3712 replies to this topic

[coxcreek]

Why should the bases of the trailing wing shaped frames be filleted right across the back of the D? The widest parts are glued, therefore that is attachment to the strongest and stiffest sections. Filleting the inner areas would do sweet FA. Also if there is movement(?) in the D spar, then not being filleted right across the base would allow some fractional flexing without twisting the D base areas apart. Just guessing of course.

[nav]

Why should the bases of the trailing wing shaped frames be filleted right across the back of the D? The widest parts are glued, therefore that is attachment to the strongest and stiffest sections. Filleting the inner areas would do sweet FA. Also if there is movement(?) in the D spar, then not being filleted right across the base would allow some fractional flexing without twisting the D base areas apart. Just guessing of course.

I didn't say they should be attached that way, I said it looked to me that they were attached that way. The ribs in the flaps also appear to be attached that way though it is hard to be certain of any of this stuff.

Here's a shot that I think is pretty conclusive - feel free to post what you have

[nav]

OK where are our people on the ground. It's understandable that the NZ press is busy with other issues but who can find out what is happening to the broken wing. It hasn't shown up on the webcam at back at Warkworth. I assumed it would have to go back into the assembly jig there to align and bond the replacement ribs. So either it is there but out of view or it's back at the viaduct or maybe in Cayards garage??

Anyone?

[dalenz]

Was down there wednsday afternoon.

Lower half of wing was there, stripped of its covering.

Very simple elegant design.

No sign of the top half.

By the way, it is a bead of grey epoxy.

[nav]

Was down there wednsday afternoon.

Lower half of wing was there, stripped of its covering.

Very simple elegant design.

No sign of the top half.

By the way, it is a bead of grey epoxy.

Thanks for that, so where is the busted bit? I remember IM saying that it needed about 2kg of carbon and the workers time to fix it, but that "they were being payed anyway". That seemed to indicate Core to me. Maybe they have it in the 'paint shed' out the back at Warkworth.

[Stingray]

Thanks for that, so where is the busted bit? I remember IM saying that it needed about 2kg of carbon and the workers time to fix it, but that "they were being payed anyway". That seemed to indicate Core to me. Maybe they have it in the 'paint shed' out the back at Warkworth.

Yep, IM said in the interview when Cayard was standing next to him that the section would be taken to Core. Since it is not in the webcam view it must be elsewhere in the shop.

[nav]

Thanks for that, so where is the busted bit? I remember IM saying that it needed about 2kg of carbon and the workers time to fix it, but that "they were being payed anyway". That seemed to indicate Core to me. Maybe they have it in the 'paint shed' out the back at Warkworth.

Yep, IM said in the interview when Cayard was standing next to him that the section would be taken to Core. Since it is not in the webcam view it must be elsewhere in the shop.

Another video? Or the one they made on the day of the infamous lunch 'break'?

[Stingray]

Another video? Or the one they made on the day of the infamous lunch 'break'?

Ha!

Yep - that's the video I thought it got said in, and they also mentioned 2lbs of carbon, and about people being on the payroll anyway. Could have been elsewhere, it definitely got said or written but I think they said 'up to Warkworth' not 'Core' in case you try search text for it.

[Xlot]

Apart from this, any definite, satisfactory, don't-do-this-again explanation of what really happened?

[Stingray]

Apart from this, any definite, satisfactory, don't-do-this-again explanation of what really happened?

Sounds from all accounts like it was stopped, a gust from 10 degrees off hit them, the wing powered up in reverse and tried to take the boat backward, the sugar scoops dug in, and over she went, slowly, backwards, because the boat could not stay under the wing. Must have been a combination of bad luck, incorrect (or too close to the wind) trim, and perhaps lack of communication between helm and trimmer?

[Danno]

Add in the fact the leeward mainsheet winch was not eased, when the wing back winded, it powered up and over she went.........Crew fuck up!

[Guitar]

I classify it as a perfect example of "SHIT HAPPENS".

Thanks for the clarification on the build. Obviously in the construction of the wings, destruction was considered?

[maxmini]

The prediction was that the boat would be back in the water this week. As this week is about gone I would think we should have at least seen something closer to completion. Any one seen anything positive ?

[Xlot]

Sounds from all accounts like it was stopped, a gust from 10 degrees off hit them, the wing powered up in reverse and tried to take the boat backward, the sugar scoops dug in, and over she went, slowly, backwards, because the boat could not stay under the wing. Must have been a combination of bad luck, incorrect (or too close to the wind) trim, and perhaps lack of communication between helm and trimmer?

That's what transpired from initial reports - except I don't understand how the wing could be pushing backward so much - it couldn't have stalled, and the normal drag component associated with wing lift shouldn't be enough to overturn the boat

Add in the fact the leeward mainsheet winch was not eased, when the wing back winded, it powered up and over she went.........Crew fuck up!

This would be compatible with the Cayard comment, but it's a totally different story: standard lateral capsize

So, what really happened?

[Stingray]

Sounds from all accounts like it was stopped, a gust from 10 degrees off hit them, the wing powered up in reverse and tried to take the boat backward, the sugar scoops dug in, and over she went, slowly, backwards, because the boat could not stay under the wing. Must have been a combination of bad luck, incorrect (or too close to the wind) trim, and perhaps lack of communication between helm and trimmer?

That's what transpired from initial reports - except I don't understand how the wing could be pushing backward - it couldn't have stalled

Maybe instead of being 'powered up' the wind simply blew it over backwards? The dang wing is about twice as tall as the boat is long, right?

TH tells an account in TD$, he also says what the others have, that it went over backwards, slowly, and that the scoops dug in during.

[nav]

Sounds from all accounts like it was stopped, a gust from 10 degrees off hit them, the wing powered up in reverse and tried to take the boat backward, the sugar scoops dug in, and over she went, slowly, backwards, because the boat could not stay under the wing. Must have been a combination of bad luck, incorrect (or too close to the wind) trim, and perhaps lack of communication between helm and trimmer?

That's what transpired from initial reports - except I don't understand how the wing could be pushing backward - it couldn't have stalled

Maybe instead of being 'powered up' the wind simply blew it over backwards? The dang wing is about twice as tall as the boat is long, right?

TH tells an account in TD$, he also says what the others have, that it went over backwards, slowly, and that the scoops dug in during.

Well Danno's comment suggests he has some inside scoop. The only place I have heard mention of any backwards, or tripping over scoops is speculation on these forums. It would have been nice if the Boat Captain had been clearer but it seemed they were all being a bit coy that day, and trying not to step on each others toes.

