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#301 Lucky Luke

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 09:21 AM

Hello Yves Marie,

Absolutely great thread, and thanks to you, YM.T. specially for showing the drawings of so many Dick Carter's boats.

Would you, by chance, have anything about "Coriolan" (the first of the name: the D. Carter designed one). Her lines were closely derived from Tina, and it was the success of this boat that made Christian de Galea ask Dick for the biggest boat he had designed at that time. It was a good gamble!!! Coriolan, which you certainly well knew, was a remarkable boat, and the best French "Class 1 RORC" boat at her time. After some good races in the channel on her first year, she moved down South and had Toulon as her home port.

After "Tonio" had left, I was the "skipper" of Coriolan in 75/76 (her last racing years). We were not called "skippers, in those days, but more humbly "marins de yacht" as a good part of our duty, besides the maintenance, deliveries to the owner's cruising sites or to race departures/ after race returns, was also service aboard for the owner and guests. In those days, racing boats were, before anything else: yachts, and had to be back in "yacht style" the moment the races were over. There were some characters in our gang, starting by Raphael (R.I.P.), who taught me how to sharpen a scraper (and taught Alain Gabbay how to do a bowline knot: we were just young boys in those days), and later Boris Terpin, skipper of Von Karajan's "Helisara" one to three, Juan Ochoantesama, skipper of "Emeraude" one to three, Jean Michel Strauseissen (R.I.P.), skipper of many boats but the best being "Fantasque" (the Silvestro built, Mauric designed Class two), and the maxi that followed, "Pipo" (R.I.P...again!), skipper of Chrismur II (S.S. designed, F. Maas built sistership of Ragamuffin) on which boat I raced as crew, and had as skipper later when she was not a racer anymore, and so many others, many gone now, whose name I have forgotten....and history has too!!!

So many memories, but it was definitely "Coriolan" that gave me the best ones, from when we got caught in gale force winds in the Middle Sea Race and did beat "Ondine" in the night - just to lose all our advantage in the Messine straights later...! (I was just crew at that time) , to the most fantastic start I ever lived after a miserable Week of Porto Cervo where the crew (I was then the "marin de yacht") had damaged nearly all our spinnakers doing "spi-vole", ripped off part of the deck as a Lewmar 55 that went away like a cannonball, with some twenty boats at ten knots on a downwind start, just centimeters away from each other (we led the whole fleet for over an hour!), ...or to the most ridiculous Marseille- Porquerolles- Marseille, where we were eight miles away from the departure line after... 48 hours!!!. Only Christina (a Swan 48') and a alittle devil of a flat out racer converted "Challenger" whose name I can't recall, winner of so many races, had the luck - and talent - to have caught some wind that took them away from the rest of the 50 strong fleet: two boats only finished the race!!!

Coriolan strength was beating to windward in strong winds, and moreover from broad reach to downwind, the moment she could hoist her dreaded black and yellow spinnaker. She would the roll like a pendulum, broach after sinking her foredeck in green water, but gee: she was fast!

Of course now, when I see these VOR...... :( :( :(

#302 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 01:16 PM

Je me souviens de tous ces noms.
Coriolan pour Christian de Galea est arrive apres Palynodie le bateau en acier de Gaston Deferre.
Also built by Frans Maas at Breskens, but this time with an Airex core she was considerably lighter.
De Christian, c'est surtout son voilier d' avant "Le Cid" que j'aimais beaucoup.
http://www.tantonyac...gn.blogspot.com

Hello Yves Marie,

Absolutely great thread, and thanks to you, YM.T. specially for showing the drawings of so many Dick Carter's boats.

Would you, by chance, have anything about "Coriolan" (the first of the name: the D. Carter designed one). Her lines were closely derived from Tina, and it was the success of this boat that made Christian de Galea ask Dick for the biggest boat he had designed at that time. It was a good gamble!!! Coriolan, which you certainly well knew, was a remarkable boat, and the best French "Class 1 RORC" boat at her time. After some good races in the channel on her first year, she moved down South and had Toulon as her home port.

After "Tonio" had left, I was the "skipper" of Coriolan in 75/76 (her last racing years). We were not called "skippers, in those days, but more humbly "marins de yacht" as a good part of our duty, besides the maintenance, deliveries to the owner's cruising sites or to race departures/ after race returns, was also service aboard for the owner and guests. In those days, racing boats were, before anything else: yachts, and had to be back in "yacht style" the moment the races were over. There were some characters in our gang, starting by Raphael (R.I.P.), who taught me how to sharpen a scraper (and taught Alain Gabbay how to do a bowline knot: we were just young boys in those days), and later Boris Terpin, skipper of Von Karajan's "Helisara" one to three, Juan Ochoantesama, skipper of "Emeraude" one to three, Jean Michel Strauseissen (R.I.P.), skipper of many boats but the best being "Fantasque" (the Silvestro built, Mauric designed Class two), and the maxi that followed, "Pipo" (R.I.P...again!), skipper of Chrismur II (S.S. designed, F. Maas built sistership of Ragamuffin) on which boat I raced as crew, and had as skipper later when she was not a racer anymore, and so many others, many gone now, whose name I have forgotten....and history has too!!!

So many memories, but it was definitely "Coriolan" that gave me the best ones, from when we got caught in gale force winds in the Middle Sea Race and did beat "Ondine" in the night - just to lose all our advantage in the Messine straights later...! (I was just crew at that time) , to the most fantastic start I ever lived after a miserable Week of Porto Cervo where the crew (I was then the "marin de yacht") had damaged nearly all our spinnakers doing "spi-vole", ripped off part of the deck as a Lewmar 55 that went away like a cannonball, with some twenty boats at ten knots on a downwind start, just centimeters away from each other (we led the whole fleet for over an hour!), ...or to the most ridiculous Marseille- Porquerolles- Marseille, where we were eight miles away from the departure line after... 48 hours!!!. Only Christina (a Swan 48') and a alittle devil of a flat out racer converted "Challenger" whose name I can't recall, winner of so many races, had the luck - and talent - to have caught some wind that took them away from the rest of the 50 strong fleet: two boats only finished the race!!!

Coriolan strength was beating to windward in strong winds, and moreover from broad reach to downwind, the moment she could hoist her dreaded black and yellow spinnaker. She would the roll like a pendulum, broach after sinking her foredeck in green water, but gee: she was fast!

Of course now, when I see these VOR...... :( :( :(



#303 chorus1

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:19 AM

Hello Yves Marie,

Absolutely great thread, and thanks to you, YM.T. specially for showing the drawings of so many Dick Carter's boats.

Would you, by chance, have anything about "Coriolan" (the first of the name: the D. Carter designed one). Her lines were closely derived from Tina, and it was the success of this boat that made Christian de Galea ask Dick for the biggest boat he had designed at that time. It was a good gamble!!! Coriolan, which you certainly well knew, was a remarkable boat, and the best French "Class 1 RORC" boat at her time. After some good races in the channel on her first year, she moved down South and had Toulon as her home port.

After "Tonio" had left, I was the "skipper" of Coriolan in 75/76 (her last racing years). We were not called "skippers, in those days, but more humbly "marins de yacht" as a good part of our duty, besides the maintenance, deliveries to the owner's cruising sites or to race departures/ after race returns, was also service aboard for the owner and guests. In those days, racing boats were, before anything else: yachts, and had to be back in "yacht style" the moment the races were over. There were some characters in our gang, starting by Raphael (R.I.P.), who taught me how to sharpen a scraper (and taught Alain Gabbay how to do a bowline knot: we were just young boys in those days), and later Boris Terpin, skipper of Von Karajan's "Helisara" one to three, Juan Ochoantesama, skipper of "Emeraude" one to three, Jean Michel Strauseissen (R.I.P.), skipper of many boats but the best being "Fantasque" (the Silvestro built, Mauric designed Class two), and the maxi that followed, "Pipo" (R.I.P...again!), skipper of Chrismur II (S.S. designed, F. Maas built sistership of Ragamuffin) on which boat I raced as crew, and had as skipper later when she was not a racer anymore, and so many others, many gone now, whose name I have forgotten....and history has too!!!

