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SeaCart 26


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#1 Blur

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 07:39 PM

Posted Image

http://seacart26.com/
http://www.blur.se/2010/10/26/sweet-seacart-26/

#2 Mike in CT

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 07:48 PM

I want one!

#3 MauganNacra20

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 08:30 PM

thts definitely sexsy with the curved foils.
Curious as to whether or not the unsightly centerboard is necessary when the curved foils are deployed.

#4 THOR

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:00 PM

they also come in convenient double packs
I take two

thor

#5 rule69

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 09:32 PM

they also come in convenient double packs
I take two

thor


I was thinking of picking up a flat of them at COSTCO to take advantage of the volume discount. :rolleyes:

I didn't see the list price on their web site. Is it there and if so, what is the bottom line?

#6 Timbo

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:53 PM


they also come in convenient double packs
I take two

thor


I was thinking of picking up a flat of them at COSTCO to take advantage of the volume discount. :rolleyes:

I didn't see the list price on their web site. Is it there and if so, what is the bottom line?

I see about $110k US....not sure if that is before shipping???

#7 samc99us

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 10:59 PM

Its on their site, $73k, doesn't include sails, curved foils are optional (i.e, you need the centerboard as its designed to sail w/o the dagger boards), and no shipping included. Looks like a Melges 24 competitor from a market standpoint, but at double the cost. I'm a fan of speed and trimaran's fit that bill nicely, however, for a similar price I think this http://www.columbiay...olumbia32LP.php would be a better buy...all carbon construction (not E-glass w/ carbon reinforcements that delam on the first big launch), similar speed (granted the Sea Cart is likely to be faster), better on-board accommodations and truly offshore capable. Really a better comparison to the SeaCart 30 GP, but at $220k a piece, I'm sure Costco will have those on layway in the near future...

#8 eric e

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:11 PM

with the 2rudder seacart30 + seacart26 and the 1rudder multi23 it looks like the medium size racing tri market is full

down the bottom is the weta14

does that mean the next factory option should be a 17-20' racing tri?

will weta go there?

columbia32? surely you mean farrier F22

speaking of farrier

now his folding patent has expired?

is this a close copy?

#9 lake Pee

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:55 PM

with the 2rudder seacart30 + seacart26 and the 1rudder multi23 it looks like the medium size racing tri market is full

down the bottom is the weta14

does that mean the next factory option should be a 17-20' racing tri?

will weta go there?

columbia32? surely you mean farrier F22

speaking of farrier

now his folding patent has expired?

is this a close copy?


Not a close copy of farrier folding system, it has waterstays, and but one folding strut. The farrier folding system has 2 folding struts, an upper and a lower, turning the entire folding mechanism into a 4-bar-link mechanism that precisely controls the motion and rotation of the ama as it folds in and out. Take a Mechanisms course at your local engineering school to learn all about 4 bar link mechanisms.

This looks to be a close copy of the Reynolds 28 trimaran folding system. It didn't work for randy renolds and it wont work here either.

I'll keep waiting for Ian to finish the F22r production boat.

#10 Multihauler

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Posted 26 October 2010 - 11:59 PM

speaking of farrier

now his folding patent has expired?

is this a close copy?

Nope.

Looks like the Seacart 26OD's folding system uses a single strut, and is not like the dual strut Farrier folding system at all.

Farrier's twin strut folding system allows folding/unfolding while motoring in a seaway (ie. away from the dock). The dual struts make the system a bit heavier, but does not require water-stays.

-MH

#11 rule69

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:23 AM

Thanks for the price info. I just revisited the site and there was the "pricing" tab standing out like a beacon -- either it wasn't there before or, more likely, my financial self-preservation instinct prevented me from seeing it. :unsure:

I notice that the traveler looks pretty short (a solution to making it fit in the folded volume I presume). With a really high aspect main like that will there be enough travel in the traveler?

#12 Trevor B

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:51 AM

This looks to be a close copy of the Reynolds 28 trimaran folding system. It didn't work for randy renolds and it wont work here either.



Since you're so good at these type of things would you be willing to hazard a guess to why the system won't work? Seems like it should to me.
My experience with things by Randy is that the original idea may be reasonable, while the final product sometimes leaves a bit to be desired. A lot of fine products are old ideas done properly.
And no, I haven't ordered one of these...yet.



#13 rule69

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:53 AM

Posted ImageB)

#14 Timbo

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:34 AM

Posted ImageB)

+1 :)

#15 eric e

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:36 AM

couple of comments

the sail markings seem to suggest it has a canting rig...

presumably the thin line shown above below the rear beam is the water stay?

oi! ..........that's a wing sail

as to the traveller track perhaps it's short as even downwind nowadays the assym rigged boats rarely get much off the center of the track as the main sheet is acting as a backstay?

#16 THOR

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:49 AM

with the good results for the seacart 30 this will be a hot boat.
Dont just look at the price ... its cheaper than a melges 32 or not... dont look at small details like folding while under way
( do you need to be able to do that ? I usually tie up before i fold, Its not a cruisng/race combined boat , its pure racing and not much else )

but look at the very well written down plans for one design racing by end of the year,
pre season training camps, owner and team orientation.... and and and

this is very thoughtful and clear defined stuff....
this could actually work folks

thor

#17 lake Pee

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 03:19 AM


This looks to be a close copy of the Reynolds 28 trimaran folding system. It didn't work for randy renolds and it wont work here either.



