183 replies to this topic

[Teaky]

weiight in the fin?

[GybeSet®]

not a lot


only has to support a a 100 odd kg bulb

[Scottyk]

yeah I considered the weight of the fin as well, I am at about 17kgs so not enough there and I am pretty sure it needs 100kg in the bulb.
The build is progressing. I have sold my trailer sailor so now have some money to throw at it. The foam for the deck turns up on Monday so decks will begin then.
Here is some pics, not much progress that can be seen but lots of little jobs getting done
Mojo, I have found one piece of free software for that but can't get it to work, any help would be appreciated.
Scotty

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[Scottyk]

more pics

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[Scottyk]

one more

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[jim lee]

How does one decide where to punch through for the sprit? Is lower or higher better? Is there a perfect level? I notice yours is about a foot below the sheer line.

-jim lee

[Scottyk]

Jim, I came out about 100mm below the deck at the front. The angle and the other two holes were dictated by the requirement to be able to retract the pole which brings it into the cockpit floor and not have the pole hit the deck. It still had to be as low as possible to be able to slide through the mast step.
It took a fair bit of setting out with a string line over the boat to get it right.
So I don't think a foot below the sheer is quite right, maybe the pics a re bit of an illusion

[Situation Normal]

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

[Kestrahl]

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

All the NZ cedar boats used a plug that Rob Shaw lent around, I'm pretty sure Milton still has it as his Magic Trick was the last one built here. It wasn't a round bulb, it was squashed so oval. I think ours came out around the 90kg mark with a big lump on the top where we poured the lead which would have been 5kg. Never weighed it after that.

[Mojounwin]

Have a crack at this. It's for RC keel bulbs so only has a max of 20kg, but just scale it up to get what you want. http://onemetre.net/...lc/Bulbcalc.htm

Cheers
Mojo

[Scottyk]

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

Thanks for the info and measure that helps a lot as I am 840mm length so I can see what it needs to be. Looks like I might have to get back on the wood lathe and make another. It is a bit annoying that the plans have it so far wrong. I might check all my maths again and then send Rob an email.
Thanks lads
Scotty

[furcoat]

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

All the NZ cedar boats used a plug that Rob Shaw lent around, I'm pretty sure Milton still has it as his Magic Trick was the last one built here. It wasn't a round bulb, it was squashed so oval. I think ours came out around the 90kg mark with a big lump on the top where we poured the lead which would have been 5kg. Never weighed it after that.

Wha-ka is about 820 long, 70 wide and 90 high

[GybeSet®]

from what i've read here the fastest boat in aus (Peow) simply used the production OD bulb which was fashioned around the CE rightability

[GybeSet®]

http://www.sail-worl...ugh-Again/90911

[Kestrahl]

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

All the NZ cedar boats used a plug that Rob Shaw lent around, I'm pretty sure Milton still has it as his Magic Trick was the last one built here. It wasn't a round bulb, it was squashed so oval. I think ours came out around the 90kg mark with a big lump on the top where we poured the lead which would have been 5kg. Never weighed it after that.

Wha-ka is about 820 long, 70 wide and 90 high

Maybe they used it around the other way on Wha-ka.

[furcoat]

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

All the NZ cedar boats used a plug that Rob Shaw lent around, I'm pretty sure Milton still has it as his Magic Trick was the last one built here. It wasn't a round bulb, it was squashed so oval. I think ours came out around the 90kg mark with a big lump on the top where we poured the lead which would have been 5kg. Never weighed it after that.

Wha-ka is about 820 long, 70 wide and 90 high

Maybe they used it around the other way on Wha-ka.

I don't have access to the boat at the moment so some one else did the measurements. Maybe the dimensions got reversed in the translation.

[Headntac]

Great thread guys...........all about Lumberjacks...............any more build pics?

