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Mini 6.5 Pogo 2....


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#1 Open Sailing

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 04:32 PM

Hello all,

We, Open Sailing, proud supporter of SA wanted to make sure that the "WORLD" knew that the POGO 2 will be built in the USA as of summer 2010!!

To stay in touch with development of the project and news, check out our NEWS section.

If you have questions or inquiries, feel free to contact us as well.

cheers

jerome

Posted Image



#2 pogen

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 05:17 PM

Fucking sweet.

#3 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 07:32 PM

Makes me wish I could walk again.

#4 liquid courage

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 11:42 PM

I want one......now.

#5 André

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 11:58 PM

Wow. Looks great. Sticky in the light ?

#6 SonOfASailor

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 03:30 AM

Badass.

One question.

Did that bow sprit come from a stop sign post?

#7 Alfred E. Bush

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 04:14 AM

So, $75K for a 21' boat with 0 amenities, no class, and we're supposed to get excited? In case you missed it, we're still stuck in a recession and nobody's got $75K spare change to pretend they're some Figaro sailor on a romantic mission to conquer France.

#8 CowboyKell

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 09:42 PM

So, $75K for a 21' boat with 0 amenities, no class, and we're supposed to get excited? In case you missed it, we're still stuck in a recession and nobody's got $75K spare change to pretend they're some Figaro sailor on a romantic mission to conquer France.


Exactly, only $75K. for a boat that is, albeit slowly, building in numbers here.

I'm excited about it. Have sailed on a non-Pogo. Test sailing an Owen Clark soon. The Pogo 2 is definately on the list.

Recession??? Who??? thats just some conspiracy made up by the unemployed and those that embrace them.
If you sail, $75K is chump change. If you complain about it, well, keep complaining, I'm sure that will get you out of the ranks of the destitute and into some real success very soon.

#9 Steam Flyer

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 12:10 AM

... ...
Recession??? Who??? thats just some conspiracy made up by the unemployed and those that embrace them.


Good, I'll tell that to my tea-partyer friends next time tehy start whining about how everey time Obama starts talking, the stock market takes another dive.

If you sail, $75K is chump change. ... ...


Glad you feel that way, you can buy a bunch of 'em. I'd be glad to help you build up the class on your nickel, I bet you could be real popular.

FB- Doug

#10 eKo Mini 650 Builder

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 01:49 AM

Jerome,

Welcome to the fun.

Sam

#11 Maggman

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 04:45 AM

I think we are starting to see a class form. Here in SF we have the start of a little fleet. There have been three on the start line for some of the OYRA races and I know there are at least two more in the area that haven't been out. I think if we get five on the line we have our own start. Not to mention the two that are entered for the Pac-Cup this year.

By the way I love sailing these things. If I ever have enough money for one I am getting one.

#12 CowboyKell

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Posted 07 May 2010 - 12:39 AM


... ...
Recession??? Who??? thats just some conspiracy made up by the unemployed and those that embrace them.


Good, I'll tell that to my tea-partyer friends next time tehy start whining about how everey time Obama starts talking, the stock market takes another dive.

well, that parts true. But hey, who cares, You can make money in both directions. Now, we'll talk about the taxes in GA.

If you sail, $75K is chump change. ... ...


Glad you feel that way, you can buy a bunch of 'em. I'd be glad to help you build up the class on your nickel, I bet you could be real popular.

FB- Doug


I've actually thought about this. Of course mine will be the Pogo2, the rest will be Dudley Dixs.

#13 Open Sailing

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 05:07 PM

Hello,

some shots of the Pogo 2, inside, outside, sailing,...:Open Sailng Pogo 2 Picasa Album


questions?

cheers

jerome

#14 Lost in Translation

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:34 PM

Question for you: do you give up much without the canting keel on the Pogo's versus the proto's? The mini looks like an incredible boat, and I'm just curious about the tradeoff in simplicity versus performance. Do you loose any of the "mini" feeling downwind on a reach with the fixed keel?

They look like great boats. I'd love to try one sometime.

#15 socalsailor38

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:31 PM

Question for you: do you give up much without the canting keel on the Pogo's versus the proto's? The mini looks like an incredible boat, and I'm just curious about the tradeoff in simplicity versus performance. Do you loose any of the "mini" feeling downwind on a reach with the fixed keel?

They look like great boats. I'd love to try one sometime.


The biggest difference is when going upwind. In my opinion, series are really great options for everything except the mini circuit in europe, but even then, they hold their own

#16 RedFlag

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:59 PM


Question for you: do you give up much without the canting keel on the Pogo's versus the proto's? The mini looks like an incredible boat, and I'm just curious about the tradeoff in simplicity versus performance. Do you loose any of the "mini" feeling downwind on a reach with the fixed keel?

They look like great boats. I'd love to try one sometime.


The biggest difference is when going upwind. In my opinion, series are really great options for everything except the mini circuit in europe, but even then, they hold their own


Actually, in a European Mini race, series have their own class, thet don't actually race against the protos (although, of course, they do !!!).

Series minis really could seem crippled when compared to protos : mast 1 meter shorter, fixed keel 0.4 meters shorter, no ballasts, no carbon in hull or mast. They weigh approx 1100kg while recent protos weigh in under 700 kg (which actually compensates for some of the righting moment (=power) lost in the fixed keel).

But despite all this, you're right : they definitely hold their own. A Pogo 2 even made 4th place overall in the first leg of last year's mini transat. Another one won Les Sables - Les Acores - Les Sables in 2008 (many protos suffered various damage). Of course, you loose some of the "ultra-light, over-powered sled" feeling, but you still get more of it than most will ever feel.

And sailing a Pogo 2 in a european race is practically sailing a one design class. Almost all of last year's races had only Pogo's at the first 10 places in series. It makes for REALLY interesting sailing.

#17 socalsailor38

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 09:35 PM



Question for you: do you give up much without the canting keel on the Pogo's versus the proto's? The mini looks like an incredible boat, and I'm just curious about the tradeoff in simplicity versus performance. Do you loose any of the "mini" feeling downwind on a reach with the fixed keel?

They look like great boats. I'd love to try one sometime.


The biggest difference is when going upwind. In my opinion, series are really great options for everything except the mini circuit in europe, but even then, they hold their own


Actually, in a European Mini race, series have their own class, thet don't actually race against the protos (although, of course, they do !!!).

Series minis really could seem crippled when compared to protos : mast 1 meter shorter, fixed keel 0.4 meters shorter, no ballasts, no carbon in hull or mast. They weigh approx 1100kg while recent protos weigh in under 700 kg (which actually compensates for some of the righting moment (=power) lost in the fixed keel).

But despite all this, you're right : they definitely hold their own. A Pogo 2 even made 4th place overall in the first leg of last year's mini transat. Another one won Les Sables - Les Acores - Les Sables in 2008 (many protos suffered various damage). Of course, you loose some of the "ultra-light, over-powered sled" feeling, but you still get more of it than most will ever feel.

