125 replies to this topic

[Editor]

Anarchists have already created the top ten excuses that WO will come up with as to why they should not be penalized:

1. We called you on the sat phone but you did not answer so not our fault

2. We are professionals here and that rule is for the punters

3. We were too busy updating Facebook and Twitter.

4. HF is so old fashioned (nobody could work it and we left the manual at home)

5. Everything got wet (but because we not a 40 footer we don't have to retire to Eden)

6. We hit the boat's credit card limit on the downloads so we could not send you an email

7. Lard was downloading an e-mail from Larry

8. We did radio in but could not hear any confirmation with the noise from the engine.


9. None of you will be playing on my Island next year

10. But, we're Wild Oats...


Got an excuse you'd like to add to the list?

[Hein01]

"Too gusty out there, didn't hear ya"

[Boats13]

So, you couldn't find someone that could be us on the water...

[huckster_one]

We took our rules advice from the assistant editor(douche) of a sailing website who wants press boats to be closer to the action. Since our chat with him we decided to give the site(him) what he wants.

[desert olson]

We got here faster than the sat phone could transmit the call.

[GRUMPY]

"Thee original radio call was recorded by Tasman Radio, so we have got evidence of it."

[Junkyard Dog]

"The guys on Wild Thing told us that requirement was only for boats under 15 meters."

[ssenescu]

We got here faster than the sat phone could transmit the call.

I like this one, kind of reminds me of Star Trek, warp speed, "Scotty...."

[Anti Clean]

No, really, it's all cool............don't you see our SAYC sticker?!!!!

[pogen]

A lot of races have very specific penalties for missed check-ins, e.g. 1 hour added to corrected time for every missed check-in. Doesn't S-H have the same? The penalty should just be applied automatically by the RC with no need for a protest hearing.

#8 made me laugh.

[DoRag]

Rules are for other people.

[GRUMPY]

A lot of races have very specific penalties for missed check-ins, e.g. 1 hour added to corrected time for every missed check-in. Doesn't S-H have the same? The penalty should just be applied automatically by the RC with no need for a protest hearing.

#8 made me laugh.

Quite specific in the SIs. It says you're out. There's a thread in ORA

[Junkyard Dog]

A lot of races have very specific penalties for missed check-ins, e.g. 1 hour added to corrected time for every missed check-in. Doesn't S-H have the same? The penalty should just be applied automatically by the RC with no need for a protest hearing.

#8 made me laugh.

Quite specific in the SIs. It says you're out. There's a thread in ORA

Bummer, but rules are rules. I once raced in one-design circuit regatta where we were top 5 in very race the first day and thought we were either in first place or tied for first place in the event. Got back to dock to see our score posted 2, DNC, DNC, DNC. The SIs required that we were to check in with the race committee before the start of every race. We had only formally checked in for the first race of the day. That was a hard lesson in learning to read the SIs thoroughly.

[GRUMPY]

WOX1 is bucking it. See the ORA thread. The check was part of the coroner's recommendations after the 98 Hobart.

I once did a 400 mile race and missed a sked (a few actually, all but the first one). 20% penalty, from the front to the back but they gave us a finish

[Steam Flyer]

... ... ...

I once raced in one-design circuit regatta where we were top 5 in very race the first day and thought we were either in first place or tied for first place in the event. Got back to dock to see our score posted 2, DNC, DNC, DNC. The SIs required that we were to check in with the race committee before the start of every race. We had only formally checked in for the first race of the day. That was a hard lesson in learning to read the SIs thoroughly.

OUCH
that would suck


Lots of times we head off without knowing the course but it's usually easy to figure out, plus it's kind of funny when you're in front and suddenly realize you have to go the other way. Getting a DNS for not checking in would have a very low comedy relief factor.

FB- Doug

[Steam Flyer]

" We -DID- check in, the little red light on the radio was blinking so it must have worked..."

[pogen]

I finished a race in the dark, got a horn and confirmed with the RC on VHF that I had finished, but it was later determined that I hadn't actually crossed the line (I turned too early in fear of running aground in the dark, couldn't see the shore well in the dark). Got a DNF. It was a HTFU moment.

[darkstar32170]

SUN SPOTS!!!

[jhc]

A couple of Transpac races ago there were several boats penalized for not checking in. They were denied trophies, and protested, or appealed the decision. Eventually the appeal was heard and the decision was thrown out, re-instating the boats some 6-8 months after the race. Was a major debacle, and highlighted that once a rule violation has been perceived by the committee, the process becomes very important to the eventual outcome.

In other words the RSHR committee has opened a can of worms with this.

Ultimately this will result in the race rules changing to eliminate the rules that are anachronisms, or impossible to enforce.

Neither safety issues, or intent to break the rule can be proven. The two boat owner's will, and budget, is bigger than the race organization's. If the RC decides to penalize, there could be a long drawn out process that will eventually come to, and mean nothing.

11) Radio check in? We don't need to make no stinking radio check in!

[Delta Blues]

A couple of Transpac races ago there were several boats penalized for not checking in. They were denied trophies, and protested, or appealed the decision. Eventually the appeal was heard and the decision was thrown out, re-instating the boats some 6-8 months after the race. Was a major debacle, and highlighted that once a rule violation has been perceived by the committee, the process becomes very important to the eventual outcome.

In other words the RSHR committee has opened a can of worms with this.

Ultimately this will result in the race rules changing to eliminate the rules that are anachronisms, or impossible to enforce.

Neither safety issues, or intent to break the rule can be proven. The two boat owner's will, and budget, is bigger than the race organization's. If the RC decides to penalize, there could be a long drawn out process that will eventually come to, and mean nothing.

11) Radio check in? We don't need to make no stinking radio check in!

