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Bermuda One-Two


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#1 oarsrfaster

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:25 AM

I know that the Bermuda One-Two is the big mini east coast race. I was wondering if there is going to be a fleet next year and if so who is planning on racing. Additionally does anyone have details of what is going to be required as a qualifier. If its the same as last year, sailing the qualifier in San Francisco this time of year is better then the winter or spring.

#2 kokopelli

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:33 AM

No news from the RC, but I would expect the qualifier requirements to be the same as last year: 200 miles singlehanded for minis, 100 for PHRF boats. Also need to document time in the boat. Oh, and your boat needs to conform to CM rules unless superceeded by B1-2 rules (I.e. sat phone).

#3 dinghydock

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:20 PM

The Bermuda 1-2 Skipper's Forum/Meeting is tomorrow in Newport at the Newport Yacht Club. We will know of any changes to requirements over previous years. I'll try to post here after meeting.

#4 oarsrfaster

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:54 PM

how close are we forced to stay to the mini rules? I have put a lifing hole in my deck, and was thinking of getting a laminate mainsail, are these features going to DQ me???

#5 184

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 07:31 AM

how close are we forced to stay to the mini rules? I have put a lifing hole in my deck, and was thinking of getting a laminate mainsail, are these features going to DQ me???



Giving up on the trans pac?

#6 NAMT

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 06:28 PM

Oarsfaster, others are asking the same kind of questions about the NA fleet racing under Classe Mini's international rules & soon the North American Mini Association will need to provide a policy, decisions &/or some guidance for NA Mini owners & race organizers.

So I think anyone owning a Mini will need to think & answer some of the following questions in order for us to have an informed debate to guide the process:
1) Why do I own, or plan to buy, a Mini Transat 6,50 to race & then plan to not race under the international Classe Mini rules?
2) If I plan to race PHRF why do I need to be concerned about Classe Mini rules when all I need to do is meet the local race committee's rules?
3) If I want to race against other Minis, in a designated class, or a Minis only race, why would I ask for an exemption to the rules others are accepting & racing under?4) If I want to race against other Minis under PHRF & local committee rules why be concerned about any Class Mini requirements?
4) Why would I, or did already, buy, sails that are not Classe legal?
5) Why would I, or did already, modify my boat in ways that would contravene the Classe rules?
6) Are there safety related reasons for modifying Classe Mini rules - e.g. carrying a satphone, a gps with e-charts, carrying fewer flares, or carrying an outboard motor?
7) What are the best reasons for any Mini owner to request an exemption from racing under the Classe Mini rules?

Maybe we could start that discussion here.
The NA Association held its AGM last Saturday, this topic was discussed, so now is a good time for all the pros & cons to be debated.

#7 sharkbait

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 08:09 PM

Oarsfaster, others are asking the same kind of questions about the NA fleet racing under Classe Mini's international rules & soon the North American Mini Association will need to provide a policy, decisions &/or some guidance for NA Mini owners & race organizers.

So I think anyone owning a Mini will need to think & answer some of the following questions in order for us to have an informed debate to guide the process:
1) Why do I own, or plan to buy, a Mini Transat 6,50 to race & then plan to not race under the international Classe Mini rules?
2) If I plan to race PHRF why do I need to be concerned about Classe Mini rules when all I need to do is meet the local race committee's rules?
3) If I want to race against other Minis, in a designated class, or a Minis only race, why would I ask for an exemption to the rules others are accepting & racing under?4) If I want to race against other Minis under PHRF & local committee rules why be concerned about any Class Mini requirements?
4) Why would I, or did already, buy, sails that are not Classe legal?
5) Why would I, or did already, modify my boat in ways that would contravene the Classe rules?
6) Are there safety related reasons for modifying Classe Mini rules - e.g. carrying a satphone, a gps with e-charts, carrying fewer flares, or carrying an outboard motor?
7) What are the best reasons for any Mini owner to request an exemption from racing under the Classe Mini rules?

Maybe we could start that discussion here.
The NA Association held its AGM last Saturday, this topic was discussed, so now is a good time for all the pros & cons to be debated.


Adrian,

I was the one that brought up the sail-cloth issue at the meeting, but I might not have been clear (or perhaps it was the poor connection).