Since you're so good at these type of things would you be willing to hazard a guess to why the system won't work? Seems like it should to me.
My experience with things by Randy is that the original idea may be reasonable, while the final product sometimes leaves a bit to be desired. A lot of fine products are old ideas done properly.
And no, I haven't ordered one of these...yet.



Go here and look at the rendering of the SC26 inverted: http://seacart26.com/gallery/ Notice that the single A-frame folding strut mimicks the upper folding strut of the farrier folding system. Now go watch this animation of a Farrier folding and unfolding and imagine what will happen if the lower folding strut is removed:
http://www.f-boat.co.../animation.html
The precisely controlled movement of the float and beam are lost...

Now go ask Randy Renolds, since you are so expereinced with him, why the Renolds 28 trimaran project was abandoned (i think they finished the prototype, but built no more?)
Reynolds website says this about the 28:
"In mid year 2000 Reynolds launched his R28 Trimaran prototype. The R28 Project was a three-phase program that produced a beautiful sailing trimaran that exceeded her sailing performance goals.
Set to have gone into production in late 2000, unforeseen circumstances prevented her production."

#18 eric e

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 04:10 AM

uuummm....

the vpp estimations for wind/angle/speeds in the last pic of the gallery seem less than hobie claims, at practically all angles, for the hobie20 beachcat, in the hobie university pdf

ie
at 50 degrees to 10mph wind hobie claim 10mph
90 - 14mph
120 - 12mph


at 50 degrees to 10knt wind vpp claim 9knt for the seacart 26
90 - 12knt
120 - 12knt

#19 Chris O

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 12:15 PM

Go here and look at the rendering of the SC26 inverted: http://seacart26.com/gallery/ Notice that the single A-frame folding strut mimicks the upper folding strut of the farrier folding system. Now go watch this animation of a Farrier folding and unfolding and imagine what will happen if the lower folding strut is removed:
http://www.f-boat.co.../animation.html
The precisely controlled movement of the float and beam are lost...



Couple of things here, LP... First: the SC26 is a boat with a completely different design brief envelope compared to an F-boat with its much bigger cabin for cruising requirements and all that would go with that genre. Looking to force a coastal racing design into the same box as a primarily cruising form is a bit more than anyone expects, wouldn't you say?

Second: I'm strongly inclined to accept the design solutions for this boat based on the previous experience of Marstrom with the SC30 and it's time on the water. Surely you recognize Marstrom as one of the outfits who are functioning at the top of the game right now?



Now go ask Randy Renolds, since you are so expereinced with him, why the Renolds 28 trimaran project was abandoned (i think they finished the prototype, but built no more?)
Reynolds website says this about the 28:
"In mid year 2000 Reynolds launched his R28 Trimaran prototype. The R28 Project was a three-phase program that produced a beautiful sailing trimaran that exceeded her sailing performance goals.
Set to have gone into production in late 2000, unforeseen circumstances prevented her production."


Since I don't know the precise reasons as to the withdrawal of the R28 tri from the market, I'd be cautious about suggesting that it all had to do with a folding solution, which is what you seem to intimate with your comments. Looping the phrase, "unforeseen circumstances prevented her production", into some definitive reasoning process as you see it, is disengenuous, at best. There could be several other issues not discussed on the website that contributed to the change of plans for that boat.

#20 the loose cannon

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 01:37 PM

Posted ImageB)

Looks like the next step from the old F25c (which Ian is doing with the F22r)

More about the racing, less about the cruising. Sure sounds good at the get go.

But I can guarantee that you will need to have your a game on in a seaway :)

#21 sloansailing

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 02:18 PM

But I can guarantee that you will need to have your a game on in a seaway :)


Thats what I was thinking. Sexy boat though.

I agree with the comments about how well thought out the program appears, like they really have their ducks in a row with pricing and setting up OD competition, or fleet racing.

Some renderings strike me as a little sensational, i.e. the wing mast, which to me looks more like a gimmick building on the recent wing sail excitement.

I couldn't find any description of how the beams secure into the hulls. With the single folding arms surely it needs a pretty stout connection to the main hull, like a large through bolt or something, and then tensioning of the "water stays"... Anyone have any inside knowledge on how this is done?

#22 THOR

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:13 PM

normally I would have the same concerns.... but again...they are the same folks who are building and selling the seacart 30 all over the place and the same folks as Marstrom .....
maybe the polars are correct and not as usuall totally wishfull thinking ... good on them

thor

#23 USA_73

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:34 PM

uuummm....

the vpp estimations for wind/angle/speeds in the last pic of the gallery seem less than hobie claims, at practically all angles, for the hobie20 beachcat, in the hobie university pdf


1500lb vs 400 lb, and mph vs knts...

& Cool factor vs Hobie

Bit more difference than there looks, I think.

#24 Trov„o

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:46 PM

uuummm....

the vpp estimations for wind/angle/speeds in the last pic of the gallery seem less than hobie claims, at practically all angles, for the hobie20 beachcat, in the hobie university pdf

ie
at 50 degrees to 10mph wind hobie claim 10mph
90 - 14mph
120 - 12mph


at 50 degrees to 10knt wind vpp claim 9knt for the seacart 26
90 - 12knt
120 - 12knt


you surely realise that 10kt = 12.5mph and 12kt = 13.8mph, don't you?

