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New Cubed - First Supermaxi Since Speedboat

jim clark vplp supermaxi verdier record breaker offshore

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#101 Captain Jack Sparrow

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:30 AM

Powered or manual winches? Surely powered, but there looks to be pedestal bases in the most recent photo?
 
HW


Nope, they're only manual. Lighter and eligible for records in all races and passages.

One would think though that the grinders they have to carry for races like the Sydney to Hobart will weigh more than the motors and batteries for power winches. On the other hand, grinders are moveable useful ballast on the rail when not grinding..

#102 umpire

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 06:12 AM

Powered or manual winches? Surely powered, but there looks to be pedestal bases in the most recent photo?
 
HW

Manual.

#103 Sarc

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 08:44 AM

Powered or manual winches? Surely powered, but there looks to be pedestal bases in the most recent photo?

 

HW

I think the original idea was to have fully human control.

I assume they'll have the option for powered deliveries?



#104 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:45 PM

According to Kenny, when I spoke to him before Clark's presentation months ago (which is available via FP search or USSailing Youtube), they are likely to have a single powered winch to raise sails.  That has not changed, as of a few weeks ago.

 

Otherwise, it's all manual.



#105 Potter

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 04:08 PM

Powered or manual winches? Surely powered, but there looks to be pedestal bases in the most recent photo?

 

HW

Manual. a) so they can go for the record runs B) weight (grinders can be put on the rail.



#106 edusail

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:19 PM

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  Also, I spoke with a guy who is planning on sailing on New3 and they think they will sail with the same amount of crew as Wild Oats or the other powered 100's as you need the boys to lug stuff around anyway even on the push button boats.  May as well put them on the pumps if they are there.  They plan on sailing with about 20 as the others sail with.



#107 mad

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:30 PM

According to Kenny, when I spoke to him before Clark's presentation months ago (which is available via FP search or USSailing Youtube), they are likely to have a single powered winch to raise sails.  That has not changed, as of a few weeks ago.
 
Otherwise, it's all manual.


So that still puts them in the same class as WOXI etc.....???

#108 jc172528

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:04 PM

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  Also, I spoke with a guy who is planning on sailing on New3 and they think they will sail with the same amount of crew as Wild Oats or the other powered 100's as you need the boys to lug stuff around anyway even on the push button boats.  May as well put them on the pumps if they are there.  They plan on sailing with about 20 as the others sail with.

 

Don't forget you need to fuel the grinders, big lads, high work rate, lots a calories. Although less prone to breakdown. 



#109 haligonian winterr

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:38 AM

Freeze dried is light...

 

HW

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  Also, I spoke with a guy who is planning on sailing on New3 and they think they will sail with the same amount of crew as Wild Oats or the other powered 100's as you need the boys to lug stuff around anyway even on the push button boats.  May as well put them on the pumps if they are there.  They plan on sailing with about 20 as the others sail with.

 

Don't forget you need to fuel the grinders, big lads, high work rate, lots a calories. Although less prone to breakdown. 



#110 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:12 AM

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  

 

Tons?  



#111 Mexican

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:02 AM

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  

 

Tons?  

It's a unit of weight equivalent to 2000 pounds or .907 metric ton.



#112 Sarc

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 05:42 AM

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  

 

Tons?  

It's a unit of weight equivalent to 2000 pounds or .907 metric ton.

bravo



#113 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:47 PM

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  

 

Tons?  

It's a unit of weight equivalent to 2000 pounds or .907 metric ton.

 

only in the US

 

a ton where you come from is 2,240 pounds

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_ton

 

so wheres this Cube boat? 



#114 jc172528

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 11:18 PM

Freeze dried is light...

 

HW

 

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  Also, I spoke with a guy who is planning on sailing on New3 and they think they will sail with the same amount of crew as Wild Oats or the other powered 100's as you need the boys to lug stuff around anyway even on the push button boats.  May as well put them on the pumps if they are there.  They plan on sailing with about 20 as the others sail with.

 

Don't forget you need to fuel the grinders, big lads, high work rate, lots a calories. Although less prone to breakdown. 

without water....



#115 haligonian winterr

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:35 PM

Are they required to carry all of their water for the race? No Idea just wondering.

 

HW

 

 

Freeze dried is light...

 

HW

 

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  Also, I spoke with a guy who is planning on sailing on New3 and they think they will sail with the same amount of crew as Wild Oats or the other powered 100's as you need the boys to lug stuff around anyway even on the push button boats.  May as well put them on the pumps if they are there.  They plan on sailing with about 20 as the others sail with.

 

Don't forget you need to fuel the grinders, big lads, high work rate, lots a calories. Although less prone to breakdown. 

without water....



#116 Sailbydate

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:39 PM

Are they required to carry all of their water for the race? No Idea just wondering.

 

HW

 

 

 

Freeze dried is light...

 

HW

 

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  Also, I spoke with a guy who is planning on sailing on New3 and they think they will sail with the same amount of crew as Wild Oats or the other powered 100's as you need the boys to lug stuff around anyway even on the push button boats.  May as well put them on the pumps if they are there.  They plan on sailing with about 20 as the others sail with.

 

Don't forget you need to fuel the grinders, big lads, high work rate, lots a calories. Although less prone to breakdown. 

without water....

Why carry it, when you're floating in the stuff - desalination.



#117 haligonian winterr

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:09 PM

That's what I mean, desal water then you just have to carry freeze dried, snickers and Sour Patch Kids...

 

HW

 

 

Are they required to carry all of their water for the race? No Idea just wondering.

 

HW

 

 

 

without water....

Why carry it, when you're floating in the stuff - desalination.



#118 Kenny Dumas

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:19 PM

Gonna need jacklines and rappel gear to cross the cockpit. 



#119 Sailbydate

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:41 AM

Gonna need jacklines and rappel gear to cross the cockpit. 

"Just duck down leeward and make sure we're clear. I'll help you climb back up".  :wacko:



#120 jc172528

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 12:42 AM

That's what I mean, desal water then you just have to carry freeze dried, snickers and Sour Patch Kids...

 

HW

 

 

 

Are they required to carry all of their water for the race? No Idea just wondering.

 

HW

 

 

without water....

Why carry it, when you're floating in the stuff - desalination.