[Lostmydetailsagain]

Sounds from all accounts like it was stopped, a gust from 10 degrees off hit them, the wing powered up in reverse and tried to take the boat backward, the sugar scoops dug in, and over she went, slowly, backwards, because the boat could not stay under the wing. Must have been a combination of bad luck, incorrect (or too close to the wind) trim, and perhaps lack of communication between helm and trimmer?

That's what transpired from initial reports - except I don't understand how the wing could be pushing backward - it couldn't have stalled

Maybe instead of being 'powered up' the wind simply blew it over backwards? The dang wing is about twice as tall as the boat is long, right?

TH tells an account in TD$, he also says what the others have, that it went over backwards, slowly, and that the scoops dug in during.

Well Danno's comment suggests he has some inside scoop. The only place I have heard mention of any backwards, or tripping over scoops is speculation on these forums. It would have been nice if the Boat Captain had been clearer but it seemed they were all being a bit coy that day, and trying not to step on each others toes.

The backwards, scoops digging in story is what the people working on the "free" design package of ACRM are going on (and making 1 or 2 adjustments to the current project). By he way, the platform design (overseen by VPLP) and the wing package (North Technologies) should be ready by Sept so you could start building if you can't afford a design team of your own to actually make the in-the-water-deadline.

[Xlot]

Well Danno's comment suggests he has some inside scoop. The only place I have heard mention of any backwards, or tripping over scoops is speculation on these forums. It would have been nice if the Boat Captain had been clearer but it seemed they were all being a bit coy that day, and trying not to step on each others toes.

The backwards, scoops digging in story is what the people working on the "free" design package of ACRM are going on (and making 1 or 2 adjustments to the current project). By he way, the platform design (overseen by VPLP) and the wing package (North Technologies) should be ready by Sept so you could start building if you can't afford a design team of your own to actually make the in-the-water-deadline.

And I am accused of being a tease .. Can't you tell a little bit more?

Just chasing shadows here, but (contradicting myself) when Cayard says "good thing it happened on a 45 rather than a 72" he could be hinting at a backwards flip and the lesson learned would be the need of wide, buoyant sterns (my idea, Simon ). In fact, if it was a 'simple' case of the wing backwinding and leeward sheet not eased, there would be little to learn except the crew must not act stoopid.

Now, IF it was a backflip, it would be deeply ironic: the 45's designers justified their 'reluctant' decision to build a new boat over adapting an X40 with the need of providing a higher margin against pitchpoling, and in fact this better behavior is apparent. But, by adopting non-buoyant stern scoops (admittedly justified by ease of access to connecting bolts and removable rudders) in terms of margin against a backflip you have a boat that's as long as an X40, with a rig that is 2.5m taller!

[Xlot]

Brought here for convenience:

.. the "freak" gust of wind "caught us unawares", causing the cat to keep "going over and over and tipped right upside down", according to ACRM's Troy Tindall!?! Seems to me to be literal damage control from ACRM. Someone screwed up big time and ACRM is protecting him...

Where does he say that, cannot find it - and the boat did not go full turtle, clearly

From sail world

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Americas-Cup-Prototype-boat-flips-in-high-winds/80500

From your link:

the boat reared and flipped backwards

Can that be right?

Most definitely! I don't know anything of the incident, so this is about wings in general. If you backwind a wing, it doesn't luff. It produces reverse thrust. If you have the "traveler" (really the sheet) wrong in a tack, you can end up backwinding the wing as you come through the wind. I've pitchpoled a landyacht backwards when the wingmast fluttered in a tack, producing a similar drag.

The other way to do it is to release the traveler with the flap deflected (cambered up), and not have the camber come out because of friction. Unlike a soft sail, the wing won't necessarily go to zero lift when it is left free. The moment from the flap will trim the wing at a negative angle of attack, and produce negative lift. On the AC45, there's enough friction in the control system that the flap can be left enough deflection to allow the wing to freely trim with enough lift to fly a hull. I can see a scenario in which the crew gets startled by a puff, dumps the traveler, the wing trims to negative lift, causing the boat to stop and pitchpole backwards.

Again, I couldn't find the "the boat reared and flipped backwards" quote.

[Xlot]

Afterthought: forget the lee sheet, what about the weather backstay? My theory is that, due to slack shrouds and very shallow wing step overlap, one backstay has to be taut at all times - this could be very awkward if the wing backwinds.

[kiwi_jon]

Again, I couldn't find the "the boat reared and flipped backwards" quote.

Richard has done a spinray and edited his article. Initially it was titled 'America's Cup Prototype boat flips in high winds' but that was a load of bollocks. The breeze was 10-12knts maybe gusting 15. There was nothing in the weather that afternoon that would cause a 'freak' gust. The breeze only started picking up to around 20knts around 5pm that afternoon. Hours after the AC34 capsized.

In the initial article Richard reported that 'the boat reared and flipped backwards'. That is no longer there. Other reports had it gently tipping over on it's side.

There have been 4 different versions of what they were doing when the boat capsized, they were having lunch, they were doing maintenance, they were fixing the furler and they were working on the wing.

The amount of damage to the wing would indicate a bit more than a gentle capsize onto the wing or it could be possible that the damage to the wing was deliberate to reduce water pressure on the wing to get the thing back upright.

We will never know what happened as ACRM have wrapped it up in cotton wool. I am sure there was video and photo taken at the time but it will never see the light of day in the foreseeable future.

[Xlot]

Thanks

The amount of damage to the wing would indicate a bit more than a gentle capsize onto the wing or it could be possible that the damage to the wing was deliberate to reduce water pressure on the wing to get the thing back upright.

Agree, I'm focusing on the flaps: how could they detach them unless the hinges had snapped off? That would be consistent with a slow, partial backflip (or they wouldn't have been able to right the boat and damage would have been much more extensive), where flaps would be bent by their own buoyancy at 90 degrees to the wing. Or maybe the boat tripped diagonally on one hull and came to rest sideways.

We will never know what happened as ACRM have wrapped it up in cotton wool. I am sure there was video and photo taken at the time but it will never see the light of day in the foreseeable future.

A real shame, don't you think? Particularly compared to the daily videos they inundate(d) us with.

[nav]

Thanks

The amount of damage to the wing would indicate a bit more than a gentle capsize onto the wing or it could be possible that the damage to the wing was deliberate to reduce water pressure on the wing to get the thing back upright.

