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#1 ejf3

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 01:09 PM

Just recently the engine door is not closing without a lot of cursing and several attempts. Is there something I can do to fix or at least make the closing process easier. The boat was new when I bought it, so the door has been used maybe 10-20 times.

#2 Fishwater

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:02 PM

Without looking at it I can't tell you, but I'm sure some other people will have some answers. One thing we do on our boat is have a "dedicated" engine/door person. That way they are used to the nuances. When someone new try's to operate our door or put the engine down, they usually get something jammed and start cussing. If you are having to muscle the door, then something isn't right. I don't force our door down. I gently push it down. If it won't go, I pull it back up and gently push it down again. Sometimes it takes a few tries.

#3 doooouglus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:02 PM

Just recently the engine door is not closing without a lot of cursing and several attempts. Is there something I can do to fix or at least make the closing process easier. The boat was new when I bought it, so the door has been used maybe 10-20 times.



I'm in the same boat (no pun intended). A week ago we did not get the door closed until about 3 minutes until the start... and this was after 5+ minutes of trying. It has always been a little touchy... but recently seems to be a lot worse.

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Doug

#4 doooouglus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:05 PM

Without looking at it I can't tell you, but I'm sure some other people will have some answers. One thing we do on our boat is have a "dedicated" engine/door person. That way they are used to the nuances. When someone new try's to operate our door or put the engine down, they usually get something jammed and start cussing. If you are having to muscle the door, then something isn't right. I don't force our door down. I gently push it down. If it won't go, I pull it back up and gently push it down again. Sometimes it takes a few tries.



We do the same thing...one person is responsible for closing the door. However, recently... he's lost his "magic touch." I don't think that it is anything that he is doing differnt... just something going on with the door. It is out of the water now and I'm going to crawl under and play with it a bit before I put it back in. Maybe can get an idea of what the hang up is.

Doug

#5 StayinStrewn

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:07 PM

lots of McLube or WD 40....don't use ANY rum...I know you ATL boys have plenty of it, but the sugar will crystallize and foul up the tracks even more!

#6 Fishwater

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 02:08 PM

I would imagine you guys are having the problem of the door coming out of the track. That only happens when you force it down. Once it gets out of the track, the pins bind inside the engine well and it is a pain to get it back in the track. Get a dedicated door person and have them raise and lower it at the dock a few times. The door is like your wife/girlfriend - they like it nice and slow.

#7 Ship o' Fools

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:32 PM

I would imagine you guys are having the problem of the door coming out of the track. That only happens when you force it down. Once it gets out of the track, the pins bind inside the engine well and it is a pain to get it back in the track. Get a dedicated door person and have them raise and lower it at the dock a few times. The door is like your wife/girlfriend - they like it nice and slow.


Some times you need to get a new wife/girlfriend.

We had some problems with the door and, as a result of someone misstakenly cutting the track rod (don't ask), we had a larger diameter track rod welded to the brackets on the door. The larger diameter rod seems to work better. However, people trying to lower the door for the first time still have problems. The tricks we use are: (1) it works best if the boat is not moving. Water flow on/across the door when the door extending below the bottom of the boat during the closing operation puts big forces on the door and causes the door to twist in the track. (2) Only loosen the retaining nut for the push bar so the force of the push bar is straight down. There are times when we loosen the retaining nut and the door closes by itself. (3) Sometimes it helps using a boat hook to push gently on the starboard edge of the door helps if the door gets stuck. (4) Forcing the door never works. (5) Never wait until minutes before the start of the race to close the door. If you close the door 15 minutes or more before the race, you are virtually guaranteed the door will work perfectly. If you wait until just 5 minutes before the race then you are going to have problems - which is probably due to the fact that the boat is likely still moving through the water when you try to close the door and are rushing trying to close the door. (6) As said before, have a dedicated door person.

#8 miltwempley

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:49 PM

We find that it works best to raise the motor extra high when closing the door to make sure the door isn't getting hung up on the prop or skeg. Once the door is closed, ease the motor back down so the motor compartment lid will shut. All the advice above is good. Don't force it. Mine is hull 23 and I've never had any real issue with the door.

#9 PHM

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 03:53 PM

+1 to all of the above. On my boat, the door opens and closes easily in the slip--the difficulties happen out of the slip. I therefore concluded that the misalignment happens when the boat heals or rocks in waves. That's why one has to gently try it up and down several times--the door and boat have to be in the right orientation. Once I understood this and was confident that I could always get the door up and down (after several trys), things got to be a lot easier.