 

Weight? Desal unit plus spares or even spare unit that will service what, 20 thirsty crew plus water for cooking.

I just wonder what the actual weight saving is, powered winches plus fuel vs food plus desal unit/water storage?



#121 wildboats

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 06:47 AM

gonna be embarrassing when alllllll the trillions are spent and the shitload of tailwind this Cadillac is designed for never arrives on boxing day - WOXI will kick it's arse like all before her



#122 2XD

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 02:57 AM

gonna be embarrassing when alllllll the trillions are spent and the shitload of tailwind this Cadillac is designed for never arrives on boxing day - WOXI will kick it's arse like all before her

lol not as embarrassing as 2009 when Alfa Romeo the sister ship flogged woxi to hobart (2hrs is a flogging), oh and Investec Loyal 2011 (3mins not a flogging but considering the boat embarrassing) who beat woxi as well.

 

oats is good but it just takes a good boat and well tuned crew. not unbeatable



#123 DickDastardly

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:39 AM

gonna be embarrassing when alllllll the trillions are spent and the shitload of tailwind this Cadillac is designed for never arrives on boxing day - WOXI will kick it's arse like all before her

lol not as embarrassing as 2009 when Alfa Romeo the sister ship flogged woxi to hobart (2hrs is a flogging), oh and Investec Loyal 2011 (3mins not a flogging but considering the boat embarrassing) who beat woxi as well.

 

oats is good but it just takes a good boat and well tuned crew. not unbeatable

+1  Good as they are - and they are, and superbly funded, WOXI hasn't really had serious competition to Hobart since Alfa disappeared.  The Loyal victory in 2011 was totally against the odds.  

 

Perpetual Loyal is a serious contender but far less versatile than WOXI, fresh out of the box last year and hasn't raced since so not a lot of program "memory" there, whereas WOXI has had the same core team in place for many many years.  

 

I'd share scepticism that this new monster would survive a hard upwind blow in one piece - but it comes down to the engineering, new boat glitches and the crew's ability to keep it together.  I'd doubt there will be any reservations on the crew side - the best $$$ can buy no doubt. I assume the core program team is well experienced over many campaigns but a brand new boat that pushes the envelope this hard will always be a risk factor.



#124 wildboats

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:53 AM

Oh yeah thats right she lost two races once upon a time ... . .. .  _)

isn't any room in the trophy case anyway.

 

seriously - It's great to see someone other than Bob getting involved in a big big way and push the boundaries with an open cheque book - I'm looking forward to it - the more big boats the better.



#125 2XD

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:01 AM

yep twice. the first time by a sistership that gave them a sailing lesson.

 

the 2nd time by some outside chance that no one rated as a chance.

 

many of the years she won there was little or no competition.

 

you made the bold statement  "kicked everyones arse, like all before" or some delusional shit, not sorry for calling you on it



#126 tekwa

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 09:36 PM

When Loayal beaten them, it was after not well tried modification (with no front rudder the code zero was dragging it sideways like crazy)

Last time they used the new DSS for the first time in the race and the new rig went it pretty late as well and failed.

Time to learn from your own mistakes I would say, otherwise ....:-)



#127 TPG

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 10:23 PM

yep twice. the first time by a sistership that gave them a sailing lesson.

 

Fair is fair, 05 WOXI put over an hour on Alfa. So they're even.  :P



#128 PIL007

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 11:40 PM

WOXI copied and had the luxury to change and improve on Alfa on that first encounter.......They had the path paved so to speak.

Had they raced outside of OZ on the world circuit against Croaky for those years, I suspect the score card would look very different.......all specublather though.

They are both all conquering and a credit to the designer and builder......



#129 wildboats

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:10 AM

yep twice. the first time by a sistership that gave them a sailing lesson.

 

Fair is fair, 05 WOXI put over an hour on Alfa. So they're even.  :P

and i think you'll find WOXI kicked loyals (ex Maximus) arse back in 2010

so my statement that she will 'kick it's arse like all before her' stands pretty much correct...... .. . so far 

​remember the awesome start of last years race - the run to the final marker just inside the heads? think i know who conducts the sailing lessons



#130 2XD

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:44 AM

 

yep twice. the first time by a sistership that gave them a sailing lesson.

 

Fair is fair, 05 WOXI put over an hour on Alfa. So they're even.  :P

and i think you'll find WOXI kicked loyals (ex Maximus) arse back in 2010

so my statement that she will 'kick it's arse like all before her' stands pretty much correct...... .. . so far 

​remember the awesome start of last years race - the run to the final marker just inside the heads? think i know who conducts the sailing lessons

yeah i remember it, i sailed the race did u?. what i saw on the replay was pretty shitty boat handling by 2 100fters, one which obviously was heading to the wrong mark and the other going with it until they were sure that loyal could not get back down to the correct mark. sailing lesson? not really. Oats could have straight lined it to the mark and been comfortably around before loyal but looked shit scared that loyal would get over them so chased them up. 

 

not going to waste any further time on this. 

 

ever wonder why loads of cheers go up when the don't win? 



#131 2XD

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:46 AM

yep twice. the first time by a sistership that gave them a sailing lesson.

 

Fair is fair, 05 WOXI put over an hour on Alfa. So they're even.  :P

yeah true



#132 DickDastardly

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:13 AM

WOXI copied and had the luxury to change and improve on Alfa on that first encounter.......They had the path paved so to speak.

Had they raced outside of OZ on the world circuit against Croaky for those years, I suspect the score card would look very different.......all specublather though.

They are both all conquering and a credit to the designer and builder......

guess who's angling for a ride.... :lol:



#133 SCANAS

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:15 AM


WOXI copied and had the luxury to change and improve on Alfa on that first encounter.......They had the path paved so to speak.
Had they raced outside of OZ on the world circuit against Croaky for those years, I suspect the score card would look very different.......all specublather though.
They are both all conquering and a credit to the designer and builder......

guess who's angling for a ride.... :lol:

Aren't we all? Owners excluded.

#134 PIL007

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:50 PM

No doubt I'd love a ride but the list in front of me these days is very long and with all the young whippa snappers coming through, it's getting longer.....I'm happy with the rides/positions I've had in the last 10years and frankly, after Shorty died, I've lost interest a little in the big offshore races.   Truth be know, I'd go with Langman before any 100ft maxi if I had options.....but I don't.

