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is the Weta any good


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#101 GringoTCI

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:27 PM

Homophobic? hmm..Nope. Not afraid of men.

What question? Well, I am questioning the quality of goods manufactured in China. I am a little embarassed for you, that this thread has gone to five pages and you still have not realized that I question Chinese quality control. I think it stems from this tendency you have to talk about things which you know very little about.

WHAT Getaway thing are you talking about? Have you got this topic mixed up with something else in your mind? I can see how that could happen, with all the things that must be making noises in there.

#102 TheFlash

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:36 PM

Hey Gringo - you're typing on something, right?

Check the Made In sticker. Check your phone, check anything that can be mass-manufactured while you're at it.

Maybe go back to the old Econ 101 books that discuss competitive advantage across nations. There is a hierarchy that's related to the value of the intellectual property. I'm personally glad that we don't have everyone turning wrenches on an assembly line - because we're richer for it. It does cause issues when uneducated cheap labor elsewhere is competing with uneducated labor in the US(or any other developed state) - and there are open and honest debates to figure out what to do about that - but it isn't because the Chinese can't make a good product.


To the original question, yes, the Weta is a well executed build for a design addressing a dual design brief: competitive OD racer; small, easy to store/trailer, fun for the family including small fry, relatively inexpensive, sailboat. Many small boats do one, or the other, well, not many do both. Please realize it's only 14' long, so if you're looking to carry 4 adults and a keg, you need a bigger boat. This is a 2 adult, couple/three kid max sort of boat. More is ok, but crowded.

#103 smart like tractor

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:48 PM

If I am a clown, looks like I found the circus. Were you waiting long?

Hey, if you are a manufacturer, and are now sourcing stuff in China that was once built in the USA....you are manufacturing cheaper junk that you used to. And you know it.
I don't expect you to admit it, of course. you are, after all and like the Chinese, in business to sell this stuff.



You are jumping to conclusions. I do all of my manufacturing in the the USA still, hell, in California even, where it costs me more but is conveniently located close to my main customers. The only thing I use that is made in China are findings, nickel plated clasps to be exact, and they are equal in quality to what I could buy US made but 1/3 the cost. Oh, I do have the occasional glitch where the plating isn't perfect and I have to return some of them for rework, but that could happen with US made materials as well. And it really isn't the material cost so much as it is the plating cost that keeps me from buying US made stuff.

So far as making "cheaper junk"? You don't know what I make, so who are you to judge? Every item I make has always been made with materials from the same suppliers, so for you to declare that it is cheaper junk "than it used to be" is also patently wrong. You are grasping at straws here because you have dug a big giant hole with your mouth that your ass can't back up, not just with me, but with people that have been posting here for some time and who are generally respected for what they post. The whole reason people came up with the DL comparison is because you, like he, are sinking deeper into irrelevancy the more you post and coming up with more inane shit with each successive post, eventually doing nothing more than trying to defend yourself and your craziness by bashing everyone else's perfectly rational posts proving your idiocy. I'll tell what I do make, what I do make is sense, which is far more than what you pretend to make.

I already admitted that not everything made in China is good. But that with the proper quality systems in place, it CAN be brought up to speed. And used both the Nordhavn and the Weta as examples of that. You have yet to respond to the questions of what type of boats your experience is in, other than an inflatable kayak. And so your experiences with Olympus cameras hve been bad. Let me guess, they were probably the cheapest you could buy. My experiences with Olympus cameras have been nothing short of fantastic. I still own an entire set of Olympus film camera bodies (OM-2n and OM-1n) and a ton of lenses for them and they kick ass. They are still worth a lot of money because they were top quality when built and still are today. If you buy cheap shit, expect the quality level commensurate with the price point. Another point I think I made.

#104 bhyde

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:11 PM

Homophobic? hmm..Nope. Not afraid of men.

What question? Well, I am questioning the quality of goods manufactured in China. I am a little embarassed for you, that this thread has gone to five pages and you still have not realized that I question Chinese quality control. I think it stems from this tendency you have to talk about things which you know very little about.


Nobody actually gives a shit what you think about Chinese quality control. It's completely irrelevant to whether the Weta is or is not a quality product. You have been shown again and again that your claim that the Chinese build crap is a sweeping, nationalistic, redneck generalization that has no basis in reality and only a complete fool would assert. Pull your head out, jesus it's not the fucking '60 anymore.

As far as the Weta goes, you have heard from several of the owners and people that have seen and sailed them. No one has questioned the quality or durability of the boat. In fact, most people are amazed that such a high quality boat can be had for the $10K price. I'm personally amazed at the abuse this boat can take over and over again. If you don't believe us, then just go pick up the latest copy of Sailing World in which the reviewers remark at the high quality and sailing characteristic of the boat. Better yet, just go sail one and if you don't like it, then I'll personally send the Chinese government a nasty letter.

The only reason this thread has even approached 5 pages, is because you continue to act like not-so-well educated troll. And that's pretty fucking arrogant considering the company you're in (excluding me). You got questions, ask 'em. You want to be a racist nutsack hillbilly shitball, go to Political Anarchy and have at it.

Good luck with your F-27/Bermuda thing. It's a great boat.

WHAT Getaway thing are you talking about? Have you got this topic mixed up with something else in your mind? I can see how that could happen, with all the things that must be making noises in there.

You're not coming are you? Sniff, sniff...

#105 GringoTCI

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:42 PM

Well, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but if I decide to be a "racist (?) nutsack hillbilly shitball", I wont be asking your permission on where or when to do it. Got that, Skippy?

(where did you get 'racist' by the way? I have moved to a black nation. Most of my friends and neighbors are black. "racist' is a bit of a stretch, even for your pretzel logic).

What Bermuda thing are you talking about?

A snake would get dizzy trying to follow you around.




and don't be stupid. the fact that this thread has reached five pages is a good thing. it's activity on the forum. People are tuning in to read this shit between us. It's entertaining. Almost 2200 visits, for about 130 posts so far. That means for every one who posts, there are another 17 reading who don't.

just doing my bit to help support my happy new home here, at Sailing Anarchy.

Ain't you glad I found the place?

#106 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 12:07 AM

T&C Cholo...

After reading all this inanity from your keyboard, I had a notion to offer you a set of my plans to build the Montage, your own version of the Weta. This would accomplish a couple of things...

1) You'd have a boat very similar to the Weta in every way and you could see for yourself the reasons as to why the initial concept was so inspired.

and

2) Since you'd be required to build it yourself, there'd be nobody in the general vicinity at whom you could sling your bigoted shit about Chinese build quality. Any screwed up mess having to do with the build of the boat would all be right on you.

While this would be a really great way to call you out and force you to come to grips with what it takes to actually build a performance boat, I'm more than afraid that you'd so totally screw it up that it would come back on my design skills.

After further consideration on this whole idea.... I'll take a pass.

#107 Multihauler

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 12:54 AM

While this would be a really great way to call you out and force you to come to grips with what it takes to actually build a performance boat, I'm more than afraid that you'd so totally screw it up that it would come back on my design skills.

C.O.

Sorry dude, but copying the Weta design for the do-it-yoarself crowd is not exactly a raving endorsement of your "design" skills.

Yea, yea, I know, Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all.......... however, there is not much original "design" in offering home-build plans of other's original designs (production boats).

........just calling it as I see it!

Cheers!!!

-MH

#108 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 01:28 AM

Say what you will, my friend, but the Montage is not a copy. The homebuilder market is entirely different from the manufactured boat market. Always has been, always will be.

It's not a copy anymore than a Nacra is a copy of a Prindle is a copy of a.... you get the picture. And there is plenty of design skill involved in order to bring a nicely thought-through boat to market for homebuilders. I'm sure that if you do one up for yourself, you'll see exactly what I mean.

Pick the boat genre you please. In the end, they are all copies of something, according to your position. Makes for a really fun scenario, no? We're all riding around on knock-offs and calling them unique.

Just calling it as I see it.

#109 unShirley

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 02:04 AM

excerpt from a description of the Montage written by Chris Ostlind:
"So, I decided to take a whack at producing a set of plans for a homebuilder’s version of a Weta-like hybrid that could be buildable in the neighborhood of $5600 ready to sail with a new mast, sails and trailer."

Copy of the WETA?

You be the judge. Kinda reminds me of the Bill Clinton defense, "It depends on what your definiton of 'is' is...." or something like that.

BTW: The WETA took a few years to design and included input from several KIWI hotshot sailors....

#110 nige

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 02:14 AM

excerpt from a description of the Montage written by Chris Ostlind:
"So, I decided to take a whack at producing a set of plans for a homebuilder’s version of a Weta-like hybrid that could be buildable in the neighborhood of $5600 ready to sail with a new mast, sails and trailer."

Copy of the WETA?

You be the judge. Kinda reminds me of the Bill Clinton defense, "It depends on what your definiton of 'is' is...." or something like that.

BTW: The WETA took a few years to design and included input from several KIWI hotshot sailors....


I am not normally one to jump to Chris's defense but come on, its a boat, it has three hulls. There is nothing wrong with people building off the concept, the concept will be the same, the boat and lines will be different (I am guessing).

#111 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 02:28 AM

OK, BS and MH...

Here's something to consider if you'd like to mull the reality.

This is an article published in 2004 in Duckworks boatbuilders magazine. http://www.duckworks...a18-t/index.cfm

Mind you, the main hull is complete at this stage and the amas were well underway. The piece shows a boat of my design which is decidedly wider and shallower of draft than a typical trimaran and illustrates the build of the prototype in my shop. The boat has a very performance oriented slant to it with the use of a Hobie 16 rig and assy. spin. The actual performance envelope is very Weta-ish in nature.

