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#601 WCB

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:08 AM

Okay, back to dinghies.

 

OD 14 https://tucson.craig...5953096362.html



#602 WCB

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Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:11 AM

This guy is selling both a 505 and an FD in Tampa, FL.

 

https://tampa.craigs...5971657611.html



#603 BobBill

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 12:04 PM

Might be free...how do you swabs find these adverts?

 

Got to watch out for free stuff on Craig...read about guy who went to get a free sailboat and woke up on cruise ship, which may or may not have been a blessing, but he was in the housekeeping department down near engine room, assigned to washing bed clothes...ugh! I though Shanghai-ing people was outlawed...course he lived in South Texas, next to someone named Cruz...



#604 High Flow

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:31 PM

 

This guy is selling both a 505 and an FD in Tampa, FL.
 
https://tampa.craigs...5971657611.html


Looks like they are free. No
Money mentioned in the ad.

 

 

actually there are no details at all in the add.

sounds like the fell from a trailer somewhere... (if you know that saying in english).



#605 Steam Flyer

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:38 PM

 

 

This guy is selling both a 505 and an FD in Tampa, FL.
 
https://tampa.craigs...5971657611.html


Looks like they are free. No
Money mentioned in the ad.

 

 

actually there are no details at all in the add.

sounds like the fell from a trailer somewhere... (if you know that saying in english).

 

 

No, the boats are given full ads elsewhere; I dunno why he didn't put on more detail. Small world etc etc, I know that guy and his boats are NOT free; likely to be in very good shape / well equipped. Probably a good deal but not free!

 

FB- Doug



#606 BobBill

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:52 PM

 

 

This guy is selling both a 505 and an FD in Tampa, FL.
 
https://tampa.craigs...5971657611.html


Looks like they are free. No
Money mentioned in the ad.

 

 

actually there are no details at all in the add.

sounds like the fell from a trailer somewhere... (if you know that saying in english).

 

Fell off the turnip truck??? Very kewl! Like me!



#607 Carbon

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:14 PM

 

 

 

This guy is selling both a 505 and an FD in Tampa, FL.
 
https://tampa.craigs...5971657611.html


Looks like they are free. No
Money mentioned in the ad.

 

 

actually there are no details at all in the add.

sounds like the fell from a trailer somewhere... (if you know that saying in english).

 

Fell off the turnip truck??? Very kewl! Like me!

 

These are both nice boats...a Mader FD and a modern Rondar 505...the owner (not me) is a nice guy and takes good care of his boats. 



#608 BobBill

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 03:31 PM

Guessing he is moving to different venue...might be good deal for local person to buy and market...if as sounds, I likely would do if in area...



#609 mcsailor0303

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:09 PM

Needs a new rig, but this thing could be a good deal: http://www.ebay.com/...em=361899895525

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

s-l1600.jpg



#610 Steam Flyer

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 08:37 PM

Needs a new rig, but this thing could be a good deal: http://www.ebay.com/...em=361899895525

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

Great concept, not very good boats. I looked at them in the early 1990s before buying a Johnson 18 instead. The busted mast and the fact that it's being sold by "Boat Angel" (extra $300 and extra hassle) makes it not worth a 2nd glance IMHO.

 

However here is the Front Runner's big sister

https://norfolk.crai...5970250793.html

 

FB- Doug



#611 Alan Crawford

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 09:25 PM

I've been sailing a long time and visiting clubs all over. It never ceases to amaze me in all these years how poorly some people take care of what are (were) otherwise nice boats. You see them year after year sitting in the same place in some boat park or in a field or similar place. While some of the postings on this thread show some really nice, well taken care of boats, this one for the Front Runner prompts my comment here. Perhaps for these people they have one of those money trees growing on their property and simply don't care to take care of their possessions! 



#612 BobBill

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Posted 08 February 2017 - 09:45 PM

I've been sailing a long time and visiting clubs all over. It never ceases to amaze me in all these years how poorly some people take care of what are (were) otherwise nice boats. You see them year after year sitting in the same place in some boat park or in a field or similar place. While some of the postings on this thread show some really nice, well taken care of boats, this one for the Front Runner prompts my comment here. Perhaps for these people they have one of those money trees growing on their property and simply don't care to take care of their possessions! 

 

Alan +1. Some people have zero clue, even about themselves. It's amen, if that is the case. On the news and social media all the time...whacked!