Who's on the cubed crew list atm..?



#135 DickDastardly

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 11:10 PM

No doubt I'd love a ride but the list in front of me these days is very long and with all the young whippa snappers coming through, it's getting longer.....I'm happy with the rides/positions I've had in the last 10years and frankly, after Shorty died, I've lost interest a little in the big offshore races.   Truth be know, I'd go with Langman before any 100ft maxi if I had options.....but I don't.

Who's on the cubed crew list atm..?

Old fart...

 

I believe Ken Read is involved in Clark's J Class - assume it's the same basic team?



#136 Flatbag

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:49 PM

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  

 

Tons?  

It's a unit of weight equivalent to 2000 pounds or .907 metric ton.

 1 Ton = a cubic shitload of fuel



#137 P_Wop

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:38 AM

3.5 liter turbodiesel, about 220shp, uses 40 liters/hr at full power, or 10 liters/hr at half speed (1/4 power).  24 hours/day for 7 days, running continuously, you're looking at over 400 gallons of fuel minimum, managed carefully.  About a ton and a half at the beginning of an Atlantic crossing

 

One person including bodyweight, food, water, clothing and bedding weighs about 400lbs at the start of the leg.  So you get eight more people, if you need them.  Generally you don't, as for a maximum-man manoeuvre (headsail change or heavy-air reef) you use about as many crew on a motor-assisted boat as on a manually-powered one.  

 

So the manually-powered boat could be significantly lighter, at least at the start and most of the leg.  Of course you lose the weight of hydraulic motors etc, possibly balanced out by adding weight of pedestals and clutches - so that's a wash.

 

Also on a manual boat you'd have to run the genset daily anyway, so this would change the calcs.

 

Anyone done and published the numbers properly?



#138 Oscar Whitbread

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 07:32 AM

It would be interesting to run the numbers. I think it depends on the type of racing you want to target.

 

Having raced on both power and manual boats of similar size to Hobart, I'd take the powered option every day especially hard running. You can chase every wave without burning through crew on the pumps, everyone is less fatigued so sail handling is a lot snappier, crew a lot more upbeat. Same with inshore racing if you are doing multiple races a day, you are nowhere near as physically fucked from a trimmers point of view, less mistakes etc.

 

However I think if you are targeting longer races the advantage is less as so many more factors come into play than just sending it as hard as you can for 24 hours. You are preserving boat and crew much more and not so worried it if takes extra time to do sail changes. Strategy and Navigation come more into play.



#139 skew

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:05 PM

You guys are missing the fact that this boat is a canter?  Moving the ballast is not a manual operation.  Granted you may not need power continuously, but this is not a "manual" boat since it has movable ballast.  It will not eligible for the Barn Door for example.  The 100' Rio will be however...



#140 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

No doubt I'd love a ride but the list in front of me these days is very long and with all the young whippa snappers coming through, it's getting longer.....I'm happy with the rides/positions I've had in the last 10years and frankly, after Shorty died, I've lost interest a little in the big offshore races.   Truth be know, I'd go with Langman before any 100ft maxi if I had options.....but I don't.

Who's on the cubed crew list atm..?

Old fart...

 

I believe Ken Read is involved in Clark's J Class - assume it's the same basic team?

 

Pretty much the Puma team plus a few spare kiwis and aussies and a newporter or four.



#141 GnarlyItWas

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:40 PM

P-wop, Are you sure that engine runs 24/7. I would have thought it runs to move the keel and fills a reservoir for the winches and kick in automatically when needed, I would be surprised if it was always on, I have been wrong before though.



#142 P_Wop

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:38 PM

P-wop, Are you sure that engine runs 24/7. I would have thought it runs to move the keel and fills a reservoir for the winches and kick in automatically when needed, I would be surprised if it was always on, I have been wrong before though.

 

I'm not sure either.  But I think you'd need a seriously large (and heavy) high-pressure hydro reservoir to drive winches for more than a few seconds. Deano's  "Hydro!  Hydro!..."  shout in SF was a fascinating example.  

 

I'm old school, always did manual winches on maxis back in the day. But recent experience trimming on a 102' ketch in Antigua showed the engine was running continuously while racing, to develop all the pressure we needed for the hydraulic jib and staysail sheet winches.  And not just tick-over, serious rpms, otherwise nothing moved very fast, if at all.

 

Perhaps a modern maxi pro could chime in on this.



#143 Soley

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:48 PM

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...



#144 GnarlyItWas

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:36 AM

Yep, not too sure. Coming from a large cruising yacht background too we used to have 1 generator running 24/7 and 2 for docking / racing. But of course you have to run A/C, Refrigeration and all sorts of other shit you won't have on this new boat.

 

I was struggling to imagine the boat sailing in a steady 5 kt breeze off shore still needing the thing running the whole time. Maybe a lightweight accumulator would offset the fuel required or even allow a smaller generator.

 

I think the Hydro's HYDRO"S !! calls on the ac 72's was mainly due to an arbitrary and unpopular class rule more than anything else.



#145 DickDastardly

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:42 AM

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...

They use a PLC (computer) to sense demand on the hydraulic system in real time and adjust engine revs accordingly so yes, engine on 24/7 and it responds automatically to demand from winches or keel.

 

A friend does deliveries on WOXI and they take delight in switching it off and sailing the boat manually but that only works in delivery mode.



#146 jc172528

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:28 AM

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...

They use a PLC (computer) to sense demand on the hydraulic system in real time and adjust engine revs accordingly so yes, engine on 24/7 and it responds automatically to demand from winches or keel.

 

A friend does deliveries on WOXI and they take delight in switching it off and sailing the boat manually but that only works in delivery mode.

 

So what's the back up plan if said engine/hydraulics die during the race? 



#147 point

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:55 AM

 

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...

They use a PLC (computer) to sense demand on the hydraulic system in real time and adjust engine revs accordingly so yes, engine on 24/7 and it responds automatically to demand from winches or keel.

 

A friend does deliveries on WOXI and they take delight in switching it off and sailing the boat manually but that only works in delivery mode.

 

So what's the back up plan if said engine/hydraulics die during the race? 

