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Racing in Racine


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#1 Surf City Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 12:47 AM

Welcome to our OTWA coverage of the 2010 F18 North American Champs. Team Surf City has been here since Thursday, enjoying the hospitality of the locals and the Racine YC. Clean will be here sometime Sunday, and it will be a game-on convergence where we'll be tag-teaming the coverage live from on the water. 53 F18s are currently signed up and 7 F16s, 7 I20s, and 4 F17s for the open class. We've been getting into the swing of the Racine way of life, where their motto rings true, "Life is Good!"

Photos HERE!

Teams have been rigging, tuning and repairing for the past 4 days, and several teams raced in the RYCs weekend regatta.
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We got sick of walking around the regatta site, so we went to the local second hand store and scored some bikes for less than $3. Mine's a bit small.

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Apparently, guys surf up here:

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We're just gearing up here, so stand by...

#2 Surf City Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 01:09 AM

My favorite story so far is Uncle JC's Youth team. Team Towhead is three blond dudes of the ripe old age of around 11 racing on an F16. Due to its lower hull volume and smaller sail plan the F16 lends itself perfectly to the youth program. We can all agree that it's important to get younger people on the water and JCs taking it to the next level. Do kids really want to sail bathtubs with sheets for sails. No way! Take a look at the video games that they play, fast paced, cool graphics, etc, etc. Catamarans fit the bill nicely, they're cool and fast.

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JC's good with the kids, a natural! Teaching knots:

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My bro, Geoff Sobering is the official event photog:
More pics HERE!

#3 Surf City Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 01:27 AM

Oh, and the last thing for the night. JC has inadvertently smitten one of the bartenders at the RYC with his, "beautiful brown eyes." Hopefully that equates to me getting some free rum somehow, I haven't worked out the details quite yet.

I've talked to about a hundred anarchists since I've been here in Racine. WTF are you? Jump in!

#4 Surf City Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 01:55 AM

You Can’t blame the Youths

Uncle JC Spreads the Love

The F18 North Americans here in Racine, WI is gaining speed. Everyone is making last minute adjustments, polishing boards, measuring sails and weighing boats… typical regatta prep. The Racine YC is ready and everyone here has been bending over backwards to make sure everything is set for Clean and I to live feed from the racecourse.

While cruising around, meeting everyone and getting the inside scoop on the conditions and the intricacies of Lake Michigan, I ran across JC and the 3 young blond dudes of Team Towhead. JC has been placed in charge of the Viper youth sailing program, and from watching him with the kids, he’s a natural! He’s patient, and when it comes to cat sailing, he knows it well. Daniel Hearn, the Catamaran Racing Association of Wisconsin (CRAW), Director of Junior Sailing agrees, “He’s the cool teacher that you want to pay attention to because he’s cool.” CRAW and JCs programs aren’t just ‘youth’ sailing, these is family sailing, the parents are involved.

CRAW has four Open Bics that it drags around to every regatta with the express purpose of getting youth on the water, and Daniel is the guy in charge of making sure the boats are ready to go. “We are a case study for the book “Saving Sailing”, and the book was more a confirmation of what we were already doing than instruction on how to do It.” adds Daniel. This is the 3rd year of the Bic program and CRAW has seen a spike in participation. Daniel Comments, “We’ve attracted people that say, ‘oh I can bring my kid?’ People invite their friends, and all of the sudden we have more interested people.”

CRAW also owns a RIB that they use for a chase boat and they fund the entire program through raffles, regatta sponsorship, and dues. One thing that has helped this Youth Sailing Program reach new heights is the fact that they have a dedicated core of serious volunteers. They don’t waste money on trophies for every event, they keep score and offer trophies at the end of the season. The several hundred dollars that they save goes directly into the youth sailing program.

What about a pro and outstanding sailor like JC coaching? Surely anyone that races a sailboat could benefit from having a one-on-one, personalized coaching session from this guy. Daniel laughs, “I think the parents are jealous that the kids are getting coaching from JC.”

Mischa Heemskerk, world-champion catamaran sailor from the Netherlands, is running a similar program based around the Hobie 16 with a kite. “Through our Hobie Cat dealer in the Netherlands, we organized several sponsors so we can have ten Hobie 16s sailing, We’ve got 20 kids that we have trained for 3 years in the program. At the Hobie Europeans in Germany, which is very competitive, I was coaching them for the last 5 days, we got a gold and 2 bronze medals.”

No matter how good the youth program it boils down to the motivation of the parents, and Mischa’s inspiration to get into catamarans racing was his father. “I started as a youth myself at the age of 8, when I sailed with my father. In those days it was normal to sail with your father.” Mischa’s goal is to coach the kids the right way to sail a cat from the getgo, but he’s stoked to , “…see the program advance, the learning curve of the sailors and most of all the excitement of the kids.”

Carrie Howe, crewmember of US Olympic Yingling team, and Mischa’s Crew has sailed everything. She’s an outstanding sailor that can hold her own on anything that floats. She has worked with youth sailing aboard Extreme 40 Catamarans and adds,” We tried windsurfing a bit, but with cats you can ride along with the kids, you can take the tiller back if you need to. I learned cat sailing on the extreme 40, and there’s plenty of room if someone needs to take this tiller” JC adds, “We had an extreme 40 at an Opti Event and we took out all the kids, their parents, and the race committee, and just seeing the smiles on those kids faces was an incredible experience.”