So many memories, but it was definitely "Coriolan" that gave me the best ones, from when we got caught in gale force winds in the Middle Sea Race and did beat "Ondine" in the night - just to lose all our advantage in the Messine straights later...! (I was just crew at that time) , to the most fantastic start I ever lived after a miserable Week of Porto Cervo where the crew (I was then the "marin de yacht") had damaged nearly all our spinnakers doing "spi-vole", ripped off part of the deck as a Lewmar 55 that went away like a cannonball, with some twenty boats at ten knots on a downwind start, just centimeters away from each other (we led the whole fleet for over an hour!), ...or to the most ridiculous Marseille- Porquerolles- Marseille, where we were eight miles away from the departure line after... 48 hours!!!. Only Christina (a Swan 48') and a alittle devil of a flat out racer converted "Challenger" whose name I can't recall, winner of so many races, had the luck - and talent - to have caught some wind that took them away from the rest of the 50 strong fleet: two boats only finished the race!!!

Coriolan strength was beating to windward in strong winds, and moreover from broad reach to downwind, the moment she could hoist her dreaded black and yellow spinnaker. She would the roll like a pendulum, broach after sinking her foredeck in green water, but gee: she was fast!

Of course now, when I see these VOR...... :( :( :(


Coriolan coule des jours heureux à Arradon, Morbihan. Il est en bel état, toujours aussi beau :)
Si je pouvais retrouver des plans de profil, celà ferait une demi_coque soeur à Izenah :)

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#304 moody frog

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:00 AM

Je me souviens de tous ces noms.
Coriolan pour Christian de Galea est arrive apres Palynodie le bateau en acier de Gaston Deferre.
Also built by Frans Maas at Breskens, but this time with an Airex core she was considerably lighter.
De Christian, c'est surtout son voilier d' avant "Le Cid" que j'aimais beaucoup.
http://www.tantonyac...gn.blogspot.com


Sounds as if we share a lot of yacht-loves Y_M!
After admiring her lines on the water, I worked on her main mast, in '77 in Sanary, and could witness the superb build as one of the last wooden "Jouët" racers.
She was owned at the time by, now world famous, art-dealer Didier Imbert, then only in his twenties.

The second of Eugène Cornu's 12m CR, and the first to be converted into a ketch, she had been built, as "Hallali" for famous Nantes yachtsman Franck Guillet as one of his nearly 50 racing yachts.

Last I heard of her, 3-4 years ago, she was Norwegian owned and racing the scandinavian classics in full shipshape condition.
I understand that rigged back as a sloop, she is now for sale.
Broker

Eugène Cornu stated that the CR rule was producing the soundest and most beautiful boats, I tend to agree with him !

PS: would love to hear what Lucky Luke has to say of the bulbous-bow "Coriolan II" ;)

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#305 MrBootCRM

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:58 PM

I was just bored searching for history of the wonderful Aggressive I grew up with when I stumbled on this thread. I was brought up racing her in the 80's and early 90's and have such fond memories. Sadly the last I saw of her was in 1993 when we sold her to some guy who only made a few payments then vanished into the Caribbean. If anyone has stories about her please I'd love to hear them.

#306 Lucky Luke

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 08:43 AM

PS: would love to hear what Lucky Luke has to say of the bulbous-bow "Coriolan II" ;)


Hi, "Froggy" (qui es tu donc???)

Coriolan II did not have a bulbous bow, although her designer, Jan Kjaerulff (not sure of the spelling anymore....) , was a strong proponent of this feature and used it on some of his cruisers. He was working, at that time, with Paul Elvstrom (no need to introduce....!)

Hiring this young designer (E.K), Ch. de Galea was actually doing a gamble similar to when he had asked Dick Carter to design the first Coriolan, which was D. Carter first "big" boat. Talking about the change of name from "Le Cid", this beautiful E. Cornu 12m CR., to "Coriolan", Christian found that if "Le Cid" was sounding nice, "Le Cid II" (le cidre...), and all the following names would be just wrong! Coriolan would be another "Grand" name that would better accept being followed by numbers...

When I got the first designs of what was going to be Coriolan II in hand, I was as puzzeld as Christian de Galea was shocked!
There were two cockpits, a very wide one aft for the helmsman with two steering stations, and a big central central one for maneuvering. To get from his aft cabin, situated in between these two cockpits, to the saloon forward of the central cockpit, he would have had to crawl in a less that a meter high "tunnel" below the central cockpit. Not exactly the style of the gentlemen Ch. de Galea was!!!
The profile was showing - and has been kept such - a dead-straight keel as the hull was finishing, aft, with a huge, voluminous bustle. Prismatic coefficient must have bee high, for sure, but forget planning with such a shape, something Coriolan loved doing (well: until green water was runing on the deck!) . The scantlings were worrying. I specially remember Christian asking me what was the diameter of the forestay on Coriolan (=12mm.) and if I thought the 8mm. (!!!) that had been specified for Coriolan II would be make it rigid enough? :rolleyes:

I reworked (on Coriolan's chart table) the general layout, proposing to have two long maneuvering cockpits leaving full headroom in between, and where I located the galley constituting of a whole central element entirely gimballed, and at least preserving full headroom between the owners cabin and the saloon. I also proposed something you all have seen now, but which was a first (and I am quite proud to mention that): a huge wheel whose lower part would be in a well instead of the two separate steering station and the complex system it involved. No more than a month later, this feature had been adopted on "France" the 12m JI that j.Kjaerulf and P. Elvstrom where working on, and has been seen everywhere since.

The construction was done by "Chantiers La Perriere", absolutely miserably! This was their first aluminum built, and I know that some later laughed at themselves for all the mistakes they had done on this build! The boat also suffered from an impossibly high rating, and was totally unsuitable for IOR racing. So, she was sold to I do not remember which French racing woman (please refresh my failing memory there), who got some acceptable results after many modifications. That boat was finally scraped.

After that, Christian left racing for a while, and got himself a "Swan 65 (that he loved!) for some years before getting the race virus again with (was it Vaton's???) Coriolan IV.
Our relation had deteriorated since I did not want to go racing in the channel with Coriolan II that on top of that I had foreseen would be a miserable boat, and have have never seen Christian de Galea again after that.

#307 chorus1

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:01 PM

I reworked (on Coriolan's chart table) the general layout, proposing to have two long maneuvering cockpits leaving full headroom in between, and where I located the galley constituting of a whole central element entirely gimballed, and at least preserving full headroom between the owners cabin and the saloon. I also proposed something you all have seen now, but which was a first (and I am quite proud to mention that): a huge wheel whose lower part would be in a well instead of the two separate steering station and the complex system it involved. No more than a month later, this feature had been adopted on "France" the 12m JI that j.Kjaerulf and P. Elvstrom where working on, and has been seen everywhere since.

The construction was done by "Chantiers La Perriere", absolutely miserably! This was their first aluminum built, and I know that some later laughed at themselves for all the mistakes they had done on this build! The boat also suffered from an impossibly high rating, and was totally unsuitable for IOR racing. So, she was sold to I do not remember which French racing woman (please refresh my failing memory there), who got some acceptable results after many modifications. That boat was finally scraped.


You mean Florence Arthaud :)


#308 chorus1

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:06 PM

After that, Christian left racing for a while, and got himself a "Swan 65 (that he loved!) for some years before getting the race virus again with (was it Vaton's???) Coriolan IV.

[/quote]
GIlle Vaton is a french designer, his well known boat was "Charles Heidsieck" hulled by Alain Gabbay , they were 2d in the Withbread.

#309 moody frog

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:00 PM


PS: would love to hear what Lucky Luke has to say of the bulbous-bow "Coriolan II" ;)


Hi, "Froggy" (qui es tu donc???)

Coriolan II did not have a bulbous bow, although her designer, Jan Kjaerulff (not sure of the spelling anymore....) , was a strong proponent of this feature and used it on some of his cruisers. He was working, at that time, with Paul Elvstrom (no need to introduce....!)

Hiring this young designer (E.K), Ch. de Galea was actually doing a gamble similar to when he had asked Dick Carter to design the first Coriolan, which was D. Carter first "big" boat. Talking about the change of name from "Le Cid", this beautiful E. Cornu 12m CR., to "Coriolan", Christian found that if "Le Cid" was sounding nice, "Le Cid II" (le cidre...), and all the following names would be just wrong! Coriolan would be another "Grand" name that would better accept being followed by numbers...