As English is a very imperfect language, the purpose of creating rules is so that all others can find ways around them! Proof as shown in this Transpac story.

[Tuhoe]

I am rich rules don't apply to me

[Tuhoe]

Oh that douche - thank god he doesn't have control of the rule book

We took our rules advice from the assistant editor(douche) of a sailing website who wants press boats to be closer to the action. Since our chat with him we decided to give the site(him) what he wants.

[jhc]

Delta, as this news story shows, http://www.bbc.co.uk...merica-12085405 There is a big difference in writing rules, and the ability to penalize people who break them. I don't think it has much to do with what language is spoken.

[glexpress]

Because they are international media.

It violates their first amendment rights.

[Tuhoe]

Because they are international media.

It violates their first amendment rights.

It's Australia - the First Amendment does not apply there

[glexpress]

I know that, dumb attempt at humor

[NED28]

" We chose to use our black-out period right then..."

But seriously..if they could make a phone call, they were within a couple of miles of land...where is the safety issue?
Seems to me the RC is overreacting...like most people do at anything these days

(OK I have to admit it's also pretty darn stupid from the WO boys not to do it, if it is explicitly in the SI)

[GRUMPY]

Ok.

WOXI should turn the engine off before the start.

The check in is because it's a stretch of water that kills people. Past there you're up shit creek for outside help for a good ways. The radio check is for a reason.

They were never in danger but it is a fossil fuelled boat. Other boats that didn't rely on their engines retired for not making the required HF check in.

[Tuhoe]

That you even start your top ten list even using the word Anarchists, should make some stop and consider the meaning of the word.
Considering the conditions Wild Oats and all the boats who were in this race were forced to endure to survive, let alone thrive and win the race, leaves me with the distinct feeling that you guys and gurls are truly the opposite of any sort of anarchists, sailing or otherwise.

More like golf enthusiasts who would run to support the PGA and grab the US Open trophy away from the guy who just worked his entire life to achieve it beyond his wildest dreams...because he forgot to sign the card. You know, crazily inflexible almost inhuman adherence to rules for their own sake.

That so many boats had to drop out, that so many were damaged, and that the ones which rose to the top against the elements and odds would now be stripped of their great win for lack of a truly unnecessary phone in...well, in my book the circumstances of the sea would easily explain why any boat that had made it through to that point did not have the time to consider the fine print of the rules as they would have had it been a sunny flat day in the park blowing 15. Maybe you have simply never been out there when there was a real question as to whether you could survive at all, let alone finish a race. Overstating this? It would appear to this wayward sailor, that for a site which calls itself Sailing Anarchists, the absolute lock step adherence to rules (shades of your recent questionably tasteful attempt at swastika de-demonizing?) seems much more in keeping with unconscionably inflexible mainstream power structure elite than a group going by the name you chose.

Once more I am amazed at the complete lack of any solidarity, any commiseration, compassion, empathy, or simply respect for one's fellow sailors that tends to exist solely on this particular (sailing) site, which seems to much prefer to spew its aggression and anger in attempts to intimidate, than anything remotely resembling respect for those who exist to remain on top of the ever changing sea.

You guys really should get into golf instead. Middle management white guys with balls and all. More your style. Tally Ho.

Oh cool, so henceforth it doesn't really matter if I don't go around course marks, port and startboard who cares. As long as we battle the elements.

The rule is there for a reason douche bag - it is called SAFETY - or maybe you don't know what that is.

Ever sat in Race Room on the radio at 2 am with a boat in trouble and you don't know where it is because it didn't call in on a compulsory sked - I have - and the air force were out there for 7 hours looking for this idiot.

[westcountry]

Wild Oats and Ran should protest the race comittee. A YMP protest.

If this statemant is True “We broadcast the protests to the Rolex Sydney Hobart fleet at 5.00pm and advised David Kellett on the Radio Relay Vessel to advise the two boats (Wild Oats XI and Rán) of the protest against each one,” Cox confirmed.

Assuming that they said the reason for the protest, then the race comitte has provided outside assistance to the rest of the fleet. It could well be that many others might have used a phone instead of the VHF until they learned of the protest.

Even so the reason for the protest is stated here on public record and anyone could relay that to boats racing. If boats are using phones it would be easy to warn someone.

[Sol Rosenberg]

Missed a sched?

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

[Tuhoe]

Wild Oats and Ran should protest the race comittee. A YMP protest.

If this statemant is True "We broadcast the protests to the Rolex Sydney Hobart fleet at 5.00pm and advised David Kellett on the Radio Relay Vessel to advise the two boats (Wild Oats XI and Rán) of the protest against each one," Cox confirmed.

Assuming that they said the reason for the protest, then the race comitte has provided outside assistance to the rest of the fleet. It could well be that many others might have used a phone instead of the VHF until they learned of the protest.

Even so the reason for the protest is stated here on public record and anyone could relay that to boats racing. If boats are using phones it would be easy to warn someone.

Oh bollocks - what outside assistance - RC is required to advise ASAP that the protest has been made

[GRUMPY]

SP city now.

[Harpoon]

That you even start your top ten list even using the word Anarchists, should make some stop and consider the meaning of the word.
Considering the conditions Wild Oats and all the boats who were in this race were forced to endure to survive, let alone thrive and win the race, leaves me with the distinct feeling that you guys and gurls are truly the opposite of any sort of anarchists, sailing or otherwise.

More like golf enthusiasts who would run to support the PGA and grab the US Open trophy away from the guy who just worked his entire life to achieve it beyond his wildest dreams...because he forgot to sign the card. You know, crazily inflexible almost inhuman adherence to rules for their own sake.