Even with the smaller cats like the Hobe 16 or F16, there’s plenty of room for the coach to sail with the students. The program that Carie, Mischa and JC have worked with aboard the Extreme 40s has spread their love of fast sailing to tons of kids. And think about it, sailing with one of these top sailors as your own personal coach aboard an incredible machine like an extreme 40? Sounds pretty good to me.

Carrie gets excited when talking about the 40 program, “The Extreme 40 platform we’ve taken over 300 kids sailing. Mischa’s steering so it’s safe. We take eight kids at a time, and once they sail it; they sail Optis usually, they’re like ‘this is the cool boat.’”

Fine examples of people that are getting out there an working for the good of sailing. Good on ya all.


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This is just the beginning of our coverage here in Racine. Stand by for more tidbits among the mayhem.

#5 Helen

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 06:53 AM

Well done Surf City Racing. Great write up, and fabulous photos of the kids in sailing. A BIG thankyou from me and all those who cannot be there.

Have a fun week on the water..... and those bikes!!!

Cheers
Helen

#6 US-5156

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 02:56 PM

Sunday started gray, rainy, and with no wind.

The radar showed an east-west line of crud moving down from the north.

As the morning wore on the eastern end of the line broke up nicely and Racine didn't see any really nasty weather (just light rain).

The sky is clearing now, the rain has stopped, and the wind at the yacht-club's anemometer is showing a solid 12 kn.

BTW, here's a link to my photos without the extra HTML in Surf City's post: http://moving-target...os.com/2010RCC/

#7 Surf City Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 03:49 PM

007 buoy reading 21kts SW. YC reading is puffing to 20. Off and on showers, mostly drying out.

Had a great breakfast at the Eagles Club. Won a hundred bucks playing with what the locals call "cardboard crack." Bought the place a round at 8am. My lucky day!

The local club's weekend regatta is under AP until the weather settles.

Last night CRAW showed it's style! The guitars came out, and Trey Brown rocked the house until the wee hours. Welcome party is tonight.

#8 US-5156

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 04:06 PM

Looking better and better...

There are some concerns that really big wind (30+ kn) is heading our way, so no sails are up (yet).

Currently, the RYC meter is saying 20-26 kn.

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#9 Surf City Racing

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 08:16 PM

Here's the test feed. Live from the beach in Racine, WI.


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#10 US-5156

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 04:07 AM

More photos from Sunday's sailing at: http://moving-target...os.com/2010RCC/

#11 Surf City Racing

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:20 PM

Carnage!

Last night, a powerful T-storm rolled through piping the wind up to 54 knots at 4:30 am, and flipping several boats on the beach. Surprisingly, very few boats sustained major damage. Still assessing...

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In true Corinthian fashion, the whole crew stepped up to unweave the rigs and get things back to normal.

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#12 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:24 PM

Nicely done, boys. Just shaking off those triple vodkas from last night, fell asleep face first on my computer with pizza all over the floor. Huhwhat?

Pretty fugly out there right now, starting to remind me why I moved South. But this is one hell of a gorgeous spot, who knew. Hopefully it will clear up, and hopefully the damage to the boats from last night will be minimal.

#13 Surf City Racing

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 12:35 PM

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As far as I saw, no rigs punched glass. This boat sailed under tramp alone for several feet.

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#14 Surf City Racing

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 01:01 PM

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#15 Surf City Racing

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 02:24 PM

Just had a the skipper's meeting. The sky is clearing a bit, but it still looks threatening. We're getting our camera gear ready to hit the water on our pimp-daddy, 600HP beast. Racine is hooking us up.

#16 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 03:22 PM

Delays with big fogbank on the course as we wire up the official OTWA boat.

#17 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 04:46 PM

Going live in two minutes, check it!

Watch live video from onthewateranarchy on Justin.tv

#18 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:04 PM

Live now, with 50-odd people watching the boats coming off the beach. Mischa and Carrie back on the beach to fix something. Good times in WI.

#19 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 05:31 PM

Five minute warning

#20 atefooterz

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:32 PM

Some great coverage of trcky conditions. Just a reminder that OTA should get some sexy ORIGINAL music to play otherwise royalties & a very agressive music industry, will add to the running costs of public broadcast ;)

#21 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:44 PM

Race 1 complete. First finishers, in order:

69
15
60
36
48
28

#22 AClass USA 230

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:56 PM

Going live in two minutes, check it!


Great stuff, enjoying it. Hope the conditions improve!

#23 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:59 PM

Full race 1 video



Watch live video from onthewateranarchy on Justin.tv

#24 MER

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:02 PM

A few shots from our arrival at the Racine Yacht Club. Thanks for the great welcome, y'all!

Race One Photos coming soon.

#25 F-18 5150

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:10 PM

Anyone have access to which boat # is which team?

#26 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:13 PM

Rolling over to course B to check in on the Nacra 20s and Vipers.

#27 MER

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:18 PM

photos from race one. Enjoy these pics from the first race while I take a break...getting real sea sick from looking at my computer for too long...

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#28 maritmesailski

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:31 PM

Anyone have access to which boat # is which team?


Unofficial, some of the ones I have from the video and from my own knowledge (small list):
28 Chris Prentice
04 Robbie Danniels
60 John Williams
11 Taylor Reis
33 Bob Merrick
02 Gary Chu
58 Jay Foss
66 Matt Johnson
53 JC

Please correct / add

#29 MER

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 07:43 PM

Still in postponement...a few more shots from Race One.

