262 replies to this topic

[munt]

Interesting that the newer generation of ocean racers such as Sodebo seem to have a very long and pointy main hull and shorter, much less bouyant amas. I like me a big tall bow but the new Irens boats sure seem to work well in the big waters.

[diggler]

Umm, Sodebo cut both floats off and moved them 80cm forward.

[munt]

but they still seem to defy the love of buoancy, rather the whole boat being a wave piercing machine. And pardon my non-euro thinking but isn't 80cm a rather insignificant distance on such a vessel?

[samc99us]

80 cm is the difference between flying and not on a Boeing 747. Its the same principal on these boats. Everything Ian has said is exactly spot on-bottom line you need to design the boat with the foils in mind and "minor" changes like beam placement, foil placement etc. can translate into big gains or big fails, no matter the size of the boat in question.

Any new 85SR's coming to the NE?

[eric e]

Eric,

If you want to the know the price of any Farrier Trimaran or Catamaran from www.multihullsdirect.com, simply send them an enquiry and Michael will send you back a firm price within 24 hours.

very nice, like the slightly reversed bows

so thom

with the sale of plans stopped, if you want an f85sr

you have to buy it from an approved builder

the big ?

so what's it costing you

ps looking at the pics, something mysterious seems to have been blurred out in the background of 2 of them...

i used the email inquiry part of their webpage to ask about the ex-factory cost of the F85SR kit a week ago.....

should i ask again?

[Ian Farrier]

i used the email inquiry part of their webpage to ask about the ex-factory cost of the F85SR kit a week ago.....

should i ask again?

Yes, there is no record of an enquiry, but there have been some web site changes/interruptions over the past week. So try again, or send the enquiry directly to info@multihullsdirect.com

Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs that Work

[eric e]

^
got it now

thanks Michael, Ian

grist for the mind mill

[Vincent DePillis]

Glynn Thomas is expecting his F85 to splash in November. Will it be the first?

Glynn, what are you doing in terms of sails?

Vince

[gthomas72]

Glynn Thomas is expecting his F85 to splash in November. Will it be the first?

Glynn, what are you doing in terms of sails?

Vince

The sails will be coming from Hyde Sails. They have a production loft in Cebu, Philippines, which means a fairly quick turn around.

To start off with, the boat will be coming with a main, headsail and screecher. These are all being ordered by Multihullsdirect. It could have come with a Spinaker, but I dropped this off the list as I have enough to play with to start off.

Cheers
Glynn

[Speng]

is there a furling boom option for the boat?

[Ian Farrier]

is there a furling boom option for the boat?

Yes, it is an option, but not included in the initial plans. However, it is now done, and I will be sending it out to all builders.

Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs That Work

[gthomas72]

After all these months, my F-85 is finally taking shape. It is great to see it with the floats on and I am now starting to appreciate all the outdoor room it comes with. The cabin is a little cramped, but thats the type of boat I wanted so I am not complaining.

Anyway, Christmas has now got in the way of launching the first F-85 in 2012. Whilst it would be great to be sailing it over Christmas, my annual leave will get in the way, so first sailing photo's are now expected in January. I can't blame multihulls direct for the late delivery, the fact was the design was only fully complete in September and some parts have been a little harder to source than expected.

Hope you enjoy the photo's.

Cheers
Glynn


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[Speng]

nice! but the white's a bit boring. Are you going to really need the 4 winches?

[Strategery]

nice! but the white's a bit boring. Are you going to really need the 4 winches?

He'll need all 4. Spinnaker/Jib and Screecher/Jib combos flying at the same time are the norm. It's a good looking boat. Congratulations!

[gthomas72]

nice! but the white's a bit boring. Are you going to really need the 4 winches?

I wanted to paint the boat British Racing Green, as per my profile picture, but was advised against it. Whilst white is boring, no one will dislike a boat because it is white. It is also the "coolest" colour for the tropics as most of the heat is reflected. Even boats with only a slight colour tint are hotter to touch.

I am thinking of getting the hulls wrapped with large vinyl stickers. These seems to be the latest fad these days and if the next owner doesn't like it, they can always be peeled off. I will do this after the initial launching and further research.

As for winches, the plans show 4 winches, so I thought best to do as per the plans. I am sure they will be put to some use.

Cheers
Glynn

[jamez]

nice! but the white's a bit boring. Are you going to really need the 4 winches?

I wanted to paint the boat British Racing Green, as per my profile picture, but was advised against it. Whilst white is boring, no one will dislike a boat because it is white. It is also the "coolest" colour for the tropics as most of the heat is reflected. Even boats with only a slight colour tint are hotter to touch.

