39 replies to this topic

[floating dutchman]

Bought an outboard of Trade me this morning, Being of dutch heritage I struggle to pass up a bargain.
Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, the lack of reliablity of this outboard will in no way put any persons life in danger, It's a be used within rowing distance of saftey kind of a deal.
Any way this outboard was advitised as:

$1 reserve ,Old Evinrude 2hp 2 stroke outboard, in running condition but takes a few pulls to get going and stalls if the throttel is set to wide open, it may just need a plug and tune up or good for some spare parts, rust and corrosion on some parts, missing one knob for mixture controll.motor is old and not reliable hence $1 res.

Hey, can't be that bad, A quick fiddle with the mixture screw and a new plug and she'll be good as new - Mistake No.1
$65 and I have this peice if shit, cool.
Pick it up and they guy show me it running, well to be honest thats more than I was expecting. The seller noticed me looking under the cover while it was running and said "Yea I know, no indicator pee" Quick look and could not see where it would be coming out from, another quick look and didn't see the water pickup, must be air cooled. mistake No.2
Take it home set up a length of 4 by 2 (one end clamped to the washing line and the other end in the grass) and drop the end in a 10L bucket and proceed to spend the next hour fucking around with mixture screws, as luck would have it my late father had an Evinrude outboard, He also had the workshop manual, Being of Dutch heritage makes it hard to part with usless stuff, but sometimes even I get lucky. I found one little problem with this. A guy who is not a mecanic with a piece of shit outboard even with the workshop manual will not make honey from shit.
O.K. time to take the carb to bits I'd already tossed out the old fuel and replaced it with fresh stuff (measuring the oil petrol ratio: thats for girls a wimps) and replaced the spark plug with one specked by Mr google (yep, same type as the one that came out) only to find all nice and clean, Bugger starting to think this 29 yo outboard runs like a 29 yo outboard because it's 29 years old (and fucked)
Any way back to pissing around with mixture screws. This moter has a mixture screw for both high speed and low speed, Both are user adjustable, except of course the low speed knob is long gone this doesn't seem to matter as it doesn't matter what I do with that screw, I still runs like a bag of shit.
Get in the car and go down to the boat to do a couple minor maintenance jobs, sitting at the lights and the realization hits me. No cooling fins on the head, Mmmm, how the fuck did I miss that!
O.K. so now that I know it's a water cooled moter and I've been running it in a 10L bucket Two things come to mind (1) Does the fact that running it over 1/2 throttle empties the bucket and deprives it of cooling effect the mixture? And (2) just how fucked is that impeller now?
Time to take the bottom 1/2 to bits. Still not sure why the bottom 1/2 doesn't look like it does in the book but at least the impeller still look good, Just as well I didn't measure the fuel oil mixture, all that extra oil floating around in the bucket seemed to save the impeller, But now I notice the milky oil in the bottom end, O.K. milky may not be the right way to describe it, What do you you call that that look that looks like thawed out ice-cream? Time to sit it upside-down and let it drain and have a beer, Mmm don't have any gear oil around, oh well I'll make some, I have some gear grease and some engine oil, that'll work, Oh wait here's some power steer fluid better add some of that as well.

O.K. by the end of the day I've spent $65 on a an outboard. $18 on a new sparkplug and proper 2 stroke mix, used about 1L of petrol from the lawnmower can and waisted most of a sunday. I know a lot more about 2 stroke engines than I did at start of the day and have an outboard that if I turn the mixture to "lean" run's good at low revs and around to "rich" runs good at high revs (on the user adjustable knob thats still there)

So far I have an outboard that will get me from the boat to the beach (and maybe even back) and have learned more than a $65 dollar course would teach me. If this saga is going to be anything like my $60 dollar lawn-mower (7 years and I still can't kill it(God bless B&S)) then It's going to be a fun one.

Will keep you posted on my attempts to kill it (further) and how it goes

[Just Bob]

This is a visual joke so please use some imagination....

Why do the Dutch have flat foreheads and big ears?

WHAT (While slapping you forhead)

HOW MUCH DID YOU SAY (while pulling on you ear)


....Also I'm wondering if my Brother In law sold you it.

