484 replies to this topic

[GybeSet®]

100 kg upward of the lightship or "designers best" weight is pretty normal, actually its probably the light side if anything

SMS rated weight is the Rigged weight, ropes rudders mast booms sails in addition to an expected 56 kg for YA safety equipment, fluids and motor

the measured figures are normal and in the ballpark, and expected

rated figure is a reality thing, not seen in the brochure

(maybe like car fuel consumption figures i see, 6cyl large car Syd to Melb on less than one tank of fuel ?)

[Magilla Gorilla]

100 kg upward of the lightship or "designers best" weight is pretty normal, actually its probably the light side if anything

SMS rated weight is the Rigged weight, ropes rudders mast booms sails in addition to an expected 56 kg for YA safety equipment, fluids and motor

the measured figures are normal and in the ballpark, and expected

rated figure is a reality thing, not seen in the brochure

(maybe like car fuel consumption figures i see, 6cyl large car Syd to Melb on less than one tank of fuel ?)

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

56kg for a 3.5 hp outboard, fuel tank and safety gear - OK.... I hope the other 44kg isn't in the boat. Thats 15% over class minimum.

Don't know many people would like to carry the equivalent of 2 bags of concrete around if they didn't have to....

[GybeSet®]

the other 44 ?

mast boom sheets rigging fittings rudder

as specified http://www.clubmarin...ps/22141/41822/

[Magilla Gorilla]

You may want to read the Shaw 650 class rules. They're all measured under the overall minimum weight of the boat of 295kg.

The only real net difference is outboard, fuel tank & safety gear. You're still looking for equivalent of 2 bags of concrete.

Hopefully it isn't moulded into the boat.

[GybeSet®]

all more bullshit, smoke and mirrors

the rated weight includes the rig-rigging-sheets-controls as well, the 'low' figures
you are quoting DO NOT

"They're all" ? ? there has been one delivered other than the first boat out of the mould


295 will not be the OD weight of the Shaw, and is no where near the SMS 'rated' weight

it will be close to (or actually) the weight of the first delivered boat, see s'magninos post

with the measured system ... guessing or optimistic or bare-boat ideal designers weights are no longer a reality in Aus Sportsboats

unlike your TY (& RL-24 ?) class legacy and guesswork system

[Magilla Gorilla]

295 will not be the OD weight of the Shaw, and has no correlation to the 'rated' weight

First of all Sherlock, it took less than a minute to find the proposed Shaw 650 class rules. My guess is the stakeholders in the class had quite a bit to do with writing them, so why would they insert a figure into these rules that is bullshit? Someone/several people has/have spent a great deal of time writing the rules in the form they are now. The minimum class weight of 295kg is published including hull, keel, (rigged) mast, (rigged) boom, (rigged) bowsprit, rudder, plus a 12kg allowance for and I quote:

"The weight above excludes tiller, tiller extensions, sheets, control lines, deckgear, fixed bags, hiking straps, bridle, blocks, and any other items fixed permanently to the boat which shall be included in the total weight and are calculated to weigh approximately 12kg"

So why would you buy a production version of a one-design class (that can still compete in mixed fleet racing) that is over minimum one-design class weight? There's probably only 500+ M24 sailors, at least 600 Etchells sailors, maybe 300 Laser/Dart SB3 sailors and thousands more other one-design sailors will give you a good reason why they wouldn't buy a heavy boat. Ask one of them...

295kg +56 kg for essential safety gear and motor is a direct correlation to what the boat's 'rated' weight should be more like.

You've failed on justifying those 2 bags of concrete so far....

[steveromagnino]

For those interested class rules are being adjusted upwards to reflect the real weights so far of boats built.

There are a few other parts to update for sail areas and so on also.

The rules online now are there as a draft.

Situation normal is the median weight in our to be finalised rules.

From what I understand peow peow is 10kg lighter with an inner carbon skin and thus would be allowed in by exception (as carbon was not allowed in construction, but the boat began construction prior to the draft rules which are in circulation now for comment).

Under sms they will sail to different ratings.

An updated version of the rules is under development and will be unveiled shortly. This will include the correct weights and tolerances as well as iso info compliance.

Hope that makes things clearer.

[Evo]

yep...thanks S. excuse the dopey questions...always a little confusing without being there

[Turkey Slapper]

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

[83TER]

Dont like the class of sport your in Goggs, why dont you take your winghing warfy mate Barman and yourself over to trailersailor world.

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

[Turkey Slapper]

Dont like the class of sport your in Goggs, why dont you take your winghing warfy mate Barman and yourself over to trailersailor world.

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

Nothing wrong with the class of sport!

Just the way its being manipulated!

It suits you but at the moment dosnt it, cause your on the right side of the bias that has been driven by like boat owner/s!

Good luck at the nationals! You wont need it, its in the bag eh! Glad someone thinks its right!

[Barman]

Dont like the class of sport your in Goggs, why dont you take your winghing warfy mate Barman and yourself over to trailersailor world.

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

At least we finish races ;-p

[Frank]

Dont like the class of sport your in Goggs, why dont you take your winghing warfy mate Barman and yourself over to trailersailor world.

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

Nothing wrong with the class of sport!

Just the way its being manipulated!

It suits you but at the moment dosnt it, cause your on the right side of the bias that has been driven by like boat owner/s!

Good luck at the nationals! You wont need it, its in the bag eh! Glad someone thinks its right!

You take shots at the members of the ASBA commitee at any chance you get. Why don't you get involved if you have such big issue's
I can't see how you can say there is any bias. Look athe the results
Geelong M24
Nationals E7
ABRW Stealth 7
Qld states Shaw 650

Nothing too similar between those designs, and considering the only change the rule has has is when it went from AMS to SMS, how can you say someone is driving the rule? It hasn't changed and looking at the results doesn't suit any type of design. 4 different designs won the 4 main regattas. ALso Thompson got 2nd and 3rd in Geelong so they must go alright too.

[HTFU]

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

TS
I think you should really rethink this as I think your form is poor.

You have just accussed your fellow owners/competitors of cheating by not presenting their boats in the correct condition for measurement.

You have also accussed the volunteer measurers and in this case the ASBA President and myself of being liars/cheats (considering he measured SN' s sails in NZ in July - please check the sails for his sig if you like). In every other case sails/boats have been measured with independent bodies present when a measurer has a relationship to the boat - I have ensured this from day 1.

You then go on to state that the Tech Committee of ASBA manipulates the SMS system which is solely operated/managed/used etc by a 3rd party in YV. The main reason ASBA uses a 3rd party system is so that this could never happen. I can confirm to you (& you can contact the head of handicapping at YV any time) that ASBA has not manipulated SMS in any way. We work with them and provide data/opinions/ideas. We would love YV to do more work on the system and simplify it etc but it is not skewed to any boat/design/weight/owner at the direction of ASBA or any on the committee.

If you have a drama with an individual, please take it up with them privatly becasue if you piss off the guys that give their time free to get you all measured and organise your events with uniformed/baseless crap, you will have none.

