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our new boat is NASTY


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#1 trucdesign

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 08:54 AM

Two young anarchists started building this little beast

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#2 trucdesign

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 08:57 AM

6,4 meters plenty of power

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#3 trucdesign

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 08:59 AM

.

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#4 The Advocate

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 12:34 PM

Bit too "open" for me.

#5 mezaire

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 01:15 PM

Bit too "open" for me.


Tend to agree.

Interesting boat but unfortunately I see too many negatives that mean it's probably going to struggle against the other 6.5m weapons out there.

Eg. chines don't work unless you can keep the boat flat enough to use them, ask anyone who sailed a a sports 8. Also cabin is a bit pointless.

If it's to be sailed at a medium wind (10-15 knots) spot then it might be ok but in 20+ I think it might struggle uphill and then be really sticky in sub 10 knots.

#6 trucdesign

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 01:31 PM


Bit too "open" for me.


Tend to agree.

Interesting boat but unfortunately I see too many negatives that mean it's probably going to struggle against the other 6.5m weapons out there.

Eg. chines don't work unless you can keep the boat flat enough to use them, ask anyone who sailed a a sports 8. Also cabin is a bit pointless.

If it's to be sailed at a medium wind (10-15 knots) spot then it might be ok but in 20+ I think it might struggle uphill and then be really sticky in sub 10 knots.




I respectfully, totally disagree with that.
In fact, it is not similar to an open. The "open style" or better "french trend" is something I dont like: big fat wet ass dragging in the water, that's why opens are pigs in light air.
Our transom is well clear of the surface, so not draggy in little breeze, but still wide to provide a good planing surface in stronger breeze.
The little cabin is just to have a little shelter to store stuff you need onboard, and have some 80 - 90 cm inside.
No cabin would mean 60 cm "headroom" so , in other words, no headroom at all, no way to go inside.

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#7 Gingerbread

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 02:50 PM

Looks sweet I reckon and agree with you don't think it's too wide in the stern. Waterline beam is not too narrow providing good hull form stability, should be a weapon upwind in anything over 7-10 knots. If you don't mind :ph34r: the only comment I have would be the rig. Like to see I and P a little higher and shorten up E around 150mm. This would provide more power and overcome any light-air weakness the boat 'might' have.

#8 trucdesign

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 03:12 PM

Ginger your comments are welcome.
There are a number of reasons for this relatively short rig:

our mainsail trimmer doesnt like too high aspect mainsails, he will own the boat, trim the main, so he has what he likes.
main sail track at the back of the bus, so long E.
it will sail in a very windy spot, we'll need a little fractional chute, so little I.

the helmsman is a sailmaker, there will be a very good sail inventory, no problem to run a code0

#9 jim lee

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 06:47 PM

How do you choose traveler across transom as opposed to mid cockpit? What's the pros & cons there?

-jim lee

#10 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:07 PM

- the chines are quite high and clear, the form stability will be will be working well before they immerse to any great degree

as to HOW wide in the arse is too wide in a lightly ballasted skiff-inspired SB ?
Shaw/Vipe/Stealth 7 seemed to have nailed it,
the trade-off (to go wider) may be that you can drop off a crew-member ? i.e 3 instead of 4 ?

- pros/the stern sheeting with a headknocker is fairly standard on a skiff and cleans up the working area of the boat immensely i guess, cons/issues then are tiller/extensions

the rig ? again the old question, trade-off huh

lower aspect and conserv sized rigs are used by the boatspeed 23, M24 and US scows due to finite rightng moment, ie they wanna stay light or light-ish, jack up the rig and you have to chase it with ballast ... or 1/2 a footy team of bodies on the rail ??

#11 trucdesign

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 07:43 PM

yes the traveler at the back is a big plus to free the cockpit, both the helmsman and the trimmer can hold the mainsheet (which is skiff style, from the boom with no cleat) .
I think we'll sail 3 up, but as I said the place is really wind, so we'll see if a 4th person can be useful.

Gybe you're spot on about the chines, they're quite high because we'll sail not only windward-leeward courses but coastal races too, where we'll find some reaching, so the need to have good form stability and the possibility to heel a bit .

#12 seacube

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 09:32 PM

... our mainsail trimmer doesnt like too high aspect mainsails, he will own the boat, trim the main, so he has what he likes...