When I got the first designs of what was going to be Coriolan II in hand, I was as puzzeld as Christian de Galea was shocked!
There were two cockpits, a very wide one aft for the helmsman with two steering stations, and a big central central one for maneuvering. To get from his aft cabin, situated in between these two cockpits, to the saloon forward of the central cockpit, he would have had to crawl in a less that a meter high "tunnel" below the central cockpit. Not exactly the style of the gentlemen Ch. de Galea was!!!
The profile was showing - and has been kept such - a dead-straight keel as the hull was finishing, aft, with a huge, voluminous bustle. Prismatic coefficient must have bee high, for sure, but forget planning with such a shape, something Coriolan loved doing (well: until green water was runing on the deck!) . The scantlings were worrying. I specially remember Christian asking me what was the diameter of the forestay on Coriolan (=12mm.) and if I thought the 8mm. (!!!) that had been specified for Coriolan II would be make it rigid enough? :rolleyes:

I reworked (on Coriolan's chart table) the general layout, proposing to have two long maneuvering cockpits leaving full headroom in between, and where I located the galley constituting of a whole central element entirely gimballed, and at least preserving full headroom between the owners cabin and the saloon. I also proposed something you all have seen now, but which was a first (and I am quite proud to mention that): a huge wheel whose lower part would be in a well instead of the two separate steering station and the complex system it involved. No more than a month later, this feature had been adopted on "France" the 12m JI that j.Kjaerulf and P. Elvstrom where working on, and has been seen everywhere since.

The construction was done by "Chantiers La Perriere", absolutely miserably! This was their first aluminum built, and I know that some later laughed at themselves for all the mistakes they had done on this build! The boat also suffered from an impossibly high rating, and was totally unsuitable for IOR racing. So, she was sold to I do not remember which French racing woman (please refresh my failing memory there), who got some acceptable results after many modifications. That boat was finally scraped.

After that, Christian left racing for a while, and got himself a "Swan 65 (that he loved!) for some years before getting the race virus again with (was it Vaton's???) Coriolan IV.
Our relation had deteriorated since I did not want to go racing in the channel with Coriolan II that on top of that I had foreseen would be a miserable boat, and have have never seen Christian de Galea again after that.


Hi Lucky,

Yes the bulb had been cancelled (I over simplified my post ;))

I am just a "much ageing" breton crew of the day. As Coriolan II was somehow masterminded by Eric Duchemin and he drew heavily, for the crew, from the young hard-driving 1/2 ton crew-pool which had fought with or against him in the previous year's RORC champ he won.
I knew all of them and two of my closest friends were on board, I was not racing that year having just been hired by a UK mast-manufacturer but was working at Cowes ans spent most of the time with them in between races.
From the Med, besides the owner, were just coming Dédé Beranger and the owner's friend Michel Schick (sp?)
Foreign addition: Paul Elvström as co-skipper and one of his close associates (I think it was Ib Ussing Andersen) as tactician.
So: a pretty good afterguard and a decent crew, that boat was really a dog and .... yes she was awfully built and overloaded with fairing putty.

Thks for the story on accomodation, for sure the owner did not look too happy with the aft-cabin !
The side cockpits were not too comfortable ;) (especially the leeward one) and it was not helped by the very low boom.

Anyway it was an interesting moment for all, the crew learned a lot in 12m inspired manoeuvers on a heavy and complicated boat and all that perspirated into the Brittany's and Cherbourg racing scenes.
Incidentally that job I had, got me acquainted with le Cid 2-3 years later.

Yes, as Chorus says Florence Arthaud used the boat as "Biotherm" and other names, I think it it ended as part of her brother's sailing-school. found some pics on the internet.

And yes Coriolan IV was a superb Vaton design website
and a Charles Heidsieck's derivative.
Incidentally this just made me remember that a bunch of us borrowed a 1/2 ton to watch Coriolan II at the start of the 1st Adm Cup inshore,deceiptive! and .. Gilles Vaton was one of us ! must have given him a few ideas ;)

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#310 Lucky Luke

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:33 AM

Thanks a lot Chorus for refreshing my memory, and Moody Frog (pourquoi Moody: aurais tu, toi ausi, travaille chez Moddys a Southhampton, ou est-ce simplement to "mood" de vieux Breton?;)) for the pictures and other infos on Coriolan II. Sorry to all for the thread drift since this boat was not a Dick Carter design.

Dede Beranger: Ah! He was the one who helped me getting the job on Coriolan after Tonio had left. A jolly good fellow, and a hell of a great sailor too! How many miles but also how much good time we had in Sanary together.....we were young at that time....!!!!

Michel Schiek (oui, ca devait s'eppeler quelque chose comme ca): a very gentleman and always very pleasant friend of Ch. de Galea - which was not the case of all of them!!!

Anyway: seeing these pictures, Moody frog (comment t'appelles tu? Moi c'est Luc Vernet), also reminds me of one feature I designed, on Coriolan's chart table as I said, which was the two big hatches each side and just aft of the mast. Their intent was to enable to pull down the spinnakers through these hatches while inside the saloon right below, and also hoist them, protected by the main, through these hatches after having eventually prepared them in the saloon with wool strings as we used to do in those days . I don't know if they ever were used for that, how good/ bad it was if used, or if they were just awfully positioned slippery surfaces too close to the mast, and dangerous holes when open ??? :-(

Not surprised that the (small) side cockpits were not too comfortable, specially the leeward one , and having to crawl from one to the other right below the boom, with these winches in the way, must have been a PITA!!! Well: racing not supposed to consider comfort, isn't it ?:rolleyes:

I thought this boat had been scraped....maybe not if she was later used by Jean Marie Arthaud (R.I.P.)...??? Does anyone know?

#311 moody frog

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 09:27 AM

Thanks a lot Chorus for refreshing my memory, and Moody Frog (pourquoi Moody: aurais tu, toi ausi, travaille chez Moddys a Southhampton, ou est-ce simplement to "mood" de vieux Breton?;)) for the pictures and other infos on Coriolan II. Sorry to all for the thread drift since this boat was not a Dick Carter design.

Dede Beranger: Ah! He was the one who helped me getting the job on Coriolan after Tonio had left. A jolly good fellow, and a hell of a great sailor too! How many miles but also how much good time we had in Sanary together.....we were young at that time....!!!!

Michel Schiek (oui, ca devait s'eppeler quelque chose comme ca): a very gentleman and always very pleasant friend of Ch. de Galea - which was not the case of all of them!!!

Anyway: seeing these pictures, Moody frog (comment t'appelles tu? Moi c'est Luc Vernet), also reminds me of one feature I designed, on Coriolan's chart table as I said, which was the two big hatches each side and just aft of the mast. Their intent was to enable to pull down the spinnakers through these hatches while inside the saloon right below, and also hoist them, protected by the main, through these hatches after having eventually prepared them in the saloon with wool strings as we used to do in those days . I don't know if they ever were used for that, how good/ bad it was if used, or if they were just awfully positioned slippery surfaces too close to the mast, and dangerous holes when open ??? :-(

Not surprised that the (small) side cockpits were not too comfortable, specially the leeward one , and having to crawl from one to the other right below the boom, with these winches in the way, must have been a PITA!!! Well: racing not supposed to consider comfort, isn't it ?:rolleyes:

I thought this boat had been scraped....maybe not if she was later used by Jean Marie Arthaud (R.I.P.)...??? Does anyone know?


Well picked Lucky ! Bretons are somehow moody to hold a froggy passport (if they ever were anything else than softly moody).
I worked quite some hours at Moody's but for my mast-making boss.

Yes André Beranger is a super nice guy and one of the best "marin de yacht" there was in the Med, a professional fisherman, he is today the one keeping the sardine net-fishing tradition alive! link-1 et link-2

And yes, the atmosphere in Sanary was superb, especially with the crews of the early large charter yachts (VPM ?), there was always a berth to be found and a small restaurant in town where to spend a winter sunday afternoon.
I later had a business outpost there in the 90's but the atmosphere was gone somehow.

Sure the side hatches were there and used as scheduled, lack of watertightness was more of a problem than danger - as foredeck crews used to say in those days "unless you have a third-sense for avoiding bear-traps, stay in the cockpit".
Moving from one cockpit to the other was not too easy, but handling the winch pedestal was were the the boom was most "felt" ;)

Yacht racing is certainly as good, probably better, now than it was then, but that was definitely the right time to be young !

PM you separately.

#312 j-louis

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 06:38 AM

Up about "Frigate"

http://www.leboncoin...520.htm?ca=13_s

Nothing done since my last words about her and it's disappoints me a lot!!!
The owner seems to seek partners...
Nobody here? I could only give time and my arms to help him.

#313 chorus1

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:26 PM

Up about "Frigate"

http://www.leboncoin...520.htm?ca=13_s

Nothing done since my last words about her and it's disappoints me a lot!!!
The owner seems to seek partners...
Nobody here? I could only give time and my arms to help him.


