148 replies to this topic

[radicalmove]

Thanks PL for the insights on 3rd Reef.
Always thought it was strange that it
was listed as an SC 33 on scratch sheets
in Chicago. I had sailed on City Limits
and Maria so I knew it wasn't a "real"
SC 33.

[budman]

There's a boat thats been floatimg between Nelsons and Svendsens a couple of times. First time I saw it thought t was maybe the first Moore 24 prototype but its not.. It appears to be from that era, 24 ' ish. Maybe its hull #2. I'll grab a pic next week. (this one doesn't have a cabin) and its not in very good shape.

Took these today.

Is anyone familiar with some or any of the mods done to this particular boat over the years? Prior to this posting, my long time sailing bud and I had been discussing some possible mods to Hull #2 and some of those are apprent in the photos here. Is Jerry Fisher the owner of this particular boat? Is this "Loose"?

[jhc]

Third Reef is/was the de-facto prototype for the Hobie 33. Though Third Reef was lighter and tippier than the Hobie. The keel was a Wilderness 21 keel with a wood "shoe" on the bottom, for extra depth and a higher aspect ratio. Designed and built by Jim Foley, who designed and built several other boats.
Was an awesome ride in 1979-80, when it won "MBYRA" and "SCORE" events in Santa Cruz.

[Devoforedeckus]

There's a boat thats been floatimg between Nelsons and Svendsens a couple of times. First time I saw it thought t was maybe the first Moore 24 prototype but its not.. It appears to be from that era, 24 ' ish. Maybe its hull #2. I'll grab a pic next week. (this one doesn't have a cabin) and its not in very good shape.

Took these today.

Is anyone familiar with some or any of the mods done to this particular boat over the years? Prior to this posting, my long time sailing bud and I had been discussing some possible mods to Hull #2 and some of those are apprent in the photos here. Is Jerry Fisher the owner of this particular boat? Is this "Loose"?

That is the Loose boat

[Monster Mash]

There's a boat thats been floatimg between Nelsons and Svendsens a couple of times. First time I saw it thought t was maybe the first Moore 24 prototype but its not.. It appears to be from that era, 24 ' ish. Maybe its hull #2. I'll grab a pic next week. (this one doesn't have a cabin) and its not in very good shape.

Took these today.

Is anyone familiar with some or any of the mods done to this particular boat over the years? Prior to this posting, my long time sailing bud and I had been discussing some possible mods to Hull #2 and some of those are apprent in the photos here. Is Jerry Fisher the owner of this particular boat? Is this "Loose"?

Bud
If you'd like I will try to get some detailed pictures of the boat. I'm friendly with the harbormaster and I think he will be ok with it.
mm

[budman]

There's a boat thats been floatimg between Nelsons and Svendsens a couple of times. First time I saw it thought t was maybe the first Moore 24 prototype but its not.. It appears to be from that era, 24 ' ish. Maybe its hull #2. I'll grab a pic next week. (this one doesn't have a cabin) and its not in very good shape.

Took these today.

Is anyone familiar with some or any of the mods done to this particular boat over the years? Prior to this posting, my long time sailing bud and I had been discussing some possible mods to Hull #2 and some of those are apprent in the photos here. Is Jerry Fisher the owner of this particular boat? Is this "Loose"?

Bud
If you'd like I will try to get some detailed pictures of the boat. I'm friendly with the harbormaster and I think he will be ok with it.
mm

MM - yes, that would be great. Don't go out of your way, but if the next time you are down there you could make some snaps of the boat, I would sincerely appreciate it. I've been talking to the owner about modifying the ride here. We shall see what it will take after my project sheet is compiled. THANKS!!!!

[Marinersquare]

I've been away on a business trip and I returned home to find this thread on SC 33 & Pi boats. Let me add my 2 cents. I was somewhat involved in finishing the "Loose" boat. The hull without a deck (but with the foam for it) was purchased from Jeannie Wirtanen by Wally Hansen & Jerry Fisher and brought to Alameda. At the time the design was called a SC 24 but we changed it to an Alameda 24 due to the modifications that were made to the design. After the Pi boat was launched and sailing these boats were always referred to as "Pi boats" and just a handful of people ever knew them as SC 24's. Since the plan was to race it in MORA, the keel had to weight 800 lbs not the 250 lbs on the Pi boat. We also felt that the keel placement was too far aft and there was too much sweep to the transom hung rudder (25 degrees). For all of these endeavors we sought the council of another school teacher refugee - Tom Wylie, who graciously helped out. Tom even allowed us to place the up turned hull on top of Moonshadow's deck mold, trace it out and then layup the deck. The transom was reduced to 10 degrees sweep and one of Tom's younger employees (David Hulse) made his first ever sailboat mast, which is still with the boat. This boat was raced continually for 20 years (74-94) on SF bay and out in the "Midget Ocean" with quite a few coastal races as well, so when people say they have never heard of this design it's because they were called "Pi boats" by the rest of the sailors competing against them at the time. The Loose boat is still owned by Jerry Fisher and if you want one, make it yourself just like he did.