Clearly, I was already working on a design motif that easily could be morphed into the design take for a Weta-like boat, or any homebuilt version of a Weta. That was more than 6 years ago... and completely independent of any work that was eventually done by the talented guys at Weta.

I'm not going to cast any aspersions towards the guys involved out of New Zealand, as I think that their boat is damn cool and touches on a very distinct market component. They have earned everything they have at present and the effort is to be lauded. I'd like to own one myself.

As long as we're on the wire, here, and you guys want to use the opportunity to toss a few grenades... maybe you could show me the righteously original boats you have designed and built that set the boating world on fire... ;-)

Neither one of you have addressed the basic issue that there are so precious few original ideas out there floating around and yet, there are literally, several hundreds of boat designers all working away at producing good works on a daily basis. As you can see already, original is a relative term.

Here's an invitation to both of you. Come on over to Salt Lake City in the next month or so. You can use any of the various design software packages I own and I'll even sit in with you while you bang-out an original design that can be built in your garage. I'll give you a place to sleep, you can share meals with me and my wife and every once in awhile, we'll head on up to the slopes to blast some fresh pow. By your comments, this shouldn't take you but a day, or so. You won't have to be away from your jobs and/or families for very long and all of us can bask in the brilliance of your skill sets when you present the effort right here on Sailing Anarchy for all the dudes to see.

You guys up for that?

... and thanks, Nige. Both boats are different than the Weta specs, the Montage being bigger in every dimension. The Collage is decidely larger at 18' LOA and addresses a market niche that I see as a viable commercial, as well as homebuilder project.

#112 unShirley

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 04:39 AM

CO,

so defensive
I'm not deriding your creativity or design talent. In fact, I'm digging on your last post on the power trimaran topic. I want one of those...How much for the plans?

But back to the topic at hand. I googled the Montage, read about it, and then pointed out, that by your own admission, you were attempting to create a home build version of the WETA for the budget DIYers.
All I did was call BS on one of your statements using your own words. I'm Cap'n BS, remember? It is what I do ;)

I not sure which comment I made that implied I was capable of sitting down in your design studio and creating something that would allow "all of us (to) bask in the brilliance of (my) skill sets." Perhaps that imaginative figment is yet another example of your creativity? Dude, back off, mellow out. I think you need to go shred some more powder.

.

#113 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 05:02 AM

Ahh, now BS switches to the passive aggressive font in his library.

Yes, you are Cap BS and I was simply calling you out on your BS. Go read it again. It says Weta-like, as in... Weta-ish, as in Weta-sorta, as in.... not an exact knock-off of a Weta. There's nothing BS about any of that, you just wanted to make a thing about it for who knows what reason.

The whole thing was a mild jab at the anti-Cholo, a poking of the Caribbean piglet to have some fun, for duncing Chinese-made products, like the Weta, so heavily and had nothing at all to do with my work in a fundamental fashion.

Come-on, Bubba, there's this taste in the air on this site for doing the ungracious pile-on. I know, I've done it myself a few too many times and yeah, it is fun. But, you can also expect that someone who gets the treatment will offer-up their own brand of a comeback, or you wouldn't have any respect.

So, now that we've had our garage session fun, what d'ya say we get back to the Anti-Cholo's stance? And I wasn't, at all, riled-up about this. More like just engaging in a mild tweak here and there, but I figured you guys could take it.

And you can still hang out here and go skiing if you want. We seem to be getting an inordinate number of friends this season who got the powder bug and my wife is a good sport.... well, to a point, anyway and then I get a mild earful.

CO

#114 Surf City Racing

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 06:18 AM

So, I decided to take a whack at producing a set of plans for a homebuilder's version of a Weta-like hybrid...


There are a lot of small 'weta-like' tris hitting the water these days. These small, family oriented boats are are taking their fair share of the sailing market right now to say the least. Business wise, it's definitely a good thing to focus on, they obviously fill a niche. This one sells probably 30 to 1 compared to fiberglass cats:

Posted Image

And the newest one.

Posted Image


J

#115 Africat

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:12 AM

Jeremy: Can you get these Hobie Islanders up on one amas, BOR-style? Or is there not enough sail area to fly the center hull? (I assume it's the latter.) Either way, it's nuts to think the Islander range would outsell fiberglass Hobies 30-to-1.

Now, more directly relevant to this thread, how is the Islander selling in comparison to the roto-moulded Hobies like the Getaway and the Wave?

#116 GringoTCI

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 12:54 PM

Hobie has a tandem Islander now? Cool!

the reason we bought the i14T from them was because it was tandem . I wanted two Adventure Islands, but we wanted a tandem and it wasn't an option last year.

the sail on the i14T is basically just a crutch to help you move it along when you're lazy. It's only 20 sq. ft. and I wouldn't even try to use it in over 8-10 kts of wind. It'll just head you up into the wind anyhow.

But four and a half times the sail, a centerboard, and two Mirage drives...

we'll be buying one of these.

#117 bhyde

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 03:33 PM

excerpt from a description of the Montage written by Chris Ostlind:
"So, I decided to take a whack at producing a set of plans for a homebuilder’s version of a Weta-like hybrid that could be buildable in the neighborhood of $5600 ready to sail with a new mast, sails and trailer."

Copy of the WETA?

You be the judge. Kinda reminds me of the Bill Clinton defense, "It depends on what your definiton of 'is' is...." or something like that.

BTW: The WETA took a few years to design and included input from several KIWI hotshot sailors....


I am not normally one to jump to Chris's defense but come on, its a boat, it has three hulls. There is nothing wrong with people building off the concept, the concept will be the same, the boat and lines will be different (I am guessing).

Tell you what I'd like to see. A 16'-18' tri with F-18 level all-out performance. Maybe a two-crew setup with twin traps, rotating mast, spin on a retractable pole with a single-line retriever, and scary sa/d numbers. Would be a real design challenge to keep the complexity in check while making the package easy to assemble and transport (like a Weta). Maybe $18-25K for a complete setup?

A single-handed, powered up F-16 level tri would also be interesting, and in many ways, probably a better idea. A $15K-19K price point would definitely get me to reach for the checkbook.

When I talked to Chris K @ weta marine the last time he was out, he subtly alluded to something in the 16' 17' range that might be brewing on the horizon. Be interesting to see if it turns out to be a Turbo-Weta geared towards multiple use family fun or a more dedicated race machine. Just have to wait and see.

#118 Surf City Racing

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 04:53 PM

Jeremy: Can you get these Hobie Islanders up on one amas, BOR-style? Or is there not enough sail area to fly the center hull? (I assume it's the latter.) Either way, it's nuts to think the Islander range would outsell fiberglass Hobies 30-to-1.

Now, more directly relevant to this thread, how is the Islander selling in comparison to the roto-moulded Hobies like the Getaway and the Wave?


Naw, They're pretty tame (compared to the BOR 90 ;) ). The Island is most likely selling more than the rotomolded cats, but I don't really have data. The island is super simple. Someone that has never sailed can be taught to proficiently sail the thing in about an hour. The mirage drive removes the stress, so people just hop on and sail it. It's definitely not the fastest thing on the water, it simply wasn't designed for hauling arse. I have however had it going 12 knots downwind before. It's just a fun, simple, rotomolded (virtually indestructable), roller furling, fairly safe little rig. And for what you get, they're not that pricey.

Everytime my Island customers go out, I can rest assured that I'll have either a halibut fillet or some rock fish on the BBQ for dinner. A guy came back with a tuna one time. Nice.

j

#119 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 05:26 PM

Tell you what I'd like to see. A 16'-18' tri with F-18 level all-out performance. Maybe a two-crew setup with twin traps, rotating mast, spin on a retractable pole with a single-line retriever, and scary sa/d numbers. Would be a real design challenge to keep the complexity in check while making the package easy to assemble and transport (like a Weta). Maybe $18-25K for a complete setup?

A single-handed, powered up F-16 level tri would also be interesting, and in many ways, probably a better idea. A $15K-19K price point would definitely get me to reach for the checkbook.



I've been working on a design, off and on, for the last few months that is very much along those lines.


Attached File  Europa_aft_obl_w.jpg   66.56K   47 downloads


This is a boat that picks up many of the design cues from the maxi-tri, Sodeb'O and translates them to a 20' beach tri size for two-up shredding. Like Sodeb'O, the amas are shorter, these being 18' LOA. The assembled beam is 16'. The whole, demounted package easily complies with trailering limits.

At present, the rig is specced from a Tornado, complete with chute as you describe, with plenty of room for a nastier setup for the hair on fire crowd. As it is, the SA/D figure is 40 without a trick rig. For comparison, I estimated the Multi23 with a crew of three adults to have a SA/D of 45

There's no prodder at present, but one could be massaged into the design. The rig is set a bit aft of the typical setup one would see on a boat like this. This should help resist any pitchpole potential at speed amd wehn coupled with the full ama forms which are at 200% of displacement, it's going to take a good deal of main sheet abuse to put this dude over.

The daggerboard angles back from the foredeck and is quite high aspect and deep, as the boat is meant to fly the main hull if the crew has the sack. Provision for ama mounted rudders has been allowed in the design, but is not shown in the rendering. Akas are hard mounted to the amas and are slip fit into receivers in the main hull, for easy assembly and trailering. The cockpit is self draining and opens aft to the sugar scoop through generous drain holes.

All three hulls have moderate, wave-piercing bows with sections that narrow as they rise. Immediately after the initial wave pierce form, the amas transition to increasing volume above the waterline. All decks are rounded for water shedding, especially forward of the main beams.

