Jump to content


Opinions on Alerion Express 38-1


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:30 AM

I'm looking for a family friendly cruiser/ racer. My wife is due with our first in September. Our sailing will mostly be me sailing and my wife watching the kid or just enjoying herself on the boat. She likes coming with me sailing but doesn't really want to do any of the sailing and is especially put off by racing. I currently race on a Soverel 33, but would like to start driving my own boat in some of the more casual races, as well as some weekend cruising. I am on the western end of Lake Erie. The Alerion Express 38-1 is the first boat my wife showed any real interest in, and the jib boom fits with my intended use. The wife's requirements are a "real" head, a gally good for more than making coffee, and preferably stand up headroom. She is 5'11". The practical sailor review list the AE 38 as having 6'1/2" headroom. I'm 6'1". I'm also considering a J/32 or a new Beneteau First 25. They J/32 seems like a nice little cruising boat with good performance, but is not set up for single handing like the AE38. I'm tempted by the First 25 because of its simple design with no backstay and a tiller. The swing keel would be a nice shallow draft feature for Lake Erie as well. With it being new and so much smaller, it just feels like a lot less to be responsible for. Am I on the right track with the AE38? Any other boats I should be considering?
Thanks.
Ethan

#2 Tom Scott

Tom Scott

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,592 posts
  • Location:Punta Gorda, FL

Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:42 AM

I think you should not buy a boat until your child is at least five years old.

Your life is about to change dramatically in the next few months, and a new big boat is going to distract you (..and divert resources and time) from what is truly important.



#3 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,934 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:13 AM

I think you should buy a boat as soon as possible, before it is no longer possible.

 

Your life is about to change dramatically in the next few months, and a new big boat is going to keep you sane.



#4 Raz'r

Raz'r

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,233 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:33 AM

They're both right.

With baby, go alerion

#5 Alex W

Alex W

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,845 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Interests:sailboats, bikes, metalworking, diy

Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:50 AM

I'm a brand new dad with a newish boat and say get a boat.

Maybe something a little smaller though? Sunfast 3200 or J/97e?

#6 Fleetwood

Fleetwood

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 696 posts
  • Location:Oz
  • Interests:Fewer every year

Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:27 AM

Kids are fine on boats till about 18 months or so (put them in their car seats), when they start being (excessively) mobile. Difficult then till they get to 4-5yrs when they (sometimes) can do as they are told (get a harness and a short tether).

Get a boat. If you wait till they're mobile you'll never get one.

Get one you can singlehand in all circumstances.



#7 Kris Cringle

Kris Cringle

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:08 AM

Get a boat. Not only will the baby adapt to it instantly, your partner will likely appreciate the get-away from it all that only a boat can provide(mine valued that time above everything).

 

Sure, you'll be sailing the boat by yourself and she'll be more fully engaged in tending to the package, but you three will be doing that together. 

 

We sailed with two babies, back to back. All four of us often say, it was the best thing we did as a family. 



#8 Jim in Halifax

Jim in Halifax

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 497 posts
  • Location:Nova Scotia
  • Interests:All things sailing. All things jazz and recording. Most things musical. Old British cars.

Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

Yes, get the boat now. There are lots of ways to make a boat baby and kid friendly. When they are infants, its basically the same strategy as in a car. Once they get mobile, tethers, netting on the lifelines, lee clothes on the berths and other solutions go a long way to making junior safe. Several books written on the subject - Babies Aboard is one. The important thing for the boat selection is that it is set up to be sailed by one, as you will be solo-sailing much of the time even though your spouse is aboard.



#9 sow1ld

sow1ld

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 125 posts
  • Location:mana new zealand
  • Interests:Yachts yachting yacht design

Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

Get a boat now but be prepared to only use it (initally) on clam warm days..even if you just pull the headsail out and drift around thats all it needs to be until the three of you find your feet.
Babys adapt so quickly youl be amazed. Id def say a stiff boat you can single hander with a furling headsail. Everytime you go out enjoy having ur family out on the water with you.
I had to sell my 1 tonner as it was just me & my 2yr old boy it was just too hard.so ive joined the darkside and brought a launch.
Sail safe pick your weather, congrats and enjoy what ever boat you get

#10 Veeger

Veeger

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,501 posts
  • Location:Anacortes, Wa

Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:46 PM

My wife and your wife came out of the same mold (let me ride, screw that racing thing, I just need to nap)  For kids and wives, the Alerion 38's low, no, bridge deck and traveller out of the cockpit are great features.  When my kids were little, the youngest slept in her umbrella stroller beside the centerboard trunk, safely chocked for either tack yet visible from the cockpit of our catboat.  It was all good. 



