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M32 Gold Cup

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STAR USA 32

 

Jeff, Harry, Bora, Sarah, et al....they'll get it done.

 

thanks for the vote of confidence, too bad they have a rook pitman(me)

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Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?

 

SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.

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Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?

 

SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.

 

The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.

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Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?

 

SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.

 

The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.

 

 

Yes, but Big Boat Series is still the pre-worlds. I think he was asking about the worlds in 2010 anyway.

 

Actually I know of one M32 that is practicing in Santa Cruz right now.

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Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?

 

SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.

 

The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.

 

 

Yes, but Big Boat Series is still the pre-worlds. I think he was asking about the worlds in 2010 anyway.

 

Actually I know of one M32 that is practicing in Santa Cruz right now.

 

 

Sorry for the confusion with the poor wording. I meant to ask where are the current 2009 world champions, Bilksem. Perhaps the boat is still in Europe?

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Looks like a good turnout. Where are the World Champs?

 

SF, Big Boat Series is the pre-worlds I believe.

 

The Big Boat Series has come and gone (as well as the 2009 Worlds). The worlds will be there in 2010, but I doubt teams are sailing alone over there right now when there the fleet is racing out east.

 

 

Yes, but Big Boat Series is still the pre-worlds. I think he was asking about the worlds in 2010 anyway.

 

Actually I know of one M32 that is practicing in Santa Cruz right now.

 

 

Sorry for the confusion with the poor wording. I meant to ask where are the current 2009 world champions, Bilksem. Perhaps the boat is still in Europe?

 

Bliksem's new boat won't be ready until Miami, and they've got racing to do in Europe with the World Champ winning boat. Primo Cup in February I think, and then the Audi Series starts in April or May. a

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I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.

 

I hate to burst your bubble but NW hasn't been all amateur for some years. Doug Fisher is NOT an amateur neither was Nixon when he sailed with them last year. Isn't Moon a 3?

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I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.

 

I hate to burst your bubble but NW hasn't been all amateur for some years. Doug Fisher is NOT an amateur neither was Nixon when he sailed with them last year. Isn't Moon a 3?

He said "entirly amature" not entirely amateur. Big difference. Its actually Italian, and means that they are all "gardeners" and "mail men."

 

 

Actually New Wave is a great program with some very good genuinely amateur sailors and I'm always happy to see them beat up on the big boys.

 

 

 

I'll reserve my call on who will win the event until I see all the boats in the water.

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I said it last year when they won but nobody would listen. I am taking the entirly amature crew on New Wave.

 

I hate to burst your bubble but NW hasn't been all amateur for some years. Doug Fisher is NOT an amateur neither was Nixon when he sailed with them last year. Isn't Moon a 3?

 

Scott was not on the boat last year in Key West and Doug has not been on the boat in about two years. He will be on the boat in Luderdale, but not Key West or Miami.

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What ever happened to those Texas boats? Lots of bravado last couple of years from them. Wasn't there a couple of different Pensacola boats? What happened to them? I sure thought more European boats would be sailing in the US this winter too.

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What ever happened to those Texas boats? Lots of bravado last couple of years from them. Wasn't there a couple of different Pensacola boats? What happened to them? I sure thought more European boats would be sailing in the US this winter too.

I think you'll see more Euro boats here next year. Mascalzone, Joe Fly, and Uka Uka are all racing KW in either Farr 40 or M24 classes and the Monaco Primo Cup is in March I think, so it probably didn't make sense to ship just for Gold Cup this year. Fantasticaa should be solid though, they had some solid results at worlds in tough conditions. It's going to be interesting to see how STAR does, once the class of the fleet but long out of practice, and with some new blood aboard...

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One Texas boat, Mojo, will sit out this years Florida circuit. We may be back in time for San Fran but owner says for sure be back for Ft. Lauderdale next year. The other Texas boat, Black River is still sitting at the yacht club will all the covers on for sale. I am bummed not to be in Ft. Laud. or Key West with the 32's, it is such a great boat and two great venues for racing.

