actually come from us. It actually comes from Team New Zealand. Because you you'll remember - and I think still today - the main sponsor of Team New Zealand is the Emirates.. It was put forward that if they were to win the America's Cup then they would bring the America's Cup here."

I wonder how the folks in Auckland would have responded to that? Hey, our 'nation' won the AC, let's host it in another country!

 

Despite the fact that the Deed doesn't specifically exclude doing this, in what many assert is the only interpretation - a plain language reading of the Deed - (re: just ignore the overarching intent of the Deed for a friendly competition between nations, etc.), can racing in RAK ever be construed as Deed-compliant without a RAK yacht club racing for RAK/UAE winning the AC?

 

Considering the Kiwis that I know, I can't help but think this would have been a big problem for ETNZ had they tried. As will be for GGYC if they ever win the cup.

Especially since there was NZ public money supporting their campaign too. I think EB misspoke, or tried to misdirect something, or whatever. He gets a bit thin skinned toward the end of the conference, his voice rises and gets a bit whiny, especially when the WSJ reporter asked him first: what he will do if the court goes against him on the venue, and second: about how soon time could run out before he should make concrete alternative arrangements. He didn't answer either one, but also did not say it is RAK or it is nowhere. He could have, sure had the opportunity to right there. Instead kept 'inviting' BOR to come to RAK. Interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yes horrible, but what about the judicial error rate of 68% for the death penalty in the US (study of James S. Liebman law teacher of Columbia University ) as we say here in Europe the Hospital is making fun of the ambulance

 

Lest this comment mislead people, the Liebman study did not find that 68% of executed prisoners were wrongfully convicted. It found that 68% of capitol cases that were reviewed as part of the judicial process were found to have serious errors. It says nothing about how many prisoners are wrongfully executed, or even whether the prisoners represented in the flawed cases were indeed guilty or not guilty. However, one could reasonably make the assumption because of the high error rate found during the judicial review process that some unknown number of flawed cases have resulted in wrongful executions or innocent prisoners, but almost certainly far less than 68%. The fact that the judicial review process finds such flaws is a strength, not a weakness, of the U.S. legal system.

 

Here is another look at the same study:

 

Kogan Co-Chairs National Group To Combat Wrongful Executions

http://www.law.miami.edu/news.php?article=95

 

"Gerald Kogan called attention to a recent study by researchers at Columbia University Law School, which found that two-thirds of the nearly 6,000 U.S. trials that have ended in death sentences since capital punishment was resumed in the 1970s have been so flawed that re-trials have been ordered. In 82 percent of the cases that were re-tried, the defendants received lesser sentences, and in 7 percent of the cases, the defendants were found not guilty."

Although I can't cite data to back up this statement, I am reasonably certain that the majority of the "lesser sentences" were life imprisonment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He gets a bit thin skinned toward the end of the conference, his voice rises and gets a bit whiny, especially when the WSJ reporter asked him first: what he will do if the court goes against him on the venue, and second: about how soon time could run out before he should make concrete alternative arrangements. He didn't answer either one, but also did not say it is RAK or it is nowhere. He could have, sure had the opportunity to right there. Instead kept 'inviting' BOR to come to RAK. Interesting.

Paraphrasing, but another question that was a bit of a left hook was when someone asked him, as a followup to the question to Massaad, if EB would be willing to go to San Francisco to talk to Larry. EB (rightfully, lol) says "WTF?" and that the world does not exist "in a straight line between New York and San Francisco" but then in one of his 'oops, oh shit' flips says that yes, he might consider it.. If he thought it would help. I actually feel sorry for him, for having to take that question. His line about how reading GGYC press releases is like watching the trailers of Halloween Horror movies was quite funny, I'll give him that too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speaking of women not getting justice, what about that story of the girl who got raped in Iraq by her colleagues but cant sue them because of het work contract? Isnt that crazy? :wacko:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/1...ape-claim-block

 

 

"Maze of Injustice: The Failure to Protect Indigenous Women from Sexual Violence in the USA"

 

A Summary of Amnesty International's Findings

Sexual violence against Indigenous women in the USA is widespread -- and especially brutal. According to US government statistics, Native American and Alaska Native women are more than 2.5 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted than other women in the USA. Some Indigenous women interviewed by Amnesty International said they didn’t know anyone in their community who had not experienced sexual violence. Though rape is always an act of violence, there is evidence that Indigenous women are more like than other women to suffer additional violence at the hands of their attackers. According to the US Department of Justice, in at least 86 per cent of the reported cases of rape or sexual assault against American Indian and Alaska Native women, survivors report that the perpetrators are non-Native men.