#613 mcsailor0303

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:02 PM

https://losangeles.c...5992443709.html

 

00E0E_lSVkg6J6Z88_600x450.jpg

 

00202_hT3txbfcAuZ_600x450.jpg

 

07 FLYING TIGER 10 METER RACING SAILBOAT - $15000

THIS RACING SAILBOAT IS LOCATED IN MARINA DEL REY IN A SLIP. IT IS MISSING THE BOOM, RUDDER, SOME RIGGING AND SAILS. IT HAS A NISSAN ENGINE (RETRACTABLE) AND VHF RADIO ETC... GREAT PROJECT BOAT. NO TIME WASTERS OR DREAMERS PLEASE 



#614 BobBill

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 11:36 PM

Nice rig...trailer, stands...cost?

 

A smart search and some sleeves can covert carbon surfer mast to boom. SwillCraft...



#615 Steam Flyer

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 02:47 PM

Well, if you want a Flying Dutchman but you want it cheap rather than good, try this one

 

https://annapolis.cr...5999171206.html

 

1993 FLYING DUTCHMAN 20' Olympic class sailboat w/ many sails, ect. - $800

"1993 Vanguard built Flying Dutchman "project boat". Comes with 14 racing sails, beautiful Sitka spruce center board, rudder, dirty, real nice mast and boom. One of the fastest sailboats period. Needs attention, a reasonably skilled person could replace bulkheads and glass over deck in a week easily. Comes with trailer. 800$ as is. I would be willing to do the work for you if a deal is established."

 

 

Nice aluminum trailer.

 

FB- Doug



#616 WCB

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 06:46 PM

Here's a funky little boat...maybe a Moth?  

 

http://www.ebay.com/...em=172525791389



#617 RKoch

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:03 PM

Here's a funky little boat...maybe a Moth?  
 
http://www.ebay.com/...em=172525791389

Correct. That's a Classic Moth Class, what is called the Mistral design. Extreme V shape, very tippy (the wood mast probably doesn't help), and quite fast. Haven't seen that particular boat at any regattas, nor seen one with a wood mast. Much better mast options out there. Blades on that boat look sketchy. Building the hull is the cheap part, the big cost of those is the sail and rig. It would be a better deal just to start from scratch.

#618 RKoch

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 11:05 PM

Well, if you want a Flying Dutchman but you want it cheap rather than good, try this one
 
https://annapolis.cr...5999171206.html
  1993 FLYING DUTCHMAN 20' Olympic class sailboat w/ many sails, ect. - $800
"1993 Vanguard built Flying Dutchman "project boat". Comes with 14 racing sails, beautiful Sitka spruce center board, rudder, dirty, real nice mast and boom. One of the fastest sailboats period. Needs attention, a reasonably skilled person could replace bulkheads and glass over deck in a week easily. Comes with trailer. 800$ as is. I would be willing to do the work for you if a deal is established."
 
 
Nice aluminum trailer.
 
FB- Doug

That looks like a pretty good deal for a DIYer. Would be a good basis for an EC frankenboat.

#619 Steve Clark

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 02:31 PM

Vanguard's foray into FDs were in the early 80's not 90's. So boat is at least 10 years older than it says. Mark Lindsey finished two Vangard hulls for Mike Loeb and Steve Taylor which had 505style side tanks, Vanguard had some boats finished with wood decks, 2 plies of western red cedar a la Gougeon dogma, but I don't know who did the work. They were attractive boats.
I know this because I was paying atttention to FDs in the early 80's, and bought Vanguard in 1985, and we never built an FD.
SHC

#620 SPARSRUS

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 12:26 AM

Vanguard's foray into FDs were in the early 80's not 90's. So boat is at least 10 years older than it says. Mark Lindsey finished two Vangard hulls for Mike Loeb and Steve Taylor which had 505style side tanks, Vanguard had some boats finished with wood decks, 2 plies of western red cedar a la Gougeon dogma, but I don't know who did the work. They were attractive boats.
I know this because I was paying atttention to FDs in the early 80's, and bought Vanguard in 1985, and we never built an FD.
SHC

Ballenger did the decks on the first few Vanguard FDs. Augie Diaz had one. I am not sure if this is one of those boats, but the spi chute fairing looks the same, as does the deck knees, etc. . It is much earlier than 1993. Mike Loeb used a wooden decked Mader in 1984. That boat still exists. 