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Any hope getting conditions like this in Ft Lauderdale?

 

 

 

Still pretty far out, but the conditions are looking great for the practice days!

 

Synopsis (Ft. Lauderdale)

High pressure will move east to the western Atlantic by early Sunday. Generally good boating conditions should prevail at least through Tuesday across all of the South Florida coastal waters. Winds will pick up on Wednesday ahead of a cold front expected to sweep across the area on Thursday. Hazardous and rough marine conditions will likely affect all of South Florida waters Wednesday night and Thursday.

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We'll see Pai - I'll tell you what though, it is going to be GREAT to catch up with so many friends at Gold Cup, a quick look at the crew lists shows Viper friends, Melges 24 friends, Melges 20 friends, Mumm 30 friends, and Farr 40 friends. Good to see that the M32 is sucking in all the other sailors!

 

We are definitely confirmed, with a nice surprise or two. The first big one is a welcome to Sharon Green and Ultimate Sailing as one of our sponsors for Gold Cup, and the second is the deal we made with Kattack to bring real-time tracking to OTW Anarchy. We have played with the prototype for some time, and we're confident that the Kattack guys have it sorted, meaning you'll have videos, pics, and now, live tracking for the entire event.

 

Good shit, and welcome to Sharon.

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Might be a good idea to put a Kattack tracking device onboard the OTWA ride :lol:

 

Not that you would ever be in the wrong place & interfering with racing, but you never know who might accuse you.

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http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eID=295

 

This looks like an interesting line up with interesting teams. Top ten guesses?

 

 

Heartbreaker team making their Melges 32 debut here, but I'll put them in the top-10 anyway. good = good, regardless of boat class.

 

Speaking of good, I see Hutchinson listed on one of the devos kids' boats. Cool !

 

Can't wait to watch the event online, way more interesting than the stupid AC debacle.

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What a joke that they are looking at Marty from New Wave! Johnny Lovell? Flipper/Poop? Curtis? ISAF is a joke.

 

I really do not know the rest of the dudes other then Bora, but it seems really shady to me that this regatta has had a crew list up for WEEKS and they wait until the absolute last minute to hold these hearings?

 

What happens if all 4 of the dudes from Leenabarca get flicked? Does Alex just say fuck it and go home? I mean you wait until the morning of the last practice day? That is fucking bullshit!

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From the mysterious front page...

 

 

Golden Boys

 

While the world's economy collapsed, taking a great deal of Grand Prix yacht racing with it, a funny thing happened: An pricy little rocket prospered.

 

We're talking of course about the Melges 32, which has again drawn a 20+ strong fleet for their Gold Cup this weekend, the first of a four-part winter series that starts here in the trade winds and topaz waters of Ft. Lauderdale and ends with the class's first-ever trip to Charleston Race Week. And On-The-Water Anarchy will, once again, be on hand to bring the entire regatta to your computer screens.

 

Lessons Learned

 

While our live, streaming video coverage of every minute of the Melges 24 Worlds was a first in the sport, we took a lot of crap for excessively long periods of boredom between mark roundings. And the criticism was spot-on. Streaming video simply doesn't work for big fleet racing on open courses - the distances are too great and, unless you get permission to run up and down the middle of the course amongst the racers, a 90 minute race only has about 10 minutes of interesting video action. And even a dozen interviews each morning can't fill up the dead spots.

 

So we proved we could overcome the technological difficulties only to find out that we couldn't overcome the lack of content. But we're quick learners, and for Gold Cup we're back to a formula that worked so well for our M32 Worlds coverage in Porto Cervo this summer: Short videos of every start, mark rounding, and finish posted to YouTube with just a few minutes delay. Real time text commentary in the OTW Anarchy forum. Dozens of interviews with the most interesting people at the event - and there are some great characters at this one. Our live "Cocktail Hour" talk show, with the top names in sailing in attendance. And great photos and slideshows from the lovely Meredith Block.