[Scottyk]

Lumberjack is kinda growing on me for a name...? maybe
Here are some more pics. One is the foam piece for the for deck. It has been glassed ones side and will now be fitter to the boat and then glassed again on the outside. The a flush cutter on a router to clean off the excess.
The foam is core cell M, seems ok? A quick search on the different brands gets you all sorts of confusing stuff but this is what i have. I haven't worked with foam before so it's a bit of a learning curve but going ok.
The other two pics show the CB, I have glued strips of timber to the faired shape and have used a router set up on a sliding jig to get it flat. I repeated this on the other side and then I have a square top to my CB. I plan on using this square section as a mould for the board case itself, made of glass and carbon. The plans ask for the case to be out of ply but I don't like having ply in contact with the water in the case, even if is glassed well it still can't be accessed again so may cause issues in the future.
Mast is now on the way from C-tech so it's all go now, push, push
Scotty

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[TwoHeadsAreBetterThanOne]

Scott, have a chat to Alan L down at PD who is building an i550 locally. Bruce Nye (NyeCAM) did him a CNC bulb out of blue foam which will be used for a sand mould I think. Bruce should be able to do the calcs as to weight etc and program in a suitable sized bulb for the weight you need for the Shaw. If you want to contact Bruce directly he has had an advert in the club newsletter over the last few issues

Two Heads

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

All the NZ cedar boats used a plug that Rob Shaw lent around, I'm pretty sure Milton still has it as his Magic Trick was the last one built here. It wasn't a round bulb, it was squashed so oval. I think ours came out around the 90kg mark with a big lump on the top where we poured the lead which would have been 5kg. Never weighed it after that.

[awi]

That's definitely the way to go. Sand casting is easy and precise.
Tweak the model with VPP software.
Maybe you could mill the keel and rudder foils while you are at it.

You have a great project. It's been very inspiring to watch your progress.

Scott, have a chat to Alan L down at PD who is building an i550 locally. Bruce Nye (NyeCAM) did him a CNC bulb out of blue foam which will be used for a sand mould I think. Bruce should be able to do the calcs as to weight etc and program in a suitable sized bulb for the weight you need for the Shaw. If you want to contact Bruce directly he has had an advert in the club newsletter over the last few issues

Two Heads

Got an issue I thought I might see if the SA brains trust can help me with
I have made the plug to mould the keel bulb from. In the plans it gives a shape to use. I made is on a wood lathe being round and reckon I got it pretty accurately. After it was made I measured its displacement in water and got about 6.1 litres. When I convert that into lead I get about 70kgs, not enough.

I have checked all my maths several times and it seems good, am I missing something?
The length of the bulb is 840mm, is that the same as the production ones?
If some one out there who has built one or has a production keel they can measure for me that would be great.

Sailing with a 70kg bulb might be fast but might not get me over the line for sms
Scotty

Hey Scotty
just had a measure of ours I can't get a width for you with how it is sitting at the moment on the trailer but length is 980mm with a height of 140mm.
I think you will find that that weight is pretty close to the boats sailing out of NZ and the couple of home build imports into Aust so it may pay to talk to those guys how they got around the rightability I think the production boats came out about the 108kg mark plus the board.

All the NZ cedar boats used a plug that Rob Shaw lent around, I'm pretty sure Milton still has it as his Magic Trick was the last one built here. It wasn't a round bulb, it was squashed so oval. I think ours came out around the 90kg mark with a big lump on the top where we poured the lead which would have been 5kg. Never weighed it after that.

[steveromagnino]

For the glass boats and future timber ones we have the optimised longer shape bulb 108kg same as the peow peow glass boats now and the 5 (!) Glass boats sold and being delivered in the next few months to Australia.

I will send the 3d file to people and to Rob to supply to the ppl who started building pre the change.

The new shape is feeling like it is less draggy but makes the boat a bit more forgiving and self righting.

[Rawhide]

For the glass boats and future timber ones we have the optimised longer shape bulb 108kg same as the peow peow glass boats now and the 5 (!) Glass boats sold and being delivered in the next few months to Australia.

I will send the 3d file to people and to Rob to supply to the ppl who started building pre the change.

The new shape is feeling like it is less draggy but makes the boat a bit more forgiving and self righting.

Where are the Aus boats going is there likely to be OD racing soon?