And sailing a Pogo 2 in a european race is practically sailing a one design class. Almost all of last year's races had only Pogo's at the first 10 places in series. It makes for REALLY interesting sailing.


yeah, i wasn't clear in my response, they do race in their own class

#18 Open Sailing

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:23 PM



Question for you: do you give up much without the canting keel on the Pogo's versus the proto's? The mini looks like an incredible boat, and I'm just curious about the tradeoff in simplicity versus performance. Do you loose any of the "mini" feeling downwind on a reach with the fixed keel?

They look like great boats. I'd love to try one sometime.


The biggest difference is when going upwind. In my opinion, series are really great options for everything except the mini circuit in europe, but even then, they hold their own


Actually, in a European Mini race, series have their own class, thet don't actually race against the protos (although, of course, they do !!!).

Series minis really could seem crippled when compared to protos : mast 1 meter shorter, fixed keel 0.4 meters shorter, no ballasts, no carbon in hull or mast. They weigh approx 1100kg while recent protos weigh in under 700 kg (which actually compensates for some of the righting moment (=power) lost in the fixed keel).

But despite all this, you're right : they definitely hold their own. A Pogo 2 even made 4th place overall in the first leg of last year's mini transat. Another one won Les Sables - Les Acores - Les Sables in 2008 (many protos suffered various damage). Of course, you loose some of the "ultra-light, over-powered sled" feeling, but you still get more of it than most will ever feel.

And sailing a Pogo 2 in a european race is practically sailing a one design class. Almost all of last year's races had only Pogo's at the first 10 places in series. It makes for REALLY interesting sailing.


I can't agree more. The difference between Proto and Production Minis is pretty much the same than one design versus handicap racing. The canting keel is definitely a plus and allows to keep the boat powered up when non-canting keelboats have to ease out to keep it flat. Protos are great little boats but what I see is two inconvenients: 1) the price - a proto is at least twice as much as a production mini. 2) is fragile. Although the boats are built with carbon fiber, it is still all about weight and these boats are built light...which means they can break more often. The SA/D is insane and these guys really push their boats hard.
However, it is not rare to see some production boats doing as well if not better than the prototypes on the race course.
Without canting keel, the production minis still get on a plane with descent breeze and will definitely show steady speed in the high teens. The "mini feel" is still there!
The Pogo 2 is definitely leading the fleet in the Mini racing scene.
Hope we can see more Mini racing in the USA...because I don't have the budget or the time to sail in France! ;-)

#19 Jambalaya

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 06:10 AM

I'd just add that Proto vs Pogo is more like de-tuned OD versus full-on Box Rule - in reality you cannot realistically expect to win or get on the podium in the Transat in a Pogo.

That being said the Pogo's offer great racing, access to the events in a cheaper and more robust package.

Excuse me for fogetting the skippers name but the Pogo which was up with the leader last time was being exceptionally well sailed in heavy air down-wind when the more radical Protos were holding back.

#20 Andraz Seascape18

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:49 AM

Actually it is completely different philosophy between protos and series (where Pogo2 rules at the moment). Protos are usually ran by fully founded professionals (few) or dreaming enthusiasts who are often more boat builders than sailors. In serie owners are usually less colorful (relatively off course) with regular jobs, who take mini as very serious hobby and not so much the lifestyle.
The performance difference between protos and series is on average about 5-10% which is often not enough to compensate robustness and simplicity of series which allow sailors to sail on higher efficiency coefficient.
It is like everything in life - last 5% costs a lot but for some people it is worth it.
So all comes down to the question of time and dedication. If you plan to dedicate your whole life to mini, proto is the way to go, if you want to have it as very fun and demanding hobby, or platform to satisfy your sponsor (they don't really understand the difference and you have much better chances for good result in serie ) serie is what you want.

Also keep in mind that lots of Pogo2 were sold to people that never race in Mini circuit but have it as very fast and extremly seaworthy performance cruiser.

#21 Abilyn Racing

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 06:30 AM

Hello all,

We, Open Sailing, proud supporter of SA wanted to make sure that the "WORLD" knew that the POGO 2 will be built in the USA as of summer 2010!!

To stay in touch with development of the project and news, check out our NEWS section.

If you have questions or inquiries, feel free to contact us as well.

cheers

jerome



Understanding that you're the guys selling the boat and, therefore, are somewhat biased on the subject, how will production in the U.S. differ, if at all, from production overseas. For example, is there any sense that you'll run into any problems much like J Boats ran into problems when it began manufacturing its 109s in Rhode Island rather than France?

#22 Open Sailing

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 07:58 PM

Understanding that you're the guys selling the boat and, therefore, are somewhat biased on the subject, how will production in the U.S. differ, if at all, from production overseas. For example, is there any sense that you'll run into any problems much like J Boats ran into problems when it began manufacturing its 109s in Rhode Island rather than France?


Hello ScallywagLIS,

I am not familiar with the problems that Jboats had building the J109.
We have now worked on the Pogo 2 project for 8 months. We basically started to talk to Pogo Structures and Finot/Conq at the 2009 Paris Boat show last winter. Since then, many many phone calls and emails were exchanged. I also spend some time in France early July to review more production details with the French, directly at the builder. The molds were shipped with some delays, and we are being schedule but the first hull is now in production as we speak. Later this month, the production manager of Pogo Structures will spend 10 days with us to help us out and control the quality of the first boat. This is obviously a learning process but, honestly, I think we have covered all aspects of the production details and are making sure that the U.S. built Pogo 2 will be the exact copy of the French one.
- We are not rushing the project. As mentioned, it has been 8 months since we started.
- We have had a great relationship with Finot/Conq Group for the past 3 years now. They really helped us out with plans, drawings and technical advice.
- Pogo Structures is very involved in the project. They obviously know the boat very well and the transfer of knowledge is smooth, but a bit slow.
- We have spent time in France to better understand some details of the production.
- We are using the original Pogo 2 molds. This is very important.
- We speak are bilingual French / English so we are not getting lost in translation.
- Columbia Yachts is a great builder and pay great attention to all details. We have been very successful in building the Open 5.70 in the USA with Columbia Yachts. We are hoping the same with the Pogo 2.
- Other aspects of the boats: hardware, spars, lines is also very well controlled and again, will be identical to the French build Pogo 2.
- Finally, while in France, we met some of the Classe Mini officers and they approved the project. One of the officer will actually fly to Los Angeles and also make sure the Pogo 2 is the same as the French one and approve U.S. built boats.
- Regarding export, we are still working on the numbers. Pogo Structures will still be able to support European sailors and provide spare parts to them. In addition, we are going to offer an export price to Europe. We will most likely not make a dime on the export boats but will still be able to offer a quality, fast built Pogo2.

Hope this answer the question...or did I miss it entirely?

Thanks

jerome

#23 us7070

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 08:27 PM

boat looks great!

as far as price goes..., sure - if you want to do 1 mile windward-leewards, you can spend a lot less than $75k.

but, if you want to do ocean racing on a safe and manageable boat, built for the task, $75k is a bargain.

i have a question though:

in new england, a lot of our coastal races end up having a significant amount of upwind sailing - i've seen the vineyard race be a beat out, and a beat back.

will i ever finish a race like that in this boat?