SO sorry for that old sailin Star.....
I can also gice time and arms if structured project :)

#314 AndyMW

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:11 AM

Enjoyed reading through this thread. This half-tonner is said to be a Dick Carter design built 1976 but was hoping someone could verify if it is a Carter? She's in Singapore and neglected now at the back of a boatyard (found this photo that was taken some years ago) and I'm exploring the possibility of bringing her back to life so trying to contact the current owner. Just having a hard time figuring out her pedigree, although I know many or most IOR half-tonners were one-off prototypes. Any ideas? Thanks all..

Attached File  whitebait.jpg   49.22K   118 downloads

#315 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:51 PM

I believe that she is a Carter. I can tell by the rudder, besides the overall appearance. Could be a C30. I am not sure about the roof. Looks a little short on the picture. Most of the 30's were built in Poland. I have a blog going at: www.tantonyachtdesign.blogspot.com

Enjoyed reading through this thread. This half-tonner is said to be a Dick Carter design built 1976 but was hoping someone could verify if it is a Carter? She's in Singapore and neglected now at the back of a boatyard (found this photo that was taken some years ago) and I'm exploring the possibility of bringing her back to life so trying to contact the current owner. Just having a hard time figuring out her pedigree, although I know many or most IOR half-tonners were one-off prototypes. Any ideas? Thanks all..

Attached File  whitebait.jpg   49.22K   118 downloads



#316 AndyMW

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:35 PM

I believe that she is a Carter. I can tell by the rudder, besides the overall appearance. Could be a C30. I am not sure about the roof. Looks a little short on the picture. Most of the 30's were built in Poland. I have a blog going at: www.tantonyachtdesign.blogspot.com


Enjoyed reading through this thread. This half-tonner is said to be a Dick Carter design built 1976 but was hoping someone could verify if it is a Carter? She's in Singapore and neglected now at the back of a boatyard (found this photo that was taken some years ago) and I'm exploring the possibility of bringing her back to life so trying to contact the current owner. Just having a hard time figuring out her pedigree, although I know many or most IOR half-tonners were one-off prototypes. Any ideas? Thanks all..

Attached File  whitebait.jpg   49.22K   118 downloads


That's great, and really appreciated. Interesting comment on the roof so I dug around again in my old archived photos as I knew I had one or two more of her sitting on the water around 3 years back before being hauled back to land and forgotten about. Hopefully with this better angle you might be able to confirm if it's a C30 or not (Competition 30, correct?). I can't seem to find any images on the net that shows this model to confirm myself, so again any help very welcome! Looking forward to going through your blog too, thanks for the link.

Attached Files



#317 SilverSurfer

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:17 PM

I believe that it's too big to be a Carter 30 or 1/2 ton. More likely a Carter 3/4 ton.

Take a look at the pictures in this thread:

http://forums.sailin...showtopic=97978

As far as I remember the Carter 30 was built in Greece - it had a long coach roof similar to the Carter 33 and a very short cockpit.

Used to race against the 3/4 in the late 70'ties. That same boat is still in Denmark. Will try to get some pictures the next time I pass by.

Had the brochure of the Carter 3/4 ton until recently - complete with specifications of how the glassfibre was to be laid up....

Might still be around - will get back if I find it.

Cheers,

#318 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 06:58 PM

I think Surfer is correct. That is a Carter 3/4 tonner. It is not a production 33 or 30.
I'll dig and see if I can find a brochure.

#319 Great White

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:51 PM

Attached File  01.jpg   576.48K   61 downloads
Here is a Carter 3/4 tonner in Puget Sound. This picture was taken by me in the early 80's. According to my records(and the sail number), this was "Tzores" and is now "Carpe Diem". It looks like in the late 70's, we had three in Puget Sound: "Tzores", "Jadah" and "Tapocketa".

#320 AndyMW

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:23 AM

Yes, I think everything seems to be pointing to the 3/4, not half-ton when comparing all the images. In the flesh she appears more like a 30ish sized boat but always hard to gauge. Will try and run a tape down the length next time I'm in the boatyard and maybe take a couple more snaps of the cockpit and other details. Thanks all for taking the time - and if you ever come across a brochure, do think of me :)

#321 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

Now looking at the added pictures, I can see a Carter 3/4 Ton.

#322 AndyMW

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:02 AM

Just thought I'd update you all. Confirmed she is 30' LOA (the photos do make her look bigger) and after much research I discovered a very interesting document from Carter Offshore Ltd in the UK which I believe describes this boat. I can't attach the pdf here but here's a passage from the document:

"Top performance: the new 'Carter 1/2 Ton Race Machine' is based on the hull of the tried and tested Carter 30 which has just started racing in Britain, with a fully fitted out cruising interior, teak cockpit and all the luxuries. She has just cleaned up in Clyde Week with three firsts and two seconds, winning the Half Ton section easily against Scampis, Nicholson 30's, a Northern Comfort and others. The Half Ton Race machine can only do better, with a lighter grp deck, minimal interior and a deck layout designed exclusively for racing efficiency."

So I think she must be the 'Carter 1/2 Ton Race Machine' which was built at Northshore Yachts in the UK - great name :) I suspect there was limited production vs. the original Carter 30. Still very keen to take her on as a worthy project if the numbers add up.

#323 chorus1

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:49 AM

Just thought I'd update you all. Confirmed she is 30' LOA (the photos do make her look bigger) and after much research I discovered a very interesting document from Carter Offshore Ltd in the UK which I believe describes this boat. I can't attach the pdf here but here's a passage from the document:

"Top performance: the new 'Carter 1/2 Ton Race Machine' is based on the hull of the tried and tested Carter 30 which has just started racing in Britain, with a fully fitted out cruising interior, teak cockpit and all the luxuries. She has just cleaned up in Clyde Week with three firsts and two seconds, winning the Half Ton section easily against Scampis, Nicholson 30's, a Northern Comfort and others. The Half Ton Race machine can only do better, with a lighter grp deck, minimal interior and a deck layout designed exclusively for racing efficiency."

So I think she must be the 'Carter 1/2 Ton Race Machine' which was built at Northshore Yachts in the UK - great name :) I suspect there was limited production vs. the original Carter 30. Still very keen to take her on as a worthy project if the numbers add up.


Well done Andy !

Could you scan the carter Offshore doc and attach it on a new post ?

#324 moody frog

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:45 AM

Just thought I'd update you all. Confirmed she is 30' LOA (the photos do make her look bigger) and after much research I discovered a very interesting document from Carter Offshore Ltd in the UK which I believe describes this boat. I can't attach the pdf here but here's a passage from the document:

"Top performance: the new 'Carter 1/2 Ton Race Machine' is based on the hull of the tried and tested Carter 30 which has just started racing in Britain, with a fully fitted out cruising interior, teak cockpit and all the luxuries. She has just cleaned up in Clyde Week with three firsts and two seconds, winning the Half Ton section easily against Scampis, Nicholson 30's, a Northern Comfort and others. The Half Ton Race machine can only do better, with a lighter grp deck, minimal interior and a deck layout designed exclusively for racing efficiency."

So I think she must be the 'Carter 1/2 Ton Race Machine' which was built at Northshore Yachts in the UK - great name :) I suspect there was limited production vs. the original Carter 30. Still very keen to take her on as a worthy project if the numbers add up.


I had not commented earlier as I was not too sure, but this fits with what I had in mind, I believe I saw one at the '75 London Boat Show, which looked very much as a scaled down Carter 3/4 ton (european version).

I doubt they got many orders for the racing version as the "craze" was then going in an other direction.

Although I believe that Northshore changed hands at least once, they might be able to help you: it's such a nice yacht.

http://www.northshore.co.uk/

#325 AndyMW

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:35 AM

Thanks guys, but I still can't figure out how to attach a document (if that's possible) but if you google the following, you will be able to download the full pdf: Carter_30_Halftonner_008.pdf

It's great as it describes all the original spec which would be handy for a refit.

#326 chorus1

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:33 PM

Thanks guys, but I still can't figure out how to attach a document (if that's possible) but if you google the following, you will be able to download the full pdf: Carter_30_Halftonner_008.pdf

It's great as it describes all the original spec which would be handy for a refit.


Got it ! Tx (007 doc is cool)
To attach a file, tape your text and then "edit" full edition. u'll see attach file with a naivigator to catch it. When done, click "attach this file". Usual format is jpeg.