 

That's generally why you bring your own hydraulic and mechanical engineering capabilities within the crew. Worst case you end up on one tack, with a set keel cant, and not a lot of sail trim adjustment till you sort it out. Upside is you can have a real party below deck with a couple of gallons of loose hydraulic fluid... again, probably more suited to backpacker extracurricular activities during a delivery run than off watch during racing... 



#148 DickDastardly

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:17 AM

 

 

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...

They use a PLC (computer) to sense demand on the hydraulic system in real time and adjust engine revs accordingly so yes, engine on 24/7 and it responds automatically to demand from winches or keel.

 

A friend does deliveries on WOXI and they take delight in switching it off and sailing the boat manually but that only works in delivery mode.

 

So what's the back up plan if said engine/hydraulics die during the race? 

 

That's generally why you bring your own hydraulic and mechanical engineering capabilities within the crew. Worst case you end up on one tack, with a set keel cant, and not a lot of sail trim adjustment till you sort it out. Upside is you can have a real party below deck with a couple of gallons of loose hydraulic fluid... again, probably more suited to backpacker extracurricular activities during a delivery run than off watch during racing... 

AFAIK there are manual overrides to all the systems allowing basic functionality, and if the hydro fails and can't be fixed they pin the keel in the middle (I believe most installations are set up to allow that these days, remember what happened to Wharro in the '04 Hobart on Skandia when the keel went Free Willy...), shorten sail and retire.  These boats can barely be sailed effectively without working hydraulics, and certainly can't race.



#149 Abbo

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:37 PM

I'm sure I heard somewhere that WOXI takes about 300 litres of diesel for a Hobart

 

So that's about the same weight as clothes and safety equipment (harnesses , tethers, strobes, epirbs, rafts etc etc) for about 10 guys.

 

So then add the weight of the guys themselves, their food, their water etc etc. And I'm pretty sure have to carry all water for a Hobart.(could be wrong though) Way over a tonne now.... probably more like 1.5t.

 

So if you had to carry an ADDITIONAL ten guys to spin the handles then a stored power boat would be much lighter (well over a tonne) at the start and still significantly lighter at the finish.

 

However, watching last years ABC footage of the boys on WOXI sending it across the strait there looked like there was at least 15 blokes crammed in the the last 3 feet of the yacht so there must have been about twenty total.... that's enough to fill the pumps if they went manual surely?

 

What I'm saying is it's not like they try and sail short handed to press the advantage of stored. I guess you still got the get the bloody big rags up and down and reefed etc. So if you are going to take 20 blokes anyway then all of your significant weight advantage is lost.

 

If they only need 20 odd dudes to sail this new Cubed thing then manual power would have to be  much lighter. However. they will be tired boys at the finish though..... WOXI's Yanmar.... not very tired at all!!!! Time for a tacking or gybing duel!!!



#150 doghouse

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:43 PM

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...

They use a PLC (computer) to sense demand on the hydraulic system in real time and adjust engine revs accordingly so yes, engine on 24/7 and it responds automatically to demand from winches or keel.

 

A friend does deliveries on WOXI and they take delight in switching it off and sailing the boat manually but that only works in delivery mode.

 

That's surprising. Generally, RPM manipulation is used on machines that move (eg. Bulldozers) and stationary stuff uses variable speed pumps at constant engine RPM.



#151 Soley

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:05 PM

 

The usual way to operate is with the engine running in idle and able to ramp up to optimum rpm when power is called for. They generally don't have an accumulator tank with stored pressure. 

Of course being a new highly technical project, this is all subject to change...

They use a PLC (computer) to sense demand on the hydraulic system in real time and adjust engine revs accordingly so yes, engine on 24/7 and it responds automatically to demand from winches or keel.

 

A friend does deliveries on WOXI and they take delight in switching it off and sailing the boat manually but that only works in delivery mode.

 

That's surprising. Generally, RPM manipulation is used on machines that move (eg. Bulldozers) and stationary stuff uses variable speed pumps at constant engine RPM.

Maybe it is a capacity thing rather than pressure thing. The more objects need moving, the more RPMs you need. I am sure Gybing requires a lot of oil to pass through the pumps.



#152 Abbo

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:13 PM

They are incredibly complicated systems, the keel cant is high pressure high flow, the winches are relatively low pressure hi flow, sail controls are high pressure low flow, etc etc. The PLC is the only effective way to get the flexibility of the different load and flow cases. For canting and winches they generally run the engine flat out and for the sail controls they don't rev anywhere near as hard.

 

And yeah Gybing is max load on the system, full speed cant, primaries in top gear for the spin sheet (and possibly furling if it's a Zero), main sheet flat out and the runners are going pretty hard too. I remember at one of the maxi worlds when WOXI was competing pretty hard with Croakey they tried putting a smaller engine in WOXI to get the weight down. Didn't work, the engine kept stalling mid gybe!



#153 Left Hook

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:38 PM

Has any offshore canter gone with a battery system to power their keel while doing everything else manually?

#154 Potter

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:55 PM

Has any offshore canter gone with a battery system to power their keel while doing everything else manually?

Yep, nearly every canting IMOCA 60 ever built. 

 

Assuming you were thinking of Maxis, none that I know about have used battery systems. Certainly the VOR 70s and 65s use the engine to power the cant hydraulics, with an autostart system when you demand keel movement.



#155 Abbo

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:01 PM

"Mr Kite" has an electric canting keel and manual winches. Great little boat.



#156 doghouse

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:05 PM

Maybe it is a capacity thing rather than pressure thing. The more objects need moving, the more RPMs you need. I am sure Gybing requires a lot of oil to pass through the pumps.

 

It could be. Though our highest capacity machines are excavators, and they are constant RPM machines. I really don't have near enough data on the specs on a maxi to make any sort of judgement though. The variable RPM solution just struck me as odd.

 

They are incredibly complicated systems, the keel cant is high pressure high flow, the winches are relatively low pressure hi flow, sail controls are high pressure low flow, etc etc. The PLC is the only effective way to get the flexibility of the different load and flow cases. For canting and winches they generally run the engine flat out and for the sail controls they don't rev anywhere near as hard.

