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#1 Rhumb Runner

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 04:45 PM

I don't have a lot of brightwork on my J/29. But some the toe rails could use some attention. I like to keep her looking good but I'm on a tight budget. Before I dig deep and shell out $40 bucks or more for a quart true marine varnish (z spar). Will I get year or so out of the outdoor spar varnishs I can get from Home Depot for less than $20? Anyone have horror stories from using the cheep stuff? I know that even the best stuff won't hold up if the prep is not done right. But is the expensive stuff really that much better? West Marine has a special on the z-spar 1015 captains until tomorrow and although I really don't have the $$$ it's a good deal and the rails need to get done in the next month or so. Bottom line... Spend the extra $$$ now or wait and use the cheep stuff?

#2 sam_crocker

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 08:57 PM

Get some Epiphanes instead.

 

It will last, but the best thing is it's a very forgiving varnish.  It smooths out well and looks great.  You need multiple coats if you want it to last.  5-7 coats is best for outdoor first application.  Then a couple coats every year.



#3 sailman

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 10:43 PM

Get Total Boat Lust. Outstanding product. Easy to apply, you can reapply after one hour with no sanding. So in a day you can nail down six to eight coats.

#4 SloopJonB

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 10:59 PM

Epiphanes is the best I've used to date.



#5 USA 236

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 11:25 PM

Home Depot Spar Varnish from Minwax is PolyUrethane, Epiphanes is actual varnish. Poly will flake off over time. Spend the 20 bucks more.

#6 Mrleft8

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 12:06 PM

Epiphanes is the worst varnish I've ever used (And I've used a lot.). Takes forever to dry, sags, coats unevenly, and you have to put on 7-8 coats for a durable finish.

My favorite is Benjamin Moore 440 spar varnish. Builds fast, flows beautifully, and you can be done with 3-4 coats. Thin your first coat 50/50 with turpentine (Not paint thinner), then straight out of the can from there.



#7 LionessRacing

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Posted 16 April 2017 - 12:39 PM

Epiphanes.

It takes a bit of skill to apply. It costs a bit more per quart, the results are worth it.

Like Mobil One oil, when the builders who are not price conscious use it, why would you choose otherwise ?

What is your leisure time worth ?

Don't use cheap materials & tools with expensive labor, it's a false economy.

#8 kinardly

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 10:04 PM

Epiphanes.

It takes a bit of skill to apply. It costs a bit more per quart, the results are worth it.

Like Mobil One oil, when the builders who are not price conscious use it, why would you choose otherwise ?

What is your leisure time worth ?

Don't use cheap materials & tools with expensive labor, it's a false economy.

 

This! Been there, done that. Also, I don't believe one 50/50 thinned coat will seal the grain properly and prevent lifting. You need multiple, maybe three coats of 20% varnish:thinner, then sand and three more coats out of the can, sand and put on a final coat, Then redo every six months if anywhere near latitude 32. 8-12 mos if at higher. 

 

I'm going to go with a 2 pack poly on my toerails. It will be my first experience with it but the folks here on SA who seem to know say it makes a big difference in terms of durability. Captains is very forgiving and I've had reasonably good results but I wouldn't expect more than six months out of doors from it. But don't put it on during a sunny day or you'll get lizard skin from the outside drying faster than the inside.



#9 silent bob

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Posted 17 April 2017 - 10:54 PM

Epiphanes is the worst varnish I've ever used (And I've used a lot.). Takes forever to dry, sags, coats unevenly, and you have to put on 7-8 coats for a durable finish.

My favorite is Benjamin Moore 440 spar varnish. Builds fast, flows beautifully, and you can be done with 3-4 coats. Thin your first coat 50/50 with turpentine (Not paint thinner), then straight out of the can from there.

 

Every Dog has their day.  My projects with Epifanes came out beautiful.  I did use it in a controlled environment.  The only problem that I encountered was due to User Error, I went back to touch up a holiday and it dragged.  Cleaned it up, so that I have to look for the bad spot.  I made sure my Prep Work was great, my application was good.  Keep exposed parts under a cover,  Will last a very long time!



#10 Will 1073

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 03:38 AM

I'm just going to say it...

 

Cetol.



#11 CaptainAhab

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 06:59 AM

Home Depot Spar Varnish from Minwax is PolyUrethane, Epiphanes is actual varnish. Poly will flake off over time. Spend the 20 bucks more.

The fact that its poly has little or nothing to do with its absolutely shite performance in an exterior environment. Forget using it on a boat. It fails quickly on an exterior door. Minwax Helmsman has very little UV protection.



#12 LionessRacing

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 11:59 AM

I'm just going to say it...
 
Cetol.


Flakes off in sheets after 5-6 yrs.