Agree, I'm focusing on the flaps: how could they detach them unless the hinges had snapped off? That would be consistent with a slow, partial backflip (or they wouldn't have been able to right the boat and damage would have been much more extensive), where flaps would be bent by their own buoyancy at 90 degrees to the wing. Or maybe the boat tripped diagonally on one hull and came to rest sideways.

We will never know what happened as ACRM have wrapped it up in cotton wool. I am sure there was video and photo taken at the time but it will never see the light of day in the foreseeable future.

A real shame, don't you think? Particularly compared to the daily videos they inundate(d) us with.

Xlot in conspiracy speculation shocker!

[Xlot]

^^
Shoo nav - if you keep quiet, I'll throw you a bone about the epoxy putty beads: they are not there for the ribs (coxcreek's right about stresses not going further than the corner), but to stiffen the "I beam" part of the "D" spar against buckling.

[Basiliscus]

Again, I couldn't find the "the boat reared and flipped backwards" quote.

I posted based on quotes in other posts, and I should have waited to research the incident more. I was really responding to the question as to whether it was possible to flip backwards or not, and it is definitely possible, even though that wasn't the case this time.

The boat was not backing down, and it was not a backwards pitchpole - the scoops had nothing to do with it. The boat went over sideways.

[Stingray]

It is not a direct TH quote, and TH was not even there, but fwiw here's a snip from the TDS article I mentioned:

--
As to Artemis Racing's capsize of the AC45, Hutchinson confirms that it occurred while the boats had been brought to a standstill and the crew were taking five as they sorted out a jammed furling line. A gust caught the wing, the boat started reversing with the crew unable to react in time as the transom scoops dug in causing the AC45 to flip over...backwards.
--

[Xlot]

The boat was not backing down, and it was not a backwards pitchpole - the scoops had nothing to do with it. The boat went over sideways.

Many thanks for clarifying that. But then what went wrong - sheet or backstay?

[maxmini]

The boat was not backing down, and it was not a backwards pitchpole - the scoops had nothing to do with it. The boat went over sideways.

Many thanks for clarifying that. But then what went wrong - sheet or backstay?

This is becoming more of a story than it ever should have been . Boats " fall over " all the time . Its not like this was the first one and there is no disgrace in it . Had they been up front in the beginning this would have all gone away by now. Instead we have had big wind, freak puff, fell over back wards , dug in the rear scoops, damaged hull, NO damaged hull, No big wind, turned turtle, damaged the RIGHT wing and now it just fell over on its side . Also of interest is that the boat was supposed to be on the water as early as Thursday and it is now Saturday and no one even knows where the parts are. To go from live video of everything except watching the workers take a dump to this is way too telling . You know every second that boat was on the water it was being videoed . The lack of detailed info after so much transparency is more damaging than anything that could have actually happened .

[nav]

This is becoming more of a story than it ever should have been . Boats " fall over " all the time . Its not like this was the first one and there is no disgrace in it . Had they been up front in the beginning this would have all gone away by now. Instead we have had big wind, freak puff, fell over back wards , dug in the rear scoops, damaged hull, NO damaged hull, No big wind, turned turtle, damaged the RIGHT wing and now it just fell over on its side . Also of interest is that the boat was supposed to be on the water as early as Thursday and it is now Saturday and no one even knows where the parts are. To go from live video of everything except watching the workers take a dump to this is way too telling . You know every second that boat was on the water it was being videoed . The lack of detailed info after so much transparency is more damaging than anything that could have actually happened .

Marine Recreational Forecasts - Auckland
5:01 AM February 26, 2011Area Description:Manukau and Waitemata Harbours, Hauraki Gulf and Bream Head to Cape Colville.Situation:A southwest flow over the area should ease on Sunday as a ridge moves onto the North Island. The ridge should move away to the east early Tuesday, turning the flow northwest.Warnings:Wind warning NilForecast:For the Manukau and Waitemata Harbours: Saturday: Southwest 15 knots, easing to 10 knots mid morning, then rising to 15 knots for a time this afternoon and evening. Sea slight. Fine spells. For the Hauraki Gulf and from Bream Head to Cape Colville: Saturday: Southwest 20 knots gusting 30 knots easing to 15 knots mid morning, then rising to 20 knots gusting 30 knots for a time this afternoon and evening. Moderate sea easing to slight mid morning, then becoming moderate again for a time this afternoon and evening. Fine.Outlook:Outlook until midnight Tuesday: Sunday: Southwest 15 knots. Few showers possible. Monday: Variable 10 knots. Mainly fine. Tuesday: Northerly 20 knots developing. Fine.Swell:Swell forecast to midnight Tuesday: East Coast: Easterly 2 metres, easing to 1.5 metres today and to 1 metre Sunday. West Coast: Southwest 2 metres, easing to 1.5 metres Sunday and to 1 metre Monday.



Artemis will be pleased with that. They won't want any 'gusts' or 'high winds' this time. Get those cameras rolling if you want to catch the action and W1.1.

[maxmini]

This is becoming more of a story than it ever should have been . Boats " fall over " all the time . Its not like this was the first one and there is no disgrace in it . Had they been up front in the beginning this would have all gone away by now. Instead we have had big wind, freak puff, fell over back wards , dug in the rear scoops, damaged hull, NO damaged hull, No big wind, turned turtle, damaged the RIGHT wing and now it just fell over on its side . Also of interest is that the boat was supposed to be on the water as early as Thursday and it is now Saturday and no one even knows where the parts are. To go from live video of everything except watching the workers take a dump to this is way too telling . You know every second that boat was on the water it was being videoed . The lack of detailed info after so much transparency is more damaging than anything that could have actually happened .

Marine Recreational Forecasts - Auckland
5:01 AM February 26, 2011Area Description:Manukau and Waitemata Harbours, Hauraki Gulf and Bream Head to Cape Colville.Situation:A southwest flow over the area should ease on Sunday as a ridge moves onto the North Island. The ridge should move away to the east early Tuesday, turning the flow northwest.Warnings:Wind warning NilForecast:For the Manukau and Waitemata Harbours: Saturday: Southwest 15 knots, easing to 10 knots mid morning, then rising to 15 knots for a time this afternoon and evening. Sea slight. Fine spells. For the Hauraki Gulf and from Bream Head to Cape Colville: Saturday: Southwest 20 knots gusting 30 knots easing to 15 knots mid morning, then rising to 20 knots gusting 30 knots for a time this afternoon and evening. Moderate sea easing to slight mid morning, then becoming moderate again for a time this afternoon and evening. Fine.Outlook:Outlook until midnight Tuesday: Sunday: Southwest 15 knots. Few showers possible. Monday: Variable 10 knots. Mainly fine. Tuesday: Northerly 20 knots developing. Fine.Swell:Swell forecast to midnight Tuesday: East Coast: Easterly 2 metres, easing to 1.5 metres today and to 1 metre Sunday. West Coast: Southwest 2 metres, easing to 1.5 metres Sunday and to 1 metre Monday.