#10 doooouglus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:04 PM

lots of McLube or WD 40....don't use ANY rum...I know you ATL boys have plenty of it, but the sugar will crystallize and foul up the tracks even more!


Are you kidding me?! You know my crew... so you KNOW there is no rum being used on the door... unless it is recycled... which... come to think of it... I really wish that I had not mentioned 'cause that is just wrong... Posted Image

Doug

#11 doooouglus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:08 PM

We had some problems with the door and, as a result of someone misstakenly cutting the track rod (don't ask), we had a larger diameter track rod welded to the brackets on the door. The larger diameter rod seems to work better. However, people trying to lower the door for the first time still have problems. The tricks we use are: (1) it works best if the boat is not moving. Water flow on/across the door when the door extending below the bottom of the boat during the closing operation puts big forces on the door and causes the door to twist in the track. (2) Only loosen the retaining nut for the push bar so the force of the push bar is straight down. There are times when we loosen the retaining nut and the door closes by itself. (3) Sometimes it helps using a boat hook to push gently on the starboard edge of the door helps if the door gets stuck. (4) Forcing the door never works. (5) Never wait until minutes before the start of the race to close the door. If you close the door 15 minutes or more before the race, you are virtually guaranteed the door will work perfectly. If you wait until just 5 minutes before the race then you are going to have problems - which is probably due to the fact that the boat is likely still moving through the water when you try to close the door and are rushing trying to close the door. (6) As said before, have a dedicated door person.



Man... thanks for all of the info! It has started getting stuck at the dock too (we always close it before we leave for the day)... so there may be some other issue going on. Once resolved... your #1-6 will go into our "boat rule book."

Thanks for all of the help!

Doug

#12 StayinStrewn

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:18 PM


lots of McLube or WD 40....don't use ANY rum...I know you ATL boys have plenty of it, but the sugar will crystallize and foul up the tracks even more!


Are you kidding me?! You know my crew... so you KNOW there is no rum being used on the door... unless it is recycled... which... come to think of it... I really wish that I had not mentioned 'cause that is just wrong... Posted Image

Doug



yea Matt and I NEVER waste any rum...ask him about our run from MI to Stonington in the 13' whaler w/ full Mt Gay and Tonics...good times in the Fisher's Island Sound chop!!

don't want to hear about anybody recycling their rumPosted Image

#13 doooouglus

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 06:25 PM

[

yea Matt and I NEVER waste any rum...ask him about our run from MI to Stonington in the 13' whaler w/ full Mt Gay and Tonics...good times in the Fisher's Island Sound chop!!

don't want to hear about anybody recycling their rumPosted Image



I just got a visual of you guys bouncing across the chop with sissy sticks in your "Red Cups", probably getting a nose jam about every third wave ... there is just something awkwardly wrong with that visual...Posted Image

Doug

#14 movable ballast

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Posted 14 May 2010 - 07:46 PM

Our door on #62 jambs from time to time. When closing the door at sea make sure you are either stopped or moving very slow. The door pins come out of the track VERY easily (primarily the rear pin). They can be put back in place with a good bash on the back of the door with you kelp stick. we also have a designated door opener / closer (me). Also check the fastners on the stainless strap to door attachment if they are loose or corroded (it happens) the door will not move in the correct plane and jamb.

#15 ejf3

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 01:29 AM

Thanks for all your suggestions. I really appreciate it. I guess this is one of the many benefits of one design.

#16 TigerinCT

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:50 AM

I put winch grease (waterproof) in the door track each spring before launching - a little lubrication goes a long way. Mclube and wd40 stuff is way too light to actually stick in there for more than 1 hour.

#17 Non member

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 02:52 AM

I have scant experience with this boat and the door, but I have wondered if hull flex due to pressure on the keel might be contributing to problems such as those mentioned above of difficulty operating the door while underway.

#18 Ship o' Fools

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 04:45 AM

I have scant experience with this boat and the door, but I have wondered if hull flex due to pressure on the keel might be contributing to problems such as those mentioned above of difficulty operating the door while underway.

Ummmmm, no.

It is really simple. When the door is openned or closed, a portion of the door swings below the bottom of the boat and into the flow of water. As has been explained above, twisting or forcing the door causes it to either bind up in the track or jump the track.