#621 Norse Horse

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 01:55 PM

This one converts to a bass boat.

....Do they have bass in Caboolture ?

 

https://www.gumtree....boat/1139070810

 

$_20.JPG



#622 BobBill

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 03:32 PM

At least not in landfill. Sad...



#623 Seattle Dinghyer

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 01:58 AM

That's a Ballenger deck;  I fwded it to him.  Must be difficult for you guys to see your hard work rotting away in a field somewhere. 

 

The trailer is worth more than that boat, I'm afraid, but that wouldn't stop an  idiot like me from fixing that boat up.  Let's face it:  The FD is hands down the queen of dinghies. 



#624 BobBill

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:56 AM

That's a Ballenger deck;  I fwded it to him.  Must be difficult for you guys to see your hard work rotting away in a field somewhere. 

 

The trailer is worth more than that boat, I'm afraid, but that wouldn't stop an  idiot like me from fixing that boat up.  Let's face it:  The FD is hands down the queen of dinghies. 

Geez, and all these years I thought the Raven was the dingy queen.



#625 Gregg28

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 12:21 PM

Needs a new rig, but this thing could be a good deal: http://www.ebay.com/...em=361899895525
 
s-l1600.jpg
 
s-l1600.jpg

I picked this up. Ended up at $1400 plus $300 in fees. Turns out the rig is fine with a brand new jib and an unused kite. Could use a new main. The hull does have some damage but I have glass, resin and gel cote. The trailer needed a new winch and lights and the boat needs new lines. But all told, it really only needs a couple hundred $$ and a weekend and it will be ready to race.
I am pretty juiced.

#626 Steam Flyer

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:43 PM

 

Needs a new rig, but this thing could be a good deal: http://www.ebay.com/...em=361899895525
 
s-l1600.jpg
 
s-l1600.jpg

I picked this up. Ended up at $1400 plus $300 in fees. Turns out the rig is fine with a brand new jib and an unused kite. Could use a new main. The hull does have some damage but I have glass, resin and gel cote. The trailer needed a new winch and lights and the boat needs new lines. But all told, it really only needs a couple hundred $$ and a weekend and it will be ready to race.
I am pretty juiced.

 

 

 

Excellent! Congrats on making the jump and on the boat turning out to be OK... hope you have lots of fun with it

 

FB- Doug



#627 BobBill

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 02:48 PM

 

Needs a new rig, but this thing could be a good deal: http://www.ebay.com/...em=361899895525
 
s-l1600.jpg
 
s-l1600.jpg

I picked this up. Ended up at $1400 plus $300 in fees. Turns out the rig is fine with a brand new jib and an unused kite. Could use a new main. The hull does have some damage but I have glass, resin and gel cote. The trailer needed a new winch and lights and the boat needs new lines. But all told, it really only needs a couple hundred $$ and a weekend and it will be ready to race.
I am pretty juiced.

 

Very Kewl! Fun!



#628 mcsailor0303

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 09:15 PM

nice work!  Looks like it would be a fun little project!



#629 Gregg28

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:29 PM

Thanks. I will post a pic of the damage and repair when I tare into it.

#630 DRDNA

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:16 AM

next time some East Coast sailor is driving out to So. Cal, just bring me that old Vanguard F.D. I'll re-deck it to be original, then take it up to Elkhorn Composites for some paint.- Buzz can stroll over and see his deck re-buzzed



#631 Carbon

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:06 PM

Here's an ebay find:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...M5YtJSz&vxp=mtr



#632 Gouvernail

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:10 PM

Less than an hour to go and nobody has bid

#633 WCB

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

Here's a decent looking Windmill on Ebay for $595.  There have been some Windmill fans on here before if memory serves.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...x5YvZYr&vxp=mtr



#634 DaveK

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 08:44 PM

https://sanantonio.c...5998196600.html



#635 DaveK

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 08:45 PM

Here's a decent looking Windmill on Ebay for $595.  There have been some Windmill fans on here before if memory serves.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...x5YvZYr&vxp=mtr

Nice!



#636 BobBill

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 09:12 PM

DaveK, re the mystery, might be best to store the dagger...looks to be decent mahogany...for a later application or base or even laminated half hull thingy on wall. Saw the rest up finely and dispose of ecologically. Does not seem to sport decent hardware...if there are blocks...maybe sell 'em.