#30 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:12 PM

This isnt handicap racing. CRAW needs to get with the program and get results up faster than this. If they cant do it, maybe they should give L_Z a call...

MS

#31 catslr

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:44 PM

Can anyone find the results???

#32 F18 VB

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 08:57 PM

Give it some time. A lot of the people that are helping to run the regatta and the website are competitors. They probably need some time to put their boats away and have a beer or two.

#33 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:09 PM

We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.

We'll work on getting them online quickly tomorrow.

Lighten up Francis(es). We got one race off today in very marginal conditions.

#34 F-18 5150

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 10:36 PM


Anyone have access to which boat # is which team?


Unofficial, some of the ones I have from the video and from my own knowledge (small list):
28 Chris Prentice
04 Robbie Danniels
60 John Williams
11 Taylor Reis
33 Bob Merrick
02 Gary Chu
58 Jay Foss
66 Matt Johnson
53 JC

Please correct / add

63 Jason Moore / Jake Sailor
69 Mischa H / Carrie Howe

#35 Tcatman

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:04 PM

We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.

We'll work on getting them online quickly tomorrow.

Lighten up Francis(es). We got one race off today in very marginal conditions.

Just a wild ass guess

the Web site guru.. is not the scorekeeper... So,... he never thought to turn the keys to the website over to the scorekeeper. Now it's a scramble to figure out what to do now..... don't ask me how I know!

#36 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:14 PM

Also, the Dude told me they'd have a bow number list up tonight...

#37 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:16 PM

We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.

We'll work on getting them online quickly tomorrow.

Lighten up Francis(es). We got one race off today in very marginal conditions.


If you want one of my aircards to score from the water, you can have it. Call me.

#38 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 11:49 PM

Lighten up Francis(es). We got one race off today in very marginal conditions.


Nah I for one wont be lightening up. Its a North American Championships with LIVE on the water coverage and it takes hours to post one-design scores. In this day and age that is a joke. If only there were a turn key scoring system that let you post scores quickly and easily to the web. If only...

I guess if the sponsors dont give a shit about people paying attention from their desks, posting result hours after the last boat finishes will be just fine.

Or not...
MS

#39 Tcatman

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:15 AM


Lighten up Francis(es). We got one race off today in very marginal conditions.


Nah I for one wont be lightening up. Its a North American Championships with LIVE on the water coverage and it takes hours to post one-design scores. In this day and age that is a joke. If only there were a turn key scoring system that let you post scores quickly and easily to the web. If only...

I guess if the sponsors dont give a shit about people paying attention from their desks, posting result hours after the last boat finishes will be just fine.

Or not...
MS

ah... stop your shilling.... the site you refer to is the most expensive service of several good services available.... the club saved some cash on the merchant fees and did their own on line registration. The scoring limitation is the hardware and people ware on the water... certainly not the software scoring package. Besides, they are running two circles and integrating those results will take some time on the beach unless they have a lot of hardware and people to manage the integration. If you haven't done it... you have no idea what's involved!

#40 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:21 AM

We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.


If only there was a way to communicate without actually being in the same room. I think I will invent it. I am going to start with two soup cans and a big ball of string...

This is basic stuff, that I have done more times than I care to count. You could easily call the results in via cell phone or radio well in advance of the RC boat hitting the dock. The word "Provisional" does wonders.

Or not...
MS

#41 Jake

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:41 AM

ah... stop your shilling.... the site you refer to is the most expensive service of several good services available.... the club saved some cash on the merchant fees and did their own on line registration. The scoring limitation is the hardware and people ware on the water... certainly not the software scoring package. Besides, they are running two circles and integrating those results will take some time on the beach unless they have a lot of hardware and people to manage the integration. If you haven't done it... you have no idea what's involved!


Sailwave (free software) can publish a paste and copy HTML file that would work great with the Blog the event has setup.

#42 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:49 AM


ah... stop your shilling.... the site you refer to is the most expensive service of several good services available.... the club saved some cash on the merchant fees and did their own on line registration. The scoring limitation is the hardware and people ware on the water... certainly not the software scoring package. Besides, they are running two circles and integrating those results will take some time on the beach unless they have a lot of hardware and people to manage the integration. If you haven't done it... you have no idea what's involved!


Sailwave (free software) can publish a paste and copy HTML file that would work great with the Blog the event has setup.


Yep.

#43 007

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:14 AM

Anyone have access to which boat # is which team?


This should be the page, if I copied and pasted it correctly:
http://crawsailing.n...e2010/attending

#44 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:11 AM

It's hard to get data around here but we pulled the results from the top.









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#45 Great_lakes_racer

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:15 AM

I can't contribute much to this(seeing as I'm not a multi guy) however I can say that Lake michigan has some great racing, including racine, i look forward to heading over there next week for the S27.9 class championships.

#46 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:19 AM

No offence SCR, but results available 6.5 hours after they were handed to the RC, for 1 completed race, and more than 7 hours after the race ended is a JOKE!!

Just tell us up front if that is what we are in for tomorrow and I wont bother paying attention.

Live coverage is wasted if it lacks timely posting of the results.

@ Clean - maybe you can explain the way this should work as I am sure I am on ignore by now.

MS

#47 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:23 AM

Clean here, Squirrel.

I'm working on it. If we have to, we'll just take them down ourselves. OK?

#48 Jake

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 03:03 AM

Surf City, by chance might you have any N20 results?