[steveromagnino]

By Feb 2012 will be Glass and timber boats confirmed and paid for already:
- 4 boats in Perth/Freo (2 soon to deliver)
- 2 boats in Tasmania (1 to deliver)
- 5 boats in Brisbane/surrounding Queensland area (1 of these to deliver)
- 2 boats in Melboune area
- 1 boat in Port Stephens/NSW (1 to deliver)

On top of that there is another timber boat making, ok how can I be polite here,"not fast" progress in Sydney, and another glass boat in NSW where the owner has an issue with taking delivery of the boat at this time; we are rolling it over for them until they are ready (personal circumstances).

It's not a bad start from zero boats just 14 months ago. Owners are now starting to talk together so OD racing should start to take shape March onwards next year; due to the distances it's perhaps not entirely realistic to expect the perth boats to come over, but based on their interest to come over and show you guys how they do it in WA, we have plans for a few charter boats next year in NSW/Queensland, so owners won't necessarily have to bring their boats across the country.

Still a bit spread out as of today, but with the time it takes for interest to turn into sales, and for people to move their existing boats and so forth, we already are predicting 2012 will be a very good year for the Shaw sales, and in turn that means a good indicator for one design racing.

The other point is that the Shaws punch above their weight a little length wise; so the guys tell me they are having some great battles with the T7s, M24s, and so on as well; that's also important given the large number of other events where it is mixed fleet racing. maybe not always so good for winning overall (that big cluster of boats in the middle isn't always easy to get past when everyone is roughly similar speed on the first upwind leg) but makes for a lot of fun out on the water.

[Scottyk]

For the glass boats and future timber ones we have the optimised longer shape bulb 108kg same as the peow peow glass boats now and the 5 (!) Glass boats sold and being delivered in the next few months to Australia.

I will send the 3d file to people and to Rob to supply to the ppl who started building pre the change.

The new shape is feeling like it is less draggy but makes the boat a bit more forgiving and self righting.

Where are the Aus boats going is there likely to be OD racing soon?

Bring on OD racing!
If you add to that the good SMS system then it means the sports boat fleets are going to be strong in the future, can only be good.
I am about to go back to work so the boat will have to sit and wait for a little while.
Thanks again for all the help from the SA mob
Scotty

[Turkey Slapper]

The other point is that the Shaws punch above their weight a little length wise; so the guys tell me they are having some great battles with the T7s, M24s, and so on as well; that's also important given the large number of other events where it is mixed fleet racing. maybe not always so good for winning overall (that big cluster of boats in the middle isn't always easy to get past when everyone is roughly similar speed on the first upwind leg) but makes for a lot of fun out on the water.

The shaws race around us in the lighter stuff, but once the wind is over 12 knots they have the pace to clear the big gaggle of boats around the sms .806 to .820 boats, and cant do a thing about it on sms at the moment! Well the good ones bolt every race anyway!

Please stop sending these things over here, well until the light boat sms bias is gone anyway so the rest of have a chance!

Or send me one to use!

Promise i will look after it as if its my own!

[steveromagnino]

I will line u up a ride on one soon enough TS. They are good fun boats in a bit of breeze :-)

Not sure a shaw would be able a bloke of your size climbing the rig during light patches like in that pic of u hanging off the lower spreaders :-)

[awi]

What's your assessment of the differences between the Shaw 650 and the Thompson 650? I ask because there are Thompsons in my area.

Here's another lurid moniker: ROCHAMBEAU. (You know, the game Rock-Paper-Scissors, the French General and apparently a hotel in New Orleans...)



For more color, possibly too much, there's a song, "Meet Me At the Rochambeau" by PxMxW.

[GybeSet®]

in very recent SBA entries the Shaw has been compared directly with just about every boat it's shared a startline with

have a look

[Scottyk]

Got a bit more done over xmas but had family hanging around so had to play host a fair bit which cut down available time.
Foredeck is one has to trimmed with a flush cutter yet and glassed too.
Foam wing sections have been glued on and the first round of fill done. They were a bit quicker that I though to get done. Some jobs are quicker than you think they are going to be but not many, most are longer than you think!
It's back to work for me now so a few weeks of dreaming about the next bit before they get done.

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[Scottyk]

two more
have made my stern vertical rather than the slope that the plans call for. When it come to fitting a lifting outboard bracket a sloping stern is a pain in the ass so a plumb stern it is. I might to away with the rear bar running from rudder to the wing as this will also make outboard handling a pain.