 

But Wait, There's More...

 

Many of you also pointed out that real-time tracking info would make your spectating a lot more meaningful. It's something that we've been working on since we brought the first real-time tracking to you from a buoy race back at the Canada's Cup, but the technology simply hasn't been available for mass market use. But that's changed now, with the guys at well-known race replayer Kattack bringing their real-time solution to market just a few weeks ago. We'll be featuring the embedded Kattack live player on our OTW Anarchy live screen, along with links to the daily forum threads and everything else you need to know about the event. This will definitely be a first.

 

Chillin'

 

We also have responded to another criticism - that of our sometimes bawdy nature and occasional overexhuberance from one or more exhibitionist female crew members. While we know that many of you love when we get all "Girls Gone Wild" during OTWA, we're toning it down for this one in appreciation of host Lauderdale Yacht Club's awesome "Take a Junior Sailing Day." For the third straight year, part of the NOR requires each competitor to host a junior sailor aboard for all of Saturday's racing. It's a great way to get kids the ride of a lifetime, and we want those kids to be able to check out all the event's action without being showered with F-Bombs or jiggling bits. And with our new attitude, we've even lured Melges Performance Sailboats President Andy Burdick and Melges Europe President Federico Michetti to the OTW coverage boat as guest commentators for two of the three days of action.

 

Pigs are flying somewhere.

 

A Cast Of Characters

 

Most of you OTWA fans know dozens of the players that will be racing at Gold Cup. Many are sailing's new breed of rock star, and you've met them in much more accessible places than the America's Cup, the VOR, or the Medcup. They are one-design, ultra-high-performance specialists, and their names include young studs like Bora Gulari, Steve Hunt, Matt Noble, Bear Peet, Jonny Goldsberry, and Jeremy Wilmot as well as not-so-young studs like Dave Ullman, Jud Smith, Wally Cross, and Terry Hutchinson. They've all made their appearances on OTWA in the past, and we're stoked to get to follow and party with them down in Lauderdale. If you have any questions for any of these guys (see crew lists here) - and dozens of other top racers - pass them along. There's new blood too, with movement into the class from the dump-truck Swan 42s with Celeritas and Arethusa, and additional defection from the Farr 40 class with Ramrod and Heartbreaker. Will there be any US one-design big-boat class left in another year?

 

Pimped

 

We're immensely grateful to another stellar lineup of sponsors for our coverage of Gold Cup, who will be offering big discounts and great prizes for those that tune in to OTWA. Please check them out.

 

A huge welcome to the lovely and talented Sharon Green, whose Ultimate Sailing joins On-The-Water Anarchy to show off their great line of calendars, awesome eco-friendly recycled shopping bags covered with great sailing shots, and a complete lineup of gift ideas for the racer in your life. We alsp want to welcome back previous sponsors Kattack, the always-reliable Latis Yachting Solutions, and the excellent Charleston Race Week, which will host the 32s as one of 2010 points events for the first time. And of course our biggest supporter is Point Loma Outfitting, who makes sure we look at least as good on the water as the top Italian teams - no mean feat.

 

We'll be giving away three pairs of shiney new Kaenon sunglasses, some Ultimate Sailing calendars, and more - so check out the Gold Cup Preview on Thursday's front page for more info and the links to all the action. Here's a thread in the mean time, you can check out last year's Gold Cup coverage here, and the 32 Worlds coverage here.

 

Gold Times!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a joke that they are looking at Marty from New Wave! Johnny Lovell? Flipper/Poop? Curtis? ISAF is a joke.

 

I really do not know the rest of the dudes other then Bora, but it seems really shady to me that this regatta has had a crew list up for WEEKS and they wait until the absolute last minute to hold these hearings?

 

What happens if all 4 of the dudes from Leenabarca get flicked? Does Alex just say fuck it and go home? I mean you wait until the morning of the last practice day? That is fucking bullshit!

Yep.