 

contd

 

 

So much for justice in the USA? The Land of the free?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre added an audio recording of Saturday's "Alinghi press conference" a few minutes ago,

 

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2009/1...-in-ras-al.html (36:55 EB starts at about 2:40)

Interesting at about 18:00 where EB says the idea to take the Cup to the UAE was originally ETNZ's idea, and was suggested by Grant Dalton for if NZ won the Cup, because of the Emirates Airlines sponsorship.

 

I know we hashed this out some time back, did Dalton ever declare or deny that?

 

"The idea of hosting the America's Cup here doesn't actually come from us. It actually comes from Team New Zealand. Because you you'll remember - and I think still today - the main sponsor of Team New Zealand is the Emirates.. It was put forward that if they were to win the America's Cup then they would bring the America's Cup here."

 

Reality is a little different from EB's recollection of events. It is correct that then TNZ did get Emirates Airlines on board as a sponsor, one of the general media then decided that could mean that if ETNZ won in 2007 then there might be a chance that the America's Cup could be staged in UAE (on the basis of the sponsorship connection). This technique is known as a "beat-up" in media circles here - ie a speculative story written without any foundation in fact. Also known in older media circles as "someone interviewing their typewriter". This does in fact give you two stories, because you run the speculation, and then you cover the denial - and adept practitioners of the black art, actually position themselves so that even if they originated the first, and it a load of bollocks, then they cover the denial in such a way that it is made to look as if some other half-wit wrote the original piece of speculation. Straight out of "Yes Minister", but I digress.

 

The Defence venue story was quickly denied by Emirates Airlines, and ETNZ who said they had a clause in their contract with the NZ Government (who had put in about NZD $35million) from "Vote Tourism" and a clause in that deal required that any Defence of the Cup be held in New Zealand. The Government/Tourism deal was signed long before the Emirates sponsorship.

 

The UAE venue used to be raised regularly by the general media, but I guess they got sick and tired of getting the standard denial, from the NZ Government and ETNZ and eventually believed what they were being told by people that were in a position to know.

 

It may be worth noting that NZ Government and local authorites do fund many sports events. The Government directly funds a lot of tourism marketing on the basis that the individual operators would not spend the marketing dollar that is required because they would not see a direct return. So, the NZ Government does spend on destination marketing. And, the America's Cup spend fits into this category, plus it can also have an export marketing value in any Challenge venue (except maybe RAK, but UAE would be fine) that the Cup is held, as by definition all other proper venues would be bigger than NZ and therefore a potentially bigger market. The position of TNZ is the America's Cup is such that it is a good brand (around for almost 25 years). It is a good selling and marketing tool for other NZ products, including the boatbuilding industry which exports more than the NZ wine industry. Plus the agriculture and manufacturing also do very well out of the TNZ and America's Cup association.

 

However there is no way that Defence will ever be held outside New Zealand when the Cup is won back by Team NZ.

 

RG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speaking of women not getting justice, what about that story of the girl who got raped in Iraq by her colleagues but cant sue them because of het work contract? Isnt that crazy? :wacko:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/1...ape-claim-block

 

 

"Maze of Injustice: The Failure to Protect Indigenous Women from Sexual Violence in the USA"

 

A Summary of Amnesty International's Findings

Sexual violence against Indigenous women in the USA is widespread -- and especially brutal. According to US government statistics, Native American and Alaska Native women are more than 2.5 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted than other women in the USA. Some Indigenous women interviewed by Amnesty International said they didn’t know anyone in their community who had not experienced sexual violence. Though rape is always an act of violence, there is evidence that Indigenous women are more like than other women to suffer additional violence at the hands of their attackers. According to the US Department of Justice, in at least 86 per cent of the reported cases of rape or sexual assault against American Indian and Alaska Native women, survivors report that the perpetrators are non-Native men.

 

contd

 

 

So much for justice in the USA? The Land of the free?

 

Yes, these findings are outrageous, but is sexual assalt an American phenomenon? According to a study out of George Mason University, 1 out of 3 women

worldwide has experienced rape or sexual assault. (http://www.gmu.edu/facstaff/sexual/brochures/WorldStats2005.pdf)

 

According to the same study, "In a randomly selected study of nearly 1,200 ninth grade students in Geneva, Switzerland, 20% of girls revealed they had experienced at least one incident of sexual abuse." Are we then to conclude that there is no justice in Switzerland or that, as you seem to imply, this has anything of value to add to the discussion of whether or not the Swiss or the U.S. should hold the Cup?