 

The 'Mill looks decent. Rawhide is quasi rel outfit with camps here and there in WI. I have been to one boat outlet by or near Delaven - Lake Geneva, far from TX.

 

They sell lots of junkers and a few good ones show up now and then. They will deal. Their outlets are all east of I-90 south and north highway 51, which split the state...The 'Mill is intriguing, looks decent...need to look for rot in the tight spots...trailer...? Only one way to know really.



#637 Norse Horse

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:10 AM

Vintage VJ with a patina. I had to look it up to learn about it.

 

https://www.gumtree....60-s/1141019771

Self draining cockpit.$_20.JPG

 

https://vauclusejunior.wordpress.com/

 

http://www.boatdesig...g-vj-33313.html



#638 BobBill

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 08:51 AM

Bland boats advert on eBay... http://www.ebay.com/...M5Y37rv&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/...W9Y4GXU&vxp=mtr

 

One not so bland... http://www.ebay.com/...mRYdbyA&vxp=mtr



#639 High Flow

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:04 AM

Go the NS14!



#640 Steam Flyer

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 12:39 PM

 

 

Go the NS14!

 

Yeah- if that last one weren't in California, I'd be jumping on it.

 

FB- Doug



#641 Norse Horse

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 03:53 AM

It looks like a Luger, but...it is a Mistral 16 or are they inbred...

$_27.JPG

16' 1959 custom sailboat | sailboats | Trenton | Kijiji

 

and what it comes from

**Mistral 16 Sailboat, no cabin, well maintained, | sailboats | Gatineau | Kijiji



#642 Seattle Dinghyer

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:33 PM

https://seattle.crai.../6097420787.html   I know, Tempest's aren't dinghies, but they are close.  I think 3000 dollars is a "bit" high, like 10x too high!



#643 WCB

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:47 PM

I was going to revive the thread myself with this sweet paint job on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/...OtY~jRq&vxp=mtr



#644 WCB

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 05:48 PM

Also not a dinghy but awfully close and this Rhodes 18 on eBay for $10 plus fees is a steal!  Only issue is getting it off the Vineyard.

 

http://www.ebay.com/...HFY9n4i&vxp=mtr



#645 Locus

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 07:33 PM

I was going to revive the thread myself with this sweet paint job on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/...OtY~jRq&vxp=mtr

 

Yes that is the best looking Tasar I have seen. Most are puke yellow or faded baby blue.



#646 Gouvernail

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:15 AM

http://m.ebay.com/it...6.c100408.m2460

I question this one. It looks like a Playcraft Charger Bandit 15.
The hull stripe looks too high to be an MFG

I sorta want to pop a mood off that hull, make a self bailing cockpit. Rig it sensibly and start building a new two person daysailor.... but that one looks awfully hammered for making back perfect before pulling molds

#647 High Flow

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 07:11 AM

http://m.ebay.com/it...6.c100408.m2460

I question this one. It looks like a Playcraft Charger Bandit 15.
The hull stripe looks too high to be an MFG

I sorta want to pop a mood off that hull, make a self bailing cockpit. Rig it sensibly and start building a new two person daysailor.... but that one looks awfully hammered for making back perfect before pulling molds

 

nothing better to do?



#648 Steam Flyer

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 11:55 AM

 

http://m.ebay.com/it...6.c100408.m2460

I question this one. It looks like a Playcraft Charger Bandit 15.
The hull stripe looks too high to be an MFG

I sorta want to pop a mood off that hull, make a self bailing cockpit. Rig it sensibly and start building a new two person daysailor.... but that one looks awfully hammered for making back perfect before pulling molds

 

nothing better to do?

 

 

It's a nice hull but I don't know if it's SO-O nice that it's worth building a new deck and a new rig for.

 

FB- Doug



#649 Gouvernail

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

It is a McAlpine Downey hull. The only problem with the boat was the shit rigging and overweight construction.
The self bailing cockpit isn't all that necessary as the boat sails quite dry.

#650 Steve Clark

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:30 PM

I shared a starting line with a small fleet of Bandits when sailing Rhodes Bantams in the late '70s.  The Bantams were faster, by a couple of minutes around the course. Probably not being sailed by equally qualified crews, our fleet was almost entirely people who finished in the top ten of the National Championships, so the Bantams were probably being sailed as well as they could, and I have no idea how good the Bandit fleet was.