#19 kelly

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 11:26 AM

Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.

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#20 Trevor B

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 03:32 AM

Did it slow the boat down much under power?

#21 kelly

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 11:22 AM

As I said earlier... sea trials this weekend... but Melbourne experience is no difference in forward speed but slight difference in backwards which may have been caused by smaller side vents then we have implemented for FT666. Will let you know after the weekend.

Its not such an issue with speed going backwards, what you want is torque , and control.

Next week.

#22 Kapt'n Kirk

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 04:33 PM

Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


This idea looks very interesting. My questions are: Does it take any wiggling to get the door perfectly flush, ie. aligned with the whole in the bottom? secondly Have you thought about even less suface area on the vertical elements of the "cage"? What about two, three thin stuts to run vertically to the angled attachment to the drive unit? Less lateral resistance is key as long as there is integrity if the unit itself. Again, I think you are really on to something here.

#23 CazzaRanda

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Posted 19 May 2010 - 05:29 PM

I think someone reported some time back that when motoring during an ensenada delivery they experienced an average 1/2 knot difference, between the garage door and the cassette system provided by the builder on newer hulls. Kelly's proto seems less beefy than the manufacturer's, the difference in performances might be even less.

Cazza

Did it slow the boat down much under power?



#24 kelly

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:57 AM


Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


This idea looks very interesting. My questions are: Does it take any wiggling to get the door perfectly flush, ie. aligned with the whole in the bottom? secondly Have you thought about even less suface area on the vertical elements of the "cage"? What about two, three thin stuts to run vertically to the angled attachment to the drive unit? Less lateral resistance is key as long as there is integrity if the unit itself. Again, I think you are really on to something here.


No issue with aligning the door into the hull, once you get it aligned initially its just a matter of lifting the motor until it stops and you have a flush door . We have been doing the installation without pulling the boat out of the water, Bryce has improved his underwater fitting skills. Getting a bit cold now so going for better wet suite. We even used the bolts that hold the existing stainless rod to bolt onto the new box. Bye the way the box was designed and built by Robert Hick of Hick Marine the builders of the very fast Hick Lizard Super 30 sports yacht from Melbourne. The box also attaches to the Motor Fin using a couple of Aluminum Angles to provide rigidity while motoring. There are more detailed photos of the Melbourne Solution , which was fitted on dry land, if anyone wants to see them let me know.

#25 kelly

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 10:59 AM

I think someone reported some time back that when motoring during an ensenada delivery they experienced an average 1/2 knot difference, between the garage door and the cassette system provided by the builder on newer hulls. Kelly's proto seems less beefy than the manufacturer's, the difference in performances might be even less.

Cazza


Did it slow the boat down much under power?



#26 kelly

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 11:06 AM

As mentioned earlier... the guys in Melbourne report no difference in forward speed but some degredation of reverse speed. ... Also its not my design, it was designed by our first Melbourne FT10 owner who as to sail on really choopy water in Port Philip Bay so soon got Jack of trying to close the door in such difficult conditions.

Bryce and I just reckon that its the obvious solution after fighting with the barn door for too long on FT66 in Sydney.

Will report on final sea trials after this weekend .

Not sure if its One Design Legal but in this case I say , WTF....

#27 ejf3

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 05:01 PM



Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


This idea looks very interesting. My questions are: Does it take any wiggling to get the door perfectly flush, ie. aligned with the whole in the bottom? secondly Have you thought about even less suface area on the vertical elements of the "cage"? What about two, three thin stuts to run vertically to the angled attachment to the drive unit? Less lateral resistance is key as long as there is integrity if the unit itself. Again, I think you are really on to something here.


No issue with aligning the door into the hull, once you get it aligned initially its just a matter of lifting the motor until it stops and you have a flush door . We have been doing the installation without pulling the boat out of the water, Bryce has improved his underwater fitting skills. Getting a bit cold now so going for better wet suite. We even used the bolts that hold the existing stainless rod to bolt onto the new box. Bye the way the box was designed and built by Robert Hick of Hick Marine the builders of the very fast Hick Lizard Super 30 sports yacht from Melbourne. The box also attaches to the Motor Fin using a couple of Aluminum Angles to provide rigidity while motoring. There are more detailed photos of the Melbourne Solution , which was fitted on dry land, if anyone wants to see them let me know.