Construction is in vertical stripped foam core with bagged, or infused, glass laminates, though the boat could easily be built in carbon in the same fashion. I peg the all-up boat weight at right around 500 pounds with a 1000 pound displacement figure. There's even room here for a very small, retractable 2 hp outboard mounted in the scoop.

This is a very easily setup boat with great potential for very fast sailing for two. It uses easily obtained materials and is built with a well-known and accepted methodology for straight-forward build by any guy with modest composite experience.

A smaller version is also possible.

Chris O

#120 TheFlash

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 05:31 PM

i could get into something like that.

I would go for the high horsepower kite - would be interesting to think of whether that would be a roller furling genniker type thing or an assym and sock arrangement.

And - I could build it in the garage - I've got just enough room.

#121 Rhino 15

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 07:13 PM

If you ever get out on a race course with beach cats you'll be very disappointed. The Weta is very slow. Even in the Bay in heavy air the kiteless Nacras and Prindles lap them on twice-arounds.

Bzzzz, I call bullshit.

The last heavy air race I was in out of RYC (Totally Dinghy - Sept '09) didn't have any single-handed Nacras or Prindles. At least I never saw one and none were signed up. There were however 4 Nacra 5.8's and a Prindle 19 MX in that event. And of those boats, none of them even came close to lapping me, let alone lapping me twice. In fact, in a couple of the races I beat some of them to the weather mark and finished within a minute or two of them. And how many of the cats/I14's/Contenders/29ers/ICs went for a swim? None of the Wetas did. Even the Weta driver with exactly zero previous races under his belt managed to complete all three races without breaking a sweat. In the last year of racing in the SF Bay I've have never been lapped by any boat, skiff or multi, on a typical twice-around Double Sausage or Olympic course - in any conditions. And we usually are last in the starting sequence. The Weta is not that slow. If you ever get out on the race course with beach cats and it's blowing 20 with 2 foot chop, you'll have a blast on the Weta - not so much fun on a 5.8 I'm guessing.

I'm not bad mouthing the Cats. There is no doubt the Weta is not as fast as a Nacra 5.9 or Prindle 19. Put them on the line together in most conditions, and they'll win hands down - no question. It's also not as fast as an A-Cat or a 49er or an I14 or an F18 or a Tornado or many other boats. Then again these aren't single handed-boats, so it's pointless to even make the comparison. The Weta is not intended, and should not be construed, as a racing machine. Although we have great OD racing in SF, it's a general purpose, fun boat that can be handled by most anyone with a little small boat experience in just about any conditions. It's just a great grab 'n go boat and giggly fun when it's nukin'.

Btw: We really liked seeing the Nacras and Prindles at RYC. It's been a long time since multis, other than the Wetas, have been seen in force at RYC. I'm not sure why. I would greatly encourage our Cat brothers and sisters to come race in the upcoming season. RYC rocks for small boat sailing and we need to see more cats and tris.


Sorry, but I was there too, and the Wetas did get lapped on the ACAC and ABCAC courses (lapped once, not twice). And lots of boats (not just multis) were going over between races in part because they had to wait forever for the Wetas to finish. And those were the conditions that Wetas should be fastest in relative to beach cats.

#122 TheFlash

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 07:41 PM

I only sailed mine on Sat, and there was no lapping involved then.

Certainly the wetas are not the fastest thing out there, but not the slowest either.

#123 Surf City Racing

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 08:24 PM

At present, the rig is specced from a Tornado, complete with chute as you describe, with plenty of room for a nastier setup for the hair on fire crowd.
Chris O


For a homebuild project it's pretty smart to use existing and fairly plentiful rigs and fixtures. What about an acat rig?

j

#124 Rhino 15

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 08:57 PM

I only sailed mine on Sat, and there was no lapping involved then.

Certainly the wetas are not the fastest thing out there, but not the slowest either.


Trust me, when you're cold and getting knocked around by wind and waves after the finish while watching another boat you started with still heading for the windward mark, you remember these things.

#125 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:22 PM

For a homebuild project it's pretty smart to use existing and fairly plentiful rigs and fixtures. What about an acat rig?



Kinda small, even with an added jib.

CO

#126 sfsportboat

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:51 PM

Chris,
I'm working on a homebuild myself of my own design (Stitch n glue). I would dearly love to mount some straight pipes as you show for AKA's but am worried about them not having enough clearance over the chop as I've read about here and there. Making them curved and angled into the AMA's is much more technically challenging of course.

How do you account for that?

My boat is roughly 15.5 ft and the freeboard on the center hull is about 15". AMA's only exist in CAD at this pt.

Hoping you talk me into straight AKA's!

#127 bhyde

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:54 PM

Sorry, but I was there too, and the Wetas did get lapped on the ACAC and ABCAC courses (lapped once, not twice). And lots of boats (not just multis) were going over between races in part because they had to wait forever for the Wetas to finish. And those were the conditions that Wetas should be fastest in relative to beach cats.

Well, all I can say is that no boat lapped me and no boat lapped Tim (#252 I think), since we were pretty much match racing most of the time. One of the Weta owners was in his first race (on any boat mind you, with 20+ breeze and steep chop), so maybe he got lapped. Not really sure, I lost track of him after the start. Good on you if you did.

Boats were capsizing because they were waiting for us? Hmmm, okay, if you say so. However, RYC's RC generally doesn't hold a start for a straggler or two unless they can see the boats are within a reasonable time from finishing (The I14 Rule). If we get a couple more Nacras this year, I'm pretty sure RYC can give you OD starts or at least a mixed Cat fleet start. You just need five boats. I'm pretty sure we'll have 10 or so Wheaters, so we'll get separate starts. Should alleviate any pre-start issues.

#128 bhyde

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:58 PM

I only sailed mine on Sat, and there was no lapping involved then.

Certainly the wetas are not the fastest thing out there, but not the slowest either.


Trust me, when you're cold and getting knocked around by wind and waves after the finish while watching another boat you started with still heading for the windward mark, you remember these things.

Mitch and I have spent untold hours on I14's upside-down at start lines, up course, at weather marks, and just leaving the dock. Trust me, we know how it feels.

#129 Stephan Sonnenschein

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 10:39 PM

Sorry, but I was there too, and the Wetas did get lapped on the ACAC and ABCAC courses (lapped once, not twice). And lots of boats (not just multis) were going over between races in part because they had to wait forever for the Wetas to finish. And those were the conditions that Wetas should be fastest in relative to beach cats.

Well, all I can say is that no boat lapped me and no boat lapped Tim (#252 I think), since we were pretty much match racing most of the time. One of the Weta owners was in his first race (on any boat mind you, with 20+ breeze and steep chop), so maybe he got lapped. Not really sure, I lost track of him after the start. Good on you if you did.

Boats were capsizing because they were waiting for us? Hmmm, okay, if you say so. However, RYC's RC generally doesn't hold a start for a straggler or two unless they can see the boats are within a reasonable time from finishing (The I14 Rule). If we get a couple more Nacras this year, I'm pretty sure RYC can give you OD starts or at least a mixed Cat fleet start. You just need five boats. I'm pretty sure we'll have 10 or so Wheaters, so we'll get separate starts. Should alleviate any pre-start issues.


I am the owner of that 'slow' Weta during that race. I have no idea about being lapped or anything I was just happy to have a basic orientation on the race course and find all marks and make it around. It was my first race - I had some sailing experience before but not in a dinghy and not in any race. I'm sorry if I might have caused others to wait but I would suppose that the RC keeps an eye on that and just starts the next race if somebody is unacceptable slow for whatever reason - the water was full of capsized boats anyways most of them near the weather mark where wind and waves were the worst. But as bhyde said the problem will be solved by one design starts soon. I'm also a little faster now as the some results of the following St. Francis Dingy Fall regatta show :) So I think the speed potential of the Weta for a boat of that size single handed is very acceptable - to me it often feels really fast and amazingly controllable in rough conditions, I like it a lot.

#130 Rhino 15

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 11:08 PM

Sorry, but I was there too, and the Wetas did get lapped on the ACAC and ABCAC courses (lapped once, not twice). And lots of boats (not just multis) were going over between races in part because they had to wait forever for the Wetas to finish. And those were the conditions that Wetas should be fastest in relative to beach cats.

Well, all I can say is that no boat lapped me and no boat lapped Tim (#252 I think), since we were pretty much match racing most of the time. One of the Weta owners was in his first race (on any boat mind you, with 20+ breeze and steep chop), so maybe he got lapped. Not really sure, I lost track of him after the start. Good on you if you did.

Boats were capsizing because they were waiting for us? Hmmm, okay, if you say so. However, RYC's RC generally doesn't hold a start for a straggler or two unless they can see the boats are within a reasonable time from finishing (The I14 Rule). If we get a couple more Nacras this year, I'm pretty sure RYC can give you OD starts or at least a mixed Cat fleet start. You just need five boats. I'm pretty sure we'll have 10 or so Wheaters, so we'll get separate starts. Should alleviate any pre-start issues.


I am the owner of that 'slow' Weta during that race. I have no idea about being lapped or anything I was just happy to have a basic orientation on the race course and find all marks and make it around. It was my first race - I had some sailing experience before but not in a dinghy and not in any race. I'm sorry if I might have caused others to wait but I would suppose that the RC keeps an eye on that and just starts the next race if somebody is unacceptable slow for whatever reason - the water was full of capsized boats anyways most of them near the weather mark where wind and waves were the worst. But as bhyde said the problem will be solved by one design starts soon. I'm also a little faster now as the some results of the following St. Francis Dingy Fall regatta show :) So I think the speed potential of the Weta for a boat of that size single handed is very acceptable - to me it often feels really fast and amazingly controllable in rough conditions, I like it a lot.