That so many boats had to drop out, that so many were damaged, and that the ones which rose to the top against the elements and odds would now be stripped of their great win for lack of a truly unnecessary phone in...well, in my book the circumstances of the sea would easily explain why any boat that had made it through to that point did not have the time to consider the fine print of the rules as they would have had it been a sunny flat day in the park blowing 15. Maybe you have simply never been out there when there was a real question as to whether you could survive at all, let alone finish a race. Overstating this? It would appear to this wayward sailor, that for a site which calls itself Sailing Anarchists, the absolute lock step adherence to rules (shades of your recent questionably tasteful attempt at swastika de-demonizing?) seems much more in keeping with unconscionably inflexible mainstream power structure elite than a group going by the name you chose.

Once more I am amazed at the complete lack of any solidarity, any commiseration, compassion, empathy, or simply respect for one's fellow sailors that tends to exist solely on this particular (sailing) site, which seems to much prefer to spew its aggression and anger in attempts to intimidate, than anything remotely resembling respect for those who exist to remain on top of the ever changing sea.

You guys really should get into golf instead. Middle management white guys with balls and all. More your style. Tally Ho.

Oh cool, so henceforth it doesn't really matter if I don't go around course marks, port and startboard who cares. As long as we battle the elements.

The rule is there for a reason douche bag - it is called SAFETY - or maybe you don't know what that is.

Ever sat in Race Room on the radio at 2 am with a boat in trouble and you don't know where it is because it didn't call in on a compulsory sked - I have - and the air force were out there for 7 hours looking for this idiot.

-----



Surely I must be a douche bag to consider that being on the side of not penalizing these boats for phoning in instead of calling in via VHF (is that what they really are saying????, it all does seem like a load of hooey to me)--- must have put not only myself, nearly every other sailor on the course and their families in extreme danger, and the RC obviously could not allow this precedent to stand. Reasonable. And you're right, what I meant was truly why should you go around course marks, screaming starboard when you don't even know the rules properly instead of acting like gentlemen as a rule and giving way, when you could be out there on the open ocean truly experiencing what men over centuries have actually considered real sailing to be.

Yes, I am a douche, and worse, and my posting would set a dangerous precedent for an irresponsible and dangerous flaunting of the rules of racing as you know them so categorically well. I am surprised the ed did not strike my post down forthwith.

[Tuhoe]

That you even start your top ten list even using the word Anarchists, should make some stop and consider the meaning of the word.
Considering the conditions Wild Oats and all the boats who were in this race were forced to endure to survive, let alone thrive and win the race, leaves me with the distinct feeling that you guys and gurls are truly the opposite of any sort of anarchists, sailing or otherwise.

More like golf enthusiasts who would run to support the PGA and grab the US Open trophy away from the guy who just worked his entire life to achieve it beyond his wildest dreams...because he forgot to sign the card. You know, crazily inflexible almost inhuman adherence to rules for their own sake.

That so many boats had to drop out, that so many were damaged, and that the ones which rose to the top against the elements and odds would now be stripped of their great win for lack of a truly unnecessary phone in...well, in my book the circumstances of the sea would easily explain why any boat that had made it through to that point did not have the time to consider the fine print of the rules as they would have had it been a sunny flat day in the park blowing 15. Maybe you have simply never been out there when there was a real question as to whether you could survive at all, let alone finish a race. Overstating this? It would appear to this wayward sailor, that for a site which calls itself Sailing Anarchists, the absolute lock step adherence to rules (shades of your recent questionably tasteful attempt at swastika de-demonizing?) seems much more in keeping with unconscionably inflexible mainstream power structure elite than a group going by the name you chose.

Once more I am amazed at the complete lack of any solidarity, any commiseration, compassion, empathy, or simply respect for one's fellow sailors that tends to exist solely on this particular (sailing) site, which seems to much prefer to spew its aggression and anger in attempts to intimidate, than anything remotely resembling respect for those who exist to remain on top of the ever changing sea.

You guys really should get into golf instead. Middle management white guys with balls and all. More your style. Tally Ho.

Oh cool, so henceforth it doesn't really matter if I don't go around course marks, port and startboard who cares. As long as we battle the elements.

The rule is there for a reason douche bag - it is called SAFETY - or maybe you don't know what that is.

Ever sat in Race Room on the radio at 2 am with a boat in trouble and you don't know where it is because it didn't call in on a compulsory sked - I have - and the air force were out there for 7 hours looking for this idiot.

-----



Surely I must be a douche bag to consider that being on the side of not penalizing these boats for phoning in instead of calling in via VHF (is that what they really are saying????, it all does seem like a load of hooey to me)--- must have put not only myself, nearly every other sailor on the course and their families in extreme danger, and the RC obviously could not allow this precedent to stand. Reasonable. And you're right, what I meant was truly why should you go around course marks, screaming starboard when you don't even know the rules properly instead of acting like gentlemen as a rule and giving way, when you could be out there on the open ocean truly experiencing what men over centuries have actually considered real sailing to be.

Yes, I am a douche, and worse, and my posting would set a dangerous precedent for an irresponsible and dangerous flaunting of the rules of racing as you know them so categorically well. I am surprised the ed did not strike my post down forthwith.

I am sure it is hooey to you.

Do you actually know why the rule is there? Probably not. We should all strike out to sea and be "men" - go for it and enjoy. Bet you were one of those that supported Abby Sutherland as well - she went for it

[Stiffler's Mom]

Their modem was too busy playing X box 360 and watching porn.

[Harpoon]

That you even start your top ten list even using the word Anarchists, should make some stop and consider the meaning of the word.
Considering the conditions Wild Oats and all the boats who were in this race were forced to endure to survive, let alone thrive and win the race, leaves me with the distinct feeling that you guys and gurls are truly the opposite of any sort of anarchists, sailing or otherwise.