I would like to see them. This approach seems to make a lot of sense to me. The simpler the better.

#28 kelly

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 11:00 PM




Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


This idea looks very interesting. My questions are: Does it take any wiggling to get the door perfectly flush, ie. aligned with the whole in the bottom? secondly Have you thought about even less suface area on the vertical elements of the "cage"? What about two, three thin stuts to run vertically to the angled attachment to the drive unit? Less lateral resistance is key as long as there is integrity if the unit itself. Again, I think you are really on to something here.


No issue with aligning the door into the hull, once you get it aligned initially its just a matter of lifting the motor until it stops and you have a flush door . We have been doing the installation without pulling the boat out of the water, Bryce has improved his underwater fitting skills. Getting a bit cold now so going for better wet suite. We even used the bolts that hold the existing stainless rod to bolt onto the new box. Bye the way the box was designed and built by Robert Hick of Hick Marine the builders of the very fast Hick Lizard Super 30 sports yacht from Melbourne. The box also attaches to the Motor Fin using a couple of Aluminum Angles to provide rigidity while motoring. There are more detailed photos of the Melbourne Solution , which was fitted on dry land, if anyone wants to see them let me know.



I would like to see them. This approach seems to make a lot of sense to me. The simpler the better.


I hope that these help.... Would not be a problem to order one of these boxes from Hick Marine but shipping OS could be an issue. Robert Hick has made up a mandrel to allow him to form them up. They come un finished ie. No holes in side no bolt holes etc just a nice box ready for you to play with. Took a fair bit of time to to get it right.

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#29 Snapper

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 01:23 AM

Looks good, Kelly. Have you guys thought of a way to add a gasket to seal it completely and pump out once up?

#30 Jason AUS

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 02:27 AM

Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


We believe that these doors, here on the bow and again on the stern, enclose a unique propulsion system... A magneto-hydrodynamic drive, or caterpillar, that would enable the sub Tiger to run virtually silent.

It is also possible that this drive system, if operable, could render the Red October Balmain Tiger undetectable to our SOSUS warning nets in the Atlantic.

:lol:

#31 kelly

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:36 AM


Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


We believe that these doors, here on the bow and again on the stern, enclose a unique propulsion system... A magneto-hydrodynamic drive, or caterpillar, that would enable the sub Tiger to run virtually silent.

It is also possible that this drive system, if operable, could render the Red October Balmain Tiger undetectable to our SOSUS warning nets in the Atlantic.

:lol:


Another "Long Lunch" Jas....

#32 kelly

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:39 AM

Looks good, Kelly. Have you guys thought of a way to add a gasket to seal it completely and pump out once up?


Snapper... I will be more than happy to be able to open and close the door without all the previous hassels... sealing it is possible but a long way down the list of priorities.

#33 ejf3

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 09:00 PM





Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


This idea looks very interesting. My questions are: Does it take any wiggling to get the door perfectly flush, ie. aligned with the whole in the bottom? secondly Have you thought about even less suface area on the vertical elements of the "cage"? What about two, three thin stuts to run vertically to the angled attachment to the drive unit? Less lateral resistance is key as long as there is integrity if the unit itself. Again, I think you are really on to something here.


No issue with aligning the door into the hull, once you get it aligned initially its just a matter of lifting the motor until it stops and you have a flush door . We have been doing the installation without pulling the boat out of the water, Bryce has improved his underwater fitting skills. Getting a bit cold now so going for better wet suite. We even used the bolts that hold the existing stainless rod to bolt onto the new box. Bye the way the box was designed and built by Robert Hick of Hick Marine the builders of the very fast Hick Lizard Super 30 sports yacht from Melbourne. The box also attaches to the Motor Fin using a couple of Aluminum Angles to provide rigidity while motoring. There are more detailed photos of the Melbourne Solution , which was fitted on dry land, if anyone wants to see them let me know.



I would like to see them. This approach seems to make a lot of sense to me. The simpler the better.


I hope that these help.... Would not be a problem to order one of these boxes from Hick Marine but shipping OS could be an issue. Robert Hick has made up a mandrel to allow him to form them up. They come un finished ie. No holes in side no bolt holes etc just a nice box ready for you to play with. Took a fair bit of time to to get it right.




Thank you. I agree the cost to ship is probably prohibitive. I am going to look around and see what I can get built over here.