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[Rawhide]

two more
have made my stern vertical rather than the slope that the plans call for. When it come to fitting a lifting outboard bracket a sloping stern is a pain in the ass so a plumb stern it is. I might to away with the rear bar running from rudder to the wing as this will also make outboard handling a pain.

I would have thought the increase in tortional rigidity which is significant, would make the rear bar well worth the pain? Afterall how many times do you handle the outboard in a race?

[Turkey Slapper]

Scientific reasearch shows that the twisting of the aft of the boat to create a larger planing surface is an advantage!

[Scottyk]

two more
have made my stern vertical rather than the slope that the plans call for. When it come to fitting a lifting outboard bracket a sloping stern is a pain in the ass so a plumb stern it is. I might to away with the rear bar running from rudder to the wing as this will also make outboard handling a pain.

I would have thought the increase in tortional rigidity which is significant, would make the rear bar well worth the pain? Afterall how many times do you handle the outboard in a race?

The strength is a consideration and some suitable gussets will have to be made up, probably from foam and some uni laid up and over them on onto the wing to try and give is as much strength as possible.

[VERGE]

One of the other home builds eliminated the bar (was it peow peow?). There are pics somewhere on SA they placed triangular gussets in the aft corner from sloe to wing. I think It llooks ugly but it could make outboard handling easier.

[furcoat]

What's your assessment of the differences between the Shaw 650 and the Thompson 650? I ask because there are Thompsons in my area.

Here's another lurid moniker: ROCHAMBEAU. (You know, the game Rock-Paper-Scissors, the French General and apparently a hotel in New Orleans...)



For more color, possibly too much, there's a song, "Meet Me At the Rochambeau" by PxMxW.

We sail against a T650 and they are very comparable - taller rig (the one we sail against has a superb set of sails - looks great) not sure how the weights compare but I'm guessing slightly in the Shaw's favor.

For the Shaws it kind of goes like this -

<9kts-ish it's a waterline length battle and you get hosed by anything longer for straight line speed upwind and struggle to get it back down wind
9-12ish -the weight advantage gets the Shaws on the plane a bit earlier than the others and you pick up the fat boats not yet planing downwind
>12-ish you can hold the bigger boats downwind but still lose them a bit upwind although again the weight difference helps a lot and the wings to get the movable weight out

Personally, on limited evidence, I think the T650 planes a bit later and misses that early planing window the keeps the Shaws up with the bigger boats as the wind builds. But other than that they're pretty close.

[Turkey Slapper]

One of the other home builds eliminated the bar (was it peow peow?). There are pics somewhere on SA they placed triangular gussets in the aft corner from sloe to wing. I think It llooks ugly but it could make outboard handling easier.

Mabe ugly is fast?

As per the T650 match up, they have the same sms as the Magoo, from memory are 150 kg's lighter than the T7, about 650kg? So compared to the shaw's is still a metric shit load heavier! The T's have a taller rig and can compete in the light, but as furcoat said, once the breese is in the 12 + knot range the shaw's bolt! As do most dinghys as well!

[Shaw-650]

two more
have made my stern vertical rather than the slope that the plans call for. When it come to fitting a lifting outboard bracket a sloping stern is a pain in the ass so a plumb stern it is. I might to away with the rear bar running from rudder to the wing as this will also make outboard handling a pain.

Scotty, we have mcGyver'd up a good system for the outboard that makes it less of a pain. The other Vic based Shaw has followed suit. The outboard slides backwards until there is enough clearance for it to tilt forward with the head missing the bar and then the whole lot slides into the boat. The motor tilts on the bracket rather than the tilt mechanism of the motor and we had to shorten up the mouthing bolts to get the outboard flat enough to fit under the bar.

[furcoat]

two more
have made my stern vertical rather than the slope that the plans call for. When it come to fitting a lifting outboard bracket a sloping stern is a pain in the ass so a plumb stern it is. I might to away with the rear bar running from rudder to the wing as this will also make outboard handling a pain.