Artemis will be pleased with that. They won't want any 'gusts' or 'high winds' this time. Get those cameras rolling if you want to catch the action and W1.1.

Well it is about 11 am on sat . Has anyone seen anything ?

[SW Sailor]

AC45 Operations update from Auckland

By ORACLE Racing Communications Team

AC45 operations in Auckland continue at a hectic pace. Following her capsize from a standstill (as a furling line was being fixed) in the hands of Artemis Racing, repairs to the prototype AC45 have continued this week.

The wing was re-filmed yesterday. Once back in the hands of ACRM, the AC45 training programme will continue. The current plan has Artemis Racing projected to resume its sailing activities on Sunday from the ACRM base in Team New Zealand's former 'Black Sheds' in Auckland's Viaduct Harbour.

Core Builders Composites and Cookson Boats have been busy with the first customer boats with the first two entered teams due to receive their boats in the next three to four days. The order and delivery process is handled by ACRM in accordance with its published procedures.

Designed and engineered by ORACLE Racing in close cooperation with Core Builders Composites, the production tooling created for the AC45 is now permitting remarkably fast output of this sophisticated wingsailed catamaran class. In five weeks time, five AC45s are scheduled to be finished, launched and ready to race in an ACRM shake-down test event.

[maxmini]

AC45 Operations update from Auckland

By ORACLE Racing Communications Team

AC45 operations in Auckland continue at a hectic pace. Following her capsize from a standstill (as a furling line was being fixed) in the hands of Artemis Racing, repairs to the prototype AC45 have continued this week.

The wing was re-filmed yesterday. Once back in the hands of ACRM, the AC45 training programme will continue. The current plan has Artemis Racing projected to resume its sailing activities on Sunday from the ACRM base in Team New Zealand's former 'Black Sheds' in Auckland's Viaduct Harbour.

Core Builders Composites and Cookson Boats have been busy with the first customer boats with the first two entered teams due to receive their boats in the next three to four days. The order and delivery process is handled by ACRM in accordance with its published procedures.

Designed and engineered by ORACLE Racing in close cooperation with Core Builders Composites, the production tooling created for the AC45 is now permitting remarkably fast output of this sophisticated wingsailed catamaran class. In five weeks time, five AC45s are scheduled to be finished, launched and ready to race in an ACRM shake-down test event.

So they were three days optimistic with the amount of actual damage they incurred . Not the end of the world and at least they have a " projected ' time to get back on the water . Good news finally

[ncs]

Well it is about 11 am on sat . Has anyone seen anything ?

Wing is there, platform rolled out, chaseboat going in the water.

[maxmini]

Well it is about 11 am on sat . Has anyone seen anything ?

Wing is there, platform rolled out, chaseboat going in the water.

Thats a good start ! Video cameras fully charged ? LOL

[maxmini]

Well it is about 11 am on sat . Has anyone seen anything ?

Wing is there, platform rolled out, chaseboat going in the water.

Thats a good start ! Video cameras fully charged ? LOL

Four hours later anything ? Class ?? Bueller ???

[Cruz]

they are sailing. AC45 and wing is not in the shed. However, there seems to be a second wing or something that has no skin...  Screen shot 2011-02-26 at 4.30.24 PM.png   841.67K   15 downloads

[Cruz]

 Screen shot 2011-02-26 at 4.30.43 PM.png   727.96K   3 downloads

[Cruz]

 Screen shot 2011-02-26 at 4.30.54 PM.png   716.25K   21 downloads

[Stingray]

^ Sweet, if they really are out sailing then the wing you photographed is fresh from Core, not joined yet. Either W2 or W3.

I snapped this from at Core earlier, with the way it was back-lit it sure looked like two wings had left. Did you see any flaps? Probably 6 of them have left too.

 Warkworth-Feb-25_2.jpg   53K   16 downloads

[Cruz]

yeah, there were some flap shaped pieces I noticed. I'll try to get down tomorrow and get pictures...

does anyone know what time they usually go out in the morning?

[SimonN]

Core Builders Composites and Cookson Boats have been busy with the first customer boats with the first two entered teams due to receive their boats in the next three to four days. The order and delivery process is handled by ACRM in accordance with its published procedures.

I wonder who will get these boats. In theory, it should be OR and ML, but where is ML? Will the second boat go to Artemis?

In five weeks time, five AC45s are scheduled to be finished, launched and ready to race in an ACRM shake-down test event.

So we will see another 3 after OR and whichever team is second. The question is whether they actually have 3 more deposits. I note they say that the boats will be ready to sail in a shake-down event but no mention of delivering to other teams. If I were a betting man, I would bet on them having only 2 deposits.

[Stingray]

Who cares about the deposits situation? It is insignificant in the larger scheme.

My question is more about if there will be 5 including the ACRM boat or 5 new ones by then. Either way will be a lot of fun but the more the better.

[maxmini]

Who cares about the deposits situation? It is insignificant in the larger scheme.

My question is more about if there will be 5 including the ACRM boat or 5 new ones by then. Either way will be a lot of fun but the more the better.

Well if there are no deposits ther will be no sailors . Seeing 5 boats on the hooks isn't really that interesting

[Stingray]

I just think it is pathetic to be worrying about that. If 5 teams have their new boats, then quite obviously they bought them. Why should it be a surprise, or even a question? It just isn't that much money, barely more than an X40 despite being 3 times as cool.

[maxmini]

I just think it is pathetic to be worrying about that. If 5 teams have their new boats, then quite obviously they bought them. Why should it be a surprise, or even a question? It just isn't that much money, barely more than an X40 despite being 3 times as cool.

I think that is the point he was trying to make .Five teams will not have THEIR boats if they have not PAID for them . They can make as many as they want but someone has to pay for them , correct ?

[maxmini]

This is for Cruz. When you see the boat next , check the rear scoop " situation ". If that was truly a issue with the flip I would think there would be some sort of a modification . If they didn't fix it then it wasn't broken and perhaps just a smoke screen for another issue altogether .