#24 socalsailor38

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 08:53 PM

boat looks great!

as far as price goes..., sure - if you want to do 1 mile windward-leewards, you can spend a lot less than $75k.

but, if you want to do ocean racing on a safe and manageable boat, built for the task, $75k is a bargain.

i have a question though:

in new england, a lot of our coastal races end up having a significant amount of upwind sailing - i've seen the vineyard race be a beat out, and a beat back.

will i ever finish a race like that in this boat?


well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult

#25 Open Sailing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 02:47 AM

well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult


Not really. The minis have lots of righting moment and do MUCH better upwind than any other 21 foot keel boats.
Of course reaching and broad reaching are a treat but don't under estimate the performance of these boats upwind. Large beam, fairly deep keel with bulb gives you plenty of stability and power upwind. Of course, if you race against a 40 footer, you'll be behind. Damn waterline! :-)

Cheers

Jerome

#26 Abilyn Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 03:27 AM


Understanding that you're the guys selling the boat and, therefore, are somewhat biased on the subject, how will production in the U.S. differ, if at all, from production overseas. For example, is there any sense that you'll run into any problems much like J Boats ran into problems when it began manufacturing its 109s in Rhode Island rather than France?


Hello ScallywagLIS,

I am not familiar with the problems that Jboats had building the J109.
We have now worked on the Pogo 2 project for 8 months. We basically started to talk to Pogo Structures and Finot/Conq at the 2009 Paris Boat show last winter. Since then, many many phone calls and emails were exchanged. I also spend some time in France early July to review more production details with the French, directly at the builder. The molds were shipped with some delays, and we are being schedule but the first hull is now in production as we speak. Later this month, the production manager of Pogo Structures will spend 10 days with us to help us out and control the quality of the first boat. This is obviously a learning process but, honestly, I think we have covered all aspects of the production details and are making sure that the U.S. built Pogo 2 will be the exact copy of the French one.
- We are not rushing the project. As mentioned, it has been 8 months since we started.
- We have had a great relationship with Finot/Conq Group for the past 3 years now. They really helped us out with plans, drawings and technical advice.
- Pogo Structures is very involved in the project. They obviously know the boat very well and the transfer of knowledge is smooth, but a bit slow.
- We have spent time in France to better understand some details of the production.
- We are using the original Pogo 2 molds. This is very important.
- We speak are bilingual French / English so we are not getting lost in translation.
- Columbia Yachts is a great builder and pay great attention to all details. We have been very successful in building the Open 5.70 in the USA with Columbia Yachts. We are hoping the same with the Pogo 2.
- Other aspects of the boats: hardware, spars, lines is also very well controlled and again, will be identical to the French build Pogo 2.
- Finally, while in France, we met some of the Classe Mini officers and they approved the project. One of the officer will actually fly to Los Angeles and also make sure the Pogo 2 is the same as the French one and approve U.S. built boats.
- Regarding export, we are still working on the numbers. Pogo Structures will still be able to support European sailors and provide spare parts to them. In addition, we are going to offer an export price to Europe. We will most likely not make a dime on the export boats but will still be able to offer a quality, fast built Pogo2.

Hope this answer the question...or did I miss it entirely?

Thanks

jerome


Hi Jerome,

Thanks for your response. You definitely answered the question, at least for me. I believe the problems associated with the Rhode Island-based manufacturing of the J 109 came down simply to poor production quality, which sounds it won't be a problem with Columbia Yachts.

By the way, I'm the same guy who e-mailed you about the cockpit chair on FRA 774...just trying to get all the info I can :-)

Best,
Josh

#27 Abilyn Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 03:35 AM


well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult


Not really. The minis have lots of righting moment and do MUCH better upwind than any other 21 foot keel boats.
Of course reaching and broad reaching are a treat but don't under estimate the performance of these boats upwind. Large beam, fairly deep keel with bulb gives you plenty of stability and power upwind. Of course, if you race against a 40 footer, you'll be behind. Damn waterline! :-)

Cheers

Jerome



Although, I did see a video of a mini passing a Class 40 downwind!

This brings up a good point. How well does a mini, and the Pogo 2 in particular, perform under corrected time? I assume a mini would be destroyed under an IRC rating, so I'm also assuming U.S. mini racers in mixed fleets race under PHRF, but I could be wrong. If raced under PHRF, is there any likelihood of success in a distance race for a good mini racer, or is this a true one design class?

I also race in New England so I'm thinking about distance races like the Vineyard Race, Around Block Island Race, Around Long Island Race, Ida Lewis, etc.

#28 socalsailor38

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 04:27 AM


well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult


Not really. The minis have lots of righting moment and do MUCH better upwind than any other 21 foot keel boats.
Of course reaching and broad reaching are a treat but don't under estimate the performance of these boats upwind. Large beam, fairly deep keel with bulb gives you plenty of stability and power upwind. Of course, if you race against a 40 footer, you'll be behind. Damn waterline! :-)

Cheers

Jerome


Right, of course they are much more stable and heavier, but waterline is waterline unfortunately

#29 steveromagnino

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 05:24 AM

Right, of course they are much more stable and heavier, but waterline is waterline unfortunately


I have a mini transat production pogo 1 sailor in my crew.

He said compared to most 21 foot keelers the mini is damn quick in all directions.

Compared to a fast sportboat (thompson 650 shaw 650 I presume open 650 mach 650 k650 viper 640) or similar size, the mini is way slower except possibly in over 20 knots where the gap narrows. Its a function of righting moment from crew and the huge amount of stuff and structure a mini requires which a sportboat does not.
Our target speed upwind is 6.7 knots for instance.
We plane in 10 knots.

Under irc most sportboats and minis rate pretty poorly. You would use irc and club racing to hone skills for passage and mini specific racing I would guess.

I am quite enamoured with them :-). Lovely little boat.

#30 PocketRocket

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:29 PM



well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult


Not really. The minis have lots of righting moment and do MUCH better upwind than any other 21 foot keel boats.
Of course reaching and broad reaching are a treat but don't under estimate the performance of these boats upwind. Large beam, fairly deep keel with bulb gives you plenty of stability and power upwind. Of course, if you race against a 40 footer, you'll be behind. Damn waterline! :-)

Cheers

Jerome



Although, I did see a video of a mini passing a Class 40 downwind!

This brings up a good point. How well does a mini, and the Pogo 2 in particular, perform under corrected time? I assume a mini would be destroyed under an IRC rating, so I'm also assuming U.S. mini racers in mixed fleets race under PHRF, but I could be wrong. If raced under PHRF, is there any likelihood of success in a distance race for a good mini racer, or is this a true one design class?

I also race in New England so I'm thinking about distance races like the Vineyard Race, Around Block Island Race, Around Long Island Race, Ida Lewis, etc.