I am thinking of getting the hulls wrapped with large vinyl stickers. These seems to be the latest fad these days and if the next owner doesn't like it, they can always be peeled off. I will do this after the initial launching and further research.

As for winches, the plans show 4 winches, so I thought best to do as per the plans. I am sure they will be put to some use.

Cheers
Glynn

Looks bloody nice. You'll find a use for those winches racing. Can't wait to see how she goes..............

[Vincent DePillis]

"I am thinking of getting the hulls wrapped with large vinyl stickers. These seems to be the latest fad these days and if the next owner doesn't like it, they can always be peeled off. I will do this after the initial launching and further research."

Oh dear.

Glynn, just because Luna Rossa has done it does NOT mean you should do it. They are ITALIAN. You are not.

[Robnacra]

Malice the Nacra 36c is all done in vinyl. Great for repairs to as you just have to replace a sticker not try an re-do fancy paint work.

[Speng]

Yeah you can do sick dragons and snakes like those Pescott cats in Thailand

[gthomas72]

I now have a folding trimaran. It folds effortlessly, and for those interested, the folded beam is 2.480m, exactly where is should be. A bit of padding between the floats and main hull at it will still being with the legal road width in most locations.

I expect first mast raising mid Jan and launching at the end of Jan.

Cheers
Glynn
KatRat F-85SR #10
Philippines

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btw, before I get posts asking why I have a 15 hp motor, this is only a template to ensure the outboard support is suitable. I have ordered a Honda 9.9hp long shaft which has yet to arrive.

No sick dragons or snakes yet either.

[eric e]

very nice Glynn

tell us about the rig

[gthomas72]

tell us about the rig

Eric,

I have a standard 11.3m aluminium mast on order, with roller furling boom. It is 8.5 compliant.

Given how light the boat is and that my trimaran sailing experience is near zero, then this will be enough to scare me for at least the first 5 years. After that maybe I will upgrade to the extra tall carbon fibre mast at 12.6m if I sail in light winds.

Gynn

[eric e]

^
thanks, sounds like a reasonable plan

sails to be sourced locally, hongkong, thailand?

just double-reef main and jib to start?

[gthomas72]

sails to be sourced locally, hongkong, thailand?

just double-reef main and jib to start?

Sails and nets are being made by Hyde Sails in Cebu, Philippines.

Will definitely be starting with a reefed main.

Glynn

[Speng]

I have ordered a Honda 9.9hp long shaft which has yet to arrive.

No sick dragons or snakes yet either.

Phwoar, does anybody make new o/b's with less than 8hp anymore? (the 9.9's and the 8's generally weight same - probably the same motor with a bigger carb) becuz 8hp will be more than enuff for you.

Maybe some ill sea monsters... you're in the part of the world for crazy hull graphics.

[patrik111]

Hi all,

We now write February, and I am sure that I speak for many when I say I am quite eager to hear about first splash and experiences.

Looks like a beautiful build

Best of luck with the launch!

[gthomas72]

Sorry chaps, but the F-85 has been held up by getting the mast, outboard and other items imported into the Subic Bay Freeport Zone properly with being stung by customs.

If I wanted to go dragon boat racing, I could but I am a bit to lazy for that so until I have a form of propulsion that does not involve repetitive muscle movement, she is going to have to wait on her trolley.

Cheers
Glynn
F-85SR #10 KatRat
Philippines

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[Try Flying]

Great to see a completed boat... now get that thing in the drink!

Progress is still happening with the two local boats...here's an update pic of the foil mold plug I did for NYX's build.

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[BlackjackF85]

Glynn,
How is it all going?
Any of the outstanding items turning up yet?.
Really looking forward to hearing more about the boat.

[gthomas72]

Hi,

The mast has finally arrived. I will be up in Subic next weekend to see it standing and start the final punch listing for the boat.

Won't be long now before the first test sail.

Cheers
Glynn
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[Dead air]

Have you got an as built weight for the boat?

[Speng]

That's a long prod... i reckon the other boats are going to fear for their virginity when you come by.

[Lighthouse]

That's a long prod... i reckon the other boats are going to fear for their virginity when you come by.

lol - more importantly, that's a pretty wide angle lens... ^^

[gthomas72]

That's a long prod... i reckon the other boats are going to fear for their virginity when you come by.

lol - more importantly, that's a pretty wide angle lens... ^^

The picture was taken on a Canon 10-22 Ultra Wide Angle lens at minimum zoom, but given this is Sailing Anarchy and not a Canon forum I wont go into it.

The prod is standard length, but does add 2m to the length of the boat. It turns my 28 ft boat into a 34 ft long boat.