[Stingray]

I just think it is pathetic to be worrying about that. If 5 teams have their new boats, then quite obviously they bought them. Why should it be a surprise, or even a question? It just isn't that much money, barely more than an X40 despite being 3 times as cool.

I think that is the point he was trying to make .Five teams will not have THEIR boats if they have not PAID for them . They can make as many as they want but someone has to pay for them , correct ?

Well sure they will have to buy them but so what? There is nothing new or different in that.

Si has a bee in his bonnet over this new AUS team. Will they get it together? Time will tell.

[Samin]

. If they didn't fix it then it wasn't broken and perhaps just a smoke screen for another issue altogether .

get over it, theres no issue, they tipped over, its the first time wont be the last time, there was fuck all damage, its all good

[maxmini]

. If they didn't fix it then it wasn't broken and perhaps just a smoke screen for another issue altogether .

get over it, theres no issue, they tipped over, its the first time wont be the last time, there was fuck all damage, its all good

I am in agreement with you , boats fall over and will continue to do so. I was on the Reynolds 33 that flipped and got Multis banned from LBRW I was just curious as there was a lot of chat on here about the design of the rear sugar scoops contributing to this particular event . I am wondering if that was truly the case and if it had been addressed .

[SimonN]

Stingray

This is not about Team Australia having no money. This is about the claims of ACRM as to the number of entries they have. The number of deposits tells us the number of viable entries. Entries with no money are simply a smoke screen. And according to the information above, it suggests that only 2 teams have enough money to place a deposit on an AC45. What does that say about the challengers? We don't even know if all those who have entered have paid the $25,000. There is certainly some question about whether one of them has.

As we are expecting a sponsorship announcement from TNZ within the next few weeks, we assume they will get their AC45 almost immediately. However, except for OR, Artemis and TNZ, none of the other teams have shown themselves to be anything like viable. To enter and make big announcements when you don't know where the money is coming from is at best optimistic. Maybe the TNZ strategy of entering but making no announcement is the most honest way of going.

The worst case has got to be ML, the COR. They have had over a year to raise money and have clearly failed to do so. What does that say? Has anybody ever challenged without the resources needed to get to the start line?

[nav]

. If they didn't fix it then it wasn't broken and perhaps just a smoke screen for another issue altogether .

get over it, theres no issue, they tipped over, its the first time wont be the last time, there was fuck all damage, its all good

I am in agreement with you , boats fall over and will continue to do so. I was on the Reynolds 33 that flipped and got Multis banned from LBRW I was just curious as there was a lot of chat on here about the design of the rear sugar scoops contributing to this particular event . I am wondering if that was truly the case and if it had been addressed .

That's 'cause we have a lot of 'experts' on here who like to hear themselves talk instead of paying attention.

[maxmini]

. If they didn't fix it then it wasn't broken and perhaps just a smoke screen for another issue altogether .

get over it, theres no issue, they tipped over, its the first time wont be the last time, there was fuck all damage, its all good

I am in agreement with you , boats fall over and will continue to do so. I was on the Reynolds 33 that flipped and got Multis banned from LBRW I was just curious as there was a lot of chat on here about the design of the rear sugar scoops contributing to this particular event . I am wondering if that was truly the case and if it had been addressed .

That's cause we have a lot of 'experts' on here who like to hear themselves talk instead of paying attention.

If those scoops have not been addressed then I think you may be on to something

[nav]

^ Sweet, if they really are out sailing then the wing you photographed is fresh from Core, not joined yet. Either W2 or W3.

I snapped this from at Core earlier, with the way it was back-lit it sure looked like two wings had left. Did you see any flaps? Probably 6 of them have left too.

 Warkworth-Feb-25_2.jpg   53K   16 downloads

Only W2 has left Core, that's it in two halves in Cruz's shot:



(W3 standing, W4 in the jig, W5 an unjoined spar only - are all still there.) http://www.americascup.com/webcam

[nav]

Artemis - day 1 (right way up only) http://www.americasc...22,1,en,fp.html




"Captain, I cannae hold her!"


(media page updated: now includes a Competing Teams section)

[maxmini]

Artemis - day 1 (right way up only) http://www.americasc...22,1,en,fp.html




"Captain, I cannae hold her!"

Arent those the same scoops that were blamed for the flip in the first place by so many reports . It was a reverse one and a half with full twisting dismount as I recall ?

[SimonN]

Artemis - day 1 (right way up only) http://www.americasc...22,1,en,fp.html




"Captain, I cannae hold her!"


(media page updated: now includes a Competing Teams section)

That's not day 1. The wing that they were using when they flipped had the gray film covering. This wing has clear film. It has to be taken since the wing was repaired. Note all the sailors are Artemis. They must have paid a deposit

[maxmini]

Artemis - day 1 (right way up only) http://www.americasc...22,1,en,fp.html




"Captain, I cannae hold her!"


(media page updated: now includes a Competing Teams section)

That's not day 1. The wing that they were using when they flipped had the gray film covering. This wing has clear film. It has to be taken since the wing was repaired. Note all the sailors are Artemis. They must have paid a deposit

The date on the photo is 2/26/2011. They must be real thrill seakers to be out there with the " death scoops " still in place

[K38BOB]

The date on the photo is 2/26/2011. They must be real thrill seakers to be out there with the " death scoops " still in place

.or they learned that forward motion is a good thing

[nav]

Artemis - day 1 (right way up only) http://www.americasc...22,1,en,fp.html




"Captain, I cannae hold her!"


(media page updated: now includes a Competing Teams section)

That's not day 1. The wing that they were using when they flipped had the gray film covering. This wing has clear film. It has to be taken since the wing was repaired. Note all the sailors are Artemis. They must have paid a deposit

The date on the photo is 2/26/2011. They must be real thrill seakers to be out there with the " death scoops " still in place

Thanks, t's all blindingly obvious now - need more coffee!

Fast with the 'look we can do it right' photos aren't they!

a reverse one and a half full twisting - Nav likes this

[Summerwind]

So now we have a clear wing again.

Guess they shredded all the cover and put a new wrap on. No time to paint it though.

[nav]

New jib?

[Guitar]

anybody notice the PFD's?

New jib?

Nice shot!

[nav]

AC45 W1 iterations so far, (some images flipped):




I would be keen to hear the rest of the story. Where was W1 repaired, who worked on it, how was it realigned without going back into the jig?

Are there plans to turn it grey again? Is that done for aerodynamic or cosmetic reasons?

RG? Anyone?

[HobieAnarchy]

New jib?