[Tom Ray]

now I notice the milky oil in the bottom end, O.K. milky may not be the right way to describe it, What do you you call that that look that looks like thawed out ice-cream? Time to sit it upside-down and let it drain and have a beer, Mmm don't have any gear oil around, oh well I'll make some, I have some gear grease and some engine oil, that'll work, Oh wait here's some power steer fluid better add some of that as well.

That's actually a good old motor, but your attempts to kill it should be pretty funny. This is a really good start. The price on one of these in good condition averages about $150, so you're still in bargain territory. Sort of.

[olaf hart]

Main jet is blocked, probably old gelled fuel.
Oh, and you probably need a new oil seal on the gearbox.

But its all good, just another learning opportunity.

[floating dutchman]

Main jet is blocked, probably old gelled fuel.
Oh, and you probably need a new oil seal on the gearbox.

But its all good, just another learning opportunity.

Which jet is the "main" one, I don't think any of them is blocked because I cleaned them out with a straitened out paper clip

New seal on the gearbox? Lets walk before run aye.

[Tom Ray]

I love the internet because it is amusing to think of mechanics running across that paperclip comment and cringing for years and years to come.

Dutch, you need that seal! You want to preserve your precious power steering fluids, right?

[rastus]

While i have a passionate hatred of outboard motors,I may need your help with my electrics. Could be a win win situation
especially if there is beer involved

[INFIDEL]

My johnny 4 horse has no pee'er. Comes out of the exhaust port at the wateline with the exhaust. Sounds like you got carb issues. Do run a compression check and see what's up. Mine will only run wide open now and seems to only be on 1 cylinder (2 banger...)
Good Luck
INFIDEL

[kent_island_sailor]

My 6 HP Johnson reverts to 1 cylinder ops at low speeds. It has done that from brand new.

[jimbojones]

My johnny 4 horse has no pee'er. Comes out of the exhaust port at the wateline with the exhaust. Sounds like you got carb issues. Do run a compression check and see what's up. Mine will only run wide open now and seems to only be on 1 cylinder (2 banger...)
Good Luck
INFIDEL

+1 The johnson 2hp does not pee but you can put your hand in front of (not on top of) the exhaust relief and you should see it get quite wet with drops being sprayed out. when you split the leg be sure that the copper water tube lines up. I had one that I thought needed a complete water pump rebuild, which I did(also super easy) and all it really needed was for the copper tube to be seated in the grommet in the bottom of the head. They do tend to get a little hot when they run in my experience. Carb rebuild will take you an hour if you have the manual.
These motors tend to have ignition problems but are REALLY REALLY mechanically simple if it has any compression at all you should have a well running motor for cheap. Virtually any part is still available that you could want or need. I gave up on mine because I am tired of old high maintenance crap that I don't 100% need, I went back to oars.
good luck

[Paps]

O.K. by the end of the day I've spent $65 on a an outboard. $18 on a new sparkplug and proper 2 stroke mix, used about 1L of petrol from the lawnmower can and waisted most of a sunday. I know a lot more about 2 stroke engines than I did at start of the day and have an outboard that if I turn the mixture to "lean" run's good at low revs and around to "rich" runs good at high revs (on the user adjustable knob thats still there)

Thats why there are two of them!!

Set the main (high speed) knob to the middle. Using either the other knob or a pair of pliers get the idle mixture right on the low speed jet.. Then at half throttle play with the main knob until it runs smoothly.

From there it should only need tweaks of 5deg either way to have it running like a champ.

[floating dutchman]

While i have a passionate hatred of outboard motors,I may need your help with my electrics. Could be a win win situation
especially if there is beer involved

Yea, should get of my arse and help you you with your electrics, Trust me though, you have better things to do than piss around with this outboard.