The boats looked nice in a 1960s kind of way, would be very different if drawn today.

I agree with the Gouv, the MFG and Chrysler McAlpine- Downey designs all were pretty nice, but none of them was ever built properly.  Roy Bacon, who ran Chrysler Marine, was one of Rod's biggest fans and early sponsors, but he could never get the production people to do it right. The same can be said of AMF Alcort. If you couldn't use 2 oz mat and 18 oz woven roving, they couldn't ( or wouldn't) build it.  The Kirby designed Apollo and the Hubbard MacLane designed Trac18 were both great boats as prototypes, but took a step down each step toward production. By the time they made it to the public, they were undistinguished pieces of shit like everything else. I remember having long arguments about this, and being told again and again that the customer doesn't care or know the difference.

Ha Ha Ha  ( last laugh)

SHC 



#651 Gouvernail

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:37 AM

Dick Gibbs snd I had many huge arguments about every new MFG sailboat as we set it up for production.
The Sidewinder design called for 175 lbs All rigged. The production boat was around 270
The Copperhead wood prototype weighed about 125 all up and had nice rigging. The production version was over 200

The Wood Bandit 15 prototype was an absolute rocket ship. My wife and I ( girlfriend back then) sailed it at Erie Yacht club, started off to the leeward side of the Thistle fleet start and had a huge lead by the weather mark. We waited and blew by again on the reaches and runs. It sailed more like a 505 than anything else I can remember.
Awaycwe tbthe tapered Proctor mast.
Production: The main and job were made like bedsheets. The chute was entirely non- functional and instead of an all up boat well under 200 lbs, the thing weighed over 400.

Grrrrrrr. I get mad just thinking about it
Every time

We knew how to build damn near indestructible rocket ships and Gibbs insisted on building pigs with his cornball nonfunctional rigging and absolute shit sails.


Look at this 23 foot boat with a lifting keel with a shaved foil and s bulb on the bottom
McAlpine Downey drew the "J-70" in 1970 complete with a "gennaker" on a sprit for downwind and we totally didn't build it
1.jpg

Playcraft Charger had all the molds until sometime after 2000. I repeatedly tried to buy some of them. Some had not been used since the mid seventies and I had left completed parts in the well cared for molds to protect them.
There were at least three sets of tooling for every boats ever built except the Bandit 19 and Cobra. There were
. Pressedcto put the boats together and master plugs ( covered with fiberglass and foam) in case anybody wanted new molds.
I pretty much had given up trying to buy the molds in about 1999 but I called one more time around 2005.

"Oh! That's too bad. We would have given them to you. We bulldozed all the sailboat molds a couple months ago."

They MIGHT have been worth something as great molds from which someone could laminate sensible boats. There is no way it would be worth it to build new molds.

Idiots

#652 Steam Flyer

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 03:10 AM

Well, I had nothing to do with anything except being eager to sail a bunch of different kinds of boats. Not quite a dumb kid in those years but not much smarter or older.

 

When the Sidewinders first showed up, they looked SO cool. Everyone thought they'd be rockets. I loved it until I got a good close look, having been promised a chance to take turns skippering one with the new owner (also a relatively new sailor, he's sailed Sunfish). The rigging looked like cheap crap, the foils looked like bendy cheap crap. I was quite taken aback and thought that perhaps this particular boat had been in a wreck or something. It did not sail that well, I'm sure partly because of the flat plate foils. Later I realized they were all like that. I did not look for another opportunity to sail one.

 

OTOH does anybody remember the Skylark? That was a tunnel-hull ca-rigged boat, about the same vintage. They had a fairly persistant racing class for years. Odd design, built the same way (heavy as shit, rigged with plumbing parts) but they actually moved... largely because it had a huge mainsail. I don't remember who made the Skylark.

 

Somebody gave one of my youth sailing groups an MFG Pintail. Another total piece of shit, it managed to be both tippy and underpowered. After one afternoon of trying to figure out if we could teach with it, we decided to use it only for lessons in the parking lot. In another thread, using a Pintail for snow sledding was mentioned... seemed like a much better use for it.