More like golf enthusiasts who would run to support the PGA and grab the US Open trophy away from the guy who just worked his entire life to achieve it beyond his wildest dreams...because he forgot to sign the card. You know, crazily inflexible almost inhuman adherence to rules for their own sake.

That so many boats had to drop out, that so many were damaged, and that the ones which rose to the top against the elements and odds would now be stripped of their great win for lack of a truly unnecessary phone in...well, in my book the circumstances of the sea would easily explain why any boat that had made it through to that point did not have the time to consider the fine print of the rules as they would have had it been a sunny flat day in the park blowing 15. Maybe you have simply never been out there when there was a real question as to whether you could survive at all, let alone finish a race. Overstating this? It would appear to this wayward sailor, that for a site which calls itself Sailing Anarchists, the absolute lock step adherence to rules (shades of your recent questionably tasteful attempt at swastika de-demonizing?) seems much more in keeping with unconscionably inflexible mainstream power structure elite than a group going by the name you chose.

Once more I am amazed at the complete lack of any solidarity, any commiseration, compassion, empathy, or simply respect for one's fellow sailors that tends to exist solely on this particular (sailing) site, which seems to much prefer to spew its aggression and anger in attempts to intimidate, than anything remotely resembling respect for those who exist to remain on top of the ever changing sea.

You guys really should get into golf instead. Middle management white guys with balls and all. More your style. Tally Ho.

Oh cool, so henceforth it doesn't really matter if I don't go around course marks, port and startboard who cares. As long as we battle the elements.

The rule is there for a reason douche bag - it is called SAFETY - or maybe you don't know what that is.

Ever sat in Race Room on the radio at 2 am with a boat in trouble and you don't know where it is because it didn't call in on a compulsory sked - I have - and the air force were out there for 7 hours looking for this idiot.

-----



Surely I must be a douche bag to consider that being on the side of not penalizing these boats for phoning in instead of calling in via VHF (is that what they really are saying????, it all does seem like a load of hooey to me)--- must have put not only myself, nearly every other sailor on the course and their families in extreme danger, and the RC obviously could not allow this precedent to stand. Reasonable. And you're right, what I meant was truly why should you go around course marks, screaming starboard when you don't even know the rules properly instead of acting like gentlemen as a rule and giving way, when you could be out there on the open ocean truly experiencing what men over centuries have actually considered real sailing to be.

Yes, I am a douche, and worse, and my posting would set a dangerous precedent for an irresponsible and dangerous flaunting of the rules of racing as you know them so categorically well. I am surprised the ed did not strike my post down forthwith.

I am sure it is hooey to you.

Do you actually know why the rule is there? Probably not. We should all strike out to sea and be "men" - go for it and enjoy. Bet you were one of those that supported Abby Sutherland as well - she went for it

nope, i like jessica watson. her's was a great and well organized effort start to finish (if you don't count her idiotically going to sleep in the shipping lanes first night out) and meant to succeed. She was cut from the right proper stuff.

You per do not however appear to be.

this will be my last missive on this newly contrived controversy

[Mud sailor]

Maybe an Aussie can check this but Bloomberg is saying that in 2001 Tyco was disqualified for almost the same issue (this time being 7 minutes late!)

can anyone check?

[GRUMPY]

Been plenty tossed for not honouring the check.

ORA thread

[Tuhoe]

Been plenty tossed for not honouring the check.

ORA thread

Grumpy exactly - so why make an exception for WO - nless win number 5 anf having a rich owner make a difference this time

[GRUMPY]

Not my gig. Ask a higher power....

[Tuhoe]

That you even start your top ten list even using the word Anarchists, should make some stop and consider the meaning of the word.
Considering the conditions Wild Oats and all the boats who were in this race were forced to endure to survive, let alone thrive and win the race, leaves me with the distinct feeling that you guys and gurls are truly the opposite of any sort of anarchists, sailing or otherwise.

More like golf enthusiasts who would run to support the PGA and grab the US Open trophy away from the guy who just worked his entire life to achieve it beyond his wildest dreams...because he forgot to sign the card. You know, crazily inflexible almost inhuman adherence to rules for their own sake.

That so many boats had to drop out, that so many were damaged, and that the ones which rose to the top against the elements and odds would now be stripped of their great win for lack of a truly unnecessary phone in...well, in my book the circumstances of the sea would easily explain why any boat that had made it through to that point did not have the time to consider the fine print of the rules as they would have had it been a sunny flat day in the park blowing 15. Maybe you have simply never been out there when there was a real question as to whether you could survive at all, let alone finish a race. Overstating this? It would appear to this wayward sailor, that for a site which calls itself Sailing Anarchists, the absolute lock step adherence to rules (shades of your recent questionably tasteful attempt at swastika de-demonizing?) seems much more in keeping with unconscionably inflexible mainstream power structure elite than a group going by the name you chose.

Once more I am amazed at the complete lack of any solidarity, any commiseration, compassion, empathy, or simply respect for one's fellow sailors that tends to exist solely on this particular (sailing) site, which seems to much prefer to spew its aggression and anger in attempts to intimidate, than anything remotely resembling respect for those who exist to remain on top of the ever changing sea.

You guys really should get into golf instead. Middle management white guys with balls and all. More your style. Tally Ho.

Oh cool, so henceforth it doesn't really matter if I don't go around course marks, port and startboard who cares. As long as we battle the elements.

The rule is there for a reason douche bag - it is called SAFETY - or maybe you don't know what that is.

Ever sat in Race Room on the radio at 2 am with a boat in trouble and you don't know where it is because it didn't call in on a compulsory sked - I have - and the air force were out there for 7 hours looking for this idiot.