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A huge welcome to the lovely and talented Sharon Green, whose Ultimate Sailing joins On-The-Water Anarchy to show off their great line of calendars, awesome eco-friendly recycled shopping bags covered with great sailing shots, and a complete lineup of gift ideas for the racer in your life. We alsp want to welcome back previous sponsors Kattack, the always-reliable Latis Yachting Solutions, and the excellent Charleston Race Week, which will host the 32s as one of 2010 points events for the first time. And of course our biggest supporter is Point Loma Outfitting, who makes sure we look at least as good on the water as the top Italian teams - no mean feat.

 

We'll be giving away three pairs of shiney new Kaenon sunglasses, some Ultimate Sailing calendars, and more - so check out the Gold Cup Preview on Thursday's front page for more info and the links to all the action. Here's a thread in the mean time, you can check out last year's Gold Cup coverage here, and the 32 Worlds coverage here.

 

Gold Times!

 

You gonna ask Sharon to show her tits again?

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ISAF category police are having a field day. Four interviews on one boat.

 

There were some questionable ones on the crew lists for sure. I think Tac is right though, why the fuck are they waiting till NOW to do these?

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the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?

there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.

will be interesting for sure.

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the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?

there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.

will be interesting for sure.

 

Many of these guys on the list have already been interviewed this year already. I thought once you pass the litmus test it's good for two years? Maybe the owners or the pros onboard are spreading (mis)information to get things re-opened? Whatever the case, it creates another barrier to a declining sport. Golf and ski trips are fun too.

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the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?

there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.

will be interesting for sure.

The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

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the real question is WHO called or wanted isaf to come and do some talking to some of the crews?

there had to be some fluff and buff to get them to come do this. the m32 class has been running into the same problems as the f40 class has had for awhile with the pros/nonpros. we all know how much crap and greyness there is between these top crews and who gets what and rumors all around.

will be interesting for sure.

The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

Yes.

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So is Dobbs it the Judge and Jury on the fate of these teams....?

If there is a formal review process which there is... what is the f'ing point of the interviews?

 

Should have left it like the M24 had a corinthian trophy that you can have all 1's to qualify for.

 

Every class that has sailor catagory limitations will always be exploited ... always has...

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So is Dobbs it the Judge and Jury on the fate of these teams....?

If there is a formal review process which there is... what is the f'ing point of the interviews?

 

Should have left it like the M24 had a corinthian trophy that you can have all 1's to qualify for.

 

Every class that has sailor catagory limitations will always be exploited ... always has...

Dobbs is at least marginally in touch with reality. Hopefully it's him instead of Anthony LaDouche.

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I think Dobbs is pretty reasonable. However, he's also brighter than the average guy. The top hat and tap shoes won't work very well with him.

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Is ISAF really that dim?

 

 

ISAF doesn't force classes to go to categories-don't they just provide the framework?

If there is any ?? about how it is being used isn't it the classes deal?

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Is ISAF really that dim?

 

 

ISAF doesn't force classes to go to categories-don't they just provide the framework?

If there is any ?? about how it is being used isn't it the classes deal?

 

Exactly why I said they should have followed the M24 rule... been working very well I think..

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What a joke that they are looking at Marty from New Wave! Johnny Lovell? Flipper/Poop? Curtis? ISAF is a joke.

 

I really do not know the rest of the dudes other then Bora, but it seems really shady to me that this regatta has had a crew list up for WEEKS and they wait until the absolute last minute to hold these hearings?

 

What happens if all 4 of the dudes from Leenabarca get flicked? Does Alex just say fuck it and go home? I mean you wait until the morning of the last practice day? That is fucking bullshit!

 

The category thing continues to be one of the most backwardly implemented and enforced rules. Take the gloves off and let them sail, owners drive, and require 50% corinthian. Done.

 

Corinthians take no indirect or direct comp for sailing. Cars, vacations, "coaching", sail testing, 20k jibs dont count. Pre-screen them.