Scotty, we have mcGyver'd up a good system for the outboard that makes it less of a pain. The other Vic based Shaw has followed suit. The outboard slides backwards until there is enough clearance for it to tilt forward with the head missing the bar and then the whole lot slides into the boat. The motor tilts on the bracket rather than the tilt mechanism of the motor and we had to shorten up the mouthing bolts to get the outboard flat enough to fit under the bar.

What outboard do you guys have?

[Shaw-650]

two more
have made my stern vertical rather than the slope that the plans call for. When it come to fitting a lifting outboard bracket a sloping stern is a pain in the ass so a plumb stern it is. I might to away with the rear bar running from rudder to the wing as this will also make outboard handling a pain.

Scotty, we have mcGyver'd up a good system for the outboard that makes it less of a pain. The other Vic based Shaw has followed suit. The outboard slides backwards until there is enough clearance for it to tilt forward with the head missing the bar and then the whole lot slides into the boat. The motor tilts on the bracket rather than the tilt mechanism of the motor and we had to shorten up the mouthing bolts to get the outboard flat enough to fit under the bar.

What outboard do you guys have?

Merc 3.3

[sea bogan]

no gay rear handle bar on the peow peow , these gussets in the corners are strong enough and plenty of room to make a nice folding out board bracket .

[Scottyk]

Scotty, we have mcGyver'd up a good system for the outboard that makes it less of a pain. The other Vic based Shaw has followed suit. The outboard slides backwards until there is enough clearance for it to tilt forward with the head missing the bar and then the whole lot slides into the boat. The motor tilts on the bracket rather than the tilt mechanism of the motor and we had to shorten up the mouthing bolts to get the outboard flat enough to fit under the bar.

would love to see some pics of that, unless it is patent pending!!?
I am still leaning towards no bar thoough, thanks for pic sea bogan

[Cheesy]

This one has a the bar moved forward slightly which could give you some more room, the bar is also used as a traveler, its a shame there are not more pictures of this boat, its one of the best finished as well as functionally detailed boats I have ever seen.... fast too

 100535226.jpg   141.7K   258 downloads

[(p)Irate]

So with all these various "bar options" it's not a super strict One Design then?

[Turkey Slapper]

So with all these various "bar options" it's not a super strict One Design then?

There is more one design sportboats out there closer than these things!

But funny things might happen!

The production ones might stand a chance!

[furcoat]

So with all these various "bar options" it's not a super strict One Design then?

There is more one design sportboats out there closer than these things!

But funny things might happen!

The production ones might stand a chance!

SMS ratings are in the same ballpark spread as T7's and e7's but none of these are anywhere close to melges or sb3's for OD (and probably none of us would have it any other way).

[Turkey Slapper]

depends what the class wants i suppose, and what is fast!

T7s are all class, as the class has a maximum sail size area, but for instance my boat has some of the smallest sails but is up there on average with the quickest somehow! But a class sms would have us all smashed! As with the shaws, there is only seconds in it, and the sailors know who won the day anyway!

Yawn!!! http://shaw650.com/s...happy-new-year/

[Shaw-650]

Scotty, we have mcGyver'd up a good system for the outboard that makes it less of a pain. The other Vic based Shaw has followed suit. The outboard slides backwards until there is enough clearance for it to tilt forward with the head missing the bar and then the whole lot slides into the boat. The motor tilts on the bracket rather than the tilt mechanism of the motor and we had to shorten up the mouthing bolts to get the outboard flat enough to fit under the bar.

would love to see some pics of that, unless it is patent pending!!?
I am still leaning towards no bar thoough, thanks for pic sea bogan

Our very flash engineering!

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[Frank]

The peow setup is way neater than that. And I bet a heap lighter. No other designs need/have the handle bar on the back, can't see why this boat is any different

[Scottyk]

Thanks for the pics of you engineering marvel!
That would be about the best way to deal with it and gets the outboard forward a bit too.
As far as being one design compliant, well I can always put a beam on if needed but it really won't change the performance of the boat at all so I am not too worried.
Out at work at the moment so its all thinking time for me, plenty of time for that
Scotty

[Scottyk]

need help from the Shaw owners or the production builders....
I seem to have lost the bit of the plans that details the height of the mast base off the deck. I know it has to clear the pole etc. but I would like it be spot on with the others for tuning etc.
A height measurement would be greatly appreciated from any one who can be bothered.