Sorry guys, didn't want to sound like I was bitching.

Let me just say that based on the talk I've heard about the Weta, I can't help but think that some people are going to buy it expecting much better performance than it actually offers. And maybe RCs should think twice about starting it in an "open multihull" class rather than one of the dinghy fleets just because it has more than one hull.

#131 eric e

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 11:11 PM

Attached File  Europa_aft_obl_w.jpg   66.56K   47 downloads


looks good Chris

is that an off-center dagger or mast?

but the mix of wave piercing amas and flat beams on a performance tri...

the weta will happily bury an ama and not trip up as the beam is so much higher on it's elbow

but even then the beams get a alot of water at speed, even in a smoothish seasstate, presumably your amas will have a higher buoyancy percentage than the weta, but will that be enough or just mean a rough ride...

watch the amount of water hitting this weta's high beams



#132 Crabalocker

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 11:44 PM

Thanks, Eric

Yeah, the beam orientation is always going to be one of the head scratching elements to deal with in the design stage... and then you get to go through it all over again when the boat sails initially.


Attached File  Europa_bow_obl_w.jpg   70.5K   26 downloads



For my purposes, looking to place the design into the homebuilder arena, ease of material acquisition and ease of build are deal breakers for the average builder of a boat like this. The rest of the thing is all about design balancing for expected end use.

Am I willing to take higher aero drag/windage in exchange for primary water clearance? How much of the ama will see submerged action on a regular basis and can straight akas be doable in that context?... and a whole list of stuff that revolves around the topic of ama/aka/water interface.

I also looked at every video clip I could possibly absorb regarding boats of this type of design. I looked at Seacart 30, the Multi 23, F-22, L7, etc. clips to see how their aka-to-ama style relationships were working, since those boats are most closely linked to what I was going for in terms of form, as well as sailing behavior.

I like a lot of the secondary design benefits such as, having the gunnel-to-tramp-to ama on a continuous plane and that the builder doesn't have to find a mandrel bender ( I prefer to not use the hard angle aka solution as seen on the Weta, even though it works well for that boat) or build a box beam in a jig and then shape leading edge foam prior to glassing. I have used those approaches for other boats and while they are quite doable, I wanted to try something different on this one.

Lastly, the main hull on this design is not one with a lot of its own form stability, whereas the Weta, with its more dinghy-like hull form, does have that stability going for it. As a result, the Weta can get away with somewhat smaller amas than an equivalent tri. The amas on my boat have 200% displacement buoyancy and 21" of waterline clearance at rest, so they are going to work a lot differently than those on the Weta.

I'm of a mind that just about every small multihull, if sailed at its performance potential, is going to give you a certain degree of "wetness". It goes with the game.




#133 bhyde

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:04 AM

Sorry guys, didn't want to sound like I was bitching.

Let me just say that based on the talk I've heard about the Weta, I can't help but think that some people are going to buy it expecting much better performance than it actually offers. And maybe RCs should think twice about starting it in an "open multihull" class rather than one of the dinghy fleets just because it has more than one hull.

It's no big deal. And you're absolutely right about what peoples expectations are about performance. If you're currently in an 18'-20' performance cat (Nacs, 'Nados, Hobs), you aren't going to be thrilled with the Wetas performance. But keep in mind, and this is the whole point, the Weta is not a double trap boat, it's a single hander. Trust me, if I lived near a nice warm water beach, I would probable have a pile of cats - A-cat, F-18 would be on the short list. I'd also have the Weta for those days when my crew is in the hospital (often) or when I just want to sail by myself. I suppose an F-16 would do the job, but that would be a real handful in typical SF bay conditions. I just don't want to work that hard.

At any rate, it's all good to me. Bring the Cats, bring the Tris, bring the beer.

#134 Fasterdamnit

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:37 AM

At any rate, it's all good to me. Bring the Cats, bring the Tris, bring the beer.


I have a new sig line!

#135 pacice

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:04 AM

Thanks to every one for their comments. - It's been very helpful.

I have taken the plunge and purchased a Weta. I pick it from Roger Kitchen on Tuesday.
It was the small times that impressed me. Such as the colour coded bags and sheets for each sail.
The complete pack, beach trolley and cover is all included.
Also the boat sailed really well - not as fast as my NACRA F17, but it is the perfect boat for my kids. I will also have lots of fun on it.

I am looking forward to fun solo sails, teaching the kids to sail, and joining in the club racing on the weekends.

But for serious racing and high speed sailing, I will still be using the NACRA.

As for the quality - it's as good as any I've seen.
From personal experience, made in the US of A is no guarantee of quality. Neither is made in NZ.

#136 eric e

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 10:24 AM

Thanks to every one for their comments. - It's been very helpful.

I have taken the plunge and purchased a Weta. I pick it from Roger Kitchen on Tuesday.
It was the small times that impressed me. Such as the colour coded bags and sheets for each sail.
The complete pack, beach trolley and cover is all included.
Also the boat sailed really well - not as fast as my NACRA F17, but it is the perfect boat for my kids. I will also have lots of fun on it.

I am looking forward to fun solo sails, teaching the kids to sail, and joining in the club racing on the weekends.

But for serious racing and high speed sailing, I will still be using the NACRA.

As for the quality - it's as good as any I've seen.
From personal experience, made in the US of A is no guarantee of quality. Neither is made in NZ.


congrats

if you haven't already found it there is a weta forum at

http://groups.yahoo....Weta-Trimarans/

#137 unShirley

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:07 PM

It was the small (things) that impressed me. Such as the colour coded bags and sheets for each sail.
The complete pack, beach trolley and cover is all included.
Also the boat sailed really well


Me too. I think it is indicative of how well thought out the entire boat is.


Enjoy :D

#138 bhyde

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:13 PM

Thanks to every one for their comments. - It's been very helpful.

I have taken the plunge and purchased a Weta. I pick it from Roger Kitchen on Tuesday.
It was the small times that impressed me. Such as the colour coded bags and sheets for each sail.
The complete pack, beach trolley and cover is all included.
Also the boat sailed really well - not as fast as my NACRA F17, but it is the perfect boat for my kids. I will also have lots of fun on it.

I am looking forward to fun solo sails, teaching the kids to sail, and joining in the club racing on the weekends.

But for serious racing and high speed sailing, I will still be using the NACRA.

As for the quality - it's as good as any I've seen.
From personal experience, made in the US of A is no guarantee of quality. Neither is made in NZ.

Right on.
Next time it's looking a little scary for the Narca, take the Weta out - you'll giggle like a schoolgirl.

BTW: there are bunch of little tweaks the group has come up with to make the boat even easier to rig and sail. Put an intro post in the Yahoo group, if you haven't already, and someone will give you the dope.

#139 ducky

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 04:50 PM

enjoying this thread, how does the weta preform in 8-10? compared to prindle/hobie 16 ect.

#140 WetaDubai

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 04:58 PM

On the made in question...

The two #1 cards in the recent cash for clunkers were, an American car, and an Oriental one.....

The American one was the clunker (Ford Exploder) and the Oriental one was the new purchase, (Toyota Camry) - Built in the good old US of A, but to Japanese / yellow / slanty eyed standards..

Maybe there is a lesson there?

And I know CN not = JP.....

And then of course, there is Chang Poole and Schmidt... Sorry Denny....

Looking forward to hearing the feedback on the purchase...

an Irishman in Dubai...

#141 GeorgeP

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 04:44 AM

I can put this lapping nonsense to rest. I was on a Hobie 20 in the RYC midwinters in the same start as the WETAs. I was concerned that we might lap them, but this not the case. In the first race we started last and sailed through the entire fleet except for the one 49er. When we finished Mr. bhyde had rounded the weather mark and had his spinnaker up. The WETAs finished well into the dinghy fleet having started last.

On the second and third start we had capsized boats on the starting line. One went over at the start, one was a boat coming down wind. At least one of these delayed the multihull start. This might have resulted in a WETA finishing last, but not by much and the race committee always has the option to go ahead and start the next fleets. That is why they have separate start finish lines.

I have not heard the WETA guys making exaggerated claims of speed. They have said it is a fast, fun, easy to sail boat. I think the boat is fast when compared to boats in its size range. If you are expecting 18 foot beach cat speed you are not being realistic.

I think the solution for the RYC midwinters is for all the mutihulls to start together and for the WETAs to use the Laser (inner) weather mark. This way, they would finish at the same time as the 18-20 foot beach cats.

I have not yet sailed a WETA, but I am looking forward to trying one. I have given them a look over and I they look pretty good to me.

Stephan, please don't let Whistler's comments keep you from the RYC midwinters. If I had been out on an I14, on that day, I would be a bit cranky too.

#142 bhyde

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 04:52 PM

I can put this lapping nonsense to rest. I was on a Hobie 20 in the RYC midwinters in the same start as the WETAs. I was concerned that we might lap them, but this not the case. In the first race we started last and sailed through the entire fleet except for the one 49er. When we finished Mr. bhyde had rounded the weather mark and had his spinnaker up. The WETAs finished well into the dinghy fleet having started last.

On the second and third start we had capsized boats on the starting line. One went over at the start, one was a boat coming down wind. At least one of these delayed the multihull start. This might have resulted in a WETA finishing last, but not by much and the race committee always has the option to go ahead and start the next fleets. That is why they have separate start finish lines.

I have not heard the WETA guys making exaggerated claims of speed. They have said it is a fast, fun, easy to sail boat. I think the boat is fast when compared to boats in its size range. If you are expecting 18 foot beach cat speed you are not being realistic.

