[tager]

Does this seem like a good deal? It comes with a 8 hp 2001 Honda outboard with alternator. I am going to look at the boat on Thursday, will bring wetsuit and goggles to assess blisters/keel rust situation. It has an external cast iron keel. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs238.snc3/22555_859852546548_10737374_47908702_803157_n.jpg

[PNW Matt B]

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />tager, on Jan 18 2010, 10:38 PM, said:

Does this seem like a good deal? It comes with a 8 hp 2001 Honda outboard with alternator. I am going to look at the boat on Thursday, will bring wetsuit and goggles to assess blisters/keel rust situation. It has an external cast iron keel.

You need a lot more information before anyone can answer that.

But just from the photo, she looks better cared for than many used boats out there. Look under things to get an idea of whether it's good routine maintenance or a good polish job by the broker.

[hobot]

There's one on the hard in Everett that's been for sale along time now (one up on Whidbey too, check craigslist).

Might be able to find a good deal if you have cash in hand.

[Schnick]

These boats are surprisingly quick. I'd own one, it would make a great little singlehanding boat.

[Jose Carumba]

Tager,

The Haida 26 is a pretty good little boat. Several(?) have crossed the Pacific (there's one for sale in Hawaii I think). There was a flush deck version and one with a raised cabin (like the one you are interested in). They was designed by Ray Richards and built in B.C. Just make sure the cast iron keel is sealed well to prevent rust (there are several threads on this in SA).

I wouldn't mind owning one of the flush deck versions myself.

[Bob Perry]

The original flush deck Haida 26 is one of my all time favorite boats. A friend owned one and I took it cruising once. The boat just had no bad habits and was quick in it's day. Ray Richards had a great eye and his carbin trunk looked good. The one in the pic is not a Ray Richards cabin trunk and it looks,,,,less than good. But I'm sure its practical.

[sailman]

Here is a flush deck with a cabin added on for sale, and one without.

[Bob Perry]

Holy cow!
I'm certain that blue hull is my friend's old boat, POSH.
In the middle of a summer where I was being attacked by alergies I spent a sneeze free cruise on that boat.
That is a great boat. Great memories.
Like Uffa Fox said, if you want to stand up, go on deck.

[Schnick]

The only reason not to like these boats would be if a 'glass Thunderbird could be had for the same price - the TBird has a lot more horsepower and 'tweakability'. As a cruiser it might be closer to a 50/50 proposition.

[Bob Perry]

Ray Richards was a clever designer and he went thru a long phase where he put those topsides chines on pretty much everyboat he drew. Some of them were pigs ( SQUAIP, RUNNING DOG, BAD MOON RISING) but they were all very interesting looking and I liked them. I really liked them when I beat them. The T Bird will sail circles around the Haida but I think the Haida has an appeal of it's own.
I have a soft spot for Ray. I went to visit him when I was in high school. His office was in his house. He wore a suit to work. He was not very friendly to me. But I was a punk kid.

The Haida I sailed had the most clever dining table design I have ever seen on a small boat. I'll be it was Ray's idea.

[tager]

I live aboard, so the cabin looks a lot prettier to me than to most. Also, I am not really interested in going fast, I know that a T-bird will beat her, but that is not my biggest care. I just enjoy cruising and living aboard, so this boat is a good design for that. I am going to look at her on Thursday. I will make sure to look her over quite closely before making an offer.

I am bringing a wetsuit, an underwater flashlight, and a mask in order to dive on the keel and check for rust. She was hauled out 3 years ago for bottom paint. I will also check for blisters. That should be fun in the middle of winter in Puget Sound. Does anybody have tips on things to look out for on this particular boat?

[PNW Matt B]

tager, on Jan 20 2010, 12:34 AM, said:

I live aboard, so the cabin looks a lot prettier to me than to most. Also, I am not really interested in going fast, I know that a T-bird will beat her, but that is not my biggest care. I just enjoy cruising and living aboard, so this boat is a good design for that. I am going to look at her on Thursday. I will make sure to look her over quite closely before making an offer.

I am bringing a wetsuit, an underwater flashlight, and a mask in order to dive on the keel and check for rust. She was hauled out 3 years ago for bottom paint. I will also check for blisters. That should be fun in the middle of winter in Puget Sound. Does anybody have tips on things to look out for on this particular boat?

Three years ago for bottom paint? Even for Puget Sound, that's a little long. I usually do every two and sometimes feel that wasn't close enough. Check the zincs then - too many owners only check and change them when she's hauled out.

[Bob Perry]

It's a Haida 26, part of PNW yachting lore, I say go for it.