#49 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 03:17 AM

Surf City, by chance might you have any N20 results?


Jake, We have no data from the 20 course. Someone is "certifying" the results before they give it to me. We're doing our best. Usually RO posts results on their site.

#50 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:13 AM


We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.


If only there was a way to communicate without actually being in the same room. I think I will invent it. I am going to start with two soup cans and a big ball of string...

This is basic stuff, that I have done more times than I care to count. You could easily call the results in via cell phone or radio well in advance of the RC boat hitting the dock. The word "Provisional" does wonders.

Or not...
MS


Now you're pissing me off, Francis. I There's one problem with your smart-ass response.

You gotta have the people to communicate on phone. Nobody - I mean nobody is on the beach or club other than the beach captain - and sand/computers don't play well together. Everybody else is out on the water - racing, spectating, judging and running the courses.

The first day of an event is always a struggle and the priority is always making sure the races go off well.

That being said, going forward, we should have results up fairly promptly - quickly enough even to satisfy your grumpy ass.

#51 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 10:45 AM

Squirrel, I get your point, but perhaps I would not be as agressive in making your point, just me though.

I agree, a web site update from the RC boat is pretty much standard these days and fairly straightforward, glad to hear Clean et al are looking for ways to HELP with the problem and provide RC a way to do so. Maybe a separate thread with only results, Clean could just get the file from RC and post for them (or show them how themselves).

Now, for sailing a race in those conditions... that is a different argument....

-P




We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.


If only there was a way to communicate without actually being in the same room. I think I will invent it. I am going to start with two soup cans and a big ball of string...

This is basic stuff, that I have done more times than I care to count. You could easily call the results in via cell phone or radio well in advance of the RC boat hitting the dock. The word "Provisional" does wonders.

Or not...
MS


Now you're pissing me off, Francis. I There's one problem with your smart-ass response.

You gotta have the people to communicate on phone. Nobody - I mean nobody is on the beach or club other than the beach captain - and sand/computers don't play well together. Everybody else is out on the water - racing, spectating, judging and running the courses.

The first day of an event is always a struggle and the priority is always making sure the races go off well.

That being said, going forward, we should have results up fairly promptly - quickly enough even to satisfy your grumpy ass.



#52 catslr

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 11:32 AM

Now that we know the bow numbers for the different crews (thanks SCR for posting results!) we should be able to figure out in real time who the top boats are if Mr. Clean and his friends call out the bow numbers as they come across the finish? It is AWESOME watching the racing in real time!!!

#53 Dan DeLave

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 11:40 AM

The conditions were tough and Matt Bounds did a nice job getting us on the course and changing the marks as meeded...kudos. Eileen and I did really well and feel fantastic after getting a fourth in the first race. Misha 1st, Argentia 2nd, Dennis Key (JW) 3rd.

This morning, we are going to a weather and tide seminar today to find out more about the conditions we are about to encounter.

Later,
Dan DeLave
Boat#48

#54 Jake

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 11:47 AM

I was emailed this file by a friend...here's the 20, 16, and 17 results from yesterday:

Attached Files



#55 #129

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:00 PM

I was emailed this file by a friend...here's the 20, 16, and 17 results from yesterday:


It looks like they have have gotten the results on the event website now. Here is the link:

http://crawsailing.n...ine2010/results

I've also asked them to put up the crew weights and list if anyone is using the small sailplan.

#56 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:26 PM

Today, We'll call bow numbers and try to get over to the 20/16 course. It's foggy, we'll see what happens.

Edit: Just heard that it's only supposed to blow 6kts. I sure hope not.

#57 Tcatman

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:46 PM

Squirrel, I get your point, but perhaps I would not be as agressive in making your point, just me though.

I agree, a web site update from the RC boat is pretty much standard these days and fairly straightforward, glad to hear Clean et al are looking for ways to HELP with the problem and provide RC a way to do so. Maybe a separate thread with only results, Clean could just get the file from RC and post for them (or show them how themselves).

Now, for sailing a race in those conditions... that is a different argument....

-P





We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.


If only there was a way to communicate without actually being in the same room. I think I will invent it. I am going to start with two soup cans and a big ball of string...

This is basic stuff, that I have done more times than I care to count. You could easily call the results in via cell phone or radio well in advance of the RC boat hitting the dock. The word "Provisional" does wonders.

Or not...
MS


Now you're pissing me off, Francis. I There's one problem with your smart-ass response.

You gotta have the people to communicate on phone. Nobody - I mean nobody is on the beach or club other than the beach captain - and sand/computers don't play well together. Everybody else is out on the water - racing, spectating, judging and running the courses.

The first day of an event is always a struggle and the priority is always making sure the races go off well.

That being said, going forward, we should have results up fairly promptly - quickly enough even to satisfy your grumpy ass.

Maritime, squirrel... I am sure the RC would be happy to oblige... They could phone you the results while you are at work and have you enter them into the scoring program of your choice.. and then post them ASAP to your website. Call them if you think it is pretty much standard and you got it covered for them.

Fact of life... if you volunteer for a regatta... the last place you want to be is on the beach manning a computer.

Fact of life... the competitors care more about having the RC do a perfect job of running the race rather then dealing with results for those that are not there.

Bottom line... it's great when they have the people to do it all... they don't.
If you want to bitch... bitch to the media people for NOT getting the first thing sorted out about reporting on a race they watched... aka what the finish order was... they had lots of people out there.