Well I've been racing PHRF (in a proto mind you, so a bit different, but not that different I imagine) and in the shorter ocean races from SF (out to the Lightship and the Farralones) it's a bit hard to hold my own against boats like Express 27s that go upwind so much better. That being said, I was first monohull to finish the Doublehanded Lightship (corrected to 3rd).. For the longer offshore stuff (just did PacCup) we were the 6th boat to get to Hawaii, 2nd to get there on our doublehanded division, and corrected out to 3rd (again behind two Express 27s... there's a pattern here)

But I'm not an excellent Mini sailor yet, this was my first season in the boat, and the learning curve is still steep. And the big thing to keep in mind here is that Minis are just so freaking awesome and so much fun to sail, the final results in the PacCup were slightly less important to me than the fact that I had an amazing time on the way over, and had some of the fastest days of the entire fleet, on the smallest boat.

#31 us7070

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:54 PM

i think most people interested in this boat do not really care how well they correct against other boats in local distance races.

most people want to do real offshore races, sailing against other mini's.

but, these local distance races will be where we figure the boat out.

the issue i was raising is just that while most of the real offshore races have (mostly) downwind courses, these local races always seem to be a lot of upwind work.

i guess the answer is..., you just start the race, and if it seems you won't complete it in the time you have available (not necessarily the time limit), you just quit and try again next time.

#32 Abilyn Racing

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:27 PM




well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult


Not really. The minis have lots of righting moment and do MUCH better upwind than any other 21 foot keel boats.
Of course reaching and broad reaching are a treat but don't under estimate the performance of these boats upwind. Large beam, fairly deep keel with bulb gives you plenty of stability and power upwind. Of course, if you race against a 40 footer, you'll be behind. Damn waterline! :-)

Cheers

Jerome



Although, I did see a video of a mini passing a Class 40 downwind!

This brings up a good point. How well does a mini, and the Pogo 2 in particular, perform under corrected time? I assume a mini would be destroyed under an IRC rating, so I'm also assuming U.S. mini racers in mixed fleets race under PHRF, but I could be wrong. If raced under PHRF, is there any likelihood of success in a distance race for a good mini racer, or is this a true one design class?

I also race in New England so I'm thinking about distance races like the Vineyard Race, Around Block Island Race, Around Long Island Race, Ida Lewis, etc.


Well I've been racing PHRF (in a proto mind you, so a bit different, but not that different I imagine) and in the shorter ocean races from SF (out to the Lightship and the Farralones) it's a bit hard to hold my own against boats like Express 27s that go upwind so much better. That being said, I was first monohull to finish the Doublehanded Lightship (corrected to 3rd).. For the longer offshore stuff (just did PacCup) we were the 6th boat to get to Hawaii, 2nd to get there on our doublehanded division, and corrected out to 3rd (again behind two Express 27s... there's a pattern here)

But I'm not an excellent Mini sailor yet, this was my first season in the boat, and the learning curve is still steep. And the big thing to keep in mind here is that Minis are just so freaking awesome and so much fun to sail, the final results in the PacCup were slightly less important to me than the fact that I had an amazing time on the way over, and had some of the fastest days of the entire fleet, on the smallest boat.


Then I suppose the real question for the U.S. racing sailor contemplating a Mini purchase is whether he/she wants a hardcore boat that's fun to sail, or whether he/she wants to be competitive (in U.S.-based racing).

For the U.S. sailor who's interested in both, is the Mini even an option?

#33 eKo Mini 650 Builder

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 09:34 PM

Then I suppose the real question for the U.S. racing sailor contemplating a Mini purchase is whether he/she wants a hardcore boat that's fun to sail, or whether he/she wants to be competitive (in U.S.-based racing).

For the U.S. sailor who's interested in both, is the Mini even an option?



The mini is a choice. Check out http://forums.sailin...howtopic=111137 on beer can racing a mini. I think Kokopelli had fair results but the norm is to get used to being corrected off the podium in mixed fleet racing until there is enough density to class race minis against minis. My humble opinion that is.

#34 socalsailor38

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:42 PM


Then I suppose the real question for the U.S. racing sailor contemplating a Mini purchase is whether he/she wants a hardcore boat that's fun to sail, or whether he/she wants to be competitive (in U.S.-based racing).

For the U.S. sailor who's interested in both, is the Mini even an option?



The mini is a choice. Check out http://forums.sailin...howtopic=111137 on beer can racing a mini. I think Kokopelli had fair results but the norm is to get used to being corrected off the podium in mixed fleet racing until there is enough density to class race minis against minis. My humble opinion that is.


Talking about this the other day with Jerome. In some races, you'll be competitive, in some, you won't be, at least while the rating systems are seeing how the boats perform. Of course, ideally, you would be completing one design, but until that point, just be happy with the results you get

#35 kokopelli

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 05:51 AM

Nah EKO, I never really was competitive in fleet racing on bouy races. It was a little less painful on long distance races.

That said, don't expect to be competitive in PHRF. Period. Don't buy a mini if winning on corrected time is important to you. Don't buy a mini if winning pickle dished is important to you.

Buy a mini because you like to sail singlehanded in the ocean.

#36 Andraz Seascape18

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Posted 17 August 2010 - 07:59 AM

Hi guys, as it is obvious that mini is designed as ultimate 6.5 meter offshore single handed racer trough it's development became one of the most developed sailing crafts of it size. Protos surely are to complicated for round the cans with water balasts, running backstays, canting keel, asymetric daggerboards but are extremly fun in just a bit longer legs. I did finish ahead of IMX45 that cam fresh from IMS Europeans and just behind GP42 at one occasion racing 80 miles race around some islands in Croatia. We averaged 15 knots at one 30 mile leg which explains a lot.
At the other hand production boats are absolutely capable to sail round the cans. Except of their bowsprit (which you get used to quite quickly) they are just as much complicated as Melges24 or J80.

Also keep in mind that Mini is hi-performance piece of equipment and in order to sail at her's potential sailor must know what he or she is doing. Especially retrimming the boat after quick tacks or jibes, having guts to fly and jibe big kites in congested fleet... On classic bathtubs that normally race on round the cans getting to 99% is pretty easy which is generously rewarded by handicap.

When we talk about results in handicap or mixed fleet let's just put cards on the table. One thing is optimisation of one boat to the handicap rule and the other, just as significant or more is sailing ability of the sailor. My personal experience is that people who own Minis are generaly not inshore sailors by heart or knowledge so their performance on round the cans is therefore usually poor and boat is a welcome excuse.

That's why minis are box rule class and unlike handicap racing there is no or very little bullshit flying around. The first to cross the line is the winner and there are no excuses. Even excuse of money was nicely put in place by production boats in 2008-2009 seasons. Francisco with his Transat sails on his 40k EUR worth Pogo2 beat the crap out of high end protos. And that is the mini spirit - no bullshit, just sailing.