[Jose Carumba]

Tager,

It sounds like you have it covered underwater along with Matt’s suggestion of checking the zincs.

Some other things to check:

• Keel bolts. Check for rust, discoloration or looseness.
• Rudder gudgeons and pintles and transom around them.
• Hull to deck joint. Check for any signs of weeping, inside and out.
• Chainplates, forestay and backstay tangs. Check inside and out for signs of leakage, rust stains or streaks, rusty or loose fasteners, punky hull or bulkhead where attached.
• Check standing rigging for discoloration (rust), meathooks (broken strands), bent turnbuckles, bent tangs, etc.
• I believe this is a deck stepped mast so check where the mast is stepped on the deck for any severe cracking. Check under the deck where the compression post or deck beam is for rot or sagging. Check where the compression post lands on the hull for signs of rot if it’s wood.
• Check bhds and stringers for rot.
• Check for leaks and/or soft spots around any deck fittings, windows or equipment.
• Cored deck or hull areas. Tap with a mallet to find any loose or rotten core. This may require a pro.

I’m sure I forgot something, if anyone has anything to add, chime in.

It’s an old boat and will probably need some attention in certain areas. I would use any faults you find in your inspection to bargain down, then buy the boat and fix it up on your own time. As Bob said it’s a NW classic and a good all around boat.

[tager]

Where would there be zincs on this boat? Bolted to the keel externally? I don't think that the thru hulls are bonded or zinced, but are probably bronze. Should there be a zinc on the keel of this boat?

I have pretty much drawn the line at a terribly rusty keel. If the keel spits rust at the back side of my flashlight while I am down there, then I know that an expensive bottom job is in order, and it definitely means rusty bolts, too. Does anyone know about the keel bolts in a Haida 26? I am assuming that they were stainless steel tapped into the cast iron keel and held in with 2 nuts and a washer. I will know when I look, I guess.

I am going to school, and living aboard. I have a few absolute bailout places to live if the boat needs to go in the yard, but I would rather not deal with the inconvenience of that for at least 2 more years, hence the fear of rusty keel and bolts. I will keep her in the fresh, so all the growth should fall off pretty quick. Before I take her over the wild blue yonder I understand that she would need:

New keel bolts + keel bedding with 5200
Keel treatment and Fresh coat of antifoul
Heavy and extra mooring gear
Beefy bow cleat
New lines and sails
Storm sails
New standing rigging, preferably dynex dux with twin backstays
Backup rudder
Secured and dogged hatches and companionways

and a few other things.

I am actually pretty confident in the boats ability to motor in high seas. She has a long shaft motor located about 2.5' inboard from the transom in a well.


To sum it all up: Where are the zincs on this boat, and does anybody know what kind of keelbolt arrangement they have?

[Ishmael]

tager, on Jan 20 2010, 05:42 PM, said:

Where would there be zincs on this boat? Bolted to the keel externally? I don't think that the thru hulls are bonded or zinced, but are probably bronze. Should there be a zinc on the keel of this boat?

I have pretty much drawn the line at a terribly rusty keel. If the keel spits rust at the back side of my flashlight while I am down there, then I know that an expensive bottom job is in order, and it definitely means rusty bolts, too. Does anyone know about the keel bolts in a Haida 26? I am assuming that they were stainless steel tapped into the cast iron keel and held in with 2 nuts and a washer. I will know when I look, I guess.

I am going to school, and living aboard. I have a few absolute bailout places to live if the boat needs to go in the yard, but I would rather not deal with the inconvenience of that for at least 2 more years, hence the fear of rusty keel and bolts. I will keep her in the fresh, so all the growth should fall off pretty quick. Before I take her over the wild blue yonder I understand that she would need:

New keel bolts + keel bedding with 5200
Keel treatment and Fresh coat of antifoul
Heavy and extra mooring gear
Beefy bow cleat
New lines and sails
Storm sails
New standing rigging, preferably dynex dux with twin backstays
Backup rudder
Secured and dogged hatches and companionways

and a few other things.

I am actually pretty confident in the boats ability to motor in high seas. She has a long shaft motor located about 2.5' inboard from the transom in a well.


To sum it all up: Where are the zincs on this boat, and does anybody know what kind of keelbolt arrangement they have?

An iron keel should have a zinc, a nice big one.
As I recall, the keel on the Haida is an external flange (like a T) with bolts going up into the hull each side. I would avoid bedding with 5200, it's just too permanent. If you get a leak, it's a major job to remove the damn thing. 4200 would be a better bet.

I talked to a woman up in Sidney, a few years ago while we were standing around (waiting for our boats to launch) looking at a Haida, and she had done Mexico singlehanded in her old Haida 26 and thought it was the best boat she ever owned. Good luck!