#327 Ramona

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:57 AM

Plenty of Australian built Carter 30's about


.http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/carter-30/117643

#328 chorus1

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:36 AM

I do not still found any news about Ydra yet.
I'm working on her half hull and would have needed some informations :

anyfriend could confirm the mast and boom were black painted ?
Does hull' colour was light grey ? (Only B&W pictures)

Tx

#329 moody frog

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

I do not still found any news about Ydra yet.
I'm working on her half hull and would have needed some informations :

anyfriend could confirm the mast and boom were black painted ?
Does hull' colour was light grey ? (Only B&W pictures)

Tx


Definitely black spars (Reckmann I would think) from the enclosed pic and light-blue (so light that it might be taken for grey) hull + white deck and roof, from a double spread (not scannable) in A &R history.

Attached Files



#330 moody frog

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:03 PM

At the same time ! I receive a newsletter with an interesting Carter one-off for sale:
Skylark

http://www.classicbo...,3AA9DS,2WLJ1,1

#331 chorus1

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:56 PM


I do not still found any news about Ydra yet.
I'm working on her half hull and would have needed some informations :

anyfriend could confirm the mast and boom were black painted ?
Does hull' colour was light grey ? (Only B&W pictures)

Tx


Definitely black spars (Reckmann I would think) from the enclosed pic and light-blue (so light that it might be taken for grey) hull + white deck and roof, from a double spread (not scannable) in A &R history.


Wouls you be kind enough to copy the link ure talkin about in A&R site ?
Tx Moody

#332 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:28 PM

Ydra. Black spars, grey hull (aluminum grey color). Back in 72, 73. Also lost track of her.
Incidently, there was a sistership of Ydra built in wood at Perth, Australia. What happened to her?

#333 moody frog

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:12 PM



I do not still found any news about Ydra yet.
I'm working on her half hull and would have needed some informations :

anyfriend could confirm the mast and boom were black painted ?
Does hull' colour was light grey ? (Only B&W pictures)

Tx


Definitely black spars (Reckmann I would think) from the enclosed pic and light-blue (so light that it might be taken for grey) hull + white deck and roof, from a double spread (not scannable) in A &R history.


Wouls you be kind enough to copy the link ure talkin about in A&R site ?
Tx Moody


It's not a website bur a big coffee-table book, mostly about how good they have been along the years, that they published several years ago.

#334 chorus1

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:44 PM




I do not still found any news about Ydra yet.
I'm working on her half hull and would have needed some informations :

anyfriend could confirm the mast and boom were black painted ?
Does hull' colour was light grey ? (Only B&W pictures)

Tx


Definitely black spars (Reckmann I would think) from the enclosed pic and light-blue (so light that it might be taken for grey) hull + white deck and roof, from a double spread (not scannable) in A &R history.


Wouls you be kind enough to copy the link ure talkin about in A&R site ?
Tx Moody


It's not a website bur a big coffee-table book, mostly about how good they have been along the years, that they published several years ago.


Ah, OK

Does we agree than Ydra antifouling was Balck too ?

#335 chorus1

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:11 PM


Going out on a limb, but didn't a Carter, German built, old 1 Tonner
win the Worlds or NAs at least one year? I thought and this is going
back to the late 70s, that it became the prototype for the Texas Carter
One Tons.



Ydra was built in Germany by A&R out of 1/4" aluminum. Imagine that. The Italian boat, for Mrs Spaccarelli was sailed by Beilken, the sailmaker.
She was on the way of winning the world One Ton in 72, when the forestay broke. She won the next year in Sardinia. But all eyes were on Ganbare.
The Texas One Ton came after, I think about 40 were built. Admitedly a cross between Ydra and Ganbare.


Ydra Reborn !!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy this gorgeous miss...

Posted Image

#336 fivestar

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:29 AM


My annual appeal!


Anybody out there, new or old, have any idea what has happened to Ydra?

We found Frigate in France and various other Carter designs have turned up. Even the original Ganabe was discovered rebuilt in italy.
Given that Ydra was constructed in aluminium, I would have thought she has a better chance of surviving than some of the cold moulded yachts.

regards - 5*


#337 IanW

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 10:52 AM

Sorry Fivestar - no sightings of Ydra, but I did spot this old girl in need of some TLC, yours for an offer on £13000!

Attached File  Carter 35_01.jpg   89.51K   42 downloads

http://www.boatshed....oat-120717.html

The ad says she was Dicks own boat & the plug for Northshore so I'm guessing this is Ragtime?

Or for £12500 you could have the production version:

http://yachts.apollo...phtml?id=195648

Attached File  Syncopation_1.jpg   54.51K   34 downloads

Way back in my formative sailing days the chap I sailed with had a Carter 3/4 ton; originally Espalier which I think was well known at the time. She became Reflection of Arne before being wrecked when her mooring dragged in a gale. Someone bought the wreck (the bottom port side was ripped out) & repaired her but not sure what happened to her after that.

I have the 77 Admirals Cup edition of Seahorse at home which has a full page ad for both the then new Ragtime (with a picture of Peppermint) and the earlier 3/4 ton which was being marketed as the Carter Concubine with a more cruiser/racer oriented fitout. Will try and dig it out & scan it if anyone is interested.

#338 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

"Dick's own boar"? I really doubt that.

#339 Jon H

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

My step-father had a Carter 30 1/2 ton (Polish built) in the early to mid 70's in Seattle, "Gus", don't know if it is still around or not.

A lot of good memories doing all the PNW races back then.

#340 Bob Perry

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:42 PM

John:
I remember GUS at Shilshole very well. Haven't seen it in a long while.

#341 Jon H

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:58 PM

Thanks, who knows where (if ?) it is still around.

I recall a 39' or 40' flush deck Carter 2 tonner "Brer Rabbit" (?) in Seattle around then that did very well,
along with the 50' "Warrior", a Chance design it think, they were always out front.

When heeled over, the letters "AMF" would appear on "Warrior"'s hull!

#342 Great White

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

My step-father had a Carter 30 1/2 ton (Polish built) in the early to mid 70's in Seattle, "Gus", don't know if it is still around or not.

A lot of good memories doing all the PNW races back then.

I remember racing against "Gus" in the 80's at Port Madison. With my 1/2 tonner, we were faster in light air, but once the wind came up, "Gus" was VERY fast.

#343 hobot

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:37 PM

What color was GUS?

#344 Jon H

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 10:21 PM

All white when new.

#345 Bob Perry

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

Rabbit is disintegrating up in Deer Harbor as far as I know.
As I recall WARRIOR had a fire and didn't recover.

"AMF" could be translated a couple of ways depending on who asked.
American Marine Foundation was one explanation.
But really it stood for "Adios Mother Fucker".

#346 Ryley

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 02:33 PM

Rabbit is disintegrating up in Deer Harbor as far as I know.
As I recall WARRIOR had a fire and didn't recover.

"AMF" could be translated a couple of ways depending on who asked.
American Marine Foundation was one explanation.
But really it stood for "Adios Mother Fucker".

Funny.. Donzo Wilkinson used to put AMF on the back of evelyns, too. Always told the new owners it stood for "Another Masterpiece Finished."

#347 hobot

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:56 PM

All white when new.

All white when new.


There was an all white Carter in Everett on the south side.

#348 chorus1

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

A new article about TINA is in process in my web site !! Enjoy :)

#349 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 02:52 PM

Attached File  Tina Maas1.jpg   318.58K   87 downloads
Original brochure for the Fiberglass Tina.

#350 chorus1

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 04:44 PM

Attached File  Tina Maas1.jpg   318.58K   87 downloads
Original brochure for the Fiberglass Tina.

Tx YM, that means that fiberglass version was only a long roof and short one were steel made ?
Bye the way i've now enough doc to try another half hull from Tina :)
Will put this plan in my article about Tina on my web site !

#351 moody frog

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:49 PM


Attached File  Tina Maas1.jpg   318.58K   87 downloads
Original brochure for the Fiberglass Tina.

Tx YM, that means that fiberglass version was only a long roof and short one were steel made ?
Bye the way i've now enough doc to try another half hull from Tina :)
Will put this plan in my article about Tina on my web site !


Not sure about that, IIRC "Variag" the Tina with most golds was GRP and orginally had a short coach-roof, before being repeatedly and heaviliy modified, to recently return to its original configuration.
I am pretty sure too that there were Steel long-roof Tinas too.

#352 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

I should have opened the brochure. It shows Standard Specification for a steel hull construction with a wooden deck. Plus equipment with a basic price of: "Hfl. 85100, including designer fees".

Attached Files



#353 Wild Oats

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:07 PM

There was an ali Carter one tonner "Waianiwa" built in NZ by McMullem & Wing for Chris Bouzaid, who one the cup in Sydney 1974??.

It had a pivoting keel with a shaft running up thru the cabin turned by a worm gear on the cabin top by a winch handle.

