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#301 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 04:41 AM

Thanks,

Slowly coming together

#302 hobot

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 09:10 AM

Good stuff!

Thanks for posting the updates.

#303 Py26129

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 02:50 PM

Some shots of the finished bits down below

image_zpsknsaftga.jpeg
 

 

That looks very sweet!



#304 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:20 AM

Fairing pieces made

image_zpssmueodif.jpeg

Rudder milled for stock

image_zpszh5ivi92.jpeg


The sanding and fitting part does pretty much suck, fairing pieces fitted still need to work on the rudder tommorro then milling for the G10 tubes the bolts will go in.

image_zpsbd7v87ms.jpeg

image_zpsjmsdptlb.jpeg

Coupling should get poured Friday and hopefully a glue up early next week then on to shaping

#305 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:23 AM

If only I could find my adjustable reemer.... I pulled it out of a tote in storage and am pretty sure it's somewhere just not sure where. Need to reem the G10 for the bolts and it is not so friendly to work with.....

#306 Ishmael

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:44 AM

Fairing pieces made



Rudder milled for stock




The sanding and fitting part does pretty much suck, fairing pieces fitted still need to work on the rudder tommorro then milling for the G10 tubes the bolts will go in.

image_zpsbd7v87ms.jpeg

image_zpsjmsdptlb.jpeg

Coupling should get poured Friday and hopefully a glue up early next week then on to shaping

 

Just curious...how is the shaft coupled to the rudder blade?



#307 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 03:03 AM

If you look back at the pick of the template you can see 6 lines perpendicular to the stock. The stock is 2.5" nickel bronze, it is drilled and tapped for 6 3/4" nickel bronze bolts that run for the stock centerline to the start of the taper. The bolts are in compression on a G10 tube. The rudder will be milled to fit the G10 tubes and bolts. The coupling is solid with a split upper portion about the same OD as the rudder, the lower portion will be permanat on the stock and part of the glue up. The Stock rudder halves bolts fairing pieces etc will all be bagged in one glue up. Then the whole thing will be shaped and the transition areas filled with thickened epoxy after, the final layup will be infused.

#308 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:07 AM

Little duct tape shimming on the sanding pipe and the stock and fairing pieces final fit.

image_zpsnpcahq8k.jpeg

Rudder stock 1
Tap..0


image_zpsuuw3sfor.jpeg

Good save on getting the broke tap out no damage to the stock.

All the bolts fitted and polished to fit the G10, which proved much easier than trying to reem the tubes.

image_zpsrmgeks4v.jpeg


Starting layout and fitting of G10. It has the unique quality of sounding like dying cats when sanded and destroying tool at a fast rate, lessons learned

image_zpsrp2yris5.jpeg

Tubes all fit, and location layed out for milling in the mourning, will flush and center pien the protruding bolts al well.

image_zpsz7zymbzr.jpeg

#309 Ishmael

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:42 AM

Nice.



#310 Py26129

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:50 PM

Rudder stock 1
Tap..0


image_zpsuuw3sfor.jpeg
 

When I first saw this, I thought I was looking at your rudder shaft.  Glad to realize it's only a tap.



#311 Blitz

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:21 PM

I thought the same thing. Broken taps are a PITA.

#312 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:40 AM

Pretty good day,

Have to say Pete and Cathy have been awesome letting me have some out of the weather space at the foundry to work

Not a bad spot lots of good wood boat juju

image_zpsvqmo9zpv.jpeg


One side milled and so far so good

image_zpslr5uvygd.jpeg


image_zpsg0m6qwhn.jpeg

Transferring to the pattern for the other half, I would like to say I planned it this way but it was dumb luck the pattern is the same as the center ply which made the milling the same on either side just more time on setup for the first one

image_zpsf6ypt3b3.jpeg



Bolts flushed and piened

image_zpshcaveoml.jpeg

#313 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 03:14 AM

And it fit
image_zpsp1hq0uja.jpeg


image_zpskvvaw2lr.jpeg

#314 Py26129

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 03:32 AM

Sass, . Thank you very much for sharing the refit here. It's very interesting to follow.

#315 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:11 PM

It's unlikely but possible someone could find something useful so I'll keep it coming.

Had the first big "Oh shit". As this was a evolutionary process with lots of unknowns I missed a big conflict in our rudder tiller arm. It was shipped from Jeffa and at the time the rudder construction was not certain. So the bulb when off yesterday when showing Pete that it is indeed aluminum and the stock bronze.... So I guess I have a emergency spare since I had it shipped bored and it's mine now. I made a similar mistake when we repowered and I gave the wrong shaft size for the coupling and got to buy two, so at least I'm consistent. Will go over the layup process today and make final adjustments to the rudder shape for this than maybe gluing next week.

#316 Bob Perry

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:38 PM

I think just one "oh shit" is pretty good.



#317 Kris Cringle

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 04:48 PM

I've just skimmed this thread after seeing your latest work. Nice! Your build looks very strong. Quite a process, I'll go through it. 

 

I had to repair my rudder almost 10 years ago. Original John Alden design from 1961. It was stout but nothing last forever. Having rebuilt it, I think it could have been stronger as designed. The weak points were the bolts, and screws, at the connection to the bronze rudder stock. The upper rod threaded into the stock and tightened into the wood takes the bulk of the load). 

 

I couldn't tell I had problems via the steering. It was only on the hard that I noticed play between the rudder and the stock. One by one, the bolts/rods/large screws, were failing at the stock connection. Starts slowly,...then fails quickly. 

 

The bolts/ rods were a bear to remove. I had to jury rig a drill press on a 1/2" drill to bore the largest one out of the mahogany rudder. 