 

MacAlpine-Downey was a good designer. I'm sailing a Chrysler Buccaneer these days, cool boat. The Nickels built ones are by far the best ever.

 

FB- Doug



#653 BobBill

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 10:39 AM

FWIW, Rod Mac-D rates up there for me as well (Shark) and conceived genius rigs. One of the best.

 

Builders, on the other hand are not so keen.

 

Aye, Pintail was the pits. Knew it standing next to it.

 

And the rig Gouv shows on trailer is slick. MFG? I vaguely recall it, but never had the pleasures.

 

Not being familiar and curious, I did some research. Indeed, the boat appears as Gouv notes.

 

Sad tale and one of many corporate misdeeds where boats are concerned, sadly. You want skullduggery, look to Brunswick management, which must have be a DT self-aggrandizing training camp. Of course, many comparisons, Eddie Bauer in clothing, hatters, all grist.

 

I do appreciate the information, Gouv. Amazing what is learned though some of these sidelights.



#654 Steve Clark

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 03:13 PM

The larger point is that for a long time the "customers don't know any better and don't care" attitude has dogged American commerce for years. You see it everywhere, from misspelling and punctuation in national advertisement, to low quality shoddy products which fail to meet even the lowest standards of their expected performance. We even seem to celebrate this kind of fraud. As long as we persist in selling shit, the American economy will continue to flounder in spite of all of its inherent advantages. Trump and his kind can claim that it is all someone else's fault, but I fear the facts show that American businesses don't respect their customers and are happy to rip them off.

It almost destroyed the US auto industry, which has begrudingly accepted that Detroits quality standards are not good enough to compete globally and are continuing to lose ground in the domestic market. They blame everything else, but the facts are that the damn cars they build aren't as good as the ones the Japanese build.
So if you apply this to the sailboat business, the sale of crap into the market when it was its strongest, convinced a generation of Americans that sailing actually did suck. Or at least sailing anything that wasn't big enough to have a motor and a crapper and since the sails were fucking useless, why not just buy a motorboat and get to where you are going to party faster.

Gouv's and Steam Flyers recollections are in line with my own, and really highlight how remarkable the Laser was when introduced. When I put # 660 in the water for the first time, I thought, "Wow! This isn't a piece of shit! Everything is good enough and works, I don't have to take it apart and rebuild it like I have done with every other new boat I have seen for the last five years." ( I was only 19 at the time so that explains the five year bit......) I recall my Dad writing on the deck of his new O'Day Tempest, after pointing out all the things that didn't work in magic marker " Ralph, I bought a boat. Not a do it yourself kit."
SHC

#655 BobBill

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 03:24 PM

I have to agree, save one thing...

 

I thought the Laser was "not quite the best" (I had one for as long as it took to sell it fast. Maybe 4 weeks. Re, the auto industry...am a retired GM dude. When I first joined them, I was trained to "make the other guy look good!" When that mgmt generation was replace with MBA crew, sadly, what made the place special went to every man for himself...hence its fall...and why I, for first time since I graduated, I have no GM vehicle in the corral.

 

Clark +1. Very good. Appreciated the candor also.



#656 Gouvernail

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:39 PM

Sidewinder came out whenni was 16. All their other boats came out by the time I finished college.

On my first visit to the MFG productuon when I was 12, I crawled inside a Teal or Pintail ( dont remember which) because I wondered what was holding the chain plates

Now before continuing... MFG had just bought Anchor Sailboats because diversification seemed like a good idea.
But!!!
My Dad, an engineer who had just come from American Sterilizer, was the only person in the entire factory who had ever sailed
And
He didn't start racing Snipes until 1956 when he was 33 so he really wasn't particularly good at it or experienced.
So..
I saw two #10 screws holding the chainplate to the deck and wondered how it was fastened beneath.
"Dad!! Look at this!! There is nothing holding the chainplates but the two screws on the deck plate."

"They must not have finished it yet."

"There is nothing under here. There isn't a bulkhead or anything. The mast will fall over the first time it sails"

Luckily, none had been shipped out yet. The finished boats in the warehouse were the same.

All I got was third hand descriptions of the Monday morning meeting:
The Kid found the problem?
He is a way better sailor than I am.
He started when he was five and it is like baseball to him

For the next few years, until we bought Gibbs Boat company, no sailboat went into production until it was "Fred Proofed."