I will try a track down some photos.


I owned WaiAniwa from 95 to 97. Sold it to the guy I bought it off (I think he posts here) She is still very active racing in Wellington

Attached Files



#354 Richard 4073

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:45 AM



Going out on a limb, but didn't a Carter, German built, old 1 Tonner
win the Worlds or NAs at least one year? I thought and this is going
back to the late 70s, that it became the prototype for the Texas Carter
One Tons.



Ydra was built in Germany by A&R out of 1/4" aluminum. Imagine that. The Italian boat, for Mrs Spaccarelli was sailed by Beilken, the sailmaker.
She was on the way of winning the world One Ton in 72, when the forestay broke. She won the next year in Sardinia. But all eyes were on Ganbare.
The Texas One Ton came after, I think about 40 were built. Admitedly a cross between Ydra and Ganbare.


Ydra Reborn !!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy this gorgeous miss...

Posted Image


Hi Chorus, that half model looks good - I remembered I had these drawings of Ydra, including a comparison of Ydra and Wai Aniwa which was prepared by Laurie Davidson for an article that analysed the different designs of 1972 One Ton Cup (Ydra is the dashed outline I think), you might already have this information but I can scan the article if it would be of interest to you or other Carter fans.

Attached Files



#355 chorus1

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:47 AM




Going out on a limb, but didn't a Carter, German built, old 1 Tonner
win the Worlds or NAs at least one year? I thought and this is going
back to the late 70s, that it became the prototype for the Texas Carter
One Tons.



Ydra was built in Germany by A&R out of 1/4" aluminum. Imagine that. The Italian boat, for Mrs Spaccarelli was sailed by Beilken, the sailmaker.
She was on the way of winning the world One Ton in 72, when the forestay broke. She won the next year in Sardinia. But all eyes were on Ganbare.
The Texas One Ton came after, I think about 40 were built. Admitedly a cross between Ydra and Ganbare.


Ydra Reborn !!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy this gorgeous miss...

Posted Image


Hi Chorus, that half model looks good - I remembered I had these drawings of Ydra, including a comparison of Ydra and Wai Aniwa which was prepared by Laurie Davidson for an article that analysed the different designs of 1972 One Ton Cup (Ydra is the dashed outline I think), you might already have this information but I can scan the article if it would be of interest to you or other Carter fans.

Would be pleased to get this artcle for sure ! Tx Richard.

#356 fivestar

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:16 AM




Going out on a limb, but didn't a Carter, German built, old 1 Tonner
win the Worlds or NAs at least one year? I thought and this is going
back to the late 70s, that it became the prototype for the Texas Carter
One Tons.



Ydra was built in Germany by A&R out of 1/4" aluminum. Imagine that. The Italian boat, for Mrs Spaccarelli was sailed by Beilken, the sailmaker.
She was on the way of winning the world One Ton in 72, when the forestay broke. She won the next year in Sardinia. But all eyes were on Ganbare.
The Texas One Ton came after, I think about 40 were built. Admitedly a cross between Ydra and Ganbare.


Ydra Reborn !!!!!!!!!!! Enjoy this gorgeous miss...

Posted Image


Hi Chorus, that half model looks good - I remembered I had these drawings of Ydra, including a comparison of Ydra and Wai Aniwa which was prepared by Laurie Davidson for an article that analysed the different designs of 1972 One Ton Cup (Ydra is the dashed outline I think), you might already have this information but I can scan the article if it would be of interest to you or other Carter fans.

Richard, is the article in question on your RB blog? - 5*

#357 Richard 4073

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:06 AM

Hi fivestar
The article isn't on my blog, but I've scanned it in its entirety now and attached here. A good analysis of all the fleet at the 1972 OTC including Wai Aniwa and Ydra. I have a bit more information on Wai Aniwa and might write a post on her soonish. She featured in the NZ IRC and PHRF Nationals recently, good to see she is still going strong.
I found a shot of Carina III while I was at so have included that too.

Hi fivestar
The article isn't on my blog, but I've scanned it in its entirety now and attached here. A good analysis of all the fleet at the 1972 OTC including Wai Aniwa and Ydra. I have a bit more information on Wai Aniwa and might write a post on her soonish. She featured in the NZ IRC and PHRF Nationals recently, good to see she is still going strong.
I found a shot of Carina III while I was at so have included that too.

Attached Files



#358 fivestar

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 08:25 AM

Hi fivestar
The article isn't on my blog, but I've scanned it in its entirety now and attached here. A good analysis of all the fleet at the 1972 OTC including Wai Aniwa and Ydra. I have a bit more information on Wai Aniwa and might write a post on her soonish. She featured in the NZ IRC and PHRF Nationals recently, good to see she is still going strong.
I found a shot of Carina III while I was at so have included that too.

Hi fivestar
The article isn't on my blog, but I've scanned it in its entirety now and attached here. A good analysis of all the fleet at the 1972 OTC including Wai Aniwa and Ydra. I have a bit more information on Wai Aniwa and might write a post on her soonish. She featured in the NZ IRC and PHRF Nationals recently, good to see she is still going strong.
I found a shot of Carina III while I was at so have included that too.

Many thanks, most interesting.

#359 jameswilson29

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

There is Carter 36 for sale in Virginia for $23.5K: http://richmond.crai...3653657931.html

#360 halfton

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 02:53 PM

And still no post about the Carter 1/4 tonner - the Dingbat?

#361 Bob Perry

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

Halfton:
Boy that design must have come along after I left Carter's office. I'm sure Chuck Paine or YMT would know it though. YMT left before I did but he kept up on what was going on there. I did too and I don't recall that boat.
YMT had a great looking quarter tonner on his boards right after he left. I realy liked the design and I used that basic shape for my own Isander 28. Not sure I have ever admitted that in public before. Thanks YMT.

#362 halfton

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:23 PM

A prototype Dingbat did the 1/4 Worlds in Cowes in 1977. (I owned one)

#363 Bob Perry

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

I left carter's in 1973 so that might explain why I am unaware of the design. I have this vague memory that perhaps Jim Taylor was working for Carter at that time. He's a very nice guy and I'm sure he would help you if he could.

#364 moody frog

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:47 PM

Halfton:
Boy that design must have come along after I left Carter's office. I'm sure Chuck Paine or YMT would know it though. YMT left before I did but he kept up on what was going on there. I did too and I don't recall that boat.
YMT had a great looking quarter tonner on his boards right after he left. I realy liked the design and I used that basic shape for my own Isander 28. Not sure I have ever admitted that in public before. Thanks YMT.



I guess that you might be talking about the "Pantaïa" 1/4 ton which I believe means "Chimeric dream" in Provence where she was to be built,
I remember visiting their office near the Palm Beach Casino in Cannes ! run by a well-known (then) yacht-broker G. Stalpaert, hoping to sell them a few masts.
Did not get the order, but I believe few were built ans soon the light-brigade was to come.

It was a very nice looking boat in any case, should have done well in light-weather, I believe.

And Cannes in winter has always been the ideal place for a business-trip ;)

Memories !

#365 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:40 PM

Pantaia is a 1/4 Tonner designed without distortion; very fast in light air but lacked stifness to shine all around. Nicely built by Silvestro. Attached File  Pantaia Qrt. Tonner.jpg   57.89K   36 downloadsYes, the charge of the "Light Brigade " was just around with the onslaugh of many more oriented Tonners to come.

#366 Bob Perry

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

YMT:
Who drew the lines for that quarter pounder?

#367 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 05:57 PM

Attached File  pantaia.qrtr..jpg   101.78K   16 downloads
Bob.
I designed it all, but we tried to do too much in a small package to be successful. Soon the company got involved with the renew interest in rebuilding good, old large size Classics, mostly in Italy.

#368 moody frog

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:56 AM

Attached File  pantaia.qrtr..jpg   101.78K   16 downloads
Bob.
I designed it all, but we tried to do too much in a small package to be successful. Soon the company got involved with the renew interest in rebuilding good, old large size Classics, mostly in Italy.