As for the weight, it has yet to be weighed, but given how easy the boat is moved around the shop, I suspect it is a good light build.

Cheers
Glynn

[Evil Gnome]

I have a few more photos still a way to go, maybe Marley Point next year.
Evil

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[Evil Gnome]

Still in a dilemma, one centre rudder or two on the floats, any thoughts?

[SwissJules]

No brainer, if it flies the main hull, x2.

[nyker]

The F85SR only has marginally more sail area than the F-82R ( unless you go for the unlimited version ). Did you often sail the F82 hull out of the water?

 

The centre rudder is quite long. With the curved foils you'll not be pressing down the lee float much. So, even with the centre hull skimming the water, I think you will have plenty rudder in the water.  Anyway, that is my theory so I'm going for the centre rudder.

 

[Oxygen Mask]

Still in a dilemma, one centre rudder or two on the floats, any thoughts?

 

 

No brainer, if it flies the main hull, x2.

 

Not necessarily true. Many if not most large ocean racing tris fly the mainhull a lot, and only use a single central rudder. 

 

Ama rudders:

More drag (potentially at least in some instances)

More complication  (due to the linkages required and all that.)

More stuff to rig/derig (due to the linkages required and all that.)

Potentially poorer helm feel/tightness (due to the linkages required and all that.)

Fun to put back down if it kicks up. (some sort of gear to do it remotely perhaps, which adds to #2 & 3 above)

And each one has to be large enough and strong enough to do the whole job.

So, more weight.

 

That's a lotta minuses, and not one single plus.

 

Clean and simple seems best - one nice deep blade in a cassette on the mainhull transom.  Proven effective, within easy reach if needed.

[kiwi_bob]

I have a 8.5m Folding tri with twin rudders that I race with the 8.5's in Auckland, I will try and add to the debate below:

 

From Oxygen

 

some points: 

 

Not necessarily true. Many if not most large ocean racing tris fly the mainhull a lot, and only use a single central rudder. 

 

*** Which large ocean racing tris have only one rudder - I cannot actually think of any?? Ormas, MOD70's F40 Tris all have twin rudders. 

All full sized 8.5 tri's in the class currently have twin rudders. 

 

Ama rudders:

More drag (potentially at least in some instances) -

 

*** as you can guarantee the rudders will be fully immersed then you can make them smaller than a big single one which comes in and out of the water. 

If you get the main hull out then drag significantly less. Side note: Main hull flying more a factor of float volume than sail area - at some 

stage you will have enough wind but if you have pissy little floats and a heavy boat like an F24 you will just bury the float rather than fly 

the hull. I'm not 100% sure flying a hull is terribly fast but skimming the centre hull is and every now and then while skimming you will get a 

gust and the centre hull will lift up a meter or so it would not be nice to have a single rudder when this happens. 

 

More complication  (due to the linkages required and all that.) - 

 

*** yes

More stuff to rig/derig (due to the linkages required and all that.) 

 

*** yes is a major pain but the whole trailer folding thing is a pain so I leave it unfolded at a marina now

 

Potentially poorer helm feel/tightness (due to the linkages required and all that.) 

*** Don't believe so. Usually with a big single rudder you end up with huge long wiggly extensions and I think it is better than that regime

 

 

Fun to put back down if it kicks up. (some sort of gear to do it remotely perhaps, which adds to #2 & 3 above)

*** Yes also great for snagging marks if you round too close angled forward rudder means they will never let go either

 

 

And each one has to be large enough and strong enough to do the whole job.

*** Yes, slightly mitigated by the fact they can be smaller

 

So, more weight.

*** Yes 

 

 

That's a lotta minuses, and not one single plus.

*** The plus is you can keep pushing hard (i.e what happens when racing or you will loose) without going out of control at high speed - 

the F85 floats are big enough (from what Ian says similar to what I have) that with or without the foils you will get the main hull 

flying (accidental or deliberate) and then things could get really exciting.

[BlackjackF85]

I plan on initially having one rudder in the main hull. Later when everything else is sorted I'll add rudders to the floats.

That way I can try one rudder , two rudders and even 3 rudders.

I plan on doing a lot of coastal sailing and redundancy in the steering would not be a bad thing.

But until I actually do it I won't really know what I prefer.

I understand  both Team Vodafone and Team Aus  OMR 60 tris run 3 rudders.

[eric e]

^

so it would seem

 

wonder how voda's mast repair is coming along

 

 

 

 

[SwissJules]

Still in a dilemma, one centre rudder or two on the floats, any thoughts?

 

 

>No brainer, if it flies the main hull, x2.