#11 Bull City

Bull City

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,759 posts
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Interests:monthly Social Security check, oil painting, martinis

Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:14 PM

^^ +1

 

Get the Alerion.



#12 Slim

Slim

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,016 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:29 PM

Oh man, Alerion all the way. You''ll have about 6 monhs after the kid is born that will be easy Then it gets tougher and more stressful, but so will everything.



#13 slap

slap

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,627 posts
  • Location:Somewhat near Naptown

Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:14 PM

Big difference in the cost of the three boats you mentioned.  And big difference in the yearly costs, too.



#14 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,143 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:40 PM

Wyliecat 30? One sail. Everything closer.

Marshall Catboat?

Docking essentially by yourself may prove valuable.

Catamaran? Large bridge deck-

#15 HuronBuoy

HuronBuoy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 209 posts
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:sailing skiing whiskey

Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:00 PM

The first time my wife stepped on a sailboat I had already bought it, I also like running with scissors in hands.

Lucky for me she liked it and she even comes out on races now.  

Not the best advice but FWIW it may give you courage to take the plunge..... Oh and we had a 4 year old and 1 year old at the time.



#16 Hawaiidart

Hawaiidart

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 365 posts
  • Location:Honolulu

Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:23 PM

We bought our first sailboat (Catalina 22; most fun we've had on the water) when our daughter was an infant.  She grew up in junior sailing, went on to collegiate sailing, coached sailing at Brisbane Boys College and now her 6 year old is signed up for the Tackers program at RQYS.  I don't regret a thing!



#17 RedRyder

RedRyder

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 254 posts
  • Location:Connecticut

Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:42 PM

Oh man, Alerion all the way. You''ll have about 6 monhs after the kid is born that will be easy Then it gets tougher and more stressful, but so will everything.

 

Alerion all the way: Yes.

...about 6 months: Ummm... the first 12 months were a sleep-deprived horror show. Having the boat then might have helped. Or not.

Keep it in a marina. Expensive, but cheaper than divorce.



#18 squiby

squiby

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 47 posts
  • Location:squibnocket
  • Interests:surf sail bike and repeat

Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:22 PM

I thought the Alerion doesn't have full standing headroom. With a low freeboard, you can only raise the cabin top so far before it all looks out of proportion. Best to get onboard and double check. I was hot for the J/124 until I got on one and experienced the limited 5'8? headroom.

 

Their giant mainsails and tiny jibs look a bit awkward to me but I still think the Alerion is a pretty boat. But they don't look as good when rigged with a dodger. Since I like sun and spray protection, I'm only interested in a boat if she still looks good when the canvas is up. 



#19 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,143 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:36 PM

The whole boats a big crib. Folks have sailed them to Greenland!!!:)

http://www.marshallc...arshall_22.html

#20 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,143 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:52 PM

Couldn't resist - first video towards the end, good family sailing shot

http://www.marshallc...ideo_clips.html

Great boat porn if nothing else-

The second vid really spotlights family sailing

#21 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:00 AM

It sounds like I'm on the right track with the Alerion 38.  The plan was always to buy the boat before having children, and my wife is still on board with the plan.

 

I did look for some other boats that are set up for single handing.  The Nonsuch's look like nice cruising boats but just don't do it for me.  My wife and I chartered a Wyliecat 30 on our honeymoon, and I did look for one on Yachtworld but did not see anything. There are two Jeanneau 3200's up on Yachtworld.  Both are in California, and a little more than I was looking to spend.  I was hopping to stay around (or under) 75k.  I did not see any J/97's for sale in the US.

 

I just got off the phone with the broker for this Alerion 38.  It is suffering from gel coat cracking like any other TPI built boat from 98 to 2004.  What are your thoughts?  What is involved in fixing the gel coat issues, and how soon would they need to be fixed?

 

http://www.yachtworl...es#.WPfuIdIrKUn



#22 slap

slap

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,627 posts
  • Location:Somewhat near Naptown

Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:34 AM

It sounds like I'm on the right track with the Alerion 38.  The plan was always to buy the boat before having children, and my wife is still on board with the plan.

 

I did look for some other boats that are set up for single handing.  The Nonsuch's look like nice cruising boats but just don't do it for me.  My wife and I chartered a Wyliecat 30 on our honeymoon, and I did look for one on Yachtworld but did not see anything. There are two Jeanneau 3200's up on Yachtworld.  Both are in California, and a little more than I was looking to spend.  I was hopping to stay around (or under) 75k.  I did not see any J/97's for sale in the US.

 

I just got off the phone with the broker for this Alerion 38.  It is suffering from gel coat cracking like any other TPI built boat from 98 to 2004.  What are your thoughts?  What is involved in fixing the gel coat issues, and how soon would they need to be fixed?

 

http://www.yachtworl...es#.WPfuIdIrKUn

 

That boat started out on Yachtworld last year at $135K.