I think the solution for the RYC midwinters is for all the mutihulls to start together and for the WETAs to use the Laser (inner) weather mark. This way, they would finish at the same time as the 18-20 foot beach cats.

I have not yet sailed a WETA, but I am looking forward to trying one. I have given them a look over and I they look pretty good to me.

Stephan, please don't let Whistler's comments keep you from the RYC midwinters. If I had been out on an I14, on that day, I would be a bit cranky too.

Thanks George.
This is kind of the point we're trying to make. Comparing the Weta with the 18-20' cats is kind of like comparing an I14 with a Laser; they're two entirely different boats with two entirely different purposes. The Weta, in my mind, is the multihull equivalent of a Laser - not particularly fast, but simple and easy to sail with the added bonus of being multipurpose. In races the differences between fast boats and slower boats is more about time in the boat and technique than technology, just like a Laser.
When Weta Marine starts building an 17'-19' double trap version of the Weta (please, please), then we can start comparing it with beach cats. Box rule T-18 class anyone?

#143 Stephan Sonnenschein

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 06:18 PM

I can put this lapping nonsense to rest. I was on a Hobie 20 in the RYC midwinters in the same start as the WETAs. I was concerned that we might lap them, but this not the case. In the first race we started last and sailed through the entire fleet except for the one 49er. When we finished Mr. bhyde had rounded the weather mark and had his spinnaker up. The WETAs finished well into the dinghy fleet having started last.

On the second and third start we had capsized boats on the starting line. One went over at the start, one was a boat coming down wind. At least one of these delayed the multihull start. This might have resulted in a WETA finishing last, but not by much and the race committee always has the option to go ahead and start the next fleets. That is why they have separate start finish lines.

I have not heard the WETA guys making exaggerated claims of speed. They have said it is a fast, fun, easy to sail boat. I think the boat is fast when compared to boats in its size range. If you are expecting 18 foot beach cat speed you are not being realistic.

I think the solution for the RYC midwinters is for all the mutihulls to start together and for the WETAs to use the Laser (inner) weather mark. This way, they would finish at the same time as the 18-20 foot beach cats.

I have not yet sailed a WETA, but I am looking forward to trying one. I have given them a look over and I they look pretty good to me.

Stephan, please don't let Whistler's comments keep you from the RYC midwinters. If I had been out on an I14, on that day, I would be a bit cranky too.


No problem there at all. Whistler himself said 'Sorry guys, didn't want to sound like I was bitching.' (see above)
I'm looking forward to a couple of races next season. Time in the boat seems to be one key factor for speed and I'm planning to spend a lot of time in the boat once its stops raining here. So my goal is that at next RYC midwinters you'll find me in the 'unexposed' middle of a then possibly 10 boats large Weta racing fleet :)

#144 WetaDubai

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 06:33 PM

I can put this lapping nonsense to rest. I was on a Hobie 20 in the RYC midwinters in the same start as the WETAs. I was concerned that we might lap them, but this not the case. In the first race we started last and sailed through the entire fleet except for the one 49er. When we finished Mr. bhyde had rounded the weather mark and had his spinnaker up. The WETAs finished well into the dinghy fleet having started last.

On the second and third start we had capsized boats on the starting line. One went over at the start, one was a boat coming down wind. At least one of these delayed the multihull start. This might have resulted in a WETA finishing last, but not by much and the race committee always has the option to go ahead and start the next fleets. That is why they have separate start finish lines.

I have not heard the WETA guys making exaggerated claims of speed. They have said it is a fast, fun, easy to sail boat. I think the boat is fast when compared to boats in its size range. If you are expecting 18 foot beach cat speed you are not being realistic.

I think the solution for the RYC midwinters is for all the mutihulls to start together and for the WETAs to use the Laser (inner) weather mark. This way, they would finish at the same time as the 18-20 foot beach cats.

I have not yet sailed a WETA, but I am looking forward to trying one. I have given them a look over and I they look pretty good to me.

Stephan, please don't let Whistler's comments keep you from the RYC midwinters. If I had been out on an I14, on that day, I would be a bit cranky too.


No problem there at all. Whistler himself said 'Sorry guys, didn't want to sound like I was bitching.' (see above)
I'm looking forward to a couple of races next season. Time in the boat seems to be one key factor for speed and I'm planning to spend a lot of time in the boat once its stops raining here. So my goal is that at next RYC midwinters you'll find me in the 'unexposed' middle of a then possibly 10 boats large Weta racing fleet :)


OOOOHH - what I wouldn't give to be in the middle of a 10 boat Weta fleet - only mine and one other one here, and it doesn't race, it mostly.. just.. eh.. sits on the dolly, and when it is in the water it just, er... hits things.. (very sad ...)

GO Weta....

#145 bhyde

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 07:14 PM

OOOOHH - what I wouldn't give to be in the middle of a 10 boat Weta fleet - only mine and one other one here, and it doesn't race, it mostly.. just.. eh.. sits on the dolly, and when it is in the water it just, er... hits things.. (very sad ...)

GO Weta....

Sounds like you need to start a little Wednesday Night Match race with the other owner. Pint of Guinness would be worth racing for, right? Nothing worse than a boat, any boat, that just sits and rots (most do).

#146 pacice

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 07:34 PM

In Tauranga, the small multis started completing with the Keelers in the Wednesday night races. - up to 20 hours long.
a year ago, there would be an average of 4 multi's, now we are getting a mixed fleet of 10, ranging from a 10.5m racing cat down to Hobie 16's.
Given the range of boats, the racing can be very close sometimes


So get out and race, and others will come.

I will save the NACRA for these longer races, and use the Weta for the centreboard round the buoys racing. While the NACRA is faster, the weta is more more controllable, so should be safer among the Opti's.

#147 unShirley

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 08:24 PM

I, too, make no claims that a WETA is as fast as a larger beach cat. However, I have sailed over 16 knots per hour on mine (according to my GPS) in wind that was only in the mid-teens. I know I have gone faster than that on other days but don't have the GPS read out to prove it.
Regardless, tho, of whatever the actual, recorded speed may be, Gennaker reaching in 18 knots of winds with 3' following seas will make even the most stoic, jaded old tar giggle like a little school girl.

#148 pacice

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 12:59 AM

I know my NACRA F17 is fast, as I can sail pass everything else on the harbour.
In some conditions, it seems to be twice as fast as a Hobie 16. On a high speed tight reach, the same speed as a Hobie.
Under the Kite, It will sit on 15 to 20 knots all day, but it's not what the wife and kids want.
The big thing is goes from slow to go very quickly - It is not a family friendly boat to sail.
Last week We pitchpoled going upwind (20 to 25kt's) - a slight bear-away to go under a keeler, and it was all over.We also snapped a daggerboard going downwind, but thats another story!

After the test sail on the Weta, in 10 to 15kt's of wind, I was impressed with the speed. It was fast and it was fun. And it was easy to sail.
I when out with my two kids, and it did what I wanted it to do.
Steering was great, set up as easy and quick. On the water there was plenty of warning and there was never a feeling of this is going over or getting into any trouble.
I then when out by myself and pushed it. I was surprised how well it went with the lee float a meter (3 feet) underwater. It just kept going fast.
Going upwind it was balanced and responded to good trim and sailing.
Around the course, it is likely to be close to a Hobie 16. -maybe faster upwind and possible slower reaching, but you won't capsize 5 times in a race.

I feel this boat will be the Hobie 16, or the Laser of the next decade.
It is the sort of boat that will bring people back sailing - It is that good!

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#149 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 01:58 AM

I know my NACRA F17 is fast, as I can sail pass everything else on the harbour.
In some conditions, it seems to be twice as fast as a Hobie 16. On a high speed tight reach, the same speed as a Hobie.
Under the Kite, It will sit on 15 to 20 knots all day, but it's not what the wife and kids want.
The big thing is goes from slow to go very quickly - It is not a family friendly boat to sail.
Last week We pitchpoled going upwind (20 to 25kt's) - a slight bear-away to go under a keeler, and it was all over.We also snapped a daggerboard going downwind, but thats another story!

After the test sail on the Weta, in 10 to 15kt's of wind, I was impressed with the speed. It was fast and it was fun. And it was easy to sail.
I when out with my two kids, and it did what I wanted it to do.
Steering was great, set up as easy and quick. On the water there was plenty of warning and there was never a feeling of this is going over or getting into any trouble.
I then when out by myself and pushed it. I was surprised how well it went with the lee float a meter (3 feet) underwater. It just kept going fast.
Going upwind it was balanced and responded to good trim and sailing.
Around the course, it is likely to be close to a Hobie 16. -maybe faster upwind and possible slower reaching, but you won't capsize 5 times in a race.

I feel this boat will be the Hobie 16, or the Laser of the next decade.
It is the sort of boat that will bring people back sailing - It is that good!

Not bad for a Chinese Junk Huh? Just wait until its really blowing with lots of waves - you'll have permagrin and you won't break any parts.

Quick Go Fast Tip: Wear the harness and hike off the side with your butt on the top of the amas just behind the shrouds. The harness will support your back for hours of strain-free sailing and your adoring fans will think you're some kind of Ubersailor. And it's really comfy.

#150 another 505 sailor

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 02:17 AM

I, too, make no claims that a WETA is as fast as a larger beach cat. However, I have sailed over 16 knots per hour on mine (according to my GPS) in wind that was only in the mid-teens. I know I have gone faster than that on other days but don't have the GPS read out to prove it.
Regardless, tho, of whatever the actual, recorded speed may be, Gennaker reaching in 18 knots of winds with 3' following seas will make even the most stoic, jaded old tar giggle like a little school girl.