Y_M :
I looked at the boat at the time and very much liked her lines and concept - this must have been late '75 or early '76 -
I had been racing 1/4 ton for the early '75 racing season and had been competing against a Gilles Ollier 1/4 ton, http://www.histoired.../Q Chouchen.htm ,which I delivered back from La Rochelle to Bénodet or so, with much sailing pleasure.
I.I.R.C "Pantaia" was about a foot longer, slightly wider and with less S.A.
This type of design was (to my then eyes) already uncompetitive, as a 1/4 ton, with the latest developments, but I would have fancied someone boosting one up in rating from Class VII to Class VI where she could have trounced the "Flush-Pokers" and "Armagnac" which ruled the class. But who was I ? ;) People on your enclosed newspaper clip are not easy to identify, i guess one of them is Felix, that must be shortly after he completed his ultimate work-of-art 8m CR "Diablo"

#369 chorus1

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:43 PM

We had to find out a lot of documents about one of the Carter"s Best boat : Tina , which is reported in an article on front page of my web site now.
Let me introduce to you "TINA" ..........
Hope someones will relive some old dreams :)


Posted Image

#370 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

Attached File  Tinaone.jpg   88.67K   25 downloadsAttached File  Tinatwo.jpg   448.19K   26 downloads
A couple of nice shots of the original Tina, One Ton Cup 1966 in Denmark.

#371 chorus1

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 02:39 PM

Does anyone remember about "Tina" Helisara or Cavalier seul ????

Enjoy :)Posted Image

#372 paulmitchinson1

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:12 PM

Hi there,

I am just taking on a Carter Dingbat 25 with a modified bow for racing and would really appreciate any information.drawings. specs to help with the renovation.

Thanks, Paul

#373 Cholita

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:39 PM

Dear All,

 

Im new on this form that I've jonied with pleasure and really tks for the fantastic threads and info and pice about a period of races and boats that I can not remember because I'm 38 years old .....but tks to all your post and info I try to imagine.

I read that there are no info about where is now Rabbit.

Well is here in my town ( Genoa ) is quite regularly used , and "mantained" by his owner that purchased it long time ago by the man that changed the name from Rabbit to Caligu Terzo .

The man was Mr Ludovico Fecia di Cossato a nobile man that raced quite a lot in the 70ies and 80ies here in Mediterranean sea.

Here you have some pict of Rabbit made by me for all of you few days ago.

She is in my club : Yacht Club Italiano.

 

 

 

Attached Files



#374 Bob Perry

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

Thanks Cholita. That does not look like the original cabin trunk.



#375 Cholita

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

Hi Bob , I' ll ask to the actual owner if he know something.

For sure the modification was not done by him , may be was done by the previous mentioned before.

Let me know If you need more info/details about Rabbit now or any other info about boats that are or where under the flag of Yacht Club Italiano in Genoa.

Nicolò

#376 DickDastardly

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 08:41 AM

Dear All,

 

Im new on this form that I've jonied with pleasure and really tks for the fantastic threads and info and pice about a period of races and boats that I can not remember because I'm 38 years old .....but tks to all your post and info I try to imagine.

I read that there are no info about where is now Rabbit.

Well is here in my town ( Genoa ) is quite regularly used , and "mantained" by his owner that purchased it long time ago by the man that changed the name from Rabbit to Caligu Terzo .

The man was Mr Ludovico Fecia di Cossato a nobile man that raced quite a lot in the 70ies and 80ies here in Mediterranean sea.

Here you have some pict of Rabbit made by me for all of you few days ago.

She is in my club : Yacht Club Italiano.

 

Nicolo

Grazie per il tuo contributo entusiasta, ma mi dispiace dire che hai dimenticato un rituale importante per un nuovo collaboratore di questi celebri forum.

Mostraci tette della tua ragazza!



#377 fivestar

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:28 AM

@Cholita,  i assume you go under the name cafcom in the AdV group since i read the thread on Rabbit there a couple of days ago.

Since you are a member of the Yacht Club italiano, is there a chance you could assist in discovering the current whereabouts of Ydra a Carter designed 37ft, One Ton yacht originally built for marina Spaccarelli Bulgari and skippered by admiral Augustino Straulino. She won the One Ton Cup for Italy in Sardinia in 1973.

The last race I can see she entered was the 1975 Middle Sea Race but after that no mention anywhere.

I have felt this yacht started the trend to out and out racing yachts with her clean lines and i think many people would be interested to know what became of her.

Her sail number was I 5583.

ciao Fivestar



#378 Cholita

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:04 AM

Yes is me , but I don't think that I can help you about Ydra.
Miss Spaccarelli died few years ago as far as I read and she was not member of YCI.
Her club and port base was in Tuscany close to Argentario.
I ll ask to one of the owner of Cantiere Navale Argentario , famous boat restorer located there , may be he know something about Ydra.
We still miss some pict of Chica Tica II or other Carter 37 racing in that period.
I wish to see one of Chica Tica winner of Cape to Rio.....

#379 fivestar

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 02:07 AM

@Cholita, thanks. if you don't mind i will put my post here on your AdV Rabbit thread and see if there is any reaction.

ciao



#380 Cholita

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 05:47 AM

Don't worry you can put your post also ADV.
Ciao

#381 chorus1

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:40 PM

Esprit de Rueil is back to La Trinité sur Mer, France, Persephone now :)

She won a lot in RORC when she was young, with André VIANT...

A quite nice lookin as original no ?

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#382 moody frog

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:51 PM

Esprit de Rueil is back to La Trinité sur Mer, France, Persephone now :)

She won a lot in RORC when she was young, with André VIANT...

A quite nice lookin as original no ?

 

I believe that Persephone is the former "Zeehaas", no slouch in the old days either ;)



#383 SloopJonB

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:50 PM

Esprit de Rueil is back to La Trinité sur Mer, France, Persephone now :)

She won a lot in RORC when she was young, with André VIANT...

A quite nice lookin as original no ?

 

If that boat had elliptical bronze ports instead of those rectangular ones it would be as close to perfect as it's possible to be. :)



#384 chorus1

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:52 PM

Do you mean Dick Carter had poor design with square ports ?



#385 P_Wop

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:49 AM

Yes is me , but I don't think that I can help you about Ydra.
Miss Spaccarelli died few years ago as far as I read and she was not member of YCI.
Her club and port base was in Tuscany close to Argentario.
I ll ask to one of the owner of Cantiere Navale Argentario , famous boat restorer located there , may be he know something about Ydra.
We still miss some pict of Chica Tica II or other Carter 37 racing in that period.
I wish to see one of Chica Tica winner of Cape to Rio.....

 

I believe Ydra was last seen in Porto Santo Stefano, as you say.  But she may have been moved 'round the corner' to the CNVA in Marina Cala Calera.  I'll ask my buddy there.

 

And I do have some pictures of Chica Tica in 77 when I sailed her with her wonderful owner Carlo di Mottola.  Amazing man - Italian ambassador to Costa Rica - explains the sail number CR-1.  I'll try to locate, and scan.

 

Salve.



#386 fivestar

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:06 PM

Many thanks Salve, i hope you are able to impart some good news.

Michael



#387 SloopJonB

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 05:25 AM

Do you mean Dick Carter had poor design with square ports ?

Nobody's perfect.



#388 Cholita

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:51 PM

Yes is me , but I don't think that I can help you about Ydra.
Miss Spaccarelli died few years ago as far as I read and she was not member of YCI.
Her club and port base was in Tuscany close to Argentario.
I ll ask to one of the owner of Cantiere Navale Argentario , famous boat restorer located there , may be he know something about Ydra.
We still miss some pict of Chica Tica II or other Carter 37 racing in that period.
I wish to see one of Chica Tica winner of Cape to Rio.....

 
I believe Ydra was last seen in Porto Santo Stefano, as you say.  But she may have been moved 'round the corner' to the CNVA in Marina Cala Calera.  I'll ask my buddy there.
 
And I do have some pictures of Chica Tica in 77 when I sailed her with her wonderful owner Carlo di Mottola.  Amazing man - Italian ambassador to Costa Rica - explains the sail number CR-1.  I'll try to locate, and scan.
 
Salve.


You can not immagine what pleasure will be for me if you will be able to post the mentioned pictures !!!!
Can you tell something more about Carlo di Mottola and your time spent on Chica Tica II ?
Was for races or cruise ?

Tks again

Nicolò

#389 sr33

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:33 AM

As a proud owner of a Storebro Royal 33 (design Dick Carter/JH Lindbolm) I´d like to share this link to an old broschure. The Royal 33 is a redesign of Carter 33.

Link to broschure here.

/rolf

 

storebroroyal33.png



#390 carles

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 01:47 PM

Hello,

Last year I bought "Cavalier Seul", a Tina launched in 1968 with short roof and GRP hull. We have refurbished her and now she is ready to sail!!

I'm looking for informations about her, pictures and so on...

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  • Attached File  40.JPG   218.52K   63 downloads
  • Attached File  41.JPG   124.17K   66 downloads


#391 moody frog

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hello,

Last year I bought "Cavalier Seul", a Tina launched in 1968 with short roof and GRP hull. We have refurbished her and now she is ready to sail!!