#25 B30

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 06:52 PM

I am confused the niche this boat will fill. It has no cabin of any kind so any real distance racing or rudimentary cruising is out of the question. It will most likely cost $120k+ on the water ready to race with a trailer. For all this money what does it offer other than a lack of trapaeze and a third crew member that a boat like the Nacra 20 or other state of the art large beach cats doesn't for less than half the price? Once you get above 30' I can see the differance with boats like the Seacart 30, Lightspeed 32, and all the corsairs and Farriers. They are a little more costl and slower, but offer capabilities the beach don't. I do not see any aditional capabilities here.

#26 Ian Farrier

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:11 PM

Not a close copy of farrier folding system, it has waterstays, and but one folding strut. The farrier folding system has 2 folding struts, an upper and a lower, turning the entire folding mechanism into a 4-bar-link mechanism that precisely controls the motion and rotation of the ama as it folds in and out. Take a Mechanisms course at your local engineering school to learn all about 4 bar link mechanisms.


A much quicker view of what happens would be to take the lower folding struts off any F-boat, and then try to fold. Others have also tried to leave off the upper folding strut, so while at it try folding with that removed instead. But be prepared for some drama either way, and it would be wise to have some extra helpers.

I'll keep waiting for Ian to finish the F22r production boat.


....which is getting closer and closer, with float molds now being made (pictured below), and main hull mold following.

Attached File  Molds.jpg   91.27K   41 downloads

The production F-22 is taking much longer than I would like, but bean counters/investors are being kept away from this one, so everything is having to be done on a limited budget. However, it means things are being done properly, with no short cuts, and definitely no designing by committee.

But, it has to be paid for as it goes, which means a certain amount of patience is required. However, some of the sideline 'bread and butter' work is interesting, the most challenging probably being the F-32SR curved lifting foils, the first of which has just been made:

Attached File  Foiltop.jpg   75.52K   64 downloads
Attached File  FoilBottom.jpg   82.76K   71 downloads

These can also be used in the F-85SR - just needs to be a little shorter.

We have also just made up some float stern rudder mounts for Jerry Fiat's F-32SR, and these were all epoxy infused carbon, coming out at just 8oz each. Yet max breaking load for each gudgeon is over 20,000lbs - you could hang the whole boat from one rudder!

Attached File  RudderF-32SR.jpg   112.9K   73 downloads

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine
Designs that work...

#27 Chris O

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:22 PM

You're right, B30, what's the attraction?

But then, the same question can be posed for just about any consumer product classes out there. The issue is wildly confusing in the automotive market, for example, where we see very different car types occupying similiar niche environments all the time. One can only conclude that it's a matter of choices offered and it's as simple as that.

With this boat, Marstrom is saying that they have identified a specific niche and expect to see a profit returned for all the design work and tooling that have gone into the boat. To me, it looks like Marstrom is going for a very vertical marketing approach by slotting this boat in under their SC30 and above the previous A-Cat and Marstrom20. The potential customer can look to the same company as they move up in size and performance, knowing that they will get plugged-in at the very highest of performance possibilities within that class.

#28 Multihauler

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:14 PM

Looks like the SeaCart 20OD fits the criteria that some were looking for in the old SAM thread (at perhaps a slightly higher price point).

Sailing Anarchy Multihull (SAM)thread


As much as I like the concept, for me to spend this type of coin on a "toy" is going to require a bit more of a dual purpose boat. As mentioned previously, for overnight, or destination races, having a place for the crew to crash for the night is a BIG plus. As is the ability to load up the family for a weekend of boat camping occasionally.

.........however, I do understand that that is not what THIS boat is about.


As for me.......I am patiently awaiting the day when Mr. Farrier has the time to put to paper a 28 foot version of one of these:

Attached File  f33Sideview05.jpg   29.1K   62 downloads
photo courtesy of Farrier Marine.

-MH

#29 samc99us

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:32 PM

I agree with others in this thread, not enough boat for the cash. Marstrom products are very nice and equally expensive. I don't see a fleet of these being shipped stateside any time soon.

-Sam

#30 Trevor B

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:26 PM

Y'all keep putting Marstrom in the same sentence as SeaCart-26.
Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see Marstrom's name in the literature for the 26,,,,,,?

By the way, the use of 26 in the boat's title seems a bit of an exaggeration since that length INCLUDES the rudders. This is a small, very cool, boat.

#31 Trevor B

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:34 PM

Another little issue for those of us in NorCal is our premier multihull race is the Double Handed Farallones, and the SIs start with "Open by formal application to all single and multihulled
sailing yachts over 18 feet in waterline and 20 feet overall length that have weather-tight, enclosed accommodation for the crew.

I don't think the SC-26 fulfills that requirement. That may not be a deal-breaker, but it's a bummer.

#32 sloansailing

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 11:59 PM

Seems to me the boat is being marketed as a fleet racing boat a la RC44 or X40 but smaller and easier to manage. If you bought 6 of them, managed or owned the class, did very public and exciting racing, and the boats all had big graphics and corporate sponsorship, you might be on to something. Personally I think moving towards this type of organization in the sport would help move sailing into this century. I love what the X40s are doing. Look at auto racing and just about any other televised/publicized sport, thats how they do it.

#33 ctutmark

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:53 AM

Agree with Trevor, bought is being built by CMI in Thailand, same place that built some of the Rogers 46s and Class 40s

Very cool boat either way.


Y'all keep putting Marstrom in the same sentence as SeaCart-26.
Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see Marstrom's name in the literature for the 26,,,,,,?

By the way, the use of 26 in the boat's title seems a bit of an exaggeration since that length INCLUDES the rudders. This is a small, very cool, boat.