Progress is back on, nothing worthy of pics yet but cockpit flow should go on soon


Scotty

[Word Forward]

need help from the Shaw owners or the production builders....
I seem to have lost the bit of the plans that details the height of the mast base off the deck. I know it has to clear the pole etc. but I would like it be spot on with the others for tuning etc.
A height measurement would be greatly appreciated from any one who can be bothered.

Progress is back on, nothing worthy of pics yet but cockpit flow should go on soon


Scotty

Maybe just chase up Rob Shaw through his contats on http://www.shawyacht...om/SYDmenu.html???

[Rawhide]

This one has a the bar moved forward slightly which could give you some more room, the bar is also used as a traveler, its a shame there are not more pictures of this boat, its one of the best finished as well as functionally detailed boats I have ever seen.... fast too

 100535226.jpg   141.7K   258 downloads

Do the Shaws with traps sail with the same or bigger rig?

[furcoat]

need help from the Shaw owners or the production builders....
I seem to have lost the bit of the plans that details the height of the mast base off the deck. I know it has to clear the pole etc. but I would like it be spot on with the others for tuning etc.
A height measurement would be greatly appreciated from any one who can be bothered.

Progress is back on, nothing worthy of pics yet but cockpit flow should go on soon


Scotty

180mm off the floor to base of the mast. But our rig's a bit different so you may want to check with the production boats as well.

[GybeSet®]

the "650 turbo" (2-3 boats?) has a bigger rig, but they're not the boats in AUS or the OD production boat

in NZ you'll find some of the std. rig boats with traps sometimes, depending on the event

[furcoat]

the "650 turbo" (2-3 boats?) has a bigger rig, but they're not the boats in AUS or the OD production boat

in NZ you'll find some of the std. rig boats with traps sometimes, depending on the event

No traps under ASBA ....... yet.

Grandfather clause for magics.

[GybeSet®]

mate I think he's talking the NZ ones in cheesys link

[Cheesy]

This one has a the bar moved forward slightly which could give you some more room, the bar is also used as a traveler, its a shame there are not more pictures of this boat, its one of the best finished as well as functionally detailed boats I have ever seen.... fast too

 100535226.jpg   141.7K   258 downloads

Do the Shaws with traps sail with the same or bigger rig?

All of the ones south of Auckland have the standard rig although monkey business is in oz now. Badonkadonk has two wires, MB had three and I cant remember if Magic trick had two or three, two gives plenty of RM even over 30kts and boat speed was consistently over 7kts.

Edit: The only time we didnt use the traps on Badonkadonk were passage races that went out of the harbor, it is a lot drier and much more comfortable than hiking. Also with the big asso we didnt use them off the wind unless we had to come up over another boat, it ran pretty deep and gave the best VMG.

[mezaire]

Well seeing there was a party at Scotty's on Saturday night we thought we would take advantage of a few guys being available and get the Shaw out of the shed, pop it out of the mould, roll her and put it back in the shed!

As you can see it we used the deck with a block and tackle attached to control the roll.

A square frame was attached to share the load along the wings and give somethingto attach the block and tackle to.

Unfortunately it didn't quite fit so a trench had to be dug in the driveway!!

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[mezaire]

Not that it seems anyone cares, but hull without outside glass, fairing or paint came in at 133kg. Apparently production boats are 150kg for the painted hull and deck so she is in the ball park!

[GybeSet®]

mate its a work of Art

did you throw the pics up on ASBA facebook ?

[Scottyk]

will do now
Long boarding has begun, good times!
put it on the scales when lifting it up a little yesterday, about 130kgs so far. I am happy with that.
I'm off to get dusty now
Scotty

[steveromagnino]

weight sounds fine; the timber and glass boats are not noticeably far apart from eachother weight wise anyhow.

The production 108kg bulb is the way to go; makes the boat slightly more forgiving to sail and there are no drawbacks speed wise as it is a more modern shape.

Up here we are well underway with a new production boat series, encorporating the various improvements over time, and so it will be a race, let's see who finishes first ;-)

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[Scottyk]

mould looks good.
Can I ask what the tweaks are on the new moulds?