 

I would be happy to examine your country's record in this regard should you be willing to tell us your nationality. I suspect that the results would be similar to other countries, i.e., some women are sexually abused no matter the nation in which they live.

 

And yes, I am a citizen of the United States. And yes, I am ashamed of those facts. But your attempts to paint everything wrong with the world as being an American invention are so misguided and transparent as to be laughable. Human failing are universal, not limited to citizenship in the U.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speaking of women not getting justice, what about that story of the girl who got raped in Iraq by her colleagues but cant sue them because of het work contract? Isnt that crazy? :wacko:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/1...ape-claim-block

 

 

"Maze of Injustice: The Failure to Protect Indigenous Women from Sexual Violence in the USA"

 

A Summary of Amnesty International's Findings

Sexual violence against Indigenous women in the USA is widespread -- and especially brutal. According to US government statistics, Native American and Alaska Native women are more than 2.5 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted than other women in the USA. Some Indigenous women interviewed by Amnesty International said they didn't know anyone in their community who had not experienced sexual violence. Though rape is always an act of violence, there is evidence that Indigenous women are more like than other women to suffer additional violence at the hands of their attackers. According to the US Department of Justice, in at least 86 per cent of the reported cases of rape or sexual assault against American Indian and Alaska Native women, survivors report that the perpetrators are non-Native men.

 

contd

 

 

So much for justice in the USA? The Land of the free?

 

Yes, these findings are outrageous, but is sexual assalt an American phenomenon? According to a study out of George Mason University, 1 out of 3 women

worldwide has experienced rape or sexual assault. (http://www.gmu.edu/facstaff/sexual/brochures/WorldStats2005.pdf)

 

According to the same study, "In a randomly selected study of nearly 1,200 ninth grade students in Geneva, Switzerland, 20% of girls revealed they had experienced at least one incident of sexual abuse." Are we then to conclude that there is no justice in Switzerland or that, as you seem to imply, this has anything of value to add to the discussion of whether or not the Swiss or the U.S. should hold the Cup?

 

I would be happy to examine your country's record in this regard should you be willing to tell us your nationality. I suspect that the results would be similar to other countries, i.e., some women are sexually abused no matter the nation in which they live.

 

And yes, I am a citizen of the United States. And yes, I am ashamed of those facts. But your attempts to paint everything wrong with the world as being an American invention are so misguided and transparent as to be laughable. Human failing are universal, not limited to citizenship in the U.S.

 

 

That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

 

The fact that one of the Sep 11th hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi, was a native of not just the UAE but specifically of RAK, just is a damn fact. Sorry it that's inconvenient to your "I love RAK" cause. Did you know he was even an officer of the UAE defense forces, the one they propose to encircle the teams with?

 

If I wanted to take cheap shots like what you posted about the USA, about RAK, especially about women's rights, then it would be a loooong week! Geezus, it's hard to know where to even start! But does that have anything to do with AC 33, or links from off court docs? No. Neither does yours - it's basically, as mabian pointed out - pointless. It's why I, even if others have done some pointing, have basically refrained from that. You want to enlighten everyone about Timothy McVeigh? Go right ahead - it's your game, not mine, just don't expect a lot of contextual feedback.

 

edit: Plonk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Speaking of women not getting justice, what about that story of the girl who got raped in Iraq by her colleagues but cant sue them because of het work contract? Isnt that crazy? :wacko:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/1...ape-claim-block

 

 

"Maze of Injustice: The Failure to Protect Indigenous Women from Sexual Violence in the USA"

 

A Summary of Amnesty International's Findings

Sexual violence against Indigenous women in the USA is widespread -- and especially brutal. According to US government statistics, Native American and Alaska Native women are more than 2.5 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted than other women in the USA. Some Indigenous women interviewed by Amnesty International said they didn’t know anyone in their community who had not experienced sexual violence. Though rape is always an act of violence, there is evidence that Indigenous women are more like than other women to suffer additional violence at the hands of their attackers. According to the US Department of Justice, in at least 86 per cent of the reported cases of rape or sexual assault against American Indian and Alaska Native women, survivors report that the perpetrators are non-Native men.

 

contd

 

 

So much for justice in the USA? The Land of the free?