#23 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:43 AM

That's quite the delta. Is it even a reparable issue?

#24 crash

crash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,633 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:27 AM

Gel coat is cosmetic...maybe low ball the guy and just live with it?  Doesn't have any impact on how the boat sails...



#25 Raz'r

Raz'r

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,233 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Rum

Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:33 AM

Cosmetic. Fix it in 5 years. Or dont

#26 Grey Dawn

Grey Dawn

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 516 posts
  • Location:Annapolis
  • Interests:Spouse, Sailing, Science, Skiing, Snorkeling, Scuba, Swirl, Sniff, Sip, Swallow, Savor

Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:37 PM

The boat is a beauty. If it surveys well, go for it.



#27 Student_Driver

Student_Driver

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • Location:Cos Cob Harbor
  • Interests:Enjoying the inter-glacial while it lasts...

Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:05 PM

I was on that boat at the broker last summer. Nice boat.



#28 Cruisin Loser

Cruisin Loser

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,146 posts
  • Location:West Texas, Taos, New England
  • Interests:Sailing, Skiing, Rock Climbing, Palindromic Prime Numbers, Blues Guitar, and the most fascinating person on earth - my Wife.

Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:41 PM

I've been aboard one on the east coast. A smallish 38', but you know that. Sails well. Cockpit is excellent for a mom and kiddo - deep and secure. As I recall the cockpit benches are long enough to sleep on.

 

With good lee cloths on the settees, it should be a great boat for mom and kid. This is important, as the child need a very secure place to nap, or no one will be happy.



#29 fufkin

fufkin

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 372 posts
  • Location:trying to find it on google earth
  • Interests:none

Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:28 PM

The Alerion looks pretty sweet but I'm not a big fan of the daisy cutter jib set up. The 'daisy cutter' is the nickname for a bomb that effectively sends shrapnel 360 deg at leg level, sparing the vital organs.

Somewhere along the way stuff gets tangled up. Hopefully not everyday but it can happen. Wouldn't want that boomed jib flailing around while I'm trying to untangle something in a hurry (solo), and even if you had to kneel down and grab a tangled line your head is now at boom height.

Not a deal breaker but is it 'that' much more convenient than an easily managed yankee or something similar?

#30 crash

crash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,633 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:58 PM

fufkin,

We wouldn't want to actually have to release one sheet and tail on the other to tack our boat now would we? :rolleyes:

 

Both the early boats track across the top of the cabin and the later boats Hoyt jib boom ruin what would otherwise be a pretty neat boat in my mind...those small jibs just aren't that hard to tack.  If its too hard to do, buy a stinkin' power boat!

 

That said, if you're gonna run off the wind with a jib only, the Hoyt boom will keep good shape in the jib...



#31 Black Jack

Black Jack

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 761 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:09 PM

There is always an A28. That leave you lots in your budget to B&Bs, hotels with baby sitters and much more (this point should not be underrated).  Moreover you will always find a slip close to where you want to be that evening, for the long season or a simple lunch tie up at the club. 

 

The extra savings could mean a motorcycle which your mother-in-law will ask you to sell right after the baby's birth.



#32 Jim in Halifax

Jim in Halifax

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 497 posts
  • Location:Nova Scotia
  • Interests:All things sailing. All things jazz and recording. Most things musical. Old British cars.

Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:10 PM

The Alerion looks pretty sweet but I'm not a big fan of the daisy cutter jib set up. The 'daisy cutter' is the nickname for a bomb that effectively sends shrapnel 360 deg at leg level, sparing the vital organs.

Somewhere along the way stuff gets tangled up. Hopefully not everyday but it can happen. Wouldn't want that boomed jib flailing around while I'm trying to untangle something in a hurry (solo), and even if you had to kneel down and grab a tangled line your head is now at boom height.

Not a deal breaker but is it 'that' much more convenient than an easily managed yankee or something similar?

On my cutter I have a Yankee jib and a 'daisy cutter' staysail. You do have to be very aware of that little boom when you're up on the foredeck with the wind abaft abeam. BUT when you are sailing short-handed upwind, the self-tacking headsail is a dream - never have to touch a sheet, just "ready about, helm's down". (In my case, only if the Yankee is furled, which is the case once the breeze gets up).



#33 kdh

kdh

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,568 posts

Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:47 PM

Get a boat. Not only will the baby adapt to it instantly, your partner will likely appreciate the get-away from it all that only a boat can provide(mine valued that time above everything).
 
Sure, you'll be sailing the boat by yourself and she'll be more fully engaged in tending to the package, but you three will be doing that together. 
 
We sailed with two babies, back to back. All four of us often say, it was the best thing we did as a family.