My johnny 4 horse has no pee'er. Comes out of the exhaust port at the wateline with the exhaust. Sounds like you got carb issues. Do run a compression check and see what's up. Mine will only run wide open now and seems to only be on 1 cylinder (2 banger...)
Good Luck
INFIDEL

+1 The johnson 2hp does not pee but you can put your hand in front of (not on top of) the exhaust relief and you should see it get quite wet with drops being sprayed out. when you split the leg be sure that the copper water tube lines up. I had one that I thought needed a complete water pump rebuild, which I did(also super easy) and all it really needed was for the copper tube to be seated in the grommet in the bottom of the head. They do tend to get a little hot when they run in my experience. Carb rebuild will take you an hour if you have the manual.
These motors tend to have ignition problems but are REALLY REALLY mechanically simple if it has any compression at all you should have a well running motor for cheap. Virtually any part is still available that you could want or need. I gave up on mine because I am tired of old high maintenance crap that I don't 100% need, I went back to oars.
good luck

Thanks for the tip about the water indicator, I was begining to think that (workshop manual expects you to know these things)
Copper tube lines up.
Compression test? Shit Diddn't you see what I used for gearbox oil? If is runs then the compression is just fine.
And I aready rebuilt the carb, Cleaned out the jets with a paper clip and all!

O.K. by the end of the day I've spent $65 on a an outboard. $18 on a new sparkplug and proper 2 stroke mix, used about 1L of petrol from the lawnmower can and waisted most of a sunday. I know a lot more about 2 stroke engines than I did at start of the day and have an outboard that if I turn the mixture to "lean" run's good at low revs and around to "rich" runs good at high revs (on the user adjustable knob thats still there)

Thats why there are two of them!!

Set the main (high speed) knob to the middle. Using either the other knob or a pair of pliers get the idle mixture right on the low speed jet.. Then at half throttle play with the main knob until it runs smoothly.

From there it should only need tweaks of 5deg either way to have it running like a champ.

Trust me, I've tried this and tried this and tried this and tried this and tried this I think there could be bigger carb issue here, But I can make it run and for $65 thats all I expect.

[Paps]

Thanks for the tip about the water indicator, I was begining to think that (workshop manual expects you to know these things)
Copper tube lines up.
Compression test? Shit Diddn't you see what I used for gearbox oil? If is runs then the compression is just fine.
And I aready rebuilt the carb, Cleaned out the jets with a paper clip and all!

O.K. by the end of the day I've spent $65 on a an outboard. $18 on a new sparkplug and proper 2 stroke mix, used about 1L of petrol from the lawnmower can and waisted most of a sunday. I know a lot more about 2 stroke engines than I did at start of the day and have an outboard that if I turn the mixture to "lean" run's good at low revs and around to "rich" runs good at high revs (on the user adjustable knob thats still there)

Thats why there are two of them!!

Set the main (high speed) knob to the middle. Using either the other knob or a pair of pliers get the idle mixture right on the low speed jet.. Then at half throttle play with the main knob until it runs smoothly.

From there it should only need tweaks of 5deg either way to have it running like a champ.

Trust me, I've tried this and tried this and tried this and tried this and tried this I think there could be bigger carb issue here, But I can make it run and for $65 thats all I expect.

Ok, I hear you. Unscrew the needles and check for wear at the tips. They are softer than the jets and sometimes wear a "collar" into the conical tip. This makes tuning a bugger.

Adjusting the high speed needle should have no effect on low speed at all as up to a certain point the throttle does not start to move, just the advance arm adjusting the timing angle!

Good luck and have fun.

[floating dutchman]

Ok, I hear you. Unscrew the needles and check for wear at the tips. They are softer than the jets and sometimes wear a "collar" into the conical tip. This makes tuning a bugger.

Adjusting the high speed needle should have no effect on low speed at all as up to a certain point the throttle does not start to move, just the advance arm adjusting the timing angle!

Good luck and have fun.

Have checked the needles for wear, Found wear, now what? O.K. I'm kidding the needles didn't look as bad as the "worn" examples in the book so I'm assuming at this point they are good enough to run.

The next step is to the thing on the back of the dingy and test, job for the weekend, I think constant cooling and constant load will make tuning a bit easier. I'm working on a leave pass, I don't know what the issue is with the yard work, It's still there after last Sunday and it will still be there the Sunday after next and it's a good father son (5) thing to do,
Kids will grow sitting on the front of a dingy listening to dad swear at an outboard hoping none of those flying tools come their way, KIDDING.
The seat in my dingy started to crack the other weekend, I only need if I have the row the dingy so when I came home from work today I glued it up in preparation for this weekends outboard tests

[Tom Ray]

Compression test? Shit Diddn't you see what I used for gearbox oil? If is runs then the compression is just fine.
And I aready rebuilt the carb, Cleaned out the jets with a paper clip and all!