No - it's got the old "Hobie Sails" patch from the '90s.

[WetHog]

Has anybody ever challenged without the resources needed to get to the start line?

+39 would fit in that category IMO, and to a lesser extent, ETNZ at the beginning of the AC32 cycle.

WetHog

[nav]

Ah ha, so here's the story that goes with today's photos:



Back on the Water in New Zealand


"It is fantastic!" This was Paul Cayard's verdict after a four-hour sail on the AC45 catamaran in beautiful conditions on Auckland's Hauraki Gulf today. Cayard and a crew from Artemis Racing put the cat through a thorough testing session.



Weekend boaters out on the water in force were thrilled to see the America's Cup cat fly past – less than a week after it capsized in a freak wind gust in the Rangitoto Channel.

After the capsize, the damaged wing was taken to the Core Builders facility in Warkworth, north of Auckland, where a small team, including the America's Cup Race Management (ACRM) team and members of the Artemis Racing crew, executed a flawless repair in just four days.

....http://www.americasc...-new-zealand_84

[Stingray]

Another
--
26 February 2011
Auckland, NZ

It was a fantastic day today on the Hauraki Gulf in the new AC45 prototype catamaran. Blue sky and 15 knots of wind from the Southwest made for a great training day for Artemis Racing.

Following a strange incident on Monday whereby the hard wing sail was damaged, the Artemis team worked alongside the ACRM team and Core Builders to get the new generation America's Cup yacht back out on the water.

I was particularly pleased the boat was ready today as this gave me an opportunity to sail the boat before heading to the airport for my flight back to San Francisco tonight.

My impressions are that the boat is nothing less than spectacular. I am not a multihull sailor, but I was able to steer the boat around a couple of laps on the Hauraki Gulf under the watchful eye of Santiago Lange, two time Silver medalist and Artemis Racing team member.

The boat seemed very balanced and the typical multihull peril of leeward bow submersion was non existent. We easily skipped along at 20+ knots downwind and about 12 knots upwind. The crew (and helmsman) hike out just like on a Laser.

Hats off to Oracle Racing and Core Builders for taking this boat from concept to sailing in just 4 months!

Artemis will be sailing the prototype for three more days. Then we begin the assembly of our own boat for a mid-March training session down here in Auckland. The first AC45 World Series event will be in July.

It really struck me today that there is a new era of America's Cup coming and I was very happy to be part of it!

Paul

--

[K38BOB]

Paul on Sailworld

'But this seems to me to be a great boat, very well designed. I was able to sail it for quite some time and it was very user-friendly.'

'One of the biggest challenges with cats is the danger of digging in the leeward bow, but we never had that issue at all. There was always good buoyancy in the bows. I think that when you consider this project went from zero to sailing in just over four months, it is a very impressive effort.'

Commenting on the cat’s tacking and acceleration, Cayard said he was impressed by how nimble it was. 'It is certainly no slower than any monohull through the tacks,' he commented.

[Xlot]

Artemis will be sailing the prototype for three more days. Then we begin the assembly of our own boat for a mid-March training session down here in Auckland.

That settles it.

[Stingray]

Artemis kept their sandwiches in a lunch bag this time
What is that?

[nav]

Artemis kept their sandwiches in a lunch bag this time
What is that?

??

[nav]

??

Now you've done it SR

[nav]

??

[nav]

??

[Stingray]

Thanks, t's all blindingly obvious now - need more coffee!

That must be some truly great coffee!!

?? Lmao

PC sounded really jacked after coming off the water, fun to read about.

[nav]

Yeah OK that's enough of that.

'Jacked' ? Is that good?

[GauchoGreg]

Stingray

This is not about Team Australia having no money. This is about the claims of ACRM as to the number of entries they have. The number of deposits tells us the number of viable entries. Entries with no money are simply a smoke screen. And according to the information above, it suggests that only 2 teams have enough money to place a deposit on an AC45. What does that say about the challengers? We don't even know if all those who have entered have paid the $25,000. There is certainly some question about whether one of them has.

As we are expecting a sponsorship announcement from TNZ within the next few weeks, we assume they will get their AC45 almost immediately. However, except for OR, Artemis and TNZ, none of the other teams have shown themselves to be anything like viable. To enter and make big announcements when you don't know where the money is coming from is at best optimistic. Maybe the TNZ strategy of entering but making no announcement is the most honest way of going.

The worst case has got to be ML, the COR. They have had over a year to raise money and have clearly failed to do so. What does that say? Has anybody ever challenged without the resources needed to get to the start line?

Why do some of you keep ignoring Energy Team. These guys would not have made the announcement they did without knowing they were going to be able to move forward. They have plenty of experience funding big projects, they have the right people, they have a real club. Is it just because they are not convenient for the ongoing, tiring claim that AC34 is a failure?

[maxmini]

Ah ha, so here's the story that goes with today's photos:



Back on the Water in New Zealand


"It is fantastic!" This was Paul Cayard's verdict after a four-hour sail on the AC45 catamaran in beautiful conditions on Auckland's Hauraki Gulf today. Cayard and a crew from Artemis Racing put the cat through a thorough testing session.



Weekend boaters out on the water in force were thrilled to see the America's Cup cat fly past – less than a week after it capsized in a freak wind gust in the Rangitoto Channel.

After the capsize, the damaged wing was taken to the Core Builders facility in Warkworth, north of Auckland, where a small team, including the America's Cup Race Management (ACRM) team and members of the Artemis Racing crew, executed a flawless repair in just four days.

....http://www.americasc...-new-zealand_84

But the question he was being asked was " How does it feel to have pay check for the next three years "

Im just funnin, good to see the boat back on the water .

[maxmini]

Stingray

This is not about Team Australia having no money. This is about the claims of ACRM as to the number of entries they have. The number of deposits tells us the number of viable entries. Entries with no money are simply a smoke screen. And according to the information above, it suggests that only 2 teams have enough money to place a deposit on an AC45. What does that say about the challengers? We don't even know if all those who have entered have paid the $25,000. There is certainly some question about whether one of them has.

As we are expecting a sponsorship announcement from TNZ within the next few weeks, we assume they will get their AC45 almost immediately. However, except for OR, Artemis and TNZ, none of the other teams have shown themselves to be anything like viable. To enter and make big announcements when you don't know where the money is coming from is at best optimistic. Maybe the TNZ strategy of entering but making no announcement is the most honest way of going.