[tager]

I looked at the boat. I dove into the cold cold Puget Sound, so I didn't get to look around for the zinc, but the keel hull joint is tight, and the keel appeared to be totally rust free. The keel was sandblasted and cold tar epoxied 3 years ago, along with bottom paint. The bottom paint is going strong, Puget Sound is cold. There were a few barnacles and some mussels, and one anenome, but it is pretty clean overall. The keel bolts appear to be original, but they are stainless, and appear to be solid by looking at the nuts. I am not sure if the bolts are through-bolted to a flange or threaded in, but either way, they should get the boat from Anacortes to Seattle.

The floor inside is rotten because the boat doesn't have a proper bilge like the islander. However, the stringers are not structural, they only keep the floorboards off of the keelbolts. With a dremel, I should be able to remove the tabbing and plywood with extreme care not to sink the boat. Then I will put in a new marine ply floor with trex-decking stringers, then cork.

The bilge was wet, but I tasted it and it was fresh water... I hope I don't get some disease. The ports leak, and one mounting bolt for a T-track leaks. This explains the water in the bilge.

There are a few small soft spots in the deck. The deck is a plywood deck with a lot of camber, it is over frames, and has a layer of dynex? glass on top. What is the best way to fix a small soft spots? I was thinking of cutting out from underneath with a router and a cutoff wheel, then scabbing in a new peice of marine ply with epoxy, and glassing that in with epoxy and mat. Should I use mat or roving? Then I would fix the leak that caused the soft spot in the first place.

The cockpit lockers are hinged, but the hinges were screwed into marine ply that is long gone. I am planning on scraping out all of the rotten wood, treating the hole with epoxy, putting in a new piece of trex decking or marine ply epoxied in place. Does epoxy work well on trex? I think it is HDPE like milk bottles. If not should I try starboard? I may just use marine ply and epoxy for cost.

The wood at the head of the outboard rudder is cracking. I am thinking I will just build a new one. My dad has some large seasoned beams of Lopez Island spruce that should be up to the task. Either that or laminated marine ply. The rudder appears sound everywhere except where the tiller attaches, which, stupidly, is the most slender part.

The interior of the boat is nice, some lemon oil and elbow grease will have her spiffy.

THE ELECTRICS WORK! HOORAY!
The port side nav light needs a bulb. That's it. Nice stereo too. Gonna need a sub.

The rig is old, but sound and not rusty. Should get me home.

The turnbuckle for the port bow upper lifeline is bent, woe is me.

I think the anchor roller would work fine with a stainless backing plate underneath.

Backing plates are in order all around, the stanchions are not very solid, but it is a design flaw. With big backing plates they should be more solid.

The trim all needs to be stripped and re varnished. That should be a fair bit of work, but I want her to look good.

Somebody removed the head, thankfully. There is only one through hull that handles sink and cockpit drains, it is a proper bronze through hull and all plumbing is done well. There is a bilge pump and manual pump both of which drain into the cockpit.

The motor is a Honda 8hp 2001 High thrust . Starts on first pull. F-N-R. Tiller model with alternator, in a well. Easy to access, no leaning over the stern.

Mainsail is bagged out but looks okay. Running rigging is old buy works. Winches need lube but work.

I have decided she is a good deal. As is she can go sailing safely in the sound.

She requires about $2000 and 200 hours of work to get her up to snuff. Another $3000 and 200 hours before I would sail her to Hawaii..


I think I am going to buy her. Taking her down next weekend.

[PNW Matt B]

tager, on Jan 22 2010, 03:13 PM, said:

I looked at the boat. I dove into the cold cold Puget Sound, so I didn't get to look around for the zinc, but the keel hull joint is tight, and the keel appeared to be totally rust free. The keel was sandblasted and cold tar epoxied 3 years ago, along with bottom paint. The bottom paint is going strong, Puget Sound is cold. There were a few barnacles and some mussels, and one anenome, but it is pretty clean overall. The keel bolts appear to be original, but they are stainless, and appear to be solid by looking at the nuts. I am not sure if the bolts are through-bolted to a flange or threaded in, but either way, they should get the boat from Anacortes to Seattle.

Three year bottom paint is that clean? I want to know what they're using or that boat has just been scrubbed. I'm in Everett, I know Puget Sound is cold, and I still see two years out of most bottom jobs. Dock queens with two coats of bottom paint last longer as long as the slime gets wiped off now and again.

Quote

The bilge was wet, but I tasted it and it was fresh water... I hope I don't get some disease. The ports leak, and one mounting bolt for a T-track leaks. This explains the water in the bilge.