 

Yes, these findings are outrageous, but is sexual assalt an American phenomenon? According to a study out of George Mason University, 1 out of 3 women

worldwide has experienced rape or sexual assault. (http://www.gmu.edu/facstaff/sexual/brochures/WorldStats2005.pdf)

 

According to the same study, "In a randomly selected study of nearly 1,200 ninth grade students in Geneva, Switzerland, 20% of girls revealed they had experienced at least one incident of sexual abuse." Are we then to conclude that there is no justice in Switzerland or that, as you seem to imply, this has anything of value to add to the discussion of whether or not the Swiss or the U.S. should hold the Cup?

 

I would be happy to examine your country's record in this regard should you be willing to tell us your nationality. I suspect that the results would be similar to other countries, i.e., some women are sexually abused no matter the nation in which they live.

 

And yes, I am a citizen of the United States. And yes, I am ashamed of those facts. But your attempts to paint everything wrong with the world as being an American invention are so misguided and transparent as to be laughable. Human failing are universal, not limited to citizenship in the U.S.

Yes Norberto please do enlighten us, what is your nationality? Then we can know whether you live in that rare place on earth where no glass houses exist. Otherwise, please drop the rock and step back from the rock pile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre added an audio recording of Saturday's "Alinghi press conference" a few minutes ago,

 

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2009/1...-in-ras-al.html (36:55 EB starts at about 2:40)

Interesting at about 18:00 where EB says the idea to take the Cup to the UAE was originally ETNZ's idea, and was suggested by Grant Dalton for if NZ won the Cup, because of the Emirates Airlines sponsorship.

 

I know we hashed this out some time back, did Dalton ever declare or deny that?

 

"The idea of hosting the America's Cup here doesn't actually come from us. It actually comes from Team New Zealand. Because you you'll remember - and I think still today - the main sponsor of Team New Zealand is the Emirates.. It was put forward that if they were to win the America's Cup then they would bring the America's Cup here."

Can't wait to hear Dalts' response to that one. Oh right, he won't bother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can't wait to hear Dalts' response to that one. Oh right, he won't bother.

 

 

And nor should he.

 

Because Ernesto is full of shit.

 

ETNZ consistently said the defence would be in Auckland.

 

And, if it wasn't for that bloody sail, and Hutch's botched instructions concerning a penalty (and a subsequent penalty turn) that is where it would have been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can't wait to hear Dalts' response to that one. Oh right, he won't bother.

 

 

And nor should he.

 

Because Ernesto is full of shit.

 

ETNZ consistently said the defence would be in Auckland.

 

And, if it wasn't for that bloody sail, and Hutch's botched instructions concerning a penalty (and a subsequent penalty turn) that is where it would have been.

You should have included Dean Barker in your list...but that's just me :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

 

The fact that one of the Sep 11th hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi, was a native of not just the UAE but specifically of RAK, just is a damn fact. Sorry it that's inconvenient to your "I love RAK" cause. Did you know he was even an officer of the UAE defense forces, the one they propose to encircle the teams with?

 

If I wanted to take cheap shots like what you posted about the USA, about RAK, especially about women's rights, then it would be a loooong week! Geezus, it's hard to know where to even start! But does that have anything to do with AC 33, or links from off court docs? No. Neither does yours - it's basically, as mabian pointed out - pointless. It's why I, even if others have done some pointing, have basically refrained from that. You want to enlighten everyone about Timothy McVeigh? Go right ahead - it's your game, not mine, just don't expect a lot of contextual feedback.

 

edit: Plonk

 

Plus a very large plus ONE Noberto.

 

Who the fuck are you, you do not disclose, just pop your head out and hurl abuse. What is your linage, your ingrained slant on life.

 

Please come out of the closet and declare your self, if you are a man. Or would you prefer the modus operandi of the terrorist, hide in the shadows, remain anonymous and strike from the darkness as all cowards do.

 

You are a dog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

 

The fact that one of the Sep 11th hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi, was a native of not just the UAE but specifically of RAK, just is a damn fact. Sorry it that's inconvenient to your "I love RAK" cause. Did you know he was even an officer of the UAE defense forces, the one they propose to encircle the teams with?

 

If I wanted to take cheap shots like what you posted about the USA, about RAK, especially about women's rights, then it would be a loooong week! Geezus, it's hard to know where to even start! But does that have anything to do with AC 33, or links from off court docs? No. Neither does yours - it's basically, as mabian pointed out - pointless. It's why I, even if others have done some pointing, have basically refrained from that. You want to enlighten everyone about Timothy McVeigh? Go right ahead - it's your game, not mine, just don't expect a lot of contextual feedback.