Hah! I knew this would be entertaining.

BTW, small, one-cylinder outboard compression tests are for engines that for whatever reason you can't get near an actual boat and water. If it pushes a boat at the expected speed, compression is good.

[Paps]

Sounds like a plan FD. You might consider being a pussy and measuring the fuel to oil mix!! We wont tell..

And Tom 2 strokes dont have any compression, well not to speak of, lol.

[floating dutchman]

O.K. so the plan was to take Master FD out in the dingy with the said outboard provided I got a leave pass this weekend, but things have evolved since then.

Gear box oil, well I have been well talked out of the whole idea using my home mix, I'm just gonna have to buy the real deal, but the seals are staying untill I make the next batch of thawed out ice-cream anyway.

Work, Why can't factory people work in the weekends and leave the people who make them go to only have to work weekdays, fucken inconsiderate if you ask me!

Weather looks to be craping out anyway.

Leave pass, Her-indoors wants to come? Well that was out of left field! Not sure how do deal with this one.

Shit I might even go all out and measure the petrol oil mix as well!

[floating dutchman]

Picks or it never happened:
 IMG_0208.JPG   164.7K   9 downloads
The beast ready for action
 IMG_0209.JPG   197.31K   9 downloads
The beast in action
 IMG_0210.JPG   148.82K   6 downloads
One dam happy crew member.

O.K. so I was going to change the gear box oil, key word here is was. And as for measuring the mix, well I did, I now know that one capful to a tank is too much oil.

The bugger just did not want to start and when I got it to go it just didn't perform as I wanted it to, I guessing about 1 hp max, but it works!!!!!!!!!!

Time to look at the carb a bit harder. I just didn't want to spend good money after bad on a $65 motor untill I saw it pushing the dink.

Even her indoors was impressed (for $65)

Not sure why but when I got it home 2 hours after it had last been running, Stuck the end in a bucket of fresh water and the bloody thing went first pull?

[austin1972]

Dutchie, that thing is practically new. I run a 1974 Evinrude 85. My folks got it new for Bob's (our 16' boat) transom and it has a gazillion abusive hours on it. Bob is on his 4th transom rebuild.

Whatever problem you have, it's probably fixable. AFA oil, get a 6 gallon tank and pour half a bottle in at each fill-up. Disconnect and run dry every time.
Get the gaskets. You don't want to mess up the lower unit. Reed valve replacement might not be a bad idea either, from what I've been told.

I love my old Rude. It's beyond reliable, has never failed. (knock)

[Salazar]

My johnny 4 horse has no pee'er. Comes out of the exhaust port at the wateline with the exhaust. Sounds like you got carb issues. Do run a compression check and see what's up. Mine will only run wide open now and seems to only be on 1 cylinder (2 banger...)
Good Luck
INFIDEL

+1 The johnson 2hp does not pee but you can put your hand in front of (not on top of) the exhaust relief and you should see it get quite wet with drops being sprayed out. when you split the leg be sure that the copper water tube lines up. I had one that I thought needed a complete water pump rebuild, which I did(also super easy) and all it really needed was for the copper tube to be seated in the grommet in the bottom of the head. They do tend to get a little hot when they run in my experience. Carb rebuild will take you an hour if you have the manual.
These motors tend to have ignition problems but are REALLY REALLY mechanically simple if it has any compression at all you should have a well running motor for cheap. Virtually any part is still available that you could want or need. I gave up on mine because I am tired of old high maintenance crap that I don't 100% need, I went back to oars.
good luck

My 1973 Johnson 9.5 Hp. needed both (two cylinder) ignition coils replaced as they both had cracked and were shorting to ground. With cracked coils it ran at mid to full throttle just fine but was difficult to start and wouldn't run slowly at all. YMMV

[PNW Matt B]

Dutchie, this is one of those areas were saving a penny is going to end up costing you. Do it right and spend the money to get it working and you'll end up with a highly reliable and relatively inexpensive outboard. Penny pinch it and you'll end up with a barely functional piece of shit that continuously costs you "just a little more" and ends up failing you when you need it.