I'm sure many are looking forward to catching up with you at the bar at the Nationals in 2 weeks.

[Teaky]

Don't get too heavy dudes eh.

[Turkey Slapper]

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

TS
I think you should really rethink this as I think your form is poor.

You have just accussed your fellow owners/competitors of cheating by not presenting their boats in the correct condition for measurement.

You have also accussed the volunteer measurers and in this case the ASBA President and myself of being liars/cheats (considering he measured SN' s sails in NZ in July - please check the sails for his sig if you like). In every other case sails/boats have been measured with independent bodies present when a measurer has a relationship to the boat - I have ensured this from day 1.

You then go on to state that the Tech Committee of ASBA manipulates the SMS system which is solely operated/managed/used etc by a 3rd party in YV. The main reason ASBA uses a 3rd party system is so that this could never happen. I can confirm to you (& you can contact the head of handicapping at YV any time) that ASBA has not manipulated SMS in any way. We work with them and provide data/opinions/ideas. We would love YV to do more work on the system and simplify it etc but it is not skewed to any boat/design/weight/owner at the direction of ASBA or any on the committee.

If you have a drama with an individual, please take it up with them privatly becasue if you piss off the guys that give their time free to get you all measured and organise your events with uniformed/baseless crap, you will have none.

I'm sure many are looking forward to catching up with you at the bar at the Nationals in 2 weeks.

Well im as keen as! Bring it!

I havnt mentioned a name yet, but if all think the way things are being done is fair on everyone, well i will take it as seriously as it is at the moment! The day boats were weighed with bunk cusions on board, was mentioned, called a winger! Sweet. it all go now then!

If you think im the only one with concerns you are mistaken, people are still sailing to be in a half decent fleet, all the bullshit aside! Happy to bring everything up again to whoever is interested! And cause i have bought up about how boats still dont comply as well im a whinger! I have mentioned as well of boats with problems and what has been done?

Im happy to race and not get a result either way, dosnt bother me the slightest, have sailed these shitters and there predsesors for on 25 years, we do it for the fun of it, not result driven, but when the playing field is not percieved as right, i thought we could have a say!

Obviously not!

Oh well, heres hopping the fleet gets the numbers of the last nationals held up here!

[HTFU]

The sails where all measured individually.

Really?

No sails, no fuel when a boat is measured for SMS.

Dont bet on it! Some were even allowed to be weighed in the rain and with bunk cushions on!

No internal checks!

Real shake up needed, good idea, going bad!

TS
I think you should really rethink this as I think your form is poor.

You have just accussed your fellow owners/competitors of cheating by not presenting their boats in the correct condition for measurement.

You have also accussed the volunteer measurers and in this case the ASBA President and myself of being liars/cheats (considering he measured SN' s sails in NZ in July - please check the sails for his sig if you like). In every other case sails/boats have been measured with independent bodies present when a measurer has a relationship to the boat - I have ensured this from day 1.

You then go on to state that the Tech Committee of ASBA manipulates the SMS system which is solely operated/managed/used etc by a 3rd party in YV. The main reason ASBA uses a 3rd party system is so that this could never happen. I can confirm to you (& you can contact the head of handicapping at YV any time) that ASBA has not manipulated SMS in any way. We work with them and provide data/opinions/ideas. We would love YV to do more work on the system and simplify it etc but it is not skewed to any boat/design/weight/owner at the direction of ASBA or any on the committee.

If you have a drama with an individual, please take it up with them privatly becasue if you piss off the guys that give their time free to get you all measured and organise your events with uniformed/baseless crap, you will have none.

I'm sure many are looking forward to catching up with you at the bar at the Nationals in 2 weeks.

Well im as keen as! Bring it!

I havnt mentioned a name yet, but if all think the way things are being done is fair on everyone, well i will take it as seriously as it is at the moment! The day boats were weighed with bunk cusions on board, was mentioned, called a winger! Sweet. it all go now then!

If you think im the only one with concerns you are mistaken, people are still sailing to be in a half decent fleet, all the bullshit aside! Happy to bring everything up again to whoever is interested! And cause i have bought up about how boats still dont comply as well im a whinger! I have mentioned as well of boats with problems and what has been done?

Im happy to race and not get a result either way, dosnt bother me the slightest, have sailed these shitters and there predsesors for on 25 years, we do it for the fun of it, not result driven, but when the playing field is not percieved as right, i thought we could have a say!

Obviously not!

Oh well, heres hopping the fleet gets the numbers of the last nationals held up here!

I don't understand most of your reply because to me its not really clear what your issue is. To me you are questioning whether an individual boats sails have been measured and the weights of some boats with bunk cushions on board. I would recommend you put your specific concerns in writing and send it to ASBA on the email or to me & I'll forward it to the President and it can be dicussed at the AGM and can then be addressed. Think all would much rather have your issues sorted and move on for the class's sake rather than open accusations/inuendo. Your a member of ASBA, you have a vote and a say. You choose a strange way of saying whatever it is you are trying to say. Look forward to hearing all about it at the AGM.

[Turkey Slapper]

Here here!

Have gone and "approached" the right people, and Got nowhere so see what happens eh!

You know the issues that are out there!

[Yard Dog]

This thread used to be a pretty good one about the production Shaw 650, but has since devolved into another pissing contest. WTF? You guys have a problem, deal with it privately. I know you appreciate useful information of the type that has been common on this thread. No one likes looking at shit, so get over it.

[Barman]

This thread used to be a pretty good one about the production Shaw 650, but has since devolved into another pissing contest. WTF? You guys have a problem, deal with it privately. I know you appreciate useful information of the type that has been common on this thread. No one likes looking at shit, so get over it.

I'll second that, so how fast was that 650 the other weekend?

[dachopper]

more clips guys.... !!!

what is the speed of the shaw650 comp[arable to downwind???

I noticed peow peow beat the stealth 8 over the line a couple of times.... is the shaw faster downwind?

[GybeSet®]

well that answers your question

should be a 'Yes'

as the longer waterline boat would be stronger (relatively) upwind

the lighter boat would have to cancel that out .... downwind

whatever incredible to beat a 8mtr x 3.5 Arms Racer, virtually the maxi in SB racing

[dachopper]

it would be interesting to see the polar ..... if there is one

[GybeSet®]

elapsed times are the real world, you have them

polars are internet armchair bullshitoptimistic guesswork

[Barman]

Peow was 10-15 boatlengths faster upwind than our E7, downwind they were the fastest 2.5 wide by far, it's hard to judge the elapsed times, the maxi was poorly sailed, or much harder to get around the track fast like the Shaw is. Not quite as fast as the better 3.5's but remember it has only been 1 hitout for the boys, they are still learning the boat and tuning the rig! More speed yet to come for the Nats!

[Barman]

Remeber we beat the Stealth 8 in at least 1 of the races. Still early for comparing results.

If I did not have kids, I would build or buy a shaw tomorrow, cracker boats!!!!!!