Since we are talking Santa Cruz history here are some relevant boats to check out:
Sopwith Camel
Sallylightfoot/Cumulus/Flying Englishman
Third Reef

And when you talk to Bill Lee ask him about the R boat he sailed at full speed into the pier at Newport Beach.

Devo - Thanks for filling in more gaps in the story. There was most certainly some confusion (and BS that had been called) about a so called "SC24" that may have existed. Your first hand $.02 is worth more than a buck in helping to substantiate the history of these boats and how they appeared on the scene. Thanks for tossing in the change!!!

[Marinersquare]

Hope this works -- this is a difficult format to follow. Maybe it's a Mac thing. I was a young kid (14 or 15) when Loose came into the world. I went out on the boat ten or fifteen times after work on the estuary. A true party boat -- and the beer can races weren't just beer can.

As I recall, Loose had a Soling mast. The sails were made, ahem, "after hours" in the North Loft with a friend or two helping out. The hull was foam. Maybe it had a lever vang -- i don't recall. But early on, it didn't have any life lines or pulpits. Those came later, as I recall. Possibly liberated from a Cal 20.

The early star-cut spinnaker was Purple and Yellow. The guys who sailed on it were Jerry Fisher, one or two of the Heckmans, Wally Hanson, Larry Herbig, and a couple of other guys from the boat yard. Wally had a hat that said UD. Not for under dog, but for under dose, he said. He was a v. friendly guy who looked like he could have been one of the stones, with an ever-present Marlboro. A lot of these guys lived together on Maple Street in Alameda. These were kick ass ocean racers.

Wally re-configured the boat at one point and called it Loose Mark II.

That's all I recall, except that it had a very good berth right below the gang way in Mariner Square -- directly underneath the Ron Wise boatyard. Soon to be Beery's

[Great Red Shark]

This is just the sort of rambling old-geezer recollection that I come here for !

Good stuff. Please dredge the memory banks for a harrowing incident or a fine close shave aboard one of these ground-breaking craft.

Let the photos be old, Let them show what they want.
- The Cars.

[Dawg Gonit]

Here is a great shot of Alden and Adam Glickman's SC 33 Freight Train. Deke Klatt driving. I think this was during the Santa Barbara to King Harbor Race, which will be running next weekend I think.

Notice the Freight Train colored on the chute. Art work by Chris (the Lad) Hancock

[Little Betty]

Wow Dave, I forgot about that drawring on the chute...me thinks I could have made that train a bit more aggressive looking like the boat was............LAD

[foredeckC22]

Paging Mach 5, paging Mach 5... (okay, know you're busy at the rum tent at WIRW)... but seriously, we need a blooper for the boat. So many kinds of IOR awesomeness!

[Editor]

holy christ! did we really fly bloopers on sc 33's????

[rigguy]

Does any sailmaker still have a design for them. I looked into it this year. No one remembers. I would love to pull one out or the bag one day and shock the shit out of everyone on some offshore race! Ah, the good ole days. 1/2 tons rocked.

[Hiro]

Fortunately, or Unfortunately I'm old enough to remember and have sailed with the Blooper
WOW, how much Work and Expense to go slow d.a.d. !

[Warren Casey]

I used to race on Freight Train back in the day! Who know what race that is. Most likely off Ventura, CA somewhere in the fog. Dwight Rowe was also a regular crew. We both could be on board in that picture. Fun days!

[KennyB]

holy christ! did we really fly bloopers on sc 33's????

Not on Hull #1......cause we were a frac rig!! Oh the memories from 1977.....Holy CRAP!

[Dawg Gonit]

holy christ! did we really fly bloopers on sc 33's????

Not on Hull #1......cause we were a frac rig!! Oh the memories from 1977.....Holy CRAP!

I believe the first SC33 was designed to the IOR Rule??????????????????????????????Frac Rig????


but then Bill Lee remembered "Fast is Fun" and the boat went mast head to the happiness of many a sailor.

[K38BOB]

There's a boat thats been floatimg between Nelsons and Svendsens a couple of times. First time I saw it thought t was maybe the first Moore 24 prototype but its not.. It appears to be from that era, 24 ' ish. Maybe its hull #2. I'll grab a pic next week. (this one doesn't have a cabin) and its not in very good shape.