[Tom Ray]

Matt is right. If you're going to fool with it, I'd fix it properly.

That said, I don't think I'd even fool with it. Sell it as a parts motor and buy a working one. That particular one is not special. There are lots of them.

[Foreverslow]

+1

Had a Mercury like that.
Bitch to start and keep at idle.
Went to replace a coil and the old salt (Nasty fucker who yelled at everyone cause instead of catching big fish 40 miles out off his Post, he was running a canoe rental joint that also sold outboards) said he had something better and walked away.

He returns from the back of the building with a gleem in his eye and says you want this.
WTF is it?

It is the high performance coils for racing. They throw lightening bolts. In fact it came with spark plugs with no tips. No need for them. They don't foul Matie.

Ok, but how much are we talking?
He gets this stupid grin and says the package is actually cheaper by $7 over a single coil.

OK, I will take them.
He had a smile for at least 2 minutes when some college student shows up to inquire about renting a canoe and he starts to chew their ass. Felt bad for the old salt's wife doing the bookkeeping.

Installed the puppies and they sure did everything he said.
Fired on the first pull. Could dump as much oil in the mixture and still not foul those plugs.
And the idle was Much better.

My johnny 4 horse has no pee'er. Comes out of the exhaust port at the wateline with the exhaust. Sounds like you got carb issues. Do run a compression check and see what's up. Mine will only run wide open now and seems to only be on 1 cylinder (2 banger...)
Good Luck
INFIDEL

+1 The johnson 2hp does not pee but you can put your hand in front of (not on top of) the exhaust relief and you should see it get quite wet with drops being sprayed out. when you split the leg be sure that the copper water tube lines up. I had one that I thought needed a complete water pump rebuild, which I did(also super easy) and all it really needed was for the copper tube to be seated in the grommet in the bottom of the head. They do tend to get a little hot when they run in my experience. Carb rebuild will take you an hour if you have the manual.
These motors tend to have ignition problems but are REALLY REALLY mechanically simple if it has any compression at all you should have a well running motor for cheap. Virtually any part is still available that you could want or need. I gave up on mine because I am tired of old high maintenance crap that I don't 100% need, I went back to oars.
good luck

My 1973 Johnson 9.5 Hp. needed both (two cylinder) ignition coils replaced as they both had cracked and were shorting to ground. With cracked coils it ran at mid to full throttle just fine but was difficult to start and wouldn't run slowly at all. YMMV

[floating dutchman]

This is a little out of date so bear with me.

Bought a carb kit for the thing and spent a wet afternoon dismantling, cleaning and reassembling the thing. The high speed needle did look a bit worn, Mmm what to do, Oh well I'll just tickle it up with a bit of wet and dry, What harm could it do?
Got It all back together with high hopes of it running good, set the high and low speed jets to factory setting and pull, nothing, 2nd pull and hey shit it fired - ran and stopped, Awesome, I've rebuilt the carb and it starts out of the box, this is very good start.

Go and see my friendly retired tinkering type neighbour, He has a proper 44 gal drum he uses for his outboards. Take the thing to his place and muck around with it on 1/2 throttle playing with the low speed jet with him playing the choke to keep it going,Keep turning it ti "rich" thinking we would eventually be able to push the choke in and get it to run properly, Nothing we did helped. - Dam . then he opened up the throttle and we got it to run on the high speed jet good as gold. Oh well, It's a $65 outboard and it sort of works.

Went away on the boat this week and took the dodgy outboard with us. Fired of the 1st pull, was running of the 2nd pull and used for the day as a flat out or nothing motor. Hey it works.
Then after a couple of beers I looked at the outboard sitting on the back of the dingy and realized there was one thing I hadn't tried. Turning the low-speed jet IN from factory setting, All our playing the choke to get it to sort of run at low speed and we never tried this. In all the way and out 1 turn, not the 1 1/2 like the book says and a world of difference! Ended up with the low speed jet all the way in and now it runs like a dream. I wonder if some idiot had tried to clear out the low speed orifice with something stupid like a straitened out paper-clip or something?