#34 AClass USA 230

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 02:43 AM

with the 2rudder seacart30 + seacart26 and the 1rudder multi23 it looks like the medium size racing tri market is full


You forgot the Corsair Sprint 750. It has shown itself to be faster than the Multi 23 upwind in a lot of conditions but its 1,800 lb weight cannot compete against the Multi 23 downwind. It does have a cuddy cabin and is actually quite a nice boat to sail. It will probably be faster than a Melges 32 around a race course in anything over 10 knots.

#35 Multihauler

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 02:51 AM

Y'all keep putting Marstrom in the same sentence as SeaCart-26.
Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see Marstrom's name in the literature for the 26,,,,,,?


Not from me, as I too was noticed that there was no mention of Marstrom. With several here mentioning Marstrom, I was thinking that I must have missed it somewhere in the literature.

-MH

#36 pacice

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:46 AM

This will fit nicely beside the NACRA C20, The AC45 and Seacart 30 in my "marina of dreams".

#37 Y-Bar

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 06:40 AM

Wouldnt get too excited about curved foils at this stage Web site says As curved foils are an optional extra when purchasing a SeaCart 26, a decission on whether they will be permitted within the class rules will be taken when 10 boats are sold.

Dosent look like enough headroom to meet offshore requirements in Aus maybe some else can confirm.

Its definately going to be a rocket ship but how many will they actually sell is the question. There is a very limited marketfor fully blown 26ft tris but I guess they are trying to cash in on the success of the AC trimiran as they use as a reference on the web site.

#38 josselin

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 12:00 PM

3feet more than a Multi 23, 30 000Euros more too...
ie 10,000 per feet?

How much faster will it be? ;)

#39 eric e

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:09 PM

re: marstrom and the seacart 26

on the marstrom website it says

"Seacart 30 -- This trimaran was launched in Všstervik in 2005 and now fifteen boats has been built. All parts are built by MarstrŲm. For price and more information please contact: " http://www.marstrom....id=45&Itemid=73

no mention of the 26...

and on the seacart26 website it says

Composite Marine International (CMI) has been appointed as the official builder of the SeaCart 26. CMI is currently in the final stages of mould construction at their facility in Thailand.

http://seacart26.com...et-to-take-off/

so where you guys getting your marstrom info from???


#40 Chris O

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 01:47 PM


so where you guys getting your marstrom info from???




That's a good question, Eric.

It looks like I conveniently made the jump from previously read literature regarding the SC30, in which it listed Marstrom as a partner. With the SC30 being built by Marstrom, that understanding became more fixed.

Apologies to Carl Hennix and the team at Oceanlake Marine for the mixup.

#41 Dorado

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 02:30 AM

does that mean the next factory option should be a 17-20' racing tri?

will weta go there?




ding ding ding ! we have a winner

I haven't got $100k+ for a toy at the moment.

Haven't these guys been paying atention to the 20' SB market here lately? :blink:

#42 pacice

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 09:25 AM

Posted Image

Here is your 20ft tri
My link

I have also hear Weta is going there.

#43 eric e

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 11:13 AM

on the homebuild side we have chris's europa20, as above, have any been started yet?

also "adventure tri" which is using beachcat hulls for amas to save some work

the tms-20, which is about halfway there?

http://www.themanshe...0-trimaran.html

the plywood w17 tri

http://www.smalltrim....com/index.html

bush sailor's tilt 7, sailing

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=108928

henrikB's very impressive looking boat, sailing

http://forums.sailin...showtopic=82523

and there are also some factory tri's that never seemed to have caught on

to mess with an old chinese curse

"may you live in tri'ing times"

well, there are a lot of people tri'ing at the moment

and it's all good

you know i'll probably slowly get worse now that snow on the beach has basically shutdown my weta sailing for 6 months:o(

#44 Dorado

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 04:22 AM

Best of luck to all of them.

I've heard the rumors of the bigger Weta and I hope it's true.

They might have enough traction and capital to launch a new class boat by now.

I'm also inclined to think that a medium tech level 18' boat @ <$25k has a better chance to prosper
than a high tech 20 footer @ $50k.

Making the jump to the dark side would be a lot easier if you didn't have to spend so much $

#45 samc99us

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Posted 30 October 2010 - 06:46 PM

You don't..buy an F18, get the same amount of speed for $15k. If you want a cabin and offshore performance, the SeaCart 26 doesn't really give you that. If you want a sport boat, buy a sport boat. I think SeaCart has priced themselves out of the sportboat market at $100k, especially given they aren't using Marstrom as a primary supplier on this one. I think their idea is to start a smaller X-40 series, and this would be an ok boat for that, still very pricey imo.

#46 PIL007

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:35 PM

Seems to me the boat is being marketed as a fleet racing boat a la RC44 or X40 but smaller and easier to manage. If you bought 6 of them, managed or owned the class, did very public and exciting racing, and the boats all had big graphics and corporate sponsorship, you might be on to something. Personally I think moving towards this type of organization in the sport would help move sailing into this century. I love what the X40s are doing. Look at auto racing and just about any other televised/publicized sport, thats how they do it.



Bingo Sloan..........the boat is definitely cool. This boat is for the guy that doesn't care about offshore or cruising ability and doesn't want the low tech multi 23 which is $30,000 less but half the boat in many ways. SC26 is state of the art with all the goodies (curved boards,float rudders, light weight, modern sail plan, One design racing, folding / easy set up and towable by a medium sadan) For a few of us in Oz, we feel it may suit what we have been planning already. I would love to see it a bit wider and to be honest if it fit the 8.5 rule it could be a bonus in these parts but you can't have everything. For us the key is getting at least a few of them out there for one design racing.
If the quality is good, the price is right.
There are many views on this boats viability in here but I for one totally get it.