I'm the "mainsail trimmer" that has a part of the boat, I liked the Gingerbread suggestion about the rig I will speak to the helmsman that is actually the sailmaker and boat part owner as well.
Thank you.

Trucdesign, please, sunday when you meet Adriano speak to him about the Gingerbread suggestion.

#13 lickety-split

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 10:39 PM

I way like what you draw. Doesnt look wide arse and sticky to me.

#14 hotair

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Posted 24 March 2011 - 11:28 PM

Has anyone ever tried a wishbone boom on this type of boat ?
Auto vang and no head banging.

#15 Poida

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 12:47 AM

Yeah, ignore the desktop experts here. Unlikely they have every lifted a finger to actually design and build a boat themselves.
There is no way to deduce speed without having advanced computer predictions or tank testing data to review. There are simply too many variables involved.
Fundamentally, any design that keeps the boat moving along in gusts should always do well around the course. The deep keel and high chine alone will help there. There are arguments both ways for wide transoms but personally I like them provided that the maximum width carries a long way forward which this design seems to do well. This ensures the hull rotation is minimised when heeled over, thus minimising keel/rudder drag. My opinion is that drag due to high wetted area is a secondary and minor consideration in the grand scheme of things. Hope she runs well for you.

#16 Kestrahl

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 01:21 AM

Great looking little boat. Personally I'm more a fan of of the narrow waterline/stern but it does make the boat harder to sail compared to this style. How long is the prod? It looks a bit on the short side and 50sqm is a small gennaker these days for a 450kg boat. (shaw is 280kg with 55sqm gennaker)
I'm a sailmaker and have no problem with a short I, infact I'd probably have it shorter than this. You can hold better forestay tension with the shallow angle and it gives the MH gennaker more breathing room, you never have to drop the jib. On my Shaw we never bothered with a fractional as a smaller MH sail is quicker running and we used a MH code zero for anything tight.

Speed wise I don't see as big an advantage reaching that people tend to beleive there is with a wider style boat provided the narrow wl boat is lighter has adquate righting moment (which exists with a sportie or canting keel KB) but that a whole other argument.

#17 Cheesy

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 03:02 AM

Great looking little boat. Personally I'm more a fan of of the narrow waterline/stern but it does make the boat harder to sail compared to this style. How long is the prod? It looks a bit on the short side and 50sqm is a small gennaker these days for a 450kg boat. (shaw is 280kg with 55sqm gennaker)
I'm a sailmaker and have no problem with a short I, infact I'd probably have it shorter than this. You can hold better forestay tension with the shallow angle and it gives the MH gennaker more breathing room, you never have to drop the jib. On my Shaw we never bothered with a fractional as a smaller MH sail is quicker running and we used a MH code zero for anything tight.

Speed wise I don't see as big an advantage reaching that people tend to beleive there is with a wider style boat provided the narrow wl boat is lighter has adquate righting moment (which exists with a sportie or canting keel KB) but that a whole other argument.


It looks like it may be a whole lot dryer on a reach than something like the Shaw though, especially if its sailed with a bit of heel, the extra 100kg on the keel will start working and the chines wont be as draggy as the wing

#18 trucdesign

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 09:33 AM

To Seacube, about the sailplan

I prefere Kestrahl' vision that Ginger's one.
It is very true that having wide separation between gennaker and headstay/jib is good to fill the chute going deep, and helpful when gybing too.

Kestrahl, some considerations about sailing in big breeze on a sporty: you only run MH chutes, dont you have reef in the main, or does your mast hold a masthead sail even when the main is reefed? (I think about inverting the mast if the top is not hold in place by the leech of the main)

More about the jib, I'm sure once the breeze is up, a smaller jib is helpful upwind because you can really sail it full and properly trimmed, and sail a proper course.
With a bigger jib you can be overpowered very soon, so end up sailing higher and slower just to hide trying to not heel too much.
An easily driven sporty doesnt need too much driving force upwind, I think it is more a question of balance and equilibrium than brute force.

Downwind I agree with you brute force ( chute size ) is king, but only to go deep, once you're sailing hotter angles the most important is keeping the boat on his feet (under the mast) so that a smaller chute is IMO welcome.

#19 revo

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 10:58 AM

Bit too "open" for me.

come on guys !! you expertssssss, the boat is beautifull, well done !