 

And yeah Gybing is max load on the system, full speed cant, primaries in top gear for the spin sheet (and possibly furling if it's a Zero), main sheet flat out and the runners are going pretty hard too. I remember at one of the maxi worlds when WOXI was competing pretty hard with Croakey they tried putting a smaller engine in WOXI to get the weight down. Didn't work, the engine kept stalling mid gybe!

 

Almost any modern hydraulic system is computer controlled. And with all the Tier IV/Stage IIIB stuff engines have to be as well to have a prayer.



#157 TPG

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:28 PM

Instead of being overly complicated wouldn't they just run a hydraulic system for winches, system for rig control, and a system for keel control? Seems it would be far simpler that way instead of relying on overly complex systems.



#158 doghouse

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

Instead of being overly complicated wouldn't they just run a hydraulic system for winches, system for rig control, and a system for keel control? Seems it would be far simpler that way instead of relying on overly complex systems.

 

It's not terribly complex in the hydraulic world, just relative to what yachts have had in the past. most of these systems are pretty elementary compared to hydraulic machinery of 20+ years ago. I would think the biggest hurdle is the cost of R&D of such rarely produced systems. If it can't be spread over thousands of units the costs of employing something modern on a sailboat would push the price to levels that would make new supermaxis of today seem like bargains. Existing systems are going to need to be adapted and that's what i would guess is going on.

 

If anyone has experience fitting a modern yacht hydraulic systems I'd be curious to know as someone who's done a lot of hydraulic work.



#159 Monkey

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 10:51 PM


Instead of being overly complicated wouldn't they just run a hydraulic system for winches, system for rig control, and a system for keel control? Seems it would be far simpler that way instead of relying on overly complex systems.

 
It's not terribly complex in the hydraulic world, just relative to what yachts have had in the past. most of these systems are pretty elementary compared to hydraulic machinery of 20+ years ago. I would think the biggest hurdle is the cost of R&D of such rarely produced systems. If it can't be spread over thousands of units the costs of employing something modern on a sailboat would push the price to levels that would make new supermaxis of today seem like bargains. Existing systems are going to need to be adapted and that's what i would guess is going on.
 
If anyone has experience fitting a modern yacht hydraulic systems I'd be curious to know as someone who's done a lot of hydraulic work.
I've never dealt with a yacht before, but the logic for the PLC wouldn't be hard at all. Tying an engine to a PLC is pretty easy, as well as getting feedback from the hydraulic system. The assorted buttons and HMI's to run everything aren't a big deal either. In my opinion, the serious engineering is getting all the hydraulics right.

#160 rantifarian

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:12 PM

Has anyone got numbers for the pressure they run the system at? I remember seeing a video of speedboat that quickly flashed over a few hose tails. They looked like Code 62 to me, which would suggest pressure around 5000-6000 psi.

#161 doghouse

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:35 PM

 


Instead of being overly complicated wouldn't they just run a hydraulic system for winches, system for rig control, and a system for keel control? Seems it would be far simpler that way instead of relying on overly complex systems.

 
It's not terribly complex in the hydraulic world, just relative to what yachts have had in the past. most of these systems are pretty elementary compared to hydraulic machinery of 20+ years ago. I would think the biggest hurdle is the cost of R&D of such rarely produced systems. If it can't be spread over thousands of units the costs of employing something modern on a sailboat would push the price to levels that would make new supermaxis of today seem like bargains. Existing systems are going to need to be adapted and that's what i would guess is going on.
 
If anyone has experience fitting a modern yacht hydraulic systems I'd be curious to know as someone who's done a lot of hydraulic work.
I've never dealt with a yacht before, but the logic for the PLC wouldn't be hard at all. Tying an engine to a PLC is pretty easy, as well as getting feedback from the hydraulic system. The assorted buttons and HMI's to run everything aren't a big deal either. In my opinion, the serious engineering is getting all the hydraulics right.

 

I agree. That's why i think adapting known systems would probably be the way to go. Unless you wanna spend several million on just the hydraulics.



#162 TPG

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:55 PM

 

 


Instead of being overly complicated wouldn't they just run a hydraulic system for winches, system for rig control, and a system for keel control? Seems it would be far simpler that way instead of relying on overly complex systems.

 
It's not terribly complex in the hydraulic world, just relative to what yachts have had in the past. most of these systems are pretty elementary compared to hydraulic machinery of 20+ years ago. I would think the biggest hurdle is the cost of R&D of such rarely produced systems. If it can't be spread over thousands of units the costs of employing something modern on a sailboat would push the price to levels that would make new supermaxis of today seem like bargains. Existing systems are going to need to be adapted and that's what i would guess is going on.
 
If anyone has experience fitting a modern yacht hydraulic systems I'd be curious to know as someone who's done a lot of hydraulic work.
I've never dealt with a yacht before, but the logic for the PLC wouldn't be hard at all. Tying an engine to a PLC is pretty easy, as well as getting feedback from the hydraulic system. The assorted buttons and HMI's to run everything aren't a big deal either. In my opinion, the serious engineering is getting all the hydraulics right.

 

I agree. That's why i think adapting known systems would probably be the way to go. Unless you wanna spend several million on just the hydraulics.

 

Did some digging and found a press release from a controls company highlighting WOXI. (google wild oats xi hydraulics) and their work on her. Definitely a one off project.



#163 doghouse

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:10 AM

 

 

 


Instead of being overly complicated wouldn't they just run a hydraulic system for winches, system for rig control, and a system for keel control? Seems it would be far simpler that way instead of relying on overly complex systems.

 
It's not terribly complex in the hydraulic world, just relative to what yachts have had in the past. most of these systems are pretty elementary compared to hydraulic machinery of 20+ years ago. I would think the biggest hurdle is the cost of R&D of such rarely produced systems. If it can't be spread over thousands of units the costs of employing something modern on a sailboat would push the price to levels that would make new supermaxis of today seem like bargains. Existing systems are going to need to be adapted and that's what i would guess is going on.
 
If anyone has experience fitting a modern yacht hydraulic systems I'd be curious to know as someone who's done a lot of hydraulic work.
I've never dealt with a yacht before, but the logic for the PLC wouldn't be hard at all. Tying an engine to a PLC is pretty easy, as well as getting feedback from the hydraulic system. The assorted buttons and HMI's to run everything aren't a big deal either. In my opinion, the serious engineering is getting all the hydraulics right.