#47 Bob's Your Uncle

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 05:03 AM

Any U.S. based anarchists considering purchasing one (or two, or four) of these beauties?

**Robert Thompson

#48 usa35018

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:24 AM

Any U.S. based anarchists considering purchasing one (or two, or four) of these beauties?

**Robert Thompson


I know there are 3 or 4 people in Nor Cal considering it. Would be some Fast Fun OD racing on SF BAY Posted Image

Me being one of themPosted Image

#49 Greenflash

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:35 AM

I didn't REEAALLY read through this post too well (call me lazy if you like) but what's the status of the boat? Can we get some photos, albeit of moulds/construction?

Really sweet boat.

Gf

#50 eric e

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:14 AM

http://seacart26.com/featured-news/

last update was oct27th
before that oct24th

hopefully there will be a nov. update

why don't you check daily and get back to us when it's updated

to make up for being too lazy to read all the posts in a shortish thread;)

#51 django750

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:54 PM

Hi folks,

Also small and expencive
http://www.vitar23.c...rimaran-vitar23
Verry nice concept but still waiting for orders(investors) before starting production!Posted Image
Just another money spender?

Have fun looking for the right ride.


#52 Y-Bar

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:24 PM

Site only left me wondering how this will get off the ground.
All just pretty graphics at this stage.
Cant believe when you go to news on the web site there isnt any, only pics of the Croatian government buildings :(

#53 DAK

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:40 PM

They show it sailing with center hull and rudder out of the water. How do you steer it?

#54 eric e

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 10:35 PM

very very carefully

strikes me an F23RR

lots of work there

but not much appetite in europe for venture funding to luxury goods makers at the moment

esp. when the more cruise f22 will be popping out of the moulds any moment and the more race? m23 is already on dealer floors

i like the high and low windows inside

hope some get built

#55 eric e

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:21 AM

vitar 23 is 85,000E which on today's rates is US$116,000

presumably an excess of the "naughty noughties" that got stopped dead by the great recession

http://www.vitar23.c...ca3-rezervacije

F22 is probably going to be about US$50,000? with proven heritage, more space and available earlier....

and m23 costs even less??? with less space and available now...

#56 Greenflash

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:58 AM

http://seacart26.com/featured-news/

last update was oct27th
before that oct24th

hopefully there will be a nov. update

why don't you check daily and get back to us when it's updated

to make up for being too lazy to read all the posts in a shortish thread;)


Ok ill be less lazy and post the website photos here.

So... hmmm.... these must be the worst photos in the history of the world. What did they use to take these, a pinhole camera?

Anyway, if they have just finished milling the hull plug then I guess there isn't much to show yet but will keep my eyes peeled for more. Looks like a fun project!

Gf

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#57 Greenflash

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 02:37 AM

Site only left me wondering how this will get off the ground.
All just pretty graphics at this stage.
Cant believe when you go to news on the web site there isnt any, only pics of the Croatian government buildings :(


Quite funny yes but they do have some pretty graphics!

Maybe its because there aren't investors yet.... check the pic I found on the website. LOL

Attached Files



#58 Y-Bar

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 09:20 AM


Site only left me wondering how this will get off the ground.
All just pretty graphics at this stage.
Cant believe when you go to news on the web site there isnt any, only pics of the Croatian government buildings :(


Quite funny yes but they do have some pretty graphics!

Maybe its because there aren't investors yet.... check the pic I found on the website. LOL


There are so many multis out there in this bracket that the product would have to prove its worth before anyone would invest I imagine. I would like to build boats with the support of the government behind me B) .
Must have good incentives in Croatia.
Even the dirt cheap Multi 23 hasnt really taken off in leaps and bounds well not around here anyway and we know most buyers are price orientated.
The Seacart on the other hand has a track record as being a weapon both inshore and offshore so a little smaller one would be more actractive based on the 30s preformance & race results.
Build one at least and prove it has preformance to match or beat the competition and maybe that will get a few investors in then.

With regards to your 40ft container question ther are quite a few very fast multis in OZ and in the Kiwi 8.5 meter class that would be good. Check out the Kiwis web site and others. Raider One Design, Graingers, Egan, Bloomdfield. The Raider is a proven preformer with some accom as well and they were trying to develope a one design class but as always price is the other big issue

#59 Bob's Your Uncle

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:45 AM


Any U.S. based anarchists considering purchasing one (or two, or four) of these beauties?

**Robert Thompson

I know there are 3 or 4 people in Nor Cal considering it. Would be some Fast Fun OD racing on SF BAY Posted Image
Me being one of themPosted Image

Very cool!

Unfortunately, I am neither a left coaster, nor in a financial position to afford one of these beauties. Besides, with a young family, if I were to bring home such a single purpose boat, I would need to have a divorce attorney as crew.Posted Image

Sure would be nice to see an actual >20 foot O.D. Multihull class though!

Maybe time to start playing the Lottery (just in case). Posted Image

**Robert "Uncle Bob" Thompson**

#60 coxcreek

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 06:16 AM

Wait a few months and I'll have this backyard built 25 x 26 foot foiler built. Original design had the single main beam pivoting (which still would be still possible to implement) but I'm building it so the beam is fixed. Oh, yes, compared to Seacart,26, it would be a fraction of the price, that is, building it yourself.