#37 Just Another Sailor

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:46 PM





well upwind, it's just like any other racing capable 20 footer, it could be difficult


Not really. The minis have lots of righting moment and do MUCH better upwind than any other 21 foot keel boats.
Of course reaching and broad reaching are a treat but don't under estimate the performance of these boats upwind. Large beam, fairly deep keel with bulb gives you plenty of stability and power upwind. Of course, if you race against a 40 footer, you'll be behind. Damn waterline! :-)

Cheers

Jerome


If you want to sail a mini you can find personal challenges. Several yrs ago I challendged Santa Cruz 70's first to finish on the Chic Mac Race sailing a Martin 243 sportboat. They beat me but we did finish w/ Farr 40's and that was with over 9 hour of weather work in 15+ kts at the start. It was fun no matter what the outcome. In other words just sail point to point courses and see where you come out. Chances are you wil lbe th talk at the bar.


Although, I did see a video of a mini passing a Class 40 downwind!

This brings up a good point. How well does a mini, and the Pogo 2 in particular, perform under corrected time? I assume a mini would be destroyed under an IRC rating, so I'm also assuming U.S. mini racers in mixed fleets race under PHRF, but I could be wrong. If raced under PHRF, is there any likelihood of success in a distance race for a good mini racer, or is this a true one design class?

I also race in New England so I'm thinking about distance races like the Vineyard Race, Around Block Island Race, Around Long Island Race, Ida Lewis, etc.


Well I've been racing PHRF (in a proto mind you, so a bit different, but not that different I imagine) and in the shorter ocean races from SF (out to the Lightship and the Farralones) it's a bit hard to hold my own against boats like Express 27s that go upwind so much better. That being said, I was first monohull to finish the Doublehanded Lightship (corrected to 3rd).. For the longer offshore stuff (just did PacCup) we were the 6th boat to get to Hawaii, 2nd to get there on our doublehanded division, and corrected out to 3rd (again behind two Express 27s... there's a pattern here)

But I'm not an excellent Mini sailor yet, this was my first season in the boat, and the learning curve is still steep. And the big thing to keep in mind here is that Minis are just so freaking awesome and so much fun to sail, the final results in the PacCup were slightly less important to me than the fact that I had an amazing time on the way over, and had some of the fastest days of the entire fleet, on the smallest boat.


Then I suppose the real question for the U.S. racing sailor contemplating a Mini purchase is whether he/she wants a hardcore boat that's fun to sail, or whether he/she wants to be competitive (in U.S.-based racing).

For the U.S. sailor who's interested in both, is the Mini even an option?



#38 ronnie_simpson

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:25 AM

I don't think Mini's necesarily rate poorly under PHRF. I seem to remember a few production (series) boats rating around 99. That's about the same as an Olson 30 out here in San Francisco. Under the right conditions, it can do okay. A 2 Win 650 was entered in the Singlehanded Transpac and was given a rating of 116. I personally feel that was a pretty favorable rating. The boat did not end up competing in the race, but if well sailed, should have done well. didn't Dave and Taylor rate like 78 in Pac Cup? The boat should have been that fast. Emma you rated something ridiculous like 24, only 3 seconds slower than Mumm 30. but you fucking sailed 276 miles in one day, so theoretically the boat was actually as fast as it was rated.

#39 socalsailor38

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 03:17 PM

I don't think Mini's necesarily rate poorly under PHRF. I seem to remember a few production (series) boats rating around 99. That's about the same as an Olson 30 out here in San Francisco. Under the right conditions, it can do okay. A 2 Win 650 was entered in the Singlehanded Transpac and was given a rating of 116. I personally feel that was a pretty favorable rating. The boat did not end up competing in the race, but if well sailed, should have done well. didn't Dave and Taylor rate like 78 in Pac Cup? The boat should have been that fast. Emma you rated something ridiculous like 24, only 3 seconds slower than Mumm 30. but you fucking sailed 276 miles in one day, so theoretically the boat was actually as fast as it was rated.


sure, it depends on the individual boat and the sailor, but in the beginning at least (if we're referencing to the growth of pogo 2's), it may be given difficult numbers to hit, until they see how well the mini's handle the different conditions. Also depends on the race itself

#40 ronnie_simpson

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 04:37 PM

socalsailor, i don't disagree with that at all. the Mini, as well as any radical ultra light boat, will be hard to rate fairly against more conventional keelboats. it's so light, slippery and over canvassed that it will fly downwind and under the right reaching conditions, whereas on a waterline reach or upwind, it will get absolutely slaughtered by other boats in the rating band that it's forced to sail. having said that, i'm still trying to get my hands on one...

#41 NAMT

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 05:40 PM

I don't think Mini's necesarily rate poorly under PHRF. I seem to remember a few production (series) boats rating around 99. That's about the same as an Olson 30 out here in San Francisco. Under the right conditions, it can do okay. A 2 Win 650 was entered in the Singlehanded Transpac and was given a rating of 116. I personally feel that was a pretty favorable rating. The boat did not end up competing in the race, but if well sailed, should have done well. didn't Dave and Taylor rate like 78 in Pac Cup? The boat should have been that fast. Emma you rated something ridiculous like 24, only 3 seconds slower than Mumm 30. but you fucking sailed 276 miles in one day, so theoretically the boat was actually as fast as it was rated.



My current NW PHRF rating for "Antidote" a stock series is 108.

I think Emma's rating, if it was 24, was very unfavourable & should be re-calculated citing other protos in NA that are very similar to Pocket Rocket.

#42 socalsailor38

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:58 PM

having said that, i'm still trying to get my hands on one...


yeah same here, will have some excellent competition if the pogo 2 (where i'm looking) fleet starts up

#43 lstsailr

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:14 PM

I found this poking around in the Rhode Island PHRF listings while looking for rating differences for my own boat between regions. Not sure what kind of minis these are, but 99 is tough on a 21 footer I would think.

Registrant Model Yacht Name Spin Non-Spin Base


Sharkey, Jay Mini Transat Carbon Neutral 99 113 99
Day, Simon Ministransat Josephine 99 108 99

#44 NAMT

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:44 PM

I found this poking around in the Rhode Island PHRF listings while looking for rating differences for my own boat between regions. Not sure what kind of minis these are, but 99 is tough on a 21 footer I would think.

Registrant Model Yacht Name Spin Non-Spin Base


Sharkey, Jay Mini Transat Carbon Neutral 99 113 99
Day, Simon Ministransat Josephine 99 108 99



Both of the boats you located with PHRF certs are older protos.
Jay raced 179 in the 2007 B 1-2 & 415 in the 2009 race.

179 Josephine 1993 P Petegehm-Prevost Simon Day, Newport, RI
415 CARBON Neutral 2003 P Berret-Racoupeau Jay Sharkey, Newport, RI
574 Pocket Rocket 2006 P Rogers Emma Creighton, San Francisco, CA

415 is closer to Pocket Rocket in terms of weight, all carbon rig - sail sizes would be very similar.
It certainly looks as though Pocket Rocket was assessed very differently & unfairly

#45 Trevor B

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 10:05 PM

PacCup is rated using NorCal's "downwind" rating. All the boats that can sail downwind got hit hard, although- looking at the results it seems as though the downwind rating are actually close to reality in a "downwind" race.
The only reasons Emma didn't win is that she blew up her runner and jibed about 6 hours too early.