I want to adhere to the rules regarding sail-material, I was just looking for guidance as to who can make the final call as to whether a specific material is allowed under the rules. There always seems to be some confusion as to what exactly qualifies as "woven polyester"


Christian

#8 NAMT

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Posted 07 November 2010 - 09:10 PM

Hi Christian,

I did not hear the discussion on the B 1-2 rules that are the focus of this thread. My post was to raise the question of rules across North America, all races including CMNA managed races.
My personal position is that we ought to adhere to all CM rules with the exception of a local race rule where safety is the issue & the requirement to race enhances safety rather than reduce safety levels - for example in the SHTP or the Pac Cup that Minis carry a Satphone or SSB radio as approved by the CMNA..
If boats are racing PHRF & there is no Mini class, within the race, I guess people can do as they wish.
BUT if there is a Mini class in any race anywhere in NA, I prefer that Mini rules apply & any changes be approved by the CMNA.

This thread can be an opportunity for people to say what they think & why.

#9 abel650

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 12:05 AM

I really don't understand this struggle over rules. As far as I know, every international sailing class in the world uses the same rules in every country. Therefore if your boat is compliant at your own country's national championships, you can be certain that when you go off to the worlds to represent your country, your boat will be compliant.

What is so complicated? The rules are the rules and the Classe is based in France. Every country that I know of outside of France that organizes mini races (Spain, Italy and England) all abide by the same rules. Why are those same rules not good enough for us Americans?

Christian, even though the sail cloth rules seem very straight forward and unambiguous to me, if you have any doubts, the right place to go for an interpretation (or "final call") would be the Classe Mini. Both of the secretaries speak english and are very helpful and both have skype accounts. If they don't have an immediate answer, they send your request to the technical committee and get back to you.

#10 abel650

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 12:11 AM

just to clarify, by struggle, I wasn't just referring to the debate going on in this thread, but to the fact that this question has been debated for at least the past 4 years and maybe longer...

#11 oarsrfaster

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 05:37 AM

I understand that rules are rules. I certainly wasn't asking for an exception... Sails I have no problem conforming to, as for the deck mod for launching purposes, its staying, I'll just enter as a proto...

Have fun going to Bermuda...

184, I am still interested in transpac... If we can't get enough boats together I was looking at the B 1-2... There is always long pac!

#12 kokopelli

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 11:29 PM

I don't see anything in the rules that precludes a single-point lift. I used one on my Zero and lauched it at my local YC that way.

I made spectra strops attached to each shroud and runner chainplate, all meeting at a single point 140 cm (I think, number came from Lombard) above the cockpit. Never had an issue launching the boat that way.

Even if you have a deck plate, I don't think that is an issue.

#13 Greyhawk

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 09:19 PM

The Notice of Race for the 2011 Bermuda 1-2 was posted today.

http://www.bermuda1-2.org/2011/NoticeOfRace2011.pdf

6.1.1. There will be a separate class(s) for the Mini 6.5s. Boats entered in this class must have approval by the USA Mini 6.5 Class that they meet the Mini Class rules at the date of the issuance of the class hull number. The Mini shall meet or exceed the 90 degree stability requirement of the Mini Class. The Mini 6.5 boats shall meet all the requirements as stated in this document as well as additional requirements identified for the Mini 6.5s.


8.2.1. To qualify, Mini 6.5s entrants are required to have a qualifier of not less than 200 miles in length and in duration of not less than 48 hours plus an additional 300 miles on the boat are required.


(59a) A satellite telephone is requried for all Mini 6.5 boats



#14 dinghydock

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 02:40 PM

Those interested in competing should pay attention to the list of requirements for the race. There is a lot of redundancy between what is required by Class Mini but the Bermuda Race does ask for a few additional flares and such.

So far a we have 4 people that say they are attending on the Mini Class North America Forum (www.miniclassus.org). Anyone else interested should add your boat to the list there!

#15 lowerandfaster

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:02 PM

Any new news on entries? The Bermuda 1-2 website just has a list of names.

#16 Greyhawk

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:36 PM

You can see the list of those who have actually entered so far here: http://www.bermuda1-...cratchSheet.pdf (this is not updated in real time, though, but maybe once every week or two?)

Keep in mind that the deadline to apply for entry is not until May 14.

The next skipper's forum is March 5; maybe there will be a significant update on entries after that.

#17 lowerandfaster

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:35 PM

So no minis yet....how many do they need to have a class?

#18 NAMT

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:44 PM

So no minis yet....how many do they need to have a class?


Only half a dozen non-Minis registered so far.