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#61 Doug Lord

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 04:41 AM

Wait a few months and I'll have this backyard built 25 x 26 foot foiler built. Original design had the single main beam pivoting (which still would be still possible to implement) but I'm building it so the beam is fixed. Oh, yes, compared to Seacart,26, it would be a fraction of the price, that is, building it yourself.

=================
Mr. Creek, that is one cool looking design. I was just wondering how does a "foiler" work with no altitude control system or surface piercing foils?
Is the angle of incidence of the foil controlled manually? Do the foils lift the whole boat or do they just generate some RM?
Good Luck!

#62 coxcreek

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 06:08 AM

Well Doug, there have been many foilers that flew that didn't wave wands around - like Williwaw, Icarus 1 and 11, Mayfly, Paul Ricard and its latest speed record holder version Hydroptere, the first VSD, the French foiling Dart, Knaggs Paper Tiger and the early version of his trifoiler, not to mention Flash Harry and Groucho - and I'm sure there are many others. Looking at the foil stabilized ORMA designs sailing in brisk conditions you can really say they are flying too although they are skidding their sterns along on froth ... and to the pedantic, this may be considered not really flying - but to me they do. And they make up a very large number of boats.
The stern view posted was an early one; here is the most recent version ... with surface piercers? And the surface piercing foils at an early stage.Also ideas for a 11 metre wing rig

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#63 Doug Lord

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 03:09 PM

Well Doug, there have been many foilers that flew that didn't wave wands around - like Williwaw, Icarus 1 and 11, Mayfly, Paul Ricard and its latest speed record holder version Hydroptere, the first VSD, the French foiling Dart, Knaggs Paper Tiger and the early version of his trifoiler, not to mention Flash Harry and Groucho - and I'm sure there are many others. Looking at the foil stabilized ORMA designs sailing in brisk conditions you can really say they are flying too although they are skidding their sterns along on froth ... and to the pedantic, this may be considered not really flying - but to me they do. And they make up a very large number of boats.
The stern view posted was an early one; here is the most recent version ... with surface piercers? And the surface piercing foils at an early stage.Also ideas for a 11 metre wing rig

------------------
Maybe you have something there: a combination of surface piercer and fully submerged?

#64 samc99us

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:27 AM

More impressive is you have bits constructed! Any tips on the T-Foils, aka, how the heck did you make the T-joint?

#65 Trevor B

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 04:42 AM

Has anyone gotten a reply from the SC-26 people?
I asked them some specific questions when this thread started and haven't heard back from them. That's not like Calle.

#66 eric e

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 09:26 AM

still haven't updated their news page since oct27...

http://seacart26.com/featured-news/

#67 Chris O

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:27 PM

still haven't updated their news page since oct27...



We live in strange times, economically, eric. There's no telling what conditions with which these guys are having to contend. I've seen lots of companies started-up by folks for whom I have a lot of respect. They get it going and then BAM, the rug is yanked out from beneath their feet and they are in pure survival mode. I'm not saying that I know what is going on with the Seacart 26 info stream. Simply suggesting that there could be a whole series of issues with which to deal.

I wish these guys well. It's tough out there.

Chris O

#68 Trevor B

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 06:48 PM

Has anyone gotten a reply from the SC-26 people?
I asked them some specific questions when this thread started and haven't heard back from them. That's not like Calle.


Ha, ha. Got a reply last night from Tim.
Looks like they're full speed ahead, although they still haven't figured out all the accessory pricing.

#69 coxcreek

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 09:11 PM

Sam, nothing special about the T rudder: core is strip planked Port Orford cedar (it's not really a cedar though) then laminates of carbon and box weave glass and filler finish (to fair against) - the T junction is more laminates of uni directional carbon running over the coved joint (which is originally glued) then glass etc. I've found this connection type to be quite adequate on my other boats, that is, unless you rip into a hidden reef at high speed.

#70 Duff Beer Cruising

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:09 PM


with the 2rudder seacart30 + seacart26 and the 1rudder multi23 it looks like the medium size racing tri market is full

down the bottom is the weta14

does that mean the next factory option should be a 17-20' racing tri?

will weta go there?

columbia32? surely you mean farrier F22

speaking of farrier

now his folding patent has expired?

is this a close copy?


Not a close copy of farrier folding system, it has waterstays, and but one folding strut. The farrier folding system has 2 folding struts, an upper and a lower, turning the entire folding mechanism into a 4-bar-link mechanism that precisely controls the motion and rotation of the ama as it folds in and out. Take a Mechanisms course at your local engineering school to learn all about 4 bar link mechanisms.

This looks to be a close copy of the Reynolds 28 trimaran folding system. It didn't work for randy renolds and it wont work here either.

I'll keep waiting for Ian to finish the F22r production boat.


ditto B)

re f22 - any predictions on when it might reach the US? Any likely builders here?

#71 Ian Farrier

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 10:23 PM



Not a close copy of farrier folding system, it has waterstays, and but one folding strut. The farrier folding system has 2 folding struts, an upper and a lower, turning the entire folding mechanism into a 4-bar-link mechanism that precisely controls the motion and rotation of the ama as it folds in and out. Take a Mechanisms course at your local engineering school to learn all about 4 bar link mechanisms.

This looks to be a close copy of the Reynolds 28 trimaran folding system. It didn't work for randy renolds and it wont work here either.