Next step: bottom end oil and seals.

[Tom Ray]

Ended up with the low speed jet all the way in and now it runs like a dream. I wonder if some idiot had tried to clear out the low speed orifice with something stupid like a straitened out paper-clip or something?

That was no idiot, but a heck of a skilled paperclip technician. Completely eliminated the need for that adjustment screw by perfectly calibrated damage.

Check the carb body for hammer marks. It may have stuck at some point, and sometime a hammer cures what a paperclip cannot.

[floating dutchman]

Oh a couple of things I forgot.

When I bought the outboard one of the bolts that hold the top to the bottom was missing, This meant you had to hold the top down when pulling on the starter. I didn't have a bolt the right size but it seams a cable tie works just fine!

And I'm getting way more than 1HP now, Might even be the 2HP like it's supposed to be!

[Paps]

I admire the perseverance FD, well done!!

[ozzy58]

You will have to pay for registration on the dnighy and get a boat licence if you get too much power !

[floating dutchman]

Over the winter I'd pull the outboard out of the garage and run it in a bucket for a few minets every month or so. About 3 months ago it stopped pumping water. Impellar fucked, no suprise really. Left it in the garage untill spring to deal with it.

Today I took it from the garage and stuck in in a bucket hoping that the water pump had fixed itself. Ya know, these things start eayser when you turn the fuel on. Who knew? Four pulls after turning the fuel on and it's running, last years fuel and all. unfucken belivable. But the water haddn't fixed itself.

O.K. take the bottom end to bits and the impella is just fine! all that was wrong was that the water intake had blocked up with crap.
Something is odd about it, looks like there has been heat around the pump but the pump is O.K. maybe it's just been collecting carbon from that water in the bucket it's running in. Dunno, it's fixed now.

While its apart I drained the new batch of thawed out icecream, put new oil in it and drained it a few times this time and made a new batch of home made "gear oil", back togeather.
Run's like a dream

Good for another year I recon.

[floating dutchman]

Yea well, Didn't quite make a year.
Outboard was getting harder and harder to start, also noticed that it wasn’t running as good as it was. Finally got to the point where just rowing was easier than starting the outboard. This was not good for the ego.
I took it home to have a play and in the end all that was wrong was the spark plug.
One problem I've had with it is that if it is raining or I have had water splash up on the spark-plug area its a bugger to start, the exposed spark plug seems to bad design and also shortens the life of the plug.
I've been scratching my head with something I could use to coat the plug to protect it from water, Any one got an idea?

[Shute Man]

[floating dutchman]

US$16.42? You seem to be unaware of the budget!

[Tom Ray]

I've been scratching my head with something I could use to coat the plug to protect it from water, Any one got an idea?

I fog outboard powerheads with LPS-3 and let it bake on before exposure to salt water. It creates a waxy, dirt-attracting protective layer that does not easily wash off. Trailers get the same treatment.

[MisterMoon]

I've met Max and ridden around with him on one of his boats powered by a 1941 Johnson. Interesting motor and and interesting guy. Best outboard guy I've ever seen. His book is essential if you have an old Johnnyrude outboard.

[curm]

I've always wanted one of these:

[Paps]

Dutchy there is also a liquid latex paint stuff that you could coat the plug stem to rubber cap area with. Or just whack a big dollup of marine grease under the rubber cap before sticking it on the plug.

[Tom Ray]

I've always wanted one of these:

That is a nice poster and it looks like it might be old enough to have collectible value. You could sell it for enough to get a nice outboard.

[INFIDEL]

Ice cream you say???

SPLENDID!

[opa1]

Anybody have experience with the Lehr outboard? Runs on propane. Using propane versus gasoline can eliminate a ton of problems normally experienced with standard outboards. I'm in the market for an outboard and have an interest in the Lehr.

[kimbottles]

I've always wanted one of these:

That is a nice poster and it looks like it might be old enough to have collectible value. You could sell it for enough to get a nice outboard. ;)/>

My late parents had a love/hate relationship with various Seagulls until I lent them my 4 stroke Honda.