As a point of reference, I think it was StFYC spring dinghy last year. 12-15 knots breeze, in the 505 we were trapping, 3 sail reaching, full planing in relatively flat conditions. The Wetas were going pretty much the same speed and angle, and while we were working pretty hard, it looked like they were just cruising along, no drama, and probably could have had a beer in hand.


They look like fun. But I can't get the joke about mopeds and fat chicks out of my head, sorry.

#151 munt

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:09 AM

dear mr. ostlind, yer new tri idea sure looks nice, I love the weta but I needs something a little bigger such as the red hot rod portrayed... Is there any chance of getting it in some partially built or kit form for those of us too lazy or mentally challenged to construct such? And you men of weta, are these guys really gonna produce a bigger version? When?

#152 eric e

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:44 AM

dear mr. ostlind, yer new tri idea sure looks nice, I love the weta but I needs something a little bigger such as the red hot rod portrayed... Is there any chance of getting it in some partially built or kit form for those of us too lazy or mentally challenged to construct such? And you men of weta, are these guys really gonna produce a bigger version? When?


i'm guessing here

but i suspect weta will have looked very closely at a scaled up version

and then realised that it would cost almost double to produce....

and so are keeping an eye on the market

and the world economy

it is a much, much more complex boat than a hobie getaway or even an f16 viper

as for chris's tri's

the basic ideas and design seem to be there

but the parts and implementation seem still to be done

i think it took weta 9 years to get from a similar stage to 50 boats in the water

most weta customers don't have another 10 years to wait

#153 hokie

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 02:09 PM

dear mr. ostlind, yer new tri idea sure looks nice, I love the weta but I needs something a little bigger such as the red hot rod portrayed... Is there any chance of getting it in some partially built or kit form for those of us too lazy or mentally challenged to construct such? And you men of weta, are these guys really gonna produce a bigger version? When?


I'm sure this kit has been mentioned on the forum, or at least the L-7 has: http://multimarine.c...detail.php?id=5

#154 Crabalocker

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 03:51 PM

dear mr. ostlind, yer new tri idea sure looks nice, I love the weta but I needs something a little bigger such as the red hot rod portrayed... Is there any chance of getting it in some partially built or kit form for those of us too lazy or mentally challenged to construct such?




About the kit potential for the Europa: I suppose the boat could be made as an unfinished product in modular form. There might be some serious issues to haggle with regarding liability and that kind of crap, but, yes, it could be done that way for the guy who is willing to put in some sweat equity. From a business model perspective, there would be all sorts of stuff to crunch as to just where in the process does profit kick-in.




as for chris's tri's

the basic ideas and design seem to be there

but the parts and implementation seem still to be done





I think you are right about this, Eric. The big design elements have been brought together, all of the numbers have been crunched and the boat does make sense, technically and aesthetically, but there are a bunch of little things yet to sort. For example... Yesterday, I worked on the demounting/trailering issues and completed the design work on the aka beam-ends for easy assembly.

I know that you don't care for straight beams, or more specifically, you suggest that there might be a problem with straight beams in concert with reverse bow/wave piercing shapes up front. I don't disagree with your argument, Eric, but I have some answers.

Because this boat has been primarily designed for homebuilders, I am looking for ways to cut down on the complexity of the elements, so that my buddies in the Joe-Six-pack gang can pull it off without having to become a master of forming and composites to do so.

Aesthetically and functionally, I'd rather go with curved beams, but the ease of build question is always hovering there in my face as a pragmatic condition that has to be met. After looking at the Seacart 30, the L7 and virtually every beach cat out there with a decent performance potential, I came to the conclusion that straight beams aren't going to be much of a hindrance, as long as other design elements are addressed at the same time.

As a result, the ama height was raised, very early on, for additional sea clearance that gets the straight beam setup away from the water's surface. I also get more ama buoyancy from what is, essentially, a fairly low profile boat for a trimaran. The wave piercing bow shapes aren't really all that radical compared to some that are out there. I flipped the bow sections so that the fuller forms were carried down low, much like those on the Groupama 3 and SYZ cat, (though not as hard core) and the thinner sections were up on the deck. The shapes only exist that way for the first three feet of the ama moving aft and then they quickly transition to more traditional forms all the way to the transom.

I'm looking to derive most of the benefit of the piercing style bow while not thinning-out the amas to the point where they are asking to be driven down the mine

I know that is a kind of longish answer to the suggestion you posed earlier. I hope that it answers that principal concern with something more than "well, that's the way it is, so lump it". Mind you, that these straight beam comments pointedly apply to a homebuilder design. A production version might be soemwhat different in solution.

Lastly, I expect this boat, like all the others I have done, will continue to morph along as fresh ideas and different build technology come to pass.



#155 Crabalocker

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 03:57 PM

Now, to steer this discussion back to a Weta kind of topic...

You guys probably know that I pulled together a design for a larger, 18' boat for homebuilders that has similar characteristics. http://www.lunadades...om/collage.html The first example of that design, the Collage, is just about to start building in New Zealand. I'll post regular progress reports.. with photos.. as the project moves along.

And now, back to our regular programming

CO

#156 unShirley

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 04:50 PM

Because this boat has been primarily designed for homebuilders, I am looking for ways to cut down on the complexity of the elements,


KISS: how about eliminating the cockpit in the main hull and make it similar a third (larger) ama. Wouldn't that simplify building and reduce weight quite a bit? Most of the time while sailing one will be on the windward tramp anyway.

BTW: I have read before that WETA is reluctant to build a bigger boat because one of the highest priority design parameters for the current boat was that it be easily assembled and disassembled by one person. However, I also have had email correspondence with Roger Kitchen that implies that they are always open to new ideas if there is a market for the product.......

#157 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 06:01 PM

As a point of reference, I think it was StFYC spring dinghy last year. 12-15 knots breeze, in the 505 we were trapping, 3 sail reaching, full planing in relatively flat conditions. The Wetas were going pretty much the same speed and angle, and while we were working pretty hard, it looked like they were just cruising along, no drama, and probably could have had a beer in hand.

Wait a minute! You can drink beer while you're sailing? What the hell was I thinking! I thought you only did that on big, fat keel boats.

Note to Self: Add beer cozy to trampoline, port and starboard.

They look like fun. But I can't get the joke about mopeds and fat chicks out of my head, sorry.




At the StFYC Regatta I was rounding the weather mark with a 49er crewed by a friend of mine Mikey from RYC. He always gives me shit about the Weta. I was overlapped with the 49er and they were on the inside nosing out. As we rounded the mark, I set my kite, which takes all of about 2 seconds, while Mikey jumped into the middle of the 49er and started hoisted his kite. It took him a few more seconds to get the kite up and it allowed me to drive right over the top of him. Once he got back on the trap he looked back expecting to see me several boat lengths behind lumbering along. Then he looked ahead and realized I'd blown right by. He smacked his hand to his forehead, shook his head in disgusts, and said, "Oh my God, I can't believe I just got rolled by a Weta!" In my best Will Ferrell Talladega Nights imitation I said, "Yeah, that just happened!" We laughed our asses off. True story.

#158 TheFlash

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:17 PM

Chris, probably a different thread - and I know you know this stuff but

ama tops same as bottom, therefore 1 mold for all 4 bits.

center hull stitch and glue?

keep the cockpit for family friendliness and the beer cooler

Set it up so that a homebuilder can get a local CNC shop to deal with mold/frames

straight pipes for the cross arms likely work - but sexy beams are much nicer, and could be easily made box beams, no?

I like it - possibly enough to give it a go once I finish my little stitch and glue kayak/canoe.

#159 TheFlash

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:19 PM

Note to Self: Add beer cozy to trampoline, port and starboard.



Make sure you have beer in both cozys, don't want to have to tack the beer.

go Mikey!

#160 Mike T

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 07:32 PM

Bob H
Bob, I thougt you made some carbon gimbaled beer holders for your the wetta? Mitch: great idea keep a beer cozy on each side of the boat Nice! Keep up the good PR work guys! warm winds Michael

#161 Multihauler

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:23 PM

Now, to steer this discussion back to a Weta kind of topic...

You guys probably know that I pulled together a design for a larger, 18' boat for homebuilders that has similar characteristics. http://www.lunadades...om/collage.html The first example of that design, the Collage, is just about to start building in New Zealand. I'll post regular progress reports.. with photos.. as the project moves along.

And now, back to our regular programming

CO


You stated this same thing on your web site almost 5 months ago. (now removed???) <_<

....also, I emailed you a couple of times regarding this design, and never received a response. :angry:

Maybe now that DL is gone, you will have some time to catch up on your old email. ;)

Just sayin.....

-MH

#162 unShirley

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 08:30 PM

Re: Beer Cozies.

You're better off wearing one of those double beer bong helmuts the frat boys wear to FB games. It will keep the salt water out of your beer and add more live ballast outboard for trim.....I'm just saying.....

now, if somebody comes up with waterproof cigarettes and porn we can take multi tasking to a new level

#163 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:12 PM

Bob H
Bob, I thougt you made some carbon gimbaled beer holders for your the wetta? Mitch: great idea keep a beer cozy on each side of the boat Nice! Keep up the good PR work guys! warm winds Michael

No, no, no...don't be silly. You're thinking of the gimbaled camera mount

(gimbal not shown)


Carbon construction goes without saying...

Anja The Dominatrix will just sew the beer holders into the tramp.

#164 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:14 PM

...and don't forget the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots

again, carbon


#165 TheFlash

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:19 PM

Dude! Crazy mofo

#166 Crabalocker

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:19 PM

Just sayin.....