#58 flatlander

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:48 PM

Today, We'll call bow numbers and try to get over to the 20/16 course. It's foggy, we'll see what happens.Edit: Just heard that it's only supposed to blow 6kts. I sure hope not.

6 is 20% more than 5 (remember Havasu) Carry on with the great coverage!

#59 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:55 PM


Today, We'll call bow numbers and try to get over to the 20/16 course. It's foggy, we'll see what happens.Edit: Just heard that it's only supposed to blow 6kts. I sure hope not.

6 is 20% more than 5 (remember Havasu) Carry on with the great coverage!


Thanks Flat. So true. Havasu was a brutal.

Bitching at the media guys won't go that far. If we can't get the data and we weren't on the 20/16 course the best thing we could do is make it up. Now we know how it works around here, and we'll put more effort in letting you know how things pan out for the racers.

#60 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:29 PM

Gotcha Tcat, wasn't trying to bitch, sorry it came across that way, at the end of the day I'm stuck at my desk while my skipper is out racing, just want to know more! ;-)

I know volunteers are the key to all sporting events, and they only have so much they can do, just wanted to voice my thoughts on how regattas can really win big if they get results up online asap.



Squirrel, I get your point, but perhaps I would not be as agressive in making your point, just me though.

I agree, a web site update from the RC boat is pretty much standard these days and fairly straightforward, glad to hear Clean et al are looking for ways to HELP with the problem and provide RC a way to do so. Maybe a separate thread with only results, Clean could just get the file from RC and post for them (or show them how themselves).

Now, for sailing a race in those conditions... that is a different argument....

-P





We had the results done on the Bravo Course (F18) signal boat and delivered them to the scorer as soon as we hit the dock at 1545 local time.


If only there was a way to communicate without actually being in the same room. I think I will invent it. I am going to start with two soup cans and a big ball of string...

This is basic stuff, that I have done more times than I care to count. You could easily call the results in via cell phone or radio well in advance of the RC boat hitting the dock. The word "Provisional" does wonders.

Or not...
MS


Now you're pissing me off, Francis. I There's one problem with your smart-ass response.

You gotta have the people to communicate on phone. Nobody - I mean nobody is on the beach or club other than the beach captain - and sand/computers don't play well together. Everybody else is out on the water - racing, spectating, judging and running the courses.

The first day of an event is always a struggle and the priority is always making sure the races go off well.

That being said, going forward, we should have results up fairly promptly - quickly enough even to satisfy your grumpy ass.

Maritime, squirrel... I am sure the RC would be happy to oblige... They could phone you the results while you are at work and have you enter them into the scoring program of your choice.. and then post them ASAP to your website. Call them if you think it is pretty much standard and you got it covered for them.

Fact of life... if you volunteer for a regatta... the last place you want to be is on the beach manning a computer.

Fact of life... the competitors care more about having the RC do a perfect job of running the race rather then dealing with results for those that are not there.

Bottom line... it's great when they have the people to do it all... they don't.
If you want to bitch... bitch to the media people for NOT getting the first thing sorted out about reporting on a race they watched... aka what the finish order was... they had lots of people out there.



#61 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:31 PM

Ouch, 6 knots max is going to suck, I almost feel F18s should have a minimum required to race (if they don't already) as a puff in zero wind conditions can be very random and really change up the results. IMO makes it a bit more random if you do well or not.


Today, We'll call bow numbers and try to get over to the 20/16 course. It's foggy, we'll see what happens.Edit: Just heard that it's only supposed to blow 6kts. I sure hope not.

6 is 20% more than 5 (remember Havasu) Carry on with the great coverage!



#62 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 01:41 PM


If you want to bitch... bitch to the media people for NOT getting the first thing sorted out about reporting on a race they watched... aka what the finish order was... they had lots of people out there.


Yes, bitch at us. We're used to it.

#63 US-5156

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:19 PM

If you're willing to sort through the (considerable) chaff for some wheat, I've posted my photos from Monday:
http://moving-target...om/2010RCC/Mon/

The main page (with wheat/chaff from Saturday and Sunday) is at: http://moving-target...tos.com/2010RCC

#64 MauganNacra20

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:31 PM

6 knots is PLENTY of wind for high performance catamarans to sail in.

As long as its not puffy and shifty, 6 knots will give you a good fair race.

#65 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:33 PM

6 knots is PLENTY of wind for high performance catamarans to sail in.

As long as its not puffy and shifty, 6 knots will give you a good fair race.


Agree, if it is not puffy, but a forecast that says 6 knots max scares me as it usually means something along 3 -4 with puffs to 6, of course, local environment depending.

#66 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:46 PM

6 knots is PLENTY of wind for high performance catamarans to sail in.

As long as its not puffy and shifty, 6 knots will give you a good fair race.


Absolutely! It's funner to watch in 15 to 20 though.

Just had a meeting under the Nacra tent on the beach. PRO Bounds talked about the racing schedule, and we're in a holding pattern until the fog clears and a hint of breeze fires up. The F18 class is meeting in the club, right now...

Posted Image

Foggy! No wind.

Posted Image

Posted Image

#67 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:49 PM

Contested discussion re the F18 scoring. Can U.S. teams get points for N.A. international regattas?

I need to make an apology for an error that I keep making. Dennis Key is skipper and Jdub is crew, not the other way around. Did that in SF too.

One of the organizers. Tons of work goes into regattas, and CRAW has a seriously dedicated crew.