#46 oarsrfaster

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:16 AM

With the old Pac Cup rating system minis did quite well, (SHTP) we have a displacement to length ratio above 100 so our ratings virtually all go up. The new system takes into account sail area so the mini takes a hard hit. We could shorten sprits, build smaller sails but really, why on gods blue earth, would you want to go slower???

I do feel that Emma kicked ass on the Pac Cup. Six hours early or not to sail 276 miles in a day in a 21 foot boat requires both skill and courage. Given the lack of testing the the new rating had I feel the racers should have put up more of a fight to use the old pac cup system until the comitte had enough time to assess and refine the ratings. I am cerious how many times Pac Cup boats had actually used there downwind rating? But it is really easy to bash rating systems, we could just fix this by having our own fleet of minis in two years. On the same token I am rated 76 downwind and can sail to the rating with the boat in one piece.

#47 Koh Samia

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Posted 28 August 2010 - 12:13 AM

I don't think Mini's necesarily rate poorly under PHRF. I seem to remember a few production (series) boats rating around 99. That's about the same as an Olson 30 out here in San Francisco. Under the right conditions, it can do okay. A 2 Win 650 was entered in the Singlehanded Transpac and was given a rating of 116. I personally feel that was a pretty favorable rating. The boat did not end up competing in the race, but if well sailed, should have done well. didn't Dave and Taylor rate like 78 in Pac Cup? The boat should have been that fast. Emma you rated something ridiculous like 24, only 3 seconds slower than Mumm 30. but you fucking sailed 276 miles in one day, so theoretically the boat was actually as fast as it was rated.


I just went back to the YRA and PacCup web sites and I just copy/paste the NorCal PHRF, Downwind and PCR (Pac Cup) ratings of the minis. Also, please remember that the sail size is taken into account on the rating. For example, Poco Loco seems to have a bigger spi than Koh Samia:

And Pocket Rocket's rating seems to be 33, not 24..


Protos:
Pocket Rocket 574, Mini Transat 6.5, PHRF 81 / Downwind 33 , PCR 33 , (Pac Cup: 548)
Flying Ace 305 , Mini Transat 6.5 , 87 / 30
Daisy Cutter 530 , Mini Transat 6.5 - Zero , 102 / 69 (carbon mast?)

Series:
Poco Loco 670 , Mini Transat 6.5 - Zero , 105 / 75
Koh Samia 714 , Mini Transat 6.5 - 2Win650 , 105 / 81, PCR 116

Also, for the Pac Cup

""" PCR = "downwind rating" + 515
The 515 correction converts the downwind rating into a predicted average speed in seconds per mile that the boat is expected to sail for the course. Note that this does not affect time deltas or results between PHRF based boats."""

Pocket Rocket took 11d 03:18:49 (962329 seconds) to complete the 2070 mile course, at an average of 465 seconds per course mile, so quite faster than the 548 of her rating.


But also, Horizon (SC50) finished in 8d 11:46:39 (733599 seconds) or 354 seconds per mile with a rating of 481, so may be if you are in front is because you sail faster than your rating...

Unless I'm wrong with the numbers or the understanding of the rating system, of course.

In any case, I hope we can be all there racing together soon... as I don't like numbers anyway ;-)



#48 Lost in Translation

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:42 PM

75 to 80 PHRF for a series is very different than 33 for an advanced proto. Is that spread typical and indicative of the performance difference downwind? How would a Pogo 2 rate?

#49 kokopelli

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 06:56 PM

Better way to look at the performance differences between series and protos is to look at CM race results. the Pogo 2 was giving some protos a serious run for their money in some of the heavy air downwind races.

Its the sailors not the boats which determines the finishing order.


If you have to quantify it in PHRF terms I'd throw out the following numbers for all round performance, and not just a downwind rating like the 33 for Pocket Rocket. There will not be a "regular" race where she can sail to that rating:

Series: 105-114
Proto: 81-90

Some boats will be better in the light stuff so pick your horses...

But don't get hung up on the rating, or if you are, don't buy a Mini.

#50 Open Sailing

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 03:27 PM

It's official: the classe mini announced on 09/21 that the Pogo 2 built in the USA will remain a production boat. We have worked really hard this year to make sure production will be identical to the Pogo 2 that was build in France. The French builder Structures and the group FINOT/CONQ were also very supportive.
As per the rules, one of the directors from the Class Association has now to make a trip to validate that the boat is in fact build the production rules. This will probably happen in November because most of the directors, who usually control the builders, are ready to leave for the Route du Rhum ! ;-)

Great news though!

The first Pogo 2 (hull # 112) is coming out of the factory early November. The second one (hull # 113) shortly after. If you want to test sail the Pogo 2, feel free to join us in sunny southern california in November or December by contacting us!

Cheers

Jerome

#51 PocketRocket

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:53 PM

My rating was set at 24, but then right before the start, Jim Antrim got in touch with me about it, said he thought it seemed unfair and was going to raise the question at the next PHRF meeting. So without even trying, I got a few extra seconds,(up to 33) which was awesome.

I think it's important to remember that these boats are relatively new out here, and everyone's still just trying to figure out what to do with them. I don't think anyone's trying to screw us over, in fact, I'd say that there are a lot of interested and supportive people around who would love to see more Minis on the race course. It's going to take a bit of time, and trial and error. If you're just looking to fill the trophy case right this second, snag something tried and true (Moore 24, Express 27, etc.).

Or you could always just be happy that you're sailing a challenging, sexy and exciting little boat, and take interest in being part of the process of getting the PHRF thing sorted rather than just whining about it. And having enough boats for our own starts would certainly help.

#52 Open Sailing

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 04:45 PM

I'd like to welcome the first two new US built Pogo 2! We received today the race/sail numbers for the first boats coming out of the factory in November:

- USA 804 - New owner Lee Malm who will be participating to the 2011 Mini Transat. Lee will be based in Southern California before heading to France next year for the race.
- USA 806 - "Team Open Sailing". Our boat will also be based in So. Cal. We are going to be busy running demo rides and practicing in between to start a full season of short handed racing in 2011.

With the end of the year holidays, I don't think we will have time to finish boat # 3 by the end of 2010 but new boats are already in the production schedule for 2011.

For those of you who know us (at Open Sailing), we are thrilled about the Pogo 2 finally coming into the USA. We worked really hard to get to this point and will do our best to support the owners (proto or production boats) and grow the mini class. This class is meant of great people, awesome sailors and terrific boats. We are looking forward to fun and safe racing across the US.

Cheers!

Jerome

#53 NAMT

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 05:02 PM

Congratulations.
It looks as though the Left coast is about to become the most active coast for Minis in North America.
I will add the boats to the fleet list.
Great to have another US MT entry - it looks like 4 right now.

#54 lstsailr

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 06:17 PM

Other than the lucky new Pogo owner, who are the other 3 racing the transat next year?

#55 NAMT

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:29 PM

The 3 other declared 2011 MT entries are:

574 - Pocket Rocket - proto - Emma Creighton
655 - OGOC : One Girl's Ocean Challenge - Zero, series - Dianne Reid
680 - Minimus - Zero, series - Nathan Baron

There ia also 1 additional undeclared entry.