[Kestrahl]

Peow was 10-15 boatlengths faster upwind than our E7, downwind they were the fastest 2.5 wide by far, it's hard to judge the elapsed times, the maxi was poorly sailed, or much harder to get around the track fast like the Shaw is. Not quite as fast as the better 3.5's but remember it has only been 1 hitout for the boys, they are still learning the boat and tuning the rig! More speed yet to come for the Nats!

Once you get them sorted upwind they are bloody quick, at the taupo nats acouple of years ago we were the same speed upwind in 20 knots as the beiker 7.8 with guys trapezeing of 3.5m wide racks, while we were hiking and at waikawa using 2 wires we were matching it upwind with a quick young 11 and davidson 40. They seem to like a decent amount of crew weight. Plus the mast rake I think needs to be around 180mm further aft at the masthead than whats on the plans. A tuned up shaw should leave a E7 for dead upwind.

[Barman]

They will be quicker again next week I'm sure, apparently there headsail was a little out in the measurements their handicap will come down closer to the other 1.

[Humungus]

I wouldn't mind having a sail on one of these. Awesome looking boat. The only competition would be the Viper. Given the choice I like the Shaw.

[Rum Monkey]

I wouldn't mind having a sail on one of these. Awesome looking boat. The only competition would be the Viper. Given the choice I like the Shaw.

this thing would lap a viper

[Speng]

Given the solid foredeck does that mean you have to douse and raise the kite the old fashioned way - i.e actually touching it?
boat looks the business though. On the webpage it says the rigging is dyform? I thought it was synthetic?

[steveromagnino]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

[Christian]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

We use a launcher on a 95 sqm kite - just really need to have the timing down

[mahasky]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

We use a launcher on a 95 sqm kite - just really need to have the timing down

Thats a lot of fabric to pull through a hole - what size is the launch tube?

[Kestrahl]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

We use a launcher on a 95 sqm kite - just really need to have the timing down

Thats a lot of fabric to pull through a hole - what size is the launch tube?

Animal Biscuits the shaw 7.5 has one also with a 85? sqm kite. I think its a personal choice, I felt we wouldn't have benefited enough vs the extra weight.

[Christian]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

We use a launcher on a 95 sqm kite - just really need to have the timing down

Thats a lot of fabric to pull through a hole - what size is the launch tube?

about 50-60 centimeters and the bag goes from the foredeck back to the traveler (inside the boat) so about 6-7 meters

it can swallow a small man

[steveromagnino]

You guys might be right but to date not one serious buyer or lead has expressed any great desire for a launcher, the only time it came up was from the former sailor of a sportie with a launcher was to ask that it didn't have a launcher.
I'd say that we could add one if it was asked for as a modification, but it hasn't ever come up.

Seems like the racing in aussie the shaw 650s are going fine without them (currently 1st and 6th). Kestrahl won almost everything without one.

Christian that's a monster hole innit!!

[dachopper]

Peow was 10-15 boatlengths faster upwind than our E7, downwind they were the fastest 2.5 wide by far, it's hard to judge the elapsed times, the maxi was poorly sailed, or much harder to get around the track fast like the Shaw is. Not quite as fast as the better 3.5's but remember it has only been 1 hitout for the boys, they are still learning the boat and tuning the rig! More speed yet to come for the Nats!

Once you get them sorted upwind they are bloody quick, at the taupo nats acouple of years ago we were the same speed upwind in 20 knots as the beiker 7.8 with guys trapezeing of 3.5m wide racks, while we were hiking and at waikawa using 2 wires we were matching it upwind with a quick young 11 and davidson 40. They seem to like a decent amount of crew weight. Plus the mast rake I think needs to be around 180mm further aft at the masthead than whats on the plans. A tuned up shaw should leave a E7 for dead upwind.

Is that to say the same ammount of pre-bend - but just more rake with custom sails?

[Cheesy]

Peow was 10-15 boatlengths faster upwind than our E7, downwind they were the fastest 2.5 wide by far, it's hard to judge the elapsed times, the maxi was poorly sailed, or much harder to get around the track fast like the Shaw is. Not quite as fast as the better 3.5's but remember it has only been 1 hitout for the boys, they are still learning the boat and tuning the rig! More speed yet to come for the Nats!

Once you get them sorted upwind they are bloody quick, at the taupo nats acouple of years ago we were the same speed upwind in 20 knots as the beiker 7.8 with guys trapezeing of 3.5m wide racks, while we were hiking and at waikawa using 2 wires we were matching it upwind with a quick young 11 and davidson 40. They seem to like a decent amount of crew weight. Plus the mast rake I think needs to be around 180mm further aft at the masthead than whats on the plans. A tuned up shaw should leave a E7 for dead upwind.

Is that to say the same ammount of pre-bend - but just more rake with custom sails?

The production sails are based on Kestrahls ones so Im guessing that the pre-bend in the mast is the same. The production boats may even have the increased mast rake already

[Kestrahl]

Peow was 10-15 boatlengths faster upwind than our E7, downwind they were the fastest 2.5 wide by far, it's hard to judge the elapsed times, the maxi was poorly sailed, or much harder to get around the track fast like the Shaw is. Not quite as fast as the better 3.5's but remember it has only been 1 hitout for the boys, they are still learning the boat and tuning the rig! More speed yet to come for the Nats!

Once you get them sorted upwind they are bloody quick, at the taupo nats acouple of years ago we were the same speed upwind in 20 knots as the beiker 7.8 with guys trapezeing of 3.5m wide racks, while we were hiking and at waikawa using 2 wires we were matching it upwind with a quick young 11 and davidson 40. They seem to like a decent amount of crew weight. Plus the mast rake I think needs to be around 180mm further aft at the masthead than whats on the plans. A tuned up shaw should leave a E7 for dead upwind.

Is that to say the same ammount of pre-bend - but just more rake with custom sails?

The production sails were my orginial design files that are being made in asia.
I got the rake data from Manic, Robs own boat which I set Badonkadonk up to. Monkey Business set his up to 3 degree's which is what is on the drawing. The upwind speed/height difference was huge until Matt with monkey discovered badonkadonk's rig was raked alot more than his. The prebend is much like a 12fter with the same tension on the D1's as the caps with as little as possible bend down low while the top has quite alot of tension on the jumpers to stop the tip going forward downwind.

[dachopper]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

We use a launcher on a 95 sqm kite - just really need to have the timing down

Thats a lot of fabric to pull through a hole - what size is the launch tube?

about 50-60 centimeters and the bag goes from the foredeck back to the traveler (inside the boat) so about 6-7 meters

it can swallow a small man

Is that the 750?

Any other pics?

[Christian]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

We use a launcher on a 95 sqm kite - just really need to have the timing down

Thats a lot of fabric to pull through a hole - what size is the launch tube?

about 50-60 centimeters and the bag goes from the foredeck back to the traveler (inside the boat) so about 6-7 meters

it can swallow a small man

Is that the 750?

Any other pics?