I'll keep waiting for Ian to finish the F22r production boat.


ditto B)

re f22 - any predictions on when it might reach the US? Any likely builders here?


Latest information on availability is on:

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22Availability.html

and a more detailed update is going out to all on the F-22 email list in the next day or so,

Initial boats will be built in New Zealand and should start shipping to the US in 2011. Once production systems are developed properly there could be two or three manufacturers around the world, but with all key parts such as beams and foils supplied from New Zealand. A US manufacturer is also starting to look more feasible, with the way the US dollar keeps going down.

Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs that work

#72 samc99us

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 12:51 AM

Sam, nothing special about the T rudder: core is strip planked Port Orford cedar (it's not really a cedar though) then laminates of carbon and box weave glass and filler finish (to fair against) - the T junction is more laminates of uni directional carbon running over the coved joint (which is originally glued) then glass etc. I've found this connection type to be quite adequate on my other boats, that is, unless you rip into a hidden reef at high speed.


Thanks for the info. Sounds like a possible solution for some H14 T-rudders. I have enough ruddern hardware for the boat that I can afford to blow some of it up; my biggest concern being the rudder casting inability to deal with the lifting loads for which they weren't designed. I guess I could just go all the way and build some carbon castings. Then move them to a more awesome platform (F16 etc.) when I find a boat in my price range.

#73 eric e

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Posted 21 November 2010 - 04:03 AM

A US manufacturer is also starting to look more feasible, with the way the US dollar keeps going down.


yes, it looks like the pacific peso has moved back north

but they're still spending like it's 1999

which suits some people just fine

http://uncyclopedia.....com/wiki/Pesos




#74 Tim Shuwalow

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:17 AM

Here's the latest news http://seacart26.com/featured-news/

#75 Trevor B

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 02:45 PM

Here's the latest news http://seacart26.com/featured-news/


Couple of questions.

Will there be any room to be down below? Any chance of fulfilling SFBAMA's accommodation rule that I quoted above?

Any drawings/details of the trailer/dolly system?

When will you know the rest of the important prices? Like for the lifting foils.....

#76 Tim Shuwalow

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 04:03 PM

Hi Trevor

There'll be room in the bow with deck hatch access. Whilst it's not designed specifically for accommodation it may satisfy BAMA's requirements. Are there more technical rules than a "weather tight crew compartment" in terms of dimensions or bunks?

The cradle will be similar to any standard hard stand cradle, most likely made of steel with fibre glass hull supports that will sit under bulkheads. Castor type wheels suitable for most surfaces, steerable at the front. U tracks will be available to attach to flat trailers so you can winch the boat up.

Design of the curved foils is in the process of being modified. They will now be retractable and look similar to an ORMA foil without the winglet commonly seen. The redesign has delayed the pricing.
A new boat has just come down 4,000 USD due to exchange rates... get onboard Trevor! ;)

Cheers
Tim

#77 Factory Maid

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 06:50 PM

From the front page:

"Although the ama foils will be an additional extra when purchasing a SeaCart 26, it is expected that they will be popular to achieve maximum performance from the boat. This being the case they will likely be included in the class rules."

If they are to be included in the class rules and one expects that any truly competitive boat within that class will have them, then why in the world does SeaCart bother to charge extra for having them included? More like the foils should be standard equipment on all boats and you can opt-out if you are not considering One Design racing. Why do sailboat companies insist on looking like used car salesmen with all their, added fees based on user interest, strategies? This one is just plain dumb.

#78 Multitrail

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 05:13 PM

From the front page:

"Although the ama foils will be an additional extra when purchasing a SeaCart 26, it is expected that they will be popular to achieve maximum performance from the boat. This being the case they will likely be included in the class rules."

If they are to be included in the class rules and one expects that any truly competitive boat within that class will have them, then why in the world does SeaCart bother to charge extra for having them included? More like the foils should be standard equipment on all boats and you can opt-out if you are not considering One Design racing. Why do sailboat companies insist on looking like used car salesmen with all their, added fees based on user interest, strategies? This one is just plain dumb.


How about yank out the centre board and keep the foils only, this puppy will do more than 10 kn boatspeed 6 days of the week anyway..

#79 Factory Maid

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 07:53 PM

How about yank out the centre board and keep the foils only, this puppy will do more than 10 kn boatspeed 6 days of the week anyway..



Sure, if it can still go upwind with authority.

#80 THOR

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 08:40 PM

well without any steerage in anything than 10 knots you probably will have to stay out and keep sailing instead on making it back to the marina ....

thor

#81 Multitrail

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 09:38 PM

well without any steerage in anything than 10 knots you probably will have to stay out and keep sailing instead on making it back to the marina ....

thor


Ya'll have to aks Larry Ellison bout that...

#82 nige

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 03:55 AM


well without any steerage in anything than 10 knots you probably will have to stay out and keep sailing instead on making it back to the marina ....

thor


Ya'll have to aks Larry Ellison bout that...


Did he have a seacart 26? I thought he had a boat with a TON more righting moment/power that got to crazy boat speeds in low wind ranges that, with the addition of being able to control the angle of the foils in both planes could generate huge amounts of lift in whatever direction they wanted.

Not really a fair comparison. Has to be a really fast boat to warrant not having a daggerboard in sub 10kts I think.

#83 Y-Bar

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 07:41 AM

If its light you lift the dagger up. When is heavy you put it down.
Why would want to get rid of it apart from weight anyway and with respect its probably carbon and weighs two parts of bugger all. That means lightweight if you dont get my drift. ;) This little cart will probably kill anything in sight when it hits the water. Personally I think it might give big brother a touch up in the light stuff.
Make the dagger canting and do the same with the mast and it will kick ass big time.