#56 ctutmark

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:48 AM

The 3 other declared 2011 MT entries are:

574 - Pocket Rocket - proto - Emma Creighton
655 - OGOC : One Girl's Ocean Challenge - Zero, series - Dianne Reid
680 - Minimus - Zero, series - Nathan Baron

There ia also 1 additional undeclared entry.


Diane announced on her website a while back that she was now aiming for 2013

#57 ronnie_simpson

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 05:15 AM

why to like Nathan Baron reason #163:

he entered his Mini in a christmas parade and towed it down main street with lights affixed to the bow sprit.

!

go the nathan!

oh yeah, and emma.

#58 NAMT

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:37 AM

Ronnie,

That is a fantastic vid
I have to get it up on my website & it ought to be on Leo's.
Great for Nathan.

Chris,
Thanks for the correction re Emma's entry

#59 Total Slacker

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:25 AM

I'd like to welcome the first two new US built Pogo 2! We received today the race/sail numbers for the first boats coming out of the factory in November:

- USA 804 - New owner Lee Malm who will be participating to the 2011 Mini Transat. Lee will be based in Southern California before heading to France next year for the race.
- USA 806 - "Team Open Sailing". Our boat will also be based in So. Cal. We are going to be busy running demo rides and practicing in between to start a full season of short handed racing in 2011.

With the end of the year holidays, I don't think we will have time to finish boat # 3 by the end of 2010 but new boats are already in the production schedule for 2011.

For those of you who know us (at Open Sailing), we are thrilled about the Pogo 2 finally coming into the USA. We worked really hard to get to this point and will do our best to support the owners (proto or production boats) and grow the mini class. This class is meant of great people, awesome sailors and terrific boats. We are looking forward to fun and safe racing across the US.

Cheers!

Jerome


Hey Jerome,

I hope USA 804 and 806 will be joining Koh Samoa on some of the PSSA races this year. KS is targeting the Bishop Rock Race in February. It would be very cool having 3 minis on the line for the 165 mile race out to the Cortez Bank!

Mini On,

Slacker






#60 Total Slacker

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:27 AM

Sorry Koh! Looks like I spelled your name incorrectly - Koh Samia, I meant.

Cheers,

Slacker

#61 Open Sailing

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 03:34 PM

Sorry Koh! Looks like I spelled your name incorrectly - Koh Samia, I meant.

Cheers,

Slacker


I went to the PSSALA meeting last monday. Except for a couple of guys who'd like to see the mini scored in their own fleet, everyone was very welcoming. I hope we will have a few boats racing early next year with PSSALA!

cheers

jerome

#62 Open Sailing

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 02:56 PM

Hi everyone,

We attended the Regional PHRF meeting last night that was held at Long Beach Yacht Club. The members of the BOD listened to our presentation about the Pogo 2 and the minis in general. Most of them seemed to be very supportive, except for the "usual suspects"...

:D :angry:

The initial rating for the Pogo 2 has been set at 126/117/108 (respectively buoy rating/random leg rating/off the wind rating). After completing 5 races, we can appeal for a better rating.

#63 André

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 03:07 PM

126 does not seems so bad.

#64 Open Sailing

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 03:34 PM

126 does not seems so bad.


Well, sailors who get into Minis don't care about rating...and I am one of them.
However, we will do some buoy racing because we just love being on the water. The initial rating is not so bad, you're right, but we still going to have to race boats that will have a lot more waterline going upwind. The wind in southern california is light and the Pogo 2 (like all production minis) need a little more wind to keep up.
Oh well...not the end of the world but it always amazes me how PHRF can rate a boat in 5 minutes without seeing one, sailed one. I'd rather wait a week or two for a rating if we can expect the members of the PHRF board to truly analyses the boat and what the rating should be...I personally think the rating of a production mini in so. cal. should be around 135...

Cheers

jerome

#65 eKo Mini 650 Builder

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:14 PM

WOW 126.

My Pogo 1 had a 105 and could not sail anywhere near it on Bouy W/L courses. Whould be above a J80 based on my experience on Galveston Bay and definately much higher on the offshore windward courses, which they all seem to be on the Gulf Coast....

Sam

#66 dinghydock

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:42 PM

Last year I checked with the chief handicapper for Eastern Long Island and he said that without completing a thorough review he would rate a series mini the same as a J/80 which rates 120 here and 126 in Southern California...

#67 NAMT

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:45 PM

PNW PHRF gave Zero 726 - 108

When the new MCNA Board gets itself organized I will suggest that we gather all the eisting ratings assigned to boats & take a good look at them. Then we should consider contacting all PHRF NA rating officials & share info on boats, sail size differences etc & propose numbers that we think are appropriate given a narrow range of measurements & the PHRF rating system.

#68 dinghydock

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 07:30 PM

Great idea Adrian!

I think this topic deserves it's own thread!

PHRF is performance based so we would need to start accumulating actual racing results to help state our case for better ratings. Everyone should start gathering their own race results including weather conditions, types of courses, rating sailed under and results. We can amass a nice data base for mini sailors to take to their respective PHRF councils and get better ratings.



#69 Open Sailing

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:14 PM

here it is: USA 804 is about to be splashed. Lee (the owner) has been around the shop for the past couple of weeks to participate (and control) the installation of the electrical and electronics. We finished yesterday a custom bracket for the top of his mast instruments, his 65W stern mounted solar panel and an additional rotating bracket for his GPS.
USA 804 is very mini transat equipped...so filled up with goodies inside the boat!

Some shots of the boat will follow later today or tomorrow!

The Pogo 2 is ready to be test sail. Call us at 310-928-6570 or email. Demo rides start next weekend !!


cheers
jerome
Pogo 2 USA 806

#70 pierke

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:31 PM

Great progress ! Does Lee have a boatname yet ? Any pictures (if not it didn't happen ;-) ?

#71 Open Sailing

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 04:28 AM

Great progress ! Does Lee have a boatname yet ? Any pictures (if not it didn't happen ;-) ?


Here are some photos. The boat will be splashed Wednesday. First sail out Thursday with Lee we hope...and we are actually doing a first demo ride with another sailor (on Lee's boat, thanks Lee!) on Friday!
Lee shared with me today his boat's name...but wants to wait a little more to make it public...I think he wants to wait until the vinyl is on the transom.

Now that Lee's boat is almost finished, at least sail ready except for a few minor details, we are starting to work on the deck fittings, hardware and soon electronics and electrical on USA 806.

Cheers

jerome

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#72 Open Sailing

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 04:32 AM

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#73 184

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 12:53 AM

Looks great Jerome! Congrats! I'll bet Lee is very happy.

#74 NAMT

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 02:11 AM

Congratulations Jerome & Lee.

I guess CA is not the place to name a boat "General Lee", waiting to hear the choice.

Let's hope there are a bunch of people out here on the Left coast whose New Year's resolution will be to get a Mini.

#75 Open Sailing

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 08:54 PM

Some new photos of USA 804! and if you haven't checked our Facebook page, here is the link to a short video of the launch and first sail.