Took these today.

Thanks Chris for pointing me to this thread and to all the contributors. Knew about SC33s. Need to go check SC24 out

[KennyB]

holy christ! did we really fly bloopers on sc 33's????

Not on Hull #1......cause we were a frac rig!! Oh the memories from 1977.....Holy CRAP!

I believe the first SC33 was designed to the IOR Rule??????????????????????????????Frac Rig????


but then Bill Lee remembered "Fast is Fun" and the boat went mast head to the happiness of many a sailor.

Right, it was to fit the 1 ton 27.5 Ft rating! Owner was trying to get a tequila sponsor for the 1 ton worlds in NZ.

[Mach 5]

Paging Mach 5, paging Mach 5... (okay, know you're busy at the rum tent at WIRW)... but seriously, we need a blooper for the boat. So many kinds of IOR awesomeness!

HA !!
No kidding!!
LOVE the 'Gangsta Lean!'

..Had a fun chat with some SC-27 guys from Cali at the Nationals up here, near the polar ice cap, and NEITHER of them had ever even heard of a 33!!!

Made me smile...
Big goal= Get the boat to the big reunion in 2013....

Ok, Back to the tent.. Some serious celebratin' to get to!

[Surf City Racing]

So.... You guys know where the SC 33 mold is, right?

Better question...You know what it is, right?

It's around, and it's a garden. Was a pool for a while. That's all I'm saying until I get an OK from the owner to snap a pic.

[wildangels]

When my father purchased Ajax/ now Muffin it had a blooper and we played with it a few times. We once had a spinnaker, blooper and staysail all flying, tall boy staysail I think...

[Dawg Gonit]

holy christ! did we really fly bloopers on sc 33's????

Not on Hull #1......cause we were a frac rig!! Oh the memories from 1977.....Holy CRAP!

I believe the first SC33 was designed to the IOR Rule??????????????????????????????Frac Rig????


but then Bill Lee remembered "Fast is Fun" and the boat went mast head to the happiness of many a sailor.

Right, it was to fit the 1 ton 27.5 Ft rating! Owner was trying to get a tequila sponsor for the 1 ton worlds in NZ.

Any of you Venturan's remember Sid Johnson and his SC33 "FireLock" named after the forerunner to the "Flintlock"? Sid was a collector.

Sid was also a Plastic Surgeon of the late 70' and early 80's. He was the Track Surgeon for the Ventura Raceway for short track motorcycle racing. His kids loved to race motocross. SId was a really cool guy, but passed from a heart attack too soon.

[Mach 5]

So.... You guys know where the SC 33 mold is, right?

Better question...You know what it is, right?

It's around, and it's a garden. Was a pool for a while. That's all I'm saying until I get an OK from the owner to snap a pic.

.. Wow...I'd love to know what the mold is up to today.....

VERY interesting!!

[jhc]

For Sale:

"SC 33 blooper" (1979)

"Almost New"

"Only Used on Sundays"

"Must Sell"

"All Offers Considered"

Contact: "jhc"

[Off Shore 10 meter]

Third Reef is/was the de-facto prototype for the Hobie 33. Though Third Reef was lighter and tippier than the Hobie. The keel was a Wilderness 21 keel with a wood "shoe" on the bottom, for extra depth and a higher aspect ratio. Designed and built by Jim Foley, who designed and built several other boats.
Was an awesome ride in 1979-80, when it won "MBYRA" and "SCORE" events in Santa Cruz.

That was a total E ticket ride...Glad others remember the boat and had the experience... Are you a scyc member?

[Off Shore 10 meter]

I've been away on a business trip and I returned home to find this thread on SC 33 & Pi boats. Let me add my 2 cents. I was somewhat involved in finishing the "Loose" boat. The hull without a deck (but with the foam for it) was purchased from Jeannie Wirtanen by Wally Hansen & Jerry Fisher and brought to Alameda. At the time the design was called a SC 24 but we changed it to an Alameda 24 due to the modifications that were made to the design. After the Pi boat was launched and sailing these boats were always referred to as "Pi boats" and just a handful of people ever knew them as SC 24's. Since the plan was to race it in MORA, the keel had to weight 800 lbs not the 250 lbs on the Pi boat. We also felt that the keel placement was too far aft and there was too much sweep to the transom hung rudder (25 degrees). For all of these endeavors we sought the council of another school teacher refugee - Tom Wylie, who graciously helped out. Tom even allowed us to place the up turned hull on top of Moonshadow's deck mold, trace it out and then layup the deck. The transom was reduced to 10 degrees sweep and one of Tom's younger employees (David Hulse) made his first ever sailboat mast, which is still with the boat. This boat was raced continually for 20 years (74-94) on SF bay and out in the "Midget Ocean" with quite a few coastal races as well, so when people say they have never heard of this design it's because they were called "Pi boats" by the rest of the sailors competing against them at the time. The Loose boat is still owned by Jerry Fisher and if you want one, make it yourself just like he did.