 

Not necessarily true. Many if not most large ocean racing tris fly the mainhull a lot, and only use a single central rudder. 

 

Ama rudders:

More drag (potentially at least in some instances)

More complication  (due to the linkages required and all that.)

More stuff to rig/derig (due to the linkages required and all that.)

Potentially poorer helm feel/tightness (due to the linkages required and all that.)

Fun to put back down if it kicks up. (some sort of gear to do it remotely perhaps, which adds to #2 & 3 above)

And each one has to be large enough and strong enough to do the whole job.

So, more weight.

 

That's a lotta minuses, and not one single plus.

 

Clean and simple seems best - one nice deep blade in a cassette on the mainhull transom.  Proven effective, within easy reach if needed.

 

Biggest positive will be that you'll be able to steer when the main hull breaks out in that random gust at the wrong time.

[diggler]

I only have a little F-24 and I sometimes encounter a swell wavelength and size that leaves me with very little mainhull/rudder in the water, even when reefed fairly conservatively. This usually starts to occur when the sea state is getting to the point where I am steering quite aggressively around the worst waves. If I get a set of these inconvenient waves, the 6-8 inches of rudder left in the water after the first one is inadequate to turn the boat in time for the next wave and the boat ends up getting a pretty hard smack. It can handle it, but I wish I had the control to avoid more of those hits.

 

Wouldn't consider it as a refit, but on a new boat, especially one with substantially higher volume floats than my F-24, I would definitely be pretty interested in figuring out a good system for float rudders.

[Oxygen Mask]

I only have a little F-24 and I sometimes encounter a swell wavelength and size that leaves me with very little mainhull/rudder in the water, even when reefed fairly conservatively. This usually starts to occur when the sea state is getting to the point where I am steering quite aggressively around the worst waves. If I get a set of these inconvenient waves, the 6-8 inches of rudder left in the water after the first one is inadequate to turn the boat in time for the next wave and the boat ends up getting a pretty hard smack. It can handle it, but I wish I had the control to avoid more of those hits.

 

Wouldn't consider it as a refit, but on a new boat, especially one with substantially higher volume floats than my F-24, I would definitely be pretty interested in figuring out a good system for float rudders.

The C-24 rudder is a bit shorter than more current designs.  A more efficient section and a little more depth can make a big difference.

 

Wouldn't you still have the problem of float rudders sometimes coming out of the water in waves?

 

I reshaped my 30 year old rudder, it was really just a plank with the leading edge rounded and the trailing edge tapered. Ugly.  Made a jig and shaped it carefully to a simple NACA section, no deeper but slightly less chord as a result.  Amazing difference!  Steers more accurately, doesn't stall at low speeds, can tack quicker without so much of that sucking sound coming from back there, and in waves it seems to hold its grip better.  I would like to make a new one and go a bit deeper (and make the whole lot lighter)  but it works well enough I haven't bothered.

[Oxygen Mask]

My bad, went back and looked around, and all can find do have 3 rudders.   Didn't see any with only 2.

Here's one showing only one - http://www.nigeliren.../FRAME50tri.htm

Sexy boat.

 

Sometimes it doesn't matter where they are, things are just gonna conspire against you...

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*** Which large ocean racing tris have only one rudder - I cannot actually think of any?? Ormas, MOD70's F40 Tris all have twin rudders. 

All full sized 8.5 tri's in the class currently have twin rudders. 

[diggler]

I have the F-22 rudder. Makes no discernable difference to the situation I outlined.

[diggler]

Wouldn't you still have the problem of float rudders sometimes coming out of the water in waves?

 

How does a trimaran resist capsize from the pressure in the sails? By pushing the leeward ama down into the water. The amas have a much lower heave response amplitude than the main hull, so any action from beam seas is going to tend to throw the boat onto the leeward ama. So yes, the float rudders probably come out of the waves sometimes. But with far less regularity and far less severity than the main hull. 

[gthomas72]

I have just had a great long weekend sailing my F-85SR in Subic Bay. 

 

KatRat was launched on 22nd April, 2013 and was berthed alongside the F-44SC also built by Multihullsdirect.

 

 F-85 Launched.jpg   111.64K   177 downloads

 

On Friday, 26th April, we stepped the mast and took her for the first sail. We very quickly knocked up 10 nm with the boat handling very easily.

 

On Saturday, we decided to join the local fun round the buoys race. In Subic, the racing is very fun and easy going as long as the Beneteau First 36.7 gets line honours. Well this Saturday, status quo changed, as we easily out pointed the monohull and took line honours by a couple of minutes, sailing only Jib and Main on a course, which included a long upwind and downwind leg. Most of the talk after the race was about what handicap they will give us, given they know we are relatively inexperienced and didn't even try to raise the screecher or spinnaker.