Posted Image

#68 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:53 PM

If you're willing to sort through the (considerable) chaff for some wheat, I've posted my photos from Monday:
http://moving-target...om/2010RCC/Mon/

The main page (with wheat/chaff from Saturday and Sunday) is at: http://moving-target...tos.com/2010RCC


That is a lot of photos, Geoff. You need to do a little culling before uploading, methinks, but nice work!

For the rest of you, big fog on the course again, so I just ordered the "Sunshine Breakfast" from room service. Bagel, eggs, bacon, OJ, and working on the Little AC website for our canadian pals. Keep updated here or on Facebook or whatever. We'll let you know when we get an update.

#69 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:55 PM

Contested discussion re the F18 scoring. Can U.S. teams get points for N.A. international regattas?



Why would that be a discussion? Can US teams get points for Worlds?

#70 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 02:57 PM

Might as well stay there, Clean. Talk of going to the liquor store...

#71 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 03:00 PM


Contested discussion re the F18 scoring. Can U.S. teams get points for N.A. international regattas?



Why would that be a discussion? Can US teams get points for Worlds?


Can guys like JC and Greg and Jacques get NAF 18 points for attending Euro events? Guess that's the issue. They tabled discussion...

Moved on to 2.5mm synthetic trap wires...
What say you SS wire or synthetic?

Allow VMG GPS devices?


Sun's poking through.

#72 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 03:49 PM

Synthetic, if only for safety reasons, people can carry knifes to cut themselves free (their are safe knife specifically for this already), let us not repeat the Tornado crew lost of years back...

GPS, yes, but only allow speed and heading, no fixed position referencing (i.e pinging ends of line, etc), VMG is a grey area, I would disallow. Current devices that do more then heading and speed must be "locked down" (i.e be able to turn off outlawed functions, which you can do with things like the SP-1).





Contested discussion re the F18 scoring. Can U.S. teams get points for N.A. international regattas?



Why would that be a discussion? Can US teams get points for Worlds?


Can guys like JC and Greg and Jacques get NAF 18 points for attending Euro events? Guess that's the issue. They tabled discussion...

Moved on to 2.5mm synthetic trap wires...
What say you SS wire or synthetic?

Allow VMG GPS devices?


Sun's poking through.



#73 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 03:59 PM

Long discussion on GPS devices...

Canadians," I don't give a shit what information from it you have on the boat, it won't help."

"Can't have a smart phone on a boat."

JDub, "Does the class want time and heading?" 34 yes.

"...and speed" 5 yes

"That's the movement of the class."



PRO Bounds and I are heading out on a Whaler to check the course.

#74 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:03 PM

What Canadians... I'm one of them (supposedly working this week ;-)

Let me tell you, if you allow "pinging" of start line it would change things, from there you could foresee layline info (once you have pinged the windward mark). Speed / Heading = good, anything else, slippery slope... Anyone who has sailed using deckman on a bigger boat knows what I'm talking about.

Long discussion on GPS devices...

Canadians," I don't give a shit what information from it you have on the boat, it won't help."

"Can't have a smart phone on a boat."

JDub, "Does the class want time and heading?" 34 yes.

"...and speed" 5 yes

"That's the movement of the class."



PRO Bounds and I are heading out on a Whaler to check the course.



#75 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:08 PM

What Canadians... I'm one of them (supposedly working this week ;-)

Let me tell you, if you allow "pinging" of start line it would change things, from there you could foresee layline info (once you have pinged the windward mark). Speed / Heading = good, anything else, slippery slope... Anyone who has sailed using deckman on a bigger boat knows what I'm talking about.


That shit's all legal in Melges 24, and no one uses Deckman. Even the top team in the world got rid of all their big diplays and now run just a 600$ Rockbox, and they've got a 12 point lead at Worlds. When you can have a dedicated navigator doing nothing else but playing with boxes, then Deckman style solutions are great. Not gonna happen in an F-18 or sportboat.

#76 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:13 PM


What Canadians... I'm one of them (supposedly working this week ;-)

Let me tell you, if you allow "pinging" of start line it would change things, from there you could foresee layline info (once you have pinged the windward mark). Speed / Heading = good, anything else, slippery slope... Anyone who has sailed using deckman on a bigger boat knows what I'm talking about.


That shit's all legal in Melges 24, and no one uses Deckman. Even the top team in the world got rid of all their big diplays and now run just a 600$ Rockbox, and they've got a 12 point lead at Worlds. When you can have a dedicated navigator doing nothing else but playing with boxes, then Deckman style solutions are great. Not gonna happen in an F-18 or sportboat.


One dude was actually suggesting that.

#77 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:17 PM

How's it look down there J?

I think we're going to roll down shortly. Update?

#78 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:22 PM

Agree Clean, didn't mean to imply deckman would be used (or even could be), just an example of what exists and could be easily be written into a $600 box (or $3 iPhone app, not that I have done that, yet...). Generally I'm for anything, just showing what can happen down the road if GPS is allowed unrestricted. It wouldn't be that hard to write something into a rockbox or velocitek that gives you count down timers to laylines, etc (i.e no need for a navigator).

Again, I truly believe that all the toys in the world don't make you win, just that the fleet has to be aware of what door they might be opening if not careful.