[steveromagnino]

Rigging screw slots instead of 3 holes. No gelcoat areas under eva deck panels to save weight. Stronger outboard bracket support area. Slight changes in the way bulkheads go in to reduce labour involved in secondary bonding.

End result should be similar in weight but slightly easier to build and easier to rig the boat up.

[MSA]

Has anyone changed the "Wing" leading edge profile.. Its a huge handbrake in waves and gusty conditions.

[steveromagnino]

If sailed pretty flat the wing should not be near the water except on maybe a tight 2 sail planing reach when pressed, heeling is slow, the shaws like being sailed flat.

[MSA]

I get that... Just saying in waves and gusty conditions, when keeping optimum heel is a little harder than usual the moment it digs, you are very very slow.

I have thought if i was ever to build one I would round the wing off a bit on the leading edge.. Minimal loss sailing. I dont think I have seen a crew on a wire needing the very front few inches.

[mezaire]

I've only sailed one a couple of times but the leading edge of the wing didn't seem like too much of a handbrake. Upwind the crew push pretty hard against the front of the wing so it's a bit of a play off.

Two things I would change on the production boat are;
Moving the vang control back along to the mainsheet trimmer position. When the shit hits the fan downhill and everyone has moved back in the bus, the vang is a reach for any of the crew.
I didn't like the job cleating position for the same reason. Not too bad in WL racing but for club racing when you are two sail reaching the crew has to hang onto the jib sheet all the time uncleated to play it. The cleat is also just in the wrong spot when you are climbing over the wing after jumping on the keel and leaves quite a mark on ones chest!

We have changed both these things on Scotty's boat. We have run the vang, cunningham and outhaul back along the cockpit to the mainsheet hand. The jib sheets lead across the board case to swiveling fairleads with cleats which means you can be sitting anywhere in the boat and still play the sheet.
We are also going to do away with the jib halyard finetune. With modern sails and sail shapes it just seemes a bit pointless and something you would very rarely adjust during a race.

Oh and finally (as you can see in the pics) Scotty has got rid of the rear bar. Personally I think this is the best mod of all as it makes it so much easier to mount a decent OB bracket and also climb back on board which is a bitch with the bar.

[itkiwi]

This is all good stuff if you're finishing a boat (even though it's a Leech :-) ). Any chance of some pictures of your layout? I'm assuming you are running the vang etc along the floor on the centreline?

I've only sailed one a couple of times but the leading edge of the wing didn't seem like too much of a handbrake. Upwind the crew push pretty hard against the front of the wing so it's a bit of a play off.

Two things I would change on the production boat are;
Moving the vang control back along to the mainsheet trimmer position. When the shit hits the fan downhill and everyone has moved back in the bus, the vang is a reach for any of the crew.
I didn't like the job cleating position for the same reason. Not too bad in WL racing but for club racing when you are two sail reaching the crew has to hang onto the jib sheet all the time uncleated to play it. The cleat is also just in the wrong spot when you are climbing over the wing after jumping on the keel and leaves quite a mark on ones chest!

We have changed both these things on Scotty's boat. We have run the vang, cunningham and outhaul back along the cockpit to the mainsheet hand. The jib sheets lead across the board case to swiveling fairleads with cleats which means you can be sitting anywhere in the boat and still play the sheet.
We are also going to do away with the jib halyard finetune. With modern sails and sail shapes it just seemes a bit pointless and something you would very rarely adjust during a race.

Oh and finally (as you can see in the pics) Scotty has got rid of the rear bar. Personally I think this is the best mod of all as it makes it so much easier to mount a decent OB bracket and also climb back on board which is a bitch with the bar.

[mezaire]

This is all good stuff if you're finishing a boat (even though it's a Leech :-) ). Any chance of some pictures of your layout? I'm assuming you are running the vang etc along the floor on the centreline?

I've only sailed one a couple of times but the leading edge of the wing didn't seem like too much of a handbrake. Upwind the crew push pretty hard against the front of the wing so it's a bit of a play off.