 

edit: Plonk

 

Did you know Osama Bin Laden was a CIA agent or that the Taliban were armed by the US? Did you know...?

 

A doctor should treat your BORianism! Some Pergoveris or some Luveris might do the job! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on Pekos I see you lurking down there, your one of the crowd. Where are you from? Whats your agenda? You want to debate, fine, come out of the dark shadows and declare yourselves.

 

Its so easy wearing a cloak at the back buying bags of pebbles at a stoning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre added an audio recording of Saturday's "Alinghi press conference" a few minutes ago,

 

http://valenciasailing.blogspot.com/2009/1...-in-ras-al.html (36:55 EB starts at about 2:40)

Interesting at about 18:00 where EB says the idea to take the Cup to the UAE was originally ETNZ's idea, and was suggested by Grant Dalton for if NZ won the Cup, because of the Emirates Airlines sponsorship.

 

I know we hashed this out some time back, did Dalton ever declare or deny that?

 

"The idea of hosting the America's Cup here doesn't actually come from us. It actually comes from Team New Zealand. Because you you'll remember - and I think still today - the main sponsor of Team New Zealand is the Emirates.. It was put forward that if they were to win the America's Cup then they would bring the America's Cup here."

 

Reality is a little different from EB's recollection of events. It is correct that then TNZ did get Emirates Airlines on board as a sponsor, one of the general media then decided that could mean that if ETNZ won in 2007 then there might be a chance that the America's Cup could be staged in UAE (on the basis of the sponsorship connection). This technique is known as a "beat-up" in media circles here - ie a speculative story written without any foundation in fact. Also known in older media circles as "someone interviewing their typewriter". This does in fact give you two stories, because you run the speculation, and then you cover the denial - and adept practitioners of the black art, actually position themselves so that even if they originated the first, and it a load of bollocks, then they cover the denial in such a way that it is made to look as if some other half-wit wrote the original piece of speculation. Straight out of "Yes Minister", but I digress.

 

The Defence venue story was quickly denied by Emirates Airlines, and ETNZ who said they had a clause in their contract with the NZ Government (who had put in about NZD $35million) from "Vote Tourism" and a clause in that deal required that any Defence of the Cup be held in New Zealand. The Government/Tourism deal was signed long before the Emirates sponsorship.

 

The UAE venue used to be raised regularly by the general media, but I guess they got sick and tired of getting the standard denial, from the NZ Government and ETNZ and eventually believed what they were being told by people that were in a position to know.

 

It may be worth noting that NZ Government and local authorites do fund many sports events. The Government directly funds a lot of tourism marketing on the basis that the individual operators would not spend the marketing dollar that is required because they would not see a direct return. So, the NZ Government does spend on destination marketing. And, the America's Cup spend fits into this category, plus it can also have an export marketing value in any Challenge venue (except maybe RAK, but UAE would be fine) that the Cup is held, as by definition all other proper venues would be bigger than NZ and therefore a potentially bigger market. The position of TNZ is the America's Cup is such that it is a good brand (around for almost 25 years). It is a good selling and marketing tool for other NZ products, including the boatbuilding industry which exports more than the NZ wine industry. Plus the agriculture and manufacturing also do very well out of the TNZ and America's Cup association.

 

However there is no way that Defence will ever be held outside New Zealand when the Cup is won back by Team NZ.

 

RG

 

the story i heard from some reasonibly hooked up people was that if ETNZ won there would be "americas cup" in dubai. by that i took it as there would be some americas cup activity in dubai, i didn't take it that THE americas cup would be in dubai at that time, well not yet anyway.

 

there were all the other stories as well, like if ETNZ won that the team was going to be "alinghi'ed" again by the emirates & coutts to form another team and bring the cup to the uae. i could believe that one cause it has happened in the past and lets face it if the EB show can do it why not mohammad and his mates.

 

anyway sad to see the usual shit is getting in the way of a good ac story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Come on Pekos I see you lurking down there, your one of the crowd. Where are you from? Whats your agenda? You want to debate, fine, come out of the dark shadows and declare yourselves.

Its so easy wearing a cloak at the back buying bags of pebbles at a stoning.

Someone will come across my post, I hope, who recalls how much funnier this sort of dialogue used to be, when performed by Bob Grant on WOR radio, in New York.

 

After listening to hostile callers who perversely liked to follow his show and call in with objections, he would often give a sigh, and then remark:

"It's sick out there and getting sicker. By the way, where are you from, pal?"

 

Grant had a great ability do this with plenty of sarcasm, but no malevolence.