Viper 830 - a US built Thommo Design - you can find some pics here: http://s149.photobuc.../chjensen/index

[PropPast]

I've been watching the two boats in Australia.

Seems like they go well in heavy winds. One of them sailed about the same in the lighter conditions, the other didn't.

Earlier in this thread I think sterevo says they go ok in the light; all boats have a not so strong point. So what is this boat's strongest and weakest points in wind? Can you tune some of the weakest point to not be too bad?

Its so light without much ballast its impressive that they go so well when it is windy.

[Kestrahl]

I've been watching the two boats in Australia.

Seems like they go well in heavy winds. One of them sailed about the same in the lighter conditions, the other didn't.

Earlier in this thread I think sterevo says they go ok in the light; all boats have a not so strong point. So what is this boat's strongest and weakest points in wind? Can you tune some of the weakest point to not be too bad?

Its so light without much ballast its impressive that they go so well when it is windy.

The weak point if it could be called a weak point would be the light wind range, Upto 10 knots its alot harder to fend off the magic 25's and T boats not to say it can't be done. The strong point against other sportboats would be in 25 knots. We did alot of racing against bigger keelers and it was alot more even against them through the wind range than it was against other sporties.
We had a masthead soft luff overlapper made from code zero material that was extremely effective in the sub 5 knots upwind and downwind or reaching. Unfortunally for most places it would screw your rating as it would be measured as a headsail.

[Cheesy]

I've been watching the two boats in Australia.

Seems like they go well in heavy winds. One of them sailed about the same in the lighter conditions, the other didn't.

Earlier in this thread I think sterevo says they go ok in the light; all boats have a not so strong point. So what is this boat's strongest and weakest points in wind? Can you tune some of the weakest point to not be too bad?

Its so light without much ballast its impressive that they go so well when it is windy.

The weak point if it could be called a weak point would be the light wind range, Upto 10 knots its alot harder to fend off the magic 25's and T boats not to say it can't be done. The strong point against other sportboats would be in 25 knots. We did alot of racing against bigger keelers and it was alot more even against them through the wind range than it was against other sporties.
We had a masthead soft luff overlapper made from code zero material that was extremely effective in the sub 5 knots upwind and downwind or reaching. Unfortunally for most places it would screw your rating as it would be measured as a headsail.

The weak point was the tack line cleat

[Speng]

Yes; its a manual system for the kite

We did consider a launcher but one of the early buyers on europe was coming from a boat with a launcher and said they were occasionally prone to jam or problems, at which time ur race was over as u cannot fix them easily on the water. In addition, the shaw has a substantially larger kite and launchers work well on smaller kites but it was felt they wouldn't work so well on a masthead 53sqm area kite.

18 foot skiffs all use a manual system incidentally.

Also the boat sails usually with a crew of 4 so its a non issue to do it manually.

Regarding rigging, one boat has synthetic rigging. However the stretch and variability issues have to date not suggested that it is the right solution yet. We are still working on it, and I believe at some point all boats will end up upgrading to synthetic but for now... Dyform.

Synthetic is a great way to save weight; the last place any sportboat wants to carry weight is aloft - hence why carbon rigs are mandatory - and in the shaw the booms and spreaders are also carbon. However it needs to be tested and proven before we roll out for production boats.

4 crew?! Do you mean 4 rice eating vegetarian Thai crew or 4 rugby playing, mutton and potatoes eating NZ crew? How much crew weight is that?

BTW (and I can't believe nobody asked this) WHAT'S IT RATE? Or are we not doing that anymore?

[steveromagnino]

4 crew is about right; we've found in anything under about 20 knots, 290-320kg is fine; over that then increasing weight as high as 340kg is ok, but the moment the wind then is dropping below 15 again, then that extra weight is a pain to cart around. The boat would be fully powered with 2 average people upwind in about 5-8 knots; fully powered with 3 average people upwind in about 8-10 knots, and maybe fully powered with 4 average people in about 10-12 knots. Downwind the less weight the better within reason.

So 4 rice eating vegetarians...well perhaps you might run 5 people, there's enough space for it.

I know we've raced a few times with 3; it's fine in the light stuff, and I can see 3 big guys having a great time sailing in all conditions; I personally am not in the 200lb+ size so really need to find two big guys to make the 3 up configuration work in the heavier stuff.

Regarding ratings, well I wouldn't want to break with tradition (GO THE CONE). In Newport Manic rates 96 I think under PHRF and that's about on par with a M24. Based on results from NZ and Australia it should rate a little faster than a Viper 640 or T650, and quite a bit faster than the U20, Open 570, SB3, M20. Once up to speed it should be able to hold the M24 upwind, but will plane up earlier and sail faster downwind.

Mutton and potatoes I don't think is the typical diet for overweight Kiwis these days sadly; try KFC and BP meat pies washed down with coke, coffee with so much sugar you can stand a spoon up and of course the mandatory dousing of trainsmash (tomato sauce) on everything aye accompanied by a few cans of Lion Red or some other foul cheap local beer :-).

Krispy Kreme just opened in Thailand so we might see a few overweight Thais soon enough; if I could fatten up Noppakao Poonpat (4th in the opti worlds last year overall, 1st girl; 1st overall this year in the opti worlds beating all the boys) she would be an ideal crew... ;_)

[barney]

BTW kites: I've seen the pics on the FP, looks super cool. Is there a reason why the Shaw's kite's shaped like that? I mean that the clew of the sail could be closer to the deck. It's not really a Shaw related question, though. Are there any benefits of that sail cut? Obviously you've got a better view as a helm, but besides that?

[Kestrahl]

Some pics from the Waikawa regatta yesterday,

Magic Trick line honors in all three races against Jive talkin, carbon davidson 35 was closest, Badonkadonk was 2nds 3rds? on line with new owners and smaller No2 Mainsail, T30 was 3rds 4ths.

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•  IMG_6716.JPG   267.06K   155 downloads
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•  IMG_6485.JPG   138.82K   121 downloads

[Kestrahl]

Some pics from the Waikawa regatta yesterday,

Magic Trick line honors in all three races against Jive talkin, carbon davidson 35 was closest, Badonkadonk was 2nds 3rds? on line with new owners and smaller No2 Mainsail, T30 was 3rds 4ths.

Attached Files

•  IMG_6847.JPG   169.22K   68 downloads

[Chase Lounge]

Shaw to be in Melbourne town soon. Barely Legal held up by customs because of import permit! Due late Jan.

[Situation Normal]

Held up because of import permit sounds very familiar. When they say it will take 2 weeks it takes every bit of it. I had a email come back with bang on the 2 weeks asking for further information so my application went to the back of the que and took a further 2 weeks, and instead of sending an email with approval they sent they permit to home which then took a further week by time we got it.
Have fun.

[Chase Lounge]

Phark! Not happy. Lodged the app on the 29 November.
Well done in QLD. You get home OK. Hope all is OK in your part of the world.
Hope to meet at ABRW.

[Situation Normal]

Phark! Not happy. Lodged the app on the 29 November.
Well done in QLD. You get home OK. Hope all is OK in your part of the world.
Hope to meet at ABRW.