 

I agree. That's why i think adapting known systems would probably be the way to go. Unless you wanna spend several million on just the hydraulics.

 

Did some digging and found a press release from a controls company highlighting WOXI. (google wild oats xi hydraulics) and their work on her. Definitely a one off project.

 

Not surprised. Giving up a lot of advantage doing that, but I guess when no one else has advanced hydraulics it doesn't matter that much.



#164 Abbo

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 02:38 AM

South Coast Hydraulics are the gurus, they designed and built with a lot of help from Oletrics the hydro systems on almost all the Machonaghy canters (Z86's, 100 ft RP's etc) and plenty of the VO70's. 



#165 karua

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:50 AM

Central Coast Hydraulics



#166 Abbo

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 04:02 AM

Correct! Sorry, slip of the tongue / keyboard there!

 

http://www.thedailys...movistars-canti



#167 Paps

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:16 AM

Dropped in for a visit, not much has changed and certainly none for the better.

 

A comment on this project. Given perfect conditions it could blitz the record, most years it would not make Hobart, on a bad year people will die.

 

I know Volvo boats handle extreme weather but they always have the option to head down and change strategy.

 

Heading to Hobart, 50knots plus on the nose, Bass Straight no back to them 10+ meter waves with a cross sea at 3 meters. This is a death ship.

STH is not the race for this boat IMHO. Especially not as a shake down.



Just my 2c, flame away.

 

It's basically a big Open 60, Paps, designed to break transatlantic, transpacific, and even possibly a RTW record.  And perhaps most importantly, there was no JuanK involvement.

 

Do you think it should be able to handle a Hobart with those credentials?

The thing is Clean in all those record scenarios you can use weather routing and largish diversions if necessary.

 

In Bass straight blowing 50 on the nose there is nowhere to go. I spoke to Syd after the Hobart he did on Ragamuffin ex Bumblebee in 1990. In Bass Straight their biggest problem was slowing the thing down. It kept leaping off waves in to mid air and the landings were bone jarringly scary moments.

I'm sure it will be fast and on a downwind year would probably take line honours and the record. If its more like '98 I would not like their chances.



#168 edouard

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:36 AM

 

Dropped in for a visit, not much has changed and certainly none for the better.

 

A comment on this project. Given perfect conditions it could blitz the record, most years it would not make Hobart, on a bad year people will die.

 

I know Volvo boats handle extreme weather but they always have the option to head down and change strategy.

 

Heading to Hobart, 50knots plus on the nose, Bass Straight no back to them 10+ meter waves with a cross sea at 3 meters. This is a death ship.

STH is not the race for this boat IMHO. Especially not as a shake down.



Just my 2c, flame away.

 

It's basically a big Open 60, Paps, designed to break transatlantic, transpacific, and even possibly a RTW record.  And perhaps most importantly, there was no JuanK involvement.

 

Do you think it should be able to handle a Hobart with those credentials?

The thing is Clean in all those record scenarios you can use weather routing and largish diversions if necessary.

 

In Bass straight blowing 50 on the nose there is nowhere to go. I spoke to Syd after the Hobart he did on Ragamuffin ex Bumblebee in 1990. In Bass Straight their biggest problem was slowing the thing down. It kept leaping off waves in to mid air and the landings were bone jarringly scary moments.

I'm sure it will be fast and on a downwind year would probably take line honours and the record. If its more like '98 I would not like their chances.

 

 

Give us the name of a boat in which you would feel safe with 50 on the nose in Bass Straight. And don't tell me WOXI, please.



#169 Leka

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:30 AM

^^ Any of the boats that finished '98 would be OK, with the exception of the first across!!

 

There are MANY boats in Aust that are very capable of 50 on the nose in Bass Strait.

 

Once you are on any of those its the skipper and crew that make the difference.

 

No need to look any further than the winner of 98 for a classic example of that.



#170 edouard

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 06:34 PM

^^ Any of the boats that finished '98 would be OK, with the exception of the first across!!

 

There are MANY boats in Aust that are very capable of 50 on the nose in Bass Strait.

 

Once you are on any of those its the skipper and crew that make the difference.

 

No need to look any further than the winner of 98 for a classic example of that.

 

Thanks for the "answer". So basically you exclude any of the craft that took line honors in the last 15 years.

 

As much as I respect the achievements of those who sailed through a storm in that neck of the woods, I am sick and tired of the SHbots who believe it^s the only place on earth where adverse seas add to mighty winds. Just ask the competitors of the 2008-2009 VOR about the China See in the Winter!!!

 

For Peter's sake! Southern Australia is NOT the deadliest piece of ocean in the world. As far as I am concerned a VOR 70 or IMOCA 60 has just as much chance of surviving in extreme conditions than any of the SH stars. The whole idea that "they can sail off the wind" is complete BS, first because it simply isn't true as they still have a course to follow, second because they face the shitstorm for WEEEKS, not 48HOURS.



#171 Paps

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 11:40 PM

^^ Any of the boats that finished '98 would be OK, with the exception of the first across!!

 

There are MANY boats in Aust that are very capable of 50 on the nose in Bass Strait.

 

Once you are on any of those its the skipper and crew that make the difference.

 

No need to look any further than the winner of 98 for a classic example of that.

 

Thanks for the "answer". So basically you exclude any of the craft that took line honors in the last 15 years.

 

As much as I respect the achievements of those who sailed through a storm in that neck of the woods, I am sick and tired of the SHbots who believe it^s the only place on earth where adverse seas add to mighty winds. Just ask the competitors of the 2008-2009 VOR about the China See in the Winter!!!

 

For Peter's sake! Southern Australia is NOT the deadliest piece of ocean in the world. As far as I am concerned a VOR 70 or IMOCA 60 has just as much chance of surviving in extreme conditions than any of the SH stars. The whole idea that "they can sail off the wind" is complete BS, first because it simply isn't true as they still have a course to follow, second because they face the shitstorm for WEEEKS, not 48HOURS.

 

I was responding to this Etard.

"It's basically a big Open 60, Paps, designed to break transatlantic, transpacific, and even possibly a RTW record"

 

In record attempts weather windows are carefully selected and 50 on the nose is very unlikely to be in the scenario.