-----



Surely I must be a douche bag to consider that being on the side of not penalizing these boats for phoning in instead of calling in via VHF (is that what they really are saying????, it all does seem like a load of hooey to me)--- must have put not only myself, nearly every other sailor on the course and their families in extreme danger, and the RC obviously could not allow this precedent to stand. Reasonable. And you're right, what I meant was truly why should you go around course marks, screaming starboard when you don't even know the rules properly instead of acting like gentlemen as a rule and giving way, when you could be out there on the open ocean truly experiencing what men over centuries have actually considered real sailing to be.

Yes, I am a douche, and worse, and my posting would set a dangerous precedent for an irresponsible and dangerous flaunting of the rules of racing as you know them so categorically well. I am surprised the ed did not strike my post down forthwith.

I am sure it is hooey to you.

Do you actually know why the rule is there? Probably not. We should all strike out to sea and be "men" - go for it and enjoy. Bet you were one of those that supported Abby Sutherland as well - she went for it

nope, i like jessica watson. her's was a great and well organized effort start to finish (if you don't count her idiotically going to sleep in the shipping lanes first night out) and meant to succeed. She was cut from the right proper stuff.

You per do not however appear to be.

this will be my last missive on this newly contrived controversy

We agree on Watson

[Steam Flyer]

Missed a sched?

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

And in the middle of it all, the Germans attacked Pearl harbor

DSK

[Tuhoe]

Missed a sched?

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

And in the middle of it all, the Germans attacked Pearl harbor

DSK

Bugger me is that what happened to Pearl Harbour and why - I had no idea that ultimately the Sydney to Hobart was responsible

[westcountry]

Wild Oats and Ran should protest the race comittee. A YMP protest.

If this statemant is True "We broadcast the protests to the Rolex Sydney Hobart fleet at 5.00pm and advised David Kellett on the Radio Relay Vessel to advise the two boats (Wild Oats XI and Rán) of the protest against each one," Cox confirmed.

Assuming that they said the reason for the protest, then the race comitte has provided outside assistance to the rest of the fleet. It could well be that many others might have used a phone instead of the VHF until they learned of the protest.

Even so the reason for the protest is stated here on public record and anyone could relay that to boats racing. If boats are using phones it would be easy to warn someone.

Oh bollocks - what outside assistance - RC is required to advise ASAP that the protest has been made

yes they do but they dont need to tell sailing anarchy and the rest of the fleet

[vtsail]

Missed a sched?

No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.

And in the middle of it all, the Germans attacked Pearl harbor

DSK

Bugger me is that what happened to Pearl Harbour and why - I had no idea that ultimately the Sydney to Hobart was responsible

Surprised this has taken so long.....

F*&^ off Newbie and show us some tits

[raisehull]

hf? HF??? WE Don't need no stinking HF!!!!

[Snow Guy]

PAAA- Don't mind the moron. He set up the handle to tell the world how great Reid Stowe's is. Doubt he's ever been out of the Hudson River. Doesn't seem to have any clue of how rules work and why they are there either. And every post/topic comes back to "anarchy."

[Tuhoe]

Wild Oats and Ran should protest the race comittee. A YMP protest.

If this statemant is True "We broadcast the protests to the Rolex Sydney Hobart fleet at 5.00pm and advised David Kellett on the Radio Relay Vessel to advise the two boats (Wild Oats XI and Rán) of the protest against each one," Cox confirmed.

Assuming that they said the reason for the protest, then the race comitte has provided outside assistance to the rest of the fleet. It could well be that many others might have used a phone instead of the VHF until they learned of the protest.

Even so the reason for the protest is stated here on public record and anyone could relay that to boats racing. If boats are using phones it would be easy to warn someone.

Oh bollocks - what outside assistance - RC is required to advise ASAP that the protest has been made

yes they do but they dont need to tell sailing anarchy and the rest of the fleet

True - SA was the priority

[Somebody Else]

Something about this whole debacle smells foul.

I reread the story on the mythical front page and saw where WOXI and Ran used phones to report their position. Satellite phones, I presume.

• So they are getting tossed for breaking the letter of the rule, not the intent of the rule. Safety was not the issue here at all; the issue is one of pedantic formality.
• They are getting tossed for using better, clearer, easier-to-use radio technology than the century-old technology spelled out in the SIs.
• They are getting tossed, essentially, for using the wrong radio frequency or band.

They reported in on schedule; they used the best technology for the job at hand but they used the wrong frequency band.

Is there anything fundamentally incorrect in the facts I just stated above?

[v92]

The dog ate my SI's.

[Tuhoe]

Something about this whole debacle smells foul.

I reread the story on the mythical front page and saw where WOXI and Ran used phones to report their position. Satellite phones, I presume.

• So they are getting tossed for breaking the letter of the rule, not the intent of the rule. Safety was not the issue here at all; the issue is one of pedantic formality.
• They are getting tossed for using better, clearer, easier-to-use radio technology than the century-old technology spelled out in the SIs.
• They are getting tossed, essentially, for using the wrong radio frequency or band.

They reported in on schedule; they used the best technology for the job at hand but they used the wrong frequency band.

Is there anything fundamentally incorrect in the facts I just stated above?

Nope - you covered it.

However other boats have been tossed in previous races for comitting the same offense.

As I understand it, happy to be proven wrong, the rule was bought in after the 98 Hobart when a lot of guys died and has been emphasised time after time.

In 5 previous Hobarts WO has adhered to that rule, this time they chose not to. Interesting to find out why this time they decided not to follow the rule.