Since we are talking Santa Cruz history here are some relevant boats to check out:
Sopwith Camel
Sallylightfoot/Cumulus/Flying Englishman
Third Reef

And when you talk to Bill Lee ask him about the R boat he sailed at full speed into the pier at Newport Beach.

Devo - Thanks for filling in more gaps in the story. There was most certainly some confusion (and BS that had been called) about a so called "SC24" that may have existed. Your first hand $.02 is worth more than a buck in helping to substantiate the history of these boats and how they appeared on the scene. Thanks for tossing in the change!!!

Do you remember that old wooden sail boat named SALLY..The one where the deck was like a screen door...It was reported that it was wetter down below that up on the deck...Do you know the story about the color of the hull? The owner Sally liked ponds hand cream and like the color of the cream..Went to a paint company and showed them the jar of cream...They made that color and I don't know if that company is still around..You could ask for Sally green and get that color...

[Off Shore 10 meter]

Here is a great shot of Alden and Adam Glickman's SC 33 Freight Train. Deke Klatt driving. I think this was during the Santa Barbara to King Harbor Race, which will be running next weekend I think.

Notice the Freight Train colored on the chute. Art work by Chris (the Lad) Hancock
If you go to wizzard yachts..Bill Lee might be interested in your pictures of the SC 33..as they don't have any for the SC33.

[By the lee]

Budman,am glad you were able to post pictures and put some self appointed authorities on the subject to the back of the line.A little civility on SA would go a long way in improving discussions and promoting sailing topics without the risk of being criticized at the drop of a hat.

This............thanks budman

[Surf City Racing]

"When my kids were younger, we'd have about twenty 12 year olds splashing around. It took a hit during the '89 quake and the port bow slid down the hill 3 inches...Now it's a greenhouse and it grows some great vegetables. This year, the cover is going to be an old 33 spinnaker" TC the owner.

[Monster Mash]

Gotta be Santa Cruz

[bellemel]

Here are the pics of the SC 24. Man, it has been sitting for A LONG TIME. As noted in previous post, current owner confirmed today I was the last one who sailed her back in 1989. Note the moss on the shrouds, and lines. Anyone see any striking similarity in the transom and rudder to the SC 27? Can you believe this boat weighed only 1800 lbs when she was kicking (balsa core, according to Ron Moore)? As for the sale of the boat to the current owner, it was not Bill Lee as thought. It was purchased in 1974 or 5 from a broker in Balboa, who was selling for the owner (an atty, he could not remember his name - maybe someone knows??) who was planning to buy an SC 27. Anyway, I plan on calling Bill Lee this coming week for a little more poop, as well as trying to retrace some of the white out history and connect the dots on the pedigree.

[bellemel]

Budman,
Is that Wirtanen SC24 still at the Canyon Lake YC in Texas? Is it for sale yet?Please call Alan regarding the boat. He talked to you before, and is wondering what is happening with it. He's in the SC phonebook.

[budman]

Budman,
Is that Wirtanen SC24 still at the Canyon Lake YC in Texas? Is it for sale yet?Please call Alan regarding the boat. He talked to you before, and is wondering what is happening with it. He's in the SC phonebook.

Yes, it is still sitting there. I spoke with the owner not too long ago and he said he was not interested in selling. However, I will give him a ring and touch base next week when I return from biz trip. I don't have Alan's #, but if you will PM me I will reach out to him next week sometime.

[Tom Ray]

Geez, you just answer and don't even welcome the guy? How rude!

[bellemel]

Budman,
Is that Wirtanen SC24 still at the Canyon Lake YC in Texas? Is it for sale yet?Please call Alan regarding the boat. He talked to you before, and is wondering what is happening with it. He's in the SC phonebook.

Yes, it is still sitting there. I spoke with the owner not too long ago and he said he was not interested in selling. However, I will give him a ring and touch base next week when I return from biz trip. I don't have Alan's #, but if you will PM me I will reach out to him next week sometime.

Budman,
Thanks for your reply. Once I figure out how to send a PM, will do! I am searching around my settings here...We appreciate your willingness to contact the owner...

[bellemel]

Budman,
Is that Wirtanen SC24 still at the Canyon Lake YC in Texas? Is it for sale yet?Please call Alan regarding the boat. He talked to you before, and is wondering what is happening with it. He's in the SC phonebook.