I have great memories of sailing with my daughter when she was little. To her it's just part of living.

#34 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,143 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:37 AM

I put on a Hoyt jib boom last year. It is totally sweet, esp downwind

Wait! No jib and jigger? On a 38? What are you thinking? And a wife? And a kid?

;)

#35 austin1972

austin1972

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,935 posts
  • Location:Sandwich, IL

Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:26 PM

 

just "ready about, helm's down".

 

That is totally unknown to me. Is that a normal call? I would have to pause and figure that out.

Is hard to lee (hardalee) dead? Is gybe ho gone?

 

Did I just get old?



#36 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,143 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:58 PM

'Helm's a lee' & 'Helm to weather' here.

I wonder how many versions there are?

#37 Bull City

Bull City

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,759 posts
  • Location:North Carolina
  • Interests:monthly Social Security check, oil painting, martinis

Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:15 PM

Tacking while single handing my H-Boat is a breeze since the winches are right at hand. This was not the case on my J22; it was a PITA, because the winches were on the cabin top. 



#38 kdh

kdh

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,568 posts

Posted 22 April 2017 - 11:22 PM

 

 

just "ready about, helm's down".

 

That is totally unknown to me. Is that a normal call? I would have to pause and figure that out.

Is hard to lee (hardalee) dead? Is gybe ho gone?

 

Did I just get old?

 

 

Austin this is what I've always done, will always do (hard a lee, gybe ho).



#39 austin1972

austin1972

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,935 posts
  • Location:Sandwich, IL

Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:32 AM

Thank god. Ready about? Hard to lee (hardalee).

Ready to gybe? Gybe ho and go go go!

 

I love a perfect gybe. It's like being good at sex. You can't always do it, but when you do - it's something to behold.

 

Then you wonder how the hell that just happened.



#40 TwoLegged

TwoLegged

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,302 posts

Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:56 AM

I put on a Hoyt jib boom last year. It is totally sweet, esp downwind

 
I would love to see some photos of Amati with the Hoyt jib boom

#41 Jim in Halifax

Jim in Halifax

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 497 posts
  • Location:Nova Scotia
  • Interests:All things sailing. All things jazz and recording. Most things musical. Old British cars.

Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:53 AM

 

 

just "ready about, helm's down".

 

That is totally unknown to me. Is that a normal call? I would have to pause and figure that out.

Is hard to lee (hardalee) dead? Is gybe ho gone?

 

Did I just get old?

 

Austin, just another dialect of sailor's language, I guess. When I grew up sailing dinghies, "Hard-a-lee" and "Helm's down" were used interchangeably. Maybe the ghosts of the former Royal Navy base linger around my area, but "Helm's down" is used a lot around here. Both are essentially the helmsman's reporting of what the tiller position is, during a tack. Put yourself on the quarter deck with Nelson and his midshipman: "Ready about?" "Aye, sir." "Tack ship." "Helm's down, sir..."  And Nelson's crew would "wear ship" - the manoeuvre on a square-rigged ship - rather than gybing, which is the term for fore-and-aft rigs. The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea is a wonderful read for anyone into marine pedantry.



#42 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,611 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 24 April 2017 - 03:22 PM

Thank god. Ready about? Coming about, Hard to lee (hardalee), mast to beam (mastabeam).
Ready to gybe? Gybe ho and go go go!
 
I love a perfect gybe. It's like being good at sex. You can't always do it, but when you do - it's something to behold.
 
Then you wonder how the hell that just happened.


#imwithya

#43 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:26 AM

I got some pictures of the gelcoat cracking/crazing from the dealer yesterday. I think I could put up with it. I can post some pictures when I'm in front of a computer. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good surveyor in the Long Island Sound area?

I did look at a few AE 28's. They are a little smaller interior and cockpit wise than I'm looking for, and seem over priced for how much boat you get.

#44 mtn_matt

mtn_matt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 60 posts
  • Location:Annapolis, MD
  • Interests:sailing, snowsports, stuff building.

Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:24 AM

Whichever boat you decide on, its got to be convenient. Pay the extra bit for a good slip. Set it up so you can leave the dock in minutes. Have the gear ready to go at all times. Expect that some outings will be a measured in hours, others in minutes.

 

With a little one, little excuses to not go sailing turn into big excuses. If its part of your routine it will happen and the baby will adapt.



#45 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 25 April 2017 - 12:57 PM

My expectations for the first couple of years are that most outings will be an afternoon sail followed by dinner at the club, with a couple of overnight trips out to Put-in-Bay.

Attached Files



#46 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 25 April 2017 - 12:59 PM

More pictures of gelcoat issues.

Attached Files



#47 Ethan K

Ethan K

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Ann Arbor MI

Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:00 PM

Last two pictures.

Attached Files






1 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users