#34 CazzaRanda

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 10:19 PM

some of the early hulls here have built a better garage doors with a couple of of starboard sheets (~100 bucks) and new hinges (~1hr of a welding shop). Given that the door now slides on 4 points, rather than two, jamming doesn't seem to happen any more. PM me if you want more pics and drawings.

One of the small disadvantages of attaching the box to the engine, is that you cannot raise the motor all the way up to get it completely off the water when the boat is at the dock (many have extend the rails a few inches to do so).

Cazza


[


Thank you. I agree the cost to ship is probably prohibitive. I am going to look around and see what I can get built over here.

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#35 Ship o' Fools

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:19 PM

Kelly's solution seems interesting. However, after working with the door a couple of years now, we seem to have it working just fine and barring some unforeseen event, the door should work just fine going forward.

The problem I see with Kelly's solution is how do you get the motor out if it needs servicing? I have been stuck at the dock at Long Beach because of motor issues and had to take the motor out since a mechanic would not come to the boat for another week and the first day of LBRW was the next day.

#36 TigerinCT

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:08 PM

Kelly's solution seems interesting. However, after working with the door a couple of years now, we seem to have it working just fine and barring some unforeseen event, the door should work just fine going forward.

The problem I see with Kelly's solution is how do you get the motor out if it needs servicing? I have been stuck at the dock at Long Beach because of motor issues and had to take the motor out since a mechanic would not come to the boat for another week and the first day of LBRW was the next day.


+1 on keeping engine removal flexibility... I've had too many lost days due to the engine needing work - locking it to the door would make things more complicated for me.

#37 kelly

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:45 AM


Kelly's solution seems interesting. However, after working with the door a couple of years now, we seem to have it working just fine and barring some unforeseen event, the door should work just fine going forward.

The problem I see with Kelly's solution is how do you get the motor out if it needs servicing? I have been stuck at the dock at Long Beach because of motor issues and had to take the motor out since a mechanic would not come to the boat for another week and the first day of LBRW was the next day.


+1 on keeping engine removal flexibility... I've had too many lost days due to the engine needing work - locking it to the door would make things more complicated for me.


Bryce and I fitted the new door arrangement box without taking the boat out of the water. We used our boat cleaning "deck snorkle " ( Hooker System ). We did a test fit one weekend and a final fit the next. Each took about 30 mins in the water. I think that we could remove it in less than 15 mins , its only four bolts holding on to the Engine Cav Plate and one bolt holding onto the Engine Fin. The Four bolts can be loosened from above the water through the engine bay. We used a tube spanner but a socket with an extension would make it even easier.

And now for the good news. We went out for a race yesterday, there was no wind so race abandoned but a great opportunity to test out the new box. Definetly a little slower in coming up to speed, but got to 6.1 knots without screwing the neck off the motor. ( 9.7 Tohatsu 2 Stroke ). Motor and boat felt very smooth under way, in fact smoother than without the box. Possibly as a result of the flow across the prop with the box. ( Certainly fans are smoother and more efficient within a housing. ) Did not do extensive tests in reverse but for the small amount of reversing that I did do it did not seem any different to before the box. So all good , and just a little aside...
With no wind on the start line we drifted over the line in the tide. One of the crew said " Why not start the motor and drive back" , in the past I would not have considered it, given all the hassle, to open the door, lower the motor, etc etc. Anyway I almost did drop it and start the motor as it would have been so simple, when a small puff lifted us back across the line in time for our " Timed Start, in what was supposed to be a persuit race ". Hoefully the beginning of hassle free motor handling on FT66. Now for hassle free Kite Handling.

#38 ejf3

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 07:39 PM

It sounds as though you have resolved the issue. Thanks for the update. I visited Hicks website, but did not see anything discussing his "box".



#39 akasideshow

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:32 AM

looks good

any idea of the cost?
or the weight?

our door is getting past its use by date
when we slipped tigger a couple of weeks ago i noticed
the door had started to bubble on the underside
so we we're thinking of making something to fit out of pine or ply using the existing arm and pins
this however looks like a much neater option and an easy way to eliminate the problem of getting the door flush

as for having issues with moving the door up and down, check for movement in the bolts that go into the side of your engine well. The ones the guide and lock the arm in place. the glass around ours was getting soft and had to be fixed, now we leave the bolts done up tight so its a very controlled guide and it works fine every time. In fact much better than it ever did




#40 CazzaRanda

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:26 AM

I've got a few PMs asking for more details on the garage door replacement. Here are some info, pics and files.