After Gibbs arrived I folded over six Copperhead stub masts and complainedvtgey were too weak. (Coooerheads had a stub mast like a Sunfish but the boom had a fork on the end so the rig looked like a Laser.... which hadn't come out yet.
I finally won my battle to get the stub mast upgraded when I took Robert Morrison's daughter for a ride and we folded the mast over. (Robert is the genius who came up with fiberglass match metal molded Corvette bodies and who owned the MFG companies)

I once built a 100 pound Sidewinder, made a special centerboard trunk for a decent centerboard, added the rudder and rig from my Fireball and spent a weekend flying around. With a 150 pound guy on the trapeze and 160 pound me driving we planed most of the time upwind.

Gibbs insisted I chop it up.

I wanted to sort it out and offer a "super Sidewinder."

Shoulda woulda coulda

#657 Steve Clark

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 04:47 PM

Didn't say the Laser was the best. In 1972, it was so much better it was amazing. Of course in the subsequent almost 50 years there have been highs and lows and some of the late 60s Ian Bruce best guesses have been discovered to be a bit less than adequate for the modern style of hyper kinetic sailing. But "fixing it" is antithetical to the Lasr Class philosophy.
SHC

#658 BobBill

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:10 PM

Mr. Clark, I understand, just that I compared that boat to some other rigs of the era...Sail/Sunfish factory or home built, Kite, Banshee and few others in wood or glass, including a few 14s near Milwaukee.

 

I figured the "great contest" Laser "won," was predetermined ("fixed")! Well designed, I still think the builder messed it.

 

Gouv, excellent! Dig it! Betcha you still feel like: do it myself to be sure its right!

 

As Clark implied, life not like then. (Still have Craftsman snowshovel....from 1966...works still. Stuff not on C-list.



#659 WCB

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:16 PM

How about a $100 or best offer Tempest in Maine?  

 

http://www.ebay.com/...ZJZAcxu&vxp=mtr



#660 Steve Clark

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:04 PM

Well if you were going to save one, a Mader is the one you would start with, although they didn't become the dominant builder until a few years later. In 1972 the front end of the fleet was pretty evenly divided between, O'Days, Bianci& Cecchi, Ricardsons and Maders.
There were no Maders at the US trials in 72. By '76 anyone not sailing a Mader was not serious.
The biggest reason, was that Mader determined that if you made the keel build the minimum weight by not filling the molds all the way, the keel bulb was smaller and thus less draggy. It didn't make any difference to the stability because the boat was sailed flat, and so the ballast never contributed to righting moment.
Other than that, Mader was and is a very good builder whose workers took real pride in building fine racing boats, so the fit and finish was excellent. Also saving weight from the ballast meant that the hull and deck could be a bit "easier" to built to strength and stiffness. These were single skin polyester boats with ribs, so a little thickness went a long way.
SHC

#661 wannabefd

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Posted Yesterday, 04:10 AM

Seems like it is ol' Tempest season.
https://eugene.craig...6087252362.html Attached File  01010_9TTdmjofWNN_1200x900.jpg   104.93KB   0 downloads

#662 WCB

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Posted Yesterday, 10:32 PM

I've always loved Tempests for some reason but the quiver is currently too full to deal with another project.

 

Here's a Lightning in Jersey for $10.00 on Ebay, plus fees.  http://www.ebay.com/...QZZA5bd&vxp=mtr



#663 BobBill

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Posted Today, 08:02 AM

Well if you were going to save one, a Mader is the one you would start with, although they didn't become the dominant builder until a few years later. In 1972 the front end of the fleet was pretty evenly divided between, O'Days, Bianci& Cecchi, Ricardsons and Maders.
There were no Maders at the US trials in 72. By '76 anyone not sailing a Mader was not serious.
The biggest reason, was that Mader determined that if you made the keel build the minimum weight by not filling the molds all the way, the keel bulb was smaller and thus less draggy. It didn't make any difference to the stability because the boat was sailed flat, and so the ballast never contributed to righting moment.
Other than that, Mader was and is a very good builder whose workers took real pride in building fine racing boats, so the fit and finish was excellent. Also saving weight from the ballast meant that the hull and deck could be a bit "easier" to built to strength and stiffness. These were single skin polyester boats with ribs, so a little thickness went a long way.
SHC

Mader...Star boats right? Been long time...memories.






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