This is from the B 1-2 website re Ministas intentions:

"31 Jan - The following people have stated that they expect to race in 2011: Sam Ausmus, Dave Christianson, Joe Cooper, Christian Reimer, Jay Sharkey, "

#19 lowerandfaster

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 05:10 PM

Still living vicariously here and I noticed that there's only 1 mini signed up for the Bermuda 1-2. How many do they need to have a class? Would a mini have a chance under phrf?

#20 NAMT

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 06:04 AM

Two on the scratch list today:
Diane Reid Series Zero #655
Jay Sharkey Proto #415

Phil's entry is in the mail (Pogo1)

Entries close on the 14th so hopefully Christian (TipTop), Sam (eKo), Dave (Dix) & Joe (Wylie) will make it.

#21 NAMT

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 12:24 AM

Tuesday 17th, Mini entries - 3 series & 1 proto:
Phillipe, 175, P1
Diane,655, Zero
Christian, 702, TipTop
Jay, 415, Berret-Racoupeau

#22 redboat

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 12:22 PM

Looks like nice brisk NW winds for the start.

Minis should have a good ride. At least for the first part.

Good luck to all.

#23 kokopelli

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 06:30 PM

Good luck to all. I am sorry I am missing it.

#24 NAMT

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Posted 04 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

They are off & it looks as though they have good winds & seas, the Minis are ahead of most of the fleet sailing at 6.5 - 7.5 knots.
Among the Minis:
Dianne, OGOC, series Zero, is in the lead with 516.9 miles to go,
Christian, Frogger, series TipTop, 520.5 miles to the finish,
Jay USA 415, (Carbon Neutral?), proto, 536.7, &
Phillipe. Pogo Loco, series P1, 542.6

#25 NAMT

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Posted 05 June 2011 - 04:42 PM

They are off & it looks as though they have good winds & seas, the Minis are ahead of most of the fleet sailing at 6.5 - 7.5 knots.
Among the Minis:
Dianne, OGOC, series Zero, is in the lead with 516.9 miles to go,
Christian, Frogger, series TipTop, 520.5 miles to the finish,
Jay USA 415, (Carbon Neutral?), proto, 536.7, &
Phillipe. Pogo Loco, series P1, 542.6


Another great day for the Mini fleet, looks like 2 races emerging in the fleet.
The top 2 series boats & the slowest (P1) v the fastest boat (Proto)
Christian Tip Top, has pulled ahead of Dianne to lead by 9 miles & now has 374 miles to the finish
Dianne has 383 miles to go.
13 miles separate the 2 leading Minis from the two trailing boats.

Jay must be having some problems, proto USA 415 is the fastest Mini in the fleet but is in 3rd place with 396 miles to the finish &
Phillipe sailing the oldest & slowest series boat is only 11 miles behind Jay with 407 miles to go.

#26 NAMT

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 04:15 PM

Christian has increased his lead & Jay has moved up to 2nd place, or rather Dianne has fallen back to 3rd, having had to cut her spinnaker away. Phillipe has caught up a few miles & is still in reach of 2nd series place:
Christian, Tip Top, Series 193 miles to finish,
Jay, Proto, + 37
Dianne, series, Zero, + 39
Phillipe, series, P1, +61

#27 dinghydock

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 05:00 PM

The start was a bit of a jumble with a pretty healthy breeze and current. Philipe tried to run t he line but ended up being three seconds early and had a hard time getting back to weather. Jay had some difficulties as well. Christian was probably the most conservative which ended up paying off as he was the first across the line. They had a beam reach out of Newport and then were able to set kites at R"2". We followed them out of the bay and took I few photos. I will add pictures to in a little while.

#28 dinghydock

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Posted 06 June 2011 - 08:40 PM

Here is Frogger once he got his chute up! Onne was to leeward getting some shots of him as well!

#29 Bhamarchist

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:06 AM

Here is Frogger once he got his chute up! Onne was to leeward getting some shots of him as well!


pic doesn't seem to have attached, try again! Would be great to see some photos.