 

In light to medium breezes, it was great to see how responsive the trimaran is and how it just seems to keep gliding along, even when the breeze drops out to nothing, allowing us to bridge the wind holes that exist all over the bay.

 

On Sunday, we took her out for another short cruise, but enjoying it so much we stayed out for over 3 hours. With only 3 on board it was still effortless and could easily be sailed 2-up. 

 

We keep the boat partially folded in a pen at the moment and we have lots to do to make it easier to head out and return as we seem to spend a lot of time adjusting the rigging and fixing up the nets. We also need to install the rigging for the screecher and spinnaker. Nonetheless, the boat is fun and easy and I can't wait until the 11/12 May for my next weekend on the boat.

 

Overall it is a great boat and I really have to thank the designer, Ian Farrier and the builder, Michael Mallory for a wonderful boat.

 

The biggest challenge now is to get the boat insured, but that is another story.

 

Cheers

Glynn

KatRat F-85SR #10

Subic Bay, Philippines

 

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[Tucky]

Great looking boat. Congratulations.

[nyker]

Thanks for sharing. Great pics. Regards. Nico

[Occams Razor]

woohoo!

[nroose]

Nice!

[glowmaster]

Enjoy the heck out of that beautiful new tri!

[Ian Farrier]

and coming next.....

 

 F-XX-Side-Photo.jpg   198.03K   47 downloads

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work...

[Airwick]

I see it says F-XX on the picture file name... Is it a stretched out 85 with extra long cabin? Or is it based on the 32 ?

Possibly modified for off-shore racing? Looks like an extended bow (similar proportions to IDEC) with a small Aft cockpit setup for single handed sailing? Or maybe the float next to it belongs to another boat?

I've always wondered about how the distance between the tiller/main traveller and cabin top winches would work out single handed for the small cabin R versions...

Tell us more... (after you give us the new pictures of the 22 ;-))

[eric e]

looks like a cruze...

 

which is no bad thing

 

special order for a transat?

[Ian Farrier]

I see it says F-XX on the picture file name... Is it a stretched out 85 with extra long cabin? Or is it based on the 32 ?

Possibly modified for off-shore racing? Looks like an extended bow (similar proportions to IDEC) with a small Aft cockpit setup for single handed sailing? Or maybe the float next to it belongs to another boat?

I've always wondered about how the distance between the tiller/main traveller and cabin top winches would work out single handed for the small cabin R versions...

Tell us more... (after you give us the new pictures of the 22 ;-))

 

Just a little something extra we have been working on, and much bigger than F-85. More soon.........

 

 F-XX-BowView.jpg   154.25K   37 downloads

 

Busy on the next production F-22 update right now, with 19 new photos coming.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work...

[Airwick]

Ok, it looks really big from that angle, we just need someone to stand next to it so we have a reference but if these are F-85 floats (they look way to small to match that main hull), then it looks like F-39 caliber...

[nyker]

It looks like a new ( semi production by multihulls direct ?) version of the F-32, Ian allready mentioned something in the Cruze 970 topic on this forum. There's a picture there as well, although the cabin looks like it has been extended aft on this boat, leaving a short cockpit.

[gthomas72]

The floats are a good 1.5 m longer than my F-85 floats and they look huge. The fairing has already commenced on the floats. (It is just the angle of the picture that's makes them looks small.) The F-XX is an aft cabin version. I won't give away any more secrets until Ian officially announces it.

My F-85SR is going well. Last weekend I was sailing 2-up with my brother in law who has only sailed twice in his entire life. With just Jib and Main we beat at 45ft racing Monohull and the Beneteau 36.7 over the line by 8 mins for a 100 minute race. Top speed in 15knots of wind was 12.5 knots. Got first and fastest, but was promised that my handicap will be adjusted before next race.

The screeches is now rigged on its furler, so hopefully we can beat that record again this weekend.

Cheers
Glynn
F-85SR #10 KatRat
Subic Bay, Philippines

[rob d]

It might be a good idea to give one of the faster monos your camera before the start and ask if they can take some sailing pictures early on, before you are out of range...Just so we can all have a look.  

[gthomas72]

You mean like this.

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We missed the start by about two minutes so had to play catchup.

Before I get any advice about the sail trim, the halyards are slipping in the spinlocks and the side stays are too long so I can't get them any tighter. Just a few more things to organise.

I will get some better photos once this is all sorted and we have the trimaran, looking like the speed machine that it is.

Cheers
Glynn