Ports are a bitch. Are they in good shape but the seal is leaking? Okay, that's a pain in the ass to do but not expensive - spend a weekend getting the ports out without breaking them (plastic or bronze frames?) and rebed them in good polysulfide or non-silicone caulk. If the ports themselves are leaking, that's a much bigger pain in the ass and potentially expensive. Bronze ports can possibly be disassembled and redone to seal the leak, but not definitely, and plastic - well, you're better off getting new ones. That's a boat buck, roughly - all six in plastic frames for my Islander 28 will cost around $600 with tempered glass but that doesn't include shipping, tax, or any of the secondary stuff for the install. And for me that's going to the original manufacturer - who knows if you can do that for the Haida.

Quote

There are a few small soft spots in the deck. The deck is a plywood deck with a lot of camber, it is over frames, and has a layer of dynex? glass on top. What is the best way to fix a small soft spots? I was thinking of cutting out from underneath with a router and a cutoff wheel, then scabbing in a new peice of marine ply with epoxy, and glassing that in with epoxy and mat. Should I use mat or roving? Then I would fix the leak that caused the soft spot in the first place.

Well, first, is it rot? You don't know that yet (or if you do you don't say.) If it's a soft spot around a piece of hardware, okay, probably rot, but there's an easy way to check. Drill through the deck in the middle of the soft spot - is the core you bring up wet mush, wet sawdust, or dry sawdust? Wet mush, it's rot, your plan is probably simplest (and I'd use roving, 6 oz probably, at least two layers in different directions. Mat is for Hunters.) Wet sawdust, it's leaking but not rotting, fix the leak, drill several holes through the deck in the area, cover with plastic, dry it out thorough and patch the holes with thick epoxy (and a hearty squirt between the wood and the fiberglass deck to rebond the fiberglass with the core.) Dry sawdust, it's not a leak, it's just the deck coming loose from the core which happens in older boats in high stress areas. Repair is the same as for wet but solid core - drill some holes through the fiberglass, use thickened epoxy to rebond with the core, done.

Quote

The cockpit lockers are hinged, but the hinges were screwed into marine ply that is long gone. I am planning on scraping out all of the rotten wood, treating the hole with epoxy, putting in a new piece of trex decking or marine ply epoxied in place. Does epoxy work well on trex? I think it is HDPE like milk bottles. If not should I try starboard? I may just use marine ply and epoxy for cost.

Take out the rotted wood, replace it with marine ply or dimension lumber that's suitable, cover with a skin of fiberglass. It'll last longer and look better.

Anywhere you want to put a bolt or screw into wood, you want to prevent water from getting to the wood. The classic method is to drill an oversize hole, fill with thickened epoxy, then drill the proper size hole for your bolt. That doesn't work for screws but screws are rarely the right answer, anyway - bolts are more secure and easier to replace or adjust later.

Quote

The rig is old, but sound and not rusty. Should get me home.

How old? Masts last forever, spreaders and small hardware not so much, standing rigging... what's the current recommendation, replace every 10 years or as warranted by inspection?

Mainsail is bagged out but looks okay. Running rigging is old buy works. Winches need lube but work.
Repeat after me - winches never need lube.

OK, that's not technically true, but it's close. Why do you say they need lube? Difficult to turn, metal on metal scraping noises? That's not lube, that's what modern couples use lube for.

I have decided she is a good deal. As is she can go sailing safely in the sound.
Probably. And more to the point, if you've decided and you fell in love with her at the dock, it ain't worth talking about anyway. <Grin>

She requires about $2000 and 200 hours of work to get her up to snuff. Another $3000 and 200 hours before I would sail her to Hawaii..
Double the money and at least double the hours on both of those. Bet? You haven't yet spent an entire 8 hour day trying to get one bolt free. But you will. Not saying it isn't worth it, mind.

Congrats on finding your boat.

[tager]

I guess you could call me an optimist. I have spent an entire day trying to get a bolt free. That was in a '64 Plymouth Fury though, not a boat. I really hope it doesn't happen on the Haida. The ports are Aluminum framed with sliding openings. I think I will be able to put in new seals and they should work.

I was excited to hear that she had a $7000 awlgrip job 3 years ago. That made me happy. The topsides are the best looking part of the boat!

You are probably right about the double the money part... I might just apply at west marine so I can get employee discounts over the years.

[tager]

Here is the deal: I am buying a Haida 26 "Keet" in Anacortes, and bringing her down to my liveaboard slip on Lake Union. Currently there is my Islander Bahama 24 "Gusto" in my slip. The goal is to get Gusto from Lake Union to my buoy in Quartermaster Harbor, and get Keet from Anacortes to Lake Union.