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The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

Clean the class send notices out WAY in advance to the owners that there will be interviews.. The fact that ISAF rep comes in two days before hand is simple, that when the teams show up. How the hell else are they going to do it.

Regards,

Crew

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Many of these guys on the list have already been interviewed this year already. I thought once you pass the litmus test it's good for two years? Maybe the owners or the pros onboard are spreading (mis)information to get things re-opened? Whatever the case, it creates another barrier to a declining sport. Golf and ski trips are fun too.

SailDry, I think the point is obvious, a number of these guys are being reviewed again says two things very clearly: 1) ISAF does not fully believe the competitor, and/or 2) These guys are being put on notice that when the ISAF Competitor rule changes in April these guys are going to be re-classified.

Cheers,

Crew

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The class itself brings in the ISAF interviewer. Problem is that the process is fundamentally flawed because these twats allot only two days at the beginning of the event to do their interviews. I do not understand why they are going through the same exact process that was so roundly criticized by sailors and three or four publications and acknowledged to be at fault. Is ISAF really that dim?

Clean the class send notices out WAY in advance to the owners that there will be interviews.. The fact that ISAF rep comes in two days before hand is simple, that when the teams show up. How the hell else are they going to do it.

Regards,

Crew

The issue I have, crew, is that ISAF has a policy of ONLY doing face-to-face interviews for their classification inquiries, and even when requested, they will not come on an earlier weekend (practice, perhaps) or conduct fact-finding interviews over the phone, or Skype, or whatever. I think they want to see people squirm a little.

 

Considering that much of the decision making is subjective, and often by a fact finder who simply does not know the players, it's all a bit sketchy, and the process is expensive and reactionary. I'd like to see them do Skype interviews where possible, and reserve last-minute face-to-face interviews for those for whom questions still remain after the remote interviews.

 

The policing is definitely necessary - I don't argue with that at all - but it would be good to see some streamlining and logic brought to the process. And for fuck's sake, leave Bora and Curtis alone. They've both been through probably a dozen interviews already in the past three years. Despite the fact that some owners don't like it, the fucking code does not treat people whose family pays for them to sail as pros!

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

 

 

Abuse of the system is rampant. There are people in this thread that lie to keep their Group 1.

 

I don't see how they could change the system to overcome the human ability to distort and lie to protect their own desires.

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

 

Unfortunately, I sail with several of the people in other classes and am not going to be "the asshole". I just know it would not be worth it for me to do it.

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Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...

 

if I had my druthers, they'd just get rid of the categories altogether...

I'd sail against pro's every day of the year if I could...

sooner or later, I'd learn something (I hope) -

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

 

Unfortunately, I sail with several of the people in other classes and am not going to be "the asshole". I just know it would not be worth it for me to do it.

Hence the onsite interviews; no one wants to be the asshole!

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Clean,

 

Maybe you can enlighten me. why would a class permit only a limited number of pros. I would think an all or nothing approach would work much better. As for cost, once you have adopted three, what's the other three? There are $500 a day pros out there starving while amatuer scabs eat up their payday.

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Clean,

 

Maybe you can enlighten me. why would a class permit only a limited number of pros. I would think an all or nothing approach would work much better. As for cost, once you have adopted three, what's the other three? There are $500 a day pros out there starving while amatuer scabs eat up their payday.

I think it is one part marketing tool that ISAF gave to influential builders, and one part actual cost containment. Many of the owners say that the rule does indeed work to keep their costs down and that they like it a lot, which means it is probably worth doing. But when we interviewed the tacticians at M32 Worlds, they almost unanimously say that the rule is administered very poorly and that the way it is written encourages creative accounting and outright lying. This post has the three-part Cocktail Hour we did with them, not sure which one focuses on the Cat Code, but it's all there. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php...t&p=2479491

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Read the rule, then explain how my initial classification is cat 2....and 12 months later...cat 2 with no change in my livelihood. Now I'm actually a 3 but haven't reclassified because I haven't sailed any "categorized" events since my career change.