#30 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:25 AM

Sick.... Last night the motion of the boat was rather uncomfortable. Being down bwlow trying to write e-mails didn't help matters. As is usually the case with me, if I just get it over with, I will feel better, or least different. And so what little food I had had to eat that day ended up all over the toe rail and life-line cusion. And I did feel different, ready to sleep. But first this leads me to something else I want to discuss - the difficulty of staying hydrated. I need to drink more. My pee seems more brown than yellow. So why is it that we get so dehydrated out here? Sure, the bright sun, the sweaty exertions of making sail changes, the pliometric exercises of steering and just holding on, but then there is this: the salt. Everything gets coated with salt, and I mean everythig. Salt, of course, attracts moisture, so everything is also damp. But all the salt also just draws the moisture right out of you. So here it is: despite all the water around, incredible heaping mounds of water, the ocean is really just a giant dessicator!

Sleep. Finally, some sleep. I sleep in the cockpit in my foulies, all harnessed up and ready to go. I do not trust my autopilot. I curl up on the cockpit sole, a few boat cushions strategically located. My feet, butt, and shoulders all braced against different walls. I wake in an hour or so, feeling a little better. There is nothing out there. The sky is largely overcast with clouds in different shades of gray, a few holes through which you could see the stars overhaed, and an inky black sea. The cockpit was eerily illuminated by the glow of the instruments, and the masthead tri-color. No other lights, just the occaisional white of a cresting wave, and the phosphorescent streamline coming off the rudder. There wasn't much for me to do but supervise the autopilot. So back to sleep, balled up in the corner of the cockpit.

Something is not right. The wind is different. The motion of the boat is different. What's that beeping? Autopilot "Mot Stall" alarm. I look back at the tiller and it is waving back and forth, the autopilot's pushrod having fallen off. This has happened before, I'll just clamp it back on. But when I get back there, it is clear that my whole jury-rig attachment assembly has fallen apart. Maybe I sheared on of the bolts? The wind and sea state are up, maybe beyond what I think the AP could handle anyway. I can hand steer until dawn, when then there might be enough light to see what I am doing, and when things might have settled down a bit. What time is it? 00:30 -- ok another four, five hours on the tiller -- I can do it. I have to do it. And so I did. It wasn't so bad. With just the main up (no headsail), I could steer deeper downwind and keep on course for Kitchen Shoals. We're moving pretty well, do we have some current with us?

Hey what's that? A light! Another vessel. And look, way off down there off to Starboard, _another_ light. Could it be Palangi and Aggressive? That would be so cool! How did I catch up to them? I'm able to steer depper? I have a fair current, and they have a foul one? The closer of the two appears to be on a converging course. As he approaches red turns to green. He passed behing me, maybe a 1/4 mile, and as he sails on, green turns to white. OK the other vessel, am I catching them? ...Must sleep... But the other vessel! ... concentrate, you're off course again! .... must sleeeep.... I catch myself doing the head bob. I try sitting to leeward -- maybe a different postion, using different muscles. No, that's no good -- pulling on the tiller is much better than pushing on it. I switch sides again. .... must sleep ... I set my kitchen timer for 5 minutes and stuff that down the front of my jacket. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Try sitting on the other side again. Look the sky looks like it is starting to lighten a bit. It will be dawn soon. I can hold on a little bit longer. Finally, I heave too, and inspect the wreckage. No, I didn't shear one of the bolts, rather the nut came loose until the bolt fell out. I found another nut and bolt, this time a nylock nut, put it all back together, tightened everything up good. Yeah, that'll do the trick.

Time to get moving again, so I roll out the genoa, and set off on a broad reach as close to the desired course as I can. The boat that passed behind me last night is now ahead of me. The other boat has disappeared. Chat Hour is coming up in another two hours, maybe I should run the engine for an hour to top up the batteries. I set my kitchen time for an hour, the engine roaring away pumping amps back into the battery, and I fall asleep on my scattered cushions on the cockpit sole.

I wake up and the timer is next to me on the cockpit sole, pointer at zero. I is not ringing. I look at my watch -- it's been 80 minutes! I shut it down. Peace and quiet, right? No! A sailing vessel at sea is an incredible caucophony of noise. The roar of your bow wave when you're charging alone. The hiss of the water as it rushes past the hull. The creak of the ladder where it rubs against the bulkead. The slat of the sail as it empties, followed by the pow, bang as it fills. The whirr-whirr, whirr-whirr of the autopilot motor as it drives the tiller back and forth, back and forth. Good to know that it is still working!

Radio chat hour comes up. I am able to make contacts with a few boats. The boat ahead of me is Tyger Tyger, the one that was off in the distance last night turns out to be Cordelia. So I didn't catch up to Palangi or Aggressive after all -- I was going slow again, even though I thought I was so clever and so fast. Sailing at night always seems so fast.