The worst case has got to be ML, the COR. They have had over a year to raise money and have clearly failed to do so. What does that say? Has anybody ever challenged without the resources needed to get to the start line?

Why do some of you keep ignoring Energy Team. These guys would not have made the announcement they did without knowing they were going to be able to move forward. They have plenty of experience funding big projects, they have the right people, they have a real club. Is it just because they are not convenient for the ongoing, tiring claim that AC34 is a failure?

The first thoughts are still current. Too many chiefs / egos to be taken seriously. If they could get along and put together a combined effort they would be very tough .

[Stingray]

Artemis will be sailing the prototype for three more days. Then we begin the assembly of our own boat for a mid-March training session down here in Auckland.

That settles it.

Settles what?

If you mean Artemis is getting one of the first two boats, and Oracle the other, and so therefore ML is not getting one of the first two, and so then (well whatever the rest of the infatuation with the current status of ML is) then: I notice that despite winning the recent RC44 Miami event, ML is not entered in the coming RC 44 San Diego event:
http://rc44cupsd.com/?page_id=25

Conclusions to draw? Dunno either, it could be they are off doing something else entirely, or doing nothing else, or could even be going to Auckland. Guess we'll see.

That RC SD event could be fun to follow, maybe we need a thread so as to not hijack this one. Lots of AC names in it. Another cool feature is that the racing will be live-tracked:

Follow The Racing Using Virtual Technology
Can't be at the race? With virtual technology, you can follow the Oracle RC44 Cup San Diego in real time. You'll see the full course on San Diego Bay with marks, laylines, advantage lines and distances between the RC44 boats just like you were watching live from the waterfront.

Here's that live webcam we remember from DZ's time, perhaps we can get the other one turned to it too.
http://live6.trueloo...&imagemap.h=198


And here's a neat enough phone-vid from a couple days back, by SButt's Craig L

[nav]

Stingray

This is not about Team Australia having no money. This is about the claims of ACRM as to the number of entries they have. The number of deposits tells us the number of viable entries. Entries with no money are simply a smoke screen. And according to the information above, it suggests that only 2 teams have enough money to place a deposit on an AC45. What does that say about the challengers? We don't even know if all those who have entered have paid the $25,000. There is certainly some question about whether one of them has.

As we are expecting a sponsorship announcement from TNZ within the next few weeks, we assume they will get their AC45 almost immediately. However, except for OR, Artemis and TNZ, none of the other teams have shown themselves to be anything like viable. To enter and make big announcements when you don't know where the money is coming from is at best optimistic. Maybe the TNZ strategy of entering but making no announcement is the most honest way of going.

The worst case has got to be ML, the COR. They have had over a year to raise money and have clearly failed to do so. What does that say? Has anybody ever challenged without the resources needed to get to the start line?

Why do some of you keep ignoring Energy Team. These guys would not have made the announcement they did without knowing they were going to be able to move forward. They have plenty of experience funding big projects, they have the right people, they have a real club. Is it just because they are not convenient for the ongoing, tiring claim that AC34 is a failure?

The first thoughts are still current. Too many chiefs / egos to be taken seriously. If they could get along and put together a combined effort they would be very tough .

You boys lost?

Here you go, just follow this path, it's not far ==================================================>> http://forums.sailin...=113739&st=1400

[Rennmaus]

(...) Another cool feature is that the racing will be live-tracked:

Follow The Racing Using Virtual Technology
Can't be at the race? With virtual technology, you can follow the Oracle RC44 Cup San Diego in real time. You'll see the full course on San Diego Bay with marks, laylines, advantage lines and distances between the RC44 boats just like you were watching live from the waterfront.(...)

Clean will love to - again - watch a video game. Well, at least he could change to the webcam and watch ant sailing.

[Stingray]

(...) Another cool feature is that the racing will be live-tracked:
Follow The Racing Using Virtual Technology

Clean will love to - again - watch a video game. Well, at least he could change to the webcam and watch ant sailing.

Can't believe it, Seattle is at 27 deg and snowing, just hell for trying to get around in a Vette. I will watch almost anything at this point! So where's the crack Artemis video production studio, this AC45/Auckland weekend reminds me of this video which, in my homebound boredom, I did just this morning watch again

[Rennmaus]

^
Truly desperate, poor you. Since a couple of years it's normal here for Feb. to have much lower temps than 27F, and lots of snow. So, VLC was a nice break from that last year. This year we had all the freezing and snow in Dec., Jan. and beginning of Feb. Hopefully it's over now.

Good to hear that you are driving the Red Devil again. Why not make the trip to SD, should be warmer there.

[Stingray]

^
Truly desperate, poor you. Since a couple of years it's normal here for Feb. to have much lower temps than 27F, and lots of snow. So, VLC was a nice break from that last year. This year we had all the freezing and snow in Dec., Jan. and beginning of Feb. Hopefully it's over now.

Good to hear that you are driving the Red Devil again. Why not make the trip to SD, should be warmer there.

Lol.. Yep - even chilly Valencia was a warmup for me too. And yes, SD does look pretty good about now but this morning I noticed rain drops on that tower cam, so might have to fly even farther than there. Maybe Cancun the end of March will have to do.

We had a lot of photos - and almost every day a recap video too - from the first couple weeks of the AC45 sails, produced by a combination of AC and OR. This 4 day break has been an excruciating withdrawal, especially once the ESS (despite that with almost zero coverage besides Twitter) ended too. The cats are charging around in crazy circles through the house instead of going outside, I may even join them.

[Dixie]

And here's a neat enough phone-vid from a couple days back, by SButt's Craig L

Would love to see that edited....nice views starting 3 or so minutes in, but needs massive cuts and some music overlay. Clean has spoilt us.

[eric e]

So now we have a clear wing again.

Guess they shredded all the cover and put a new wrap on. No time to paint it though.

1 of the problems with the grey film was always going to be judging airflow over the back of the wing

i wonder if they grey film was more responsible than the sugar scoops for the flip?

ie. whoever was controlling the wing had no idea it was powering up, until they were sliding across the tramp

wouldn't be the 1st time that the needs of advertisers conflicted directly with the needs of sportsmen

edit; the comparo pics show the clear wing had 4 times as many tell-tales visible as the grey, (fore, aft each section and both sides vs. mid-section single side)

as a training boat the clear may have had too many for a noob handler to keep track of

but without the flapping of a stalled soft sail to alert handler with wandering eyes of a wind shift

how's a wing handler to know what's happening on his dark side?