#172 RKoch

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:36 PM

Talked to my Dad in Boothbay a couple days ago. The talk around the harbor is that there's no rumors or info going around. Things are quiet.

#173 umpire

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 10:09 PM

Talked to my Dad in Boothbay a couple days ago. The talk around the harbor is that there's no rumors or info going around. Things are quiet.

Thanks for that.



#174 Captain Jack Sparrow

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:17 AM

They're still prepping shit like bulkheads and installing some internal fittings before the deck is bonded on.

#175 Paps

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:50 AM

 

Manual must also allows the boat to sail without the engine on all the time and the elimination of TONS of fuel depending on the length of the race.  

 

Tons?  

It's a unit of weight equivalent to 2000 pounds or .907 metric ton.

This forum needs a "like" button.



#176 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:55 PM

 

^^ Any of the boats that finished '98 would be OK, with the exception of the first across!!

 

There are MANY boats in Aust that are very capable of 50 on the nose in Bass Strait.

 

Once you are on any of those its the skipper and crew that make the difference.

 

No need to look any further than the winner of 98 for a classic example of that.

 

Thanks for the "answer". So basically you exclude any of the craft that took line honors in the last 15 years.

 

As much as I respect the achievements of those who sailed through a storm in that neck of the woods, I am sick and tired of the SHbots who believe it^s the only place on earth where adverse seas add to mighty winds. Just ask the competitors of the 2008-2009 VOR about the China See in the Winter!!!

 

For Peter's sake! Southern Australia is NOT the deadliest piece of ocean in the world. As far as I am concerned a VOR 70 or IMOCA 60 has just as much chance of surviving in extreme conditions than any of the SH stars. The whole idea that "they can sail off the wind" is complete BS, first because it simply isn't true as they still have a course to follow, second because they face the shitstorm for WEEEKS, not 48HOURS.

 

I was responding to this Etard.

"It's basically a big Open 60, Paps, designed to break transatlantic, transpacific, and even possibly a RTW record"

 

In record attempts weather windows are carefully selected and 50 on the nose is very unlikely to be in the scenario.

 

And how about in RTW attempts?  Not a lot of weather windows on one of those, other than the first 4 days.  Got an answer?



#177 moody frog

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:26 PM

 

 

^^ Any of the boats that finished '98 would be OK, with the exception of the first across!!

 

There are MANY boats in Aust that are very capable of 50 on the nose in Bass Strait.

 

Once you are on any of those its the skipper and crew that make the difference.

 

No need to look any further than the winner of 98 for a classic example of that.

 

Thanks for the "answer". So basically you exclude any of the craft that took line honors in the last 15 years.

 

As much as I respect the achievements of those who sailed through a storm in that neck of the woods, I am sick and tired of the SHbots who believe it^s the only place on earth where adverse seas add to mighty winds. Just ask the competitors of the 2008-2009 VOR about the China See in the Winter!!!

 

For Peter's sake! Southern Australia is NOT the deadliest piece of ocean in the world. As far as I am concerned a VOR 70 or IMOCA 60 has just as much chance of surviving in extreme conditions than any of the SH stars. The whole idea that "they can sail off the wind" is complete BS, first because it simply isn't true as they still have a course to follow, second because they face the shitstorm for WEEEKS, not 48HOURS.

 

I was responding to this Etard.

"It's basically a big Open 60, Paps, designed to break transatlantic, transpacific, and even possibly a RTW record"

 

In record attempts weather windows are carefully selected and 50 on the nose is very unlikely to be in the scenario.

 

And how about in RTW attempts?  Not a lot of weather windows on one of those, other than the first 4 days.  Got an answer?

 

Nope of course, but (ref IMOCA's) enough met knowledge and files to sail from one low's right quarter to the next low right quarter, little chances to meet facing winds,



#178 Paps

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:40 AM

 

 

 

^^ Any of the boats that finished '98 would be OK, with the exception of the first across!!

 

There are MANY boats in Aust that are very capable of 50 on the nose in Bass Strait.

 

Once you are on any of those its the skipper and crew that make the difference.

 

No need to look any further than the winner of 98 for a classic example of that.

 

Thanks for the "answer". So basically you exclude any of the craft that took line honors in the last 15 years.

 

As much as I respect the achievements of those who sailed through a storm in that neck of the woods, I am sick and tired of the SHbots who believe it^s the only place on earth where adverse seas add to mighty winds. Just ask the competitors of the 2008-2009 VOR about the China See in the Winter!!!

 

For Peter's sake! Southern Australia is NOT the deadliest piece of ocean in the world. As far as I am concerned a VOR 70 or IMOCA 60 has just as much chance of surviving in extreme conditions than any of the SH stars. The whole idea that "they can sail off the wind" is complete BS, first because it simply isn't true as they still have a course to follow, second because they face the shitstorm for WEEEKS, not 48HOURS.

 

I was responding to this Etard.

"It's basically a big Open 60, Paps, designed to break transatlantic, transpacific, and even possibly a RTW record"

 

In record attempts weather windows are carefully selected and 50 on the nose is very unlikely to be in the scenario.

 

And how about in RTW attempts?  Not a lot of weather windows on one of those, other than the first 4 days.  Got an answer?

 

Nope of course, but (ref IMOCA's) enough met knowledge and files to sail from one low's right quarter to the next low right quarter, little chances to meet facing winds,

Exactly and a totally different scenario to a point to point race. I'm not putting shit on this boat, I'm excited to see it in action. I merely pointed out that most years it is probably a line honours contender for the Hobart race.



#179 Abbo

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:32 AM

How do you see it as a line honours contender when  it has a lot of characteristics in common with Loyal / Speedboat? Sure it will be faster than Loyal but only a bit. If they get any significant amount of upwind or running WOXI will hose it.

 

The only chance for this boat and Loyal to beat WOXI in a Hobart is if the get conditions like '99 when Nokia broke the record. Strong nor-easters the WHOLE way. That is a very rare event indeed.



#180 Left Hook

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 01:21 PM

I cannot stand the constant Wild Oats fellatio that happens on this board.

#181 Abbo

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:21 PM

Lol. Not Just Oates mate. Croakeys old Alfa RP100 would whip loyal and this cubed things arse too. It's a one trick pony vs an all rounder. No contest.