It will get here eventually, the permit was just one piece of the jigsaw puzzle, the next fun part is when it does get here and the crap that goes on at this end.

We got home alright, the trip back was alot better than the trip down to Bris as alot of the holes had been patched and the sun was out for the most part, and with the road north of us blocked there was bugger all traffic. We had a ball at the nationals but still a learning curve and it will be nice now to be able get a regular crew together and get some crew work happening which was our biggest problem but had a blast of a week with some great company on and off the water.
ABRW is already on the calender so deffinately see you there.

[steveromagnino]

Now about a week or so out from 2 boats heading over to Perth, just need to resolve a few trailer issues (what is it with boats and trailers....)

Along with 2 other shaw 650s which have just recently headed to melbourne and brisbane combined with the two already in Brisbane and along with 2 more under construction, aussie is looking fairly shaw'ed up for 2011. From zero to 8 in 6 months isn't too bad.

Right now its also all on in nz; shaws are racing at bayofislandsraceweek up in sunny Kerikeri.

After 2 days of racing, so far the big brothers Orbit, Karma Police and Deep throttle have won every race on line so far.

In the 9 sportsboats, currently moneyshot is leading after 2 days and 6 races, but results are very close and we won't speak too soon.

:-)

[Cheesy]

Now about a week or so out from 2 boats heading over to Perth, just need to resolve a few trailer issues (what is it with boats and trailers....)

Along with 2 other shaw 650s which have just recently headed to melbourne and brisbane combined with the two already in Brisbane and along with 2 more under construction, aussie is looking fairly shaw'ed up for 2011. From zero to 8 in 6 months isn't too bad.

Right now its also all on in nz; shaws are racing at bayofislandsraceweek up in sunny Kerikeri.

After 2 days of racing, so far the big brothers Orbit, Karma Police and Deep throttle have won every race on line so far.

In the 9 sportsboats, currently moneyshot is leading after 2 days and 6 races, but results are very close and we won't speak too soon.

:-)

Some pictures here:

http://www.bayofislandssailingweek.org.nz/gallery/main.php

The last Shaw to leave the south island

http://www.bayofislandssailingweek.org.nz/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2740

[steveromagnino]

Congratulations to lee dave and crew on moneyshot, winners of bay of islands raceweek doing in with a race to spare!

Also strong efforts from magic trick, monkey business and snatch.

Shaw power 2011 :-)

[Yard Dog]

Any news of the Shaw coming to North America this season?

[Timbo]

Any news of the Shaw coming to North America this season?

I heard a rumor from a reliable source that they will be right at $50k FOB West Coast...

[steveromagnino]

Timbo; right now you can buy off the Shaw 650 website $40,900 + sales tax which includes delivery to Long Beach port, sails, so the only thing required after that should you want it, is a road trailer or dock dolly.

That can be supplied out of NZ for another $2,000 USD...so that's about $42,900 plus 9.75% tax if delivered in CA..... total $47,000++. I guess if you add on cover, GPS, outboard, etc etc then you might be getting to $50k. It's a bit hard for us to keep track of the dollar these days; hasn't been the strongest currency in the world of late.

Bear in mind the spec - this includes
- twin spreader carbon rig with carbon spreaders and therefore the ability to carry a masthead kite
- carbon boom, carbon prod, carbon tiller
- kevlar sails reflecting the large roach modern designs and large shouldered masthead kites that are delivering some pretty quick boats downunder
- harken deckgear and EVA anti slip deckgrip with the most comfortable hiking position even down to rounded off corners in the deck wings

The race results are in, and pretty encouraging for the Shaw so far in the last 3 months since we had our first boat constructed and launched in Australia, and our first fibreglass production boat delivery. In Australia and New Zealand, the Shaws are being rightly compared to the next size of boat up, based on performance to date across a wide range of conditions. From zero Shaws in October, now there are 4, with another 2 in transit (pic below) and a further 2 under construction over in Aussie.

When we reach USA, and we now know there's a lot of work to do it properly (perhaps as Laser Performance and numerous others have found out themselves), but we hope to acheive the same success because sportsboats provide the joy of sailing a boat that is light, powerful and so easy to go fast in - we believe the Shaw provides that in spades.

Timbo; right now you can buy off the Shaw 650 website $40,900 + sales tax which includes delivery to Long Beach port, sails, so the only thing required after that should you want it, is a road trailer or dock dolly.

That can be supplied out of NZ for another $2,000 USD...so that's about $42,900 plus 9.75% tax if delivered in CA..... total $47,000++. I guess if you add on cover, GPS, outboard, etc etc then you might be getting to $50k. It's a bit hard for us to keep track of the dollar these days; hasn't been the strongest currency in the world of late.

Bear in mind the spec - this includes
- twin spreader carbon rig with carbon spreaders and therefore the ability to carry a masthead kite
- carbon boom, carbon prod, carbon tiller
- kevlar sails reflecting the large roach modern designs and large shouldered masthead kites that are delivering some pretty quick boats downunder
- harken deckgear and EVA anti slip deckgrip with the most comfortable hiking position even down to rounded off corners in the deck wings

The race results are in, and pretty encouraging for the Shaw so far in the last 3 months since we had our first boat constructed and launched in Australia, and our first fibreglass production boat delivery. In Australia and New Zealand, the Shaws are being rightly compared to the next size of boat up, based on performance to date across a wide range of conditions. From zero Shaws in October, now there are 4, with another 2 in transit (pic below) and a further 2 under construction over in Aussie.

When we reach USA, and we now know there's a lot of work to do it properly (perhaps as Laser Performance and numerous others have found out themselves), but we hope to acheive the same success because sportsboats provide the joy of sailing a boat that is light, powerful and so easy to go fast in - we believe the Shaw provides that in spades.

yard dog - PM sent ;-)

Attached Files

•  P1261332.JPG   103.29K   51 downloads

[Timbo]

Steve-o, Very excited about the Shaw hitting the Left Coast!! MORE SPORTIES!!! And I agree it's quite the little package... I'm gonna call in some favors and see if I can get a ride on the Santa Cruz boat when it's finished..

Send a box-o-boats to Long Beach... ;P

[jbcobra22]

How does the Shaw650 go up wind in some swell/big chop? All the footage I've found so far has only small chop or flat water in sheltered areas. We get some solid 1-2m crap on a regular basis, so just wondering how they handle in a bit more swell.

[steveromagnino]

Goes pretty well but of course it is only a 6.5m long boat so it isn't fantastic.

We've sailed mine in 25 knots with a sea size around that 1.5-2.5m size. Still fairly quick as long as the boat is actively steered as much as possible. Upwind the boat speed will drop away if the boat starts pounding; active trimming and helming alleviates a lot of that.

In those conditions we've been usually acheiving 5.8-6 knots with a bit more in the flat spots.

Harder to find pictures in those conditions, will see how we go in perth and geographe bay for some pics now that we have a gopro camera.