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The stupid thing is that these classes are pretty much all small enough to administer their own database of pros and amateurs, and a class-elected or hired administrator would be far better qualified than Dobbs Davis or Anthony Matusch to make judgment calls. I think that is probably what the M32 class would do were it not an ISAF class, since ISAF actually requires you to use their classification code if you have any system of classification at all.

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Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...

 

if I had my druthers, they'd just get rid of the categories altogether...

I'd sail against pro's every day of the year if I could...

sooner or later, I'd learn something (I hope) -

 

Amen to that. ISAF steps in only because the owners can't control their spending. Sounds like a lot of other sports. Maybe a salary cap for regattas would work better.

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Read the rule, then explain how my initial classification is cat 2....and 12 months later...cat 2 with no change in my livelihood. Now I'm actually a 3 but haven't reclassified because I haven't sailed any "categorized" events since my career change.

Scowlover, you're based in Westport CT, do I know you?

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Cat 1: The best amateurs money can buy...

 

if I had my druthers, they'd just get rid of the categories altogether...

I'd sail against pro's every day of the year if I could...

sooner or later, I'd learn something (I hope) -

 

Are you paying the pro's wages/accomodation/travel ?

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.

Regards,

Crew

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.

Regards,

Crew

Could there be anything more pathetic than a "real" cat 3, cheating to become a cat 1? It is like that movie 'The Ringer" where Johny Knoxville fakes being retarded so he can win the special Olympics. I hate the catagories, I think they are elitist and allow "rich kids" to stay cat 1's for far longer than they should. ISAF is saying "if momma and daddy can support you, then you can have all of the opportunities at the top level. If you are unlucky enough to have to sand boat bottoms to do what you love, you're not allowed. Limiting the "difference makers" on a boat has some merit for some classes. But let's face it, the consequences of this rule is that you eliminate a lot of working people that love the sport and replace them with liars and rich kids.

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The stupid thing is that these classes are pretty much all small enough to administer their own database of pros and amateurs, and a class-elected or hired administrator would be far better qualified than Dobbs Davis or Anthony Matusch to make judgment calls. I think that is probably what the M32 class would do were it not an ISAF class, since ISAF actually requires you to use their classification code if you have any system of classification at all.

 

Clean, how was the ISAF involvement in Europe for the M32 worlds? It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.

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The stupid thing is that these classes are pretty much all small enough to administer their own database of pros and amateurs, and a class-elected or hired administrator would be far better qualified than Dobbs Davis or Anthony Matusch to make judgment calls. I think that is probably what the M32 class would do were it not an ISAF class, since ISAF actually requires you to use their classification code if you have any system of classification at all.

 

Clean, how was the ISAF involvement in Europe for the M32 worlds? It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.

 

Not really a good thing.

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... It seems like the euros take the categories (and most other rules) a lot less seriously.

 

WTF are you talking about ?

 

They push the rules hard and there is nothing wrong with that. I respect their sailing and prep, just wondering if there is a political difference between venues.

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.

Regards,

Crew

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

 

Bora Gulari

Jon Goldsberry

Marty Kullman

Johnny Lovell

Curtis Florence

Matt Noble

Alex Clegg

Philip Werheim

Chris Rast

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.

Regards,

Crew

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

 

Bora Gulari

Jon Goldsberry

Marty Kullman

Johnny Lovell

Curtis Florence

Matt Noble

Alex Clegg

Philip Werheim

Chris Rast

 

That list should be several names longer.

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Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

 

Bora Gulari

Jon Goldsberry

Marty Kullman

Johnny Lovell

Curtis Florence

Matt Noble

Alex Clegg

Philip Werheim

Chris Rast

 

It sucks that Bora has to keep going through this bullshit, but I can understand why. If you don't know the guy it's pretty hard to understand how he can live the life he does.

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If you don't know the guy it's pretty hard to understand how he can live the life he does.

That would be true except for the fact that ISAF has a file on him, he has explained how his family supports his sailing in writing, and Dobbs has had this conversation with him before. Twice.