I have only weekends to acheive this, and there is no overflow moorage at my marina.

A CLOSE SHAVE: One weekend
A really close shave would be to leave Anacortes late Friday night (10pm), motor to the locks, and Eastlake. It is 70NM from one to the other, with a railroad swing bridge, the Swinomish Channel, a lot of open water, the ballard locks, and the Fremont Bridge in between. I would then transfer my belongings late in the day Saturday, switch boats, and motor back to the locks. Having calculated hull speed and distances and a detailed plan, this looks like it would get me to my buoy in QM around Sunday night 6pm, totally exhausted, needing to be in class at 9:30 am the next morning.

LESS CLOSE SHAVE: Two Weekends
Arrive at Anacortes Friday night, shop for groceries, replace a nav bulb, do some skateboarding with my friend whose mom will drop us off. Saturday morning, leave for Eagle Harbor on Bainbridge. Leave the Haida at the dock for a few hours or overnight, commute to Eastlake on WSDOT ferry boat. Depart Eastlake in my Islander for Eagle Harbor public dock. Move belongings from one boat to the other, then head back to Eastlake in the Haida, leaving the Islander either at anchor or at the public dock in Eagle Harbor for the week.

Return next weekend and bring Islander to Quartermaster Harbor.

I like this option because I would not have to leave port on Friday. I also would not have to raft up at my marina at Eastlake that lacks overflow moorage.

THE RELAXED WAY:
Arrive at Anacortes Friday night, go skate, get KEET ship shape, and leave Saturday morning. Go through the Swinomish Channel and down to Eagle harbor. Leave KEET at anchor in Eagle Harbor and bum a ride to the dock. Ride the ferry to Eastlake. Go to classes for a week.

The next weekend take the Islander to Eagle Harbor, raft up to the Haida, transfer my stuff, and sail KEET to my empty slip at Eastlake. Leave the Islander anchored for a week.

Return the next weekend to bring the Islander to my buoy in Quartermaster.

This option keeps all of the trips down to some reasonable amount per weekend.

I have a good amount of crew who want to help.




So what would you do? The one weekend, two weekend, or three weekend method?

[hobot]

#4, Donate the Islander to the Sea Scouts on Northlake Way.

[Ishmael]

You don't specify the option where you bang your friend's mom and she helps you out in innumerable ways. You may want to consider the virtue of cougars in your planning.

[tager]

My friends mom is dropping us off in Anacortes, but I don't think that I would bang her.

I can't donate it to Sea Scouts, I am too cheap! I am a UW student, deep in debt. I just hope I can recover $1000 from the Islander. I have probably put in a little over $2500 by now.

The Haida will eat up much more cash, but the reward is that I have a nice cruiser which I can put my pants on inside.
I am excited!

[Ishmael]

tager, on Jan 23 2010, 10:13 PM, said:

My friends mom is dropping us off in Anacortes, but I don't think that I would bang her.

I can't donate it to Sea Scouts, I am too cheap! I am a UW student, deep in debt. I just hope I can recover $1000 from the Islander. I have probably put in a little over $2500 by now.

The Haida will eat up much more cash, but the reward is that I have a nice cruiser which I can put my pants on inside.
I am excited!

If you can put your pants on, you're not excited. :D

[PNW Matt B]

tager, on Jan 23 2010, 10:13 PM, said:

My friends mom is dropping us off in Anacortes, but I don't think that I would bang her.

I can't donate it to Sea Scouts, I am too cheap! I am a UW student, deep in debt. I just hope I can recover $1000 from the Islander. I have probably put in a little over $2500 by now.

The Haida will eat up much more cash, but the reward is that I have a nice cruiser which I can put my pants on inside.
I am excited!

Donate it to Sea Scouts.

You will not sell an Islander 24 for $1000 quickly in today's market. Parked on a mooring with limited to no maintenance you'll get even less for her. I ended up giving away a solid and servicable Cal 25 - and that with an active fleet just down I-5 in Portland. Donate her and claim the deduction on your taxes next year, it's as good as cash and you don't have to watch her decay on the mooring because you don't have time to maintain her.

And Anacortes to Lake Union is a very long day but an easy two days. Forget the swing bridge, it's never an issue; if by a miracle it's closed, do circles for five minutes and it won't be. Stay to the right side of the channel through the Swinomish. Logical overnight stops are Everett, Oak Harbor, and Edmonds if you don't mind a long first day. Edmonds gives you the most flexibility for getting through the locks on day 2.