[Lono]

Seems to me the purpose of the check in is to do 2 different things before heading out into the Bass Straight. First, a typical position sched and second, to show that you have an adequate working HF radio. The committee made a clear comment that in the event of rescue operations an operating radio, not sat phone, is necessary to coordinate rescue efforts. They made these decisions after past tragedies and have made clear that it is an important rule to follow by having detailed a very severe penalty for failure to follow. Everyone else managed to follow this rule, if WO is unable to prove that they did indeed follow said rule then the penalty is pretty clear and deserved. IF however they show that they did in fact validly meet the requirements of the rule then congrats on the line honors.

The one caveat that I would waffle behind is the language in the rules that seem to offer up an alternative in the event that the radio was not working. It could be argued that there is an inconsistency in the written rules and that they are at least contradictory in which case WO might be entitled to a pass...

[cosmicsedso]

We took our rules advice from the assistant editor(douche) of a sailing website who wants press boats to be closer to the action. Since our chat with him we decided to give the site(him) what he wants.

Its Marks turn for excuses not Wharros!

[cosmicsedso]

Oh that douche - thank god he doesn't have control of the rule book

We took our rules advice from the assistant editor(douche) of a sailing website who wants press boats to be closer to the action. Since our chat with him we decided to give the site(him) what he wants.

A new member for 6 minutes and already slinging off at clean.
Sock puppet!
Do it with your REAL name and you may get some cred. Behind a mask?
Fail!

[cosmicsedso]

I know that, dumb attempt at humor

Very!

[jfunk]

So WO XI and RAN failed to comply with rules and continue on and expect a result.

Whereas Two True, last years real winner cant get its engine going at Green Cape also a safety requirement, same as the HF radio requirement and so retires.

The rule has to be enforced.

[cosmicsedso]

Something about this whole debacle smells foul.

I reread the story on the mythical front page and saw where WOXI and Ran used phones to report their position. Satellite phones, I presume.

• So they are getting tossed for breaking the letter of the rule, not the intent of the rule. Safety was not the issue here at all; the issue is one of pedantic formality.
• They are getting tossed for using better, clearer, easier-to-use radio technology than the century-old technology spelled out in the SIs.
• They are getting tossed, essentially, for using the wrong radio frequency or band.

They reported in on schedule; they used the best technology for the job at hand but they used the wrong frequency band.

Is there anything fundamentally incorrect in the facts I just stated above?

Complete lack of knowledge of the FACTS maybe?
Or were you on Board WO?

[Junkyard Dog]

So WO XI and RAN failed to comply with rules and continue on and expect a result.

Whereas Two True, last years real winner cant get its engine going at Green Cape also a safety requirement, same as the HF radio requirement and so retires.

The rule has to be enforced.

Well, at least WOXI didn't have to worry about that!

[cosmicsedso]

So WO XI and RAN failed to comply with rules and continue on and expect a result.

Whereas Two True, last years real winner cant get its engine going at Green Cape also a safety requirement, same as the HF radio requirement and so retires.

The rule has to be enforced.

Well, at least WOXI didn't have to worry about that!

I wonder what they get in MPG?

My take on this is simple.
These rules came from suggestions from the Coroner after a deadly event. PEOPLE DIED!
I suggest that anyone who has never sailed Bass Strait has no business criticising the safety procedures deemed necessary to look after the WHOLE fleet and also the people who have to go out in those conditions to rescue and assist.
This is not a joke. Bass Strait kills

[House Salad]

Seems to me the purpose of the check in is to do 2 different things before heading out into the Bass Straight. First, a typical position sched and second, to show that you have an adequate working HF radio. The committee made a clear comment that in the event of rescue operations an operating radio, not sat phone, is necessary to coordinate rescue efforts. They made these decisions after past tragedies and have made clear that it is an important rule to follow by having detailed a very severe penalty for failure to follow. Everyone else managed to follow this rule, if WO is unable to prove that they did indeed follow said rule then the penalty is pretty clear and deserved. IF however they show that they did in fact validly meet the requirements of the rule then congrats on the line honors.

The one caveat that I would waffle behind is the language in the rules that seem to offer up an alternative in the event that the radio was not working. It could be argued that there is an inconsistency in the written rules and that they are at least contradictory in which case WO might be entitled to a pass...

I completely agree:
A boat that is unable to contact “JBW”
may attempt to contact Hobart Race
Control to fulfil the requirements of this
SI.
Seems to give WO an out. Seems to me that if you "contact" Hobart Race Control via Sat Phone this is "contact". Nowhere in this sentence do they say this must be done by HF Radio.

[Tuhoe]

So WO XI and RAN failed to comply with rules and continue on and expect a result.

Whereas Two True, last years real winner cant get its engine going at Green Cape also a safety requirement, same as the HF radio requirement and so retires.

The rule has to be enforced.

Well, at least WOXI didn't have to worry about that!

I wonder what they get in MPG?

My take on this is simple.
These rules came from suggestions from the Coroner after a deadly event. PEOPLE DIED!
I suggest that anyone who has never sailed Bass Strait has no business criticising the safety procedures deemed necessary to look after the WHOLE fleet and also the people who have to go out in those conditions to rescue and assist.
This is not a joke. Bass Strait kills

I agree - I have raced in Bass Strait - unless you have been there in 40 knots you haven't got a clue

[ropetrick]

The first requirement of the rule was a working HF radio. NO radio; do not cross the strait. Simple.

[raw god]

I finished a race in the dark, got a horn and confirmed with the RC on VHF that I had finished, but it was later determined that I hadn't actually crossed the line (I turned too early in fear of running aground in the dark, couldn't see the shore well in the dark). Got a DNF. It was a HTFU moment.

Yea ummm ……………..My fault sorry about that one!!

[cosmicsedso]

So WO XI and RAN failed to comply with rules and continue on and expect a result.

Whereas Two True, last years real winner cant get its engine going at Green Cape also a safety requirement, same as the HF radio requirement and so retires.

The rule has to be enforced.