 

Everyone listening had to crack up. It just got funnier with repetition, and the listeners would wait for it with glee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
God forbid the GC should get wet. It might easily lead to a 'chain reaction' !

 

And glad to see you are in one piece following the dust-ups, SR. Though why you choose to bring it upon yourself...

 

Do you see how they bring the genaker inside the shrouds? That's cool.

 

Otherwise RH, when it comes to some drag with this undertramp cable arrangement, keep in mind what the alternatives are; a center hull (much more drag, and weight of course) or a narrower boat.

 

Respectfully, I do not believe you can prove that statement.

IMO there is less drag and a minimum weight penalty, this based upon my limited design experience with high performance airframes where, like in high speed sailing, maximum L/D is achieved by drag reduction. You simply do not see struts and wires on high performance aircraft. There is a reason that 747's do not look like kites. :)

 

I have not been able to find any evidence to support the idea that a catamaran design has a great weight advantage over a trimaran design at this scale. When sailing at high speed, you must have enough structure to handle the loads. When two structures will see similar loads, and are constructed of the same material, the weight of material is similar. IMO any weight advantage Alinghi 5 might have is due to the fact that she is not designed to handle the great loads of sailing at maximum speeds. IMO if Alinghi 5 is "much" lighter than USA it is because she is also "much" more fragile.

 

While the "Y" struts might appear light, they must have a wall thickness that provides the needed stiffness to keep them in column. Compare the weight of a small mast section to the weight of a larger section with the same moments. IMO you can compare Alinghi 5 to a tube frame car, compared to a monocoque chassis. Monocoque construction has proved both lighter and stiffer. In the case of aircraft design monocoque designs are lighter, stiffer, and have less drag.

 

As always, I am eager to learn. If you have some evidence to consider that will make a case for Alinghi 5 being "much lighter" and or having "much less drag" I would like to read it.

This is quick and off the cuff, but if you go to carbolink and look at their latest news item about Sodebo, it is pretty dramatic. What the heck is the diameter of that, compared to the old?

Bertrand Cardis stated (it's an interview you can find on skippers.ch) that the Y amounts to on fifth the weight of a center hull. He knows more about this than me for sure. As to scale, my guess is that they have well managed to improve on what Le Black represented.

The neat thing is, that we're talking 'catamaran' when the Y allows you to build a trimaran with a practically invisible center hull.

And you've got this virtuous dynamic, that allows you to build everything lighter, if everything is lighter.

As to proving the statement that a center hull involves more drag and weight; what do you think those two paltry cables of the Y comprise in wind resistance? Everything else along the center line is a whole lot slimmer compared to the trimaran alternative.

 

http://www.carbo-link.com/

 

The Cd of a cable or circular strut or wire is 1.17, for a streamlined body it can be lower than .2 and a fully faired profile is well below .05

 

12 feet of 1 inch diameter cable, will have the same drag as a streamlined body almost 6 inches wide.

 

Replacing 1/4" inch rigging wire with 1 inch streamlined struts would be a drag reduction even though the projected area is 4 times greater.

 

Exposed wires were replaced with struts on aircraft for this reason. Larger cross section spars replaced the struts for the same reason. Monocoque wings with greater projected area than either wings with struts or wings with struts and wires have MUCH lower drag.

 

The very last thing you would consider for a high L/D design is exposed struts and wires. They are HUGE drag producers.

 

The control lines for speed sailing kites are one of the limits to their L/D and hence their upwind ability.

 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that at any given wind speed, Alinghi 5 has more drag than USA.

 

To sail at high multiples of wind speed, you must have high L/D. Here Alinghi 5 has traded top speed for light air ability.

 

There is a relationship between hydro drag and displacement. The envelope that Alinghi 5 may have a performance advantage over USA is at boat speeds where displacement drag is dominate. As speeds increase, aero drag and induces drag from the water foils dominate and any advantage Alinghi 5 might have will disappear.

 

IMO Alinghi's "window" is the lowest possible speed that allows her to finish a race in less than seven hours, to maybe 10-12 knots of boat speed. Above that any weight advantage she has will mean nothing. Accelerating quickly to a speed that is 5-10% slower will not win any races.