Downwind obviously is a non issue :-)

Not sure any other 6.5m would fare much better. The decklayout means the boat occasionally pokes right through a wave and the water just goes out the stern.

There is a smaller jib which helps in big breeze too. And a smaller reaching kite :-)

[lowcamaro]

I know we have had good success sailing the Rocket in higher wind conditions by opening up the slot...the boat is rigged with a barber hauler to accomadate, how do the Shaw's accomplish this?

[GybeSet®]

How does the Shaw650 go up wind in some swell/big chop? All the footage I've found so far has only small chop or flat water in sheltered areas. We get some solid 1-2m crap on a regular basis, so just wondering how they handle in a bit more swell.

they'd handle it faster than any other boat that size


btw see the rocker in the keel-line and remember the lightness

[Kestrahl]

How does the Shaw650 go up wind in some swell/big chop? All the footage I've found so far has only small chop or flat water in sheltered areas. We get some solid 1-2m crap on a regular basis, so just wondering how they handle in a bit more swell.

They handle the chop no problem, and the rougher it is the better they go against other sporties. we would be matching it with 35fters in wind and chop, the same 35fters that would be close to us in flatter water. We would regularly be doing high 6's and 7+ with 2 wires. Where we did have some problems was when the swell was that big that it blocked the wind from the shortish rig on the shaw, so we would be in the trough with no wind, then get flattened when reaching the top of the swell.

When I was building Badonkadonk alot of people told me it would be no good upwind here because it was only 6.5m and we have a nasty chop. Turns out the length doesn't mean anything with a shaw.

[Kestrahl]

Pic of Badonkadonk and Magic Trick racing in wellington last weekend at the Port Nicholson regatta, 3 shaws racing. Badonkadonk won Div 1 but then it was being sailed by Chris Nicholson and 3 others from the Emirates Team NZ VOR crew.

How does the Shaw650 go up wind in some swell/big chop? All the footage I've found so far has only small chop or flat water in sheltered areas. We get some solid 1-2m crap on a regular basis, so just wondering how they handle in a bit more swell.

They handle the chop no problem, and the rougher it is the better they go against other sporties. we would be matching it with 35fters in wind and chop, the same 35fters that would be close to us in flatter water. We would regularly be doing high 6's and 7+ with 2 wires. Where we did have some problems was when the swell was that big that it blocked the wind from the shortish rig on the shaw, so we would be in the trough with no wind, then get flattened when reaching the top of the swell.

When I was building Badonkadonk alot of people told me it would be no good upwind here because it was only 6.5m and we have a nasty chop. Turns out the length doesn't mean anything with a shaw.

Attached Files

•  shaw.JPG   74.01K   131 downloads

[steveromagnino]

2 boats now in customs in fremantle. Woohoo!

My guess is the boat goes pretty well because it has a light moderate size rig so it doesn't pitch around; the boat is sailed fairly flat upwind and the waterline beam is reasonably narrow since the boat has small wings plus relatively low displacement.

The class boats sail no trapexpzes 4 up mostly and in a variety of conditions, peow peow, snafu, manic, pornstar, moneyshot have all shown great speeds upwind regularly holding onto the heels of t750s and other larger sb.

Just requires a little concentration, probably no different to any other small boat upwind. Above 20 knots changing to the 2nd jib tends to help as well. Plenty of rig tension. And a priority on sailing the boat fairly flat. Also not having a cleat for the main is a wise move (on any boat).

Downwind its a non issue; in big breeze and big seas the boat is just awesome.

[Slappy]

I dunno Timbo... We drink a fair amount of rum up here... Oh wait... That's right, you'll fit right in.

Steve-o, Very excited about the Shaw hitting the Left Coast!! MORE SPORTIES!!! And I agree it's quite the little package... I'm gonna call in some favors and see if I can get a ride on the Santa Cruz boat when it's finished..

Send a box-o-boats to Long Beach... ;P

[tassieflyer]

what is the average lead time for one of these? including shipping to australia?

[steveromagnino]

The first few ran late and behind schedule a bit from fiddling around.

Now depending on where we deliver (australia is a big country!) Our next available boat will be finished in 6 weeks and delivery to east coast add on 1-2 weeks including custom clearance; west coast add on 4 weeks for delivery.

Pm me if you need more info or email off the shaw website :-)

[Timbo]

Call me, I'll bring up a handle or two...

I dunno Timbo... We drink a fair amount of rum up here... Oh wait... That's right, you'll fit right in.

Steve-o, Very excited about the Shaw hitting the Left Coast!! MORE SPORTIES!!! And I agree it's quite the little package... I'm gonna call in some favors and see if I can get a ride on the Santa Cruz boat when it's finished..

Send a box-o-boats to Long Beach... ;P

[Scotch Whiskey]

Timbo; right now you can buy off the Shaw 650 website $40,900 + sales tax which includes delivery to Long Beach port, sails, so the only thing required after that should you want it, is a road trailer or dock dolly.

That can be supplied out of NZ for another $2,000 USD...so that's about $42,900 plus 9.75% tax if delivered in CA..... total $47,000++. I guess if you add on cover, GPS, outboard, etc etc then you might be getting to $50k. It's a bit hard for us to keep track of the dollar these days; hasn't been the strongest currency in the world of late.

Bear in mind the spec - this includes
- twin spreader carbon rig with carbon spreaders and therefore the ability to carry a masthead kite
- carbon boom, carbon prod, carbon tiller
- kevlar sails reflecting the large roach modern designs and large shouldered masthead kites that are delivering some pretty quick boats downunder
- harken deckgear and EVA anti slip deckgrip with the most comfortable hiking position even down to rounded off corners in the deck wings

The race results are in, and pretty encouraging for the Shaw so far in the last 3 months since we had our first boat constructed and launched in Australia, and our first fibreglass production boat delivery. In Australia and New Zealand, the Shaws are being rightly compared to the next size of boat up, based on performance to date across a wide range of conditions. From zero Shaws in October, now there are 4, with another 2 in transit (pic below) and a further 2 under construction over in Aussie.

When we reach USA, and we now know there's a lot of work to do it properly (perhaps as Laser Performance and numerous others have found out themselves), but we hope to acheive the same success because sportsboats provide the joy of sailing a boat that is light, powerful and so easy to go fast in - we believe the Shaw provides that in spades.

Timbo; right now you can buy off the Shaw 650 website $40,900 + sales tax which includes delivery to Long Beach port, sails, so the only thing required after that should you want it, is a road trailer or dock dolly.

That can be supplied out of NZ for another $2,000 USD...so that's about $42,900 plus 9.75% tax if delivered in CA..... total $47,000++. I guess if you add on cover, GPS, outboard, etc etc then you might be getting to $50k. It's a bit hard for us to keep track of the dollar these days; hasn't been the strongest currency in the world of late.