Well, at least WOXI didn't have to worry about that!

I wonder what they get in MPG?

My take on this is simple.
These rules came from suggestions from the Coroner after a deadly event. PEOPLE DIED!
I suggest that anyone who has never sailed Bass Strait has no business criticising the safety procedures deemed necessary to look after the WHOLE fleet and also the people who have to go out in those conditions to rescue and assist.
This is not a joke. Bass Strait kills

I agree - I have raced in Bass Strait - unless you have been there in 40 knots you haven't got a clue

40 knots is a good day in Bass Strait.
I reckon 60 knots is whats normal for a good blow and often it gets much higher. BUT its not so much the wind as the waves and swell.
With 60+ and huge broken waves its scary stuff.
Total respect is required
This area has a history of fatalities to more than rival the Bermuda Triangle
Just trying to put it into perspective here

[bundy]

My take on this is simple.
These rules came from suggestions from the Coroner after a deadly event. PEOPLE DIED!
I suggest that anyone who has never sailed Bass Strait has no business criticising the safety procedures deemed necessary to look after the WHOLE fleet and also the people who have to go out in those conditions to rescue and assist.
This is not a joke. Bass Strait kills



+1

[solosailor]

But seriously..if they could make a phone call, they were within a couple of miles of land...where is the safety issue?
Seems to me the RC is overreacting...like most people do at anything these days

Not a cell phone call from a land based antenna but a Sat Phone.... that works everywhere. Also, how can the RC overreact to a rule? I don't agree with all rules, however if I wish to play in that sandbox that's what it takes.

[Obsessed]

I say DSQ them. As a cynical person I say that it was probably an attempt to cover there position because no one lese can hear a sat phone call. If there HF wasnt working then they shouldnt have crossed the strait.

Just because your rich and have the fastest media tart boat in the fleet dosent mean the rules dont apply. Rules are there for their own safety

[Gonçalo Silva]

A true shame for the guys that faced the weather on Bass Straight. Rules are rules and need to be applied. Probably the organizers just need to rewrite them to make the penalty a corrected time deduction instead of DSQ. Read the SI better next time!

[Lono]

A true shame for the guys that faced the weather on Bass Straight. Rules are rules and need to be applied. Probably the organizers just need to rewrite them to make the penalty a corrected time deduction instead of DSQ. Read the SI better next time!

Disagree,,, only rewrite them if they are contradictory or not clear. My sense is that they don't want the penalty to be simply a correction in elapsed time. They want 100% compliance and as such wrote the ruple with a severe penalty. Follow the rules or get flicked...

[bunghole]

"at least I tried semaphore off eden. I think I told them to suck my balls though "

[Gonçalo Silva]

The Sked?? My dog ate it...

[FASTBOB]

But channel 7 knew were we were

[Tuhoe]

The first requirement of the rule was a working HF radio. NO radio; do not cross the strait. Simple.

And they admitted that their HF was not working - Cahalan rang via phone to advise of that and they were told not to proceed - then they rang back by phone to say it was working, but continued to report skeds by phone not HF.

If that is true - then they are screwed

[Gonçalo Silva]

A true shame for the guys that faced the weather on Bass Straight. Rules are rules and need to be applied. Probably the organizers just need to rewrite them to make the penalty a corrected time deduction instead of DSQ. Read the SI better next time!

Disagree,,, only rewrite them if they are contradictory or not clear. My sense is that they don't want the penalty to be simply a correction in elapsed time. They want 100% compliance and as such wrote the ruple with a severe penalty. Follow the rules or get flicked...

You got a point aswell. Probably is the intent of the rule but the penalty can be severe enough but still give the boats a finish time. I say, send them to the bottom of the board, but with a finish.

[Tuhoe]

But channel 7 knew were we were

Good old Larry - would you rely on him to fight his way out of a paper bag - bugger that, sooner rely on Martians

[Essex]

Can't help to have the owner hit the dock and declare that the RC is wrong and they will have to apologize.
What a dick.
WOXI is loosing all kinds of cool here, not like they have never won line honors before.

[bobmor99]

The wind died. Smoke signals seemed more appropriate.
Surely the RC could adapt.

[SR CHIEF (RET)]

Humor aside, the comm check in with HF was a result of loss of life. The SI spells it out the safety and weather brief prior to the race was reinforced. Safety,safety, safety. HF comms suck at times, I'm sure WO and RAN will go to the room and plead their respective cases, but in the end all yachts are required to check in on the required freq., that the RC as well as the aus., and hobart cg are monitoring to assist if required. Score them as finishing, send them to the bottom of the list... All that being said, if they can show that the hf radio transmitter or ant., were degraded from the weather and used a backup source for check in nother matter. Bottom line these 2 owners have the bank for the very best comm gear and the very best minds to ensure that the required check in is complete...

[Naptime]

We were logged into SA, looking for the Friday post.

[Tuhoe]

The wind died. Smoke signals seemed more appropriate.
Surely the RC could adapt.

Why should the RC adapt - these two wealthy guys broke the rule - a rule which is there to assist save lives

[SR CHIEF (RET)]

The wind died. Smoke signals seemed more appropriate.
Surely the RC could adapt.

Why should the RC adapt - these two wealthy guys broke the rule - a rule which is there to assist save lives

concur

[bowman81]

The wind died. Smoke signals seemed more appropriate.
Surely the RC could adapt.

Why should the RC adapt - these two wealthy guys broke the rule - a rule which is there to assist save lives

concur

maybe he was complying with the spirit of this thread and making a humorous top ten reason why they didn't call in, don't know just speculating.

[Evo]

The wind died. Smoke signals seemed more appropriate.
Surely the RC could adapt.