You'll need to sheets of starboard, a marine grade polymer, the following sizes:

12"x27"x3/4" (used to build the sides on which the door slides)
12"L x 27"W x 1/4" (to build the actual door)

The approximate size of the door (check your hull) is 10 5/8" x 15 1/4".

A welding shop should build the 4 hinges that will form the joint between the door and the sides, and you can reuse the existing handle mechanism).

Here is a 3D model for google sketchupl, but measures are approximates (you'll need to install google sketchup to see the model).

A few pics should help. Let me know if you have more questions.

Cazza

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#41 CazzaRanda

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:28 AM

more pics...

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#42 CazzaRanda

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:32 AM

more...

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#43 CazzaRanda

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:35 AM

the side panels are bolted and 5200 in place. Note also how the central/after "pin" in the picture is cutted to make room for the propellor.

#44 CazzaRanda

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 12:42 AM

a few more pics to show the door in place:

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#45 doooouglus

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 08:11 PM

Just a follow up...

The aft pin (fiberglass one that is formed into the box) was slipping out of the track when it was going down. Thanks for all of the advise... it now slides down easily when you put a little pressure on the slider bar. This helps keep the pin in the track.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Have a great weekend guys!

Doug

#46 kelly

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:36 AM

looks good

any idea of the cost?
or the weight?

our door is getting past its use by date
when we slipped tigger a couple of weeks ago i noticed
the door had started to bubble on the underside
so we we're thinking of making something to fit out of pine or ply using the existing arm and pins
this however looks like a much neater option and an easy way to eliminate the problem of getting the door flush

as for having issues with moving the door up and down, check for movement in the bolts that go into the side of your engine well. The ones the guide and lock the arm in place. the glass around ours was getting soft and had to be fixed, now we leave the bolts done up tight so its a very controlled guide and it works fine every time. In fact much better than it ever did


Weight is about the same as the old sytem, ie. Box is about the weight of the old SS activation arm and pivot bar both of which you remove.
As for costs,, better you speak to Robert Hick at Hick Marine in Melbourne.
Irrespective of what the Box costs , the real costs will be in fitting it . I suspect that we spent 20 hours fitting the box , on top of that you will need to allow for pulling the boat out of the water, which I would recommend as the best solution although we did FT66 in the water.

#47 kelly

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 03:42 AM

It sounds as though you have resolved the issue. Thanks for the update. I visited Hicks website, but did not see anything discussing his "box".


This is probably not Robert Hick's biggest selling item so not supprised nothing on his web site. Our purchase was only his third. The other two were in Melbourne where Hick Marine resides and so Robert would have done the whole job for those guys, by the time we finished FT66 we were beginning to wish Robert had done the whole job for us.

#48 adrian east sydney

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 05:28 AM

Great job!

Anything to take the hassle out of using the door. When it works, it is great. When it gets stuck I hope for some easy solution. This may be it, apart from removal of motor.

What about electrolysis?

Where is this cyclone weather warning for Sunday? BoM currently "Sunday: Wind: West to southwesterly around 10 knots, turning east to southeast 15 to 25 knots in the afternoon, possibly increasing to 25 to 35 knots."

Adrian
East Sydney

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#49 Chuck.R

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:30 PM

Thanks for posting all the pics Cazza.

#50 IANLOD

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:47 AM

Guys,

The Melbourne solution
The cowling guides the motor up into the engine well so the door always closes perfectly seated

Once you have had this fitted you will be cursing yourself to why you put up with the OEM supplied product for so long.

It is nearly as easy as pushing the button on an electric tilt outboard.

#51 IANLOD

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 05:32 AM

Re electrolysis

Have fitted a hull anode to the door and wired it to one of the skeg bolts but thinking about it now it could have been fitted to the inside of the door to reduce drag.
This saves checking on motor skeg anode as mine were being eaten out every 4 months Attached File  P6250012.JPG   782.8K   70 downloadsor so.

#52 doooouglus

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:03 PM





Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.


This idea looks very interesting. My questions are: Does it take any wiggling to get the door perfectly flush, ie. aligned with the whole in the bottom? secondly Have you thought about even less suface area on the vertical elements of the "cage"? What about two, three thin stuts to run vertically to the angled attachment to the drive unit? Less lateral resistance is key as long as there is integrity if the unit itself. Again, I think you are really on to something here.