This is still a race, though. I still have a chance maybe to get in ahead of Cordelia at least, she's not that far ahead -- we still have about 200 miles to go... who knows what could happen between now and then.

Running wing-and-wing before 18 knots of breeze aimed right for the mark, and have had some good current boost, too. I know the wind and current won't last, but my GPS says the TTG (to Kitchen Shoals, the finishline at Mills Breaker Buoy is another couple miles further on) is less than 24 hours, as long as my WCV ("wicked cool velocity" aka "waypoint closure velocity") stays up in the 9's. I know it won't, but that is alright -- I am enjoying the sailing, the weather is pleasant, there is great cameraderie among the boats in the fleet.... it is still fun.

But if I ever do something like this again, you can be sure that my self-steering system(s) will be absolutely bullet proof (and redundant).

Tim Allen
GREYHAWK
35:23N, 66:30W
13:17 EDT June 6

#31 Wookie Racing

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 12:51 AM

This would be the best (2nd half) of the B12 to be doing in a Mini!!!

#32 Ultraman

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 06:42 AM

Sick.... Last night the motion of the boat was rather uncomfortable. Being down bwlow trying to write e-mails didn't help matters. As is usually the case with me, if I just get it over with, I will feel better, or least different. And so what little food I had had to eat that day ended up all over the toe rail and life-line cusion. And I did feel different, ready to sleep. But first this leads me to something else I want to discuss - the difficulty of staying hydrated. I need to drink more. My pee seems more brown than yellow. So why is it that we get so dehydrated out here? Sure, the bright sun, the sweaty exertions of making sail changes, the pliometric exercises of steering and just holding on, but then there is this: the salt. Everything gets coated with salt, and I mean everythig. Salt, of course, attracts moisture, so everything is also damp. But all the salt also just draws the moisture right out of you. So here it is: despite all the water around, incredible heaping mounds of water, the ocean is really just a giant dessicator!

Sleep. Finally, some sleep. I sleep in the cockpit in my foulies, all harnessed up and ready to go. I do not trust my autopilot. I curl up on the cockpit sole, a few boat cushions strategically located. My feet, butt, and shoulders all braced against different walls. I wake in an hour or so, feeling a little better. There is nothing out there. The sky is largely overcast with clouds in different shades of gray, a few holes through which you could see the stars overhaed, and an inky black sea. The cockpit was eerily illuminated by the glow of the instruments, and the masthead tri-color. No other lights, just the occaisional white of a cresting wave, and the phosphorescent streamline coming off the rudder. There wasn't much for me to do but supervise the autopilot. So back to sleep, balled up in the corner of the cockpit.

Something is not right. The wind is different. The motion of the boat is different. What's that beeping? Autopilot "Mot Stall" alarm. I look back at the tiller and it is waving back and forth, the autopilot's pushrod having fallen off. This has happened before, I'll just clamp it back on. But when I get back there, it is clear that my whole jury-rig attachment assembly has fallen apart. Maybe I sheared on of the bolts? The wind and sea state are up, maybe beyond what I think the AP could handle anyway. I can hand steer until dawn, when then there might be enough light to see what I am doing, and when things might have settled down a bit. What time is it? 00:30 -- ok another four, five hours on the tiller -- I can do it. I have to do it. And so I did. It wasn't so bad. With just the main up (no headsail), I could steer deeper downwind and keep on course for Kitchen Shoals. We're moving pretty well, do we have some current with us?

Hey what's that? A light! Another vessel. And look, way off down there off to Starboard, _another_ light. Could it be Palangi and Aggressive? That would be so cool! How did I catch up to them? I'm able to steer depper? I have a fair current, and they have a foul one? The closer of the two appears to be on a converging course. As he approaches red turns to green. He passed behing me, maybe a 1/4 mile, and as he sails on, green turns to white. OK the other vessel, am I catching them? ...Must sleep... But the other vessel! ... concentrate, you're off course again! .... must sleeeep.... I catch myself doing the head bob. I try sitting to leeward -- maybe a different postion, using different muscles. No, that's no good -- pulling on the tiller is much better than pushing on it. I switch sides again. .... must sleep ... I set my kitchen timer for 5 minutes and stuff that down the front of my jacket. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Try sitting on the other side again. Look the sky looks like it is starting to lighten a bit. It will be dawn soon. I can hold on a little bit longer. Finally, I heave too, and inspect the wreckage. No, I didn't shear one of the bolts, rather the nut came loose until the bolt fell out. I found another nut and bolt, this time a nylock nut, put it all back together, tightened everything up good. Yeah, that'll do the trick.