Why should the RC adapt - these two wealthy guys broke the rule - a rule which is there to assist save lives

concur

maybe he was complying with the spirit of this thread and making a humorous top ten reason why they didn't call in, don't know just speculating.

hang on sparky...they were just getting started and you have to throw a bucket of sanity across the deck. opportunity only knocks so often ya know

there have never been anything but the latest comms in the big red car and Captain Feathersword was calling the shots while the red Wiggle slept. keep up people

[SR CHIEF (RET)]

The wind died. Smoke signals seemed more appropriate.
Surely the RC could adapt.

Why should the RC adapt - these two wealthy guys broke the rule - a rule which is there to assist save lives

concur

Like I said if there were 2 boats that have the resources those were the 2...
maybe he was complying with the spirit of this thread and making a humorous top ten reason why they didn't call in, don't know just speculating.

hang on sparky...they were just getting started and you have to throw a bucket of sanity across the deck. opportunity only knocks so often ya know

there have never been anything but the latest comms in the big red car and Captain Feathersword was calling the shots while the red Wiggle slept. keep up people

[ropetrick]

Captain Feathersword.

Noice!

[I'moutahere]

It's the Bass Strait Quadrangle - sorta like the Bermuda Triangle. Radio signals get sucked into the fifth dimension sometimes.

[Somebody Else]

The first requirement of the rule was a working HF radio. NO radio; do not cross the strait. Simple.

And they admitted that their HF was not working - Cahalan rang via phone to advise of that and they were told not to proceed - then they rang back by phone to say it was working, but continued to report skeds by phone not HF.

Is there a boat manager that dropped the ball here?

"Is the boat ready for the race?"
"Yes, sir. 100 percent, sir."
Oops!

[SR CHIEF (RET)]

The first requirement of the rule was a working HF radio. NO radio; do not cross the strait. Simple.

And they admitted that their HF was not working - Cahalan rang via phone to advise of that and they were told not to proceed - then they rang back by phone to say it was working, but continued to report skeds by phone not HF.

Is there a boat manager that dropped the ball here?

"Is the boat ready for the race?"
"Yes, sir. 100 percent, sir."
Oops!

zactly...

[F-18 5150]

We tried to Radio in but "The Front (Antenna) fell off".

[jfunk]

Its been a tough year financially, maybe Bob couldnt afford a HF.

[2 guys on the edge]

'PerAngustaAdAugusta'

Why should the RC adapt - these two wealthy guys broke the rule - a rule which is there to assist save lives

What the hell does wealth have to do with it?

[no one important]

It's the Bass Strait Quadrangle - sorta like the Bermuda Triangle. Radio signals get sucked into the fifth dimension sometimes.

flick em both. they did not follow the rules-pretty simple
whatever/whoever/wherever blah blah dont work

[Wash]

Rules are rules-- but the rules will be modified and changed as technology advances--- which will be a result of this issue brought forth by the RC-- and in the big picture everyone knows WO won line honors no matter what is recorded as "official". HF radio is a moving target, always has been-- Commercial shipping professionals use other technologies for their communications now, HF is a last resort. Perhaps it is time for the SH pros to push for this as well.

Why the RC is protesting a competitor is interesting, since the SIs say score a DNF if no check in, then simply score them as such and let the competitor file for redress. RCs protesting competitors is something that I am not familiar with.

[GRUMPY]

Something about this whole debacle smells foul.

I reread the story on the mythical front page and saw where WOXI and Ran used phones to report their position. Satellite phones, I presume.

• So they are getting tossed for breaking the letter of the rule, not the intent of the rule. Safety was not the issue here at all; the issue is one of pedantic formality.
• They are getting tossed for using better, clearer, easier-to-use radio technology than the century-old technology spelled out in the SIs.
• They are getting tossed, essentially, for using the wrong radio frequency or band.

They reported in on schedule; they used the best technology for the job at hand but they used the wrong frequency band.

Is there anything fundamentally incorrect in the facts I just stated above?

Yes. All of your bullets are up to shit.

When you're in Bass Strait and all fucked up and you grab that sat phone and call your pan or mayday to race control is the boat 2 miles east of you going to hear your call and be able to assist?

What if race control is on another call. "Your call is very important to us. Please hold and you will be directed to the first available operator"

The radio check was introduced after the 98 Hobart and is a result of recommendations of the coroner's enquiry. It's all about safety.

[jimbot]

They were on hold with Peggy.

[CAL21]

Just in - WOXI is the Winner of the 2010 S2H

[GRUMPY]

Subject to protest. RC too pussy to do the job.

[Somebody Else]

Something about this whole debacle smells foul.

I reread the story on the mythical front page and saw where WOXI and Ran used phones to report their position. Satellite phones, I presume.

• So they are getting tossed for breaking the letter of the rule, not the intent of the rule. Safety was not the issue here at all; the issue is one of pedantic formality.
• They are getting tossed for using better, clearer, easier-to-use radio technology than the century-old technology spelled out in the SIs.
• They are getting tossed, essentially, for using the wrong radio frequency or band.

They reported in on schedule; they used the best technology for the job at hand but they used the wrong frequency band.

Is there anything fundamentally incorrect in the facts I just stated above?

Yes. All of your bullets are up to shit.

When you're in Bass Strait and all fucked up and you grab that sat phone and call your pan or mayday to race control is the boat 2 miles east of you going to hear your call and be able to assist?

What if race control is on another call. "Your call is very important to us. Please hold and you will be directed to the first available operator"

The radio check was introduced after the 98 Hobart and is a result of recommendations of the coroner's enquiry. It's all about safety.

Good point.

They did break the intent of the rule.

[the violator]

Captain Feathersword.

Noice!

speaking of captain feathersword i have been wondering what kind of boat is the good ship feathersword