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No. It means someone has complained and potentially offered some new information. There was one case last year where a lawyer had his research assistant digging into Cat 1's histories to try and get them reclassified.

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No. It means someone has complained and potentially offered some new information. There was one case last year where a lawyer had his research assistant digging into Cat 1's histories to try and get them reclassified.

How is that the fault of ISAF? So what if they have a case file on him and have interviewed him twice already. They are obliged to look into it, even if it is petty bullshit.

 

It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

 

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

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It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

 

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

 

Don't care if he is a Cat 1,2,3 or 12 I hate the guy on the general principle that he has the ablity to sail 365 days a year without getting paid. Therefore he doesn't have to take shit from an owner. Can walk whenever he wants. How fucken lucky can a guy get? :lol:

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It's pretty hard for most people to understand how Bora can spend 365 days/year doing nothing but sailing at his age without one of the 50 programs he races for paying his way. It is most certainly not normal and people who don't know him well are going to question it. He's a very unique individual and probably a bit of a mystery to the average guy reading a copy of Sailing World.

 

Think about it: The guy is on the cover of, or featured in, just about every sailing publication on the planet, hangs out with a well known pro 99% of the time, and doesn't appear to have a traditional job of any sort. It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

 

Don't care if he is a Cat 1,2,3 or 12 I hate the guy on the general principle that he has the ablity to sail 365 days a year without getting paid. Therefore he doesn't have to take shit from an owner. Can walk whenever he wants. How fucken lucky can a guy get? :lol:

 

And he dates some hot chicks... :DB):D

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It's hard to find a top level event in the US that he isn't at. It makes him an easy target.

 

 

Yeah, I reckon he's going to be the subject of witch hunts for a while. I'm sure by now he's got a template for dealing with these situations and the more and more ISAF goes after him and the more he proves them wrong and the more ISAF looks the fool. But I guess that nothing new to anyone.

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How some of these peole bold face lie about what they do/did for a living is beyond me. I know for a fact there are four cat 3's listed as 1's.

Then name names and say why they are 3s if it pisses you off so much.

Clean: now that is pretty funny. They are named. At least I know of three on the list posted in this thread (and two that are not). I have suggested to you before, take a investigative journalist approach, dig and you will get dirt. I will give you a hint: of those named who routinely sails with the man who coined the "best amateurs money can buy" or query Ed F about a certain boat mover, why don't you ask why a certain recipient of a country wide award could not travel back to that country to accept the award (now that would make for some interesting dirt)? How about another of the named that claims he lives at home and is a poor Cat 1 sailor but is seen repeatedly in boatyards up and down the East Coast working on a new (and former) TP 52 with posts on Facebook no less for a New Orleans owner. I agree with some of your grips that the rule is faulty, but that by no way excuses those that are cheating. As a journilist, if anyone is to do some "outing" one would expect it is you.

Regards,

Crew

Here's the list of those to be interviewed:

 

Bora Gulari

Jon Goldsberry

Marty Kullman

Johnny Lovell

Curtis Florence

Matt Noble

Alex Clegg

Philip Werheim

Chris Rast

 

That list should be several names longer.

 

Could we get Alex Jackson in there too since he's going to be there? Would be nice to see what's going on with his big boat and why she's not doing Sydney Hobart this year since everyone else is.

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Could we get Alex Jackson in there too since he's going to be there? Would be nice to see what's going on with his big boat and why she's not doing Sydney Hobart this year since everyone else is.

We'll try. Alex was very clear that he is an intensely private person when we asked last year. I don't think we even met him. But that list wasn't OUR interviews, it was ISAF's.

 

Let us know who else you'd like us to catch. We'll surely get Bora, and Bear, and Ullman, and Jonny G, and Matt N, and Johnny Lovell, and Ben Bardwell, and Molly and John Baxter, and Gavin Brady, and so on, and so on...

 

Post your questions here too.

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