Time to get moving again, so I roll out the genoa, and set off on a broad reach as close to the desired course as I can. The boat that passed behind me last night is now ahead of me. The other boat has disappeared. Chat Hour is coming up in another two hours, maybe I should run the engine for an hour to top up the batteries. I set my kitchen time for an hour, the engine roaring away pumping amps back into the battery, and I fall asleep on my scattered cushions on the cockpit sole.

I wake up and the timer is next to me on the cockpit sole, pointer at zero. I is not ringing. I look at my watch -- it's been 80 minutes! I shut it down. Peace and quiet, right? No! A sailing vessel at sea is an incredible caucophony of noise. The roar of your bow wave when you're charging alone. The hiss of the water as it rushes past the hull. The creak of the ladder where it rubs against the bulkead. The slat of the sail as it empties, followed by the pow, bang as it fills. The whirr-whirr, whirr-whirr of the autopilot motor as it drives the tiller back and forth, back and forth. Good to know that it is still working!

Radio chat hour comes up. I am able to make contacts with a few boats. The boat ahead of me is Tyger Tyger, the one that was off in the distance last night turns out to be Cordelia. So I didn't catch up to Palangi or Aggressive after all -- I was going slow again, even though I thought I was so clever and so fast. Sailing at night always seems so fast.

This is still a race, though. I still have a chance maybe to get in ahead of Cordelia at least, she's not that far ahead -- we still have about 200 miles to go... who knows what could happen between now and then.

Running wing-and-wing before 18 knots of breeze aimed right for the mark, and have had some good current boost, too. I know the wind and current won't last, but my GPS says the TTG (to Kitchen Shoals, the finishline at Mills Breaker Buoy is another couple miles further on) is less than 24 hours, as long as my WCV ("wicked cool velocity" aka "waypoint closure velocity") stays up in the 9's. I know it won't, but that is alright -- I am enjoying the sailing, the weather is pleasant, there is great cameraderie among the boats in the fleet.... it is still fun.

But if I ever do something like this again, you can be sure that my self-steering system(s) will be absolutely bullet proof (and redundant).

Tim Allen
GREYHAWK
35:23N, 66:30W
13:17 EDT June 6

Awesome report...

#33 NAMT

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:02 PM

Christian is going to take the line honours & series record time for L 1.
Christian 4.3 miles to finish,
Dianne,+ 72.7 miles
Jay, + 83.7
Philippe, + 107

Dianne has returned to 2nd place, adding over 15 miles miles against Jay.
There must be a story here - maybe Jay is dragging another lobsterpot.

#34 dinghydock

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Posted 07 June 2011 - 05:21 PM

That's one hell of a lead he has! Putting a little pressure on me for the return leg!

#35 redboat

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 11:31 AM

A fine race down. Hope some of the competitors share their experiences.

#36 NAMT

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Posted 08 June 2011 - 06:21 PM

A fine race down. Hope some of the competitors share their experiences.


We have a winner.

1st in Mini fleet & 1st series, Christian, TipTop, 97.0 hrs
2nd in Mini fleet & series Dianne, 112.22 hrs
3rd in fleet & the sole proto racing, Jay, 113.10 hrs (almost caught Dianne)
4th in fleet & 3rd series, Phillipe, - no time yet

#37 NAMT

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 04:14 AM


A fine race down. Hope some of the competitors share their experiences.


We have a winner.

1st in Mini fleet & 1st series, Christian, TipTop, 97.0 hrs
2nd in Mini fleet & series Dianne, 112.22 hrs
3rd in fleet & the sole proto racing, Jay, 113.10 hrs (almost caught Dianne)
4th in fleet & 3rd series, Phillipe, - no time yet


Phillipe arrived in Bermuda, 117.27 hrs!

All three series boats beat the old 2007 L1 record held by Sam sailing P1, 175 - 126 hrs 59 mins
So Christian has the new L1 record - 97.0 hrs

The proto record for L1 remains with Ryan Finn - 86 hrs 31 mins

#38 lowerandfaster

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:16 PM

Heard second hand it was 415's first time off the dock since the mast came down.