OK, OK. I probably deserved some of that. Consider the point made.

My apologies for not responding in a timely fashion. It was about that time that I was punching out plan pages for the cruising cat that is being built in Greece and I was in over my head with work. No complaints, I asked for it... and I got it.

You're right, there was a builder all ready to go with the Collage back then and it fell in the toilet, well outside my control. There can be lots of tire kicking in this business. It's kind of like being in a war, you sit around and sit around and then it all goes sideways and the air seams a long way away.

Anyway, I back-burnered the project until I could get clear of the other clutter and just recently, a Kiwi gentleman stepped-up looking to build. That's why the comment, as well as looking to get the thread off my red tri and back into more stuff Weta.

If you are still interested, MH, please rephrase the questions in an email and I promise to be responsive.

Chris
Chris@Wedgesail.com

#167 Crabalocker

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:21 PM

...and...the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots



Very nice. Did you fab that clamp mount?

#168 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:25 PM

Dude! Crazy mofo

And if gimbaling isn't your thing. If you want a more"raw" feeling in the video, there is always the suction cup cam



Mount it anywhere you want. Transom, foredeck, anywhere...

#169 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:28 PM

...hell you can even see how crappy you steer!



Mitch! Quit spasming out on the tiller!

#170 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:31 PM

...and...the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots



Very nice. Did you fab that clamp mount?

It's been raining like piss for the last week and I was bored shitless.



#171 brownie

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:36 PM

You stated this same thing on your web site almost 5 months ago. (now removed???) <_<

....also, I emailed you a couple of times regarding this design, and never received a response. :angry:

Maybe now that DL is gone, you will have some time to catch up on your old email. ;)

Just sayin.....

-MH


How odd, I thought it was just me who didn't get a response from Chris Ostlinds website.

That build in Greece seems to be taking ages, anyone know if the boat got completed and seen any pictures of it sailing?

Let us know if you do actually get any plans. :rolleyes:

#172 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:45 PM

You stated this same thing on your web site almost 5 months ago. (now removed???) <_<

....also, I emailed you a couple of times regarding this design, and never received a response. :angry:

Maybe now that DL is gone, you will have some time to catch up on your old email. ;)

Just sayin.....

-MH


How odd, I thought it was just me who didn't get a response from Chris Ostlinds website.

That build in Greece seems to be taking ages, anyone know if the boat got completed and seen any pictures of it sailing?

Let us know if you do actually get any plans. :rolleyes:

...wait for it...

#173 unShirley

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:26 PM

Hey BH,

can you turn the transom mounted camera around so you can get a pic of me? You'll need a zoom lens

#174 Multihauler

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:27 PM

It's been raining like piss for the last week and I was bored shitless.


Hmmmmmm,..............still raining out today.

Should give you plenty of time for a F-27 mount or two. ;) :D :lol:

Cheers!!!

-MH

#175 Stephan Sonnenschein

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:42 PM

...and don't forget the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots

again, carbon


WOW! I'm really impressed. Congratulations that looks fantastic. Is this carbon part a modification or did you build it from ground up = laminate it?

#176 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:51 PM

Hey BH,

can you turn the transom mounted camera around so you can get a pic of me? You'll need a zoom lens

Yeah right. I'm not really sure I'm going get away with the Beating-Up-On-the-Newbie thing ever again. Next regatta I'm probably going to have to cheat much more than usual. You did find the big lump of tape I put on your daggerboard right? The guy you might have to worry about is Chris (RYC Chris, not Chris Kitchens). He's got really good speed and sails quite often. He just needs to stop splitting from the fleet when he is behind.

#177 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:09 PM

...and don't forget the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots

again, carbon


WOW! I'm really impressed. Congratulations that looks fantastic. Is this carbon part a modification or did you build it from ground up = laminate it?

MH, I'll bring it Sunday. We can use the suction cup thingy and stick it somewhere on the boat. Aft cabin top maybe? I tried sticking it to my forehead, but all I got was a massive headache and a really hard to explain hickey.

Stephen,
No it's from scratch. I wrapped some fiberglass around the spin pole to make a tube. Then split the tube, added 'ears', a block, and wrapped the whole thing in carbon. Added a couple thumb screws, and presto, you got yourself some high-tech camera stuff. I didn't use a vacuum bag or any whale products.

Here was my first attempt at the stern camera mount. I have no idea what I thinking.



This thing just got worse and worse the more I tried to make it work. It actually started to make my wife laugh. Garbage Can!

#178 Crabalocker

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:13 PM

Hyde,

Is all that stuff GoPro, or do you have some other goodies in the grip bag?

Are you shooting the HD wide rig and is the picture quality holding up on a good monitor, or does it show big problems, such as color aberration, barrel distortion in the corners?

How is the ocean working on the metal parts? Do you tether the rig against loss?

CO

#179 bhyde

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:51 PM

Hyde,

Is all that stuff GoPro, or do you have some other goodies in the grip bag?

Are you shooting the HD wide rig and is the picture quality holding up on a good monitor, or does it show big problems, such as color aberration, barrel distortion in the corners?

How is the ocean working on the metal parts? Do you tether the rig against loss?

CO

It's the new HD GoPro. Check the sample HD vids on the wed site. Really cool. The automotive package has the super-suc-o-matic suction cup and a bunch of extra mounting stuff. In non HD mode (720p, wvga, etc, 60fps) it's field of view is about 170 degrees. That f'ing wide. In full HD it's 127 degrees at 30fps. On the bowsprit mount I fully expect to see the entire boat, including the top of the mast. The stern mount gets the entire boat forward of the transom and about 3/4 of the mast.

Shephen also has one, so we'll get plenty of raw footage this year for Weta, Sailing Moped of The Sea - The Movie (Director's Cut). Might actually be a nice little training tool too.

I haven't had a chance to put it on the boat yet (it's f'ing raining like piss), but I did stick it to my car and drove around town and on the freeway. It's a little unnerving having a new toy stuck to the top of your car not really knowing if it's still attached. Got a few weird looks from my fellow motorist.
Hooked the camera to a nice 52" hd monitor and played it back. Very impressive. It looks like they put in some stabilizing firmware. Picture is rock solid. Color is ok. Optics are good since wide angle lens are pretty forgiving of quality issues. For YouTuber work it's overkill.

Not too worried about the metal, it's all stainless and I have more. I made a little lanyard out of some scrap specta that attaches to the base of the mount, it ain't goin' nowhere.

#180 eric e

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 01:10 AM

very nice camera mounts mr.hyde

can't wait to see the vids they produce

have you thought of a mast top clamp as well?

i've been trying to work out how to get my camera up there

a bit tricky as the sail track and halyard take up all the space, maybe bonding a small carbon mount to the side of the mast would work?

as this thread as already wandered around a bit i'll chuck in a couple extra bits i've posted elsewhere but are still related to this thread, video a really good way to show off sailing these boats

1st is a very good waterproof camera review for those not going the go-pro way

http://www.dpreview....aterproofgroup/

and some videos made with such cameras

http://www.vimeo.com/5075989

http://www.vimeo.com/5258062



and a gps video



#181 bhyde

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 01:25 AM

No problem making the mount. We have the technology. Turning the camera on is the real problem - no remote. Any ideas?

#182 eric e

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:58 AM

No problem making the mount. We have the technology. Turning the camera on is the real problem - no remote. Any ideas?


aaahhhhhhhhh

was forgetting that's why i had bought the option W-series in the 1st place

they have a delayed start function so you can program them to turn on and start recording video after, say 20minutes, which gives you enough time to attach them to the mast/prodder and get out to sailing area without wasting battery life or card space

for stills there is also an interval shoot mode which will take a pic every 10sec-99min and either save them as a stop motion movie or individual stills

Attached Files



#183 Mike T

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 03:09 AM

Bob
Well done! Very Nice job with the camera mounts! Cheers! Michael

#184 bhyde

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:06 PM

No problem making the mount. We have the technology. Turning the camera on is the real problem - no remote. Any ideas?


aaahhhhhhhhh

was forgetting that's why i had bought the option W-series in the 1st place

they have a delayed start function so you can program them to turn on and start recording video after, say 20minutes, which gives you enough time to attach them to the mast/prodder and get out to sailing area without wasting battery life or card space

for stills there is also an interval shoot mode which will take a pic every 10sec-99min and either save them as a stop motion movie or individual stills

The delayed start is a nice feature the HD GoPro doesn't appear to have. However, it does have firmware that can be downloaded to add extra features in the future. It also has a mysterious expansion interface slot for "future improvements." Be nice if that was a waterproof remote control. I'll email GoPro and suggest they put the delayed start in the next rev.

BTW: That camera looks way too big for your head.

#185 WetaDubai

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 06:39 PM

...and don't forget the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots

again, carbon

Off the point again, but what size / type of line have you on the furler?
I have had a few jams at most inappropriate times (when else?), and have taped the bottom of the spool (not much good) - best option so far has been to keep tension on the line during release. Looking at lifting the 'guide loop' too - have you already done this to give a better retrieving angle on the drum?

#186 eric e

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 10:28 PM

i think the current factory recommendation is to skip using the "guide loop" at all, that and tape on the bottom of the furler helped my jamming issues

but most of my issues were simply linked to asking the furler do too much

ie furling/unfurling on a reach where the wind pressure was too much

heading down to take the pressure off really does help, though it can feel like wasted time

#187 unShirley

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 06:26 AM

Looking at lifting the 'guide loop' too - have you already done this to give a better retrieving angle on the drum?