It is quite true that circular sections have a high drag, but I think you are forgetting to bear in mind that most of the Alinghi5 underdeck cables are heavily slanted relative to the direction of sail and will therefore present a slender ellipse to the apparent wind with much less drag. They also have a streamlining sleeve over the front crossbeam whereas BOR90 still seems to have no streamlining at all over their very massive akas. Certainly if you are concerned about drag from those underdeck cables you should be very concerned about that aka drag, the back side of the rear BOR90 aka alone must grossly exceed the drag of all the cables meeting at GCS including the mast step.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

 

The fact that one of the Sep 11th hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi, was a native of not just the UAE but specifically of RAK, just is a damn fact. Sorry it that's inconvenient to your "I love RAK" cause. Did you know he was even an officer of the UAE defense forces, the one they propose to encircle the teams with?

 

If I wanted to take cheap shots like what you posted about the USA, about RAK, especially about women's rights, then it would be a loooong week! Geezus, it's hard to know where to even start! But does that have anything to do with AC 33, or links from off court docs? No. Neither does yours - it's basically, as mabian pointed out - pointless. It's why I, even if others have done some pointing, have basically refrained from that. You want to enlighten everyone about Timothy McVeigh? Go right ahead - it's your game, not mine, just don't expect a lot of contextual feedback.

 

edit: Plonk

 

Plus a very large plus ONE Noberto.

 

Who the fuck are you, you do not disclose, just pop your head out and hurl abuse. What is your linage, your ingrained slant on life.

 

Please come out of the closet and declare your self, if you are a man. Or would you prefer the modus operandi of the terrorist, hide in the shadows, remain anonymous and strike from the darkness as all cowards do.

 

You are a dog.

That's an insult to dogs everywhere. :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

 

The fact that one of the Sep 11th hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi, was a native of not just the UAE but specifically of RAK, just is a damn fact. Sorry it that's inconvenient to your "I love RAK" cause. Did you know he was even an officer of the UAE defense forces, the one they propose to encircle the teams with?

 

If I wanted to take cheap shots like what you posted about the USA, about RAK, especially about women's rights, then it would be a loooong week! Geezus, it's hard to know where to even start! But does that have anything to do with AC 33, or links from off court docs? No. Neither does yours - it's basically, as mabian pointed out - pointless. It's why I, even if others have done some pointing, have basically refrained from that. You want to enlighten everyone about Timothy McVeigh? Go right ahead - it's your game, not mine, just don't expect a lot of contextual feedback.

 

edit: Plonk

 

Plus a very large plus ONE Noberto.

 

Who the fuck are you, you do not disclose, just pop your head out and hurl abuse. What is your linage, your ingrained slant on life.

 

Please come out of the closet and declare your self, if you are a man. Or would you prefer the modus operandi of the terrorist, hide in the shadows, remain anonymous and strike from the darkness as all cowards do.

 

You are a dog.

That's an insult to dogs everywhere. :o

I agree - completely uncalled for. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, what is wrong with that location for a multihull race? There is a nice breeze, its always sunny, no freak weather patterns etc.

It has a govt. who is literally willing to spend whatever it takes to keep both syndicates happy, they have already built them an island.

I also dont think this DoG match which, lets be honest, is extreme decadent could count on any support in Spain.

Spain has been hit the hardest of any european country by this recession (20% unemployment!), they have more important matters to worry about than a billionaire fight.

 

The way I see it Alingi got hold of a decent location that will cost them nothing and has little strings attached (afaik).

GGYCs treatment of the RAK officials (letting them fly over to tell them they are'nt coming) doesnt deserve any medals,

in my experience of the Arab world is that they care a lot about hospitality and like to be treated the same as they treat their guests.

 

 

 

Another thing that is bothering me lately is that the SA-AC forum is turning into a BOR-fanclub where they can do no wrong and are always right.

 

nothing, except it is not deed legal (and maybe a little too close to iran ;) ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That has certainly not been my intention, and if it came across as such then accept my apologies. I solely intended to show that there has been a smear campaign going on here by Stingray and his sidekicks going to the extend of posting made up Photoshop evidence in bad taste and posting obviously biased writings from obscure sources trying to defame RAK.

 

If you are sitting in a glass house don't throw rocks at others! Especially not talking about violence in the world!

 

The fact that one of the Sep 11th hijackers, Marwan al-Shehhi, was a native of not just the UAE but specifically of RAK, just is a damn fact. Sorry it that's inconvenient to your "I love RAK" cause. Did you know he was even an officer of the UAE defense forces, the one they propose to encircle the teams with?