#182 Captain Jack Sparrow

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:38 PM

Lol. Not Just Oates mate. Croakeys old Alfa RP100 would whip loyal and this cubed things arse too. It's a one trick pony vs an all rounder. No contest.



Spot on.

#183 Christian

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:58 PM

How do you see it as a line honours contender when  it has a lot of characteristics in common with Loyal / Speedboat? Sure it will be faster than Loyal but only a bit. If they get any significant amount of upwind or running WOXI will hose it.

 

The only chance for this boat and Loyal to beat WOXI in a Hobart is if the get conditions like '99 when Nokia broke the record. Strong nor-easters the WHOLE way. That is a very rare event indeed.

Sure is but hell that was fun!



#184 doghouse

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:16 PM

Lol. Not Just Oates mate. Croakeys old Alfa RP100 would whip loyal and this cubed things arse too. It's a one trick pony vs an all rounder. No contest.

 

You mean the same Oats that got beat there by that shit heap Maximus?



#185 Sarc

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

Lol. Not Just Oates mate. Croakeys old Alfa RP100 would whip loyal and this cubed things arse too. It's a one trick pony vs an all rounder. No contest.

 

You mean the same Oats that got beat there by that shit heap Maximus?

People here forget 2011 all to easily..



#186 Sailbydate

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:34 PM

Surprise me how many here seem to believe the Sydney Hobart is an actual ocean race. 



#187 Abbo

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:08 AM

Maximum is much more of an all rounder than speedboat.

#188 Paps

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:58 AM

How do you see it as a line honours contender when  it has a lot of characteristics in common with Loyal / Speedboat? Sure it will be faster than Loyal but only a bit. If they get any significant amount of upwind or running WOXI will hose it.

 

The only chance for this boat and Loyal to beat WOXI in a Hobart is if the get conditions like '99 when Nokia broke the record. Strong nor-easters the WHOLE way. That is a very rare event indeed.

Oops meant to put NOT in there.



#189 SCANAS

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:57 AM


Lol. Not Just Oates mate. Croakeys old Alfa RP100 would whip loyal and this cubed things arse too. It's a one trick pony vs an all rounder. No contest.

 
You mean the same Oats that got beat there by that shit heap Maximus?
People here forget 2011 all to easily..

Hard to argue with 7 wins from 9 starts!

Good on Oats' I reckon. I'm sure Loyal or Cubed or someone else will beat oats with favourable weather soon but the Oats crew have a well deserved spot in the history books.

#190 jc172528

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:46 PM

 

 


Lol. Not Just Oates mate. Croakeys old Alfa RP100 would whip loyal and this cubed things arse too. It's a one trick pony vs an all rounder. No contest.

 
You mean the same Oats that got beat there by that shit heap Maximus?
People here forget 2011 all to easily..

Hard to argue with 7 wins from 9 starts!

Good on Oats' I reckon. I'm sure Loyal or Cubed or someone else will beat oats with favourable weather soon but the Oats crew have a well deserved spot in the history books.

 

Most of those 'wins' were against zero competition.

 

Certainty had their pants pulled down in 2011. 



#191 Abbo

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:14 PM

Sure did. They had a weakness downwind in very light that Maximus (old Loyal) exposed and rubbed salt in. That hole has now been plugged. As I said Maximus in that configuration was much more of an all rounder than Cubed or Speedboat will ever be, and it was exceptionally quick in light conditions. 2011 was a not exactly windy by Hobart standards. Loyal had a very good crew that year and had Stan Honey navigating. That's a pretty formidable opposition.



#192 Chris 249

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:44 AM

Surprise me how many here seem to believe the Sydney Hobart is an actual ocean race. 

 

Who defines "actual ocean race", and how? And why does it matter?  

 

A "real ocean race" like the 1080 Sydney-Noumea can be a complete cakewalk compared to the normal Hobart. The last time but one that the Volvo guys did the Hobart, they copped a caning. The website of the British yacht Sunstone, whose owners have something like 4 British offshore racing yacht of the year titles and 250,000 miles under their belt, lists the Hobart as having the worst seas in the world - and that's coming from people whose favourite cruising grounds include Alaska, NZ and Cape Horn.

 

So it's not as is the Hobart is a particularly easy race, or that longer races are harder.



#193 Abbo

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 02:53 AM

Sounds to me like sail by date has never done one. Certainly not a windy one.



#194 SCANAS

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:35 AM

I thought M Coxon was WOXI's kryptonite :-)

I'd stil love to see the L100. Hijack off.

#195 Sailbydate

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:45 AM

Sounds to me like sail by date has never done one. Certainly not a windy one.

Quite right, Abbo. I've never done an ocean race either. I'm pretty good at binge drinking too though.  :)



#196 umpire

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:47 AM

Why doesn't WOXI travel and do other races? Such as the Caribbean 600, Fastnet, Middle Sea or Newport Bermuda for example.

#197 jc172528

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:19 AM

Why doesn't WOXI travel and do other races? Such as the Caribbean 600, Fastnet, Middle Sea or Newport Bermuda for example.

 

One trick pony that wouldn't be overly competitive. Big fish in small pond.  



#198 Rushman

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:34 AM

Why doesn't WOXI travel and do other races? Such as the Caribbean 600, Fastnet, Middle Sea or Newport Bermuda for example.


It spends January to November in the shed getting the latest go fast bits added.

#199 SCANAS

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:01 AM


Why doesn't WOXI travel and do other races? Such as the Caribbean 600, Fastnet, Middle Sea or Newport Bermuda for example.

It spends January to November in the shed getting the latest go fast bits added.

From my armchair it appears Oats spends a lot more time on the water than the Loyal or Raggamuffin teams.

&

EX - Alfa still kicks ass overseas + Oats would be quicker again with all her mods.

Loyalspeedrambler is the "most powerful Supermaxi ever built" remember and oats appears to have her number. At least for now.

#200 Trickypig Хитрый свиньи

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:35 AM

I cannot stand the constant Wild Oats fellatio that happens on this board.

That's coz your 'merican an you have the biggest and fastest of everythin'   

 

Ok we'll talk Transpac sleds, Bermuda and SORC if you like young Leftable.  :)







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