#39 PKGB

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 06:38 PM

Heard second hand it was 415's first time off the dock since the mast came down.


Heard right. Not a bad showing for a non-tuned, non sea-trialed rig and rigging package.

Get some Sharkey!

#40 NAMT

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Posted 09 June 2011 - 08:46 PM

Glad to hear it wasn't a major breakage - this is the 3rd B 1-2 for #415 & her first finish.
So my money will be on Jay to lead the fleet home on L2 - no doubt about this boat's potential.

One very positive note - for all 3 entrants who have done the race before - Jay (3), Christian (2) & Phillipe (2) - this year was a personal best fastest time.

#41 NAMT

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 04:03 AM

I was curious to look at the L1 winner vs the Mini leader on a couple of variables, boat size, cost, & PHRF

Beneteau Figaro II TipTop, Mini Series

LWL 9,82 m 6,50m
Beam 3,43m 3,0m
Displ 3,000k(approx) 1,000k (approx)

Cost to race $75k (approx) $200k + (approx)


PHRF 51 114 (My Zero's PHRF & TipTop ought to be similar)
Elapsed Time 87 hrs 33 mins 97.0 hrs
Corrected Time 99 hrs 41 mins ?????

I don't know if the B 1-2 RC uses a formulae to adjust PHRF ratings based on conditions so am not sure how to compare the boats on corrected times, the Minis raced as a class not under PHRF.
Does anyone know how to calculate the TipTops corrected time?

#42 184

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:38 AM

If they corrected it time on distance it would be 114 minus 51 = 63 seconds a mile they owe the mini. Deduct 63 x miles = corrected time. I don't know how many miles the race is?
But they may be correcting it on time on time which is a more complicated formula and it's late here and I'm sailing Wafi up to the city tomorrow so can't figure it out tonight.

In the Bay over the last few years they have been using time on distance more often. At first I did a lot of studying results both ways and at least were I was was looking it didn't make much difference in the end.

#43 184

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 07:44 AM

By the way, thanks for the updates on the race. I couldn't find the web site, got it for me?

#44 sharkbait

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:46 AM

The one major benefit Flying Turtle had was the symmetric spinnaker that allowed him to run down the rhumb line while the rest of us were pulling off to the west.

#45 dinghydock

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:50 AM

Race website is www.bermuda1-2.org

The race is approximately 636 miles.

#46 sharkbait

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 11:56 AM

So, I am sitting here inside the fine ship Frogger with a cup of jetboil coffee ready to go.

We all started with a reef and jib close reaching out of the bay. At Brenton Reef I popped the small spinnaker and Diane was close behind me. Over the next hour the wind dropped and we went to the big spinnakers. After another hour the wind started turnig so I jibed and shortly there after went to the jib and settled into light upwind mode. As we sailed into a growing SE breeze that night, I think I could hear some swearing from the mini fleet. What the h#!! happened to the NW wind??? I do have a nice picture of Frogger under reefer main, jib, and small spin but cannot figure out how to post from my iPhone.

#47 sharkbait

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:01 PM

The wind came back at about sunrise on the second day. I put up the big spinnaker and basically ran with that on starboard tack the entire day. Had a nice visit with dolphins and hit something softish (the sound was thump thump - keel and port rudder). The wind was gradually increasing throughout the day and I finally pulled it down around 1800 or so withthe wind blowing 22 kts. That was interesting. Up went the small spinnaker and I started clawing back to the rhumb line of port. Some good gusts that evening and i had some pretty scary rides that night.

#48 sharkbait

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:08 PM

The third was all about the gulf stream. Reefer main and small spinnaker for most of the trip through. It was a lot of work and I was exhauset that evening. The gulf stream was odd this year in the sense that (from a wind and cloud standpoint) it never really ended. Normally we hit the stream and you see a change in the cloud cover, the water color, the sea state, temperature, and wind. Ten after 60 miles or so you come out the other end. This time the cloud cover and wind never changed. It was as if I could not get out of the stream.

#49 sharkbait

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 12:16 PM

The fourth day was was a nice breeze sunny day again. Bermuda was DDW so it was a balance of running deep and jining. Didn't see any boats or ships or sealife or anything this entire day. Just waves.