Two things I would change on the production boat are;
Moving the vang control back along to the mainsheet trimmer position. When the shit hits the fan downhill and everyone has moved back in the bus, the vang is a reach for any of the crew.
I didn't like the job cleating position for the same reason. Not too bad in WL racing but for club racing when you are two sail reaching the crew has to hang onto the jib sheet all the time uncleated to play it. The cleat is also just in the wrong spot when you are climbing over the wing after jumping on the keel and leaves quite a mark on ones chest!

We have changed both these things on Scotty's boat. We have run the vang, cunningham and outhaul back along the cockpit to the mainsheet hand. The jib sheets lead across the board case to swiveling fairleads with cleats which means you can be sitting anywhere in the boat and still play the sheet.
We are also going to do away with the jib halyard finetune. With modern sails and sail shapes it just seemes a bit pointless and something you would very rarely adjust during a race.

Oh and finally (as you can see in the pics) Scotty has got rid of the rear bar. Personally I think this is the best mod of all as it makes it so much easier to mount a decent OB bracket and also climb back on board which is a bitch with the bar.

No pics yet of the layout, as you can see from the pics above the boat has only just been rolled upside down for fairing.

The controls will run outboard from the mastbase, along the outside edge of the cockpit and then straight up to cam cleats.
The jib sheets have a track on the floor with a ratchet with becket. There will be no pulleys on the sail but intead a soft shackle with ally thimble for each sheet.

[lickety-split]

we use the jib fine tune regularly ben. Beware of leaving it off, the v cleat doesnt work though, we run the halyard through a small block on the end of the purchase and then half hitch it. Works really well.

[Sandgroper Yachting]

we use the jib fine tune regularly ben. Beware of leaving it off, the v cleat doesnt work though, we run the halyard through a small block on the end of the purchase and then half hitch it. Works really well.

Mez im with Lickety on this one, we use our fine tune all the time. Its really handy in the sub 10 knot range for changing gears.

[mezaire]

Thanks guys. Will probably just put a small 6:1 system with a hook and end the halyard (4mm SK90) with a loop and hook the purchase on.

[itkiwi]

OK, how about the mainsheet next - 4:1 block and becket at the top of the bridle, 2 single blocks at the boom end and rachet block1/2 way along the boom for off boom sheeting?

Spinnaker halyard - off the mast or down to the floor and along the sole to a block to somewhere behind the fin?

Thanks for the sharing.

Rob

[lickety-split]

2:1 off the boom
strong, high purchase vang.

[Ricky Bobby]

We have never had a problem with the wings MSA, i dare say your doing it wrong.... tight reaching they seem to stabelize the boat so you can drive it where you want!!
As for fine tune on the jib we use ours alot but changed from a cleat to a hook with a fixed length hallyard with slpiced loops.
And where a little scared to easy the vang down will it seems the rig may (or may not) fall out of the boat..... but with such long prods and big rudders you gotta do something pretty wrong to wipe-out .

[MSA]

I wasn't questioning the wing size. I was questioning the hydrodynamic flow of the entry when it hits a wave.

Basic Physics will tell you a brick will move slower through the water than a bullet.. Talking about making it the best it can be not just "as is".

[GybeSet®]

simple answer is they are not designed to be in contact with the water

'brickish' is just that little more encouragement to sail properly and keep them outta the tide

on the other hand, a trimaran ................................................................................

[Evo]

keep yer rig still. in the trimaran also

[Scottyk]

I'm not that worried about the shape of the front of the wing, rounded will do.
You don't see people having hydrodynamically shaped stauntion rails so when they dip in the water they won't drag as much, at least I haven't seen them.
Fairing continues on the boat, other things do as well like work, ho hum
Scotty

[Ricky Bobby]

this is very true, keep the rig in the air and it wont be a problem

[sea bogan]

if your sailing with the wing in the water you are doin something wrong because ours never touch the water or even get close

[facthunt]

if your sailing with the wing in the water you are doin something wrong because ours never touch the water or even get close

they were in the water in the southport race, were you sitting on the wrong side?

[Scottyk]

Been a while but things have progressed a little
Fairing is maybe 80% done on the hull and then paint and the flip.
I still have all the cnc cut mould stations. They are good for another boat if anybody wants them.
Make me an offer
Scotty

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