 

32931521376_55166f4ba8_b.jpg

 

To (I hope) improve the design, I went one size up on all the parts(3/8 to 1/2"). That was easy as the bronze rudder stock was oversized and had plenty of size to rebore the holes. 

 

32818090352_f2a677efec_b.jpg

 

This shot before installation shows the bronze trailing edge. The rudder tapers from 2" at the stock to about 3/8" at the edge. 

 

32128596584_5fd3c7dd4a_b.jpg

 

It was nice that the mahogany was fine after all those years, and I could re-use all of it. 

 

32847653131_0a7bffc4a9_b.jpg

 

I now check the play on the hard. So far, so good. 



#318 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:35 PM

That is a big job Kris, pretty nice casting for the stock, the construction method is sort of old and new some good aspects of both I think. Mechanical fastening vs welding is not a bad thing for things underwater. The G10 tubes from my understanding are what some around here have used to address the issue you saw in the fastenings on a completely traditional rudder. The tube is in compression to the stock and the solid wood is glued to the tube. On ours the only difference for it to be traditional solid wood would be the pockets for the nuts would go all the way thru and the elimination of the fairing piece on the front of the stock or making it mechanically fastened. This way in theory the whole rudder would be able to be removed from the stock re beaded etc. We are making it hopefully a little longer lasting l with shipwright in a bottle and micro balloons. We'll see how it goes. I think you are limited on the min trailing edge dimm with solid wood as well.

#319 Anomaly2

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:26 PM

In a now ancient (archived) thread, I documented a somewhat different approach to building a DIY rudder:

 

http://forums.sailin...28469&hl=rudder

 

Post #24 in that thread shows how I used stainless steel drift pins to keep the rudder from slipping on the rudder post. A set of photos are here:

 

http://i868.photobuc...udderBuild9.jpg

 

But the current thread/project has me curious. What is the purpose of the G10 tubes? 

 

Enjoying this thead. Thx.



#320 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:07 PM

This is theory as I'm no expert...

The weak link is the metal to whatever bond, one of the reason water intrusion into the top of a stock is common. The G10 tube is to combine good gluing and mechanical integrity. Without the tube the bolts would be relying on the epoxy metal bond alone for all stress and movement.

With the tube the bolts are compressing a already strong material with the nut to the stock before assembly, the G10 is not relying on glue but mechanical integrity in its connection to the bolts and through them the stock. The G10 has great gluing characteristics and becomes one with the rudder blade in the layup. So connecting the dots seems to make a stronger product, in theory.....

#321 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:20 AM

Finished putting in the bronze pins for the fairing pieces and the final cuttouts before gluing the halves

image_zpsticack1i.jpeg

Saw this on a Verner Herzog documentary of the Taiga in Siberia, so really old school. When they make traditional dugout boats they drive colored plugs in from the bottom for reference when carving the inside. Seemed like a good idea so I put teak plugs on the inside of the center fairing piece where the most shaping will occur to hopefully eliminate too many oops..

image_zpsz0zklqid.jpeg

#322 Pendragon35

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:46 PM

Thank you so much for documenting this. I have an Alberg 35 that clearly is going to need a new rudder within the next year or two. I"m already contemplating whether to go DIY or have it built. What a great job you're doing on both building the rudder and documenting the process.



#323 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:20 PM

Pendragon, it defiantly makes sense to crunch the numbers. This is probably a 50/50 job give or take, we can't afford to have someone do it all so trying to do a lot of the work ourselves, that said there are vender costs, Design, machining and composites. On ours raw materials alone are pretty steep. For a DIY I would say the largest factor is time and work space. If neither are a issue it would make a lot of sense. Having a garage or shop and the boat out of the water not being a significant expense. We have done enough big re-fits on the boat already both ourselves and full vendor I would think this approach is probably about half the cost of hands free depending on the skills of those involved.

#324 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 12:15 AM

Trying to knock the thru hulls out while the rest of the rudder parts are getting made

Moving the exhaust so it's not buried and adding a valve

image_zps7xw5thfi.jpeg

Someone was looking out for me today, took Sunday off as the body was hurting and had a hard start today, just scratched thru the paint when the radar went off for a very near miss....

image_zpsfru1u8xr.jpeg

#325 Panope

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 04:11 PM

Hey Sass, I'm trolling around the boatyard this morning. Care to meet up?

Boat looks great.

Steve

#326 SASSAFRASS

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 11:02 PM

Thanks Steve,

good to meet you

#327 SASSAFRASS

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Posted Today, 02:33 AM

So today was a good day..

Got paint in the pit of despair otherwise known as the lazz

image_zpsmtzg4ilc.jpeg

Wife is in full pro painter mode on the hull stern is primed, seem compound has always been a nightmare affair, got some good advise to do a final coat with Jap drier and penatrol and it was pretty successful.

image_zpsifh6t3ue.jpeg

The bronze bits are coming together tiller arm is ready for machining


image_zps1z3deisl.jpeg

Rudder coupling

image_zpsrg4ueqdg.jpeg

#328 SASSAFRASS

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Posted Today, 02:38 AM

And the fun stuff putting the rudder together

Lower stock with coupling fitted, boring pins

image_zps02xdgqtr.jpeg


Upper stock, it's keyed and the clamping bolts are scalloped into the stock

image_zpsgggncke0.jpeg


Dry run after trimming the wood it still all fits

image_zpsejxydhhb.jpeg


All stock pieces

image_zps3mpzabtj.jpeg

#329 SASSAFRASS

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Posted Today, 02:49 AM

Glue up

image_zpskhd2ijev.jpeg

image_zps1wiprgul.jpeg

And bagged for the night

image_zpsiqowbbr5.jpeg

Added heat blankets after.

On the way home I got a call that all the Jefa stuff had come in a couple weeks ahead of schedule so off to pick it up Monday and we will have all the steering pieces so a pretty good day.




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