#84 eric e

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 08:45 AM

hmmm..........that stuff would add even more weight and expense

and from it's polars it would still probably struggle to keep up with the new nacra F20

but i guess it's a better mount for non-sailing ballast crew

#85 vmg

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:02 AM

Nige

bit of a thread hijack but..


how heavy is that blue machine of yours? it hardly seems to touch the water!

#86 Lars SchrÝder D13

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 09:14 AM

how come it is so undercanvased? - the seacart 26 has way lesser sail than the old formula 28 (mainsail +40 sqm for a 500-700 kg trimaran) and even the farrier 8,5 will have more sail? even the little f22R will only have a little lesser sail than the seacart 26? thats not a rocketship....

Lars

#87 Multitrail

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 12:58 PM

hmmm..........that stuff would add even more weight and expense

and from it's polars it would still probably struggle to keep up with the new nacra F20

but i guess it's a better mount for non-sailing ballast crew



Right ! Point is: if the Nacra 20 can do it with "just" one foil in the water why would the Seacart not ?

#88 Tim Shuwalow

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 11:59 AM

For readers of Seahorse Magazine, you'll find a feature on the SeaCart 26 in the December issue. Or download a pdf of the article here http://seacart26.com/featured-news/

#89 Trevor B

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 10:44 PM

Tim,
Any details on the centerboard system? Will the slot be sealed in any way when the board is down? If so, how?
Thanks,
Trevor

#90 eric e

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:39 AM

interesting read

the specs and polars showed it wasn't designed to challenge the big beachcats

which do best on the edge with focused crew on the wire and no one else on board

far too much in the way of skills and commitment to attract middle age mono sailors from their beneteaus

but as the weta is showing the stability and carrying capacity of a square tri can draw monohull sailors looking for a way to double their speeds without the demands of high performance cat sailing

hope it does well

certainly looks tasty!

#91 Tim Shuwalow

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 10:13 AM

Tim,
Any details on the centerboard system? Will the slot be sealed in any way when the board is down? If so, how?
Thanks,
Trevor


Trevor, hope you received my email.

For everyone else interested...

Yes it will have flaps/gaskets that close the case behind the board when it is down and close it totally when up. Similar concept to dinghies and the Tornado boards.

Tim

#92 Basiliscus

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 04:10 AM


Tim,
Any details on the centerboard system? Will the slot be sealed in any way when the board is down? If so, how?
Thanks,
Trevor


Trevor, hope you received my email.

For everyone else interested...

Yes it will have flaps/gaskets that close the case behind the board when it is down and close it totally when up. Similar concept to dinghies and the Tornado boards.

Tim


If you are using flexible flaps, how do you prevent water pressure at high speed from inverting the flaps against the board? Inverted flaps will allow the board to be raised, then jam the board in place and prevent it from being lowered again. And if the flaps are stiff enough to resist the dynamic pressure at high speed over the open portion of the slot, will they be too stiff to allow the board to pass? And what is the effect of bottom paint on the flaps?

This is not just of academic interest to me. I have a centerboard on my tri, and I would love to see a workable to solution to this problem. I ended up just cutting off the paint-stiffened gaskets on my slot because I judged they were just acting like scoops and making the drag worse. And an owner of a somewhat larger tri (who is also a boat-builder and boat-yard owner) had the jammed CB problem I mentioned above. Neither of us have been able to come up with a solution in which I have enough confidence to put on the boat, so I've just left the slot open.

#93 coxcreek

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 07:51 AM

Change to daggerboards; no drag, no jamming, no leaking, better foil shape, easy to maintain and clean ... and so on.

#94 mononowmulti

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:52 PM

Some promotion :) http://seacart26.com/featured-news/

#95 eric e

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:20 PM

the hard wing in the future concepts album interesting...

http://seacart26.com...bum=1&gallery=5

#96 lake Pee

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 12:37 AM

the hard wing in the future concepts album interesting...

http://seacart26.com...bum=1&gallery=5



I disagree, there is nothing interesting about a crude rendering of a 2 element wing. It shows nothing of ideas on how to deal with the real world issues and complications of handling a wing to the average sailor.

Nothing to see here folks, keep moving...

#97 miboe

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:44 AM

looking for a fast trailerabel tri this size, I wonder if the Seacart 26 can be sailed by a crew of two, campstylcruising for two peopel would also be a point on my want to have list. A small cabin is wat I miss most with the SC 26.

#98 vmg

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:00 PM

you can sail anything with a crew of 2 if you get it all set up right.

The 26 looks ideal for double-handing.

Have you had a look at the F22?

#99 miboe

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 06:44 PM

[quote name='vmg' timestamp='1297602018' post='3163727']
you can sail anything with a crew of 2 if you get it all set up right.

The 26 looks ideal for double-handing.

Have you had a look at the F22?

Yes, The F 22 has the kind of cabin I am looking for, but the homepage says there is no garantee in regards to availability of the productionboat, whatever it means. There is also the Corsair Dash that I could have 6 to 8 weeks after order it. Does anybody can tell his expirience with the Corsair Dash compared to the F 22.

#100 bush sailer

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 12:57 AM

Have a look at the Australian multihull championships at Wangi last year. The dash 750 performed very well in heavy air beating the f31s around the coarse and was sailed by husband and wife for some races.




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