Bear in mind the spec - this includes
- twin spreader carbon rig with carbon spreaders and therefore the ability to carry a masthead kite
- carbon boom, carbon prod, carbon tiller
- kevlar sails reflecting the large roach modern designs and large shouldered masthead kites that are delivering some pretty quick boats downunder
- harken deckgear and EVA anti slip deckgrip with the most comfortable hiking position even down to rounded off corners in the deck wings

The race results are in, and pretty encouraging for the Shaw so far in the last 3 months since we had our first boat constructed and launched in Australia, and our first fibreglass production boat delivery. In Australia and New Zealand, the Shaws are being rightly compared to the next size of boat up, based on performance to date across a wide range of conditions. From zero Shaws in October, now there are 4, with another 2 in transit (pic below) and a further 2 under construction over in Aussie.

When we reach USA, and we now know there's a lot of work to do it properly (perhaps as Laser Performance and numerous others have found out themselves), but we hope to acheive the same success because sportsboats provide the joy of sailing a boat that is light, powerful and so easy to go fast in - we believe the Shaw provides that in spades.

yard dog - PM sent ;-)

Awww... The `twins` first ultrasound¡

[Scotch Whiskey]

2 boats now in customs in fremantle. Woohoo!

My guess is the boat goes pretty well because it has a light moderate size rig so it doesn't pitch around; the boat is sailed fairly flat upwind and the waterline beam is reasonably narrow since the boat has small wings plus relatively low displacement.

The class boats sail no trapexpzes 4 up mostly and in a variety of conditions, peow peow, snafu, manic, pornstar, moneyshot have all shown great speeds upwind regularly holding onto the heels of t750s and other larger sb.

Just requires a little concentration, probably no different to any other small boat upwind. Above 20 knots changing to the 2nd jib tends to help as well. Plenty of rig tension. And a priority on sailing the boat fairly flat. Also not having a cleat for the main is a wise move (on any boat).

Downwind its a non issue; in big breeze and big seas the boat is just awesome.

Cue the theme to James Bond...

[oregami]

Scotch
Great to see the Shaw arrive on our shore.
We're developing a great sportsboat fleet here in WA with Melges24, Elliott's , T7's and 7.5"s, Magic 25's etc,etc

Are you going to get it out of the customs hassle and down to Geographe Bay Race Week??? hope so!!
It will be the first time the Shaw 650 and Viper 640 meet in Australia.

Will report results on SA - unfortunately turnout is down from last year - 6 Vipers, 1 Shaw 650 and 1 Melges 24- Hopefully we will get some late entries.

As an aside, is the SMS working for older, slightly heavier sportsboats????

[Scotch Whiskey]

Scotch
Great to see the Shaw arrive on our shore.
We're developing a great sportsboat fleet here in WA with Melges24, Elliott's , T7's and 7.5"s, Magic 25's etc,etc

Are you going to get it out of the customs hassle and down to Geographe Bay Race Week??? hope so!!
It will be the first time the Shaw 650 and Viper 640 meet in Australia.

Will report results on SA - unfortunately turnout is down from last year - 6 Vipers, 1 Shaw 650 and 1 Melges 24- Hopefully we will get some late entries.

As an aside, is the SMS working for older, slightly heavier sportsboats????

Hi Oregami, yes. We're all very excited about getting the boats here, and the new vipers. Yes, WA is building an awesome fleet of sporties. They are ideal for our conditions and well suited to our busy lifestyles over here - and Im probably a bit biased but ive got to say that we've got a great bunch of people involved in the SB group.

Between us, we will have one Shaw down at raceweek, all going well. We'd be really pushing it to get Octopussy there as well, given the need for fit out, rigging, sails and measurement in such a short time frame. With any luck, we'll get to go for a play on Saturday but we'll just have to see what can be done first. Meanwhile, I am planning to crew on a friends new viper for the first few days and then crew on the Shaw later in the week. So excited!!! (and spoilt - giggle).

Re the older sporties - my sense of things is that it's not too bad (probably as good an equaliser as we've got, given the different designs) but then, I haven't really sailed on the older designs to be in the position to really comment. I know that we have a few older, heavier boats participate just as regularly as the rest of us. You don't generally ever see one get a bullet (that usually goes to a 750, closely followed by a viper or T7) but they can place well (depending on who is sailing it). AND when it's not ideal, there are things that can be done to optimise the older designs within SMS and that's really up to the individual as to whether they want to work their boat to fit that way.

I'm all for being inclusive (the more sporties out there, the better) so, yeah, I'd be interested to hear what others who maybe sail on the older designs have to say.

[mezaire]

Well after they arrived 3 days ago, the first Shaw 650 hit the drink here in Perth, Western Australia.

Firstly big congrats to the builders and owner, the boat looks brilliant!!!

Stock sails don't look too bad either. Pic from behind when sailing didn't have enough vang, something that was fixed soon after.

Boat is on her way to Geographe Race Week tomorrow against 7 Vipers and a M24. Will be interesting to see how she goes with only a very short time on the water.

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•  DSC00254.jpg   100.24K   202 downloads
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[Situation Normal]

well done guys looks good

[Chase Lounge]

Barely Legal now in Melbourne. First sail last night in a 10knot, building to 15kt SW breeze. Smooth uphill with a 12+kt ride home under 'small' aso. Helm was in touch and responsive at all times.
Wife was terrified (never sailed anything under 40ft without a tv) but has now tasted blood and has given two thumbs up so looks like i can keep her.
Looking forward to first race to see how she goes in a crowd. Yacht club has asked why i want sail no. Sm1617 .... I thought it was obvious.

[Swanno (Ohf Shore)]

Yacht club has asked why i want sail no. Sm1617 .... I thought it was obvious.

Funniest thing I have read on SA for months

[mahasky]

Wife was terrified (never sailed anything under 40ft without a tv) but has now tasted blood and has given two thumbs up so looks like i can keep her.
.

Keep the wife or the boat?

[RockHead]

Wife was terrified (never sailed anything under 40ft without a tv) but has now tasted blood and has given two thumbs up so looks like i can keep her.
.

Keep the wife or the boat?

No, THAT'S the funniest thing I've read on SA for months


Maybe it's just me, because my wife was/is so pissed off that I bought my Viper without asking. A few days of racing on the boat, and a couple of 14-16 knot blasts, and she's somewhat less angry -perhaps even grudgingly accepting. Likes the boat, but still pissed off at me a year+ later. Gotta take the wife racing on the Vipe more this year, so I can hopefully keep both!

[Timbo]

Rock, I would take her out whenever you go...... I think she does have Olympic Champion trimming abilities!

[steveromagnino]

Indecent haste went out for about 15 min thurs night, then another 20 min yesterday to check the kite hoist and drop. The other boat Octopussy will be launched some time next week since this week all ppl involved are 2 hours south of fremantle (freo as the locals call it. In aussie most things can be localised by knocking off the last few syllables and adding an o or a y to the end).

First real day sailing was today over in geographe raceweek against some vipers and m24s. Not quite ideal to race with crew who haven't sailed together, 3 ppl new to the boat and the owner hasn't helmed one before for any significant time.... But we will see how it goes.