#13 Py26129

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:18 PM

Cetol is doing that on my boat, in a few places, now, but so is the Epiphanes on my buddy's boat



#14 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:24 PM

Regardless of which you choose, preparation is key to good adhesion.    There's a reason that the marine varnishes are more expensive, and IMHO most of the big names are of suitable performance, choose the one that has application, performance, and color properties that best suit your needs.  I like Epiphanes, with a couple thinned coats first to seal the grain, but I'll caveat my opinion by also saying that I like very minimal bright work work. 



#15 nobody.really

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 04:11 PM

Here is a non-varnish option. Remove all the varnish (which you will probably be doing anyway) and use Semco. You will have to wipe some on twice a year to keep the teak looking good but it takes very little time. Your toe rails will have a matte finish but still be water proof. No varnish skills required. Not to everyone's taste but low maintenance and low effort.



#16 Varan

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:22 AM

So what's your preference over carbon fiber?

#17 pasta514

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:22 AM

What's the best varnish to use over epoxy clear coated wood?



#18 silent bob

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 05:33 AM

What's the best varnish to use over epoxy clear coated wood?


I used Epifanes. Came out gorgeous on my floorboards and tiller. I do keep the tiller covered when not in use.

#19 jimsair

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:25 AM

 

Epiphanes.

It takes a bit of skill to apply. It costs a bit more per quart, the results are worth it.

Like Mobil One oil, when the builders who are not price conscious use it, why would you choose otherwise ?

What is your leisure time worth ?

Don't use cheap materials & tools with expensive labor, it's a false economy.

 

This! Been there, done that. Also, I don't believe one 50/50 thinned coat will seal the grain properly and prevent lifting. You need multiple, maybe three coats of 20% varnish:thinner, then sand and three more coats out of the can, sand and put on a final coat, Then redo every six months if anywhere near latitude 32. 8-12 mos if at higher. 

 

I'm going to go with a 2 pack poly on my toerails. It will be my first experience with it but the folks here on SA who seem to know say it makes a big difference in terms of durability. Captains is very forgiving and I've had reasonably good results but I wouldn't expect more than six months out of doors from it. But don't put it on during a sunny day or you'll get lizard skin from the outside drying faster than the inside.

 

What 2-pack Poly do you use on wood? I'm familiar with Awl-wood, but that is not a 2-pack.



#20 Lex Teredo

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:36 PM

So which religion is better?



#21 Will 1073

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:12 PM

So which religion is better?


Cult of Cetol

#22 Py26129

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:04 PM

As long as we don't drink it, it's all ok!



#23 sailman

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:53 PM

Presently doing several small varnish jobs using Total Boat Lust and Total Boat Penetrating Epoxy.  Fantastic products.  Much easier to apply than Epiphanes with, for me, the same results and durability.



#24 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:18 PM

Presently doing several small varnish jobs using Total Boat Lust and Total Boat Penetrating Epoxy.  Fantastic products.  Much easier to apply than Epiphanes with, for me, the same results and durability.

 

What make's the application better than Epifanes?   Not picking - seriously interested, as I've never used those. 



#25 sailman

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:41 PM

guy,  I used the penetrating epoxy on an interior table.  It is a simple 2:1 mix and one to two applications is all that is needed to start off.  It has no UV resistance so you need to apply varnish with UV inhibitors.  The nice thing about it is that you have a 24 hour window to apply varnish without sanding.  The Lust Varnish, if you are going over the epoxy doesn't need to be thinned.  It flows nicely and you can apply a new coat after an hour or up to 24 hours with out sanding.  You can get several coats on in one day, great time saver.



#26 Diamond Jim

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:44 AM

Epifanes

 

image004.jpg



#27 Varan

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:28 AM

Epifanes
 
image004.jpg

The bow really did fall off..

#28 CaptainAhab

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:09 AM

Epifanes

 

image004.jpg

Its all good until it gets wet and you slip out of the fuckin thing.

 

One of my buddies did that to a 21ft antique racing boat. After the first race I told him to put down 3m nonskid tape or I wouldn't sail again. The next week we had black nonskid tape. It was a nice contrast with the varnished wood.



#29 WoobaGooba

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:34 PM

I'm about to strip and refinish teak / holly veneer sole. Prior 2-3 coats of Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane held up well for 10 years.

 

But, shocking, I am in a spring launch rush and pressed for time.  Any insight into how the Lust will hold up on a cabin sole?

 

Thanks



#30 sailman

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:39 PM

That I do not know, I have used it on railings, hand holds and tables. Give JD a call, their tech support is very good.

#31 Diamond Jim

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:56 PM

 

Epifanes

 

image004.jpg

Its all good until it gets wet and you slip out of the fuckin thing.

 

One of my buddies did that to a 21ft antique racing boat. After the first race I told him to put down 3m nonskid tape or I wouldn't sail again. The next week we had black nonskid tape. It was a nice contrast with the varnished wood.

 

The pram's floorboards are unfinished Alaska White Cedar.

There are ways to make varnish nonskid.



#32 USA 236

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 03:26 PM

Epiphanies on my tiller and petit captains varnish on my floor boards. The captains is a satin finish and very hard wearing.




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