#20 mezaire

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 12:14 PM

Yeah, ignore the desktop experts here. Unlikely they have every lifted a finger to actually design and build a boat themselves.
There is no way to deduce speed without having advanced computer predictions or tank testing data to review. There are simply too many variables involved.
Fundamentally, any design that keeps the boat moving along in gusts should always do well around the course. The deep keel and high chine alone will help there. There are arguments both ways for wide transoms but personally I like them provided that the maximum width carries a long way forward which this design seems to do well. This ensures the hull rotation is minimised when heeled over, thus minimising keel/rudder drag. My opinion is that drag due to high wetted area is a secondary and minor consideration in the grand scheme of things. Hope she runs well for you.


Don't you love this place??? You honestly say what you think (3rd post) and get nailed for apparently never having designed or built anything themselves. You know nothing about me, what I do or what I have been invlolved in.

Although I have sailed on a fair few different sporties my comments on the chines are purely based on what have them and what they are currently working on, eg boats with super high righting moments. Non canting boats have tried and many failed.

The boat looks very cool and I love the deep keel and think 200kg in the bulb will be a fair start, but re-draw the water line with 300kg of crew weight in the cockpit.

Personally I'd loose the cabin and traveller to make her lighter again, then beef the vang up and vang sheet. Also rudder doesn't look big enough for a wide boat as she heels. Loosing the cabin would also let the crew sit further fwd in the light stuff.

They are my thoughts. I was thinking that posting design pics of a boat on SA you would expect honest, balanced opinions, but apparently some think we should all just kiss the feet of the designer!!

#21 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 12:42 PM

Yeah, ignore the desktop experts here. Unlikely they have every lifted a finger to actually design and build a boat themselves.
There is no way to deduce speed without having advanced computer predictions or tank testing data to review. There are simply too many variables involved.
Fundamentally, any design that keeps the boat moving along in gusts should always do well around the course. The deep keel and high chine alone will help there. There are arguments both ways for wide transoms but personally I like them provided that the maximum width carries a long way forward which this design seems to do well. This ensures the hull rotation is minimised when heeled over, thus minimising keel/rudder drag. My opinion is that drag due to high wetted area is a secondary and minor consideration in the grand scheme of things. Hope she runs well for you.

how on earth did we manage before computers?, desktop expert,

a design that 'keeps moving' should do well 'eh, norah!

hey poida the foiling moth is the fastest dinghy after overtaking the 18 on all yardsticks

funnily enough it has the least wetted surface, it's predeccessor the narrow skiff was at the time the fastest in the class box, again absolute minimisation of wetted surface

Dev classes with very limited sail to fall back on(nat.12, NS14, IC), narrow narrow narrow
not unlike your Sharpie actually, imagine how far behind a fat 'sharpie' would be ?

surely you've heard of 'sticky' fat-arsed yachts dying in lighter weather, it's real

#22 trucdesign

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 02:11 PM

Mez,
you're not supposed to kiss anybody's feet, but to give your opinions

The chine, and deck layout have been deeply discussed with the crew (who is also the building team) .
We choose after comparing different solutions, and we prefered to have a chine.

I pushed to have the little cabine and I explain you why: because having a little shelter is useful. It's not a weight gain, nor a big penalty, the weight difference is minimal. You will always be able to light a cigarette if you have a little shelter, and it is better than not beeing able to do it.
Or go inside and find a warm cloth. It is better than beeing wet.
The boat wont be slower and we think it looks better that way.

Wetted surface is always detrimental, so the bottom is well round to minimize it, when flat and when heeled a bit.

#23 mezaire

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 02:36 PM

Mez,
you're not supposed to kiss anybody's feet, but to give your opinions

The chine, and deck layout have been deeply discussed with the crew (who is also the building team) .
We choose after comparing different solutions, and we prefered to have a chine.

I pushed to have the little cabine and I explain you why: because having a little shelter is useful. It's not a weight gain, nor a big penalty, the weight difference is minimal. You will always be able to light a cigarette if you have a little shelter, and it is better than not beeing able to do it.
Or go inside and find a warm cloth. It is better than beeing wet.
The boat wont be slower and we think it looks better that way.

Wetted surface is always detrimental, so the bottom is well round to minimize it, when flat and when heeled a bit.