The last night I pushed hard be ause I really wanted to get i to Bermuda in the daytime. This is the third B12 I do and the first two times I have arrived shortly before midnight. Tia Ike around I just needed to push through the night to ensure I would get to Bermuda n the daytime. This was a very eerie night though. I had a hard time focusing my eyes and could not tell the water fromthe sky. I kept thinking j was sailing I to a wall, but luckily I could reason with myself ... "we are a 100 miles from Bermuda - thereis NOTHING out here!!"

The last 50 miles into bermuda were slow with a softening wind and a seastate that was too big for it. DDW as well until 10 mes before the finish when I suddenly had to switch back to the jib. Upwind? WTF?

#50 r.finn

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 02:35 PM

Great job Christian. All that work and a beautifully prepared boat paid off. You set up Chris quite well for the return leg.

I think a special congrats is in order for Jay. Litterally the first time sailing the boat since the 2007 race, and a leg one finish. Pretty amazing.

I hope all you guys have a fun return leg.

And Jan, Christian took 45 minutes off your leg one time. Time for us to get back out there and fight for the remaining minutes ;)

#51 kokopelli

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 06:18 PM

45 minutes!? Congratulations Christian! Nicely done.

Yes Ryan, we need another go at it. I miss the race, the boats, and most of all the people.

It was fun watching this year, but it also sucked sitting on the sidelines.

There will be a next time....

#52 NAMT

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:02 PM

45 minutes!? Congratulations Christian! Nicely done.

Yes Ryan, we need another go at it. I miss the race, the boats, and most of all the people.

It was fun watching this year, but it also sucked sitting on the sidelines.

There will be a next time....


I am doing a delivery to Quebec & hope to be at the finish of L2.
It looks as though this year the weather really suits the Mini fleet.

Ryan can you borrow the M65 for 2013? I see it is back with you on the E coast.
Jan, how about a kit RG650 - really inexpensive in comparison to all the other series & a new design that looks very interesting - I will tow it to Newport for you .. lol

How about the PHRF question? Did the TipTop beat the Figaro II on corrected time?

#53 sharkbait

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 01:22 AM

Here is Frogger once he got his chute up! Onne was to leeward getting some shots of him as well!


Black Berry photo so not the best quality in the world ...
Attached File  b12-start.jpg   94.39K   216 downloads

#54 redboat

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:36 AM


Here is Frogger once he got his chute up! Onne was to leeward getting some shots of him as well!


Black Berry photo so not the best quality in the world ...
Attached File  b12-start.jpg   94.39K   216 downloads




That is one happy looking Mini. Nice pic.

#55 sharkbait

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 12:25 PM

A short video from Day 3 of the race. The gopro fish-eye makes everything look a lot less exciting than it felt at the time ...



#56 sharkbait

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:13 PM

How about the PHRF question? Did the TipTop beat the Figaro II on corrected time?


The Bermuda1-2 race uses Time on Time (not Time on Distance). If I use a hypothetical PHRF of 114 for the TipTop, then the corrected time would be 94:57 so the Figaro would still win by 16 minutes. Using Time on Distance (635 miles) the Mini would have corrected ahead of the Figaro by well over an hour.

However, the minis race in the Bermuda1-2 without a rating so the above really does not matter. I am just grateful that a handful of people did a lot of work loading up to the 2007 race to get the Minis into the race in the first place.

#57 sharkbait

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 03:22 PM

I did not have any pictures of kittens, so here is a video with some dolphins



#58 Greyhawk

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 11:21 AM

Congrats to Pogo Loco for sailing most of the DH leg with just the port rudder, having struck something that sheared off the starboard rudder fairly early on. Most of the race was on Port tack, too, so it would have been tough to keep that rudder in the water.

Greyhawk (not a mini)

#59 lowerandfaster

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 05:10 PM

Just catching up on the Bermuda 1-2 website. Anyone know the story behind 415's performance? Did the Frogger guys make it back ok? Sounds like it was a rough ride, nice job Loco Pogo on getting home with a single rudder!

#60 Greyhawk

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:25 AM

USA-415 lost a daggerboard and a rudder, and the remaining rudder was apparently getting a bit wobbly. But he is very excited to have finished at all after several attempts at this race!

#61 lstsailr

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 02:53 PM

Damn....I guess I would be too. My friend told me he's selling the boat once its fixed but that's second hand information.

#62 lowerandfaster

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 11:44 PM

Rumor's true, just wish I had a winning lotto ticket!

http://forum.sailing...cgi?post=12181




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