 

If I wanted to take cheap shots like what you posted about the USA, about RAK, especially about women's rights, then it would be a loooong week! Geezus, it's hard to know where to even start! But does that have anything to do with AC 33, or links from off court docs? No. Neither does yours - it's basically, as mabian pointed out - pointless. It's why I, even if others have done some pointing, have basically refrained from that. You want to enlighten everyone about Timothy McVeigh? Go right ahead - it's your game, not mine, just don't expect a lot of contextual feedback.

 

edit: Plonk

 

Plus a very large plus ONE Noberto.

 

Who the fuck are you, you do not disclose, just pop your head out and hurl abuse. What is your linage, your ingrained slant on life.

 

Please come out of the closet and declare your self, if you are a man. Or would you prefer the modus operandi of the terrorist, hide in the shadows, remain anonymous and strike from the darkness as all cowards do.

 

You are a dog.

That's an insult to dogs everywhere. :o

I agree - completely uncalled for. ;)

 

Sorry guys, what was I thinking??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stuart Streuli gives his evaluation after trip to RAK, in Sailingworld, yesterday Oct. 19th.

 

RAK is an acceptable venue, he thinks, with regards to wind, infrastructure, and security.

 

Oracle should get over there and race the race, is his opinion.

 

I found his article most notable for what he had found in the way of earlier testimony about the wind conditions February-like:

 

(as we all know, the question of wind strength in RAK has generated thousands of posts here, but little of it informed)

 

Wind: Alinghi and Sweden's Victory Challenge both chose Dubai as a winter training location to prepare for the 32nd America's Cup in Valencia, Spain.

 

Both teams spoke in glowing terms about the sailing conditions in Dubai during the winter months.

"There were 25 days of high quality two-boat racing from the 4th of January to the 4th of February, and they exceeded all expectations," read a Victory Challenge press release from Feb. 9, 2007. "'I have never sailed in a place with such persistent good wind conditions throughout a whole month,' says Magnus Holmberg, skipper and helmsman.

 

 

rest of the article here: http://www.sailingworld.com/americas-cup/r...1000068251.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And yesterday there was also a few quotes from Russell and Ernesto at TSR.ch:

 

Including this Bertarelli quote:

 

"Je suis allé deux fois à San Francisco voir Larry Ellison. J'ai l'impression que c'est toujours à moi de me déplacer. Le monde ne commence pas à New York et ne finit pas à San Francisco. L'issue du conflit ? Que Larry vienne ici, à Ras Al Khaimah, pour discuter"

"I've gone twice to San Francisco to see Larry Ellison. I have the impression that it is always up to me to do the travelling. The world doesn't begin in New York nor end in San Francisco. A way out of this disagreement? That Larry comes here, to Ras Al Khaimah, to talk about it."

 

And of course Larry can do no such thing until the lawyers have exhausted themselves, however reasonable it might sound, otherwise.

 

http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html?siteSect=...r=ads_rss_texte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stuart Streuli gives his evaluation after trip to RAK, in Sailingworld, yesterday Oct. 19th.

 

RAK is an acceptable venue, he thinks, with regards to wind, infrastructure, and security.

 

Oracle should get over there and race the race, is his opinion.

 

I found his article most notable for what he had found in the way of earlier testimony about the wind conditions February-like:

 

(as we all know, the question of wind strength in RAK has generated thousands of posts here, but little of it informed)

 

Wind: Alinghi and Sweden's Victory Challenge both chose Dubai as a winter training location to prepare for the 32nd America's Cup in Valencia, Spain.

 

Both teams spoke in glowing terms about the sailing conditions in Dubai during the winter months.

"There were 25 days of high quality two-boat racing from the 4th of January to the 4th of February, and they exceeded all expectations," read a Victory Challenge press release from Feb. 9, 2007. "'I have never sailed in a place with such persistent good wind conditions throughout a whole month,' says Magnus Holmberg, skipper and helmsman.

 

 

rest of the article here: http://www.sailingworld.com/americas-cup/r...1000068251.html

 

Yes Dubai... but Dubai is not RAK.

 

Just have a look at google map and you will see why it is very likely that the thermal see breeze is much stronger in Dubai than in RAK:

 

- Amount of "hot" land behind RAK is much smaller

- On the other side of this land there is an other see and that will generate a thermal see breeze conflicting with the one coming from RAK

 

All the reports telling that Dubai is such a great place to sail are may be right, but it seams that RAK has not the same good conditions. It is not because there is only 60miles between the two that they have the same wind... (do you think the bise is blowing the same in Morges and at le Bouveret? Swiss will understand what I mean).

 

Cheers from cheeseland ;)

 

p.s. hope to see these two boats race whatever the place but before 2017 :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites