393 replies to this topic

[Strategery]

It is a great shame that Weta Marine and TC Design / Tim Clissold the designer of the Weta parted company as one would have expected perhaps a big brother to the Weta to come on the scene at some stage offering more speed and thrills for those looking for a bigger boat from the same designer.
Today I came across that TC Design / Tim Clissold Weta big brother but it’s from another builder, it’s the Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (21 feet) by the Andaman Boatyard and it has just gone into production. Have just one picture. Looking forward to the sea trials!

That's basically a Multi 23... looks almost identical. That didn't go so well...

Is there a way to fold/demount the amas easily? That is the killer...

[tikipete]

I don't know about complicated. No traveler, no boom, nothing to induce prebend, roller furling. Not many boats simpler than that, which permits the sailor to focus on wind and waves.

[bhyde]

It is a great shame that Weta Marine and TC Design / Tim Clissold the designer of the Weta parted company as one would have expected perhaps a big brother to the Weta to come on the scene at some stage offering more speed and thrills for those looking for a bigger boat from the same designer.
Today I came across that TC Design / Tim Clissold Weta big brother but it’s from another builder, it’s the Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (21 feet) by the Andaman Boatyard and it has just gone into production. Have just one picture. Looking forward to the sea trials!

That's basically a Multi 23... looks almost identical. That didn't go so well...

Is there a way to fold/demount the amas easily? That is the killer...

Looks to me like the akas have a hinge or pin about midway so the ama folds upward. Interesting.

Building a small tri (18'-20') without a practical folding system or manageable way of removing the amas is a non-starter for many people. Farrier/Corsair have been doing it for years with much larger boats. If you can't get the boat into a standard width slip or in a parking space on a trailer, you're limiting the number of possible owners by a fare amount. The M23 is a good example in my opinion.

Not to derail the thread completely, but IMHO the time is right for an OD 18' - 20' performance tri in the $30K US price range. Something that is easy to handle when daysailing, but can be raced as a serious OD class by two/three people. I've said it before that the Weta is the Laser of multihulls, now we need something to be the Melges 24 of multihulls. /end derail.

[AClass USA 230]

It is a great shame that Weta Marine and TC Design / Tim Clissold the designer of the Weta parted company as one would have expected perhaps a big brother to the Weta to come on the scene at some stage offering more speed and thrills for those looking for a bigger boat from the same designer.
Today I came across that TC Design / Tim Clissold Weta big brother but it’s from another builder, it’s the Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (21 feet) by the Andaman Boatyard and it has just gone into production. Have just one picture. Looking forward to the sea trials!

That's basically a Multi 23... looks almost identical. That didn't go so well...

Is there a way to fold/demount the amas easily? That is the killer...

I think what I would like to see is a Weta 16-17 doublehanded tri. The Weta 14 is too small for guy-girl to race and most times parent-kid to race. A slightly bigger version would be cool but I'm sure the economics and demand won't make it a possibility in the near future (hope I am wrong). My significant other and I would love to race some type of doublehanded class. We're too small for F-16 and F-18 for sure and we don't want to go back to a hike hard dinghy. A VX One sportboat could be on the horizon if the fleet takes off locally but I'd love to see the Weta concept expanded to a doublehanded version.

[richardstephens]

I think the 14' weta is the perfect size just as it is. For me, the ability to right the boat myself after a capsize is a huge advantage. I also have an F28, and if I capsize that boat, it is going to cost 10's of thousands of $, and put the boat out of action for the rest of the season. Sailing the Weta as close to the edge as I like (and sometimes a little over) is a hugely liberating feeling! If the boat were any bigger, handling it on land would require two people, and if it is not easily turned right way up, I think that makes the boat far less versatile, and not as much fun.

[tikipete]

+1

Trying to move a boat on the beach alone takes a lot of the fun out, it adds so much to be able to do that without exhausting myself.

[samc99us]

It is a great shame that Weta Marine and TC Design / Tim Clissold the designer of the Weta parted company as one would have expected perhaps a big brother to the Weta to come on the scene at some stage offering more speed and thrills for those looking for a bigger boat from the same designer.
Today I came across that TC Design / Tim Clissold Weta big brother but it’s from another builder, it’s the Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (21 feet) by the Andaman Boatyard and it has just gone into production. Have just one picture. Looking forward to the sea trials!

That's basically a Multi 23... looks almost identical. That didn't go so well...

Is there a way to fold/demount the amas easily? That is the killer...

I think what I would like to see is a Weta 16-17 doublehanded tri. The Weta 14 is too small for guy-girl to race and most times parent-kid to race. A slightly bigger version would be cool but I'm sure the economics and demand won't make it a possibility in the near future (hope I am wrong). My significant other and I would love to race some type of doublehanded class. We're too small for F-16 and F-18 for sure and we don't want to go back to a hike hard dinghy. A VX One sportboat could be on the horizon if the fleet takes off locally but I'd love to see the Weta concept expanded to a doublehanded version.

That's surprising, the F16 loves lightweight teams, and doesn't have any minimum crew weights! Of course it is a pretty physical boat so I see the 16-17' trimaran filling a niche for fast, raceable boat with low sheet loads and no trap wire but no serious hiking.

[Vaka]

^
the rudders look like the off-the-shelf dotans that weta used 2007/2008

nice lines for s small tri

very weta-like

doesn't look demountable...

presumably weta continue to look at a slightly bigger version

but keep being put off by the increased weight and cost equations looking like they would kill demand

the main benefits of the 14'weta would appear to be

- small enough to store almost anywhere

- light enough that solo setup and sailing is possible for most people of most ages

- not so expensive it's only a dream for the average sailor

- fast and complicated enough to keep techie sailors involved

- versatile enough to go day cruising with family or 1-design racing

monkey with any of those and half your market seems to disappear

Yeah I was wonder if the ama were demountable and it looks from the photo that they are either hinged or possibly pinned at about a third of the beam length from the main hull so you either fold them up or remove the pins and take the ama off.

[eric e]

It is a great shame that Weta Marine and TC Design / Tim Clissold the designer of the Weta parted company as one would have expected perhaps a big brother to the Weta to come on the scene at some stage offering more speed and thrills for those looking for a bigger boat from the same designer.
Today I came across that TC Design / Tim Clissold Weta big brother but it’s from another builder, it’s the Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (21 feet) by the Andaman Boatyard and it has just gone into production. Have just one picture. Looking forward to the sea trials!

a search turns up this for the TC627 - FOB Price: US $ 50,000 / Unit which means it's going to end up more expensive than a corsair sprint or F22...

Specifications new composite trimaran 6,27 mt (21 ft)

new composite trimaran 6,27 mt (21 ft) but built to be containerable (20 ft container - 3 pcs) - right now in construction in our yard and booking order for 20122 open - promotional price on order right now - enquiries welcome to website andaman boatyard dot com

http://www.alibaba.c...imaran_627.html

distribution networks for expensive new boats are always a headache so you never know

weta marine could already be secretly be developing it

or in talks to badge it as a weta21 if there is sufficient interest/demand

but at the moment

there don't appear to be many weta owners clamoring for a US$60,000? upgrade

..................................


yes, the floats do look to fold up, which would make speedy trailering and solo swing-down/ fold-up possible

presumably water-stays under the beams to lock them down?

if that's the carbon mast behind it, with diamonds, it presumably is 1 piece like a beachcat mast

so solo setup and ramp launch from a trailer with winch should be similar to a farrier

but probably no beach launch

[Doug Lord]

I'd sure like to see a two person "Weta" about 17' LOA designed to fly the main hull with ama foils...

[Multihauler]

I'd sure like to see a two person "Weta" about 17' LOA designed to fly the main hull with ama foils...

Here you go..............

2 Person.....check
17' LOA......check
ama foils....check
rudders on the amas....check

Rumor has it that the man hull is EXTREMELY light. And, If you look really close you'll see that the main-hull never actually touches the water.....even when tacking.



Cheers!!!

-MH

[Doug Lord]

Hey, thanks! It's just too narrow......and the amas are too big.

[Strategery]

It is a great shame that Weta Marine and TC Design / Tim Clissold the designer of the Weta parted company as one would have expected perhaps a big brother to the Weta to come on the scene at some stage offering more speed and thrills for those looking for a bigger boat from the same designer.
Today I came across that TC Design / Tim Clissold Weta big brother but it’s from another builder, it’s the Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (21 feet) by the Andaman Boatyard and it has just gone into production. Have just one picture. Looking forward to the sea trials!

That's basically a Multi 23... looks almost identical. That didn't go so well...

Is there a way to fold/demount the amas easily? That is the killer...

I think what I would like to see is a Weta 16-17 doublehanded tri. The Weta 14 is too small for guy-girl to race and most times parent-kid to race. A slightly bigger version would be cool but I'm sure the economics and demand won't make it a possibility in the near future (hope I am wrong). My significant other and I would love to race some type of doublehanded class. We're too small for F-16 and F-18 for sure and we don't want to go back to a hike hard dinghy. A VX One sportboat could be on the horizon if the fleet takes off locally but I'd love to see the Weta concept expanded to a doublehanded version.

I really like the VX One, but the foils are all aluminum...

I think as the WETA class builds, you'd be more than competitive in the 2 up racing fleet Bob. I know you guys had fun on the boat before, and that was with the old foils. They did an upgrade to everything... just like we did in the Sprints...Pretty cool. I'll be racing this half time with 2 up (my daughter). Hoping for some breeze!

Best,

C.

[Lost in Translation]

Think of it this way, your eyes would be around 14 feet from the leeward ama on the N17. That is just about as far as they would be on a tri.

PS - the weta looks great to me just as it is. Congrats to the class and builder on getting so many built and sailed so quickly.

[Strategery]

Of note...Chris K. is reportedly testing a deeper/larger screecher for WETA PHRF or Portsmouth racing/more efficient cruising. Stay tuned...

C.

[Vaka]

TC Design / Tim Clissold's Weta design is world class I have great expectations for the Siam Cat Tri TC627 but it's a bit early to judge yet. Might have to talk a wealthy friend of mine into buying a Siam TC627 as a toy to tow round behind his huge gin palace for his kids and me of course to play with! As for the price, most prices are open to negotiation at the end of the day.

[DaveK]

Your missing one very important feature of the weta.....

It's self recovering...... Upscale a Weta by 2 feet and a person may not be able to right it or sail off with an ama that size full of water.

[Vaka]

This info comes off the TC Design website for the TC666 A fun high performance sailing trimaran designed for sailing excitement and trailerablility. The floats feature wave piercing shapes, retaining high buoyancy but still able to be demounted. The main hull has berths for four, simple galley and head. Sailing can be done from the floats or cockpit. The pop-up rudders are in the floats, while the centerboard is central for reliable helm balance. The square top main is boomless for crew safety. Construction is foam composite. I assume the Siam Cat TC627 is a combination of a scaled up weta and a stripped out slightly smaller day sailing version of the 666

[unShirley]

Did you guys all miss the thread on the SeaRail 19? It looks a lot like a big Weta to me. It also meets a lot of the requests on the wish lists of above threads. Pay particular attention to the video in post #6.

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=141484

[Vaka]

Your missing one very important feature of the weta.....

It's self recovering...... Upscale a Weta by 2 feet and a person may not be able to right it or sail off with an ama that size full of water.

The self recovery feature was a bit of design genius from TC Design. The original sail training design had the ama sterns open which worked fine but once you start looking for racing performance fitting the inspection covers to maintain maximum buoyancy at all times makes a lot of sense. Certainly if you have a bigger wider boat that self righting feature is going to be more difficult to execute but could still be possible. It's a huge advantage to be able to self right the boat.

[eric e]

Did you guys all miss the thread on the SeaRail 19? It looks a lot like a big Weta to me. It also meets a lot of the requests on the wish lists of above threads. Pay particular attention to the video in post #6.

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=141484

yes, that video shows that the searail is of the more easy "trailer-sailer" trimaran, like a farrier or weta

than the mainly moored type tri with removable beams for occasional transport, like the m23

and still being under 20' the searail 19 shows how quickly the size scales up

searail seem to have done very well to keep the cost at only 2.5 times the cost of the weta USD27,990

about half that of a sprint or future f22, which seems about right

http://www.searail19.com/p/specs.html

[Vaka]

Did you guys all miss the thread on the SeaRail 19? It looks a lot like a big Weta to me. It also meets a lot of the requests on the wish lists of above threads. Pay particular attention to the video in post #6.

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=141484

yes, that video shows that the searail is of the more easy "trailer-sailer" trimaran, like a farrier or weta

than the mainly moored type tri with removable beams for occasional transport, like the m23

and still being under 20' the searail 19 shows how quickly the size scales up

searail seem to have done very well to keep the cost at only 2.5 times the cost of the weta USD27,990

about half that of a sprint or future f22, which seems about right

http://www.searail19.com/p/specs.html

Interesting to see Searail have gone for the TC Design / Tim Clissold loosed footed boomless main that features on the Weta and other TC Design like TC 627, TC666 and TC10

[nzsailorchick]

Hey Guys,

We have just got a cool new video from the Weta Classe France of the European Weta 2012 - For those that can't afford the Vendee!

[RedTuna]

Nicely done, Miranda. I noticed both single- and double-handed racers. How did that work out? Two different fleets?

[Vaka]

A couple more pictures of Weta designer Tim Clissold 21 foot sport boat Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (Giant Weta?) being built by Andaman Boatyard

Attached Files

•  627PDF.pdf   248.51K   62 downloads
•  TC627FLDspd.pdf   44.96K   56 downloads

[eric e]

have started a new thread for the TC6.27mtr

[Lezard]

Hello guys,

This is Laurent, from France. As the Weta distributor, we helped organize the 1st European Weta featured in the video.

> I noticed both single- and double-handed racers. How did that work out? Two different fleets?

We sailed as one fleet, with a handicap based on the difference between the official ratings we have in France for single/double Wetas. The rating is 1,169 for solo, and 1,305 for double.

The class association (www.wetaclassefrance.com) has made the choice of this slight compromise on OD racing to let people choose their preferred arrangement, and grow the fleet. I think that this works well. Of course, depending on conditions, the rating can be more or less accurate but this is seen as a small disadvantage compared to the benefits. At the European, we had a podium for the whole fleet, then 1st solo and 1st double.

Most important : everybody had a great time, with close racing at different levels of the fleet. (Way) ahead were Chris Kitchen and Franck-Yves Escoffier, with Chris establishing a firm lead over the 3 days

If you would like to come and visit us for any of our regatas, you are welcome. We can certainly arrange charter boats if needed.

[RedTuna]

> I noticed both single- and double-handed racers. How did that work out? Two different fleets?

We sailed as one fleet, with a handicap based on the difference between the official ratings we have in France for single/double Wetas. The rating is 1,169 for solo, and 1,305 for double.

Great information, Laurent. Thank you very much. And congratulations.

The ratings appear faster than I expected when I compare them to US D-PN. A six minute and 58 second delta between a solo and double Weta seems reasonable. Do you believe the Weta sails to its FFV rating against other French multihulls? If I read the FFV calculator correctly, a solo Weta is only 12 minutes 36 seconds slower per hour than an F18?

I saw the note in your FFV calculations that the screecher is calculated oversize; 13.85 square meters versus the published 8.0 or 73 percent larger. I'm guessing the measurement calculations are set up for a fuller spinnaker rather than a flatter screecher. I'm also wondering if that's also what leads to the US 78.5 D-PN rating.

Thanks again.

[Strategery]

Why not a fat top main and larger screecher to allow 2 ups to race OD?

[Vaka]

A couple more pictures of Weta designer Tim Clissold 21 foot sport boat Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (Giant Weta?) being built by Andaman Boatyard

I've been trying to get a bit of information on the TC627 from Weta designer Tim Clissold but he has been really hard to get hold of, busy working on secret stuff for Oracles AC72 and sailing his boat I think.

At last I have a reply to my question and the answer is yes the TC627 is designed to fly the main hull and sail on the leeward ama. Sounds to me like it could be a lot of fun to sail and a bit of a rocket ship.

[Strategery]

A couple more pictures of Weta designer Tim Clissold 21 foot sport boat Siam Cat Trimaran TC 627 (Giant Weta?) being built by Andaman Boatyard

I've been trying to get a bit of information on the TC627 from Weta designer Tim Clissold but he has been really hard to get hold of, busy working on secret stuff for Oracles AC72 and sailing his boat I think.

At last I have a reply to my question and the answer is yes the TC627 is designed to fly the main hull and sail on the leeward ama. Sounds to me like it could be a lot of fun to sail and a bit of a rocket ship.

Vaka, I think another thread has been started for the TC627.

[Lezard]

The ratings appear faster than I expected when I compare them to US D-PN. A six minute and 58 second delta between a solo and double Weta seems reasonable. Do you believe the Weta sails to its FFV rating against other French multihulls? If I read the FFV calculator correctly, a solo Weta is only 12 minutes 36 seconds slower per hour than an F18?

I saw the note in your FFV calculations that the screecher is calculated oversize; 13.85 square meters versus the published 8.0 or 73 percent larger. I'm guessing the measurement calculations are set up for a fuller spinnaker rather than a flatter screecher. I'm also wondering if that's also what leads to the US 78.5 D-PN rating.

Hello,

Your calculations are correct, and yes, the current ratings are tough for the Weta.

To cut a long story short, that is largely due to the shape of the standard gennaker, that does not meet the requirement for a spinnaker as defined by the SCHRS rules (too skinny). A compromise was found, originally in the UK, and the gennaker was 'oversized' rather than counted as a jib, which would have been even worse rating-wise. Of course, this still translates into a big penalty for our rating. Weta Marine NZ is now working on a bigger/fuller gennaker. If done OK, this gennaker might at the same time give more power to the Weta, and reduce its rating .

FFV originally started by applying the SCHRS values. From there, they will probably alter our ratings based on the results they collect from open multihull races where Wetas race with other designs. They have done this already to give more time to the double Wetas. One thing I especially appreciate is that in France we are now officially talking about _multihulls_ races, rather than the outdated 'catamarans' races

What we find on the water is that you have a fighting chance against cats if a/ this is a windy day and b/ downwind legs are not too long.
I'm not myself a top racer, so take my words with a bit of salt. What I know and enjoy is that the Weta fun factor is high in almost any conditions

[Vaka]

More pictures of Weta designer Tim Clissold's 21ft sport tri.

Attached Files

•  spinnakersiam2.jpg   34.29K   16 downloads
•  HR back.jpg   42.5K   18 downloads
•  HR below back.jpg   62.23K   21 downloads
•  HR below front.jpg   48.79K   15 downloads

[Strategery]

Pretty boat, wrong thread.

[RedTuna]

Yup, take it to the TC thread.

Methinks he has some unresolved issues.

http://www.boatdesig...nghy-30819.html

[madboutcats]

A lot of discussion by Weta owners has centered on improving it's performance with a more powerfull rig, I can see why this bigger Weta resolves that problem. I don't think you can put a bigger sail plan on the Weta, trap wires or stiffer mast without strengthening the connections for the AMA's, the deck where the mast mounts and the actual connections onto the top of the ama's, the ama's take on a fair bit of water which can only come through those beam joins. This would add a lot of weight and cost plus divide the class. A big limitation of the Weta for 1 up sailing in proper wind is the lack of flotation in the ama's, it's all very well to show a Weta blasting along in all those videos downwind but we all know why theres no videos of a solo beat in proper wind. Very funny telling someone they are posting in the wrong thread, would love to see a list of the "wrong" threads Weta's have popped up in

[bhyde]

... it's all very well to show a Weta blasting along in all those videos downwind but we all know why theres no videos of a solo beat in proper wind. ...

plenty of pix and video of the Weta going uphill in a blow. Here's Dav'o in SF typical conditions:

 265662.jpeg   29.45K   12 downloads

The boat is quite relaxed in 20Kts+ of breeze. Sailed mine for four years solo in SF with no issues.

[richardstephens]

> A big limitation of the Weta for 1 up sailing in proper wind is the lack of flotation in the ama

Have you ever sailed a Weta? It feels really good to sail upwind!

Higher buoyancy amas would mean flying the main hull, which means you are sailing on a knife edge, like any high performance cat. For sure, you can go faster if you dispose of the main hull, and get the same righting moment using a trapeze. But that is not what the Weta is about.

The way the ama submerse gives you plenty of warning when you are getting close to the edge. That is one of the Weta's great strengths. It is "High Performance Sailing For Everyone". The boat is fast, by most people's standards, but if you make a mistake, it does not dump you in the water, or catapult you around the forestay. It is accessible, affordable, and fun.

In Ithaca NY we have a Weta one design fleet with more girls than boys. The age range of our sailors is 25 to 65. All of us have righted the boat from a capsize, although that is a rare occurrence. The wind here is, for most fleets, either not enough (less than 10knts) or too much (more than 20). The Wetas go out and have a lot of fun, no matter whether it is light or heavy wind. Meanwhile there are Lasers that have frogs living in the puddles in their covers, and beachcats that have weeds growing up through their tramps. The Weta succeeds because it is easy to own, and easy and fun to sail under a wide range of wind conditions.

[unShirley]

A big limitation of the Weta for 1 up sailing in proper wind is the lack of flotation in the ama's, it's all very well to show a Weta blasting along in all those videos downwind but we all know why theres no videos of a solo beat in proper wind.

Go back and watch the video in post #272. There are lots of shots of wetas sailing upwind, solo, in 18 kts, very easily. Is 18 kts not a "proper wind?" The small amas are not a limitation. All boats have their own peculiar techniques of boat handling for optimal sailing. If one can't figure out what it is for a weta, laser, finn, f-18, star, hobie cat, etc. it isn't the boat that is limited, but the skipper.

[madboutcats]

I've logged over 100 hours on the Weta, 18 knots is getting to proper wind, the Weta is slow when that ama goes under water, anybody can pinch to keep the ama up, again slow, it is a limitation of the boat and a trap wire with stiffer rig would fix that, which is what my post says. You guys know of all the talk about beefing up the sail plan in other threads, my point is whats the point, leave the current boat as it is with it's underpowered floppy rig it already has a niche market for and develop a performance Weta like the boat in post 333

[Multihauler]

I've logged over 100 hours on the Weta, 18 knots is getting to proper wind, the Weta is slow when that ama goes under water, anybody can pinch to keep the ama up, again slow, it is a limitation of the boat and a trap wire with stiffer rig would fix that, which is what my post says. You guys know of all the talk about beefing up the sail plan in other threads, my point is whats the point, leave the current boat as it is with it's underpowered floppy rig it already has a niche market for and develop a performance Weta like the boat in post 333

Weta.....~$12k
Boat is post 333.....~$50k

That's a BIG difference in $$$ per

btw, here is a video of Davo, "doooin his thang" in 18-20 aboard one of those horribly under powered, small ama'ed, floppy rigged little Wetas...



Sure looks like to me.

Full Disclosure: I own one (5 years now)

-MH

[EarthBM]

So looking at the picture of that other trimaran, I see that it has sporty wave piercing bows and a big ass asymmetric. What kind of wind angles is that sail designed for? I know it has to be fast because it's red, very sporty. Some critical sporty elements are missing though: you forgot curvy foils and rudders and foils have to be orange, duh... Also critical is a letter R or S in the name for "race" or "sport". Otherwise it's just another solution in search of a problem. Now, pass me the port, sport.

[madboutcats]

The Weta platform is brilliant for what it is but you all know that the rig is underpowered and the mast is light which is why it's boring as batshit in light wind but very safe in proper wind
Here's some specs
Weta sail area total 19.3 square metres,
1960's designed 420 dinghy like my kids sailed when they were 8 years old, total sail area 23.25 metres square
Weta has light mast with floppy platform, 420 has stiff aluminium mast
=underpowered

[eric e]

generally considered over-powered hobie 16 - 18.8m2

[madboutcats]

Not considered overpowered by the 130,000 Hobie 16 owners, they're not for everone if your looking for a safer less powerfull ride you could buy a Weta
Sad were comparing to a 50 year old design again but since you mentioned it, when your sailing up wind on a Weta you are flying 11.5 square metres of sail area total while the Hobie 16 flys 20 square metres, once you round the bottom mark you can unfurl your spinnaker on the Weta and fly 19.5 square metres, when the Hobie 16 unfurls it's factory spin it gives it another 17.5 square metres giving it 37.5 square metres with a rig that handles 2 on the wire.

[eric e]

and i must add

kudos to your kids for sailing a 420 with spin when they were 8 years old

[tikipete]

After a day sailing my F16 I have significant lower back pain. Not so on the Weta. I've no idea why.

It's also very nice to just relax, even while racing, and enjoy the simple pleasure of sailing. You can't do that on the F16, every moment requires maximum concentration.

[RedTuna]

My Weta is underpowered and boring in light air? Maybe under three knots, but what boat isn't? Otherwise, it's great fun, interesting and challenging to race.

[Vaka]

One more photo of Weta designer Tim Clissolds latest creation the 21ft TC627.

Attached Files

•  627os.JPG   98.35K   26 downloads

[Strategery]

Vaka...what's the deal. You upset with Weta? Looks like it based on your posts on the boat designer network...

Do tell... This passive aggressive stuff doesn't work on SA. We like the basic AGGRESSIVE stuff...

Everyone here has thick skin. What exactly happened to make you this outraged? 29 posts, with over 20 dedicated to Weta bashing... Please spill it!

[RedTuna]

I just don't get it, either. Mr Clissold should be thrilled he's mentioned as one of the designers of a wildly successful boat. And so should his friends.

I'm curious who the rest of the Weta Design Team are. I remember reading early on in my research of the boat that lots of people had input. Was it a Bob Perry article?

Anyway, back on topic. Does anybody know a Mr Graeme Swan of Auckland? Maybe he can shed some light on Vaka's motivation. I'm guessing they might both run/sail in the same circle of friends. Check Mr Graeme Swan's comment below and note the date.

http://www.xssailing...hpole-recovery/

Mr Graeme Swan's Weta wiki edits, also in late September, are below. Just click on the time and date and his name pops up.

http://en.wikipedia....&action=history

Oh, hey. Scroll down a bit on the link below. The TC627 rendering looks a little familiar, amirite?

https://www.facebook.com/sailingworld

Interesting series of coincidences, I must say. Not that I'm implying anything.

[Vaka]

Ah Strategy, the penny has dropped! If you walked into the New Zealand Multihull Yacht Club on club night any time after 2005 and announced that the Kitchens of Weta Marine had designed the Weta Trimaran everyone would have fallen on the floor pissing themselves with laughter.
Having recently stumbled across a magazine article that proclaimed that Roger and Chris Kitchens designed the Weta I did a bit of a survey via google and came across 30 plus articles making the same claims world wide. So I checked the Weta websites, apparently the Kitchens rolled up their sleeves disappeared into their garage and came out with a world class 4.4 trimaran design. I checked with Sailing World Magazine, it would appear Weta Marine claimed the design as their own in their application for the Annapolis BOTY award which Clissolds design won. Thought the Weta community and others might like to know who actually designed the Weta and is there any more to come. Consider yourself educated. We New Zealanders don’t like bull shit that’s why politicians and real estate salesmen are rated as the least trusted people in NZ.
Having said that if you attended club night at the NZMYC today and said what a great job Weta Marine had done to establish the Weta as a class, manufacturing and promoting it world wide with sales of around 900 to date you would get a round of applause and I would join in.
Aggression is such a blunt tool and often mis-used destroying the good with the bad and often ignores the facts.

[RedTuna]

Thought the Weta community and others might like to know who actually designed the Weta and is there any more to come. Consider yourself educated.

You haven't brought anything new to the conversation. Users "Steve" and "luff tension" informed us some 54 and 30 months ago, respectively. Consider yourself late to the party.

Way to crap in the thread, though. You fit the stereotype.

Good luck on your crusade.

http://crew.org.nz/f...5&view=previous

[Strategery]

If Clissolds had the design previously done and on the shelf, dusted it off and gave it to the Kitchens while witholding IP rights for himself, then I'll listen to your rant.

If, however, they paid him to design the boat, paid him for his counsel, and bought the IP rights to the boat, then a transaction was completed. End of story. If they own the rights, then its their design. Period. How they choose to present the design is up to them. It sounds to me like they acknowledged him as the designer though.


"We New Zealanders don’t like bull shit"

We Yanks don't either. I had to pry your intentions out of you instead of you coming on and stating your case from the start...that my friend is "Bull Shit".

[bhyde]

RedTuna has it right Vaka. This has been discussed ad nauseum many month ago. No one doubts who the designer is, it's Clissolds. The question has always been who owns the rights to the design and whether or not the Kitchens and Clissolds had a proper business arrangment. If you ask the Kitchens and Clissolds you will get two different stories. It's a dead topic.

[Vaka]

I think my intentions were perfectly obvious and stated clearly - “Clissold designed the Weta”. Weta Marine do own the copy right to the Weta design, although that was never the intention. Having reviewed the NZ Copy Right Act I did point out to Weta Marine that there are enforceable rights for the author of a design to be recognised under the act where others own the copy right. In October 2012 Weta Marine included TC Design/ Clissold as the author of the design on their website.

Getting back to the thread the Weta is a great boat congratulation everyone who contributed to making this success story.

http://tvnz.co.nz/bu...e-video-4467331

I'm off sailing for three months see ya!

[RedTuna]

Have fun, Graeme.

[RedTuna]

Fishingmickey never comes to this forum, does he?



The rod holder's a good idea.

[eric e]

nice!

[DaveK]

Fishingmickey never comes to this forum, does he?



The rod holder's a good idea.

No, he doesn't..... I mounted some pvc pipes to the outer post and trolled one day. Not even a nibble... on Lake Travis.

[Strategery]

Hot off the press, FWYC Fleet Captain John Farris has confirmed FWYC

will be pleased to host the opening WetaFest 2013 in late March.

Designed to allow "out of towners" to do Charlotte Harbor regatta, go to

work for a month (to replenish bank accounts) and then come to race on the

beautiful Emerald Coast, WetaFest is destined to be a staple event on

the Weta calendar in the US.

Dates

* Registration Thursday March 21

* Windward Leewards Friday March 22 - Dinner TBA

* Windward Leewards Saturday March 23

* Distance race Sunday March 24. Awards presentation

This will be an exciting format at the most incredible time of year at

the club. 2 days of hard core tactical Windward Leeward racing, wrapped

up with a strategic distance race requiring true strategy to win.

For those of you in the frozen North...Look out your window...better

yet, open it and feel the cold air rushing over your body. Quickly

now...close it, close your eyes... imagine warm sun...white sandy

beaches...tropical breeze...warm water...rum drinks with funny names...

dolphins playing at the front of your boat as you lee bow Richard coming

into the final mark to take the win... Ahhh...this truly is sailing

paradise...

Logistics:

As the #2 drive to destination in the state of Florida, there are LOTS

of options on where to stay.

Beach House:

VRBO.com gets you a house on the beach, or a condo in the

thick of things for late night revelry. Look at Fort Walton Beach as the

area.

Hotels:

The most interesting option would be right on Leeside beach -

Destin West resort

http://www.destinwest.com.

You can either keep your

boat at the club, or at your hotel, as you sail there after each day's

racing...

With the grand opening of the new Fudpuckers bar/restaurant next door, I

can see us making a beverage stop on the way to the Yacht Club at the

end of each day's racing.

Campers:

http://www.destinwestrvresort.com

is the new RV resort at

Leeside Park. Another great option (part of Destin West) and you can

pull your boat up to your RV...

The club will also have room for campers, but no hook-ups.

There are only a few places like this in the US, where you can bring

your family down, let them hang on the beach while you race, and then

re-engage with them at the end of the day. There may also be overlap

with Spring break for those of you who are inclined to stay the whole

week.

I'll post more logistics as things get firmed up, but here's a starting

point for you all... Please let me know if you are thinking about

coming, so I can plan logistics better.

This will be old school Southern hospitality for those attending, at a club that loves multis, and has hosted some of the biggest national events. There will be

some great racing. I can't wait to see you all as part of the second key

event in the Gulf series...

[Fishingmickey]

Fishingmickey never comes to this forum, does he?



The rod holder's a good idea.

No, he doesn't..... I mounted some pvc pipes to the outer post and trolled one day. Not even a nibble... on Lake Travis.

I believe you both stand corrected! Nice fish too. DK let me know when you'd like to fish. I'll show ya some of my techniques for putting fish in the boat .
FM

[nzsailorchick]

Hi Guys,

I have just posted a video of the New Zealand Weta Summer Rally on youtube. The rally was three days of cruising with some sprint racing and coaching from Chris. We sailed from a camping ground on the Coromandel, which is a popular holiday destination about two hours from Auckland. It was a very chilled out format with no formal racing, it was a bit of an experiment but turned out pretty well! Check out the report from our NZ Weta Association chairman here for the full run down http://www.wetamarin...rally-2012.html

What do you guys think of the format? Do you think it would work to do one of these in the States? I am now itching to do some proper racing, but I am a competitive hard out!

[RParentsail]

You should highly consider an F16 or F18 above a Weta in my opinion.

[eric e]

^

imho

if you only want to go beachcat racing with crew, get an f18

if you only want to go beachcat racing, with or without crew, flying on the trapeze and living on the edge, get an f16

if you to want to race with other, old guys, not need to use a trapeze, want to put up the mast by yourself, appreciate the small footprint when packed, want a safer boat in higher winds and take out non-sailors and kids, get a weta

[RParentsail]

^or for that last one, get an A Cat.

[Crump's Brother]

You should highly consider an F16 or F18 above a Weta in my opinion.

Where do you mount the rod holders?

KB

[DaveK]

You should highly consider an F16 or F18 above a Weta in my opinion.

Wow... are you gonna tell me what kind of car todrive next? Totally ambiguous.

[bhyde]

^or for that last one, get an A Cat.

High winds, novice sailors, or just knockin' about with a fishing pole...on an A-Cat? Surely you're joking. The F-18, A-Cat and Weta couldn't be more different boats. All great boats, but if you were to make a car analogy the Weta would be a Miata, the F-18 would be a Corvette, and the A-Cat would be a 911. All fun, but way, way different in every respect.

[catsailordude]

^or for that last one, get an A Cat.

High winds, novice sailors, or just knockin' about with a fishing pole...on an A-Cat? Surely you're joking. The F-18, A-Cat and Weta couldn't be more different boats. All great boats, but if you were to make a car analogy the Weta would be a Miata, the F-18 would be a Corvette, and the A-Cat would be a 911. All fun, but way, way different in every respect.

F-18 = 911 Carrera 4S
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S
Weta = Honda Element (okay, maybe a Honda Civic Si)

Others:
F16 = Porche Caymen
Carbon 20 = Porche 911 Turbo S
Hobie 16 = 1971 Camero
Tornado Classic = 1984 Corvette
Tornado Sport = 1988 Corvette ZR1
Dart 18 = 1978 Mazda RX-7 or 1973 Datson 240Z

[bhyde]

F-18 = 911 Carrera 4S
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S
Weta = Honda Element (okay, maybe a Honda Civic Si)

hmm...

how 'bout:

F-18 = BMW M3
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S (perfect, it's definitely not an Exige)
Weta = Cooper (non S model)

[catsailordude]

F-18 = 911 Carrera 4S
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S
Weta = Honda Element (okay, maybe a Honda Civic Si)

hmm...

how 'bout:

F-18 = BMW M3
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S (perfect, it's definitely not an Exige)
Weta = Cooper (non S model)

Cooper (non S model) works. Small and sporty, not a lot of horsepower, can carry 4 people but is better with one or 2. And it's cute.

[bhyde]

F-18 = 911 Carrera 4S
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S
Weta = Honda Element (okay, maybe a Honda Civic Si)

hmm...

how 'bout:

F-18 = BMW M3
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S (perfect, it's definitely not an Exige)
Weta = Cooper (non S model)

Cooper (non S model) works. Small and sporty, not a lot of horsepower, can carry 4 people but is better with one or 2. And it's cute.

Remember we also need to leave some room for the monos too. Pinto, K-car, Yugo, Gremlin....

[Strategery]

F-18 = 911 Carrera 4S
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S
Weta = Honda Element (okay, maybe a Honda Civic Si)

hmm...

how 'bout:

F-18 = BMW M3
A-Cat = Lotus Elise S (perfect, it's definitely not an Exige)
Weta = Cooper (non S model)

Cooper (non S model) works. Small and sporty, not a lot of horsepower, can carry 4 people but is better with one or 2. And it's cute.

Horsepower opinions vary... If you can flip it....

Why don't we focus on something more important than car analogies...

That is, what's the fastest color Weta? I'm thinking green...as in GO! Course, I just bought a green one.... ;-)

[unShirley]

Isn't there a traditional seamans' superstition that it is bad luck to paint your boat green?

Of, course, you could neutralize that by painting your daggerboard orange. (Not the bows, tho, bhyde. BTW: why did you do that, so the RYC dock could see you coming at it and try to get out of the way?)

[Occams Razor]

of course the red that fades into orange over time, is the fastest Weta hull color. Everyone knows that.

[bhyde]

Isn't there a traditional seamans' superstition that it is bad luck to paint your boat green?

Of, course, you could neutralize that by painting your daggerboard orange. (Not the bows, tho, bhyde. BTW: why did you do that, so the RYC dock could see you coming at it and try to get out of the way?)

That wasn't just any orange, it was 'Safety Orange.' After that the docks never got in my way again. I also painted the rudder and daggerboard and you better believe the boat was significantly faster.

[Strategery]

Red attracts sharks... To paraphrase Gordon Gecko: "Green is good..."

That said...sailors are a superstitious lot...I thought it was banana yellow that was bad luck...

[Crump's Brother]

Bump that up for the "Front Page" video...

[nzsailorchick]

Thought you guys might like this pic - Santa on a Weta at the crew.org.nz rum race last night!

[unShirley]

Is that the new, bigger Gennaker? The foot looks to be lower than stock.

Or....am I hallucinating, again?

[nzsailorchick]

Yeah we are playing around with a few designs, this one seemed to be good!

[RedTuna]

And?

C'mon, Miranda. Inquiring minds want to know.

[nzsailorchick]

Haha ok you asked for it...

Firstly the brief was not to replace the existing screecher, as we have figured out that it is the best general solution for the boat in terms of it can be furled by nearly anybody in any conditions and is easy to trim. So the existing screecher will be still be sold standard and used for one design racing. To me it is the most fun for one design racing because it's tactical and even if you are miles behind or in front it can all change with a good or bad downwind.

The idea was to produce a sail for those who do mixed racing and want something with a lot more dead downwind performance in lighter breezes than the current sail. For dead downwind performance, you need a lot more shape in the sail. This is not good for furling, as the best shape for furling is a flat sail with a straight luff.

We are still testing different cuts to learn more about the performance and limitations, we are playing around with having a sail with a lot more projection than the current screecher, that you furl (but won't furl well enough to go upwind in any kind of breeze) and then drop into the cockpit. We are also playing with a sail that can be furled in most conditions, by an experienced person, but it's much harder to get a good furl with it. This sail has less projection so it possibly has less downwind performance.

We've tried both styles vs the current screecher in a range of conditions and the person with the big sail doesn't always beat the person with the screecher. I think this is the nature of gennaker sailing, we always sail in puffy and shifty conditions so if someone picks the shifts well they might beat a person with the big sail to the bottom mark. It works in the same way that someone in a Laser Radial might beat a Laser Standard to the top mark.

So the testing continues...

[RedTuna]

Thanks.

[eric e]

Thought you guys might like this pic - Santa on a Weta at the crew.org.nz rum race last night!

more ? then

that sail is marked as #1

but the rudder doesn't look to be that old

and the mainsail doesn't look quite right with black tape trim on a shiny white dacron sail...

[eric e]

 Santa Flyby.JPG   439.52K   9 downloads

shiny shiny

love the curve on that genny luff

[RedTuna]

Damn sexy. How many pulls to get it up?

Oh, and from the mythical FP

[richardstephens]

... For dead downwind performance, you need a lot more shape in the sail. This is not good for furling, as the best shape for furling is a flat sail with a straight luff. We are still testing different cuts to learn more about the performance and limitations, we are playing around with having a sail with a lot more projection than the current screecher, that you furl (but won't furl well enough to go upwind in any kind of breeze) and then drop into the cockpit. We are also playing with a sail that can be furled in most conditions, by an experienced person, but it's much harder to get a good furl with it. This sail has less projection so it possibly has less downwind performance....

If you are going to change the spinnaker, I would go for a skiff-style retrieval system, with a tubular bag on the foredeck. You can have the best flying shape, without compromising the sail for the sake of furling, and without any windage on the upwind leg.

[RedTuna]

I really like the white sails' look. Oh, to go deeper down wind...

The jib window should be a little larger though.



But I think Richard's on to something.

[DaveK]

If I'd ever get Bartlett to finish our dacron sails!!!!

[Strategery]

... For dead downwind performance, you need a lot more shape in the sail. This is not good for furling, as the best shape for furling is a flat sail with a straight luff. We are still testing different cuts to learn more about the performance and limitations, we are playing around with having a sail with a lot more projection than the current screecher, that you furl (but won't furl well enough to go upwind in any kind of breeze) and then drop into the cockpit. We are also playing with a sail that can be furled in most conditions, by an experienced person, but it's much harder to get a good furl with it. This sail has less projection so it possibly has less downwind performance....

If you are going to change the spinnaker, I would go for a skiff-style retrieval system, with a tubular bag on the foredeck. You can have the best flying shape, without compromising the sail for the sake of furling, and without any windage on the upwind leg.

AMEN TO THAT!

Furling is fun, but snuffing is the way to go. Still - good looking sail. Would really improve the boats downwind performance. What kind of speeds are you seeing with it?

[mattquist]

I may be ill .

There, I fixed it for you

Oh. Now it's all much clearer. For a minute there I was lost, and didn't understand what he was talking about.

[eric e]

If you are going to change the spinnaker, I would go for a skiff-style retrieval system, with a tubular bag on the foredeck. You can have the best flying shape, without compromising the sail for the sake of furling, and without any windage on the upwind leg.

keep in mind that deck of a weta isn't as protected at the tramp of a cat

it is not at all uncommon to have large amounts of water going over the deck

personally i'd like to see a deep cut assym on a top down furler, on a slightly long prod, so the current screacher could stay

would be fun testing anyway