No issue with aligning the door into the hull, once you get it aligned initially its just a matter of lifting the motor until it stops and you have a flush door . We have been doing the installation without pulling the boat out of the water, Bryce has improved his underwater fitting skills. Getting a bit cold now so going for better wet suite. We even used the bolts that hold the existing stainless rod to bolt onto the new box. Bye the way the box was designed and built by Robert Hick of Hick Marine the builders of the very fast Hick Lizard Super 30 sports yacht from Melbourne. The box also attaches to the Motor Fin using a couple of Aluminum Angles to provide rigidity while motoring. There are more detailed photos of the Melbourne Solution , which was fitted on dry land, if anyone wants to see them let me know.



I would like to see them. This approach seems to make a lot of sense to me. The simpler the better.


I hope that these help.... Would not be a problem to order one of these boxes from Hick Marine but shipping OS could be an issue. Robert Hick has made up a mandrel to allow him to form them up. They come un finished ie. No holes in side no bolt holes etc just a nice box ready for you to play with. Took a fair bit of time to to get it right.


Kelly:

I need your HELP!

Our door has died a miserable death. At the ECC's we were really worried that we would not be able to get it closed. Then worried at the end to get it open again. We sailed in and out during the whole regatta just to keep the door in place.

Your fix looks great!!! Can you send me the dimensions on the plate, size of bolts, etc. We've got to get this fix done in the next two weeks before our next regatta.

Thanks!

Doug

#53 kelly

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:35 AM

Doug I am sitting on my cruising boat in an out of the way bay in Sydney's middle Harbour but will Di my best to help. If you review the earlier posts from Ian lord and myself you will see from the photos that the solution is to add a box around Ted prop bolted to the motors cav plate and skeg. This box has a flat bottom approx the size of the engine well. The engine well door is bolted to this flat bottom of the box . We had the box made in Melbourne by Robert hick of hick marine , Robert has a mandrel to.form up the box. It took 3 months to source box and fit so I think you would struggle to have it done in a few weeks.

#54 doooouglus

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:55 PM

Doug I am sitting on my cruising boat in an out of the way bay in Sydney's middle Harbour but will Di my best to help. If you review the earlier posts from Ian lord and myself you will see from the photos that the solution is to add a box around Ted prop bolted to the motors cav plate and skeg. This box has a flat bottom approx the size of the engine well. The engine well door is bolted to this flat bottom of the box . We had the box made in Melbourne by Robert hick of hick marine , Robert has a mandrel to.form up the box. It took 3 months to source box and fit so I think you would struggle to have it done in a few weeks.


Thanks Kelly!

We'll use the pictures and try our best to get everything that we need from that.

Our door track is basically destroyed. We could try to build it back up ... but feel that we'd be looking at the same old prob all over again.

Thanks again for your input!

Doug

#55 Public John

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 02:06 AM

Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.



Hi,

Why is there holes on the side plates?

#56 kelly

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 03:34 AM


Yes to all of the above for FT66 , well we have not been late for a start but we have gone close. The first FT in Melbourne is owned by a retired Engineer who decided that the existing door system was crap as acknowledged by the builders who introduced the Cassette System at around FT80 , which bye the way has worked without any complaints.
Check out the photo below and you will get the idea of a solution that has worked very well now for the two Melbourne Boats on Port Philip Bay. We have now bolted this solution onto FT66 and will report on sea trials after some final adjustments this coming weekend. How we look forward to just dropping and raising the motor without the heart in mouth , will it or will it not close.



Hi,

Why is there holes on the side plates?


Well for one thing the holes in the side plates make it really easy to put the bolt in and out which attaches the Box to the Engine Skeg.. but I suspect that is not the real reason. You might want to ask Bob Perry if he designed the retrofit Engine Cassette in the later Tigers because this has quite large cut outs in the side. I suspect it is to do with venting to prevent cavitation.

#57 Bryce

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 04:40 AM

If for no other reason, holes in the side of the box make it easier to see and clean the water cooling intake. Oh and reduce weight...

#58 mcg00

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:48 PM

Have the sea trials ended? Was the door a success?

#59 kelly

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:44 AM

Have the sea trials ended? Was the door a success?


Sea trials ended two years ago... works a treat, everyone should have one. If you are interested just go back and read through this thread.




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