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#76 ctutmark

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 12:41 AM

Looks great Jerome!!!

Some new photos of USA 804! and if you haven't checked our Facebook page, here is the link to a short video of the launch and first sail.



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#77 Open Sailing

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:25 PM

Looks great Jerome!!!


Thanks Chris! Let us know when you want yours put in production! ;-) Pogo 2 Hull # 3 (or shall I say, hull # 114) is spoken for...more information coming soon!

#78 ctutmark

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 04:29 PM

Maybe Santa will take care of that for me.


Looks great Jerome!!!


Thanks Chris! Let us know when you want yours put in production! ;-) Pogo 2 Hull # 3 (or shall I say, hull # 114) is spoken for...more information coming soon!



#79 Open Sailing

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 05:01 PM

Maybe Santa will take care of that for me.


You are lucky: Santa and I are best buddies. I can make things work! Happy Holidays!

#80 NAMT

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 07:51 PM


Looks great Jerome!!!


Thanks Chris! Let us know when you want yours put in production! ;-) Pogo 2 Hull # 3 (or shall I say, hull # 114) is spoken for...more information coming soon!



Good news Jerome, I hope your 3rd P2 will stay on the Left coast.

804 is named 'Carpe Diem'? - Does that mean another lawyer has joined the Ministas.?

#81 Open Sailing

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 03:13 PM



Looks great Jerome!!!


Thanks Chris! Let us know when you want yours put in production! ;-) Pogo 2 Hull # 3 (or shall I say, hull # 114) is spoken for...more information coming soon!



Good news Jerome, I hope your 3rd P2 will stay on the Left coast.

804 is named 'Carpe Diem'? - Does that mean another lawyer has joined the Ministas.?


Sorry Adrian for the late response. No. Carpe Diem is not a lawyer...far from it!
USA 806, our Pogo 2 is almost ready...finally. Keel is fitted, rudders are on, deck hardware installed...and we decided to spend some extra time in painting the stainless in black (pulpits, stanchions, other fittings) and the spars in red (with a touch of red on the side profile of the main track and connection bar b/w the tillers)....takes lots of sanding, taping and primer of course, before we can paint. More photos soon...We should be have USA 806 in the water in a week or two...

Finally we can start racing and finally we can take sailors out on demo rides!

Cheers

Jerome

#82 hermitCrab

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:56 PM

Finally we can start racing and finally we can take sailors out on demo rides!


Jerome, what's the story with the Ship Rock race?
http://www.pssala.com/races/2011/Dan%20Byrne/DB1%20Ship%20Rock.pdf
no wind?

#83 Open Sailing

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:55 PM

Well, looking at the results, it was definitely light air.
Lee called me that day. He had a bad start, then started to move well though the fleet until he sailed into a kelp bed. After backing down twice, he gave up getting the kelp out and wasn't going to dive :-)
It's probably not a bad thing. Looks like others DNF as well.

#84 Open Sailing

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 02:59 AM

That's it: USA 806 is in the water...Comments?

Cheers

jerome


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#85 NAMT

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 03:41 AM

That's it: USA 806 is in the water...Comments?

Cheers

jerome


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Congratulations Jerome - she looks to be a mean machine in those colours.
That's a lot of work & big investment to get the P2 built & sailing in the US.

Looking forward to some news on your tuning for the CA racing season.

Does CA PHRF restrict advertising/sponsor's logos?
I added a couple of decals on my boom but am not sure what the NW PHRF rules call for.
Obviously no problems for CMNA races.

#86 Open Sailing

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 02:07 PM

"Team Open Sailing" is the name of our Pogo 2, not a sponsor...;-)



That's it: USA 806 is in the water...Comments?

Cheers

jerome


Attached File  usa806.jpg   589.02K   348 downloads




Congratulations Jerome - she looks to be a mean machine in those colours.
That's a lot of work & big investment to get the P2 built & sailing in the US.

Looking forward to some news on your tuning for the CA racing season.

Does CA PHRF restrict advertising/sponsor's logos?
I added a couple of decals on my boom but am not sure what the NW PHRF rules call for.
Obviously no problems for CMNA races.



#87 PocketRocket

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 02:24 PM

That's it: USA 806 is in the water...Comments?

Cheers

jerome


Attached File  usa806.jpg   589.02K   348 downloads


Looks great! Congrats! Have you been sailing yet?

#88 dinghydock

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 06:34 PM

Nice touch on the red traveler! Boat looks great!



#89 ctutmark

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 02:52 AM

No windows?

#90 Koh Samia

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 05:12 AM

Interesting, as 804 had them...

#91 pierke

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 06:33 AM

It must be the economy :unsure:

#92 Total Slacker

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 08:21 PM

Will 806 make the PSSA Bishop Rock race? Carpe Diem indicated he would make it. Koh Samia coming up?

#93 Koh Samia

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 12:05 AM

Koh Samia is coming north, but it's still a secret... ;-)

Seriously, I've said so many times that I'm racing and I've never been able to make it to the start, that I don't want to say it again until, at least, the boat is up there...

In any case the plan is to sail north the weekend before the race so I can attend PSSA's meeting and the skippers meeting. Of course I'll need to go trough boat inspection...

#94 Open Sailing

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 02:47 AM

Nice touch on the red traveler! Boat looks great!


Thanks! Since you were the 1st one to notice, you get a free ride!

#95 Open Sailing

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 02:53 AM

No windows?


Windows on the P2 are supplied by Goiot. The US distributor didn't carry them in stock and Goiot France was also out of stock. Delivery end of February. :-( we thought about different ones, but although they could be cheaper than the Goiot, we want to keep the exact same look than the French P2. Besides, the Goiot fit the boat really well.

#96 Open Sailing

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 02:58 AM

Will 806 make the PSSA Bishop Rock race? Carpe Diem indicated he would make it. Koh Samia coming up?


It's not guaranteed that we will do the bishop race on 806. We have quite a few people who waited until now to test sail the boat. We need to take them out and hopefully build more boats. Still that race is on our calendar, so hopefully, we will have time to prep the boat and practice a little in between test sails. Keep your fingers crossed.

#97 Open Sailing

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:02 AM

Koh Samia is coming north, but it's a secret


Santi

As offered before, you are welcome to stay in our slip in MdR before the race. If that's something you plan on doing, be kind to give us some notice.

Cheers

Jerome

#98 Koh Samia

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Posted 31 January 2011 - 03:53 AM


Koh Samia is coming north, but it's a secret


Santi

As offered before, you are welcome to stay in our slip in MdR before the race. If that's something you plan on doing, be kind to give us some notice.

Cheers

Jerome


I'll definitely do it!


I was waiting to see how some 'improvements' work out (always something to do!). I hope she'll be ready in a week or so. I'll confirm about 2 weeks before the race if that's ok...

#99 Ultraman

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:42 AM

Cool video of a Pogo 2 I just found on Vimeo...



#100 Colibri

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 02:06 PM

Best video I've ever seen made for a Mini




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