GPS is the future, just need to be careful about it. IMO


What Canadians... I'm one of them (supposedly working this week ;-)

Let me tell you, if you allow "pinging" of start line it would change things, from there you could foresee layline info (once you have pinged the windward mark). Speed / Heading = good, anything else, slippery slope... Anyone who has sailed using deckman on a bigger boat knows what I'm talking about.


That shit's all legal in Melges 24, and no one uses Deckman. Even the top team in the world got rid of all their big diplays and now run just a 600$ Rockbox, and they've got a 12 point lead at Worlds. When you can have a dedicated navigator doing nothing else but playing with boxes, then Deckman style solutions are great. Not gonna happen in an F-18 or sportboat.



#79 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:24 PM

Here's a little entertainment while we wait:



#80 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:29 PM

Agree Clean, didn't mean to imply deckman would be used (or even could be), just an example of what exists and could be easily be written into a $600 box (or $3 iPhone app, not that I have done that, yet...). Generally I'm for anything, just showing what can happen down the road if GPS is allowed unrestricted. It wouldn't be that hard to write something into a rockbox or velocitek that gives you count down timers to laylines, etc (i.e no need for a navigator).

Again, I truly believe that all the toys in the world don't make you win, just that the fleet has to be aware of what door they might be opening if not careful.

GPS is the future, just need to be careful about it. IMO



Pinging is sweet, and is already in the 600$ Rockbox as well as the $600 Velocitek. Pretty much everything else you'd want is in there too, the problem is being able to use it during a fast-paced 35 minute race. While pinging is useful, it's never going to be the end-all be-all for starts (swinging RC boat will OCS you no matter what your GPS says), but it is a great tool for big fleet starts with midline sag. But as useful as that is, a time-to-layline tool is just as useless; unless you happen to be sailing in a place with perfect wind that just does not shift. And let me know where that place is, because I haven't seen it yet!

As far as I understand it, electronics restrictions have always been about cost. Detailed testing and other fleets have already revealed that a small boat is going to get the most advantage out of a Rockbox, Velocitek, or Nauteek, or even some of the GPS-based iPhone apps. These are extremely low-cost solutions, less than the cost of a jib, so why would there be any objection to them?

#81 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:33 PM

Fair enough


Agree Clean, didn't mean to imply deckman would be used (or even could be), just an example of what exists and could be easily be written into a $600 box (or $3 iPhone app, not that I have done that, yet...). Generally I'm for anything, just showing what can happen down the road if GPS is allowed unrestricted. It wouldn't be that hard to write something into a rockbox or velocitek that gives you count down timers to laylines, etc (i.e no need for a navigator).

Again, I truly believe that all the toys in the world don't make you win, just that the fleet has to be aware of what door they might be opening if not careful.

GPS is the future, just need to be careful about it. IMO



Pinging is sweet, and is already in the 600$ Rockbox as well as the $600 Velocitek. Pretty much everything else you'd want is in there too, the problem is being able to use it during a fast-paced 35 minute race. While pinging is useful, it's never going to be the end-all be-all for starts (swinging RC boat will OCS you no matter what your GPS says), but it is a great tool for big fleet starts with midline sag. But as useful as that is, a time-to-layline tool is just as useless; unless you happen to be sailing in a place with perfect wind that just does not shift. And let me know where that place is, because I haven't seen it yet!

As far as I understand it, electronics restrictions have always been about cost. Detailed testing and other fleets have already revealed that a small boat is going to get the most advantage out of a Rockbox, Velocitek, or Nauteek, or even some of the GPS-based iPhone apps. These are extremely low-cost solutions, less than the cost of a jib, so why would there be any objection to them?



#82 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

Here is the "parking linK" that the F18 RC will be posting scores as soon as they're done (from the RC boat)

F18 Results - updated continuously

If you get an error when the page loads, just refresh.

I've also wandered the beach and updated all the boat types.

I don't think anyone is sailing with the small sail plan, but I'm not 100% sure.

#83 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:46 PM

Here is the "parking linK" that the F18 RC will be posting scores as soon as they're done (from the RC boat)

F18 Results - updated continuously


I've also wandered the beach and updated all the boat types.

I don't think anyone is sailing with the small sail plan, but I'm not 100% sure.


The F18 guys let me know they'd rather not have the boat type published, so that info's been removed.

We're still under AP. Not looking good. Flags are limp.




#84 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 04:56 PM

That seems kinda silly, but pass word along that we love your results list. GOod work.

#85 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:05 PM

Bounds is putting together a light air playlist. He's got some weird shit.

#86 Shaggy

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:09 PM

So you guys found the RAAAACCCCIIIINNNEE High Hu?? Not to be confused with the Kenosha Hole.... Not that I would know anything about that.........:lol: Hopefully something comes in for you guys.

#87 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:13 PM

Kind of strange that sailors of production boats wouldnt want that publicized. You have Blunted and SHC explaining, in detail, how they fab their hulls, wings, etc for a C Class, but somehow a production cat is too top secret :/

MS

#88 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:18 PM

I also find it odd, oh well, I'm sure it will get listed somewhere, I wonder if you can figure it out using sail numbers...

-P

Kind of strange that sailors of production boats wouldnt want that publicized. You have Blunted and SHC explaining, in detail, how they fab their hulls, wings, etc for a C Class, but somehow a production cat is too top secret :/

MS



#89 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:27 PM

Kind of strange that sailors of production boats wouldnt want that publicized. You have Blunted and SHC explaining, in detail, how they fab their hulls, wings, etc for a C Class, but somehow a production cat is too top secret :/

MS


It not really like that. They'd just rather not "discriminate". They're all F18s.