[Vincent DePillis]

Hey snow's not a problem stingray-- we were out at shilshole racing in the CYC windjammer-- three short races, wonderful tune up. And there was a pretty good fleet coming over from Vashon to round the west point buoy too!. Got to get away form the computer!

[Te Kooti]

I would be keen to hear the rest of the story. Where was W1 repaired, who worked on it, how was it realigned without going back into the jig?

On Friday (late avo) I was in the shed at 101 Halsey where about 8 blokes were working on the wing.

It was in several parts of being lifted here and there.

I was surprised when they got it back together so quickly.

I was wondering if the broken bits would go to Warkworth.

Maybe what I saw at 101 Halsey was just an assembly operation. But I do not think so because a couple of blokes were using the "heat guns" on the "shrink wrap."

They were working swiftly.

The earthquake continues to dominate life in Aotearoa and it is truly boody awful.

The damage by Artemis is a sign of things to come.

There has recently been a competitors meeting in AKL and Harold Bennett is now en route to SF.

[Te Kooti]

One more point.

There is a chase boat at 101 Halsey named "Oracle Racing" (thus no replacement for BMW as yet).

There are new sponsor logos on a TNZ chase boat.

I love the attitude at TNZ.

Top racers (eg. Trae and Minoprio) unloading furniture recently arrived from Valencia.

The Camper travel lift is ready and waiting and there are many containers at TNZ.

[Te Kooti]

1 of the problems with the grey film was always going to be judging airflow over the back of the wing

I heard from the horses mouth.

Grey is for sponsor logos.

Will not sail as well as clear.

[Indio]

One more point.

There is a chase boat at 101 Halsey named "Oracle Racing" (thus no replacement for BMW as yet).

There are new sponsor logos on a TNZ chase boat.

...hint??

[nav]

1 of the problems with the grey film was always going to be judging airflow over the back of the wing

I heard from the horses mouth.

Grey is for sponsor logos.

Will not sail as well as clear.

Thanks for the updates TK. I take it from what you have said and from the info in the OR piece that the carbon work was done at Core in Warkworth and the film was put on at the viaduct. It appears W2 will also get it's skin at Halsey St.
That's fantastic news about ?TNZ as it means they are in!!

[kiwi_jon]

One more point.

There is a chase boat at 101 Halsey named "Oracle Racing" (thus no replacement for BMW as yet).

There are new sponsor logos on a TNZ chase boat.

...hint??

ETNZ is going to have at least one rib that will be used for the ETNZ/Camper VOR70 campaign. It is probably that as the VOR70 must be very close to hitting the water.

[nav]

One more point.

There is a chase boat at 101 Halsey named "Oracle Racing" (thus no replacement for BMW as yet).

There are new sponsor logos on a TNZ chase boat.

...hint??

ETNZ is going to have at least one rib that will be used for the ETNZ/Camper VOR70 campaign. It is probably that as the VOR70 must be very close to hitting the water.

Spoilsport

[nav]

A lot of questions answered here: http://www.americascup.com/blog , as below


Night shift begins
Monday, February 28, 2011



As ACRM prepares to welcome additional AC45 catamarans to its Auckland base, the team has been looking at new systems in anticipation of an additional four boats coming on line within the next few weeks.



One of the first things to address was overnight storage of the boats, so ACRM is introducing the night shift.

"We started the process last night with new mooring equipment, which we are trialling in preparation for additional boats in the next few weeks," said ACRM boat captain Troy Tindill. "Everything went to plan and the boat sat comfortably overnight in a 10-15 knot breeze so we are gaining confidence that we will be ready to accommodate more boats down here pretty soon."

While the mooring saves the logistics of craning the boat out of the water after a day of testing, it instead requires a night watch system. "We have one night watchman on board, as the boat does swing at night so we need to keep an eye on things," commented Tindill. "And with a live band playing at a nearby pub til 3am, he didn't have to worry too much about falling asleep on the job."

Four teams will take delivery of their new boat platforms this week from Core Builders Composites and Cookson Boats. During the Competitor Forum in Auckland last week, the teams did a draw to determine which boat each would receive.

The first four teams who ordered an AC45 will spend the next two weeks painting, assembling, and fitting out their new boats. It is expected that the first of the teams will be sailing the week of March 15. The teams will announce their own plans over the coming weeks. With the ACRM boat, the AC45 fleet in Auckland will grow to five. Additional AC45s remain under construction for later delivery.

Once the four new boats join the ACRM boat on the water, up to three of the five AC45s may be moored in the Auckland Viaduct each evening.

Meanwhile AC45 testing continues. On Monday in New Zealand, Artemis Racing experienced another successful day on the water. They have another session is scheduled for Tuesday.

[Stingray]

[Te Kooti]

We had a lot of photos - and almost every day a recap video too - from the first couple weeks of the AC45 sails, produced by a combination of AC and OR. This 4 day break has been an excruciating

NZ is still preoccupied with the earthquake.

Things are ticking along at the Viaduct.

But you can feel the loss of air out of that (and many other) tyres.

The AC45 capsize was just silly.

They were sitting head-to-wind untangling a roller furler.

And got blown over !!!!

WTF !

You can feel the hesitancy and prevarication in the Artemis effort.

But at least there is something there.

As for ML, praise be to god!

[Te Kooti]

ETNZ is going to have at least one rib that will be used for the ETNZ/Camper VOR70 campaign. It is probably that as the VOR70 must be very close to hitting the water.

The Camper travel lift is ready.

Shoebie says April for the splash.

I went up to Hillside Ave (Cooksons) to see the Volvo boat. .

But they are so busy with AC45 hulls I felt like an intruder and left.

TNZ will sail the Volvo boat around NZ and ordinary citizens will get a look.

Shoebie, Dalts and all the blokes who want to sail in the Volvo (but cannot) will go on the boat during the Aotearoa sojourn.

Chris Nicholson and Stu Bannatyne know what to expect. Adam Minoprio is getting ready!

50 knots at 3 a.m. in the southern ocean and time to put up a spinnaker.

Yooks!

[Te Kooti]

That's fantastic news about ?TNZ as it means they are in!!

I think TNZ will be in even if Dalts has to power it with Vegemite, No. 8 wire and Rush Munroes ice cream.

The logos I am talking about (e.g. Gill clothing) will not be big guys with naming rights.

There are some pretty obvious candidates in the "big guys" dept and Dalts is off talking to them.

If you were a syndicate CEO and AC discourse was dominated by a US software coy (i.e. Oracle) who would you talk too?

Therein lies the biggest answers to sponsorship questions.