I'm looking for informations about her, pictures and so on...

 

Congratulations !

Here is what I remember.

"Cavalier Seul" was a regular RORC competitor in the late 60s and a respected one, if not the best of the numerous Tinas around, probably N°2 or 3 French Tina.

She was 11thClass III in the 69' Fastnet, 15th in '71. That race is the only one for which I have access to results, but I tend to remember pretty good placings in the early season races (Lyme Bay ?)

 

I.I.R.C she was named with a pun on her owner's name: Mr Paul-Cavallier from a family of industrialists in Nancy, main shareholders of Pont-A-Mousson foundries which had not yet merged with Saint-Gobain at the time.



#392 Laser1

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:13 PM

Esprit de Rueil is back to La Trinité sur Mer, France, Persephone now :)

She won a lot in RORC when she was young, with André VIANT...

A quite nice lookin as original no ?

As Moody rightly pointed out 'Persephone' is ex 'Zeehaas'. Owned by my dad and the boat I was raised on.  She was built by Albert Goudriaan as 'Gazela' in GRP.  Since Frans Maas in Breskens did not do GRP yet in those days the hull was built by the 'Oranje werf' in Amsterdam and finished by Frans Maas. 

 

Albert took a penalty on hull displacement, spi-pole length to rate bottom of RORC class 2 rather than top of class 3. That's why she displaces the best part of 7.5 tonnes with an inch thick solid GRP on the waterline. 

 

With a low freeboard we did not go up waves.....we went through them.

 

Oh the stories of wagers with the French Tina's prior to Fastnet Races for a box of wine or bottles of champage with 'Variag', Cavailler Seul, Esprit de Reuil.  Names that come to me as if I heard them yesterday.

 

I can remember stories that mid 70's 'Variag' was stripped out, holes drilled in bulkheads and all other sorts of weight saving 'mutilations'.  And then the rating issues under IOR followed.

 

We had two more Tina's in Breskens : 'Guldene Draecke' - steel - long cabin top

and another one 'Zuna'  also steel hull - long cabin top.

 

Wish dad would have never ever sold the boat !!!!

 

edit: btw I still refer to the guy as the ....'steel sheet' ...... showing my age now :wacko:



#393 Laser1

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

Hello,

Last year I bought "Cavalier Seul", a Tina launched in 1968 with short roof and GRP hull. We have refurbished her and now she is ready to sail!!

I'm looking for informations about her, pictures and so on...

She's looking fantastic, well done !!



#394 Laser1

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 07:24 PM

We had to find out a lot of documents about one of the Carter"s Best boat : Tina , which is reported in an article on front page of my web site now.
Let me introduce to you "TINA" ..........
Hope someones will relive some old dreams :)


Tina%20Roof%20Court%20Copyright.jpg

I wish you hadn't posted that pic.   Pure boat/design porn :)



#395 chorus1

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:03 PM

We had to find out a lot of documents about one of the Carter"s Best boat : Tina , which is reported in an article on front page of my web site now.
Let me introduce to you "TINA" ..........
Hope someones will relive some old dreams :)


Tina%20Roof%20Court%20Copyright.jpg

I wish you hadn't posted that pic.   Pure boat/design porn :)

Hey Laser ! Tx a lot for ure interesting comments.

I stay at ure proposal with Carle to work on any half hull on canvas 100x50 (About 150€ at delivery) of ure father's Tina, customized, of course :)



#396 chorus1

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 08:21 AM

Laser, would be nice to have a Tina Web site on the net :)

If no running yet, i'm ready to  keep a part of mine (http://www.demi-coques.fr) to do so, in English.

So that every owner of Tina's boat could share stories, photos about their boats !

Fisrt of all, would be great to get the mail address of the owners to get their opinion ?



#397 moody frog

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 09:11 AM

Esprit de Rueil is back to La Trinité sur Mer, France, Persephone now :)

She won a lot in RORC when she was young, with André VIANT...

A quite nice lookin as original no ?

As Moody rightly pointed out 'Persephone' is ex 'Zeehaas'. Owned by my dad and the boat I was raised on.  She was built by Albert Goudriaan as 'Gazela' in GRP.  Since Frans Maas in Breskens did not do GRP yet in those days the hull was built by the 'Oranje werf' in Amsterdam and finished by Frans Maas. 

 

Albert took a penalty on hull displacement, spi-pole length to rate bottom of RORC class 2 rather than top of class 3. That's why she displaces the best part of 7.5 tonnes with an inch thick solid GRP on the waterline. 

 

With a low freeboard we did not go up waves.....we went through them.

 

Oh the stories of wagers with the French Tina's prior to Fastnet Races for a box of wine or bottles of champage with 'Variag', Cavailler Seul, Esprit de Reuil.  Names that come to me as if I heard them yesterday.

 

I can remember stories that mid 70's 'Variag' was stripped out, holes drilled in bulkheads and all other sorts of weight saving 'mutilations'.  And then the rating issues under IOR followed.

 

We had two more Tina's in Breskens : 'Guldene Draecke' - steel - long cabin top

and another one 'Zuna'  also steel hull - long cabin top.

 

Wish dad would have never ever sold the boat !!!!

 

edit: btw I still refer to the guy as the ....'steel sheet' ...... showing my age now :wacko:

 

Hi Laser 1 ;)

 

Hard to remember where to find a pic of "Variag" in modified guise.

 

The owner finding that his sons were in age to lead a racing crew, decided for hard surgery to make her a light weight Tina.

The original GRP hull was kept except that the transom was cut and lightened.

Everything above was taken off and an alumin(i)um deck fitted, new deck fittings and a Stearn 3 spreaders rigging package fitted. Inside she was fully emptied.

 

She got ready for the '77 season and started with a Fastnet win in class III, she was also shipped to Sydney where she shined too in the Sydney Hobart race.

 

I raced the '78 Middle Sea Race and here she was again doing well although she did not win.

 

I think that, then after the owner had achieved his dreams of former racing crew.

 

Incidentally that owner Marc Henrion was a character too, a high-society gentleman, former banker and businessman, he happened to be at the time of his wins the brother-in-law of the French head-of-state. Not that he ever played that card, though.

 

Kind of 5 to 10 years ago she was purchased in that condition and rebuilt to original condition to join in the Tina classic races.



#398 Laser1

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

Laser, would be nice to have a Tina Web site on the net :)

If no running yet, i'm ready to  keep a part of mine (http://www.demi-coques.fr) to do so, in English.

So that every owner of Tina's boat could share stories, photos about their boats !

Fisrt of all, would be great to get the mail address of the owners to get their opinion ?

A couple of years ago (could be 10) my dad was invited by the new owner of 'Zeehaas' to join him in Lorient/LaTrinite??? for the inaugural Tina's Cup.

 

Don't know how many they managed to round up buy they had quite a few.

 

From memory his name is Mr. Lambert.  He competed in Fastnet 2 years ago.  I think he's part of a group of guys that want to

buy and preserve/race/cruise Tina's in the Lorient area.

 

I did Fastnet with the mighty Class 40 'Dragon' and after the finish I went over and had a few beers with them.  It was good to be on board again.

 

I'm sure you can look him up in France and get in touch with him.

 

--------------

 

On a different note : Found another Tina in the grey matter - 'JORAN' - short cabin top - red hull.

 

Owned at the time by a Swiss guy who also put a bigger rig on and cut the stern off just behind the cockpit and put a transom hung rudder on iirc.

 

As a nipper I can remember playing in the junk yard at Frans Maas' (which I wasn't allowed in with my mates) and found it to be a very good hole to hide in :-)

 

Last I know it was sold into Holland (Muiden, Ysselmeer area) and probably still there.



#399 Laser1

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:41 AM

Hey Laser ! Tx a lot for ure interesting comments.

 

I stay at ure proposal with Carle to work on any half hull on canvas 100x50 (About 150€ at delivery) of ure father's Tina, customized, of course :)

 

I help you to round up all the Tina's we know of ........and you knock that price down a bit :rolleyes:  

 

I'm sure we can come to an 'agreable' agreement......... of course !!



#400 chorus1

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:41 AM


Hey Laser ! Tx a lot for ure interesting comments.
 
I stay at ure proposal with Carle to work on any half hull on canvas 100x50 (About 150 at delivery) of ure father's Tina, customized, of course :)

 
I help you to round up all the Tina's we know of ........and you knock that price down a bit :rolleyes:  
 
I'm sure we can come to an 'agreable' agreement......... of course !!





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