Fair enough on the cabin, sailed sporties with and without and now prefer without as it means the control systems can be put anywhere, not just where the cabin is not!! And yes you're right, a cabin always looks better!!!

A question on the main control systems.......will you run the traveller control fwd to the mainsheet position? I am also a fan of running the vang control to the mainsheet hand as it's much better for him to have control in a bear away.
Central control box on the cockpit floor maybe??

#24 trucdesign

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 02:53 PM

My last one had not cabin and no traveler, and now I want both! just a little confort you know, without a cabin it's just like being on a dinghy.

Yes we'll the traveler lines forward, I want both the helmsman and the trimmer to be able to control it.
It is true that you can go without a traveler , but it is a useful toy to play the mainsail's shape.
We still have details to sort on deck, during that time the boys are building the hull.

#25 steveromagnino

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 04:38 PM

To Seacube, about the sailplan

Kestrahl, some considerations about sailing in big breeze on a sporty: you only run MH chutes, dont you have reef in the main, or does your mast hold a masthead sail even when the main is reefed? (I think about inverting the mast if the top is not hold in place by the leech of the main)

More about the jib, I'm sure once the breeze is up, a smaller jib is helpful upwind because you can really sail it full and properly trimmed, and sail a proper course.
With a bigger jib you can be overpowered very soon, so end up sailing higher and slower just to hide trying to not heel too much.
An easily driven sporty doesnt need too much driving force upwind, I think it is more a question of balance and equilibrium than brute force.

Downwind I agree with you brute force ( chute size ) is king, but only to go deep, once you're sailing hotter angles the most important is keeping the boat on his feet (under the mast) so that a smaller chute is IMO welcome.

kestrahl makes our class std Shaw 650 sails, and I think most of us in the fleet using those sails have been in 25-30+ knots and I think 35+ knots for a couple of the boats in NZ.

Basically, there is no reefs in the main, and you don't sail it reefed, you just run loads of rig tension, blade out the main with and the square top twists away, and you actively sheet it upwind (quite often it's not really doing anything except in the lower section). In NZ and also in the short but grunty rain storms up here in Asia, you don't always get the privelege of changing, you run with what you have out at sea. Even when everything seems to be completely counterproductive trim wise, it is surprisingly quick sailing upwind like this and not hard to walk away from much larger boats running reefs and smaller headsails etc.

Downwind the main is can support the mast via the leech but anyhow the Shaws have a pretty well sorted rig and angles so the top of the mast is supported; also these lighter boats don't tend to sail into the back of waves and stop; so you don't have the big peak loads when the boat stops dead while the rig is still wanting to keep going. Also the Shaw 650 rigs are quite moderate in height compared to a T650 or some of the french fat ass boats. The only people who ever describe the Shaw rigs as big are Viper guys who are right down the same corner of design - narrow waterline, smallish moderate rig/horsepower, lightweight boat - I think it was Gybeset that equated the set up with a high performance fully sorted turboed 4 cylinder car; big rig big bulb is more like a V8 with loads more power, but not necessarily faster.

Smaller change down jib is definitely a nice way to go, and helps a lot to keep the boat on her feet upwind and on 2 sail reaching, which is probably the most difficult angle to keep the boat flat. We would start to think about changing down in a constant 20+ knots and actually have never raced with it to date (because of the inability to change sails easily during a day out at sea, and you get some idea of the usual winds up in Asia), not sure whether Kestrahl used to do the same as he used to sail with a bit more crew weight than us.

With kites, not all the Shaws are set up the same, but most have a running kite around 53-56sqm and a reaching kite also masthead around 40sqm and as you say so you keep the boat flatter when running shyer angles. Kestrahl's one was a bit special as he ran a code zero as well; nice sail to have as long as you aren't racing a handicap rule which looks at the cuts of the kites, in which case it wouldn't really be worthwhile from a handicrap perspective. The benefit of being a sail maker I guess ;-)

#26 trucdesign

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Posted 25 March 2011 - 09:13 PM

work in progress

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#27 Kestrahl

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:47 AM

To Seacube, about the sailplan

I prefere Kestrahl' vision that Ginger's one.
It is very true that having wide separation between gennaker and headstay/jib is good to fill the chute going deep, and helpful when gybing too.

Kestrahl, some considerations about sailing in big breeze on a sporty: you only run MH chutes, dont you have reef in the main, or does your mast hold a masthead sail even when the main is reefed? (I think about inverting the mast if the top is not hold in place by the leech of the main)

More about the jib, I'm sure once the breeze is up, a smaller jib is helpful upwind because you can really sail it full and properly trimmed, and sail a proper course.
With a bigger jib you can be overpowered very soon, so end up sailing higher and slower just to hide trying to not heel too much.
An easily driven sporty doesnt need too much driving force upwind, I think it is more a question of balance and equilibrium than brute force.

Downwind I agree with you brute force ( chute size ) is king, but only to go deep, once you're sailing hotter angles the most important is keeping the boat on his feet (under the mast) so that a smaller chute is IMO welcome.


Yes we never had a reef in the main, the luff curve will be very wrong with a reef. We ran a lot of rig tension on the top stays with prebend in the top of the mast skiff style. Beware of to much prebend in the top, the mast will sheer off forward just above the hounds. To little prebend in the top section and the mast will invert, just enough and it will stand straight when under extreme load. Only option with main reefing is smaller main, which the new owner of my boat brought.

A smaller jib is definitely helpful.

Size is king, also is prod length, with a longer prod you end up with shorter MG percentages and a more efficient shape, more breathing room and it also keeps the helm neutral which adds to control. In a perfect world you would have 10 downwind/reaching sails to choose from and the fractional does get the COE lower for reaching but with code zero type sails we felt that a bigger flatter MH code zero was faster than a deeper fractional gennaker of the same area.
As Kip said we are not restricted to silly MG rules here where if its under x% then its classed as a headsail and ruins your rating.

#28 trucdesign

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:26 PM

I like when a new boat is taking shape

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#29 fdsailor

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 08:35 PM

Whats the construction method?

#30 Rum Monkey

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:07 PM

Whats the construction method?

that would be called cold moulded-run one layer at 45 and the next at the other 45 glued together and maybe one layer fore and aft

#31 Poida

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:44 AM

I'm just saying that anybody who thinks they can take a look at a few pics and determine whether a boat is fast or not is kidding themselves. There are too many factors involved.
And how does comparing a sportboat to a moth even make sense?

#32 stinky

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 02:17 AM


Whats the construction method?

that would be called cold moulded-run one layer at 45 and the next at the other 45 glued together and maybe one layer fore and aft


looks like that's the plug they're building. MDF topsides would be heavy :blink:.

#33 trucdesign

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 07:08 AM



Whats the construction method?

that would be called cold moulded-run one layer at 45 and the next at the other 45 glued together and maybe one layer fore and aft


looks like that's the plug they're building. MDF topsides would be heavy :blink:.



Yes Stinky is right that's the plug

#34 twist & depth

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 03:29 AM

Nice looking boat, and I agree with truc regarding the traveller and the little cabin. I believe massaging a square head into shape is better done with a traveller IMHO, and I'd lead all mainsail controls back to the main trimmer. I like a fine tune as well, the mainsheet trim changes are very subtle for big effect. I am no fan of vang sheeting square heads on a sporty, they are limited to a hull speed, unlike planing skiffs or cats, so boom down as a gust response just means lower in my experience, not dramatically faster. Just enough vang in a breeze to help bend the mast enough to flatten the sail, but not enough to control the head when you need a tiny ease to keep the boat on its feet. Ease too much sheet when heavily vanged and the head just (relatively) stands up as the boom goes down !
I like the little cabin, its logical, stylish, and practical, especially for buster loving euro types.
As I understand it, theres an optimal point for I relative to the masts stiffness. The higher you get increases the compression loads, transferring control imperatives from the top to the bottom. Obviously you can increase stiffness, but then weight and or size may become issues. But a stiff mast with even bend certainly seems to have plenty of merit on a sporty, though I still can't work out how Julian Bethwaite keeps the mast in his original sports 8, and the things are super quick. Theres never anything written in stone is there, haha.
I look forward to seeing the progress of the build, good luck.

#35 trucdesign

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 07:15 AM

Progress is quite fast at this stage: bottom cold molding complete

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#36 Speng

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 03:00 PM

+1 for no cabin but if the owners want it then that's what has to happen. The vang angle is pretty shallow because of it though... I think if you have an aft trav on the fairly wide stern then maybe you can go vangless(?). Also if the boat is for some point to point racing then maybe transverse jib tracks rather than longitudinal so you can get the jib clew out when reaching? Regarding the beam I think if the boat is not just for up-down racing then a little extra beam for the form stability is a good compromise as on a reach sheer grunt is often a good thing

As usual Paolo your drawings are beautiful.

#37 trucdesign

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 08:37 AM

Thank you Speng and Twist

it is true that our traveler will be a powerful tool as it's wide and aft, but I still think it is better to have the vang to fine tune the mainsail.
Vang tension limit the booms pumping up and down which happens in some situations and it's slow, it also avoid the boom pointing skywards if the gybe is not under full control.
That said, the sailmakers are top knotch from the Ullman loft, so I know I can trust them about jib cars etc.. (another possibility is choosing a floating barber hauler system instead of the jib car, we'll see) and to build sails that are well matched with the mast.

The hull shape is a compromise studied to have form stability when reaching, but still little drag when sailing downwind and searching for depth,
so we choose to have a maximum width chine (staying inside 2,5 m width for trailering) but quite clear of the water because we know it will be hard to keep the boat flat when power reaching (some of the races we'll participate want lifelines, in others hiking straps and even trapezes are allowed).

#38 trucdesign

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Posted 11 May 2011 - 10:55 AM

Updated pics: plug is done, they're actually building the mould on it
The blog is up too: http://share640.tumblr.com/
Attached File  8.jpg   25.83K   54 downloadsjpg]

cheers

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  • Attached File  9.jpg   23.26K   66 downloads


#39 jkdubs808

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 05:13 AM

Nice work! I've been following this since it started and will continue to do so.

Is it going to be E glass or carbon?

#40 trucdesign

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 07:22 AM

Nice work! I've been following this since it started and will continue to do so.

Is it going to be E glass or carbon?


Yes they're working hard, and well.
The hull will be glass/foam sandwich, trying to keep the cost reasonable

#41 Kestrahl

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 06:32 AM

Nice looking boat, and I agree with truc regarding the traveller and the little cabin. I believe massaging a square head into shape is better done with a traveller IMHO, and I'd lead all mainsail controls back to the main trimmer. I like a fine tune as well, the mainsheet trim changes are very subtle for big effect. I am no fan of vang sheeting square heads on a sporty, they are limited to a hull speed, unlike planing skiffs or cats, so boom down as a gust response just means lower in my experience, not dramatically faster. Just enough vang in a breeze to help bend the mast enough to flatten the sail, but not enough to control the head when you need a tiny ease to keep the boat on its feet. Ease too much sheet when heavily vanged and the head just (relatively) stands up as the boom goes down !
I like the little cabin, its logical, stylish, and practical, especially for buster loving euro types.
As I understand it, theres an optimal point for I relative to the masts stiffness. The higher you get increases the compression loads, transferring control imperatives from the top to the bottom. Obviously you can increase stiffness, but then weight and or size may become issues. But a stiff mast with even bend certainly seems to have plenty of merit on a sporty, though I still can't work out how Julian Bethwaite keeps the mast in his original sports 8, and the things are super quick. Theres never anything written in stone is there, haha.
I look forward to seeing the progress of the build, good luck.


It depends what kind of sportie it is. We were lucky enough to have 2 shaws here with identical masts and mains, one with a full width aft traveller and one with bridle and vang sheeting(my old boat). With the vang sheeting it needed check stays and a stiffer boom section (booms were ultra high mod carbon so extremely stiff), but overall I think the traveler setup was heavier. As far as controlling the head of the sail and leech tension there was very little difference, the well setup vang system was able to stall the leech up to medium breeze the same as the mainsheet/traveller. Above that the head of the sail was self de-powering. The disadvantage with the traveler was reaction time in gusty conditions, at one time causing a capsize. But this only relates to the shaw which is probably alot more like a skiff than most of the other sport boats out there.

#42 trucdesign

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:19 AM

Big progress:

the hull mold is laminated and complete now, the whole thing turned up to work on deck

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#43 dde

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:34 PM

Absolutely love this project, nice work. Do you mind if I ask how "young" you guys are? I'm just curious because I've spent the last 3 years since I was 16 on and off drawing out something similar, but more towards Mini class regulations rather than a sportboat. Don't ask about drawings, I have a 2" binder full of doodles and blueprint and no scanner.

#44 trucdesign

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 06:18 AM

Absolutely love this project, nice work. Do you mind if I ask how "young" you guys are? I'm just curious because I've spent the last 3 years since I was 16 on and off drawing out something similar, but more towards Mini class regulations rather than a sportboat. Don't ask about drawings, I have a 2" binder full of doodles and blueprint and no scanner.


Thanks DDE , I'm the designer and I'm 32 (I like to think I'm young) the builders are 22 and 24 (with the huge help of the father of one of them, who is experienced having built differents race boats including minis) and the projet manager is 45, but still young inside.

#45 seacube

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 08:38 AM

... and the projet manager is 45, but still young inside.


Thanks for the young inside (hoping not too deep) but I'm 47, sigh :(

#46 trucdesign

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 08:47 AM


... and the projet manager is 45, but still young inside.


Thanks for the young inside (hoping not too deep) but I'm 47, sigh :(



You look younger!

#47 trucdesign

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 08:01 AM

They're working hard on the deck plug, fast forward

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#48 trucdesign

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 08:03 AM

.

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#49 dogwatch

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:20 AM

I'm sorry to hear your boat is nasty. That must be a disappointment. I hope you get a nice one in the future.

#50 trucdesign

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 09:32 AM

I'm sorry to hear your boat is nasty. That must be a disappointment. I hope you get a nice one in the future.


I'm sure we'll teach her how to behave well

#51 barnone

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:45 PM

Really cool boat.

Might as well add my 2 cents as another armchair designer.

That single rudder looks problematic with such a wide arse. Would be thinking twins for sure like the Open 6.50's etc. Cassette style would be the bomb.

Fractional chute is a shame with the rig you have since it would support masthead. The rotating rig boats run fractional and it makes them reaching machine's instead of deep and fast machines. If sail area is the issue, run a smaller kite, but not having it blanketed behind the main is so much better with masthead. You could still have a frac option by using a deflector at frac position.

Even in a windy spot, frac means not being able to go as deep, espec with that big main which is actually a liability in the big wind. Unless maybe as a sailmaker you know how to make a frac kite that can sail well deep. If you do, I need to talk to you. ;)

Great project. Can't wait to see her sail.

#52 yachtie2k4

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 07:36 AM

hey truc, how is the boat going?
cheers
rob
another fantastic looking boat from you.. wish i could afford to build one of your boats as i would!!!

#53 trucdesign

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:17 AM

Thanks Rob, thanks Barnone

the building is going quite fast and withtout any trouble, they are fairing the deck plug now and will be ready to splash the mould next week.

About the gennaker, a little frac kite (as in this Velivolo pic) is beatiful to sail hot angles in strong breeze. The slowest boat on the race course is the one which spend the time on her side...so a frac sail will help in the hot reaching legs.
A big masthead one is what you need to run deep in windward-leeward races, when running for vmg size matter, this is the truth.

So, I want both onboard

cheers
Paolo

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#54 Teaky

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 09:30 AM

This is the truth.

#55 F&B

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 11:36 AM

Ruth.

#56 ajbram

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 06:05 PM

Its been almost a month since the last update. How is the boat coming along?

#57 trucdesign

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Posted 18 July 2011 - 08:49 AM

Its been almost a month since the last update. How is the boat coming along?



Yes sorry, I wasnt there, I was in France to launch and test another new boat.
Last news from the Nasty builders is the coachroof mould is done,the hull mold too and they're now finishing the deck to splash the deck mould.

#58 trucdesign

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:19 AM

Out of the mold, with hull and deck assembled

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#59 lickety-split

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:09 PM

Looks great!

#60 DIMITRIS

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:48 PM

Out of the mold, with hull and deck assembled

Nice shape hull it looks really fast and nasty...it is nice to see that the build had progressed.

#61 yachtie2k4

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:16 AM

just a little sidetrack truc, how is velivolo going?have U got some more pics of here

#62 trucdesign

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:49 AM

just a little sidetrack truc, how is velivolo going?have U got some more pics of here



It's a shame but I dont have the time now to sail it, different projects going on so the velivolo is sleeping quietly in the boatyard.
My site is now up and running with some cool pics of it (sailing, not waiting to sail...)

#63 trucdesign

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 06:52 AM


Out of the mold, with hull and deck assembled

Nice shape hull it looks really fast and nasty...it is nice to see that the build had progressed.



Thanks, it has been long, but now all the tooling is done and the guys are ready to start the second hull.
There are pics here: http://share640.tumblr.com/

#64 duncan

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 08:55 PM

nice!

#65 trucdesign

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:19 AM

progress progress... now it's time to weight it

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#66 stealth

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:30 AM

progress progress... now it's time to weight it


Looks really cool. Can't wait to see the finished boat.

#67 facthunt

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:22 PM


progress progress... now it's time to weight it


Looks really cool. Can't wait to see the finished boat.



says singapore should be lismore?

#68 trucdesign

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:53 AM

better pics

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#69 trucdesign

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:16 AM

almost ready

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#70 trucdesign

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:53 AM

In the water for a first sail in little breeze

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#71 Icebear

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:39 PM

Very deep keel. What is the draft?


#72 trucdesign

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:41 PM

2 meters, but I have the feeling the builder did it deeper

#73 trucdesign

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:52 PM

Little breeze continues

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#74 yachtie2k4

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:58 AM

hey paolo,
it looks awesome
just thought i would let you know that i tried your website but it doesn't work to well, the pics don't show up when you go to the projects section
cheers
rob

#75 trucdesign

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 05:37 PM

Thanks Rob,

which browser are you using? I see it without problem with mozilla and explorer, but I'll let my webmaster know that there is a problem.

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#76 DIMITRIS

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:06 PM

Paolo it came along very nicely (also congrats to the the guys that have builded) .....and it looks quick also....

#77 Fun police

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 12:10 AM

Flatter boys

Looks nice but personally not a fan of sharp chines but if it's fast I could change that opinion. Boat looks nice well done

Sails look like cling foil. Hope it's not windy

#78 yachtie2k4

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 06:23 AM

am using chrome

#79 trucdesign

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:52 AM

am using chrome


Thanks I'll tell that to the guy, he has a some new material to put online

#80 trucdesign

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:58 AM

Thanks Dimitris and Obsessed, the builders are amazed by the speed in the little breeze they sailed (mediterranean summer breeze, up to 10 kn by now) and are waiting to find out in some more pressure.

10 to 15 deg of heel is effective to exploit the chine, better that dead flat in most conditions, and I'm pretty sure the sailmaker did choose the right material, the guys at ullman know what they do .

#81 trucdesign

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:43 PM

Finally some video:



#82 trucdesign

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 01:55 PM

and a little more breeze:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=113117655506654

#83 fullsail

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:18 PM

Superbe dessin, superbe bateau Truc

#84 trucdesign

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:22 PM

Superbe dessin, superbe bateau Truc


Merçi mon pot, it's quite a different shape from what I usually do, but I like the way she sails

#85 couchsurfer

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 05:00 PM

and a little more breeze:

https://www.facebook...113117655506654


...she looks SWEET!!!
...oh yeh,nice boat too :rolleyes:

#86 Speng

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

Paolo. It looks absolutely lovely. I see they went for a big kite after all. Is there going to be a code whatever for blast reaching on the distance stuff?

#87 trucdesign

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 09:42 AM

Thanks Speng,

yes they'll have a code for the reaching, it's not there now but they started racing and all is going well, they're winning in little and strong breeze too and getting good satisfaction as there is a bunch of shitboxes in they're class but a bunch of good fast boats too (mostly a good fleet of Ufo 28 and Delta 84 that sail at good level, and the guys onboard our Share are apparently consistently faster )

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#88 trucdesign

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

Paolo. It looks absolutely lovely. I see they went for a big kite after all. Is there going to be a code whatever for blast reaching on the distance stuff?


The code whatever they made is a masthead drifter, taked mid-bowsprit, which looks to be quite a weapon in the light stuff.
This year Barcolana was a drifter, very little breeze (the winner esimit ex alfa romeo, did the regata in 4 hours, their own record is something like 55 min) and the guys managed to arrive 55th overall (more that 1700 boats started) 1st in their class and battled with much bigger badass boats.

When the breeze is on, they fly.

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