I am already back in thailand; nice to meet a couple of anarchists down in perth involved with building the thompson 750 and another shaw 650.

Fantastic sailing waters on the swan river. The new owner will be racing a nice mixed fleet too - m24, t750, j9000, colson 8, t870, magic, viper - a LOT of curious aussies while we were assembling the boats that's for sure!

[steveromagnino]

Indecent haste went out for about 15 min thurs night, then another 20 min yesterday to check the kite hoist and drop. The other boat Octopussy will be launched some time next week since this week all ppl involved are 2 hours south of fremantle (freo as the locals call it. In aussie most things can be localised by knocking off the last few syllables and adding an o or a y to the end).

First real day sailing was today over in geographe raceweek against some vipers and m24s. Not quite ideal to race with crew who haven't sailed together, 3 ppl new to the boat and the owner hasn't helmed one before for any significant time.... But we will see how it goes.

I am already back in thailand; nice to meet a couple of anarchists down in perth involved with building the thompson 750 and another shaw 650.

Fantastic sailing waters on the swan river. The new owner will be racing a nice mixed fleet too - m24, t750, j9000, colson 8, t870, magic, viper - a LOT of curious aussies while we were assembling the boats that's for sure!

[RockHead]

Rock, I would take her out whenever you go...... I think she does have Olympic Champion trimming abilities!

Yes, the kite always looks quite good when the sheet is in her hands, even if her transfers from side to side of the boat during gybes are sometimes less than graceful!

[steveromagnino]

And now a few more pics to put into the mix.....


First, we took the boats out of the container, and needed to take the trailer off to get registered....nice to be able to lift the boat between 3 people and lay it on the pristine Freshy yacht club lawn.....

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•  pre keel.jpg   1005.03K   52 downloads

[steveromagnino]

The boat yet to be launched, Octopussy, has the white EVA foam deck; this one called Indecent Haste, went with the light grey deck; looks pretty sweet in person.

Next we flicked the boat back onto the trailer, fitted a few remaining fittings, then took the boat to the crane, where we lifted her up, to flick the keel in. The boats are quite ok to be launched with a keel winch (supplied) or using the lifting points at the mainsheet bulkhead and the maststep. With a hull weight of <200kg including all the fittings, it's not exactly difficult to lift up....so up we went and got ready to thread the keel up into the case.

With a few breaks for drinks in the middle of course. After all, we are in Australia.

A quick launch party, and then the boat ended up wet, for the first time, late on Thursday afternoon.

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•  keel insertion.jpg   405.05K   81 downloads
•  launched!.jpg   420.8K   93 downloads

[steveromagnino]

Then last of all, it was time to quickly make the most of the light evening 2-4 knot breeze, blowing down the Swan River (or REEVAH as it is pronounced there); in case you are wondering, the boat will end up with Evolution Sails, the ones on her now are the standard production membrane loadpath sails from us - the durability of kevlar is hard to beat and these light weight boats don't load up the sails too much anyhow.

The following day, the owner/skipper was busy finalising trailer registration, so I took the chance myself to sail one of these new boats for about 20 min with a couple of crew, again in 2-4 knots.

I shot a bit of footage and so will load it up when I figure out how to edit it ;_)

All in all a fun little trip down to Freo, and seems like the Shaw 650 will fit in really well with the Vipers, Thompsons, M24s, J9000 and other sporties that all sail on the Swan River.

The 2nd boat will go into the water next weekend or thereafter, as now her owners are down in Geographe Bay racing on other boats.

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•  launched3.jpg   542.87K   45 downloads

[steveromagnino]

So after a blurry week, the 2nd Perth (or to be more precise, Fremantle) Shaw 650 OCTOPUSSY (so named because it is the 8th Shaw 650 constructed to date, although the name would also work if it was the 7th as well I guess) has hit the waters of the mighty Swan River; in the area renowned for Quokkas, the 1987 America's Cup, barramundi and of course, Australia's heavily modified 50 footer that is a TP52. Or something to that effect.

The new owners will enjoy racing against Indecent Haste launched a week earlier, and a local fleet including M24s, T750s, Vipers, Magic 25s and various other craft such as JS9000, T870, Colson 8, and so on. For those who haven't been there, the Swan river is an enclosed big deep water estuary connected to the ocean through a river mouth channel (which annoyingly has 2 bridges making exiting with the rig up a bit tricky unless they use our suggestion of heeling the boat about 30 degrees) so most racing is in the River basin which seems to get a steady 12-20 knots most days over the summer......greaaaaat conditions to sail a Shaw and we look forward to seeing how these two get on for the rest of the season.

This one has the class sails from us for now (despite the evolution sails shirt in the foreground) and the other one has evolution class sails built down in WA.

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•  Go Kite!.jpg   456.69K   123 downloads
•  Sweet graphics sexy keel.jpg   494.07K   129 downloads

[albanyguy]

Yep enjoy your new toy Scotchy & Boat Whore, oh & Skid as well.
They did yesterday. Good fly down the Swan powered by the Freo Doctor to the Pussy's new home at South of Perth Yacht Club.
Report here - http://freodoctor.co...d=23909&catid=2

[oregami]

New boat looks fantastic. You owe me a ride on the Octopussy.
Will catch up.

[steveromagnino]

if you are going to sail with the kite, might as well pop it up as early as possible; that image with the kite up must be less than 30m off the breakwater where they launched the boat (and where the camera person is standing); must have sailed with the kite within the first 10 seconds of owning the boat ;_)

Logo design for the boat is well in keeping with the Shaw 650 traditions :-)

one of the nice things while we were setting the boats up in the shade at Freshie, is the EVA deck; much more comfortable to sit on, and pretty grippy. Plus the deck won't dent when you drop glass rum bottles while doing bottle sculls (guessing as to what happens on some sportsboats).

Shaw 650 logo and all components thereof the copyright property of Shaw Yacht Design and Beck Shaw Boats.

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•  shaw 650 logo.jpg   47.85K   8 downloads

[albanyguy]

one of the nice things while we were setting the boats up in the shade at Freshie, is the EVA deck; much more comfortable to sit on, and pretty grippy. Plus the deck won't dent when you drop glass rum bottles while doing bottle sculls (guessing as to what happens on some sportsboats).

Nah wrong liqour of choice their Steve for Scotchy. She's had plenty of practice skippering whilst sculling a bottle of American Honey in the past. And yes there are photos to prove this feat but I'm sure she doesn't want that one dredged up once again

[Scotch Whiskey]

wasn't me.

[albanyguy]

wasn't me.

Do you reeaallly want me to dredge that photo up again?

[Scotch Whiskey]

no.

[Scotch Whiskey]

no.

[steveromagnino]

Well scotch is from scotland not america so I won't believe anything without photos. :-)

Are there drink driving rules in australia for yachts?

Anyway that eva is a safety feature for bottles. Just sayin'

[albanyguy]

no.

Yeah didn't think so. I think we can put that behind us now.
Steve - you'll have to do your own research. And yes there are rules about drink driving on the water in WA.