Yes, it is still sitting there. I spoke with the owner not too long ago and he said he was not interested in selling. However, I will give him a ring and touch base next week when I return from biz trip. I don't have Alan's #, but if you will PM me I will reach out to him next week sometime.

Budman,
Thanks for your reply. Once I figure out how to send a PM, will do! I am searching around my settings here...We appreciate your willingness to contact the owner...

By the way, to set the record straight: Alan built the boat on his own and it was called NELLIE; we looked at your photos last night.

[wildangels]

1979 Ajax beats Imp/ 2012 Muffin wins Center Sound Series Mr. Lee had the right idea

[bellemel]

Budman,
Melanie Wirtanen here, is there any news as to the possibility that we could talk the currrent owner out of Nellie Belle(with cash, that is), the orange and white 24 footer at Canyon Lake YC, TX? It is obvious the boat is not being used. Please call us at 831.334.0933 if you would be willing to communicate our request, or if you are willing to give us his name? Or give him our name and number? If he hasn't sailed it in all this time, maybe he would be willing to sell it back to the builder, Alan, who would like to bring the boat back to Santa Cruz. .
Thanks so much!

[saltyokie]

holy christ! did we really fly bloopers on sc 33's????

Not on Hull #1......cause we were a frac rig!! Oh the memories from 1977.....Holy CRAP!

I believe the first SC33 was designed to the IOR Rule??????????????????????????????Frac Rig????


but then Bill Lee remembered "Fast is Fun" and the boat went mast head to the happiness of many a sailor.

Right, it was to fit the 1 ton 27.5 Ft rating! Owner was trying to get a tequila sponsor for the 1 ton worlds in NZ.

Any of you Venturan's remember Sid Johnson and his SC33 "FireLock" named after the forerunner to the "Flintlock"? Sid was a collector.

Sid was also a Plastic Surgeon of the late 70' and early 80's. He was the Track Surgeon for the Ventura Raceway for short track motorcycle racing. His kids loved to race motocross. SId was a really cool guy, but passed from a heart attack too soon.

In the 1980s there was a SC33 at the Peninsula Anchorage near the Lobster Trap. You could tell that at one time the boat had been rigged to the max. There were fittings for hydraulic cylinders all over the place. They guy that had it raced it a little on a low budget.

[budman]

HUH?? Sail makers will put almost anything on a bag. SC 24???? Really????

Attached Files

•  SC 24.jpg   992.64K   18 downloads

[budman]

One more . . . . just for grins!!

Attached Files

•  SC main.JPG   209.14K   6 downloads

[couchsurfer]

mann,,great thread to read on a slow evening!

...Budman,,any response to alan & melonies desire to get the boat back home??....justgottaknow!!!

[billr]

Have to get this thread back on track...

[budman]

@ couch . . . . hint - the trailer is getting a new axle and heading out west, where it all began. There, a make over is understood to occur. Look forward to seeing the transformation.
@ bill - sorry, dude . . . didn't mean to get off track. Just a little SC history along the way - interesting the story behind the ties and webs interwoven in the thread - there was a lot discovered, yet still left untold. AND, it generated "hot" topic status. BTW, nice looking 33. Do you have any other pics of her?

[billr]

Budman - I like all the Santa Cruz history. Tom and Jeremy at Surfcityracing.org are putting together a book on it and claim to be a third done. Keep it coming. Amazing how many SC boats are on Lake Michigan. Quite a few SC 70s (Great Lakes 70s). Merlin is in Milwaukee. There is even a Moore 24 on the hard about 300 yds from my boat. I'll dig up some more pics and post.

[idiotwind]

Devoforedeckus has filled in a lot of blanks. I was a young grom at the time, but was fortunate enough to go out sailing many nights on Loose, when Loose was a brand new boat. I always thought that the mast was a Soling mast, but I've learned something here. The new loose had a beautiful purple and yellow tri-cut spinnaker, which I believe was sewn late-night inside the North loft, if you know what I mean.

Over a two year period (roughly), Loose, had a "Mark II" upgrade, as Wally called it. Basically a man overboard pole inset was added, lifelines, handrails, and a few other safety devices. Even later, the named was painted on the side, with a cactus motif. Then Loose became dri sailed on a trailor. Leaving her berth at Mariner Square. The three most soulful boats on the bay in those days were moonshadow, Loose, and of course, Animal Farm. Wally Hansen smoked Marlboros and wore a baseball cap with the letters UD. Not for Underdog, but for UnderDose! He was a Keith Richards-like guy, humor-wise.

Hope I added something here.

[Delta Dog]

So where is third reef?