Yes. I merely put two very small shackles on the guide loop and run the furling line thru the top one. I used two so the furling line wouldn't bind. I haven't had any problems since.

#188 WetaDubai

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 03:36 PM

Looking at lifting the 'guide loop' too - have you already done this to give a better retrieving angle on the drum?


Yes. I merely put two very small shackles on the guide loop and run the furling line thru the top one. I used two so the furling line wouldn't bind. I haven't had any problems since.


Will try it at the weekend - have a few tiny shackles that should do the job. Will be out with some of the serious multi guys from a nearby club, and don't want the boat looking stupid on it's first outing with the cats (don't mind if I look dumb, but the Weta doesn't deserve it!)

And another change of tack - anybody asking their clubs to submit race results to have the PY /SCHRS handicap adjusted? I am on my own here, so the club is not bothered (until I start winning races which will be no time soon!)

R.

#189 WetaDubai

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:02 PM

Looking at lifting the 'guide loop' too - have you already done this to give a better retrieving angle on the drum?


Yes. I merely put two very small shackles on the guide loop and run the furling line thru the top one. I used two so the furling line wouldn't bind. I haven't had any problems since.


Will try it at the weekend - have a few tiny shackles that should do the job. Will be out with some of the serious multi guys from a nearby club, and don't want the boat looking stupid on it's first outing with the cats (don't mind if I look dumb, but the Weta doesn't deserve it!)

And another change of tack - anybody asking their clubs to submit race results to have the PY /SCHRS handicap adjusted? I am on my own here, so the club is not bothered (until I start winning races which will be no time soon!)

R.



#190 TheFlash

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 05:39 PM

Wrap some tape around the shackle so it stands up straight when there isn't any load on the furling line.

#191 bhyde

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 02:51 AM

...and don't forget the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots

again, carbon

Off the point again, but what size / type of line have you on the furler?
I have had a few jams at most inappropriate times (when else?), and have taped the bottom of the spool (not much good) - best option so far has been to keep tension on the line during release. Looking at lifting the 'guide loop' too - have you already done this to give a better retrieving angle on the drum?

Sorry for the delay mcf, I'm traveling right now with an employer that has the unrealistic expectation of productivity - Hah!
The line is just 1/8" spectra tapering to 3/16" at the cleat. It's a lot smaller than the line that comes with the boat so you can get a lot more raps on the furler and avoid the Out-of-Line-but-the-Kite-isn't-in-Scenario. You may think that 1/8" or 3/16" line is too small, but if you can't pull that size line, the spin is not unloaded enough. Never had a problem, even in big air. You just need to make damn sure the sail is unloaded. The extra wraps on the furler allow you to really get a nice, tight furl, which will help the upwind program.
I also tried taping the bottom of the furler as suggested, but found adding one small shackle with some tape works better. It causes the line to feed to the top of the furler instead of the bottom, which is where boogers live. I could never keep the tape on the bottom of the furler once I crashed into a few waves. In lighter air I think you could do it either way. The tape on the shackle also creates a little friction that helps tension the line as it enters the furler and prevents snarls from getting to the drum. It works good enough that I literally just blow the line from the furler cleat and let it fly. Very fast and no tangles (yet).

#192 another 505 sailor

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 02:08 AM

As a point of reference, I think it was StFYC spring dinghy last year. 12-15 knots breeze, in the 505 we were trapping, 3 sail reaching, full planing in relatively flat conditions. The Wetas were going pretty much the same speed and angle, and while we were working pretty hard, it looked like they were just cruising along, no drama, and probably could have had a beer in hand.

Wait a minute! You can drink beer while you're sailing? What the hell was I thinking! I thought you only did that on big, fat keel boats.

Note to Self: Add beer cozy to trampoline, port and starboard.

They look like fun. But I can't get the joke about mopeds and fat chicks out of my head, sorry.




At the StFYC Regatta I was rounding the weather mark with a 49er crewed by a friend of mine Mikey from RYC. He always gives me shit about the Weta. I was overlapped with the 49er and they were on the inside nosing out. As we rounded the mark, I set my kite, which takes all of about 2 seconds, while Mikey jumped into the middle of the 49er and started hoisted his kite. It took him a few more seconds to get the kite up and it allowed me to drive right over the top of him. Once he got back on the trap he looked back expecting to see me several boat lengths behind lumbering along. Then he looked ahead and realized I'd blown right by. He smacked his hand to his forehead, shook his head in disgusts, and said, "Oh my God, I can't believe I just got rolled by a Weta!" In my best Will Ferrell Talladega Nights imitation I said, "Yeah, that just happened!" We laughed our asses off. True story.


Sweet. There's something satisfyingly challenging trying to perfect an imperfect system. But it is pretty ridiculous watching a 505 gybe vs a dinghy with an asymetric. Or the Weta "hoist" vs a 49er hoist. It looks like the Weta just makes it all easy from the get go. I like it, but I don't ride fat powder skis either.
For beverage holders, I suggest the l'il Sucker
Posted Image

but if that doesn't work, amend the racing rules to allow foam domes as a class.
Posted Image

#193 CH2

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 01:17 PM

...and...the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots



Very nice. Did you fab that clamp mount?

It's been raining like piss for the last week and I was bored shitless.



Designed and manufactured in the USA. You wouldn't get quality like that from China...


(Couldn't resist)

#194 bhyde

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 03:51 PM

but if that doesn't work, amend the racing rules to allow foam domes as a class.
Posted Image

Been working on my own design for the tough marine environment. This is just the prototype being tested at the local Catholic middle school.



The final version will have a much larger capacity and, of course, be all carbon.

BTW: In an effort to save every possible gram, I tested light beer vs. normal beer and found they weigh exactly the same. WTF?

#195 WetaDubai

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 04:55 PM

Totally off topic... but what the hell

I got lapped today ! - head held in shame....

3-6 kts of wind - lots of F16 / F18's Spitfires & Hobies, and other big sail stuff

I need "The complete idiots guide to upwind (and downwind) in light wind in a Weta)" - I was trashed - pulled out of three races on second lap to avoid the embarassment of everyone waiting for me to finish :( ....crap.... :(

10+ forecast for second day though....

#196 TheFlash

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 05:04 PM

It's rough. it just doesn't have the horsepower some of those other boats have.

Did you try wing on wing downwind?

#197 Surf City Racing

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 02:34 AM

Does it go faster downwind wing n wing?

I got lapped today ! - head held in shame....

3-6 kts of wind - lots of F16 / F18's Spitfires & Hobies, and other big sail stuff


Don't feel bad, man. It's going to take some practice learning the boat. As said in this thread you can't expect the WETA to compete with any of those boats that you mentioned, it's like apples and oranges, the boat wasn't built for that. Racing it against the F18s and F16s is like putting some family sedan like a Honda up against a Formula race car. Get a fleet and race one-design or find some Windriders to beat up on if it's important to you.

#198 Strategery

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 03:00 AM

Does it go faster downwind wing n wing?

I got lapped today ! - head held in shame....

3-6 kts of wind - lots of F16 / F18's Spitfires & Hobies, and other big sail stuff


Don't feel bad, man. It's going to take some practice learning the boat. As said in this thread you can't expect the WETA to compete with any of those boats that you mentioned, it's like apples and oranges, the boat wasn't built for that. Racing it against the F18s and F16s is like putting some family sedan like a Honda up against a Formula race car. Get a fleet and race one-design or find some Windriders to beat up on if it's important to you.


I've felt your pain. The Weta is an incredibly fun boat to sail...wait till others buy them in your area and you'll be having some great OD racing in no time...

I miss mine for sure...

C.

#199 eric e

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 01:26 PM

Totally off topic... but what the hell

I got lapped today ! - head held in shame....

3-6 kts of wind - lots of F16 / F18's Spitfires & Hobies, and other big sail stuff

I need "The complete idiots guide to upwind (and downwind) in light wind in a Weta)" - I was trashed - pulled out of three races on second lap to avoid the embarassment of everyone waiting for me to finish :( ....crap.... :(

10+ forecast for second day though....


hi mfc,
hard to help without knowing more

but here are a few things to you may not have thought of

light air in pretty much any modern small dinghy, laser/420 etc. you want to get forward enough to lift the cutoff transom out of the water. they are very draggy and getting them just out of the water is essential in light air for most efficient speed

lateral positioning also very important on the weta, in light air you should be able to almost sail without either outrigger touching the water. the wide dinghy style planning hull has far more buoyancy than bigger performance tri's with their narrow deep v'ed main hulls. if just sit out on the beam or tramp when the wind isn't there to support you the low volume float will go deep and cause considerably more drag than is needed

for upwind, after positioning you need your sails as flat as possible, ie lots of downhaul and the jib in as hard as you can without stalling it

then nicely flowing telltales and smooth rudder work

don't get tempted into reaching off for speed as all the books say, feels fast but on a 14' boat the vmg turns to mud

downwind, get forward again, get the dagger up as far as you can without fouling the sail and sail deep for best vmg, the flat reacher can be let right out and if it's an upwind/downwind race with little reaching you might want to reposition the reacher blocks so they are more forward and outboard than standard to enable the reacher to hold a deeper pocket, it's very easy to change the block position on the weta so experiment

time on boat helps a lot

but if you want to do well in races against bigger boats you will need to race them more

#200 MauganNacra20

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 03:47 AM

...and...the gucci bowsprit mount for those wide-angle action shots



Very nice. Did you fab that clamp mount?

It's been raining like piss for the last week and I was bored shitless.




Wow

Way too fancy. Making me feel 3rd world over here. I just strap mine to the side of my boom with a ceiling fan 90' angle junction box.

Works great there.




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