Can you imagine the shit we'd get if we put everybody's religious affiliation on the list?

"The Jews are definitely faster at this event. Atheists are a weak second, followed by the Catholics and the Baptists."

You see what I mean now?



#90 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:32 PM



#91 AcceleratedChaos

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:34 PM


Kind of strange that sailors of production boats wouldnt want that publicized. You have Blunted and SHC explaining, in detail, how they fab their hulls, wings, etc for a C Class, but somehow a production cat is too top secret :/

MS


It not really like that. They'd just rather not "discriminate". They're all F18s.

Can you imagine the shit we'd get if we put everybody's religious affiliation on the list?

"The Jews are definitely faster at this event. Atheists are a weak second, followed by the Catholics and the Baptists."

You see what I mean now?



Mischa is Jewish????

#92 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:36 PM

Not to be confused with the Kenosha Hole.... Not that I would know anything about that.........:lol:


We might need some entertainment this afternoon, got a contact?

#93 MauganNacra20

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:37 PM

Mischa is Jewish????


Must be from his mother's side. We stuffed Mr. Pete (Mischa's Dad) full of so much BBQ pork back in May that he'd have to renounce his faith :P

#94 MauganNacra20

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:45 PM


Kind of strange that sailors of production boats wouldnt want that publicized. You have Blunted and SHC explaining, in detail, how they fab their hulls, wings, etc for a C Class, but somehow a production cat is too top secret :/

MS


It not really like that. They'd just rather not "discriminate". They're all F18s.

Can you imagine the shit we'd get if we put everybody's religious affiliation on the list?

"The Jews are definitely faster at this event. Atheists are a weak second, followed by the Catholics and the Baptists."

You see what I mean now?


I made a point about this stuff a couple years ago - back with F18 was really catching on in the SE US.

When it became modus operandi to post the boat types alongside the finishes, I realized that the story was quickly becoming more about the manufacturer wars (a-la Chevy vs Ford) than it was about the sailors. IIRC I got a pretty harsh rebuttal about it back then but now it seems like more people are realizing what I did back then. They all sail F18's ...

Now whats ironic is that the competitors want their boat types to be omitted from their results - however once the final results are in, the 1st place finishers' manufacturer will have a press release ready to go about how their boat powered their team to victory.

Its how boats are marketted and sold I guess.

#95 Jake

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:48 PM

That seems kinda silly, but pass word along that we love your results list. GOod work.


Not publishing the boat types is actually a requirement of the global F18 organization and was important early in the building of the class. They wanted it to remain a multiple manufacturer class and wanted the organization to be as unbiased as possible toward any one manufacturer. This was one way they helped to ensure that the outward appearance of the organization was completely neutral. That's a hard thing to do when the manufacturers are playing a big role in the organization and promotion. Draw a line. No manufacturer information in the results - I like the message. What other class has had similar success with a multiple manufacturer one design class?

#96 maritmesailski

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 05:57 PM

Well explained Jake, makes sense.

#97 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 06:01 PM

Ever so slight breeze filling in from the SE less than 5.

#98 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:25 PM

Ever so slight breeze filling in from the SE less than 5.

Sucker breeze.

Flags on the beach are hinting at a NE breeze. Bringing the fog back, though. We can't win.




#99 Surf City Racing

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:40 PM


Ever so slight breeze filling in from the SE less than 5.

Sucker breeze.

Flags on the beach are hinting at a NE breeze. Bringing the fog back, though. We can't win.




Unless there's a miracle, we're not racing today.

#100 Jake

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 07:40 PM

Kind of strange that sailors of production boats wouldnt want that publicized. You have Blunted and SHC explaining, in detail, how they fab their hulls, wings, etc for a C Class, but somehow a production cat is too top secret :/

MS


It's not that the production of the F18 is secret - it's dumb old heavy (relatively) beach cat technology. Fiberglass hulls with tops, bottoms, and sides, aluminum beams (two), aluminum mast, aluminum spin pole, standard sail cloths, and (gasp) carbon IS allowed in the foils. The dimensions and configurations of the boats are defined with pretty high detail so the boats really aren't the story. It's worked out really well that the sailors are the story with only a minor side helping of boat.

The real techy stuff is how the thinkers and tinkerers rig their boats to be easier to sail and to some degree the latest sail shapes but, honestly, to any outsider, the nuances of that is going to be completely overwhelming and impossible to understand from afar.

The whole point of the class is that the technology is plain enough that the boat is only the smallest percentage of the performance. However, at the same time, the class caters to the desires to as many of the different sailor perspectives as possible. The boat performance in the class is quite good and handling is challenging for two, everyone gets to sail within their sail and boat manufacturer bias (there used to be a lot in the beach cat world), and because of the multiple manufacturers and the high rate of new boat design releases, those with a bad infection of "shiny-itus" get more brand new shiny boats to choose from causing a high flow of quality used boats on the market. The rules on rigging are pretty much non-existent and you can get really creative with the way lines are run - only line types (trapeze and standing rigging) are restricted. The manufacturers (practically all of them) are selling boats like gangbusters and have accepted and respect the class model. The fact that events are silent about the boat type is not really a problem to anyone - and nobody prohibits a manufacturer from touting their success after the fact.

Now, quit arguing how one of the largest and most successful one design classes on the planet is managing themselves poorly and go back to getting us some race results posted.




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